From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #215 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, January 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 215 In this issue: - Re: Material in the Punk era Re: Zorn in the Punk era Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE] PBS / Burns doc. about jazz? Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE] Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE] Re: Material in the Punk era FWD:Want List Laswell Newsgroup? Re: My latest purchases Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE] Cujo - "Adventures in Foam" Re: Cujo - "Adventures in Foam" Rough Assemblage videos....film and music..? SWANS (was: Re: My latest purchases) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:00:14 -0500 From: Sean Terwilliger Subject: Re: Material in the Punk era Caleb Deupree wrote: > > At 09:43 AM 1/24/98 -0500, Rich Williams wrote: > > > I remember a Material concert at the Kitchen in 1981. Material > >at that time, was popular in the punk clubs, and their early EP's were > >somewhat in that vein, but when the gig turned out to be > >Laswell, Zorn, Sharrock,Frith,Derek Bailey, and Charles Noyes doing free > >improvs, they managed to disperse the audience in pretty short order. > > There's a complete live Material concert on DIW-389 that has a similar > lineup, Laswell, Beinhorn, Frith, Noyes, David Moss, and Mark Miller, > recorded at Soundscape on October 16, 1981, sounding much like free improv. > An interesting footnote to the whole Material experience, very percussion > heavy and not especially well recorded. > > -- > Caleb Deupree > cdeupree@interagp.com > cdeupree@erinet.com > > Computers are useless; they can only give you answers > -- Pablo Picasso > > - There's also the 'Improvised Music, NY 1981' cd on Mu. That's essentially a Material CD. Laswell Sharrock Bailey Frith Zorn Noyes. Not sure if you can get it any more as Mu seems to no linger be in existance. - -Sean - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:08:04 -0500 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Zorn in the Punk era Rich Williams sez: >The first cross pollination between the free improv and punk >scenes that I remember was the original Golden Palomino's.which in turn >spawned The Locus Solus Trio of Zorn, Lindsay and Fier. This band, >played most of >their concerts at punk rock clubs. Of course, Arto had been in DNA and >Anton had been in The Feelies and Lounge Lizards, but that didn't cut >much with audiences. Great discussion! Arto played in the Lounge Lizards also while Anton was there. As for the Golden Palominos, there was also Bill Laswell and Prime Time's Jamaaladeen Tacuma playing with them- what an amazing band that was. Just to make things confusing, The Lounge Lizards were originally going to be called the Golden Palominos. Your point about free improv and punk coming together here is dead on- that was really ground zero for the whole meeting of these styles. I'm sure a lot of people were thrown off by the whole thing then and I would have loved to see that. > The punk scene was, to a certain extent, about fashion, and >these guys were NOT fashionable. Lots of arguments to be made here but you're right in a sense- that scene (like any other) had more than its share of poseurs. Jason Perfect Sound Forever Warped perspectives on all types of music perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:11:59 From: Jesse Simon Subject: Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE] At 02:48 AM 1/24/98 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > IIRC Dolphy is *not* on "Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus." My mistake. Most of my CDs and records are in boxes due to an impending move, so I couldn't actually check out the personelle on Mingus Mingus etc. I thought I remembered Dolphy doing the clap-solo on Better Get it in Your Soul, but I can't be certain. I am pretty sure that Dolphy plays on Mingus' Town Hall Concert album. In Epitaph Part I, there's that section where the saxophone and bass have a bit of dialogue and I've always thought that was Dolphy. But I could be wrong. Jesse - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:13:13 -0700 From: tricky88@earthlink.net Subject: PBS / Burns doc. about jazz? Todd Furey worte: >There will be in the coming years, I think 2000, is the slated date for a >PBS special. The same director who did the civil war and baseball >documentaries is working on a ten part series of jazz history. I was told >it would be a decade by decade approach, the first episode must stretch >farther into the previous century though. Is this true? I hope not. While I liked a bit of the Civil War documentary, I found it over-rated. I thought the baseball one was tedious and the Lewis & Clark downright unwatchable. I know he is finishing up one on architecture that may or may not be mostly about Frank Lloyd Wright. The Civil War may be slightly interesting, what (very) little interest baseball held for me was sucked right out by Ken Burns' doc. and I will now never look more into the lives and travels of Lewis & Clark... But Wright was the MAN, and if Ken Burns makes his life and work as boring as everything else he has done it will be a travesty. Now (back to the subject) JAZZ!? Whoever did the sprawling rock one at least was interesting (I know Robert Palmer played a fairly big part in it, but probably won't be as active in the jazz series what with his new lighter schedule and all) I pray it is the Rock guy and not Ken Burns. Either way, it is something that if done well could be really illuminating; I wonder how much video footage there is of guys like Miles (earlier Miles; before he was covered in sequins and shades like a a cross between Judge Dredd and Liberace) Mingus, Coltrane... I bet a lot; but Ken Burns will probably just pan around photos from old LPs and not even gather any MOVING footage. Or the earlier guys; Ellington and Basie who I believe appeared in a lot of feature films of their day playing their music. Icertainly haven't seen much about them though; which is why a sprawling doc would be great; Seems like something I would rather let the big boys at BBC handle though; they always do a much better job it seems than us surface-scratchin' Americans. I'd also be very interested (naturally) in seeing how a documentarian covering the full scope of jazz would treat (or mistreat, or completely ignore) John Zorn. In case there are any other doc. buffs out there, there is an Austrian film from 1993 about the life of James Ellroy playing in L.A. in a couple of months. And Frederick Weissmann's latest - Public Housing - has been on PBS in the past month or so. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:24:02 -0500 From: acapps@usit.net (ashley capps) Subject: Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE] >At 02:48 AM 1/24/98 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: >> IIRC Dolphy is *not* on "Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus." >My mistake. Most of my CDs and records are in boxes due to an impending >move, so I couldn't actually check out the personelle on Mingus Mingus etc. >I thought I remembered Dolphy doing the clap-solo on Better Get it in Your >Soul, but I can't be certain. > >I am pretty sure that Dolphy plays on Mingus' Town Hall Concert album. In >Epitaph Part I, there's that section where the saxophone and bass have a >bit of dialogue and I've always thought that was Dolphy. But I could be wrong. > >Jesse Actually, Jesse, your memory is pretty good and Steve's mistaken. Dolphy is most definitely on MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS on all but 2 of the 7 original tracks, plus he appears on the CDs bonus track. Ashley - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:42:32 +1100 From: Paul Jacobson Subject: Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE] Hi, I checked out the discography in the back of Brian Priestley's "Mingus: A Critical Biography" (Paladin Books 1985) and the following discs have Dolphy as a sideman with Mingus. I have a Dolphy discography that list's private recordings etc made of nearly every concert of Mingus' 1964 European, some of which have shown up as bootlegs and semi-legal cd's. 1960 (Year of Recording) Mingus Revisited - also as Pre Bird (Mercury) Mingus At Antibes (Atlantic) Mingus Presents Mingus (Candid) Mingus (Candid) The Jazz Life (Candid) Newport Rebels (Candid) 1962 Town Hall Concert (United Artists) 1963 Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus (Impluse) 1964 Town Hall Concert (Jazz Workshop) - also as Portrait (Prestige) Mingus Sextet Live in Europe (Unique Jazz) The Great Concert of Charles Mingus (Prestige) Live In Europe Vol 1 (Enja) Live In Europe Vol 2 (Enja) Mingus In Stutgart (Unique Jazz UJ009) Mingus In Stutgart (Unique Jazz UJ007/8) peace Paul - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:18:25 PST From: "Silent Watcher" Subject: Re: Material in the Punk era >> I remember a Material concert at the Kitchen in 1981. Material >>at that time, was popular in the punk clubs, and their early EP's were >>somewhat in that vein, but when the gig turned out to be >>Laswell, Zorn, Sharrock,Frith,Derek Bailey, and Charles Noyes doing free >>improvs, they managed to disperse the audience in pretty short order. Is it safe to assume that this is the show that produced the _Improvised Music New York 1981_ disc on MuWorks? I had read somewhere (I think maybe the Axiom site, or soemthing Jeff Spirer posted) that that disc was intended as a Material release, but couldn't be for some contractual reason. I think it's very good, even if only to hear that combination of players. The quality is poor, though, not to mention that it's only about 35 min. long and hard to find anything but a slightly expensive Japanese pressing. Well worth it though. SW A semi-complete Laswell discography @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:38:12 -0700 MST From: sasanborn@micron.com Subject: FWD:Want List ---------- Start of forwarded message ---------- Message# 639249 Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:01:50 -0700 MST From: SASANBORN To: SASANBORN Subject: Want List Hi there. I'm really interested in checking out some musick by the following bands listed below, I know not all of them would be considered the style of this list, but if anybody out there has any of this and could maybe swap me a tape of some, or just give me a description of what the group is like, I'd be most appreciative. Thanx. You can email me at sasanborn@micron.com Asha Vida Azusa Plane Bevis Frond Electric Frankenstein Faust Flying Saucer Attack Fretless AZM Fuxa Ghost Glide Keiji Haino-Fushitsusha High Rise The Joykiller Legendary Pink Dots ( I've only got 2 of their cd's) Manic Street Preachers Ruins Saints 7% Solution Transient Waves Wesley Willis YBO2-Alienation Yellow Magic Orchestra Zodiac - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:12:41 -0500 From: Rich Williams Subject: Laswell Newsgroup? The following newsgroup appeared on my server(Super Zippo) this afternoon alt.music.bill-laswell WooHoo! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:43:17 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: My latest purchases Craig Rath wrote: > 3. Swans - Swans are Dead: A good capsule of the last years of the Swans. > Disc one is from the final tour in 97 and disc 2 is from 85. Since I > wasn't able to get a tape of the 97 show, this is a welcome addition to the > collection. Just saw this today and noticed that Vudi, the amazingly textural guitarist from American Music Club, was present on the second disc (which I'd thought to have read was from 1995, not '85. But I only looked quickly so I'll take your word for it). Anyway, how is the second disc? To what else in the Swans ouevre would you (or anyone else out there) compare it? I haven't heard anything by the Swans since "Love of Life" if that helps... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:04:50 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Dolphy [was Re: COLTRANE] ashley capps wrote: > Actually, Jesse, your memory is pretty good and Steve's mistaken. Dolphy is > most definitely on MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS MINGUS on all but 2 of the 7 > original tracks, plus he appears on the CDs bonus track. Serves me right for referring to the goddamned Penguin Guide (third ed., page 911) instead of the CD itself. Jesse - here's notice that once in a while I blow it... ;-) And Ashley, thanks for adding one more item to my ridiculously long "must purchase" list... grrrrr... ;-) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:15:40 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Cujo - "Adventures in Foam" My thanks to Yves Dewulf and Dave Trenkel for their recent posts regarding Cujo (Amon Tobin)'s disc "Adventures in Foam." I went out and bought it tonight, and it's one of the most interesting and innovative d'n'b releases I've ever heard. Many Zornlisters will remember me as being somewhat of an an outspoken Luddite regarding d'n'b (thanks mainly to spending a lot of money on a certain Spring Heel Jack import after it was featured [and favorably reviewed] by a certain 65 year old Village Voice rock critic), but I've since been converted by Squarepusher, Photek and Mu-ziq, and this here Cujo album is *the shit*, Zorn sample or no Zorn sample. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com np: Oval, "Systemisch" (thanks again Vince) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:27:33 -0600 From: clockwise Subject: Re: Cujo - "Adventures in Foam" It may sound cheesy, but if you LIKE Cujo, you'll *LOVE* Amon Tobin.....'Bricolage' was one of the greatest albums of '97 in my not-so-humble-opinion. clockwise At 03:15 AM 1/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >My thanks to Yves Dewulf and Dave Trenkel for their recent posts >regarding Cujo (Amon Tobin)'s disc "Adventures in Foam." I went out and >bought it tonight, and it's one of the most interesting and innovative >d'n'b releases I've ever heard. Many Zornlisters will remember me as >being somewhat of an an outspoken Luddite regarding d'n'b (thanks mainly >to spending a lot of money on a certain Spring Heel Jack import after it >was featured [and favorably reviewed] by a certain 65 year old Village >Voice rock critic), but I've since been converted by Squarepusher, >Photek and Mu-ziq, and this here Cujo album is *the shit*, Zorn sample >or no Zorn sample. > >Steve Smith >ssmith36@sprynet.com >np: Oval, "Systemisch" (thanks again Vince) > > >- > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:58:24 +0000 From: Scott Russell Subject: Rough Assemblage - --MimeMultipartBoundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all Further to my recent E# posting I forgot to mention I alos have the Rough Assemblage disc, Construction and Deconstruction (or suchlike) for exchange. It's on the Avant label and falls into the quirky, percussive, modern composition type category. Any suggestions, lemme know. Scott Russell - --MimeMultipartBoundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:19:29 +0100 (MEZ) From: BJOERN Subject: videos....film and music..? anyone know of a website like cdnow which is specialized in videos??? important: i am from europe so it should be a european site which sells videos in PAL format BJOERN - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:24:35 -0500 From: Zachary Subject: SWANS (was: Re: My latest purchases) At 02:43 AM 1/25/98 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: >> 3. Swans - Swans are Dead: A good capsule of the last years of the Swans. >> Disc one is from the final tour in 97 and disc 2 is from 85. Since I >> wasn't able to get a tape of the 97 show, this is a welcome addition to the >> collection. > >Just saw this today and noticed that Vudi, the amazingly textural guitarist from >American Music Club, was present on the second disc (which I'd thought to have >read was from 1995, not '85. But I only looked quickly so I'll take your word for >it). Anyway, how is the second disc? To what else in the Swans ouevre would you >(or anyone else out there) compare it? I haven't heard anything by the Swans >since "Love of Life" if that helps... Ahh, SWANS... _Love of Life_ was followed by _Omniscience_ (1992, Young God/Sky Records), a quasi-live album of material from the previous tour. It's all right, but highly experimental and adventurous. It completes some thought that were laid out with _Love of Life_ and especially _White Light From the Mouth of Infinity_. This was followed by the utterly mindblowing _The Great Annihilator_ (1994, Invisible Records), which to me is the pinnacle of SWANS lifespan. It continues to produce beauty from noise, and it begins to delve into the "sonic landscapes" that would dominate their live shows and subsequent recordings. Disc 2 of _SWANS Are Dead_ is recorded from this tour, 1995. Just when things couldn't get any better, M. Gira and Jarboe simultaneously released solo records (Gira with _Drainland_ and Jarboe with _Sacrificial Cake_, both 1995, Alternative Tentacles Records). _Drainland_ continued with M. Gira's sonic experimentation and expounded his minimalist nature (a lot of semi-acoustic songs), while Jarboe's work was to me, well, weird. She herself admitted that many people, mainly the male listening audience, wouldn't get it. SWANS prepared their fans for the end with _Die Tur ist Zu_ (several versions released, mine is 1996 RTD Records). Most of the songs are sung in German, and many reappeared in English on the final SWANS studio album, _Soundtracks For the Blind_ (1996, Young God Records). Two CDs of noise, texture, and new material that is completely unlike anything I'd run across (including previous SWANS). Quite slow and loud. Young God Records are starting to re-release the entire back catalogue of SWANS and SWANS-related material, all in deluxe 2-CD packaging with extra tracks where appropriate. Already reissued are _Children of God_/_World of Skin_ (1986-1988), soon to be followed by _Cop_/_Young God_/_Greed_/_Holy Money_ (1984-1986), which encompasses their more abrasive days as a New York sonic nightmare; _Filth_/_Body to Body, Job to Job_/_1982 EP_ (1982-1986), which totals their first studio recording, a collection of live samples and tape loops, and what I'm assuming is their cover EP of Joy Division's "Love Will Tear Us Apart"; the change of attitude that makes up _The Burning World_/_Ten Songs From Another World_/_White Light From the Mouth of Infinity_/_Love of Life_; then later in the year a CD of rarities and more solo projects from M. Gira and Jarboe. Of course, you could have found all this out at . - -Zachary (who apologizes for the lack of Zorn in this horribly long message) - - _________________________ )) Zachary (( [|**| zachary@netwalk.com |**|] |__| "Coffee Cures Everything" |__| - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #215 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.