From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #270 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, March 23 1998 Volume 02 : Number 270 In this issue: - Ives, Partch, Xenakis Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk Re: Musique Concrete Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Victoriaville '98 Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Re: Partch, Xenakis Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Re: Xenakis Re: MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Re: MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk Re: musique concrete Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Re: MMW/Scofield ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:11:57 -0800 From: Greg Mills Subject: Ives, Partch, Xenakis I know I plumb this list for all its worth, recommendation wise, but what am I to do? I have socially retarded friends. Today's requested recos: Ives, Partch, Xenakis. Where should I start? - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:24:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Cappy D'Angelo" Subject: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Have you guys heard Paul Dolden's work? He's already kind of a Legend in Canada (at least the West Coast), and people seem to either love him or hate him (though this might have more to do with his personality than his music). Generally, Dolden makes his own recordings with all acoustic instruments, than layers them to create new sounds etc. The instruments and ensembles are sometimes recognizable, while at times they are layered hundreds thick. Some samples are longer while sometimes hundreds may be present in one second of sound. The compositions are often very rhythmic, and he's not afraid to sound "jazz' or "rock" when appropriate (whatever that means). My favorites are the works for tape and one acoustic (though usually amplified) solo instrument. Several recordings are available in Canada, but I don't know which distributers carry them. "Beyond the Walls of Jerico" is a good starting point - one of his less subtle works(!). BTW, I'm still working on getting that Oswald info - should have it any day now... Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:29:25 -0500 From: Bob Kowalski Subject: MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk Would anyone venture a yeah / neah vote for any of the MMW albums. One over the others? In particular, the one w/ Ribot on guitar ("Its a jungle out there") ? Also, any recommendations (or boos from peanut gallery) for soundtrack to "The Tango Lesson"? I've yet to see the film but enjoyed "Orlando" very much (both film & sndtrk.) Happy Oscar Day Bob - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:45:56 -0500 From: jkan@javanet.com Subject: Re: Musique Concrete >Luigi Nono (often overlooked amazing Italian composer) is a favorite with >"Guai Ai Gelidi Mostri", "Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima" and "La Lontanaza >nostalgica ...", all CDs on Montaigne Hmm... my copy of "Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima" (on Disques Montaigne) is not particularly concrete -- it's a string quartet piece.... Is there another version? >Xenakis ... "Kraanerg" is pure brilliance, as another list member already >attested to. The version on Asphodel from 1996 is highly recommended. >I don't have it, but his "Electro-Acoustic Music" LP (out of print, of >course) is very highly sought after. As far as I can tell, EMF/INA-GRM recently re-released "Electro-Acoustic Music" -- with 2 additional pieces from 1970 and 1992 -- under the equally imaginative title "Electronic Music." Or at least that's my guess, since I was never able to find a copy of the original.... Jim //========================================================================= // Jim Kan (jkan@javanet.com) // // However far you may travel in this world, you will still occupy // the same volume of space. // Traditional Ur-Bororo saying //========================================================================= - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 98 13:32:37 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Greg, Ives--I'm not too familiar with specific recordings, but I always enjoyed the ones of Ives himself banging on the piano and, um, singing things like 'The Battle Cry of Freedom' Partch--Clearly, the CRI series is a great place to start. I'd say begin with Vol II, which includes the wonderful 'Petals...', possibly the easiest entry into Partch's music. Unless, of course. you can find a copy of 'Delusion of the Fury', a desert island selection of mine. Xenakis--Recent excellent CD issues include 'Electro-Acoustic Music' (mostly a reissue of the classic Nonesuch recording from around 1970) and 'La Legende d'Eer'. Happy listening, Brian Olewnick ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Author: Greg Mills at SMTP-for-MSSM Date: 3/23/98 10:11 AM I know I plumb this list for all its worth, recommendation wise, but what am I to do? I have socially retarded friends. Today's requested recos: Ives, Partch, Xenakis. Where should I start? - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:07:36 -0600 From: Rusty Crump Subject: Victoriaville '98 Could somebody direct me to further information about this year's Victoriaville festival? Is there a web site where I can find info beyond the artist lineup, like costs, travel, lodging, etc? There is a .001% chance of my being able to go this year, but the logistics such a trip from the wilds of Mississippi are no small thing. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:04:03 -0800 From: "Keith McMullen" Subject: Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Try Ives' SONATAS FOR VIOLIN AND PIANO...stunning. The original Nonesuch are the best...with Zukovsky on violin. Also, his solo piano stuff knocks my socks off and I am not a solo piano fan. Keith - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:10:36 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis >>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick writes: gregm> requested recos: Ives, Partch, Xenakis. gregm> should I start? brian> Partch--Clearly, the CRI series is a great place to brian> start. I'd say begin with Vol II, which includes the brian> wonderful 'Petals...', possibly the easiest entry into brian> Partch's music. Unless, of course. you can find a copy of brian> 'Delusion of the Fury', a desert island selection of mine. Volume 4 in the new set is a long theatrical piece, Bewitched, which is somewhat similar to Delusion (which is unquestionably the best Partch -- absolutely inexcusable for Columbia to have left this out of print). brian> Xenakis--Recent excellent CD issues include brian> 'Electro-Acoustic Music' (mostly a reissue of the classic brian> Nonesuch recording from around 1970) and 'La Legende brian> d'Eer'. I'd have to agree with these too. I picked up Iannissimo!, claiming to be volume 2 of a projected complete works, and was disappointed. These recordings of his orchestral and chamber works don't have the same power as some other (sadly available only on vinyl) recordings I've heard. I also remember a tape work Persepolis, which was designed to be broadcast throughout a massive outdoor space. Very powerful music. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:26:04 -0500 (EST) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: Partch, Xenakis On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > Partch--Clearly, the CRI series is a great place to start. I'd say > begin with Vol II, which includes the wonderful 'Petals...', possibly > the easiest entry into Partch's music. Unless, of course. you can find > a copy of 'Delusion of the Fury', a desert island selection of mine. i picked up volume I of the four recent cri partch reissues on the recommendation of someone on this list, and i would say that it is also highly recommendable. kind of like an american gamelan often with partch's sometimes poignant, sometimes nonsensical vocals overtop. i love it. > Xenakis--Recent excellent CD issues include 'Electro-Acoustic Music' > (mostly a reissue of the classic Nonesuch recording from around 1970) > and 'La Legende d'Eer'. i believe the one on emf is simply titled _electronic music_. it is essential. hard to believe some of it dates back 40 years. _la legende d'er_ is not as accessible and is often downright discordant, but definitely worth pursuing if you like the emf disc. i also think the recording of "pleides" on harmonia mundi is really hot. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 98 14:14:31 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete I caught a performance of a piece for tape and sextet of Dolden's at last year's Bang On A Can marathon. I recall enjoying the tape portion (as you said, very dense and rich), but thought the interaction between the tape and the live performers was negligible. I would much rather have simply listened to the tape (FWIW, this reaction was shared by several posters on rec.music.classical.contemporary at the time). Unfortunately, Mr. Dolden was interviewed on stage after the piece and came off as, to put it politely, a pompous ass. Unfair, I know, but it kinda soured me on pursuing his work. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Author: "Cappy D'Angelo" at SMTP-for-MSSM Date: 3/23/98 10:24 AM Have you guys heard Paul Dolden's work? He's already kind of a Legend in Canada (at least the West Coast), and people seem to either love him or hate him (though this might have more to do with his personality than his music). Generally, Dolden makes his own recordings with all acoustic instruments, than layers them to create new sounds etc. The instruments and ensembles are sometimes recognizable, while at times they are layered hundreds thick. Some samples are longer while sometimes hundreds may be present in one second of sound. The compositions are often very rhythmic, and he's not afraid to sound "jazz' or "rock" when appropriate (whatever that means). My favorites are the works for tape and one acoustic (though usually amplified) solo instrument. Several recordings are available in Canada, but I don't know which distributers carry them. "Beyond the Walls of Jerico" is a good starting point - one of his less subtle works(!). BTW, I'm still working on getting that Oswald info - should have it any day now... Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:27:55 -0500 From: Glenn Lea Subject: Re: Xenakis bburton@CapAccess.org wrote: > > i believe the one on emf is simply titled _electronic music_. it is > essential. hard to believe some of it dates back 40 years. _la legende > d'er_ is not as accessible and is often downright discordant, but > definitely worth pursuing if you like the emf disc. i also think the > recording of "pleides" on harmonia mundi is really hot. I'd agree on all points and add the incredible 2-disc "Chamber Music" by the Arditti Quartet + piano on Auvidis Montaigne. Not your usual chamber music. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:40:29 -0600 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk I like all of the MMW albums but I can rank them for you (IMO). 1. Shack Man 2. Friday Afternoon in the Universe 3. Notes From the Underground 4. It's a Jungle in Here Don't expect too much from the one w/Ribot. He isn't to prominent, not to mention that he isn't on all the tracks. Shack Man is the latest and my favorite. It's packed with little funk nuggets, as I heard it described - It's a true description. The tunes are great and it's less "jazzy" than Notes or Jungle. I like Notes because they're doing an acoustic trio thing. Medeski plays piano the whole disc and they play tunes like Caravan and Orbits which are great. About Ribot, get one of the live tapes with him guesting on a few tunes. I really enjoy the ones that I have heard. There's also a tape out there with Trey Anastasio of Phish playing with them. If you know Trey and the way he plays, this tape will surprise you. I think it's a pretty good one as well. I was intrigued by that Oren Bloedow Knitting Factory disc with MMW in the band but the realaudio sample didn't do much for me. I'm really waiting to hear the John Scofield album with MMW too. Hope this helps... Dan - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:42:42 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete >>>>> "Cappy" == Cappy D'Angelo writes: Cappy> Have you guys heard Paul Dolden's work? He's already kind Cappy> of a Legend in Canada (at least the West Coast), and people Cappy> seem to either love him or hate him (though this might have Cappy> more to do with his personality than his music). I almost mentioned Dolden in my list of essential composers, but listening to one whole CD of his work (I have his CD Threshold of Deafening Silence) is exhausting. Thanks for the tip on his personality, I'll try to avoid interviews ;-). - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:50:44 -0600 From: JRZ Subject: Re: MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk At 01:29 PM 3/23/98 -0500, Bob Kowalski wrote: >Would anyone venture a yeah / neah vote for any of the MMW albums. >One over the others? In particular, the one w/ Ribot on guitar ("Its a >jungle out there") ? My fave is "Friday Afternoon in the Universe". It's got a lot more of the B3/vintage keys/Jimmy Smith vibes than the early ones and stretches out a lot more than "Shack Man". "Shack Man" is more of a reference album for their live shows. It's got a lot of great Meters-esque grooves on it but doesn't lay out at all. I loved it for a month but hardly listen to it anymore. "Notes from the Underground" is great too, it's all acoustic tho and isn't very representitive of what they're doing now. Ribot only plays on 1 or 2 tracks on IAJIH. He tears shit up on "Worms" but if you're buying it to listen to him you'll be disappointed. zube http://www.winternet.com/~zube/index.htm If anyone objects to any statement I make. I am not only prepared to retract the statement, but to deny under oath that I ever made it - Tom Lehrer - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:55:12 -0500 (EST) From: ia zha nah er vesen Subject: Re: musique concrete > Concerning the differences, if they exist, between 'pop' > electroacoustic music like Hafler Trio, NWW, (perhaps Imbalance), > etc., and 'classical' music like Empreintes Digitales, INA-GRM, > etc. (this kind of music is also beastly difficult to describe): I > feel like there is more going on in the classical pieces. The image > of a movie for the ears seems more apt than it does for a Hafler Trio > piece, which seems to create a strange and unearthly atmosphere, but > doesn't have the flow and transitions of a movie (if a Hafler Trio > piece were a movie, it would be like one of those extremely static > Warhol-type movies). Perhaps another way to say this is that the > individual semantic units in classical works are smaller and shorter > than they are with pop ones? > > This is of course an extreme overgeneralization, so here's another. > Brian Olenwick recently commented on the tension-release model in > Anthony Braxton's music, and maybe this is another difference. I > don't hear as much tension-release in Hafler Trio or Zoviet France as > I do in Parmegiani or Normandeau or Xenakis (what could be more > tension-release than Legendes of Eer). Now that i think of it, the 'pop' electroacousticians do tend toward long, sprawling, somewhat static pieces... Interesting point. I'll have to sit down with my recently-aquired stack of old electroacoustic vinyl and think about this one for a while. Two immediate counter-examples which comes to mind (although i think the point you're making is probably true, for the most part) are the pieces 'masturbatorium' and 'fuck' by the Hafler Trio. They have complementary schemes, with the first one gradually building in volume/density/speed over 17minutes or so, and the second one doing, roughly, the reverse kind of thing in about twice the length. 'Masturbatorium' especially struck me with its well-crafted progression. - -jascha - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:43:46 -0800 From: "Keith McMullen" Subject: Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete >I caught a performance of a piece for tape and sextet of Dolden's at > last year's Bang On A Can marathon There was avery positive review of a recent release by Band On A Can doing Eno's 'Music For Airports.' Anyone heard it? Keith - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:03:32 -0600 From: Rusty Crump Subject: Re: MMW/Scofield >I like all of the MMW albums but I can rank them for you (IMO). > >1. Shack Man >2. Friday Afternoon in the Universe >3. Notes From the Underground >4. It's a Jungle in Here > >Don't expect too much from the one w/Ribot. He isn't to prominent, not to >mention that he isn't on all the tracks. Shack Man is the latest and my >favorite. It's packed with little funk nuggets, as I heard it described - >It's a true description. The tunes are great and it's less "jazzy" than >Notes or Jungle. I like Notes because they're doing an acoustic trio >thing. Medeski plays piano the whole disc and they play tunes like Caravan >and Orbits which are great. > ... > >I was intrigued by that Oren Bloedow Knitting Factory disc with MMW in the >band but the realaudio sample didn't do much for me. I'm really waiting to >hear the John Scofield album with MMW too. > >Hope this helps... > >Dan I got an advance copy of "A-Go-Go" with Scofield, and I must say, I'm underwhelmed. I don't have the writerly chops to give a good detailed review, but the few tracks I've listened to so far didn't put any sweat on my upper lip. MMW don't do anything to distinguish themselves -- they submerge their personalities strictly in service to Scofield, whose ideas seem worthy of a couple of tracks rather than a whole album. But who knows, I may listen to it again in a couple of days and love it. Some albums are like that (like SY's Daydream Nation, which I hated the first five times I listened to it, & loved from then on). Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #270 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. 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