From: John Zorn List Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 1997 9:18 AM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: John Zorn List V2 #142 John Zorn List Wednesday, November 5 1997 Volume 02 : Number 142 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 02:24:12 -0500 From: "Joeseph Simon" Subject: Fw: all talk, no info here - -----Original Message----- From: Joeseph Simon To: Patrice L. Roussel Date: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 8:44 PM Subject: Re: all talk, no info here > >> >>I think that if the problem was only coming from the clubs, life would >>be wonderful. >> >>I am afraid that there is a more serious reason: saturation of a genre that >>is already only attracting a minority. There is no large audience for most >>of the music we are talking about. And the ones that are really interested >>by this music have a hard time to keep up. >> >>Get ten Knitting Factory in NYC, and I am pretty sure that they will give >>up after few months (or will target more commercial kind of music, in order >>to survive). >> >>I remember going to the KF (many years ago) to see Tim Berne and arriving >>one hour before the show because I was affraid it would be sold out... And >>we ended up to be just 30 in the audience. More recently, I experienced the >>same with other downtowners (10-15 persons at the AlterKnit). Even the KF >>seems to have a hard time to fill the place with the less known >downtowners... >>You imagine with more clubs promoting this music? >> >>My feeling? The amount of music put out in this genre is growing much >>faster than its audience. The audience was always limited; it is still. >>Hard to get people listening to non-mainstream music (and I am even >>questioning why we should even try to convince them to do so). >> >> Patrice. >> >This is pretty interesting. In Cleveland, places in New York such as the >Knitting Factory are legendary and many tales of small attendences are >heard. However, For the Without Fear Concert Series and other activies >that host music such as you find on the Zorn List are often seeing >attendences of 30-200 people. I have done over 60 shows, each bringing in >at the lowest 30 people. However, I have to agree, there is a lot of >releases and that area is growing faster than the rest of it. I think its >easy to see that there is a lot of activity in this section of music. A lot >more publications devoted to it, college radio playing it, labels popping up >and such, but it also seems that this activity is by peopel that have been >involved or fans of this type of music for a while and now due to technology >are able to create and release products. This is not to say that I don't >think that the market is not expanding. I do think it is. > >I do ahve a question as to how other cities are when it comes to promoting >this type of music. What are the attendences in Chicago and other places? > >Anyone? > >Joeseph Simon >Without Fear Recordings >www.northeastohio.com/withoutfear > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 02:30:53 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: all talk, no info here Schwitterz wrote: > Saw Bendian's Interzone last night at Alligator Lounge. Watching > Bendian > (looking like Bob Sagat [sp?]) sparring with Dave Fiucznski (looking > like > Cro-Magnon Man) was a delight. When they did unison lines, it was > stunning > vituosity. The group improvisation was especially empathic as well. > I'm not > sure I'd care for DF in other contexts, but with Interzone he was > sublime. I also like Interzone, despite feeling that Gregg can be a little bit heavy-handed and stiff-armed on vibes in the live situation (on the disc he's wonderful). You heard Fuze instead of Nels Cline, huh? Interesting. The only time I heard Interzone live Nels was there, but Mike Sarin did a damn fine job sitting in for Alex Cline. Fuze is pretty fine on several Ronald Shannon Jackson albums (notably "Raven Roc") and lots of folks think very highly of the album "Lunar Crush" he made with John Medeski for Gramavision all those years ago... [Closet prog fans should check out the Interzone disc on Eremite; I was a little worried about myself when I thought this reminded me of Pierre Moerlan's Gong (circa "Expresso II") but since then I've heard that this was Gregg's "tribute" to Gentle Giant (and thus I wasn't really that far off the mark).] Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 22:13:44 -0700 From: Barry Gilbert Subject: KnitFac in Denver??? I recently heard a nasty rumor that the Knitting Factory is thinking about/planning to open one or more satellite clubs in different cities around the US. Specifically, I was told that Denver, nearly my home, will be the first site. This possibility seems at once absurd and thrilling. Has anyone else heard such rumors? If so, how could they possibly stay in business? Would the club showcase the same bands or styles of bands as in NY? Barry Gilbert Boulder, Colorado - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 22:14:33 -0700 From: Barry Gilbert Subject: KnitFac in Denver??? I recently heard a nasty rumor that the Knitting Factory is thinking about/planning to open one or more satellite clubs in different cities around the US. Specifically, I was told that Denver, nearly my home, will be the first site. This possibility seems at once absurd and thrilling. Has anyone else heard such rumors? If so, how could they possibly stay in business? Would the club showcase the same bands or styles of bands as in NY? Barry Gilbert Boulder, Colorado - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:27:18 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Two questions 1) What's Mr. Bungle up to? Does anyone know? 2) If anyone here is familiar with popular Japanese ska in the early '90's, I have a question that does not relate at all to Zorn. I ask here because of the Japanese tie-in. You know. Anyway, Thanks, Peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:50:40 -0500 (EST) From: Brent Burton Subject: Derek Bailey On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Steve Smith wrote: > I'm still amazed to have seen a standing room only crowd for Derek > Bailey last Monday night. Much bigger crowd than Tuesday or Thursday. > Do you think it had something to do with the fact that Monday was the > only night Zorn played practically all night, whereas he played somewhat > less on Tuesday, not at all on Thursday? i went up to nyc specifically to see bailey, who is so rarely on these shores. while it was great experience to see zorn and bailey together, i would've made the trek even if zorn hadn't been on *any* of the bills. perhaps there were others in the audience that felt the same way. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:38:37 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Bendian SS wrote: > >I also like Interzone, despite feeling that Gregg can be a little bit >heavy-handed and stiff-armed on vibes in the live situation (on the disc >he's wonderful). I know what you mean about the stiff, heavy-handedness. In this performance he was much looser and light-handed. Smiled a lot and seemed to be having a wonderful time. Very different from my previous experiences of him. The difference was obvious even when he was setting up. My companion didn't recognize him at first. sZ >Fuze is pretty fine on several Ronald Shannon Jackson albums (notably >"Raven Roc") and lots of folks think very highly of the album "Lunar >Crush" he made with John Medeski for Gramavision all those years ago... > >[Closet prog fans should check out the Interzone disc on Eremite; I was >a little worried about myself when I thought this reminded me of Pierre >Moerlan's Gong (circa "Expresso II") but since then I've heard that this >was Gregg's "tribute" to Gentle Giant (and thus I wasn't really that far >off the mark).] > >Steve Smith >ssmith36@sprynet.com > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:18:49 +0100 From: Nuno BARREIRO Subject: Re: John Zorn List V2 #141 A few words on recent Digests: - Eno appears on the recent Schleep from Robert Wyatt. He plays on several tracks and co-produces one or two. - Zappa is the most outstanding exemple of heteroclism in conteporary music. It is incredible how the recordings from the sixties are avant-garde, even now. Saying that it's a "mediocre white guy playing tricked-up r'n'r" is just plain bullshit, in the sense that it doens't mean anything and that it shows complete ignorance of his music! So, Mr. James Douglas Knox, go listen to some Zappa and the Mothers!!! Nuno Barreiro - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:15:39 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: John Zorn List V2 #141 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To strengthen what is right in a fool is a holy task. -- I CHING/Hexagram 4/Meng/Youthful Folly __________________________________________ - -----Original Message----- From: Nuno BARREIRO > > - Zappa is the most outstanding exemple of heteroclism in conteporary music. What does 'heteroclism' mean? > It is incredible how the recordings from the sixties are avant-garde, even > now. I still enjoy some 60s Mothers now and again, but there's not much post 60s Zappa that I would consider avant-garde. What about the 60s recordings makes them avant-garde now? sZ Saying that it's a "mediocre white guy playing tricked-up r'n'r" is > just plain bullshit, in the sense that it doens't mean anything and that > it shows complete ignorance of his music! So, Mr. James Douglas Knox, go > listen to some Zappa and the Mothers!!! > > > > Nuno Barreiro > >- > > - - ------------------------------ End of John Zorn List V2 #142 *****************************