From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #1005 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, July 17 2000 Volume 02 : Number 1005 In this issue: - Re: Terry Riley ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Zorn practicing Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Re: Zorn practicing \\\\\___hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Re: Zorn practicing Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Re: Zorn practicing (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky Re: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky Re: \\\\\___hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Re: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 20:54:49 EDT From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Re: Terry Riley While In C is the essential Riley his new works are often overlooked. "Chanting The Light Of Foresigh" is by far one of the best compositions in recent time. This is a sax Quartet written with just intonation (for more on Just intonation I highly recommend "Harmonic Experience: Tonal Harmony from Its Natural Origins to Its Modern Expression" -- W. A. Mathieu). This piece combines elements of minimalism, Indian music, jazz, improvisation, and traditional classical music. This piece requires four virtuosi and who better than the Rova Sax Quartet. It requires the instruments to be played in such a nontraditional manner without all the squeals. One movement was actually written by the group and it amazingly with Riley's vision. If you would like to hear music from one of the centuries greatest composers, some of the most difficult sax repertoire, a fusion of style, what truly playing in tune is, or just wonderful music, then buy this album. Aaron Solomon - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:46:11 +0200 From: "Rob Allaert" Subject: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Hi Zorn-agains, Can anyone review these releases? * Wadada Leo Smith: Reflectativity * New Klezmer Trio: Short For Something * Susie Ibarra: Flower after flower * Peter Epstein: Staring at the Sun Thanks, Rob, Belgium << ....... http://www.frontstage.com/rob _______________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:19:43 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Rob Allaert wrote: > * Wadada Leo Smith: Reflectativity I have the original LP on KaBell records (Kabell 1, 1975); I assume the re-release contains the same material. I've always thought it was an ok recording, maybe a little on the spare side. The trio is Smith, a youthful Anthony Davis and Wes Brown on bass. Two side long, live performances, one dedicated to Ellington, one "to the fishermen of the world". As I said, the textures are rather spare, Smith darting in and out, Davis not yet exposing his romantic or gamelan-influenced nature, though, in fairness, I'd have to give it a re-listen to comment more particularly. Brian Olewnick NP: Fushitsusha, Live 1989 (Anyone have an English translation of the song titles for this? This is PSFD 2-3.) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:58:20 EDT From: Eriedell@aol.com Subject: Zorn practicing Hey guys, (I'm new to the list) I read somewhere that Zorn practiced for eight hours a day for ten years. I was wondering if any of you know how he financially managed to do this. If you're practicing that much it doesn't leave much time for another job. Also, does anyone know of any good biographical sources on Zorn (I know an actual biography hasn't been written, but are there any notable articles)? ~Eriedell - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:03:23 -0400 From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< >> * Wadada Leo Smith: Reflectativity > >I have the original LP on KaBell records (Kabell 1, 1975); I assume the >re-release contains the same material. I've always thought it was an ok I thought this was a new album with the same title. Can anybody confirm or deny? LT - ------------------------------------------- Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm "Where Do You Want to Go Today" Somewhere you can never take me! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:24:53 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< In a message dated 7/16/00 2:07:14 PM, wlt4@mindspring.com writes: << I thought this was a new album with the same title. Can anybody confirm=20= or deny? >> yeah, it looks like a new recording of an old composition, plus some new=20 material. from the Tzadik web site (www.tzadik.com): "Reflectativity, first released on Leo Smith=E2=80=99s own label in the earl= y 1970s=20 is one of the most important extended compositions blending improvisation an= d=20 composition, and one of Leo Smith=E2=80=99s masterpieces. This exciting new=20= version=20 features the brilliant pianist/composer Anthony Davis (who performed on the=20 original recording) and longtime friend and colleague Malachi Favors=E2=80= =94the=20 legendary monster bass player from the Art Ensemble of Chicago. Coupled with= =20 several new compositions, this CD brings together the past and present of=20 creative music=E2=80=99s most continually fascinating composer/performers. " Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:53:58 PDT From: "robert ludington" Subject: Re: Zorn practicing <> Well, i'm going to take a hunch that some of this was durring his high school years, and college(he attended, correct?) where there isn't such a burden to have financial stability... of course it's jsut a guess, but i know many musicians with an ealry interest did take advantage of this time period... i also have a question that has been nagging my mind for awhile that is somewhat related, and a good one for the list i suppose, is how can Zorn and others make a living at this sort of music? I mean, it's hard enough being in top-40 cover bands who play paying bar gigs regularlly, but i can't imaging avant-jazz gigs(before such venues as the Knit/Tonic/etc) providing much income, and the same goes for being a "studio" musician of this nature.. so, any working musicians got any tips? I'm very curious because the more various jobs I work, the more I realize that i'll only be 100% happy if i can make my living off being an artist.... maybe reply offlist if this isn't list material? Thanx. ~rob~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:27:00 -0700 (PDT) From: jason tors Subject: \\\\\___hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< > * New Klezmer Trio: Short For Something This record got extra reccomendations from bruce at DMG. I hear that kenny's playing real up front. > * Susie Ibarra: Flower after flower Very beautiful compositions, a bit sparse in parts, I have to put more time into this album. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:07:49 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Zorn practicing Eriedell@aol.com wrote: > (I'm new to the list) I read somewhere that Zorn practiced for eight hours a > day for ten years. I was wondering if any of you know how he financially > managed to do this. If you're practicing that much it doesn't leave much > time for another job. Also, does anyone know of any good biographical > sources on Zorn (I know an actual biography hasn't been written, but are > there any notable articles)? Two questions, one answer. Take a look at composer William Duckworth's book 'Talking Music,' which features one of the more frank and in-depth interviews Zorn's ever given regarding his early years, path to success, and, yes, ways and means of making a living and paying the rent. That's all I'll say because it's a good book and if you really want to know the things you've asked about Zorn, you should check it out. The others covered include John Cage, Milton Babbitt, La Monte Young, Terry Riley, Philip Glass, Steve Reich, Laurie Anderson and Glenn Branca... and even that is only a partial listing. Welcome to the list. Have fun. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - (I should be WAY too embarassed to admit this but...) Marillion, "Heart of Lothian" (demo version), 'Misplaced Childhood' (Sanctuary) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:18:20 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/00 2:07:14 PM, wlt4@mindspring.com writes: > > << I thought this was a new album with the same title. Can anybody con= firm or > deny? >> > > yeah, it looks like a new recording of an old composition, plus some ne= w > material. from the Tzadik web site (www.tzadik.com): > > "Reflectativity, first released on Leo Smith=E2=80=99s own label in the= early 1970s > is one of the most important extended compositions blending improvisati= on and > composition, and one of Leo Smith=E2=80=99s masterpieces. This exciting= new version > features the brilliant pianist/composer Anthony Davis (who performed on= the > original recording) and longtime friend and colleague Malachi Favors=E2= =80=94the > legendary monster bass player from the Art Ensemble of Chicago. Coupled= with > several new compositions, this CD brings together the past and present = of > creative music=E2=80=99s most continually fascinating composer/performe= rs. " Lang and Jon are correct; it's a new version of "Reflectivity" plus three= new pieces, "Blue Flag," "Fisherman T Wmukl-D" and "Hanabishi." It was recor= ded during the same January 2000 recording sessions that produced the other r= ecent Smith disc on Tzadik, 'Golden Quartet' (which included Jack DeJohnette on= drums and is a pretty damned exceptional free jazz session). I've got the new = one sitting here but haven't put it on yet - which should probably make me ev= en more embarassed to be listening to neo-prog rock tonight... ;-) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Marillion, "Passing Strangers" (demo version), 'Misplaced Childhood' (Sanctuary) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:40:54 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: ___________hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< Rob Allaert wrote: > * Wadada Leo Smith: Reflectativity > * New Klezmer Trio: Short For Something > * Susie Ibarra: Flower after flower Oddly, I got all three of these last Friday but haven't had a chance to listen. > * Peter Epstein: Staring at the Sun Truly fine young band (saxophonist Epstein plus Jamie Saft on accordion, Chris Dahlgren on bass and Jim Black on drums), clever writing, heated playing, and exceptionally fine recorded sound. I don't think I've ever heard as much fine detail in Jim Black's textures. Not especially "out," but a really good solid postmodern jazz date that swings in lotsa different meters. Enthusiastically recommended. They've got a newer disc on the same label. 'The Invisible,' and everything I've just said holds for that one too, with the addition of Saft's piano and Farfisa organ. I'll have to get back to you on the others... now, Jamie Saft's new one on Tzadik... THAT's some strange stuff. When I first played that one I was almost positive that there had been a mastering error and the wrong album had been stamped (branded? burned?) into the disc. Turned out not to be the case... But I'll leave that one for another time after a few more spins. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - nada at the moment... - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:45:17 +0200 From: patRice Subject: Re: Zorn practicing Eriedell@aol.com wrote: >><> somewhere that Zorn practiced for >>eight hours a day for ten years. >> If you're practicing that much it doesn't >>leave much time for another job.>> well - every single day has 24 hours, hasn't it? so even if you did practice 10 hours, you'd still have 14 left for another job... ;-) i don't know how zorn managed to do this, but another respected artist i have had the pleasure of studying with, terry bozzio (former frank zappa drummer), told me that because he was the son of poor immigrants, he never had money to go out with his friends or do anything much after school was over. so he spent most of his spare time practicing the drums. he started off with about two hours in the morning before (!) going to school, then again after lunch, and continued right after coming back home in the afternoon. though, if i remember correctly, he "only" practiced around eight hours... robert ludington wrote: >>i also have a question that has been nagging >> my mind for awhile that is >>somewhat related, and a good one for the list >>i suppose, is how can Zorn and >>others make a living at this sort of music? >>i can't >>imaging avant-jazz gigs(before such venues as >>the Knit/Tonic/etc) providing >>much income, and the same goes for being a i think that a lot of those artists make their "main" money over here in europe. i've read several interviews in which one or the other of them said that they couldn't possibly survive doing this kind of music if it wasn't for the european market. guys like zorn do really get paid very good money over here. even way back in 1992 "naked city" were paid more than $ 10000 per gig. (which left about $ 1666.66 per person per gig.) i can't remember though if that was including or excluding travel/hotel costs. Steve Smith wrote: >>NP - (I should be WAY too embarassed >>to admit this but...) Marillion, "Heart of >>Lothian" (demo version), 'Misplaced >> Childhood' (Sanctuary) don't worry steve! because i have listened to iron maiden's "piece of mind" and "somewhere in time" all weekend... ;-) patRice - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:37:00 EDT From: Eriedell@aol.com Subject: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky While I was in Montreal for the jazz fest (where Masada played an absoloutely mind-blowing set friday night) I came across a book in the Indigo book store called Future Jazz--unfortunatley, I forget who the author is. It had an interveiw and section on zorn. This suprised me since nowhere online have I seen a reference to this book as a source for Zorn info. Anyway, Zorn said that he wasn't introduced to jazz until the age of twenty while he was at college in St. Louis. For most of his teen years he listened to early twentieth century composers--Stravinsky being his favorite. I recently just got Black Box (double disc with Torture Garden and Leng T'che). For those who don't know--these two albums were originally banned from most US stores because of explicitly graphic cover art. So, I was thinking, "You know, this really isn't that different from what Stravinsky did with Rite of Spring." What made RoS controversial wasn't so much the music as the subject matter and dance that accompanied it (which had nudity and virgin sacrifice--controversial for early 20th century). What makes the naked city stuff controversial isn't so much the music--which may seem controversial to those of us in on the jazz scene, but for the rest of the public it's just some strange kind of punk/hardcore noise--but the album art, the visual images that accompany Naked City in the same way that the nude-virgin-sacrifice accompanied RoS. So, did Zorn intensionally borrow this trick of pairing music with shocking visuals from Stravisnky to make the Naked City stuff controversial? Or am I looking to hard for a connection here--what do you guys think? Also, my roomate who is still out on whether or not he likes Zorn, but curious none the less was offended by the torture photographs in the Leng T'che part of Black Box. We differed in opinion here. The torture photos certainly didn't make me feel good, but i don't necessarily think that it's morally wrong for Zorn to include them with the album--I think. The question that popped in my head, and that Zorn is certainly challenging is "Is Art Moral?" I'm at a loss for what I think; so, I was wondering if you all have anything to say. ~Eriedell PS I apologize for the long length here--also, if any of this has been previously discussed, just direct me to the back issue and i'll leave you all alone. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:08:40 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky I think it's a pretty common thing among artists to stretch the boundaries and sometimes aim for controversy, I don't think you can say that Stravinsky is what inspired Zorn to choose particular cover art for a cd. There was recently a thread on cover art, no idea when exactly though. It was about the Taboo & Exile artwork, and stretched out to include Naked City and Painkiller albums. I would say if someone is offended by the Leng Tche artwork, either they have a really weak stomach, or they are assuming something about Zorn's intention. I mean, remember that's what the piece is about, so is probably the most appropriate image... - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:40:44 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: \\\\\___hunger for reviews---------------------<<<<< On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:27:00 -0700 (PDT) jason tors wrote: > > > * New Klezmer Trio: Short For Something > This record got extra reccomendations from bruce at > DMG. I hear that kenny's playing real up front. But doesn't Bruce always add extra recommendations :-)? Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:57:41 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: (more from the new guy) Zorn and Stranvinsky On Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:37:00 EDT Eriedell@aol.com wrote: > > While I was in Montreal for the jazz fest (where Masada played an absoloutely > mind-blowing set friday night) I came across a book in the Indigo book store > called Future Jazz--unfortunatley, I forget who the author is. It had an I guess it is Howard Mandel's book. I did not know that it contains a section on Zorn. > interveiw and section on zorn. This suprised me since nowhere online have I > seen a reference to this book as a source for Zorn info. Anyway, Zorn said > that he wasn't introduced to jazz until the age of twenty while he was at > college in St. Louis. For most of his teen years he listened to early > twentieth century composers--Stravinsky being his favorite. I recently just > got Black Box (double disc with Torture Garden and Leng T'che). For those > who don't know--these two albums were originally banned from most US stores In fact they were not banned, but Zorn got tired of the controversy surrounding them and decided to remove them. > nude-virgin-sacrifice accompanied RoS. So, did Zorn intensionally borrow > this trick of pairing music with shocking visuals from Stravisnky to make the > Naked City stuff controversial? Or am I looking to hard for a connection > here--what do you guys think? I think that you are looking too hard :-). There are zillions of similar cases, starting before Stravinsky, I am sure (at least many after). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #1005 ******************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com