From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #1007 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, July 18 2000 Volume 02 : Number 1007 In this issue: - Re: re : moral Re: ZRM[P] review [longish] Fahey (was Re: ZRM[P] review [longish]) re: moral Re: moral PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs Re: moral Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs RE: Cobra Odp: Boulez Re: Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs Bootlegs? Re: Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs La Monte Young's "The Well-Tuned Piano 81 x 25" cobra Re: Odp: Boulez ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:35:53 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: re : moral On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:53:41 +0100 "Truyens" wrote: > > The question > that popped in my head, and that Zorn is certainly challenging is "Is Art > Moral?" I'm at a loss for what I think; so, I was wondering if you all have > anything to say. > > ~Eriedell > > I'm always slightly missionary when I hear questions like Is art moral, Is > love good. > I've probably read too much Korzybski, so I think of these questions as > noise. Unanswerable. There is nothing that can be called "Art" and also ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Give us a break, I am sure that there are plenty of things that you consider as being crap. If true, then look at the totally opposite side of it and you might found something that you call art. Unless that you outlawed the word "art" for pure dialectic reasons. We might not know what "art" is, but its lack of is usually easy to notice. > moral is a rather abstract term. Abstraction meaning so many levels away > from actual experience, that it becomes almost void. > There are people doing things and each and every one should be viewed > separately. The deepness of the last statement totally eludes me... Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:48:40 -0400 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: ZRM[P] review [longish] I am in agreement, the show was fantastic. I was able to see the second set of the show after waiting for the Fahey no-show at the Knit. I really enjoy the Z/R/M w/drummer setup. This is the first I've seen but others I have heard. >Perowsky just might have to get a paragraph. Dear patRice, Perowsky did play consistently loud last night. While much of the set I saw called for the high energy playing, there were parts that didn't and I thought he played too loud. There were times when he settled down and chilled out but now I see what you mean. At 8:12 AM -0700 7/18/00, jason tors wrote: >This brings me to my plea for the day. If anyone >knows who was taping that set and could be troubled to >divulge, it would mean a lot. Trades are available. >Thanks. I know Federico taped from the stage but I don't know if he trades or not. Dan Hewins - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:11:39 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Fahey (was Re: ZRM[P] review [longish]) In a message dated 7/18/00 11:54:39 AM, dan@synsolutions.com writes: << I was able to see the second set of the show after waiting for the Fahey no-show at the Knit. >> he didn't show at all? was there any explanation? I know he had to borrow a guitar at the Transmissions festival this past weekend, but he did play. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:10:35 +0100 From: "Truyens" Subject: re: moral Dear Patrice, I don't outlaw the word art, actually I don't outlaw any of the words, but I advise to be careful about statements ( using words ) where levels of abstraction are connected by the ominous "is" thus suggesting identities where none are present. This usually leads to what I like to call noise. About the deepness of the last statement, about 3 inches. Hugo - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:49:49 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: moral On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:10:35 +0100 "Truyens" wrote: > > Dear Patrice, > I don't outlaw the word art, actually I don't outlaw any of the words, but I > advise to be careful about statements ( using words ) where levels of > abstraction are connected by the ominous "is" thus suggesting identities > where none are present. This usually leads to what I like to call noise. > About the deepness of the last statement, about 3 inches. The great thing about this way of thinking is that you remove the common use of words understood by everybody (I mean, regular people, the ones who don't feel that they have to read books with titles that they can't understand), because of an alleged imperfection in their meaning, and replace them by nothing. Let's face it, you could apply the same reasonning to almost anything in life (beauty/ugly, important/non important, great/lame, etc). I just hope that when you do your shopping, you are more practical. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:05:31 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs sorry for the promotional intrusion, and further apologies if you receive=20 more than one copy of this: I'm proud to announce the release of the latest CD on my label: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs (Erstwhile 007) John Butcher and Phil Durrant have both been prominent members of the Englis= h=20 improv scene since the mid-eighties, releasing everything from solo records=20 to being members of all-star orchestras. In 1984, they formed a trio with=20 John Russell, with Durrant on violin, a band which is in its 17th year=20 together. In 1997, the two began their electromanipulation project, in which= =20 Durrant transforms Butcher's sounds electronically in real time, interacting= =20 with Butcher's live playing. The music has three potential strands; the=20 amplified saxophone and two electronic processing chains - individually=20 controlled by Durrant - which are triggered by and/or derived from the=20 saxophone's signal. No sampling is used.=20 This is the second CD which Butcher and Durrant have released utilizing this= =20 approach. The first was the critically acclaimed Secret Measures (Wobbly=20 Rail), which was a recording of the first concert they played in this style=20 in November of 1997. Requests and Antisongs captures the duo more than two=20 years later, carefully recorded in a London studio by Toby Robinson. Butcher= =20 demonstrates his seemingly effortless mastery of his instrument(s)=20 throughout, while Durrant applies all of the numerous live processing skills= =20 he's carefully honed, not least as an integral part of Keith Rowe's all-star= =20 MIMEO electronic orchestra. "Durrant's electronic wizardry has moved beyond the role of reflector, as he= =20 alters the shape of Butcher's musings with burly squelches and thick fuzz=20 tones, which in turn force Butcher to react to his own deceptively modified=20 palette of metallic buzzes and vigorous multi-phonics. Having received this=20 recording the same week I was fortunate enough to see this duo perform live,= =20 I can safely say that what was once an intriguing work in progress has=20 evolved into one of the most satisfying electroacoustic experiments being=20 documented today."--Jon Morgan personnel: John Butcher - tenor or soprano saxophone Phil Durrant - live electronic manipulation and modular feedback track listing: 1. Sheet Bend 6:38 2. Jansik 1:00 3. Sliding Chinese Crown 4:50 4. Eye Splice 1:39 5. Kreuzklem 5:05 6. Bimini Twist 7:11 7. Prusik Loop 7:40 8. Float Stop 3:31 9. Flemish Eye 5:18 10. Palomar 8:57 11. Japanese Square Lashing 6:25 more info available at the following web sites, or contact Erstwhile Records= =20 at ErstRecs@aol.com: http://www.erstwhilerecords.com http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mbutcher.html all Erstwhile CDs can be purchased from numerous worldwide distributors, all= =20 of which are listed on my web site. also, all Erstwhile releases can be=20 purchased via mail order (prices are for single CDs):=20 $13 US each postpaid within the United States=20 $14 US each postpaid to Canada=20 $16 US each postpaid overseas=20 all payments must be made in US funds. cash and money orders shipped=20 immediately. mail cash at your own risk. shipments paid for with checks held= =20 until they clear. please send your order to: Erstwhile Records 189 Christopher Columbus Dr. Apt. #4 Jersey City, NJ 07302 - ----------------------------- future releases from Erstwhile will include: 009: Dean Roberts/Werner Dafeldecker-Aluminium 010: G=FCnter M=FCller/L=EA Quan Ninh 011: Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack 012: Thomas Lehn/Marcus Schmickler 013: Axel D=F6rner/Kevin Drumm 014: TV Pow/Stilluppsteypa also available now: 001-VHF-Extracts 002-Haunted House-Up In Flames 003-Earl Howard/Denman Maroney-Fire Song 004-2-Thomas Lehn/Gerry Hemingway-Tom & Gerry (double CD) 005-Keith Rowe/G=FCnter M=FCller/Taku Sugimoto-The World Turned Upside Down 006-Kevin Drumm/Martin T=E9treault-Particles and Smears 008-Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee thanks for reading. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:11:06 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:05:31 EDT JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs (Erstwhile 007) Looks like a killer record! Nice blurb on Jon in the last issue of SIGNAL TO NOISE, BTW. Patrice. PS: on a totally different topic, what a coverage of Dave Douglas in the last issue of DOWN BEAT! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:24:35 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs In a message dated 7/18/00 1:11:57 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: << Nice blurb on Jon in the last issue of SIGNAL TO NOISE, BTW. >> thanks, Patrice. so, as long as you're bringing it up, what do you think of my genre name for the new wave of electroacoustic improv, dangerous improv? for those who haven't seen the new StN yet, I call it dangerous improv primarily because the musicians have no safety net of standard phrases and gestures to fall back on if they temporarily run out of ideas, as do musicians using instruments with more of an improv history. I've heard a bunch of attempts at naming this burgeoning new genre: microvising, glitchprov, but I like this one. anyway, I'm curious to hear what you guys think. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:57:30 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: moral On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 09:49:49AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Let's face it, you could apply the same reasonning to almost anything in life > (beauty/ugly, important/non important, great/lame, etc). I just hope that > when you do your shopping, you are more practical. One rarely shops for abstractions. Consciously, at least :-) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:50:27 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:24:35 EDT JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 7/18/00 1:11:57 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: > > << Nice blurb on Jon in the last issue of SIGNAL TO NOISE, BTW. >> > > thanks, Patrice. so, as long as you're bringing it up, what do you think of > my genre name for the new wave of electroacoustic improv, dangerous improv? > > for those who haven't seen the new StN yet, I call it dangerous improv > primarily because the musicians have no safety net of standard phrases and > gestures to fall back on if they temporarily run out of ideas, as do > musicians using instruments with more of an improv history. I don't know, I would prefer "high wire improv". If you have a concert flyer with "dangerous improv" written on, you might not get the crowd that you expect :-). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:58:05 -0400 From: Zach Griffin Subject: RE: Cobra To Patrice's comment about Zorn producing the Tom Cora Tribute in exchange for getting the Cobra at the KF deleted. I personally can't comment on that because I do not know for sure. But I believe it is true that the Cobra at the KF is out of print. I do remember reading somewhere, I want to say from one of the DMG newsletters but I am not 100% sure, the Cobra at the KF was indeed being deleted and replaced by a new recording of Cobra on Tzadik eventually. I don't have that info on hand, so I may be totally wrong. If that's the case I apologize. Zach Griffin - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:57:13 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Boulez From: A > I just finished seeing a Pierre Boulez performance, conducting the > Salzburg Philarmonic in 1992 and it blew me away Oh, you lucky guy... will maybe go to Berlin on 1st August. >...any good pointers > on where to start exploring his music??? There is a great recording on 20/21 Deutsche Grammophon series, which includes Repons, an incledible 'concerrtyo grosso' (six 'solo instruments, including piano, xylophone, etc., which are electronically processed) and a chamber orchestra (Ensemble Intercontemporain, of course). Boulez is also, needless to say, an incredible conductor. His recent recordings of Stravinsky and Bartok, for example, are incredible. if you've got a fewbucks to spend, just buy Petrouschka-The rite of Spring. It's a must. This version kills (BTW, anybody has any recommendations as to stravinsky great ballets? I love the new Boulez versions. Also there is a great and cheap 2cd set conducted by Abbado, which are pretty incredible. A great way gto become a Stravinsky's addict) > A > np: Liquid Tension Experiment 2 The band that featured Tony Levin & patRice's friend Terry Bozio;-)? I found thier first cd rather weak... what is that one like > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > - > Marcin Gokieli marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:12:12 -0400 From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs >what do you think of my genre name for the new wave of >electroacoustic improv, dangerous improv? Why not just New Wave of Electroacoustic Improv (NWOEI) along the lines of the now old-school New Wave of British Heavy Metal (NWOBHM)? (Personally I like Kenneth Goldsmith's "glitchwerks" better because no improvs are dangerous in any meaningful sense.) Lang - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:18:55 EDT From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Bootlegs? Hi all, I'm new to this list and have no idea what list etiquette is concerning bootlegs, but I was wondering if anyone here was interested in trading some Zornstuff? I don't have anything other than a double disc of Masada in London from earlier this year (and the "Masada Live in NY 1994" disc), but I would be very interested in expanding my collection. I also have MUCH pop music to offer in trade, most notably Tom Waits, Elvis Costello, and Bob Dylan. If this plea goes again list rules, I apologize. Please disregard, castigate me publicly, and I will never bring this up again. Thanks, Tom - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:30:02 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Re: PROMO: John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:12:12PM -0400, wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: > Why not just New Wave of Electroacoustic Improv (NWOEI) along the lines of the now old-school New Wave of British Heavy Metal (NWOBHM)? (Personally I like Kenneth Goldsmith's "glitchwerks" better because no improvs are dangerous in any meaningful sense.) There's always the danger of looking foolish. Not to mention the danger of being knocked off the stage by a hyperactive guitarist. And there's always the mortality rate of Spinal Tap's drummers... - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:35:11 -0400 From: Maurice Rickard Subject: La Monte Young's "The Well-Tuned Piano 81 x 25" All the talk about La Monte Young last week again sparked my interest in this piece, which (as most of you probably know) is very difficult to track down. Is there anyone on the list who has a vinyl or CD box of the Gramavision set just gathering dust and would like to unload it? If so, email me privately. Thanks! - -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:59:30 PDT From: "William York" Subject: cobra >>Does any one know where I can get a copy of Cobra Live 92. >It was my impression that the Tom Cora tribute (IT'S A BRAND NEW DAY) >was >produced by John Zorn at the condition that the COBRA would be >deleted. I also heard it was deleted, but I see it used a lot -- more than just about any other Zorn CD. If you want I could go try and find one, because I'm pretty sure I could. But I would also guess that he will eventually reissue it on Tzadik as well. WY ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:04:30 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Odp: Boulez On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:57:13 +0200 "Marcin Gokieli" wrote: > > must. This version kills (BTW, anybody has any recommendations as to > stravinsky great ballets? I love the new Boulez versions. Also there is a Besides THE RITE OF SPRINGS and PETROUSHKA, you need not to forget LES NOCES (THE WEDDING). After that, there are many other great ballets by Stravinsky, but in a more classic vein: THE FIREBIRD shows the influence of Rimsky-Korsakov and is the perfect fourth choice. It is interesting in the sense that it shows from where Stravinsky came. Now I am gonna mention two ballets that people usually hate: PULCINELLA which belongs to the neo-classic period (1919?) and is a sort of a la maniere de Pergolese. What I love in the ballet is the melodic quality: almost every second of it can be sung, and the melody are beautiful. But it is true that when listening to it, you feel more in the baroque period than in the XX century! APPOLON MUSAGETE, also considered as belonging to the neo-classic (1924?), is a gorgeous piece for strings. People usually considered it as boring but I find it quite moving and fairly unique (in the sense that what he borrows is less that what he brings). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #1007 ******************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com