Let me know how much and I will get you a check.

Thanks;

Karla Peterson

* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. R. Reynolds" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) SAIL FEST 04 Date: 02 Jul 2004 17:36:07 -0700 (PDT) --0-1918625509-1088814967=:78530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii happy friday dave, please - 2 tshirts - 1 xxl & 1 l - 2 adult chicken dinners . let me know if there is anything we can do to help out. Dave Shearer wrote: Hey All SAIL FEST 04 is just around the corner and we have a great event planned. Go to www.GSLYC.org to find a link to the CARDBOARD BOAT RACE. Go to that same site to find more information about SAIL FEST 04. T SHIRT RESERVATIONS: T shirts go fast. Reserve your shirts now by email. Just email me at dshearer@gslyc.org and request your size and quantities. Sizes are XXL, XL, L, M, SM, Jr DINNER RESERVATIONS: although reservations are not necessary I am trying to get a count on how many meals to plan on. The menu is as follows. T-bone steak or Chicken Potato salad, Macaroni salad, Green Salad Dinner Rolls and probably corn on the cob. Soda pop will also be included. There will be Adult meals and Jr meals. Prices will be determined within the next couple days. For those needing special meals such as a vegi plate or fish please email me at dshearer@gslyc.org and we will do our best to accomodate. Please let me know how many meals to reserve and what main course you will like and we will do our best to accomodate. Thank you Dave Shearer dshearer@gslyc.org 801-261-0300 * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). J. R. Reynolds Cell 801-898-0270 stressing & ailing??? Time to go Sailing Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! --0-1918625509-1088814967=:78530 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

happy friday dave,

please - 2 tshirts - 1 xxl & 1 l - 2 adult chicken dinners . let me know if there is anything we can do to help out.

Dave Shearer <dshearer@mail.gslyc.org> wrote:

Hey All

SAIL FEST 04 is just around the corner and we have a great event
planned.

Go to www.GSLYC.org to find a link to the CARDBOARD BOAT RACE.

Go to that same site to find more information about SAIL FEST 04.

T SHIRT RESERVATIONS:
T shirts go fast. Reserve your shirts now by email. Just email me
at dshearer@gslyc.org and request your size and quantities. Sizes
are XXL, XL, L, M, SM, Jr

DINNER RESERVATIONS:
although reservations are not necessary I am trying to get a count
on how many meals to plan on. The menu is as follows.

T-bone steak or Chicken
Potato salad, Macaroni salad, Green Salad
Dinner Rolls
and probably corn on the cob.
Soda pop will also be included.

There will be Adult meals and Jr meals. Prices will be determined
within the next couple days.

For those needing special meals such as a vegi plate or fish
please email me at dshearer@gslyc.org and we will do our best to
accomodate.

Please let me know how many meals to reserve and what main course
you will like and we will do our best to accomodate.

Thank you
Dave Shearer
dshearer@gslyc.org
801-261-0300

* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board:
* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing
* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with
* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).

J. R. Reynolds
Cell 801-898-0270
stressing & ailing??? Time to go Sailing

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! --0-1918625509-1088814967=:78530-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: (utah-sailing) Crane Day at GSL Date: 07 Jul 2004 13:31:10 -0600 Hey all. Planning on having a crane day on Friday, July 16th at the Great Salt Lake Marina. If you are interested please let me know So I can plan on what size crane to bring out. This is crucial now that the reach has become so far. You can either email me or call me at 801-261-0300 Thanks Dave Shearer * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kittel, H. James @ CSW-SLC" Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Crane Day at GSL Date: 07 Jul 2004 13:40:23 -0600 Dave, I have a swing keel (23' Sunflower) and have been wondering how long the ramp will remain usable. It looks to be plenty deep now and I am thinking the water could drop another foot and still be usable. Any ideas? Thanks, Jim Kittel C-14 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 1:31 PM Hey all. Planning on having a crane day on Friday, July 16th at the Great Salt Lake Marina. If you are interested please let me know So I can plan on what size crane to bring out. This is crucial now that the reach has become so far. You can either email me or call me at 801-261-0300 Thanks Dave Shearer * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Crane Day at GSL Date: 07 Jul 2004 14:18:22 -0600 Jim The ramp is only accessable to swing keel or very shallow draft boats now. There is only five feet of depth before you run out of ramp and hit the mud. Given how hot it is going to get here soom the ramp may be unusable come September or October. Dave ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Dave, >I have a swing keel (23' Sunflower) and have been wondering how long the >ramp will remain usable. It looks to be plenty deep now and I am thinking >the water could drop another foot and still be usable. Any ideas? >Thanks, >Jim Kittel >C-14 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dave Shearer [mailto:dshearer@mail.gslyc.org] >Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 1:31 PM >To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Subject: (utah-sailing) Crane Day at GSL > > >Hey all. > > >Planning on having a crane day on Friday, July 16th at the Great >Salt Lake Marina. If you are interested please let me know So I >can plan on what size crane to bring out. This is crucial now >that the reach has become so far. > >You can either email me or call me at 801-261-0300 > > > >Thanks >Dave Shearer > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kittel, H. James @ CSW-SLC" Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Crane Day at GSL Date: 07 Jul 2004 14:42:04 -0600 Thanks, good info, Jim -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 2:18 PM Jim The ramp is only accessable to swing keel or very shallow draft boats now. There is only five feet of depth before you run out of ramp and hit the mud. Given how hot it is going to get here soom the ramp may be unusable come September or October. Dave ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Dave, >I have a swing keel (23' Sunflower) and have been wondering how long the >ramp will remain usable. It looks to be plenty deep now and I am thinking >the water could drop another foot and still be usable. Any ideas? >Thanks, >Jim Kittel >C-14 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dave Shearer [mailto:dshearer@mail.gslyc.org] >Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 1:31 PM >To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Subject: (utah-sailing) Crane Day at GSL > > >Hey all. > > >Planning on having a crane day on Friday, July 16th at the Great >Salt Lake Marina. If you are interested please let me know So I >can plan on what size crane to bring out. This is crucial now >that the reach has become so far. > >You can either email me or call me at 801-261-0300 > > > >Thanks >Dave Shearer > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: (utah-sailing) SAIL FEST 04 Date: 08 Jul 2004 12:13:49 -0600 Hey all SAIL FEST 04 is just around the corner. Many great activities are planned for this event. Get more information from the www.gslyc.org web site. SAIL FEST 04 is open to all participants regardless of club affiliation. PRE ORDER BARGAINS. PRE-ORDERED T-SHIRTS: pre ordered sail fest t-shirts are only $8.95 this year. T-shirts sold at SAIL FEST 04 will be $11.00 SO PLEASE PRE-ORDER to save mony. To pre-order just call me at 801-261-0300 or email me at dshearer@gslyc.org Include sizes and quantities. Sizes are xxl, xl, l, m, and small. We have a very limited supply of xxl. PRE-ORDERED MEALS: pre-ordered steak (T-Bones) or Chicken dinners are $10.00 for adults and $5.00 for children. follow the above information to pre-order meals. You will receive a confirmation on your pre-orders by email along with information on how to make out your check and where to send it. REMEMBER; Breakfasts are free on both days so come on out and enjoy the whole weekend. Watching the fireworks from all over the valley from on the water can be quite nice. This will happen Saturday night on the 24th. If I can be of any further help please email me or call me. Thank you Dave Shearer 801-261-0300 dshearer@gslyc.org * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "nggeorge@juno.com" Subject: (utah-sailing) International Rules for anchoring Date: 08 Jul 2004 19:23:00 GMT When anchoring at Catalina Island last year I got into a discussion with the owner of a anchored boat about being anchored within the radius of her rode and boat. She cited the 'International Rules'. While I can understand the liability issues does anyone know of international rules or examples of citations and rule enforcement? Since Catalina is part of California I don't think it is in international waters but someday and in some other boat I may go beyond my current limitations. Newell * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bryant Pratt" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) International Rules for anchoring Date: 08 Jul 2004 14:54:13 -0600 Newell, As far as I can tell from a search of the International Rules of the Road (COLREGS) at http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/boating/colregs.html, there is no prescription for how close to another boat you my anchor. However, prudence (and geometry) would say that one shouldn't anchor within the swinging radius of another anchored vessel (assuming both are free to swing). That radius would depend on the depth of the water, the size of the boat and its anchor line scope (usually 7-10 times the depth). If one stays at or outside of the swing radius of the already anchored vessel, and uses approximately the same scope, there shouldn't be any problem with contacting the other boat or fouling its rode. If you can't determine the other boat's swing radius, stay well away. Bryant Pratt TRBS C-30 #5755 "Narragansett" Great Salt Lake, Utah ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 1:23 PM > > When anchoring at Catalina Island last year I got into a discussion with the owner of a anchored boat about being anchored within the radius of her rode and boat. She cited the 'International Rules'. While I can understand the liability issues does anyone know of international rules or examples of citations and rule enforcement? > > Since Catalina is part of California I don't think it is in international waters but someday and in some other boat I may go beyond my current limitations. > > > Newell * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sail.ray@att.net Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) International Rules for anchoring Date: 09 Jul 2004 13:39:59 +0000 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19600_1089380399_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have some 30 years of anchoring experience at the Catalina Island venues, and I still can't be certain as to what the rules are, local, or international. First you must understand that there is no body of authority at the venue with the expertise to decide who is at fault until you go the full monty and have a maritime court decide, or your insurance company. A Deputy Sheriff from Ventura is no maritime lawyer, or master mariner. 1# Common sense seems to be the best rule. 2# When you arrive at an anchorage and 4 boats are anchored bow and stern, you follow the example and anchor clear of them. At Little Harbor 6 boats max can anchor within 15 feet, beam to beam, and there is no problem. But if one arrival decides to anchor bow only, then that arrival is in violation of common sense rule #2. Rule #3 is that you follow the protocal of the other boat's anchor methods when you arrive. This is hard to do because sometimes just weeks before the common anchor method was the opposite of this day's. But the common sense of all of this is that who ever got there first gets to chose the method, regardless of your opinion. What really grates on these events is that some early arrival simply has no clue as to how to anchor, or simply owns only one anchor. This results in one idiot shouting for you to anchor clear when they have no idea why their method is the proper one. I have been dragged out to sea by late arrivals who arrive and cast out some undisclosed amount of chain and rode then leave the boat unattended, immediately headed to the bar. The biggest violators are small power boats who zip over from the mainland for a few drinks. Their staff just head for shore pretending to themselves that they are safely anchored once the anchor hits bottom. I have had good sized sail boats drop anchor directly over my anchor, set an unsafe short scope, then proceed to drag my anchor with their dragging anchor and eventualy getting my rode caught up in their propeller. THEN deciding to motor forward to reset their anchor and in doing so entangle my rode into their prop! This is not a lot of fun at 11o'clock at night. The amount of chain, the weight of the anchor, and the scope of rode determines the arc of the swing. Then adjust to wind and current and you have a pretty complex number of choices that must be made. Some boats "sail" on their anchor with the current. The have the capacity to sail with the water current as it passes their keel, moving about the anchorage like ghost ships from one extreme of their rode to the other. Others barely move, especially if they have an all chain rode. There is an achonym for these events: "Anchor Rage". Cheers, Ray Tostado BASELINE NP 41S -------------- Original message from "nggeorge@juno.com" : -------------- > > When anchoring at Catalina Island last year I got into a discussion with the > owner of a anchored boat about being anchored within the radius of her rode and > boat. She cited the 'International Rules'. While I can understand the > liability issues does anyone know of international rules or examples of > citations and rule enforcement? > > Since Catalina is part of California I don't think it is in international waters > but someday and in some other boat I may go beyond my current limitations. > > > Newell > > > > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: > * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19600_1089380399_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I have some 30 years of anchoring experience at the Catalina Island venues, and I still can't be certain as to what the rules are, local, or international.

First you must understand that there is no body of authority at the venue with the expertise to decide who is at fault until you go the full monty and have a maritime court decide, or your insurance company. A Deputy Sheriff from Ventura is no maritime lawyer, or master mariner.

1# Common sense seems to be the best rule.

2# When you arrive at an anchorage and 4 boats are anchored bow and stern, you follow the example and anchor clear of them. At Little Harbor 6 boats max can anchor within 15 feet, beam to beam, and there is no problem. But if one arrival decides to anchor bow only, then that arrival is in violation of common sense rule #2.

Rule #3 is that you follow the protocal of the other boat's anchor methods when you arrive. This is hard to do because sometimes just weeks before the common anchor method was the opposite of this day's. But the common sense of all of this is that who ever got there first gets to chose the method, regardless of your opinion. What really grates on these events is that some early arrival simply has no clue as to how to anchor, or simply owns only one anchor. This results in one idiot shouting for you to anchor clear when they have no idea why their method is the proper one.

I have been dragged out to sea by late arrivals who arrive and cast out some undisclosed amount of chain and rode then leave the boat unattended, immediately headed to the bar. The biggest violators are small power boats who zip over from the mainland for a few drinks. Their staff just head for shore pretending to themselves that they are safely anchored once the anchor hits bottom.

I have had good sized sail boats drop anchor directly over my anchor, set an unsafe short scope, then proceed to drag my anchor with their dragging anchor and eventualy getting my rode caught up in their propeller. THEN deciding to motor forward to reset their anchor and in doing so entangle my rode into their prop! This is not a lot of fun at 11o'clock at night.

The amount of chain, the weight of the anchor, and the scope of rode determines the arc of the swing. Then adjust to wind and current and you have a pretty complex number of choices that must be made. Some boats "sail" on their anchor with the current. The have the capacity to sail with the water current as it passes their keel, moving about the anchorage like ghost ships from one extreme of their rode to the other. Others barely move, especially if they have an all chain rode.

There is an achonym for these events: "Anchor Rage".

Cheers,

Ray Tostado

BASELINE

NP 41S

-------------- Original message from "nggeorge@juno.com" : --------------
>
> When anchoring at Catalina Island last year I got into a discussion with the
> owner of a anchored boat about being anchored within the radius of her rode and
> boat. She cited the 'International Rules'. While I can understand the
> liability issues does anyone know of international rules or examples of
> citations and rule enforcement?
>
> Since Catalina is part of California I don't think it is in international waters
> but someday and in some other boat I may go beyond my current limitations.
>
>
> Newell
>
>
>
>
> * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board:
> * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing
> * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with
> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).
>

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19600_1089380399_0-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Harper Subject: (utah-sailing) Solo Endurance Date: 15 Jul 2004 08:13:41 -0600 Somewhat late notice for all those who intend to compete. The web site has the incorrect times posted for the skippers' meeting and start for the Solo Endurance Cup. The skippers' meeting is at 8:30 AM and the Start will be at 10:00 AM Saturday. The course will be start at C round the buoy off Promontory Point to port and finish at C. Breck Jensen will be the committee boat for the start the race and Dave Shearer will be the committee boat for the finish. See you all there. -- Don't be good... HAVE LOTS OF FUN! Robert Harper * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Harper Subject: (utah-sailing) Solo Endurance Date: 17 Jul 2004 21:54:51 -0600 Because of the forecast of large thunderstorms and a desire to live another day, the competitors decided to shorten the course from the normal 60 miles to 25. The day started rather light from the West and switching to the East, favoring the Ultimate 20 with the kite. Later the wind freshened from the North at about 10 - 15. Just as the last boats were finishing, the expected storm hit with a vengeance. Zendo dropped out of the race so that the committee boat could get in before the storm and it hit just as them pulled into the slip. Zendo unfortunately was caught in the channel and was later pulled in by the Rescue One. The standings are as follows: PLACE BOAT UNCORRECTED CORRECTED 1 Euphoria 6:33:02 6:31:04 2 Wasabi 6:50:30 7:14:25 3 Latitude 8:01:19 7:34:57 4 Zendo DNF Congratulations to those who competed. Long may you live. -- Don't be good... HAVE LOTS OF FUN! Robert Harper * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heidisolstad@netscape.net (Heidi ) Subject: (utah-sailing) Ode to Highwire Date: 18 Jul 2004 16:41:48 -0400 Ode to Highwire farewell my lassie our bobbysocker ride you served so many well resplendent stories we can tell today it's dry dock don't cry, it's your heart I still confide Highwire had to come out. Hull #1 Capri 30. A sad weekend for sailng at our house. Now we shall tend to her needs and our tentative plans should they work out will be to move her to Seattle and dry dock her there at Shilshole marina. But for now, she is not alone as she has a BIG buddy for compnay right now lying next to Shockwave. Good luck to you all with your lives and your boats. :) Heidi __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel Merriman" Subject: (utah-sailing) re: Solo Endurance Date: 19 Jul 2004 09:45:41 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C46D75.27B8CC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excerpt from the 2004 GSLYC Sailing Instructions revised 04/16/04. Special Trophy Races Endurance Solo Cup: Offshore format. Start and finish in the vicinity of = J or S mark. Race should be more than 30 nautical miles and not more = than 65 nautical miles. Scoring is calculated using PHRF Time on Time = calculation. ----- Original Message -----=20 Sailing" Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:54 PM > Because of the forecast of large thunderstorms and a desire to live = another day,=20 > the competitors decided to shorten the course from the normal 60 miles = to 25.=20 > The day started rather light from the West and switching to the East, = favoring=20 > the Ultimate 20 with the kite. Later the wind freshened from the North = at about=20 > 10 - 15. Just as the last boats were finishing, the expected storm hit = with a=20 > vengeance. Zendo dropped out of the race so that the committee boat = could get in=20 > before the storm and it hit just as them pulled into the slip. Zendo=20 > unfortunately was caught in the channel and was later pulled in by the = Rescue One. >=20 > The standings are as follows: >=20 > PLACE BOAT UNCORRECTED CORRECTED > ------------------------------------------------------------ > 1 Euphoria 6:33:02 6:31:04 > 2 Wasabi 6:50:30 7:14:25 > 3 Latitude 8:01:19 7:34:57 > 4 Zendo DNF >=20 > Congratulations to those who competed. Long may you live. >=20 > --=20 > Don't be good... > HAVE LOTS OF FUN! > Robert Harper ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C46D75.27B8CC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Excerpt from the 2004 GSLYC Sailing Instructions revised = 04/16/04.

Special Trophy Races

Endurance Solo Cup: Offshore format. Start and finish in the = vicinity of J=20 or S mark. Race should be more than 30 = nautical miles=20 and not more than 65 nautical miles. Scoring = is=20 calculated using PHRF Time on Time calculation.

----- Original Message -----=20

From: "Robert Harper" <rharper@xmission.com>

To: "Great Salt Lake Yacht Club" <gslyc@mailman.xmission.com= >;=20 "Utah Sailing" <utah-sailing@lists.xmissi= on.com>

Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:54 PM

Subject: [GSLYC] Solo Endurance

> Because of the forecast of large thunderstorms and a = desire=20 to live another day,
> the competitors decided to shorten the = course from=20 the normal 60 miles to 25.
> The day started rather light from = the West=20 and switching to the East, favoring
> the Ultimate 20 with the = kite.=20 Later the wind freshened from the North at about
> 10 - 15. Just = as the=20 last boats were finishing, the expected storm hit with a
> = vengeance.=20 Zendo dropped out of the race so that the committee boat could get in =
>=20 before the storm and it hit just as them pulled into the slip. Zendo =
>=20 unfortunately was caught in the channel and was later pulled in by the = Rescue=20 One.
>
> The standings are as follows:
>
>=20 PLACE  =20 BOAT           &nb= sp;           =20 UNCORRECTED    CORRECTED
>=20 1      =20 Euphoria           = ;        =20 6:33:02        6:31:04
>=20 2      =20 Wasabi           &= nbsp;         =20 6:50:30        7:14:25
>=20 3      =20 Latitude           = ;        =20 8:01:19        7:34:57
>=20 4      =20 Zendo           &n= bsp;          =20 DNF
>
> Congratulations to those who competed. Long may you = live.
>
> --
> Don't be good...
> HAVE LOTS OF = FUN!
> Robert Harper

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C46D75.27B8CC00-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: (utah-sailing) SAIL FEST 04 Date: 19 Jul 2004 18:13:47 -0600 Hey All It's Here! SAIL FEST 04 starts this week! Check out the GSLYC.org web site and click on "SAIL FEST" for new detailed information and schedule. Opening event is this Wednesday evening to race for the "Crystal Cup" Opening ceremonies, barbecue and all will be this Friday Hope to see you all there. Dave Shearer * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: (utah-sailing) Sail Fest Volunteers Date: 20 Jul 2004 11:22:54 -0600 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Hello Everyone! This is just a friendly note to those of you who wish to participate in Sailfest opening ceremonies. (to include anyone that has not yet volunteered). There will be an orientation and short practice following the race results Wednesday evening. If, for some reason out of our control, we do not race, we WILL meet in the club house to practice for a little bit. I will have music and lyrics for you to practice your lip-sync before Friday. If it is at all possible, please be at the marina (in costume) by five Friday evening for a quick run-through. Thank you in advance for having some fun together............... Melissa * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel Merriman" Subject: (utah-sailing) re: Solo Endurance Date: 21 Jul 2004 22:17:29 -0600 Judging from the lack of responses I guess my first email was too vague. My question is: Since this race did not meet the GSLYC 2004 Sailing Instructions requirements can it be considered an official race? This concerns me for a number of reasons. Are the rules not there for a reason? How would the founders of this race feel about their race being changed? I am pretty sure how two of them would feel since I asked their opinions when this rule was written while I was Race Committee Chairman. They felt that this should be a grueling race in any weather conditions simulating an Around the World Alone Race as best could be simulated on the GSL. That was why it was originally scheduled for Spring racing when the weather can be its worst. The third person has since changed his mind and was the one that changed the date so I am unsure of his feelings. I also know that Ron Chandler, "Encore", the winner of the inaugural race, was very proud of winning in the very harsh conditions that forced many other boats to drop out that year. How will he feel about the race being made much simpler and sharing his name on the trophy with this winner? Will the Reynolds Cup be shortened when the weather looks bad the next time? I have been in a couple of these that I wished at the time would have been shortened but never would have considered it. What about the racers that may have participated in the race had they known it was not going to be as advertised? Can you change a race at the Skippers meeting and be fair to the people not there? When I was Race Committee Chairman I was criticized by an individual for the way I was conducting the race program. His advice for making decisions was to first follow the rules, lacking any rule follow tradition, and if neither of these exist use reason. There was a rule and tradition that were not followed in this case. I am sure that I will be accused of being too critical. I am not alone in these concerns and I'm sure that there are others that I have not heard from. Many people were very critical of me when I was the Chairman because of the changes that were made but I tried to address everyone's concerns rather than ignoring them. I have also noticed that the changes made while I was Chairman, with a few exceptions, are still being used. Dan Merriman formerly "AirBoss" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 9:45 AM Excerpt from the 2004 GSLYC Sailing Instructions revised 04/16/04. Special Trophy Races Endurance Solo Cup: Offshore format. Start and finish in the vicinity of J or S mark. Race should be more than 30 nautical miles and not more than 65 nautical miles. Scoring is calculated using PHRF Time on Time calculation. ----- Original Message ----- Sailing" Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:54 PM > Because of the forecast of large thunderstorms and a desire to live another day, > the competitors decided to shorten the course from the normal 60 miles to 25. > The day started rather light from the West and switching to the East, favoring > the Ultimate 20 with the kite. Later the wind freshened from the North at about > 10 - 15. Just as the last boats were finishing, the expected storm hit with a > vengeance. Zendo dropped out of the race so that the committee boat could get in > before the storm and it hit just as them pulled into the slip. Zendo > unfortunately was caught in the channel and was later pulled in by the Rescue One. > > The standings are as follows: > > PLACE BOAT UNCORRECTED CORRECTED > ------------------------------------------------------------ > 1 Euphoria 6:33:02 6:31:04 > 2 Wasabi 6:50:30 7:14:25 > 3 Latitude 8:01:19 7:34:57 > 4 Zendo DNF > > Congratulations to those who competed. Long may you live. > > -- > Don't be good... > HAVE LOTS OF FUN! > Robert Harper * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert and Debra Bushek Subject: (utah-sailing) Re: [GSLYC] re: Solo Endurance Date: 22 Jul 2004 05:19:26 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090900060602060207030502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is a shame that all individuals with real concerns over this matter can no longer make an official protest. Daniel Merriman wrote: >Judging from the lack of responses I guess my first email was too vague. My >question is: Since this race did not meet the GSLYC 2004 Sailing >Instructions requirements can it be considered an official race? This >concerns me for a number of reasons. Are the rules not there for a reason? >How would the founders of this race feel about their race being changed? I >am pretty sure how two of them would feel since I asked their opinions when >this rule was written while I was Race Committee Chairman. They felt that >this should be a grueling race in any weather conditions simulating an >Around the World Alone Race as best could be simulated on the GSL. That was >why it was originally scheduled for Spring racing when the weather can be >its worst. The third person has since changed his mind and was the one that >changed the date so I am unsure of his feelings. I also know that Ron >Chandler, "Encore", the winner of the inaugural race, was very proud of >winning in the very harsh conditions that forced many other boats to drop >out that year. How will he feel about the race being made much simpler and >sharing his name on the trophy with this winner? Will the Reynolds Cup be >shortened when the weather looks bad the next time? I have been in a couple >of these that I wished at the time would have been shortened but never would >have considered it. What about the racers that may have participated in the >race had they known it was not going to be as advertised? Can you change a >race at the Skippers meeting and be fair to the people not there? > >When I was Race Committee Chairman I was criticized by an individual for the >way I was conducting the race program. His advice for making decisions was >to first follow the rules, lacking any rule follow tradition, and if neither >of these exist use reason. There was a rule and tradition that were not >followed in this case. > >I am sure that I will be accused of being too critical. I am not alone in >these concerns and I'm sure that there are others that I have not heard >from. Many people were very critical of me when I was the Chairman because >of the changes that were made but I tried to address everyone's concerns >rather than ignoring them. I have also noticed that the changes made while I >was Chairman, with a few exceptions, are still being used. > >Dan Merriman >formerly "AirBoss" > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Daniel Merriman >To: utah sailing ; GSLYC list > >Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 9:45 AM >Subject: (utah-sailing) re: Solo Endurance > >Excerpt from the 2004 GSLYC Sailing Instructions revised 04/16/04. > >Special Trophy Races >Endurance Solo Cup: Offshore format. Start and finish in the vicinity of J >or S mark. Race should be more than 30 nautical miles and not more than 65 >nautical miles. Scoring is calculated using PHRF Time on Time calculation. > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Harper" >To: "Great Salt Lake Yacht Club" ; "Utah >Sailing" >Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:54 PM >Subject: [GSLYC] Solo Endurance > > > >>Because of the forecast of large thunderstorms and a desire to live >> >> >another day, > > >>the competitors decided to shorten the course from the normal 60 miles to >> >> >25. > > >>The day started rather light from the West and switching to the East, >> >> >favoring > > >>the Ultimate 20 with the kite. Later the wind freshened from the North at >> >> >about > > >>10 - 15. Just as the last boats were finishing, the expected storm hit >> >> >with a > > >>vengeance. Zendo dropped out of the race so that the committee boat could >> >> >get in > > >>before the storm and it hit just as them pulled into the slip. Zendo >>unfortunately was caught in the channel and was later pulled in by the >> >> >Rescue One. > > >>The standings are as follows: >> >>PLACE BOAT UNCORRECTED CORRECTED >>------------------------------------------------------------ >>1 Euphoria 6:33:02 6:31:04 >>2 Wasabi 6:50:30 7:14:25 >>3 Latitude 8:01:19 7:34:57 >>4 Zendo DNF >> >>Congratulations to those who competed. Long may you live. >> >>-- >>Don't be good... >>HAVE LOTS OF FUN! >>Robert Harper >> >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >GSLYC mailing list >GSLYC@mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gslyc > > > > > --------------090900060602060207030502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is a shame that all individuals with real concerns over this matter can no longer make an official protest.

Daniel Merriman wrote:

Judging from the lack of responses I guess my first email was too vague. My
question is: Since this race did not meet the GSLYC 2004 Sailing
Instructions requirements can it be considered an official race? This
concerns me for a number of reasons. Are the rules not there for a reason?
How would the founders of this race feel about their race being changed? I
am pretty sure how two of them would feel since I asked their opinions when
this rule was written while I was Race Committee Chairman. They felt that
this should be a grueling race in any weather conditions simulating an
Around the World Alone Race as best could be simulated on the GSL. That was
why it was originally scheduled for Spring racing when the weather can be
its worst. The third person has since changed his mind and was the one that
changed the date so I am unsure of his feelings. I also know that Ron
Chandler, "Encore", the winner of the inaugural race, was very proud of
winning in the very harsh conditions that forced many other boats to drop
out that year. How will he feel about the race being made much simpler and
sharing his name on the trophy with this winner? Will the Reynolds Cup be
shortened when the weather looks bad the next time? I have been in a couple
of these that I wished at the time would have been shortened but never would
have considered it. What about the racers that may have participated in the
race had they known it was not going to be as advertised? Can you change a
race at the Skippers meeting and be fair to the people not there?

When I was Race Committee Chairman I was criticized by an individual for the
way I was conducting the race program. His advice for making decisions was
to first follow the rules, lacking any rule follow tradition, and if neither
of these exist use reason. There was a rule and tradition that were not
followed in this case.

I am sure that I will be accused of being too critical. I am not alone in
these concerns and I'm sure that there are others that I have not heard
from. Many people were very critical of me when I was the Chairman because
of the changes that were made but I tried to address everyone's concerns
rather than ignoring them. I have also noticed that the changes made while I
was Chairman, with a few exceptions, are still being used.

Dan Merriman
formerly "AirBoss"





----- Original Message ----- 
<mailto:gslyc@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 9:45 AM

Excerpt from the 2004 GSLYC Sailing Instructions revised 04/16/04.

Special Trophy Races
Endurance Solo Cup: Offshore format. Start and finish in the vicinity of J
or S mark. Race should be more than 30 nautical miles and not more than 65
nautical miles. Scoring is calculated using PHRF Time on Time calculation.



----- Original Message ----- 
Sailing" <utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:54 PM

Because of the forecast of large thunderstorms and a desire to live

another day,

the competitors decided to shorten the course from the normal 60 miles to

25.

The day started rather light from the West and switching to the East,

favoring

the Ultimate 20 with the kite. Later the wind freshened from the North at

about

10 - 15. Just as the last boats were finishing, the expected storm hit

with a

vengeance. Zendo dropped out of the race so that the committee boat could

get in

before the storm and it hit just as them pulled into the slip. Zendo
unfortunately was caught in the channel and was later pulled in by the

Rescue One.

The standings are as follows:

PLACE   BOAT                        UNCORRECTED    CORRECTED
1       Euphoria                    6:33:02        6:31:04
2       Wasabi                      6:50:30        7:14:25
3       Latitude                    8:01:19        7:34:57
4       Zendo                       DNF

Congratulations to those who competed. Long may you live.

-- 
Don't be good...
HAVE LOTS OF FUN!
Robert Harper





_______________________________________________
GSLYC mailing list
GSLYC@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gslyc

--------------090900060602060207030502-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sail.ray@att.net Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Re: [GSLYC] re: Solo Endurance Date: 22 Jul 2004 14:01:08 +0000 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15334_1090504868_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From a distance of 800 miles, I respect all parties involved. I have the following comment: "..should be over 30 miles.." leaves a lot of air space for negotiations at the day of the race. If the rules stated, "...must be over 30 miles...", then the rule would stand, regardless of the outcome and decisions made that morning. I realize that in some minds I am nit picking language and syntax. But rules are deliberately overly stated with precise language because of such misunderstandings and conflicts of interpretation. Try reading the 2004 US Coast Guard "Rules of Navigation". Then also, does the entire body of rules, issued annually, allow for any changes to be made by the entrants, or is the decision left solely to the RC chair? You can wrestle with that one. I close with the footnote that RC chairs are Keepers of the Rules, not,as some previous RC chairs have done, exercised arbitrary week to week interpretations, issued handicaps of favorable ratings to friends, and verbally assaulted protest filers in closed sessions. Ray and Rockie BASELINE San Pedro --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15334_1090504868_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

From a distance of 800 miles, I respect all parties involved.

I have the following comment: "..should be over 30 miles.." leaves a lot of air space for negotiations at the day of the race. If the rules stated, "...must be over 30 miles...", then the rule would stand, regardless of the outcome and decisions made that morning. I realize that in some minds I am nit picking language and syntax. But rules are deliberately overly stated with precise language because of such misunderstandings and conflicts of interpretation.

Try reading the 2004 US Coast Guard "Rules of Navigation".

Then also, does the entire body of rules, issued annually, allow for any changes to be made by the entrants, or is the decision left solely to the RC chair? You can wrestle with that one.

I close with the footnote that RC chairs are Keepers of the Rules, not,as some previous RC chairs have done, exercised arbitrary week to week interpretations, issued handicaps of favorable ratings to friends, and verbally assaulted protest filers in closed sessions.

Ray and Rockie

BASELINE

San Pedro

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15334_1090504868_0-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: (utah-sailing) FWD: Re: [GSLYC] re: Solo Endurance Date: 22 Jul 2004 14:17:33 -0600 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: Dan Were you waiting for my response? I wasn't there. I know you weren't there. Sailing instructions can be modified. Current members and racers made some decisions. I don't know how those decisions were made; what process was followed; and whether thay were correct. I'm sure, since you were not there, that you are not fully aware of the process that was followed. But, you seem to be taking away the credit Scott Gilmore deserves for winning a good regatta. By the way. The 80 miler has been shortened in the past because of weather concerns. (and for very just cause. The weather became very serious on the last occasion I remember). So there is a precidence for shortening long standing regattas because of weather issues. Just thought you would like to know. Dave ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: Great Salt Lake Yacht Club >Judging from the lack of responses I guess my first email was too vague. My >question is: Since this race did not meet the GSLYC 2004 Sailing >Instructions requirements can it be considered an official race? This >concerns me for a number of reasons. Are the rules not there for a reason? >How would the founders of this race feel about their race being changed? I >am pretty sure how two of them would feel since I asked their opinions when >this rule was written while I was Race Committee Chairman. They felt that >this should be a grueling race in any weather conditions simulating an >Around the World Alone Race as best could be simulated on the GSL. That was >why it was originally scheduled for Spring racing when the weather can be >its worst. The third person has since changed his mind and was the one that >changed the date so I am unsure of his feelings. I also know that Ron >Chandler, "Encore", the winner of the inaugural race, was very proud of >winning in the very harsh conditions that forced many other boats to drop >out that year. How will he feel about the race being made much simpler and >sharing his name on the trophy with this winner? Will the Reynolds Cup be >shortened when the weather looks bad the next time? I have been in a couple >of these that I wished at the time would have been shortened but never would >have considered it. What about the racers that may have participated in the >race had they known it was not going to be as advertised? Can you change a >race at the Skippers meeting and be fair to the people not there? > >When I was Race Committee Chairman I was criticized by an individual for the >way I was conducting the race program. His advice for making decisions was >to first follow the rules, lacking any rule follow tradition, and if neither >of these exist use reason. There was a rule and tradition that were not >followed in this case. > >I am sure that I will be accused of being too critical. I am not alone in >these concerns and I'm sure that there are others that I have not heard >from. Many people were very critical of me when I was the Chairman because >of the changes that were made but I tried to address everyone's concerns >rather than ignoring them. I have also noticed that the changes made while I >was Chairman, with a few exceptions, are still being used. > >Dan Merriman >formerly "AirBoss" > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Daniel Merriman >To: utah sailing ; GSLYC list > >Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 9:45 AM >Subject: (utah-sailing) re: Solo Endurance > >Excerpt from the 2004 GSLYC Sailing Instructions revised 04/16/04. > >Special Trophy Races >Endurance Solo Cup: Offshore format. Start and finish in the vicinity of J >or S mark. Race should be more than 30 nautical miles and not more than 65 >nautical miles. Scoring is calculated using PHRF Time on Time calculation. > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Harper" >To: "Great Salt Lake Yacht Club" ; "Utah >Sailing" >Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:54 PM >Subject: [GSLYC] Solo Endurance > >> Because of the forecast of large thunderstorms and a desire to live >another day, >> the competitors decided to shorten the course from the normal 60 miles to >25. >> The day started rather light from the West and switching to the East, >favoring >> the Ultimate 20 with the kite. Later the wind freshened from the North at >about >> 10 - 15. Just as the last boats were finishing, the expected storm hit >with a >> vengeance. Zendo dropped out of the race so that the committee boat could >get in >> before the storm and it hit just as them pulled into the slip. Zendo >> unfortunately was caught in the channel and was later pulled in by the >Rescue One. >> >> The standings are as follows: >> >> PLACE BOAT UNCORRECTED CORRECTED >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> 1 Euphoria 6:33:02 6:31:04 >> 2 Wasabi 6:50:30 7:14:25 >> 3 Latitude 8:01:19 7:34:57 >> 4 Zendo DNF >> >> Congratulations to those who competed. Long may you live. >> >> -- >> Don't be good... >> HAVE LOTS OF FUN! >> Robert Harper > > > > >_______________________________________________ >GSLYC mailing list >GSLYC@mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gslyc > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel Merriman" Subject: (utah-sailing) Solo Endurance Date: 22 Jul 2004 19:52:04 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C47025.5CEAA940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unfortunately the Sailing Instructions were written by a group of = volunteers trying to do their best rather than lawyers. Ray is correct = that "should" does not mean "shall" or "must" in a court of law. = However, I was there when they were written and have confirmed it with = the person doing the actual writing. The "intent" was to have a = grueling, any conditions 60 mile race. The only time it would be = shortened was for light,fluky winds in which case luck becomes involved = rather than skill and length really would not matter. I am sure that is = debatable also but that was the "intent". Yes the Coast Guard rules are = "gray", as are most government documents including the stacks I deal = with everyday. This one was not meant to be that way. I hope Ray, that = you considered me a "Keeper of the Rules" and that I didn't do any of = things you mentioned. I am not sure of the meaning behind the Busheks response about making = official protests. Interested individuals should always be able to voice = their concerns whether or not a racing time limit on protests has = expired. I know many concerns were brought to me well after the = incident. I believe I addressed every one of them. Sorry Dave, I was not waiting for you but hoping for other responses. = Yours are always interesting however. You are correct that I was not = there. I'm not sure how you know whether I know the process that was = followed. I do know the correct process. I have been down that road. Was = it followed here? When I was Chairman we had to make sure that we dotted = every i and crossed every t or else you and others immediately corrected = us. Why does that not happen now? This is not the first mistake I have = seen and none of them have been corrected by anyone. I can remember = being accused of being "unprofessional" and having an "unfair advantage" = when the Reynolds Cup course was distributed. Any race committee member = that also races will have that advantage, albeit very slight. BTW, We = didn't win that race. I was berated for changing the Coca-Cola and = Governors Cup from going to the Antelope Island Marina to around buoys. = It didn't seem to matter to the people complaining that most of A Fleet = could not get into the marina. I was even chewed out for moving J mark = 1/4 mile so that Shockwave could have enough water to race. We did all = those changes by the book and still were criticized. Funny no one = changed them the next two seasons. Does no one care about the rules = anymore? Doesn't that degrade the whole racing experience? Is everyone = suddenly afraid to step up to this board and Race Committee and = complain? That is what I am seeing. I would never take away credit from any racer winning any race(it wasn't = a regatta). My concern is with the matter in which this change was made = and whether it was correct. I still feel that this 25 mile race, in = moderate at best conditions, was not an "Endurance" Cup. It was not the = race that the founders intended. Unfortunately my memory only goes back 10 years on the Reynolds Cup and = records of races before then are very tough to find. Was the race you = mentioned shortened before the start or after? If after that is a = different situation. I do appreciate the history lesson. Too much is = forgotten about the YC's past and the people that have worked hard for = the club. Your jab about "current members" did not go unnoticed. = Technically I am still a member until the end of this year and have = until then to pay my dues. Because of that, according to the bylaws, I = am still "bound by all duties, obligations, and liabilities" affecting = paying and non-paying members. I believe that gives me the right to = question this race. The jury is still out on whether I pay those dues. BTW, most of my questions still are unanswered. Dan Merriman ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C47025.5CEAA940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Unfortunately the = Sailing=20 Instructions were written by a group of volunteers trying to do their = best=20 rather than lawyers. Ray is correct that "should" does not mean "shall" = or=20 "must" in a court of law. However, I was there when they were written = and have=20 confirmed it with the person doing the actual writing. The "intent" was = to have=20 a grueling, any conditions 60 mile race. The only time it would be = shortened was=20 for light,fluky winds in which case luck becomes involved rather than = skill and=20 length really would not matter. I am sure that is debatable also but = that was=20 the "intent". Yes the Coast Guard rules are "gray", as are most = government=20 documents including the stacks I deal with everyday. This one was not = meant to=20 be that way. I hope Ray, that you considered me a "Keeper of the Rules" = and that=20 I didn't do any of things you mentioned.

I am not sure of the meaning behind the = Busheks=20 response about making official protests. Interested individuals should = always be=20 able to voice their concerns whether or not a racing time limit on = protests has=20 expired. I know many concerns were brought to me well after the = incident. I=20 believe I addressed every one of them.

Sorry Dave, I was not waiting for you = but hoping=20 for other responses. Yours are always interesting however. You are = correct that=20 I was not there. I'm not sure how you know whether I know the process = that was=20 followed. I do know the correct process. I have been down that road. Was = it=20 followed here? When I was Chairman we had to make sure that we dotted = every i=20 and crossed every t or else you and others immediately corrected us. Why = does=20 that not happen now? This is not the first mistake I have seen and none = of them=20 have been corrected by anyone. I can remember being accused of being=20 "unprofessional" and having an "unfair advantage" when the Reynolds Cup = course=20 was distributed. Any race committee member that also races will have = that=20 advantage, albeit very slight. BTW, We didn't win that race. I was = berated for=20 changing the Coca-Cola and Governors Cup from going to the Antelope = Island=20 Marina to around buoys. It didn't seem to matter to the people = complaining that=20 most of A Fleet could not get into the marina. I was even chewed = out for=20 moving J mark 1/4 mile so that Shockwave could have enough water to = race. We did=20 all those changes by the book and still were criticized. Funny no one = changed=20 them the next two seasons. Does no one care about the rules anymore? = Doesn't=20 that degrade the whole racing experience? Is everyone suddenly afraid to = step up=20 to this board and Race Committee and complain? That is what I am=20 seeing.

I would never take away credit from any racer = winning=20 any race(it wasn't a regatta). My concern is with the matter in which = this=20 change was made and whether it was correct. I still feel that this 25 = mile race,=20 in moderate at best conditions, was not an "Endurance" Cup. It was not = the race=20 that the founders intended.

Unfortunately my memory only goes back 10 = years on the=20 Reynolds Cup and records of races before then are very tough to find. = Was the=20 race you mentioned shortened before the start or after? If after that is = a=20 different situation. I do appreciate the history lesson. Too much is = forgotten=20 about the YC's past and the people that have worked hard for the club. = Your jab=20 about "current members" did not go unnoticed. Technically I am still a = member=20 until the end of this year and have until then to pay my dues. Because = of that,=20 according to the bylaws, I am still "bound by all duties, obligations, = and=20 liabilities" affecting paying and non-paying members. I believe that = gives me=20 the right to question this race. The jury is still out on whether I pay = those=20 dues.

BTW, most of my questions still are=20 unanswered.

Dan Merriman

------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C47025.5CEAA940-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sail.ray@att.net Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Solo Endurance Date: 23 Jul 2004 13:12:55 +0000 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27966_1090588375_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No, Dan, your character never came in doubt as to your performance. Whom I refered to know well their complicity. But here, folks! This is really something to awe about! From www.scuttlebutt.com ROGUE WAVES Paris - European satellites have given confirmation to terrified mariners who describe seeing freak waves as tall as 10-storey buildings, the European Space Agency (ESA) said. "Rogue waves" have been the anecdotal cause behind scores of sinkings of vessels as large as container ships and supertankers over the past two decades. But evidence to support this has been sketchy, and many marine scientists have clung to statistical models that say monstrous deviations from the normal sea state only occur once every thousand years. Testing this promise, ESA tasked two of its Earth-scanning satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to monitor the oceans with their radar. The radars send back "imagettes" -- a picture of the sea surface in a rectangle measuring 10 by five kilometers (six by 2.5 miles) that is taken every 200 kms (120 miles). Around 30,000 separate "imagettes" were taken by the two satellites in a three-week project, MaxWave, that was carried out in 2001. Even though the research period was brief, the satellites identified more than 10 individual giant waves around the globe that measured more than 25 metres (81.25 feet) in height, ESA said in a press release. The waves exist "in higher numbers than anyone expected," said Wolfgang Rosenthal, senior scientist with the GKSS Research Centre in Geesthacht, Germany, who pored over the data. "The next step is to analyze if they can be forecasted," he said. Ironically, the research coincided with two "rogue wave" incidents in which two tourist cruisers, the Bremen and the Caledonian Star, had their bridge windows smashed by 30-metre (100-feet) monsters in the South Atlantic. The Bremen was left drifting without navigation or propulsion for two hours after the hit. In 1995, the British cruise liner Queen Elizabeth II encountered a 29-metre (94.25-feet) wall of water during a hurricane in the North Atlantic. Its captain, Ronald Warwick, likened it to "the White Cliffs of Dover." - AFP, full story: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/science_sea --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27966_1090588375_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

No, Dan, your character never came in doubt as to your performance. Whom I refered to know well their complicity.

But here, folks! This is really something to awe about!

From www.scuttlebutt.com

ROGUE WAVES
Paris - European satellites have given confirmation to terrified mariners
who describe seeing freak waves as tall as 10-storey buildings, the
European Space Agency (ESA) said. "Rogue waves" have been the anecdotal
cause behind scores of sinkings of vessels as large as container ships and
supertankers over the past two decades. But evidence to support this has
been sketchy, and many marine scientists have clung to statistical models
that say monstrous deviations from the normal sea state only occur once
every thousand years.

Testing this promise, ESA tasked two of its Earth-scanning satellites,
ERS-1 and ERS-2, to monitor the oceans with their radar. The radars send
back "imagettes" -- a picture of the sea surface in a rectangle measuring
10 by five kilometers (six by 2.5 miles) that is taken every 200 kms (120
miles). Around 30,000 separate "imagettes" were taken by the two satellites
in a three-week project, MaxWave, that was carried out in 2001.

Even though the research period was brief, the satellites identified more
than 10 individual giant waves around the globe that measured more than 25
metres (81.25 feet) in height, ESA said in a press release. The waves exist
"in higher numbers than anyone expected," said Wolfgang Rosenthal, senior
scientist with the GKSS Research Centre in Geesthacht, Germany, who pored
over the data. "The next step is to analyze if they can be forecasted," he
said.

Ironically, the research coincided with two "rogue wave" incidents in which
two tourist cruisers, the Bremen and the Caledonian Star, had their bridge
windows smashed by 30-metre (100-feet) monsters in the South Atlantic. The
Bremen was left drifting without navigation or propulsion for two hours
after the hit. In 1995, the British cruise liner Queen Elizabeth II
encountered a 29-metre (94.25-feet) wall of water during a hurricane in the
North Atlantic. Its captain, Ronald Warwick, likened it to "the White
Cliffs of Dover." - AFP, full story:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/science_sea

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27966_1090588375_0-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Stout" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Re: [GSLYC] re: Solo Endurance Date: 23 Jul 2004 07:25:13 -0600 Dan, Racing this year on the GSL has taken on a different flavor from past years. First of all many of the boats that regularly race on the lake are no longer able to get out of the marina because of the depth of the channel. Some of the diehards are healing their boats to make it out. Also the route to the lake is down a channel between narrow buoys that, on the return trip, is dead upwind in those nasty tooele twisters and has some sub 5 foot shallow spots even without waves and wind tide. Because of this the swing, shoal, and smaller low draft boats make up a large part of the racing fleet. A lot of the boats that are racing were designed for "protected water" sailing. A good portion of the "offshore" racing boats are unable to get out of the marina. I also don't know of any boat on the GSL that has been professionally prepared for extended racing and I don't know of any that carry life rafts, have watertight bulkheads, or the other specialized safety devices that even the mini transat boat carry. Many boats have been damaged because of the shallow conditions and at least one injury has occured. If you draw 5 foot you have run aground and if you are at 4 feet you may have run aground. Conditions at the islands and their coves have also deteriated and offer very few if any protected areas. All of the semi-protected areas I know of are very shallow now. Even with the decision to shorten the race there was still one boat that had trouble getting into the marina and sustained damage after anchoring outside the marina. With only one marginally servicable marina and no other places to hide from storms it has become at times a dangerous place to sail especially during thunder storms and big south winds. I see nothing wrong with compromises or changes to the racing rules when safety is of concern. We only have to go back a few years with the Sidney Hobart race for some sobering examples of "do or die" racing. I'm personally out there to have fun and be safe and I think as a club this year we are doing that. Tom Stout Ultimate 20 #142 Forty Two * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rharper@xmission.com Subject: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion formerly Solo Endurance Date: 23 Jul 2004 09:15:35 -0600 I was hoping that I did not have to weigh in on this and take sides but I guess I have been drawn out and must respond. First I never attacked the RC for changing the course from going up to Antelope to racing at the South end of the lake. I was however upset that since I had signed up to finish the race at Antelope and left my cell phone number with the RC. When the course was changed, I was not notified by the RC that my services would no longer needed but was informed by one of the competitors three days before the event. I was later berated by a member of the board for not being at an impromptu meeting while I was coaching little league soccer. I felt this behavior was abhorrent and uncalled for. As for fear of approaching the board. I do not believe there is a "fear" of approaching the board, if there is then I am sorry they feel that way. I cannot speak for all but as for me, I do not lord over the club. I server the members of the club as best I can. I have freely admitted mistakes and asked forgiveness as soon as possible in a public forum. I serve the club because I want to give something back to the community and my friends. I do not berate the competitors for failing to follow the rules but they are held accountable for sailing proper courses and I feel very bad when they do not. As when I am skipper of my boat, I do not place blame on my crew or competitors for my failing to win. If my crew makes a mistake during a race, much of the blame should rest on my shoulders for not giving them enough time or properly preparing them. I feel the same way when my fellow competitors sail the wrong course. I feel that I must not have made my instructions clear enough for them and I am saddened for their misfortune. If you want to continue this flaming duel, I suggest we take this off line and mail each other directly rather than airing laundry on this public forum. I am not sure of what I have done to you and your friends but if I have wronged you, I am very sorry and I can assure you that I did not intend to do so. Best of sailing to all. Robert Harper rharper@xmission.com * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel Merriman" Subject: (utah-sailing) Re: [GSLYC] re: Solo Endurance Date: 23 Jul 2004 13:21:00 -0600 Ray, I agree with many of the things you mentioned. Safety was always a concern and I know I cancelled some Wed. nights races for that reason that made me unpopular. Shortening a race for the right reasons is okay as long as it is done in the correct manner according to the rules. That is my main question that no one seems to want to answer. Was this done by the rules? I agree that we do not want a disaster to happen but remember that nasty weather conditions were one of things that the founders of this race wanted. You bring up the Fastnet. How would the racers feel if that race was shortened to a third of its distance? True, that is an ocean race and the racers are better prepared. Is that an excuse in the Endurance Cup case? Don't the racers show up for the Skippers Meeting knowing what the race is and have their boat and themselves prepared for what the race offers? They should. I feel it is always the skippers decision to race or bail out. I do not fault anyone for not starting or completing a race because they or their boat were not up to the task. I never did the Reynolds Cup in my J92 because I felt my crew was not up to the task and that they would be very uncomfortable the whole race. I have not finished other races because my crew, and sometimes myself, became uncomfortable with the conditions. No regrets! That said, I was never very comfortable with the Endurance Cup for the safety reasons you bring up. As I keep saying though, that is what the race is. If no racer feels he is prepared for what it offers then they should not race and the race should be cancelled due to lack of interest. Remember that inaugural race. I was told of waves over 10' and winds in the 40's. Only three of, I believe, 10 boats made it around the first mark. One boat lost a headsail after it was cut away. Other boats had damage. But two of the founders completed the race and they said those were the exact conditions they had envisioned for the race. Thanks for your response and the history. I'll ask Clint about that one. Dan Merriman * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel Merriman" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Re: [GSLYC] re: Solo Endurance Date: 23 Jul 2004 13:34:00 -0600 Tom,, I appreciate you responding. Good to hear from the racers. I am a little surprised at your comments and possibly your memory. Do you think that the water levels just became a factor this year? Remember "Shockwave" going aground after the Governors Cup almost two years ago? I was one of the first to hit the rocks in the mouth of the marina in 2002. There were races in 2003 that I did not do because I was afraid the waves would build and I would have trouble getting through the mouth. "Slingshot" and "Halcyon" had troubles in both '02 and '03. Why do you think that there is very little A Fleet this year? I don't know of any boats that had crash bulkheads and life rafts. You bring up a good point about the size of boats that can race now and their "offshore" capabilities. Maybe the races that have been traditionally done need to be postponed until the water returns. Make some new races that these boats are made for. Shorter and close in. But don't make the traditional races shorter and easier because boats and/or skippers aren't prepared for them. That is not fair to the previous winners. As I told Ray, if you and your boat are not prepared for a specific race don't do it. Would you take your U20 in the Fastnet? Dan Merriman * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel Merriman" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion formerly Solo Endurance Date: 23 Jul 2004 14:02:44 -0600 Robert, I am not sure how, as Race Chairman, you would not be involved in this. The ultimate decision was yours. My main question is was it done according to the rules? Did you know there was a minimum mileage in the Sailing Instructions? Did you make the necessary change before the race? Simple questions I believe that can, and should, be answered in this public forum. I'm sure I didn't say that you specifically said anything about changing the course on the '02 Coca-Cola Cup. In fact, until you mentioned it I forgot about the incident with you being the finishing committee boat. I don't know who berated you on my committee. It definitely wasn't me. I do know that Gene Morgan called you afterwards and apologized for the mix-up. I also remember the "impromptu meeting" at the Wed. skippers meeting the week prior when the vote was taken about changing the race. The necessary sailing instruction amendments and emails were made prior to the race. I didn't know that you had information about the change three days prior. Maybe you should have called? I didn't know you still had bad feelings over that. I apologize again for myself and members of my committee if you were wronged and improperly treated. It is good to know that you skipper your boat as you say. I have never blamed an individual on my crew for their mistakes. It is a "crew" and we all work together and must help out. I am not sure why you think that I have something against you. If I came across that way it is incorrect. I am only trying to find out specifics about a race that I, and others, have strong feelings about. Simple answers to simple questions. It seems everyone is avoiding the questions and are bringing up other issues. You say that you willingly admit your mistakes. All I am asking is whether you made one this time. If so a correction is necessary. Maybe the Endurance Cup needs to be cancelled for this year and the race that was held be considered a special race. I am sure that with the money that was left in the racing program in '02 a small individual trophy could be purchased. Dan Merriman ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:15 AM > I was hoping that I did not have to weigh in on this and take sides but I > guess I have been drawn out and must respond. > > First I never attacked the RC for changing the course from going up to > Antelope to racing at the South end of the lake. I was however upset that > since I had signed up to finish the race at Antelope and left my cell phone > number with the RC. When the course was changed, I was not notified by the > RC that my services would no longer needed but was informed by one of the > competitors three days before the event. I was later berated by a member of > the board for not being at an impromptu meeting while I was coaching little > league soccer. I felt this behavior was abhorrent and uncalled for. > > As for fear of approaching the board. I do not believe there is a "fear" of > approaching the board, if there is then I am sorry they feel that way. I > cannot speak for all but as for me, I do not lord over the club. I server > the members of the club as best I can. I have freely admitted mistakes and > asked forgiveness as soon as possible in a public forum. I serve the club > because I want to give something back to the community and my friends. > > I do not berate the competitors for failing to follow the rules but they are > held accountable for sailing proper courses and I feel very bad when they > do not. As when I am skipper of my boat, I do not place blame on my crew or > competitors for my failing to win. If my crew makes a mistake during a > race, much of the blame should rest on my shoulders for not giving them > enough time or properly preparing them. I feel the same way when my fellow > competitors sail the wrong course. I feel that I must not have made my > instructions clear enough for them and I am saddened for their misfortune. > > If you want to continue this flaming duel, I suggest we take this off line > and mail each other directly rather than airing laundry on this public > forum. I am not sure of what I have done to you and your friends but if I > have wronged you, I am very sorry and I can assure you that I did not > intend to do so. > > Best of sailing to all. > Robert Harper > > rharper@xmission.com > > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: > * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel Merriman" Subject: Re: [GSLYC] Re: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion formerly SoloEndurance Date: 23 Jul 2004 18:24:24 -0600 Robert, I am glad that you followed up on this matter to its probable conclusion. My answers were not directly answered but you say that the race stands and that was the major issue. I can only read between the lines from what happened at the Skippers meeting but this is what I have understood. No one present knew there was a mileage requirement and therefore no rules were amended. Weather was a concern and was the reason for shortening the race. I guess, for you, it was good that the weather turned out as predicted, not always the case. As to my recourse and letting this issue die I will leave it up to the GSLYC board to decide. They should have received all of the emails and can ask any further questions if needed. Judging from their lack of response I know where that will lead. I will not pursue this past the board. I do regret, for the founders, what this race has become. It was not even near what was intended. Too bad other racers do not speak up. Agree or disagree but have an opinion. I will agree to disagree with you at times and leave it at that. If the world always agreed it would be a rather boring place. I guess I have a different regard for the rules than you. I have been working under a very firm set of rules for the past 20 years and have learned that they are there for good reason. I even have rules saying what words to say and in what order. If I make a mistake dire consequences can result. The GSLYC rules may not be that strict and have the same consequences but they are there for the members. I have a serious problem with people that do not follow them. When it was brought to my attention that I had not followed one of those rules I did all I could to correct it. While I was Race Chairman I based my racing program on what I had seen at the San Diego Yacht Club. I have been racing around Florida the past two years and have been in many venues all with professional race committees. They are very serious about the rules. I guess that the GSLYC is not ready for this level of racing. However, I did try it one year and we had a very successful year. The most boats racing in recent years and extra money at the end of the year. I did receive more compliments than criticism that year. Who else has used a gun for starts and finishes? If you want me to follow up on the problems that arose from changing the course of the '02 Coca-Cola Cup I will. The major chasm in the YC is still there from years past. I fail to see what you have done to repair the old wounds but if you have tried then I commend you. I believe that my wife and I have always at least waved when we see you at the lake. If not it was not intentional. I am beginning to see why there are more ex-members than current members. I believe this is an issue for the board but they seem unwilling to take it on. A few warm hands, kind words, and friendly smiles from them to these ex-members, myself included, would do wonders. There are many issues from 2002 that you are probably not aware of. Most of the board knows. Just look at the names of the ex-members since then. With the receding lake level it will take a great amount of work to keep the club together. Fortunately for me my time is Utah is quickly coming to a close and I can head for warmer, clearer, and less salty waters. Have fun, but try to follow the rules. Dan Merriman * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jana Morgan" Subject: Re: [GSLYC] Re: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion formerly Date: 25 Jul 2004 22:35:54 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C47297.BF1EA020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert, Some constructive criticism, =20 If you want to get all warm and fuzzy, have a friendly wave and repair = old wounds then your last e-mail with a cheap shot to a two-time past = Commodore and former GSLYC member, negates your good will and makes you = look stupid. Below you will read an open letter that I sent in November 2002 to the = new Commodore Leroy Carter and GSLYC Board removing Gene and myself from = any and all future involvement with the Great Salt Lake Yacht Club. = Your recent e-mail supports our decision. Do not address or mention Genes or my name in this or any other forum = ever again. Jana Morgan November 13, 2002 =20 Leroy, past and present Board Members, =20 Thanks for the note of apology. The omission of the "fun awards" (there = were a couple of other items that were overlooked as well) is of no = consequence and I need no apology or for it to be made "right". After = the embarrassing display by the Commodore an apology from Gerry to the = membership may be in order. =20 During last summers RC bash-a-thon your points of tradition, rules and = reason were noted. I believe however they were directed to the wrong = persons. Tradition, rules and reason were drop kicked out the door last = Saturday night and unfortunately fueled, egged on and cheered by the = pack mentality at the back of the room. It was a blatant display of the = divisive attitude that has been purposefully created and directed over = the past year by the outgoing commodore and those that run at his heel. =20 Make no mistake; this is not a case of "sour grapes" for us. In fact, = we are relieved that it is over. As always my desire would be to help = and further the efforts of the Yacht Club but not with the personal = attacks, innuendo and lies of last year. I can no longer support the = deceitful, hateful, vindictive turn the Great Salt Lake Yacht Club has = taken. =20 Good luck to you Leroy, you have a daunting task ahead. =20 Sincerely, Jana -----Original Message----- [mailto:gslyc-bounces+ray=3Dmediamovers.com@mailman.xmission.com] On = Behalf Of rharper@xmission.com Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 1:44 PM formerly SoloEndurance How was I to know that I was supposed to call. Gene called me with the intent to apologize but then proceded to blame me for the lack of = someone calling me. I was there at the skippers' meeting. The other competitors and I had a discussion about the course, canceling, postponing, etc. The competitors decided on a course and I agreed realizing that it may be in violation = of some rule. I am resposible for many things as an officer of the club. = One of witch is the safety of the club and it's members. If the forecast = were only for wind and some rain, I may have stuck to the rules but the predicted severity of the storm and lightning we contributing factors in the decision. After seeing what happened at the end of the day, I would have made the same decision sooner had I known earlier. I do not regret = nor retract my call fot the race. I will let the club members pass their judgement on me as they see fit. Their enjoyment of the sport, the yacht club, and freindship are more important to me than some rules in a book. If that makes me unfit then guilty as charged and damn proud of it. Can we at least agree to disagree and let this discussion die? I don't = know what recourse you have to invalidate the race but if it is that = important to you then take that course of action. Let us not restart the = deviciveness of years past. I was hoping to repair old wounds. It breaks my hear when = I extend a friendly wave or hand to a fellow sailor and they turn their = back. Life is too short for us to harbor such bad blood. It only serves to = lessen us, not to elevate us above the rest. May the winds be fair and the water deep in your future. Robert ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C47297.BF1EA020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert,

Some constructive = criticism, =20

If you want to get all warm = and fuzzy, have=20 a friendly wave and repair old wounds then your last e-mail = with a=20 cheap shot to a two-time past Commodore and former GSLYC member, negates = your=20 good will and makes you look stupid.

Below you will read an open = letter that I=20 sent in November 2002 to the new Commodore Leroy Carter and GSLYC Board = removing=20 Gene and myself from any and all future involvement with the Great Salt = Lake=20 Yacht Club. Your recent e-mail supports our=20 decision.

Do not address or mention = Genes or my name=20 in this or any other forum ever again.

Jana = Morgan

November 13, 2002

Leroy, past and = present Board=20 Members,

Thanks for the = note of=20 apology. The omission of = the =93fun=20 awards=94 (there were a couple of other items that were overlooked as = well) is of=20 no consequence and I need no apology or for it to be made = =93right=94. After the embarrassing display = by the=20 Commodore an apology from Gerry to the membership may be in = order.

During last = summers RC=20 bash-a-thon your points of tradition, rules and reason were noted. I believe however they were = directed to=20 the wrong persons. = Tradition, rules=20 and reason were drop kicked out the door last Saturday night and = unfortunately=20 fueled, egged on and cheered by the pack mentality at the back of the = room. It was a blatant display of = the divisive=20 attitude that has been purposefully created and directed over the past = year by=20 the outgoing commodore and those that run at his heel.

Make no mistake; = this is not=20 a case of =93sour grapes=94 for us. In=20 fact, we are relieved that it is over. As always my desire would be to = help and=20 further the efforts of the Yacht Club but not with the personal attacks, = innuendo and lies of last year. I=20 can no longer support the deceitful, hateful, vindictive turn the Great = Salt=20 Lake Yacht Club has taken.

Good luck to you = Leroy, you=20 have a daunting task ahead.

Sincerely, = Jana

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = gslyc-bounces+ray=3Dmediamovers.com@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:g= slyc-bounces+ray=3Dmediamovers.com@mailman.xmission.com]=20 On Behalf Of
rharper@xmission.com
Sent: = Friday,=20 July 23, 2004 1:44 PM
To: Great Salt Lake Yacht Club
Subject: Re: = [GSLYC]=20 Re: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion=20 formerly
SoloEndurance

How was I to know = that I=20 was supposed to call. Gene called me with the
intent to apologize but = then=20 proceded to blame me for the lack of someone
calling = me.

I was=20 there at the skippers' meeting. The other competitors and I had = a
discussion=20 about the course, canceling, postponing, etc. The competitors
decided = on a=20 course and I agreed realizing that it may be in violation of
some = rule. I am=20 resposible for many things as an officer of the club. One
of witch is = the=20 safety of the club and it's members. If the forecast were
only for = wind and=20 some rain, I may have stuck to the rules but the
predicted severity = of the=20 storm and lightning we contributing factors in
the decision. After = seeing=20 what happened at the end of the day, I would
have made the same = decision=20 sooner had I known earlier. I do not regret nor
retract my call fot = the=20 race.

I will let the club members pass their judgement on me as = they see=20 fit.
Their enjoyment of the sport, the yacht club, and freindship are = more
important to me than some rules in a book. If that makes me = unfit=20 then
guilty as charged and damn proud of it.

Can we at least = agree to=20 disagree and let this discussion die? I don't know
what recourse you = have to=20 invalidate the race but if it is that important
to you then take that = course=20 of action. Let us not restart the = deviciveness
of years=20 past. I was hoping to repair old wounds. It breaks my hear when = I
extend a=20 friendly wave or hand to a fellow sailor and they turn their = back.
Life is=20 too short for us to harbor such bad blood. It only serves to = lessen
us, not=20 to elevate us above the rest.

May the winds be fair and = the water=20 deep in your future.
Robert

------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C47297.BF1EA020-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: Re: [GSLYC] Re: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion formerly SoloEndurance Date: 26 Jul 2004 10:35:52 -0600 RETURN TO SENDER ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Robert, > >I am glad that you followed up on this matter to its probable conclusion. My >answers were not directly answered but you say that the race stands and that >was the major issue. I can only read between the lines from what happened at >the Skippers meeting but this is what I have understood. No one present knew >there was a mileage requirement and therefore no rules were amended. Weather >was a concern and was the reason for shortening the race. I guess, for you, >it was good that the weather turned out as predicted, not always the case. > >As to my recourse and letting this issue die I will leave it up to the GSLYC >board to decide. They should have received all of the emails and can ask any >further questions if needed. Judging from their lack of response I know >where that will lead. I will not pursue this past the board. I do regret, >for the founders, what this race has become. It was not even near what was >intended. Too bad other racers do not speak up. Agree or disagree but have >an opinion. > >I will agree to disagree with you at times and leave it at that. If the >world always agreed it would be a rather boring place. I guess I have a >different regard for the rules than you. I have been working under a very >firm set of rules for the past 20 years and have learned that they are there >for good reason. I even have rules saying what words to say and in what >order. If I make a mistake dire consequences can result. The GSLYC rules may >not be that strict and have the same consequences but they are there for the >members. I have a serious problem with people that do not follow them. When >it was brought to my attention that I had not followed one of those rules I >did all I could to correct it. While I was Race Chairman I based my racing >program on what I had seen at the San Diego Yacht Club. I have been racing >around Florida the past two years and have been in many venues all with >professional race committees. They are very serious about the rules. I guess >that the GSLYC is not ready for this level of racing. However, I did try it >one year and we had a very successful year. The most boats racing in recent >years and extra money at the end of the year. I did receive more compliments >than criticism that year. Who else has used a gun for starts and finishes? > >If you want me to follow up on the problems that arose from changing the >course of the '02 Coca-Cola Cup I will. The major chasm in the YC is still >there from years past. I fail to see what you have done to repair the old >wounds but if you have tried then I commend you. I believe that my wife and >I have always at least waved when we see you at the lake. If not it was not >intentional. I am beginning to see why there are more ex-members than >current members. I believe this is an issue for the board but they seem >unwilling to take it on. A few warm hands, kind words, and friendly smiles >from them to these ex-members, myself included, would do wonders. There are >many issues from 2002 that you are probably not aware of. Most of the board >knows. Just look at the names of the ex-members since then. With the >receding lake level it will take a great amount of work to keep the club >together. > >Fortunately for me my time is Utah is quickly coming to a close and I can >head for warmer, clearer, and less salty waters. > >Have fun, but try to follow the rules. > >Dan Merriman > > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: Re: [GSLYC] Re: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion formerly SoloEndurance Date: 26 Jul 2004 10:57:31 -0600 RETURN TO SENDER ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Robert, > >I am glad that you followed up on this matter to its probable conclusion. My >answers were not directly answered but you say that the race stands and that >was the major issue. I can only read between the lines from what happened at >the Skippers meeting but this is what I have understood. No one present knew >there was a mileage requirement and therefore no rules were amended. Weather >was a concern and was the reason for shortening the race. I guess, for you, >it was good that the weather turned out as predicted, not always the case. > >As to my recourse and letting this issue die I will leave it up to the GSLYC >board to decide. They should have received all of the emails and can ask any >further questions if needed. Judging from their lack of response I know >where that will lead. I will not pursue this past the board. I do regret, >for the founders, what this race has become. It was not even near what was >intended. Too bad other racers do not speak up. Agree or disagree but have >an opinion. > >I will agree to disagree with you at times and leave it at that. If the >world always agreed it would be a rather boring place. I guess I have a >different regard for the rules than you. I have been working under a very >firm set of rules for the past 20 years and have learned that they are there >for good reason. I even have rules saying what words to say and in what >order. If I make a mistake dire consequences can result. The GSLYC rules may >not be that strict and have the same consequences but they are there for the >members. I have a serious problem with people that do not follow them. When >it was brought to my attention that I had not followed one of those rules I >did all I could to correct it. While I was Race Chairman I based my racing >program on what I had seen at the San Diego Yacht Club. I have been racing >around Florida the past two years and have been in many venues all with >professional race committees. They are very serious about the rules. I guess >that the GSLYC is not ready for this level of racing. However, I did try it >one year and we had a very successful year. The most boats racing in recent >years and extra money at the end of the year. I did receive more compliments >than criticism that year. Who else has used a gun for starts and finishes? > >If you want me to follow up on the problems that arose from changing the >course of the '02 Coca-Cola Cup I will. The major chasm in the YC is still >there from years past. I fail to see what you have done to repair the old >wounds but if you have tried then I commend you. I believe that my wife and >I have always at least waved when we see you at the lake. If not it was not >intentional. I am beginning to see why there are more ex-members than >current members. I believe this is an issue for the board but they seem >unwilling to take it on. A few warm hands, kind words, and friendly smiles >from them to these ex-members, myself included, would do wonders. There are >many issues from 2002 that you are probably not aware of. Most of the board >knows. Just look at the names of the ex-members since then. With the >receding lake level it will take a great amount of work to keep the club >together. > >Fortunately for me my time is Utah is quickly coming to a close and I can >head for warmer, clearer, and less salty waters. > >Have fun, but try to follow the rules. > >Dan Merriman > > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion formerly Solo Endurance Date: 26 Jul 2004 11:04:19 -0600 RETURN TO SENDER ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Robert, > >I am not sure how, as Race Chairman, you would not be involved in this. The >ultimate decision was yours. My main question is was it done according to >the rules? Did you know there was a minimum mileage in the Sailing >Instructions? Did you make the necessary change before the race? Simple >questions I believe that can, and should, be answered in this public forum. > >I'm sure I didn't say that you specifically said anything about changing the >course on the '02 Coca-Cola Cup. In fact, until you mentioned it I forgot >about the incident with you being the finishing committee boat. I don't know >who berated you on my committee. It definitely wasn't me. I do know that >Gene Morgan called you afterwards and apologized for the mix-up. I also >remember the "impromptu meeting" at the Wed. skippers meeting the week prior >when the vote was taken about changing the race. The necessary sailing >instruction amendments and emails were made prior to the race. I didn't know >that you had information about the change three days prior. Maybe you should >have called? I didn't know you still had bad feelings over that. I apologize >again for myself and members of my committee if you were wronged and >improperly treated. > >It is good to know that you skipper your boat as you say. I have never >blamed an individual on my crew for their mistakes. It is a "crew" and we >all work together and must help out. > >I am not sure why you think that I have something against you. If I came >across that way it is incorrect. I am only trying to find out specifics >about a race that I, and others, have strong feelings about. Simple answers >to simple questions. It seems everyone is avoiding the questions and are >bringing up other issues. You say that you willingly admit your mistakes. >All I am asking is whether you made one this time. If so a correction is >necessary. Maybe the Endurance Cup needs to be cancelled for this year and >the race that was held be considered a special race. I am sure that with the >money that was left in the racing program in '02 a small individual trophy >could be purchased. > >Dan Merriman > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: ; >Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:15 AM >Subject: (utah-sailing) Responsiblity Discussion formerly Solo Endurance > > >> I was hoping that I did not have to weigh in on this and take sides but I >> guess I have been drawn out and must respond. >> >> First I never attacked the RC for changing the course from going up to >> Antelope to racing at the South end of the lake. I was however upset that >> since I had signed up to finish the race at Antelope and left my cell >phone >> number with the RC. When the course was changed, I was not notified by the >> RC that my services would no longer needed but was informed by one of the >> competitors three days before the event. I was later berated by a member >of >> the board for not being at an impromptu meeting while I was coaching >little >> league soccer. I felt this behavior was abhorrent and uncalled for. >> >> As for fear of approaching the board. I do not believe there is a "fear" >of >> approaching the board, if there is then I am sorry they feel that way. I >> cannot speak for all but as for me, I do not lord over the club. I server >> the members of the club as best I can. I have freely admitted mistakes and >> asked forgiveness as soon as possible in a public forum. I serve the club >> because I want to give something back to the community and my friends. >> >> I do not berate the competitors for failing to follow the rules but they >are >> held accountable for sailing proper courses and I feel very bad when they >> do not. As when I am skipper of my boat, I do not place blame on my crew >or >> competitors for my failing to win. If my crew makes a mistake during a >> race, much of the blame should rest on my shoulders for not giving them >> enough time or properly preparing them. I feel the same way when my fellow >> competitors sail the wrong course. I feel that I must not have made my >> instructions clear enough for them and I am saddened for their misfortune. >> >> If you want to continue this flaming duel, I suggest we take this off line >> and mail each other directly rather than airing laundry on this public >> forum. I am not sure of what I have done to you and your friends but if I >> have wronged you, I am very sorry and I can assure you that I did not >> intend to do so. >> >> Best of sailing to all. >> Robert Harper >> >> rharper@xmission.com >> >> >> * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >> * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >> * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >> * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). >> >> > > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Re: [GSLYC] re: Solo Endurance Date: 26 Jul 2004 11:05:02 -0600 RETURN TO SENDER ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Tom,, > >I appreciate you responding. Good to hear from the racers. I am a little >surprised at your comments and possibly your memory. Do you think that the >water levels just became a factor this year? Remember "Shockwave" going >aground after the Governors Cup almost two years ago? I was one of the first >to hit the rocks in the mouth of the marina in 2002. There were races in >2003 that I did not do because I was afraid the waves would build and I >would have trouble getting through the mouth. "Slingshot" and "Halcyon" had >troubles in both '02 and '03. Why do you think that there is very little A >Fleet this year? I don't know of any boats that had crash bulkheads and life >rafts. > >You bring up a good point about the size of boats that can race now and >their "offshore" capabilities. Maybe the races that have been traditionally >done need to be postponed until the water returns. Make some new races that >these boats are made for. Shorter and close in. But don't make the >traditional races shorter and easier because boats and/or skippers aren't >prepared for them. That is not fair to the previous winners. As I told Ray, >if you and your boat are not prepared for a specific race don't do it. Would >you take your U20 in the Fastnet? > >Dan Merriman > > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Re: [GSLYC] re: Solo Endurance Date: 26 Jul 2004 11:11:53 -0600 RETURN TO SENDER ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Ray, > >I agree with many of the things you mentioned. Safety was always a concern >and I know I cancelled some Wed. nights races for that reason that made me >unpopular. Shortening a race for the right reasons is okay as long as it is >done in the correct manner according to the rules. That is my main question >that no one seems to want to answer. Was this done by the rules? > >I agree that we do not want a disaster to happen but remember that nasty >weather conditions were one of things that the founders of this race wanted. >You bring up the Fastnet. How would the racers feel if that race was >shortened to a third of its distance? True, that is an ocean race and the >racers are better prepared. Is that an excuse in the Endurance Cup case? >Don't the racers show up for the Skippers Meeting knowing what the race is >and have their boat and themselves prepared for what the race offers? They >should. I feel it is always the skippers decision to race or bail out. I do >not fault anyone for not starting or completing a race because they or their >boat were not up to the task. I never did the Reynolds Cup in my J92 because >I felt my crew was not up to the task and that they would be very >uncomfortable the whole race. I have not finished other races because my >crew, and sometimes myself, became uncomfortable with the conditions. No >regrets! > >That said, I was never very comfortable with the Endurance Cup for the >safety reasons you bring up. As I keep saying though, that is what the race >is. If no racer feels he is prepared for what it offers then they should not >race and the race should be cancelled due to lack of interest. Remember that >inaugural race. I was told of waves over 10' and winds in the 40's. Only >three of, I believe, 10 boats made it around the first mark. One boat lost a >headsail after it was cut away. Other boats had damage. But two of the >founders completed the race and they said those were the exact conditions >they had envisioned for the race. > >Thanks for your response and the history. I'll ask Clint about that one. > >Dan Merriman > > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darin Christensen" Subject: (utah-sailing) RETURN TO SENDER, ADDRESS UNKNOWN, NO SUCH NUMBER, NO SUCH HOME......... Date: 26 Jul 2004 11:32:01 -0600 At last, the mystery is solved, Elvis lives! ...and to think he sails on the great salt lake..... pass me the peanut butter and banana sandwiches....... * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Doubek Subject: (utah-sailing) Note from the list administrator Date: 26 Jul 2004 12:13:34 -0600 List Members, As I have stated before, I try not to moderate this list, and that has been pretty easy to do. There have not been many discussions that I have felt were inappropriate or unconstructive. I've been watching the Solo Endurance Cup thread with some concern that I might have to step in, and I think it's time to end that thread. I would like to request that any further discussion or debate take place in another forum. I don't know any more about the issue or any ancillary issues than what I've read in this mail list, but it seems that all the constructive facts and opinions have been expressed and it's only going to go downhill from here. As another piece of administrivia... I have NO IDEA why Dave's e-mail is saying RETURN TO SENDER! Dave... did you set up a rule in your mail? Is Darin correct and Elvis has infiltrated the list? Dave, let me know if I need to troubleshoot this! Happy sailing... hope to see you on the water sometime soon, Paul Doubek Utah-Sailing List Administrator pdoubek@xmission.com * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Note from the list administrator Date: 26 Jul 2004 12:29:24 -0600 Paul No, I did not set up any rules on my email. I guess, in my own way, I was trying to do the same thing you just said. I wasn't there that day. I have no facts as to what happened out there. I didn't even bother to read any of the emails after the first couple from Dan. I Just agree with you that this was not the proper forum for this, It was getting unproductive and in my own way I was trying to say enough was enough. Sorry if I was inappropriate. Dave ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >List Members, >As I have stated before, I try not to moderate this list, and that has >been pretty easy to do. There have not been many discussions that I have >felt were inappropriate or unconstructive. I've been watching the Solo >Endurance Cup thread with some concern that I might have to step in, and >I think it's time to end that thread. I would like to request that any >further discussion or debate take place in another forum. I don't know >any more about the issue or any ancillary issues than what I've read in >this mail list, but it seems that all the constructive facts and >opinions have been expressed and it's only going to go downhill from here. > >As another piece of administrivia... I have NO IDEA why Dave's e- mail is >saying RETURN TO SENDER! Dave... did you set up a rule in your mail? Is >Darin correct and Elvis has infiltrated the list? Dave, let me know if I >need to troubleshoot this! > >Happy sailing... hope to see you on the water sometime soon, > >Paul Doubek >Utah-Sailing List Administrator >pdoubek@xmission.com > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bonasa" Subject: (utah-sailing) New guy intro and questions.... Date: 26 Jul 2004 16:26:45 -0600 Just thought I'd say hi, try to talk to a few of the regular sailors, and see if anybody would like to help out a newcomer. My name is Mike, obviously I live in Salt Lake City. I spent 5 years sailing on a Catalina 25' on Lake Michigan (Dad's boat, not mine) and became addicted to sailing. Ended up here, landlocked. Not good. Could never afford a boat on my own so I just figured my sailing days were reduced to the occasional rental when visiting family on the coast. It's a long story but last weekend I ended up with a boat. It's old, it's ugly, and it needs a lot of work, but it's mine. It won't be ready for the water til next Spring, which gives me plenty of time to work on it. Along the way I'm going to have a lot of questions, I hope some if you will be willing to help me out with advice and suggestions. In the meantime, could someone tell me what sailing on the Salt Lake is like. What it's like, good points, bad points, where the good launches are for a fixed keel boat (not my first choice but beggars can't be choosers...), stuff like that. I'd especially like to hear about folks first time sailing on the lake and what their experience was like. How is the current level of the lake? Is it more fun to go north to south or south to north? Also I desperately need a refresher course but couldn't find any classes in the area from the Coast Guard Auxiliary. Does anybody know of any classes happening soon? Well, that's enough for now. If anybody needs a crew on a weekend or week night feel free to email me. I think I remember a few things... Regards, Mike * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Harper Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) New guy intro and questions.... Date: 26 Jul 2004 17:13:45 -0600 One of the best ways to see what the lake is about is to come out to the lake and go sailing. You might want to come out to one of the race days and try to get a crew spot on a boat. Many boats are willing to take people on as crew especially if you have experience. Sailing on Great Salt Lake is like none other I have seen. There are times when the breeze is good but doesn't even touch the water. This makes for a fun and flat sail. The down side is it is hard to see the new wind or where it is coming from. Stories about the "Lake Stink" are inaccurate. It is not the lake that stinks but the shoreline. Once out in the lake away from the land the air is usually fresh and clean unless there is an inversion in the valleys. Another plus is that the traffic on the lake is very low, most people have bought into the stink rumor, so you have much of the lake to yourself. The only serviceable public marina at the time is the one at the South shore. The water at the mouth of the channel is only about five feet deep and dropping. By the time next spring rolls around it should be back up to at least six and hopefully more. I hope this helps. Robert Bonasa wrote: > Just thought I'd say hi, try to talk to a few of the regular sailors, and > see if anybody would like to help out a newcomer. My name is Mike, obviously > I live in Salt Lake City. I spent 5 years sailing on a Catalina 25' on Lake > Michigan (Dad's boat, not mine) and became addicted to sailing. Ended up > here, landlocked. Not good. Could never afford a boat on my own so I just > figured my sailing days were reduced to the occasional rental when visiting > family on the coast. > > It's a long story but last weekend I ended up with a boat. It's old, it's > ugly, and it needs a lot of work, but it's mine. It won't be ready for the > water til next Spring, which gives me plenty of time to work on it. Along > the way I'm going to have a lot of questions, I hope some if you will be > willing to help me out with advice and suggestions. > > In the meantime, could someone tell me what sailing on the Salt Lake is > like. What it's like, good points, bad points, where the good launches are > for a fixed keel boat (not my first choice but beggars can't be > choosers...), stuff like that. I'd especially like to hear about folks first > time sailing on the lake and what their experience was like. > > How is the current level of the lake? Is it more fun to go north to south or > south to north? Also I desperately need a refresher course but couldn't find > any classes in the area from the Coast Guard Auxiliary. Does anybody know of > any classes happening soon? Well, that's enough for now. If anybody needs a > crew on a weekend or week night feel free to email me. I think I remember a > few things... > > Regards, > Mike > > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: > * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > -- Don't be good... HAVE LOTS OF FUN! Robert Harper * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Doubek Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) New guy intro and questions.... Date: 26 Jul 2004 17:33:25 -0600 Hi Mike... welcome. I've been sailing sporadically on the Great Salt Lake since the 1970s and would say that there are probably very few places in the world that would compare. It's got its downsides... the lake level is very low right now and I know the boats that draw more than 5' or 5.5' are having trouble in the marina entrance (I'm sure someone will give you more specifics). You should talk to some of the "old timers" to learn about the weather patterns around the South Shore marina. Under certain conditions the wind can come up with very little warning and create a hazardous condition if you and your boat are not prepared. But you also don't have shipping traffic, personal water craft, water skiers... in fact the only power boats usually found are the Salt Island Adventures tour boat and the ranger's rescue boat. Because of this you can have a quiet on a huge body of water that is probably not found many places. It would probably help if you give the list some details about the size of your boat and how much water it draws. You should also take advantage of the evening seminars that the GSLYC puts on in the winter. They are free, and you can hear some very knowledgeable people discuss things such as weather, racing, cruising, safety, etc on the Great Salt Lake. The YC has been good about posting the schedule and reminders to this list when the time comes. I guess a couple more things about the lake: Brine flies... harmless but they tickle the back of your throat when you inhale them. Mosquitoes... wear lots of repellent at sundown. Spiders... BIG spiders... they're harmless but they freak some people out! Good luck getting back on the water, Paul Bonasa wrote: >Just thought I'd say hi, try to talk to a few of the regular sailors, and >see if anybody would like to help out a newcomer. My name is Mike, obviously >I live in Salt Lake City. I spent 5 years sailing on a Catalina 25' on Lake >Michigan (Dad's boat, not mine) and became addicted to sailing. Ended up >here, landlocked. Not good. Could never afford a boat on my own so I just >figured my sailing days were reduced to the occasional rental when visiting >family on the coast. > >It's a long story but last weekend I ended up with a boat. It's old, it's >ugly, and it needs a lot of work, but it's mine. It won't be ready for the >water til next Spring, which gives me plenty of time to work on it. Along >the way I'm going to have a lot of questions, I hope some if you will be >willing to help me out with advice and suggestions. > >In the meantime, could someone tell me what sailing on the Salt Lake is >like. What it's like, good points, bad points, where the good launches are >for a fixed keel boat (not my first choice but beggars can't be >choosers...), stuff like that. I'd especially like to hear about folks first >time sailing on the lake and what their experience was like. > >How is the current level of the lake? Is it more fun to go north to south or >south to north? Also I desperately need a refresher course but couldn't find >any classes in the area from the Coast Guard Auxiliary. Does anybody know of >any classes happening soon? Well, that's enough for now. If anybody needs a >crew on a weekend or week night feel free to email me. I think I remember a >few things... > >Regards, >Mike > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Shearer" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) New guy intro and questions.... Date: 26 Jul 2004 17:57:02 -0600 Mike Sailing on Great Salt Lake can be absolutely awsome. It can also be dangerous. I have sailed in a multitude of places all over the world and one of my favorite places to sail is Great Salt Lake. It is hard to describe to people the feeling of doing 6 knots hull speed on water that is totally glass. (or in the case of my Hobie 20 - - - double trap, flying a hull doing nearly 15 knots on glass water) sailing on Great Salt Lake (for the most part) is very peacefull. There is no motorboat traffic other than the rescue boats or "Island Serenade". You can sail for miles and miles without crossing the path of another boat. There are only two public marinas on the lake. All the other marinas are private. The two public marinas are Antelope Island marina located on the very north tip of Antelope Island. This is accessed by I-15 exit 335 and then crossing the Davis Causeway to the marina. The other public marina is Great Salt Lake Marina (south shore marina). This is accessed from I-80 exit 104. This marina is the largest of the two and has slips for just over 300 boats. Because of the current water level, which is quite low, the Antelope Island Marina is unusable. This may not be the case next year with spring runoff. Even though the marina is unusable the Antelope Island Park is a great place to visit. I highly recommend it. There are bison, eagles, coyotes, fox, deer and antelope on the island. There is also a nice visitor center and store up there. And the ranch house (the oldest continuous working ranch house in Utah) is a nice visit too. The views are spactacular from the island. South shore marina is still functioning but the water has limited access to the lake to boats drawing 5 feet or less. I have a Capri 30 that draws 5feet 4inches. I can still access the lake but I have to tip my boat way over going through the mouth. The ramp is limiting too to boats drawing no more than 5 feet. Most of us use crane services when lifting our boats in and out of the lake as the salt water is quite caustic to our trailers. Weather at Great Salt Lake is usually mild but when it wants to be severe it can be very severe. Because of the density of the water (15% salt) the waves can hit you with a whallop. Even though waves do not get big by ocean standards they are quite steep, very close together and pack a lot of energy. Waves can get as tall as 8 to 10 feet between trough and crest. Winds hitting 45 to 65 knots are fairly common at the south marina in the spring or during thunderstorms. It seems that at least once a year we get gusts exceeding 100 knots. Most of these strong winds and storms originate out of Tooele and, if you know what to watch for, can be quite predictable. But don't let this scare you away from the lake. The sailing out there is wonderful. You just need to be a little more aware of the conditions around you compared to some other places you may have sailed. Hope this helps some Dave Shearer ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com >Just thought I'd say hi, try to talk to a few of the regular sailors, and >see if anybody would like to help out a newcomer. My name is Mike, obviously >I live in Salt Lake City. I spent 5 years sailing on a Catalina 25' on Lake >Michigan (Dad's boat, not mine) and became addicted to sailing. Ended up >here, landlocked. Not good. Could never afford a boat on my own so I just >figured my sailing days were reduced to the occasional rental when visiting >family on the coast. > >It's a long story but last weekend I ended up with a boat. It's old, it's >ugly, and it needs a lot of work, but it's mine. It won't be ready for the >water til next Spring, which gives me plenty of time to work on it. Along >the way I'm going to have a lot of questions, I hope some if you will be >willing to help me out with advice and suggestions. > >In the meantime, could someone tell me what sailing on the Salt Lake is >like. What it's like, good points, bad points, where the good launches are >for a fixed keel boat (not my first choice but beggars can't be >choosers...), stuff like that. I'd especially like to hear about folks first >time sailing on the lake and what their experience was like. > >How is the current level of the lake? Is it more fun to go north to south or >south to north? Also I desperately need a refresher course but couldn't find >any classes in the area from the Coast Guard Auxiliary. Does anybody know of >any classes happening soon? Well, that's enough for now. If anybody needs a >crew on a weekend or week night feel free to email me. I think I remember a >few things... > >Regards, >Mike > > >* Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: >* http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jana Morgan" Subject: (utah-sailing) Apology Date: 27 Jul 2004 11:06:34 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_029F_01C473C9.C74009A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To All, My apologies to Robert and to everyone offended by my last e-mail. A = lot of bad stuff resulted from 2002, my e-mail included. But finally, an honest dialog has opened and my hope is that enough = resolution will come of it to put 2002 to rest. I hope for your understanding. Jana Morgan ------=_NextPart_000_029F_01C473C9.C74009A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

To All,

My apologies to Robert and to everyone = offended by=20 my last e-mail. A lot of bad stuff resulted from 2002, my e-mail=20 included.

But finally, an honest dialog has = opened and my=20 hope is that enough resolution will come of it to put 2002 to=20 rest.

I hope for your = understanding.

Jana Morgan

------=_NextPart_000_029F_01C473C9.C74009A0-- * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert S. Harper" Subject: (utah-sailing) Wednesday night races Date: 29 Jul 2004 08:00:02 -0600 Results from Wednesday, July 28, 2004 in order Boat Corrected time A Fleet Pack a Lunch 00:37:03 B Fleet Forty Two 00:35:45 Euphoria 00:35:49 Cuervo Especial 00:37:07 Kairos 00:40:17 Narragansett 00:44:05 C Fleet Empty Space 00:36:21 Getaway 00:39:05 Salty Air 00:52:12 Wednesday night series standings: Boat Points A Fleet Pack a Lundh 9 Que Pasa 20 Tomcat 22 B Fleet Forty Two 13 Euphoria 27 Kairos 37 Cuervo Especial 45 Zendo 50 Abraxas 51 Narragansett 52 Dutch Treat 55 Houdini 62 C Fleet Empty Space 29 Salty Air 32 Crew X 33 Getaway 41 Galley I 47 Zig Zag 50 Escape 51 I have not applied throw-outs to the series standings as of yet. Sail fast, live large, and love life. * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert S. Harper" Subject: (utah-sailing) Updated photos Date: 29 Jul 2004 13:20:09 -0600 I have updated my site with photos from last night. You may view then at: http://www.xmission.com/~rharper/sailingpics.html Sail fast, live large, and love life. * Please visit the Utah Sailing Message Board: * http://pub63.ezboard.com/butahsailing * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).