From: travi@juno.com (Jared travis) Subject: [OUTDOORS] JoAnn Whirledge Date: 01 Jun 1998 15:52:04 -0600 We just received 400 of your stupid messages. We do NOT appreciate your wasting our time. If this happens again, we'll try to send you millions of messages too. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Kenison Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] JoAnn Whirledge Date: 01 Jun 1998 17:34:29 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Jared travis wrote: > We just received 400 of your stupid messages. We do NOT appreciate your > wasting our time. If this happens again, we'll try to send you millions > of messages too. Please everyone, stay calm. Threats to retaliate will not help the problem. Obviously this was not done intentionally, and none of us were happy about it. Computers only do what they're told, and when the wrong combination of circumstances gets set up, computers can be very efficient at generating problems. Replies were being generated automatically most of the afternoon Sunday. We stopped it as soon as we noticed it. Be comforted in the knowledge that for every message you got as a list subscriber, I got 2 or 3 or more. Pretty dang annoying, indeed. David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] PLEASE REMOVE JO ANN FROM THE LIST!!! Date: 01 Jun 1998 21:13:32 -0700 Sorry Daemon RedWolf, I didnt have the address for our mailing list owner David Kenison nor was my email anyway directed to you. But I will save your email for ref's. Ken J. " Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me." ------------------------// Ken Jaynes \\---------------------- Email Adress: mailto:outdoors@utw.com Web Pages: http://www.utw.com/~outdoors - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Carlson" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] kelsey's books -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Rep Date: 02 Jun 1998 22:38:47 -0600 TAKE ME OFF THIS MAILING LIST!!!!!!!! I DONT NEED 300 MESSAGES --THANKS -MADKAY@DIMENSIONAL ---------- > From: JoAnn Whirledge > To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] kelsey's books -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply-Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply > Date: Sunday, May 31, 1998 3:33 PM > > I am out of the office until June 9th. > Thank you. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dolores Eggert" Subject: [OUTDOORS] mailing list Date: 03 Jun 1998 10:37:07 -0400 Please remove my name from the mailing list - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Kenison Subject: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 03 Jun 1998 09:30:01 -0600 (MDT) I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the effort to me. I appreciate all who have contributed positively to the list in the past, and wish you all the best in your future outdoor activities in this great state! David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Dalton" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 03 Jun 1998 09:35:07 -0600 Very sad... too bad there are so many people out there who feel like they have to whine about everything. I didn't contribute much to the list, but I enjoyed it. -----Original Message----- >I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the >traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving >the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of >dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the >effort to me. > >I appreciate all who have contributed positively to the list in the past, >and wish you all the best in your future outdoor activities in this great >state! > >---------------------------------------------------- >David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com > My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ > Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD > > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Porcaro" Subject: RE: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 03 Jun 1998 09:39:09 -0600 I too have not had much to say but this is a shame with the outdoor season in full swing. I have enjoyed seeing information from others on hikes and outings in the Utah area. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Larry Dalton > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 9:35 AM > To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... > > > Very sad... too bad there are so many people out there who feel like they > have to whine about everything. I didn't contribute much to the > list, but I > enjoyed it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Kenison > To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > Date: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 9:30 AM > Subject: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... > > > >I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the > >traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving > >the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of > >dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the > >effort to me. > > > >I appreciate all who have contributed positively to the list in the past, > >and wish you all the best in your future outdoor activities in this great > >state! > > > >---------------------------------------------------- > >David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com > > My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ > > Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD > > > > > >- > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James A. Miller" Subject: [OUTDOORS] too bad Date: 03 Jun 1998 09:46:26 -0600 (MDT) ----- Begin Included Message ----- From owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com Wed Jun 3 09:39 MDT 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3007.0 Importance: Normal I too have not had much to say but this is a shame with the outdoor season in full swing. I have enjoyed seeing information from others on hikes and outings in the Utah area. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Larry Dalton > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 9:35 AM > To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... > > > Very sad... too bad there are so many people out there who feel like they > have to whine about everything. I didn't contribute much to the > list, but I > enjoyed it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Kenison > To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > Date: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 9:30 AM > Subject: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... > > > >I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the > >traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving > >the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of > >dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the > >effort to me. > > > >I appreciate all who have contributed positively to the list in the past, > >and wish you all the best in your future outdoor activities in this great > >state! > > > >---------------------------------------------------- > >David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com > > My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ > > Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD > > > > > >- > > > > > - > > - I agree... too bad indeed. I mean I didn't use it much, but it was a nice resource when I did. Jimmy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: edesousa@bank-banque-canada.ca (Eurico de Sousa) Subject: RE: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 03 Jun 1998 11:45:06 -0400 Ditto for me. Whatever info was posted was interesting and useful in planning for next year's trip to Utah. Eurico de Sousa > > I too have not had much to say but this is a shame with the outdoor season > in full swing. I have enjoyed seeing information from others on hikes and > outings in the Utah area. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Larry Dalton > > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 9:35 AM > > To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... > > > > > > Very sad... too bad there are so many people out there who feel like they > > have to whine about everything. I didn't contribute much to the > > list, but I > > enjoyed it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Kenison > > To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > > Date: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 9:30 AM > > Subject: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... > > > > > > >I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the > > >traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving > > >the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of > > >dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the > > >effort to me. > > > > > >I appreciate all who have contributed positively to the list in the past, > > >and wish you all the best in your future outdoor activities in this great > > >state! > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------- > > >David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com > > > My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ > > > Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD > > > > > > > > >- > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard T. De Van" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 03 Jun 1998 10:52:41 -0600 Thanks for all your work, David. It is too bad the list did not take off. Best of luck to you and all on the list. Rick Richard T. De Van rdevan@rtd1.com Salt Lake City, Utah The Utah Sports and Recreation Page http://www.rtd1.com/utahsport/index.html RTD-ONE http://www.rtd1.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeanne Doomen Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 03 Jun 1998 21:49:18 +0200 At 09:30 3-06-1998 -0600, you wrote: >I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the >traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving >the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of >dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the >effort to me. David, of course we were all frustrated by the recent troubles - but I've seen them happening on other lists too and I am sure mos of the subscribers are not blaming you. I realize the list has not been very active. but whenever someone asked for advice, he or she got it. I have always thought that the more serious hikers/backpackers on this list were cautious: they/we didn't want to point out the best places to the.. eh.. tourists. I would hate to see this list go down. tell us, what would convince you to have it continue? would it be more traffic? please, let us at least discuss this issue among ourselves before you make us stop. best wishes, Jeanne Doomen http://www.xs4all.nl/~doobeau - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Jenkins/Susie McDonald" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 03 Jun 1998 17:46:32 -0400 Just to throw in my 2 cents worth. I am not sure that it is accurate to judge the impact of the list by the actual traffic on it. Many of us I am sure read all the stuff, and comment when appropriate. I know that the recent problem has been frustrating, but I think I was the first to notice it on Sunday afternoon, and while it was frustrating, we got it fixed. Or rather David did. Anyway, the list has been enjoyable to me, and I would hate to see it go. But am I willing to take it on? Not until I finish my committment to my newsletter duties. Such is about all the fun I can stand. Roger Roger Jenkins/Susie McDonald Co-Editors: the Tennes-Sierran Our newsletter is available at: www.cs.utk.edu/~dixon/hbgsierra.html -----Original Message----- >At 09:30 3-06-1998 -0600, you wrote: >>I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the >>traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving >>the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of >>dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the >>effort to me. > >David, > >of course we were all frustrated by the recent troubles - but I've seen >them happening on other lists too and I am sure mos of the subscribers are >not blaming you. > >I realize the list has not been very active. but whenever someone asked for >advice, he or she got it. > >I have always thought that the more serious hikers/backpackers on this list >were cautious: they/we didn't want to point out the best places to the.. >eh.. tourists. > >I would hate to see this list go down. >tell us, what would convince you to have it continue? >would it be more traffic? > >please, let us at least discuss this issue among ourselves before you make >us stop. > >best wishes, >Jeanne Doomen >http://www.xs4all.nl/~doobeau > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Fwd: [OUTDOORS] mailing list Date: 03 Jun 1998 20:31:30 EDT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_896920290_boundary Content-ID: <0_896920290@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII <> --part0_896920290_boundary Content-ID: <0_896920290@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za03.mx.aol.com (rly-za03.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.99]) by air-za02.mail.aol.com (v43.25) with SMTP; Wed, 03 Jun 1998 10:42:48 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-za03.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id KAA05861; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yhEk0-0004ZI-00; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:42:12 -0600 Received: from (shore.intercom.net) [204.183.208.11] by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yhEjx-0004Yo-00; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:42:09 -0600 Received: from default (s418.intercom.net [204.183.209.232]) by shore.intercom.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08290 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806031442.KAA08290@shore.intercom.net> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 Sender: owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please remove my name from the mailing list - --part0_896920290_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kathy & Lynn Subject: [OUTDOORS] Beautiful UTAH Date: 03 Jun 1998 18:58:42 -0600 I want to make one last reply before the list goes down. A few weeks ago, we wanted to go from Provo to Logan, bypassing the freeway construction totally. We went up Provo canyon, past slides and all. The leaves were just coming out on the trees in this higher area. We drove through beautiful springtime Heber and Midway, then into Park City. We went around through Morgan, etc. Henefer since East Canyon Reservoir was still closed. From Weber canyon, we took Trappers Loop into Huntsville, then we drove to Liberty, and went on dirt roads into Avon and Paradise into Logan. This was beautiful springtime at it's best. What a lovely area we live in. We had six children with us, and they enjoyed every hour that we spent driving. Sometimes, we can't get to places and hike, but this way, we can scope out different bike rides, hikes, etc. for the future. This is the most wonderful place on Earth. Within five or ten minutes, we can be in the forest, trees, cooler climate. How lucky we are. Thanks for the list, so that we could read about other's experiences with this great State. Thank you, Kathy Barlow - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Walters" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 04 Jun 1998 07:09:30 PDT That is great if you could, I feel it to be a great service. Thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randall R. Arabie" Subject: [OUTDOORS] (Fwd) Dark Canyon Wilderness Area Date: 05 Jun 1998 08:02:51 +0000 Forwarded message: I am trying to plan a backpacking trip in Utah for November '98. My group size will be 2 to 6 persons and a dog. My first idea was the Dark Canyon Wilderness Area, however, I've found it difficult to find published information on the area and backpacking oportunities there. Do you have any advice or leads on this area. I am in the very early stages of planning so I need basic information, like: 1. Where are the trailheads and are they accessible to other than 4X4 or high clearance vehicles. 2. Are weather conditions in November typcially conducive to backpacking. I understand that this will vary greatly with elevation. 3. Are permits required. 4. Are you aware of any guidebooks or maps (other than USGS Topos) that cover the area. My second choice of destination is the Grand Gulch Primitive area, which I have found more inforamtion on. Any suggestions there would be appreciated as well. Thanks in advance for your help, I am looking foreward to hearing from you. Your help is greatly appreciated. Randall R. Arabie Senior Staff Scientist EnecoTech, Inc. 1580 Lincoln Street, Ste. 1000 Denver, CO 80203 randyarabie@enecotech.com (303) 861-2200 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Eisele Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 06 Jun 1998 21:48:26 -0700 Seems a shame. No much traffic can be good, kinda like meeting someone on a wilderness trail. Let it live if you still have the energy. Accidents happen, don't let it spoil a good thing. Bob Eisele, San Diego David Kenison wrote: > > I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the > traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving > the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of > dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the > effort to me. > > I appreciate all who have contributed positively to the list in the past, > and wish you all the best in your future outdoor activities in this great > state! > > ---------------------------------------------------- > David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com > My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ > Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randall R. Arabie" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... Date: 08 Jun 1998 08:41:12 +0000 Letting it go? I just signed up. What a shame. I've just moved out west (to Denver) and have only made two trips over to Utah. I was hoping to get leads on and offer accounts of my experiences in the Utah backcountry. > Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 21:48:26 -0700 > From: Bob Eisele > Organization: @Home Network > To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... > Reply-to: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com > Seems a shame. No much traffic can be good, kinda like meeting someone > on a wilderness trail. Let it live if you still have the energy. > Accidents happen, don't let it spoil a good thing. > > Bob Eisele, San Diego > > David Kenison wrote: > > > > I've decided to shut the "UtahOutdoors" list down. In recent months, the > > traffic on the list has been very minimal; it's certainly not achieving > > the goals I'd hoped for the list. And the problems and frustrations of > > dealing with the list (especially this most recent one) are not worth the > > effort to me. > > > > I appreciate all who have contributed positively to the list in the past, > > and wish you all the best in your future outdoor activities in this great > > state! > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com > > My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ > > Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD > > > > - > > - > Randall R. Arabie Senior Staff Scientist EnecoTech, Inc. 1580 Lincoln Street, Ste. 1000 Denver, CO 80203 randyarabie@enecotech.com (303) 861-2200 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Kenison Subject: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... STAYING Date: 08 Jun 1998 09:49:53 -0600 (MDT) After several personal notes begging me to reconsider, and after the positive response of messages sent to the list, I guess we'll try a little while longer. I appreciate all the encouragement. ========================================= FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO LEAVE THE LIST: Please send a message to "majordomo@xmission.com" with this in the message body: UNSUBSCRIBE UTAH-OUTDOORS Or send a personal note to me and I'll help remove you. ========================================= For the rest of you, thanks for sticking with us. As always, we encourage participation. We'd love to hear your reports of trips: dayhikes, longer backpacks, bike routes, river rafting, family activities, fishing holes, etc. Anything related to Utah's wonderful outdoor opportunities! And encourage your outdoor friends to join us. We would love to have more input to the list! David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gcburt" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... STAYING Date: 08 Jun 1998 12:11:13 -0500 Thanks for staying on for a while longer. Garth - way down in Corpus Christ, TX -----Original Message----- >After several personal notes begging me to reconsider, and after the >positive response of messages sent to the list, I guess we'll try a little >while longer. I appreciate all the encouragement. > >========================================= >FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO LEAVE THE LIST: >Please send a message to "majordomo@xmission.com" with this in the > message body: UNSUBSCRIBE UTAH-OUTDOORS >Or send a personal note to me and I'll help remove you. >========================================= > >For the rest of you, thanks for sticking with us. As always, we encourage >participation. We'd love to hear your reports of trips: dayhikes, longer >backpacks, bike routes, river rafting, family activities, fishing holes, >etc. Anything related to Utah's wonderful outdoor opportunities! > >And encourage your outdoor friends to join us. We would love to have more >input to the list! > >---------------------------------------------------- >David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com > My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ > Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD > > > > > > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Gillen" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... STAYING - Trip Report Date: 08 Jun 1998 10:18:21 -0600 Hi All! Dave, thanks for keeping the list. So as not to waste bandwidth, I'll give a report on my recent trip to = Goblin Valley. Located in souther Utah about an hour SW of Green River is a small State = Parked called Goblin Valley. It gets pretty hot there in the summer so we = went in early May. You may reserve a campsite or camp in nearby BLM land. = We opted for a reserved site (it was hard to get - someone cancelled) = beacuse I was taking my family and a new pop-up trailer (hey, I also = backpack but the wife doesn't) Anyway, the campsite is literally a parking = space in front of a flat area with a picknic table and BBQ. ALL the = campsites are lined up right next to eachother, no trees (its quite the = desert), no privacy. Oh well. We set up while the kids hiked. There are plenty of trails and hikes in = and around the campgrounds. Its warm and windy a lot. The campground sits = about a mile away from the "Valley of the Goblins" (spoken with a Yoda = imitation voice :-). The campgrounds sport flush toilets and hot shower = (one for each sex). There is also an RV dump and water filling spout with = a hose bib on it. Everything else is dirt. The Valley of the Goblins is so named for the hundreds of sandstone = formations that line the valley floor. The valley itself is about 1 x 1.5 = miles. The formations range in height from about 5 feet to 15 feet, either = individually or grouped together. Sometimes close together, sometimes = yards apart. Its is a kid's hide-n-seek dream come true. The valley is quite interesting with all the "Goblins" and the kids loved = it. We took a set of laser tag and had a blast. I also took serveral = pictures that came out great, especially the sunset shots. The road from the campground to the valley is paved and approaches the = valley from the NE (I think). The parking lot at the valley has a covered = observation deck with picknic tables and a pit toilet. All in all it was a fun trip. The kids were gone much of the day hiking = and climbing. The wind picked up on Sat eve (it stung my bare legs on a = hike it was so strong) and didn't let up till Sun afternoon. Luckily we = were in the camper as others' belongings blew down the road (tents and = all!). Hope this helps someone thinking about going there. Do a Yahoo! search and = you'll find more info and some pictures. I don't have the URLs handy. Share and Enjoy! Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeanne Doomen Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Going, going... STAYING Date: 08 Jun 1998 19:23:04 +0200 At 09:49 8-06-1998 -0600, David wrote: >After several personal notes begging me to reconsider, and after the >positive response of messages sent to the list, I guess we'll try a little >while longer. I appreciate all the encouragement. > I am so glad you'll give it another try. This year I won't be able to go to Utah. If people have questions I can answer, I will do so. Thanks, David, Jeanne http://www.xs4all.nl/~doobeau - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gcburt" Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re: Goblin Valley Date: 08 Jun 1998 15:21:43 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A4_01BD92F1.24D8BF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- Hi All! Dave, thanks for keeping the list. So as not to waste bandwidth, I'll give a report on my recent trip to = Goblin Valley. Thanks Mike for the report on Goblin Valley. I looked up the park on a = "Utah Remote" URL and found two pictures with snow covering the area. = What are you trying to do to me - make me so home-sick I leave work and = head for Utah. Like the first time I looked up USU's home page and = right there was Old Main with the Wellsville mountains in the background = - I almost bawled. For many years we made an annual trek back to Utah and must have stayed = overnight at Wilson's Arch 6 or 8 times. If we'd know we could have = taken a different road and stopped at Goblin Valley and the kids could = have seen something new. Enjoyed your report Garth and Linda Burt=20 Corpus Christi, TX (for three more weeks) ------=_NextPart_000_01A4_01BD92F1.24D8BF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
-----Original Message-----
From: = Mike Gillen -=20 going...=20 STAYING - Trip Report

Hi All!

Dave, thanks for keeping the list.

So = as not=20 to waste bandwidth, I'll give a report on my recent trip to Goblin=20 Valley.

Thanks Mike for the report = on Goblin=20 Valley.  I looked up the park on a "Utah Remote" URL and = found=20 two pictures with snow covering the area.  What are you trying to = do to me=20 - make me so home-sick I leave work and head for Utah.  Like the = first time=20 I looked up USU's home page and right there was Old Main with the = Wellsville=20 mountains in the background - I almost bawled.
 
For many years we made an = annual trek=20 back to Utah and must have stayed overnight at Wilson's Arch 6 or 8 = times. =20 If we'd know we could have taken a different road and stopped at Goblin = Valley=20 and the kids could have seen something new.
 
Enjoyed your = report
 
Garth and Linda Burt =
Corpus Christi, TX (for = three more=20 weeks)
 
------=_NextPart_000_01A4_01BD92F1.24D8BF00-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeanne Doomen Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re: Goblin Valley Date: 08 Jun 1998 21:02:04 +0200 At 10:18 8-06-1998 -0600, Mike wrote: You may reserve a campsite or camp in nearby BLM land. We opted for a reserved site (it was hard to get - someone cancelled) beacuse I was taking my family and a new pop-up trailer (hey, I also backpack but the wife doesn't) Anyway, the campsite is literally a parking space in front of a flat area with a picknic table and BBQ. ALL the campsites are lined up right next to eachother, no trees (its quite the desert), no privacy. Oh well. I have often popped in there. Because the goblins are - well..- really 'neat'. I have also seen this camping site and thought I wouldn't be caught dead camping there because of the lack of privacy at the same time acknowledging that for a BLM campground there _is_ a lot of space and it is pretty luxurious too. For those who want more privacy: continue on the road to Bell - there is a beautiful camping spot there. Or drive on even further. I think what is spoiling Goblin Valley now is the busses with the tourists who drop down on the goblins, take their pics and then have a very loud picnic from the viewpoint. Last time I was there was last september. The weather was cold, there had been a lot of rain and although a bus had just arrived most folks stayed as close to the picnic spot as they could. So: go there if you can avoid the crowds. It's beautiful. Jeanne http://www.xs4all.nl/~doobeau - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jennifer Earnshaw" Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re: Goblin Valley Date: 08 Jun 1998 13:39:26 -0600 My two cents on Goblin Valley: -Take a hike up one of the slot canyons that are right next to Goblin = Valley (Bell Canyon, Little Wild Horse Canyon (?) ,etc.=20 -There are many private and very nice camping spots several miles further = west than Goblin Valley on the same dirt road -Check your calendar and time your Goblin Valley trip for a full moon. = This makes for incredible fun among the Goblins at night. =20 --Jennifer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jennifer Earnshaw" Subject: [OUTDOORS] Astronomical Observation Tunnels Date: 08 Jun 1998 14:13:26 -0600 Over Memorial Weekend we went driving and camping north and west of the = Great Salt Lake. We headed west from I-15 by Brigham City, stopping at = Thiokol (interesting for 15 minutes) to see their rocket display then to = the Golden Spike National Park to see the steam trains. We wandered = around on the back roads (dirt but very good condition) until we ended up = in the very north, west corner of the state. We camped in a beautiful = green valley north of Lynn (that's a town of 3 farm houses) with good = streams and all the privacy one could ask for on Memorial Weekend (only = saw one other camper all weekend) . Eventually we headed south again = through Grouse Creek (gas station we were happy to see) and directly down = to Wendover on I-80. There were many interesting stops for train buffs = along the way but one stop that I would like more information about.=20 About 2 hours north of I-80 out there west of the Salt Lake there was = something marked on my map called Astronomical Observation Tunnels. No = signs and several miles off the main road we found these tunnels which = were huge concrete tubes positioned to form an X. In each of the tunnels = there were many holes cut which look up toward the sky. I think I = remember reading something about these tunnels years ago that each tube is = for a season and the holes aim towards certain constellations, planets, = etc. The problem is there are no markings on these tubes so one doesn't = know what one is looking at and even which tunnel is right for which = season. Does anyone have information on these tunnels? I haven't yet = asked places like Hansen Planetarium. I can give more specific directions = to these places if anyone is interested. --Jennifer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kathy & Lynn Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re: Goblin Valley Date: 08 Jun 1998 16:07:37 -0600 We were told Goblin Valley was the best, so we went there last year on our way home from Capitol Reef. The dirt washboard about did us in, as we were pulling a tent trailer! When we got there, it was really hot and REALLY windy. The campground was just like it was described earlier. Lots of dirt that the kids would have loved, but not mom. The temp was over 100 then in August, so we picniced at the view area, then let the kids play for a while on the goblins, then made the decision to not camp there. It was so hot, that we really needed shade, so we faced the washboard road going out. It is a truly baren area with no trees at all. The laser tag sounds fun, though, and it would probably be better when the weather is cooler. Garth, Where is Wilson's Arch? Kathy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard T. De Van" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Astronomical Observation Tunnels Date: 08 Jun 1998 16:31:05 -0600 Thanks, David, for sticking around! Jennifer, those are the Sun Tunnels - they line up with the solstice sunrises (and sunsets, I think). I cannot remember what the other holes are for, though. This brings up a related subject - art objects and GSL. I can only think of two others - Spiral Jetty and that unsightly tree (JMO). I also remember a Cadillac Ranch-type display up around Park Valley a few years ago - one of those places where someone planted a row of automobiles, sort of post-Modern folk art. Does anyone know if that is still there? There are probably more sculptures I am not thinking of off the top of my head. Rick -- Richard T. De Van rdevan@rtd1.com Salt Lake City, Utah RTD-ONE http://www.rtd1.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kathy & Lynn Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Astronomical Observation Tunnels Date: 08 Jun 1998 16:49:04 -0600 Can anyone give directions to the Sun Tunnels? My husband worked at the Great Salt Lake a few years ago when the water was low, and the Spiral Jetty was out of the water, almost empty. Can you even see it without flying over the lake? Are there any merits to driving the Burr Trail? We started on it by mistake, then turned around, not knowing how far it goes, etc. Kathy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gcburt" Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re: Goblin Valley & Wilson Arch Date: 09 Jun 1998 07:29:51 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD9378.63DC9140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- KATHY SAYS: We were told Goblin Valley was the best, <> = The temp was over 100 then in August, so we picniced at the view area, = then let the kids play for a while on the goblins, then made the = decision to not camp there. <>=20 Garth responds: Developing interest yesterday, I looked at about a = dozen Internet pages on Goblin Valley. They all seemed to say don't = visit in the summer months. One page had two pictures with snow = covering the valley, and it made me wished I was back home - so I could = see and feel snow each year. Sounds like the best time for a visit is = at night under a full moon. Anyway it would have been a change from the = route we took home each year. KATHY continues: Garth, Where is Wilson's Arch? Garth responds: Wilson Arch is right on highway 191, about halfway = between Moab and Monticello. There isn't actually any camping area, but = the road has widened resting places. We've seen a 4-6 trucks parked = with resting drivers, and we've put up the tent trailer and stayed just = overnight about a half-dozen times through the years. Linda always got = nervous when I took the kids up in the arch, but the view East was = breathtaking and the kids also enjoyed the "cave."=20 In the years we went through "four-corners" we could have went over and = up to Hanksville, on to the goblins for an overnight and on up through = Price the next day before it got hot (but I didn't know about Goblin = Valley until yesterday). Garth ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD9378.63DC9140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
-----Original Message-----
From: = Kathy &=20 Lynn - Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 17:13 PM
Subject: Goblin=20 Valley

KATHY SAYS:  We were told Goblin Valley was the best, = <<snipped text>> The temp was over = 100 then in=20 August, so we picniced at the view area, then let the kids play for a = while on=20 the goblins, then made the decision to not camp there. <<snipped text>>
 
Garth=20 responds:  Developing interest yesterday, I looked at about a = dozen=20 Internet pages on Goblin Valley.  They all seemed to say don't = visit in the=20 summer months.  One page had two pictures with snow covering the = valley,=20 and it made me wished I was back home - so I could see and feel snow = each=20 year.  Sounds like the best time for a visit is at night under a = full=20 moon.  Anyway it would have been a change from the route we took = home each=20 year.

KATHY continues:  Garth, Where is Wilson's Arch?
 
Garth responds:  = Wilson Arch is=20 right on highway 191, about halfway between Moab and Monticello.  = There=20 isn't actually any camping area, but the road has widened resting = places. =20 We've seen a 4-6 trucks parked with resting drivers, and we've put up = the tent=20 trailer and stayed just overnight about a half-dozen times through the=20 years.  Linda always got nervous when I took the kids up in the = arch, but=20 the view East was breathtaking and the kids also enjoyed the=20 "cave." 
 
In the = years we went=20 through "four-corners" we could have went over and up to = Hanksville,=20 on to the goblins for an overnight and on up through Price the next day = before=20 it got hot (but I didn't know about Goblin Valley until = yesterday).
 
Garth
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD9378.63DC9140-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Terri Smith PlanB John Horn Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Astronomical Observation Tunnels Date: 09 Jun 1998 08:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Jennifer, Could you please not line wrap in your emails. It makes for a very long line that is difficult for some of us to read. And your last email had such good information in it, too. I want to read every word. Terri planb@xmission.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randall R. Arabie" Subject: [OUTDOORS] Dark Canyon Wilderness Area Date: 09 Jun 1998 08:34:58 +0000 I am trying to plan a backpacking trip in Utah for November '98. My group size will be 2 to 6 persons and a dog. My first idea was the Dark Canyon Wilderness Area, however, I've found it difficult to find published information on the area and backpacking oportunities there. Do you have any advice or leads on this area. I am in the very early stages of planning so I need basic information, like: 1. Where are the trailheads and are they accessible to other than 4X4 or high clearance vehicles. 2. Are weather conditions in November typcially conducive to backpacking. I understand that this will vary greatly with elevation. 3. Are permits required. 4. Are you aware of any guidebooks or maps (other than USGS Topos) that cover the area. My second choice of destination is the Grand Gulch Primitive area, which I have found more inforamtion on. Any suggestions there would be appreciated as well. Thanks in advance for your help, I am looking forward to hearing from you. Your help is greatly appreciated. Randall R. Arabie Denver, CO randyarabie@enecotech.com rrarabie@idcomm.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moe Harley Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Astronomical Observation Tunnels Date: 09 Jun 1998 16:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Hi folks, never posted here before but ive got a question. (don't know if this is the right place to ask but since were on the subject i'll give it a shot) ok sorry for being a little unclear here, but i remember seeing large statue-like sculpture somewhere off the side of the salt flats. From what I remember its fairly big with large spheres and such. We were travelling west, towards Wendover. (Cant remember what interstate that is, I-80 if i remember correctly) Anyhow its just general curiosity, I was in a carload of people when we passed by it and everyone was wondering what it was, why it was there, ect. Thanks in advance for any info. :) P.S. Would appreciate any info on good camp sites in the american fork area, i went over to the uinta forest, (by timp. cave) and enjoyed the camp spot, but they charged me an arm and a leg. And its still quite cold there at nights. Thanks. -Moeser - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jennifer Earnshaw" Subject: [OUTDOORS] Tree of Life Date: 09 Jun 1998 17:04:32 -0600 Many have wondered similar questions. It is called the Tree of Utah. See = the site www.citysearchslc.com/E/E/SLCUT/0000/06/11 for a better descriptio= n and a photo. --Jennifer >>> Moe Harley 06/09 4:56 PM >>> Hi folks, never posted here before but ive got a question. (don't know if this is the right place to ask but since were on the subject i'll give it a shot) ok sorry for being a little unclear here, but i remember seeing=20 large statue-like sculpture somewhere off the side of the salt flats.=20 From what I remember its fairly big with large spheres and such. We were travelling west, towards Wendover. (Cant remember what interstate that is, I-80 if i remember correctly) Anyhow its just general curiosity, I was in a carload of people when we passed by it and everyone was wondering what it was, why it was there, ect. Thanks in advance for any info. :) P.S. Would appreciate any info on good camp sites in the american fork area, i went over to the uinta forest, (by timp. cave) and enjoyed the camp spot, but they charged me an arm and a leg. And its still quite cold there at nights. Thanks. -Moeser - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Deidra Walpole / Bruce Wright Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Dark Canyon Wilderness Area Date: 09 Jun 1998 15:52:13 -0700 Randall R. Arabie wrote: > > I am trying to plan a backpacking trip in Utah for November '98. My > group size will be 2 to 6 persons and a dog. My first idea was the > Dark Canyon Wilderness Area, however, I've found it difficult to find > published information on the area and backpacking oportunities there. My name is Bruce. My wife and I just finished a six day 38 mile backpack down the Paria River. It was incredible. We didn't see another human for 4 of those days. It is a BLM Wilderness area and dogs are allowed at this point. For basic info go to: http://www.for.nau.edu/paria-permits/pariainfo.html It is a geologic dream of a hike, lots of slot canyons, springs. You start high at Whitehouse Trailhead and essentially walk down the river to Lees Ferry at the Colorado River. You can leave your car at Lees Ferry and get a shuttle from the locals to the trailhead. If you decide to do this write me and I can recommend some names because the BLM won't (insurance reasons) > > Do you have any advice or leads on this area. I am in the very early > stages of planning so I need basic information, like: > > 1. Where are the trailheads and are they accessible to other than > 4X4 or high clearance vehicles. > > 2. Are weather conditions in November typcially conducive to > backpacking. I understand that this will vary greatly with > elevation. > > 3. Are permits required. > > 4. Are you aware of any guidebooks or maps (other than USGS Topos) > that cover the area. > > My second choice of destination is the Grand Gulch Primitive area, > which I have found more inforamtion on. Any suggestions there would > be appreciated as well. Agreat loop hike is to go in at Kane Gulch, down to Grand gulch and back up and out Bullet Canyon. Cedar Mesa is one of our favorite areas. Great canyon hiking, incredible Anasazi sites, glyphs everywhere. > > Thanks in advance for your help, I am looking forward to hearing > from you. Your help is greatly appreciated. > > Randall R. Arabie > Denver, CO > > randyarabie@enecotech.com > rrarabie@idcomm.com > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Jenkins/Susie McDonald" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Dark Canyon Wilderness Area Date: 09 Jun 1998 22:38:35 -0400 Ok, here is the deal. first, Nov weather could be iffy at best. Especially in the upper elevations of the hike. Also, days will be shorter and nites longer. A bunch of us did a hike from the lower part, going in on the Sundance "trail" (very rough 1500' ft descent. And came out Woodenshoe Canyon. We did that in 9 days, but that left lots of time to explore, and throw in 2.5 layover days (one to go to the lake at the bottom of Sundance, one to explore Youngs Canyon and a half day at Black Steer, and another full day (almost) at Cherry ? in Upper Woodenshoe. Plan on about 4 hours for the car shuttle. There are books with information, and plan on taking your time, but it was nowhere near as tough as our most recent canyon trip: http://www.kaibab.org/happy/gctr9805.htm If you want some more details, email me directly. Roger Roger A. Jenkins Co-Editor: Tennes-Sierran The Tennes-Sieran is available in PDF format at: www.cs.utk.edu/~dixon/hbgsierra.html -----Original Message----- I am trying to plan a backpacking trip in Utah for November '98. My group size will be 2 to 6 persons and a dog. My first idea was the Dark Canyon Wilderness Area, however, I've found it difficult to find published information on the area and backpacking oportunities there. Do you have any advice or leads on this area. I am in the very early stages of planning so I need basic information, like: 1. Where are the trailheads and are they accessible to other than 4X4 or high clearance vehicles. 2. Are weather conditions in November typcially conducive to backpacking. I understand that this will vary greatly with elevation. 3. Are permits required. 4. Are you aware of any guidebooks or maps (other than USGS Topos) that cover the area. My second choice of destination is the Grand Gulch Primitive area, which I have found more inforamtion on. Any suggestions there would be appreciated as well. Thanks in advance for your help, I am looking forward to hearing from you. Your help is greatly appreciated. Randall R. Arabie Denver, CO randyarabie@enecotech.com rrarabie@idcomm.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randall R. Arabie" Subject: [OUTDOORS] Dark Canyon Wilderness Area Date: 09 Jun 1998 08:34:58 +0000 I am trying to plan a backpacking trip in Utah for November '98. My group size will be 2 to 6 persons and a dog. My first idea was the Dark Canyon Wilderness Area, however, I've found it difficult to find published information on the area and backpacking oportunities there. Do you have any advice or leads on this area. I am in the very early stages of planning so I need basic information, like: 1. Where are the trailheads and are they accessible to other than 4X4 or high clearance vehicles. 2. Are weather conditions in November typcially conducive to backpacking. I understand that this will vary greatly with elevation. 3. Are permits required. 4. Are you aware of any guidebooks or maps (other than USGS Topos) that cover the area. My second choice of destination is the Grand Gulch Primitive area, which I have found more inforamtion on. Any suggestions there would be appreciated as well. Thanks in advance for your help, I am looking forward to hearing from you. Your help is greatly appreciated. Randall R. Arabie Denver, CO randyarabie@enecotech.com rrarabie@idcomm.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Terri Smith PlanB John Horn Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Astronomical Observation Tunnels Date: 09 Jun 1998 08:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Jennifer, Could you please not line wrap in your emails. It makes for a very long line that is difficult for some of us to read. And your last email had such good information in it, too. I want to read every word. Terri planb@xmission.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Kenison Subject: [OUTDOORS] Hike - Deseret Peak Date: 10 Jun 1998 08:36:34 -0600 (MDT) Thanks to Bill for this report (remember that you have to post from the same address you're subscribed from!). I really love this kind of "hike report" - keep 'em coming! -DK ---------- Forwarded message ---------- BOUNCE utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com: Non-member submission from [Bill Lawrence ] Well since I'm new to this page I thought I'd give a description of a hike we just took to Deseret Peak. It is part of the Deseret Peak Wilderness area in the Stansbury Moutains. We Left May 22 from SLC and came home Saturday the 23rd. This was a prep hike for our future planned hike to hike Explorer Peak in the Uintas later this summer. Anyway, to reach the trail head you head South out of Grantsville, Utah for a few miles to the South Willow Canyon turnoff. You drive clear to the end of this road. There are several campsites in the upper loop with tables etc. This year there was still approx. 4' of snow at the top so we started a little lower. The trail head begins right at the top of the loop. We were hiking in snow the whole way. At first It was great for hiking because it was stiff enough for us to stay on top. The trail splits further up (I'm not sure on the distance), heading North will take you to South Willow Lake the other way (South) to hike the peak. There is a small sign that marks the trail. We headed up the peak trail. We hiked in to just about 3/4 of a mile from what I call the big saddle, and set up camp. Some parts of the hike were difficult because we were sinking in the snow. The next morning, with the colder night the snow was great for hiking again. We reached the peak around 11:30 AM. There were a couple of guys that beat us to the peak that day using cross country skis with skins, using a different route. The view from the top is great. The peak is 11,031 feet. To the West you see Skull Valley, North East the Great Salt Lake and to the East the Wasatch Mountains can be seen over the Oquirrh Mountains. The hike back was most enjoyable. There are large open spring snow fields to slide down. We hiked out and were back to SLC by 3:00 pm. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Kenison Subject: [OUTDOORS] Capitol Reef Date: 23 Jun 1998 06:26:07 -0600 (MDT) There's an article in this morning's Tribune about Capitol Reef National Park: http://www.sltrib.com/06231998/Outdoors/39912.htm I confess to not having spent much time in this area. The article descibes some interesting features. Anybody have any experiences hiking in the area? David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ElBongo Subject: [OUTDOORS] Any Suggestions? Date: 29 Jun 1998 23:59:24 -0700 (PDT) My 2 friends and I are interested in a week long trip to Utah, early September. What we're interested in doing is catching fish, canoeing (class II or slower), camping on the river, and a little hiking. Awesome scenery is a must. Anyone have any suggestions? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randall R. Arabie" Subject: [OUTDOORS] Re: Elbongo Date: 30 Jun 1998 07:44:34 +0000 I have a friend who did a three day / two night canoe trip on the White River on the Colorado & Utah border. I'm not sure of the fishing but he was impressed with the scenery. Randall R. Arabie Senior Staff Scientist EnecoTech, Inc. 1580 Lincoln Street, Ste. 1000 Denver, CO 80203 randyarabie@enecotech.com (303) 861-2200 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Kenison Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Any Suggestions? Date: 30 Jun 1998 09:46:40 -0600 (MDT) This reply came from a non-subscriber; I was not aware of this list for Utah fishermen: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- If you are primarily interested in fishing try the discussion at fishwest@lists.xmission.com. This group will know where the fishing is hot and maybe some about the scenery. Or try the website at www.xmission.com/~ducarl/fishwest.com. -jim ElBongo wrote: > My 2 friends and I are interested in a week long trip to Utah, early > September. What we're interested in doing is catching fish, canoeing > (class II or slower), camping on the river, and a little hiking. > Awesome scenery is a must. Anyone have any suggestions? > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Kenison Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] Any Suggestions? Date: 30 Jun 1998 09:48:25 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Jim wrote: > If you are primarily interested in fishing try the discussion at > fishwest@lists.xmission.com. This group will know where the fishing is > hot and maybe some about the scenery. Or try the website at > www.xmission.com/~ducarl/fishwest.com. Oops - the correct URL is: www.xmission.com/~ducarl/fishwest/ David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William Hoffman" Date: 30 Jun 1998 16:06:18 -0400 unsubscribe utahoutdoors - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Kenison Subject: [OUTDOORS] GPS article Date: 30 Jun 1998 16:43:06 -0600 (MDT) There's an interesting article on GPS (Global Positioning System) in today's "Outdoors" section of the SL Tribune; see: http://www.sltrib.com/1998/jun/06301998/Outdoors/Outdoors.htm Any comments from anyone who owns one of these units? How useful have you found it to be for hiking/backpacking adventures? Pros and cons? David Kenison - Orem, Utah dkenison@xmission.com My Homepage URL: http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/ Internet Lists: LDS-GEMS, Cougar-Net, UtahOutdoors, Brasil-SUD - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Brandt-Erichsen Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] GPS Date: 30 Jun 1998 16:24:55 -0700 At 04:43 PM 6/30/98 -0600, you wrote: >Any comments from anyone who owns one of these units? How useful have you >found it to be for hiking/backpacking adventures? Pros and cons? I find them very useful. Now that the cost is down to about $100, they are a very worthwhile investment. I hike a lot in canyonlands where the terrain is so jumbled it can be very hard to read the topo. With a GPS I can in a couple of minutes find out exactly what side canyon I am looking at. When you use UTM coordinates, you can tell just where you are on a topo map just by eyeballing it. (On older maps you would need to draw in the UTM grid -- but it's there already on all the newer maps.) Two caveates: (1) Never rely solely on a GPS. If you do, it's batteries might give out and then you won't know where you are! (2) If you plan on using the GPS as a navigation aid, always remember to take a fix at your car before you start. I once got lost in a forrested area with no visible landmarks. I had my GPS and a compass with me, but no topo map. I had forgotten to get a fix at the car, so the GPS was totally useless in finding my way back! I hadn't planned on using the GPS, but it turned out I sure could have. The GPS is only accurate to within just less than a tenth of a mile. I use it a lot for arch-hunting, but it is not accurate enough to get you right to an arch. This is unfortunate, especially in an area like Kentucky, where a natural arch can be totally invisible from 10 feet away due to the thick vegetation. This is true even in Utah, where an arch can be in such jumbled terrain that it is still very hard to find even if you have accurate coordinates for it in your GPS. GPS units are great. I highly recommend them. Just be aware of their limitations. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Jenkins/Susie McDonald" Subject: Re: [OUTDOORS] GPS Date: 30 Jun 1998 21:06:37 -0400 My sentiments exactly. A useful tool to augment your already good ability to route find without it. I have had a GPS for 4 years now, and carry it with me out west. I find that it usually confirms where I thought I was anyway. At least that has been our experience in Utah's canyon country, although with the deep canyons, it takes a long time to get a fix. Maybe the newer ones are better. There are times that I have been in bad fog in the mtns (Olympics, Cascades, ets) where I had wished I had one. But we found our way anyway. A suggestion: use lithium batteries with them. Weigh less and last longer. Roger Roger Jenkins/Susie McDonald Co-Editors: the Tennes-Sierran Our newsletter is available at: www.cs.utk.edu/~dixon/hbgsierra.html Check out the report of our Grand Canyon Backpack at: www.kaibab.org/happy/gctr9805.htm >>Any comments from anyone who owns one of these units? How useful have you >>found it to be for hiking/backpacking adventures? Pros and cons? > >I find them very useful. Now that the cost is down to about $100, they are >a very worthwhile investment. > >I hike a lot in canyonlands where the terrain is so jumbled it can be very >hard to read the topo. With a GPS I can in a couple of minutes find out >exactly what side canyon I am looking at. When you use UTM coordinates, >you can tell just where you are on a topo map just by eyeballing it. (On >older maps you would need to draw in the UTM grid -- but it's there already >on all the newer maps.) > >Two caveates: (1) Never rely solely on a GPS. If you do, it's batteries >might give out and then you won't know where you are! (2) If you plan on >using the GPS as a navigation aid, always remember to take a fix at your >car before you start. I once got lost in a forrested area with no visible >landmarks. I had my GPS and a compass with me, but no topo map. I had >forgotten to get a fix at the car, so the GPS was totally useless in >finding my way back! I hadn't planned on using the GPS, but it turned out >I sure could have. > >The GPS is only accurate to within just less than a tenth of a mile. I use >it a lot for arch-hunting, but it is not accurate enough to get you right >to an arch. This is unfortunate, especially in an area like Kentucky, >where a natural arch can be totally invisible from 10 feet away due to the >thick vegetation. This is true even in Utah, where an arch can be in such >jumbled terrain that it is still very hard to find even if you have >accurate coordinates for it in your GPS. > >GPS units are great. I highly recommend them. Just be aware of their >limitations. > > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: [OUTDOORS] Fwd: No Subject Date: 30 Jun 1998 21:22:31 EDT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_899256151_boundary Content-ID: <0_899256151@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_899256151_boundary Content-ID: <0_899256151@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay25.mx.aol.com (relay25.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.25]) by air12.mail.aol.com (v45.13) with SMTP; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:06:44 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by relay25.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id QAA25882 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yr6fd-0004fu-00; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:06:29 -0600 Received: from (mrout2.se.mediaone.net) [24.129.0.35] by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yr6fa-0004fn-00; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:06:27 -0600 Received: from mediaone (surf2635.se.mediaone.net [24.129.36.135]) by mrout2.se.mediaone.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA11260 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01e301bda462$8eca1300$03000004@mediaone.net.mediaone.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: utahoutdoors@lists.xmission.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable unsubscribe utahoutdoors - --part0_899256151_boundary-- -