From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #255 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, March 4 1998 Volume 02 : Number 255 In this issue: - Re: Filmworks VIII Re: Filmworks VIII Re: Filmworks VIII Re: "new music from the usa" Re: The Big Gundown Dave Douglas' Sanctuary Re: FMP recs? Re: FMP recs? Re: FMP recs? Re: FMP recs? Re: FMP recs? Re: Dave Douglas' Sanctuary Naked City - Radio scores of scores re: daxophone Re: Filmworks VIII Re: Ornette Coleman Re: Naked City - Radio Re: Ornette Coleman Re: Naked City - Radio The Many Masada CDs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:15:00 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII > Am I the only person who's noticed that the entire bridge of 'Maskil' (one > of the Ribot/Cohen duets on Bar Kokhba) is straight from 'Sunrise, Sunset' > from "Fiddler on the Roof?" It's almost too long a phrase for me to think > it's pure coincidence; I'm starting to be of the opinion that JZ is having > some fun with us... Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you could find pieces that matched most of the Masada/Bar Kokhba tunes. They mostly have very simple chord structures, and there's nothing too spectacular about the chords in the bridge of Maskil. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:04:50 +0100 From: Yves Dewulf Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII > Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you could find pieces that matched most of > the Masada/Bar Kokhba tunes. They mostly have very simple chord structures, > and there's nothing too spectacular about the chords in the bridge of > Maskil. The first tune on CD 1 of Bar Kokhba (Gevurah) actually sounds as a clone of Misirlou by Dick Dale (of Pulp Fiction-Fame) YVes - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:09:45 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII > The first tune on CD 1 of Bar Kokhba (Gevurah) actually sounds as > a clone of Misirlou by Dick Dale (of Pulp Fiction-Fame) A while ago I borrowed a CD of his off a friend and I've got to say I was extremely unimpressed to find that half of the songs or more had that very same chord structure (unimaginative switching between E and F), and the other half were very dull attempts at 12 bar blues. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 10:33:24 +0000 From: patRice Subject: Re: "new music from the usa" no. in the ads i've seen in the papers it doesnt' say what pieces will be performed. but i'll let you know as soon as i've found out more... patRice Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, patRice wrote: > > > the "ensemble collegium novum zurich" > > performs works by mark dresser, george e. lewis, john zorn > > Do you know which Zorn they'll be doing? > - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- > |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| > ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| > |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:27:29 GMT0BST From: DR S WILKIE Subject: Re: The Big Gundown The Big Gundown finishes with a nice arrangemnt of the big electric guitar theme for Once Upon a Time In The West, (Robert Quine is one of the guitarists) which is also a MUST SEE spaghetti western. It's a film with a slow pace, which seems natural after the incredible opening sequence, and makes the dialogue seem more poignant, as though everyone were choosing their words carefully. In a touch of genius, Leone cast Henry Fonda as the cold blooded killer for the big business interests. The scenes are often balletic (?!) and I believe some of them were filmed with the music playing to cue the action ... rather than it being added to fit the film. The Zorn album I find patchy in places: but it has other inspired pieces; the opening music for The Battle of Algiers, and a fabulous piece with Big John Patton on organ (but playing in a style we'd never heard from him before) and both "sexy Italian" and erotic groaning vocals. Sean W - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:42:47 +0100 From: "J.T. de Boer" Subject: Dave Douglas' Sanctuary Hi, I'm new on the list, so maybe you've talked about this album already. Anyway, can someone tell me what it's like? Thanks, Jeroen de Boer - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 07:49:59 -0500 (EST) From: "R. Lynn Rardin" Subject: Re: FMP recs? Tom Pratt wrote: > With all of this talk about Hans Reichel, I have to ask - what FMP > discs do you guys like the best?? Geez, there are so many to choose from! :^) I'll mention one that I haven't seen on others' lists, but there are many others: Marilyn Crispell & Irene Schweizer: Overlapping Hands: Eight Segments (1990; FMP CD 30) This is a live performance by two masterful pianists. Crispell and Schweizer work together amazingly well, yet have very distinctive sounds. I can't recommend Schweizer highly enough. Everything I've heard by Schweizer is pretty damn good to amazing and I'm constantly on the lookout for more (mostly on Intakt,though, not FMP). - -Lynn - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:06:38 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: FMP recs? >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Pratt writes: Tom> what FMP discs do you guys like the best?? In addition to Machine Gun (which really is essential), I'd also recommend most highly FMP 49, King Ubu (both u's with umlauts) Orchestra, Binaurality. This is one of those textural albums where you wonder what instrument could possibly be making the sounds you hear. Georg Katzer plays computer and electronics, and he has a long background in electroacoustic music, including some pieces on ReR. Peter Van Bergen is one of my favorite noisy sax players, noisy in the sense that you wonder how a sax can make those sounds. Phil Wachsmann is well known in the field of electroacoustic improvisation, especially with the recent releases on Gushwachs and the Parker Electroacoustic Ensemble. A stellar release all the way around, recommended to everyone who liked Archery, Gushwachs, or the new Parker. I'd also recommend Die Like a Dog (FMP 64), which by a pleasant coincidence was in the CD player on the way to work this morning. Brotzmann, William Parker, and Hamid Drake are excellent as always, but the clincher for me is Toshinori Kondo on trumpet and electronics. I'm not always a huge fan of acoustic free jazz, and I very much appreciate the strangeness that can be introduced by some form of electronics. Kondo definitely supplies the strangeness, but in small doses. Sometimes this sounds like free improvised acoustic quartet, but when the electronics start it gets other worldly. There is ample room for everyone to solo, so there is quite a bit of variety on the disk. I've also got FMP 68, Open Paper Tree, a sax trio with Michel Doneda, Paul Rogers, and Le Quan Ninh. I like Ninh's work a lot, he's very noisy and imaginative when it comes to found sounds and percussion, but I found the sound quality of this live release to be a bit muddy. The music, of course, is excellent. Thanks for the tip on the web site. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:56:55 -0500 (EST) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: FMP recs? On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tom Pratt wrote: > With all of this talk about Hans Reichel, I have to ask - what FMP discs > do you guys like the best?? the cecil taylor / derek bailey duo cd is worth having if you're interested in either of those gentlemen. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 00:09:43 +0000 From: Yin Pin Subject: Re: FMP recs? i don't know how anyone could have failed to mention the many cecil taylor releases. (FMP cd2-cd6, cd8/9, 11, 25 & the list goes on) >FMP CD24 >Peter Brotzmann Octet (incl. Brotzmann, Parker, Kowald, Bennink, etc.) >Machine Gun (1968) an inquiry: how many on this list own a copy of brotzmann sextet/quartet '69 _nipples_? (not on FMP) intense, mindblowing jazz-noise from broztmann-evan parker-derek bailey - -fred van hove-buschi niegergall-han bennink. - -pin - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 08:05:46 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: FMP recs? On Thu, 05 Mar 1998 00:09:43 +0000 Yin Pin wrote: > > i don't know how anyone could have failed to mention > the many cecil taylor releases. > (FMP cd2-cd6, cd8/9, 11, 25 & the list goes on) > > >FMP CD24 > >Peter Brotzmann Octet (incl. Brotzmann, Parker, Kowald, Bennink, etc.) > >Machine Gun (1968) > > an inquiry: how many on this list own a copy of brotzmann > sextet/quartet '69 _nipples_? (not on FMP) > intense, mindblowing jazz-noise from broztmann-evan parker-derek bailey > -fred van hove-buschi niegergall-han bennink. I do (left in France like most of my records :-(. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:35:13 -0600 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Dave Douglas' Sanctuary Jeroen, Sanctuary is a "double band" kind of thing for the nineties. One drummer, one sax, two trumpets, two basses, and two samplers. I'll start off by saying that it's great. Chris Speed is the sax player, someone that I've been really enjoying listening to (his disc Yeah No and any of Tim Berne's Bloodcount). Sanctuary, though, is a long flowing piece that goes between sections where the whole ensemble plays to just basses to just trumpets... basically all over the place. There are points when one of the guys gets a hip-hop type beat going on the sampler and the drummer basically sits out except for accents and fills. I recommend it. I don't know what else to say except listen to it. Oh, by the way, Jeroen. I never received those tapes you were going to send me back in October. Did you ever send them? It was a pretty big trade (7) and I hope you haven't forgotten. Go listen to Sanctuary. Dan >I'm new on the list, so maybe you've talked about this album already. >Anyway, can someone tell me what it's like? > >Thanks, > >Jeroen de Boer - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:58:48 -0600 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Naked City - Radio Hey folks, I was looking in the Penguin Guide the other day and I checked out the Zorn and Naked City (different listings) reviews and I was a little surprised. Naked City got pretty low ratings and Radio got the worst. I guess for Naked City maybe it's doesn't express the same ideas as Torture Garden or the latter half of Grand Gugnol (sp?) but I like it the best. In fact as far as taking popular-ish/more common music and fucking with it hard core I think Radio does a great job. Because it starts off "normal" and gets progressively harsh and aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!! I think it does it's job quite well. The progression is great from Sunset Surfer to whatever some of the later tracks are called. Metaltov. Oh and Triggerfingers! What a great tune. Well, regardless of all of that, my roomate pointed something out to me this morning. There are all of those influences listed in the liner notes and they are grouped and separated by slashes (/). There are nineteen tracks and nineteen groups of influences. Man, that'll be a tough one to figure out. Has anyone noticed this before and if so has anyone matched the influences to the tracks? Interesting... Oh yeah I forgot to mention the Masada ratings in the Penguin Guide. Alef (one) got the best and two and three got the next best. Five and six were the only other ones in there and they got worse ratings than two and three. They said that the later ones are just repetitive and more of the same and despensible. Damn. Oh well. For the record, I disagree. I'm just waiting for the box to come out so I can have them all. Does anyone know if there is any word on the release of this. Also, when is ten supposed to come out. Also, does DIW have a website. Also, that's enough, bye. Dan - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:19:38 +0000 From: "Andrew R. Miller" Subject: scores of scores Dear Zornlist, Does anyone out there know how I can get ahold of John Zorn scores/parts (ie: sheet music). Andrew Miller motion@nb.sympatico.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:14:13 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Toussaint Subject: re: daxophone =46or those of you interested in more daxophone recordings, I have to mentio= n two great CD's by Jean Derome et les dangereux zhoms. It is Rene Lussier who plays the instrument. The first CD is called 'Carnets de voyage' (AM032CD) and the second one is 'Navr=E9' (AM038CD). Both ar available on th= e Ambiance Magnetique Label e-mail: dame_cd@cam.org - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:04:52 -0600 From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:04:50 +0100 Yves Dewulf writes: > >> Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you could find pieces that matched >most of >> the Masada/Bar Kokhba tunes. They mostly have very simple chord >structures, >> and there's nothing too spectacular about the chords in the bridge >of >> Maskil. > > The first tune on CD 1 of Bar Kokhba (Gevurah) actually sounds as > a clone of Misirlou by Dick Dale (of Pulp Fiction-Fame) > > YVes Actually. 'Misrlou' is a traditional Greek (?) song. Dick Dale just played it reall echoey-like. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:33:59 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman I described _Virgin Beauty_ and _Tone Dialing_ as "uncluttered-sounding" in one post and "cluttered" in another. Oooops. Let me clarify: They wouldn't sound like a wall of noise to even the most virgin ear (unlike, say, the Prime Time material on _In All Languages_), but they are cluttered in detail. I suspect it's this combination strikes many listeners as soupy and unfocused. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:45:06 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Naked City - Radio On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > There are nineteen > tracks and nineteen groups of influences. Man, that'll be a tough one to > figure out. Has anyone noticed this before and if so has anyone matched > the influences to the tracks? Interesting... While I couldn't make sense of all of them, I think they're listed in order. > Oh yeah I forgot to mention the Masada ratings in the Penguin Guide. Alef > (one) got the best and two and three got the next best. Five and six were > the only other ones in there and they got worse ratings than two and three. > They said that the later ones are just repetitive and more of the same and > despensible. Damn. This is probably the result of listening to each disc once, in sequence. I don't think many people who've seriously checked out the whole series would pick _Alef_ as the best of the series. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:02:29 -0500 From: Jeff Schwartz Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > I described _Virgin Beauty_ and _Tone Dialing_ as "uncluttered-sounding" > in one post and "cluttered" in another. Oooops. Let me clarify: They > wouldn't sound like a wall of noise to even the most virgin ear (unlike, > say, the Prime Time material on _In All Languages_), but they > are cluttered in detail. I suspect it's this combination strikes many > listeners as soupy and unfocused. > > Chris Hamilton > > - I don't care for Denardo as a producer. The earlier Prime Time albums sound like 6 or seven people playing-the ones he produced have this unpleasant sound which I think of as digital. Even the quartet part of In All Languages has peculiar reverbs and such. This makes the unavailability of Of Human Feelings and Live at the Caravan of Dreams especially annoying and the reissue of Body Meta a particularly cool thing. Of course, as many of y'all have said, the Atlantic recordings (especially Change of the Century & The Shape of Jazz to Come & This is Our Music) are the essential Ornette and I am a huge fan of the trio with David Izenson and Charles Moffett. Izenson's influence on bass playing is enormous. While a bunch of other folks were in the smae place at the same time, bringing techniques from avant-classical music into jazz (like Gary Peacock, Richard Davis, and Ronnie Boykins) and extending the possibilities of the instrument from there, there's something about Izenson's playing which is unique. It probably has to do with playing with Ornette, who (especially with this trio) encourages if not demands his sidemen to avoid the conventional. Izenson taught some of today's cool bassists-I don't remember exactly who-Lindberg, Dresser, Helias? The two Blue Note albums are the must-haves from this band. There's a bunch of other stuff, but the recording quality is not always what it could be, and the legal status of some releases is dubious (for those who care about such things).Look for Who's Crazy, An Evening with Ornette Coleman, and Town Hall Concert, especially the first two. - -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:04:09 -0500 (EST) From: William R Baker Subject: Re: Naked City - Radio A Radio fun fact: I am almost sure that "Sunset Surfer" is a Naked City arrangement of The Cynical Hysterical Hour theme. just compare it to "surfing Samba" on Filmworks VII. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:13:03 -0500 From: Jeff Schwartz Subject: The Many Masada CDs I agree. I am listening to Tet right now, and it definitely is one of my favorites. The compositions are not as catchy as on the first few, where some of the heads would actually stick in my head and I'd find myself humming them at work, but the sound seems better. The bass is more audible and plays a more compositional role (instead of walking or droning most of the time). This is mostly a first impression-I haven't listened to all the albums at once or anything and don't have 7 or 8. Oh yeah, add my name to the list of people who are going to be irritated if Tzadik puts out a box set of the DIW Masadas. It will surely cost less than having bought them at import prices & I'd rather see Tzadik put out material that's either new or has been unavailable (live Naked City! stuff from the KF ZornFest! Great Jewish Music Leonard Bernstein!) Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > Oh yeah I forgot to mention the Masada ratings in the Penguin Guide. Alef > > (one) got the best and two and three got the next best. Five and six were > > the only other ones in there and they got worse ratings than two and three. > > They said that the later ones are just repetitive and more of the same and > > despensible. Damn. > > This is probably the result of listening to each disc once, in sequence. > I don't think many people who've seriously checked out the whole series > would pick _Alef_ as the best of the series. > > Chris Hamilton > > - - -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #255 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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