From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #282 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, March 31 1998 Volume 02 : Number 282 In this issue: - RE: the far side Re: Naked City Re: Naked City Re: Bondage Re: Naked City Re: Naked City Re: the far side Re: Naked City Gone, Just Like a Train Re: Naked City Re: Peter Thomas Where to get the Bible Launcher CD Re: Peter Thomas 20 essential records Re: Naked City Re: Naked City Re: Naked City Re: Scorn Re: Naked City Re: Naked City ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 09:19:07 +1000 From: Rohan James Parkes Subject: RE: the far side I was waiting to see the special, which was shown here for the first = time a few days ago, but I have to say I didn't care for it much. = Unrelentingly morbid and depressing, and I thought some of the humour = wasn't very convincing. But then I've always found Larson's humour to be = patchy.=20 Frisell's soundtrack is too low in the mix, and I was rather = disappointed to see that he only got a standard credit at the end. (And = the credits rolled by too quickly.) Rohan Parkes The Something Else Show 3-PBS FM Melbourne Australia http://www.vicnet.net.au/~pbsfm/jazz/default.html - -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Lea [SMTP:glenn_lea@avid.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 1:42 AM To: zorn-list Subject: Re: the far side rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: >=20 > By the way, I haven't seen this special either - has anyone? I saw it. Funny and really sick. For example, one segment was about an = "dude ranch" for dead people who couldn't seem to keep all their body parts attached. It deserves a video release. - - =00=00 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:39:32 -0800 From: George Grella Subject: Re: Naked City William York writes: > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol, and are also available on the > Black Box 2 CD which has torture garden. So the same performances of > those songs (10-17 from Naked City) are repeated 4 times. I'm sure this > is common knowledge to most but a lot of people, such as reviewers, don't > make this connection. In any case Torture Garden is awesome, worth > getting in one of its 3 fully avail. forms. I'm a little confused. Are the tunes the same ones on each record, in different peformances, or are they the same tunes and performances recycled on each CD? gg - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:16:26 -0500 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: Naked City George Grella wrote: > > William York writes: > > > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked > > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated > > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol, and are also available on the > > Black Box 2 CD which has torture garden. So the same performances of > > those songs (10-17 from Naked City) are repeated 4 times. I'm sure this > > is common knowledge to most but a lot of people, such as reviewers, don't > > make this connection. In any case Torture Garden is awesome, worth > > getting in one of its 3 fully avail. forms. > > I'm a little confused. Are the tunes the same ones on each record, in > different peformances, or are they the same tunes and performances > recycled on each CD? > > gg Same tunes, same performances. I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread. -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:27:03 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Bondage On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Remco Vlaanderen wrote: > 'Osaka Bondage' is a short video clip by Henri Hills, a sort of collage > clip > using images from Japanese XXX-rated trash porn supported by naked City > songs. I saw Hills present this clip along with a number of other examples of his work a couple of years ago. It's a fine piece of work, but it was made to accompany the music (not vice versa) and Hills expressed some discomfort about the bondage sequences, which he'd included because of Zorn's interest in bondage. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:39:23 -0500 From: jkan@javanet.com Subject: Re: Naked City At 06:16 PM 3/30/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote: >Same tunes, same performances. > >I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I >assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record >a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a >short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread. > > -Tom Pratt I'd guess it had something to do with Elektra/Nonesuch not being willing to release that material in its entirety. I remember _Torture Garden_ coming out on Shimmy Disc about the same time as _Naked City_, or shortly afterwards, which seems to suggest that Zorn had to find another publisher for the noisier stuff. Speculation, of course.... Jim //========================================================================= // Jim Kan (jkan@javanet.com) // // However far you may travel in this world, you will still occupy // the same volume of space. // Traditional Ur-Bororo saying //========================================================================= - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:11:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Cappy D'Angelo" Subject: Re: Naked City I too figured it had something to do with the different labels. Might it also have something to do with difficulties with distributers/retailers and certain graphics? (wasn't this the reason for the Black Box release of Torture Garden by Tzadik?) This doesn't explain much, though, as the original Torture Garden artwork seems the LEAST disturbing compared to Naked City, Grand Guignol, etc. ... I don't even own the ORIGINAL Torture Garden and I have two copies of all those tracks between NC, GG, and the Black Box (which I had to get for Leng Tche - what a great marketing ploy!) Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:29:01 -0500 From: Uncle Meat Subject: Re: the far side Yeah, on Quartet, released on Nonesuch in 1996 Julian wrote: > Is Bill Frisell's music for Tales From The Far Side available on any > of his > releases? > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 21:04:08 -0500 (EST) From: William York Subject: Re: Naked City > > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked > > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated > > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol > Actually, Grand Guignol contains all of Torture garden EXCEPT > the thrash songs from Naked City. I guess that's why no one mentions it! I don't have G.G. but I borrowed and could have sworn it was the same thing. Anyway, here's another comment that may be off base, but when listening to Radio, another one I don't own, and reading the influences listed in the liner notes, I thought the influences were pretty clear. The Stravinsky/Stallings one, the one that cited the Ruins, and the Webern/Sinatra one stood out as being pretty clear. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 23:08:02 -0500 From: chasinthetrane@juno.com (Jamie F Graves) Subject: Gone, Just Like a Train >The fourth person is Curtis Fowlkes on trombone and "Quartet" is an >outstanding cd; by the way, any opinions on "Gone like a train"? I'm still deciding on that CD. I bought it the week it came out, was at first dissapointed with the CD, then it grew on me. There is nothing wrong with the CD, it just doesn't really seem as inventive or fun as either Quartet or Nashville were. Its about the most straight I've ever heard Bill play, a lot of rock and folk and this album. However, granted, some of the tracks are phenomenal. Girl Asks Boy 1&2, Wife and Kid, and Verona are worth the price of the CD. Plus the cover art is really neat, by this cartoonist thats friends with Bill. All in all, its a great album, but I'm a little dissapointed in Bill. Excellent playing from all three (Viktor Kraus and Jim Keltner are phenomenal) but it doesn't seem all that new for Bill. Any other thoughts on this disc? Jamie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 23:21:39 -0800 (PST) From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Re: Naked City . The Stravinsky/Stallings one, the one >that cited the Ruins, and the Webern/Sinatra one stood out as being pretty >clear. This is interesting! Explain the Sinatra influence. - ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books - ---------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:45:47 +1000 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Peter Thomas On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Geoff S Gersh wrote: > anyone familiar with Peter Thomas' Sound Orchestra?? > > I heard some of his music from the film Chariots of the Gods on Spinning > on Air, a radio show in NYC, the other night.....its pretty wild stuff. > "Chariots of the Gods" is great and totally destroyed! Psych-baroque-exotica freakout! Aaah: those crazy Germans - you gotta love 'em! Another great one by Thomas is: "The Spy Set". Tho', despite these gems, I haveta say - he did plenty of schlock cover versions of pop music of the day - avoid that garbage at all costs. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:06:12 +0200 From: Ulrich Gernert Subject: Where to get the Bible Launcher CD Does anyone know, where I can bye Zorns "Bible Launcher" CD, published on Radical House Records? A distributor not so far away from Berlin, Germany. Thanks Ulrich Gernert - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:02:23 -0800 (PST) From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Re: Peter Thomas I just bought the new Pulp single "This is Hardcore," and there is a sample of Thomas's "Bolero on the Moon Rocks" on it. Any comments on the Bolero record? The sample sounds great. - ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books - ---------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:07:17 +0200 (MESZ) From: BJOERN Subject: 20 essential records 1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed if you send the answers to the list THANX 2. This one goes mainly to people with CD/LP collections bigger than 1000 CDs/LPs (most of you guys I guess) so this morning i looked through my record collection this way: WHAT RECORDS WOULD I KEEP IF I COULD ONLY KEEP 20 OF THEM????? so what records would u guys keep if you could only keep 20 of your records???? i am interested in that because i am looking for essential records that i do not have yet and i am in the mood of selling lots of my stuff that is not THAT great! BJOERN http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:47:14 -0800 From: George Grella Subject: Re: Naked City Tom Pratt writes: > Same tunes, same performances. > > I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I > assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record > a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a > short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread. > Wow, this actually bothers me, and I'm less inclined to be so charitable to Zorn over it. I respect his musicianship and a lot of his work, but there's a whiff of a cynical side now and then, and this smells of it. He's turned into quite a manufacturer of his own work, with all the film CDs and all the Masada recorinds, etc., et. al. Don't get me wrong, a lot of this is great music, but there's redundancy as well, and, as this list shows, a lot of devoted fans who'll buy most of everything. I don't want to sound critical of the listeners, I'm not, hey, I paid full price for the 25 minutes of music on Film Works VII [which also troubles me]. This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that; copying tracks from one CD onto two others and selling them separately? For an improvising artist especially, that just doesn't seem right. Am I the only one who feels this way? gg P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only recording that shows a substantial variation on the other CDs, yet if it's almost the same as Pain Killer, what's the point there? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:16:35 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Naked City >>>>> "George" == George Grella writes: George> This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that; George> copying tracks from one CD onto two others and selling George> them separately? For an improvising artist especially, George> that just doesn't seem right. Am I the only one who feels George> this way? Torture Garden was released two years, and recorded one year, before the rest of Grand Guignol, and was originally 12-inch 45-rpm vinyl. So although there was some duplication with the Elektra CD, it's not like everything was available twice until much later. By the same token, Naked City didn't return to the studio again until after both the Elektra and Torture Garden were both released, and the remaining disks (except for Leng T'che) was all released on Avant (and were among the first releases on that label). So, perhaps the initial duplication was due perhaps to contractual dealings, and perhaps when GG was released, the original 45 had gone out of print. Thus perhaps the release of the extra Torture Garden material on GG provided a way to get all of the original material available again. I agree that it seems a bit cynical to release it yet again, but Leng T'che is IMHO the least listenable of all Naked City, and thus the new Tzadik release would be fairly easy to overlook (especially considering the excellent newer releases such as Angelus Novus, Duras/Duchamp, Bar Kokhba, etc.) and should be considered for completists only. Discographical details courtesy of Patrice, http://www.nwu.edu/wnur/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html (who mentions when albums are released, but unfortunately does not mention how extensive the run is or when the release disappears from general circulation (information which would no doubt be extremely difficult to obtain with any degree of reliability). - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:18:42 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Naked City >>>>> "George" == George Grella writes: George> P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only George> recording that shows a substantial variation on the other George> CDs, yet if it's almost the same as Pain Killer, what's George> the point there? Sorry, almost missed this one. While Absinthe does show a significant variation from the other CDs, it is also very different from the ambient CD of Painkiller. Absinthe is a larger group playing music, the Painkiller disk is remixes. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 06:43:19 -0500 From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Scorn Matt Moffett initially wrote: >>Wed April 1 >>Invisible Records Tour, feat. Pigface, Scorn, FM Einheit (of >>Neubaten), etc.(Scorn seems to be tentative, according to the venue >> >>they will be there, the record label seems confused) a rancid amoeba replied with, among other things: >Scorn didn't play. Atkins came on stage to tell us all that Mick >had gone to be with his wife/girlfriend/significant other (whichever >it is) who had just had a baby girl. According to another source >who'd talked to Mick by email, Invisible fucked up the paperwork >to get him into the country and he was quite pissed. I wouldn't be >surprised if he doesn't do any of the remaining dates. What I know about this combines both stories. Mick's wife Helen did just have their second child, but this was not going to prevent him from coming over to do the tour. Someone (whether at Invisible or not) _did_ fuck up his US work permit/paperwork, by not getting it in time, but _only_ for the West Coast dates (SF & L.A.) and the rest of the first half of the tour. Mick was definitely pissed off, but he will (if all goes as planned ... hmmm??) be flying in to NYC (from his home in Birmingham) on 4/1 to _start_ the remainder of the dates that he is playing. This _begins_ with the NYC date on 4/2 (includes a bunch of cities in between such as Toronto (4/7), Pontiac, MI, Chicago (4/11) etc. etc.) and _ends_ with the Milwaukee date on 4/13. Here's hoping he doesn't scrap the whole damn thing ... - -Patrick - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:29:00 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re: Naked City About Black Box: I remember Torture Garden fitting easily onto one side of a 90 minute tape (ie: under 45 minutes). I also thought LengTche was under 30 minutes. Couldn't he have pressed them both to the same disc? Although, 20 bucks for two short discs isn't too bad, I guess. Just wondering. Peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:54:20 -0500 From: Glenn Lea Subject: Re: Naked City george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com wrote: > I don't want to sound critical of the listeners, I'm not, hey, I paid full > price for the 25 minutes of music on Film Works VII... I didn't mind in this case since those 25 minutes are so damn good. It's balanced out by the first Bar Hokhba, which was two loaded CDs for under $20. However, I suggest you pass on Masada 4. > This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that; copying tracks > from one CD onto two others and selling them separately? He took about one third of a hard-to-find vinyl-only 45 EP and added them to the middle of the Naked City CD. The remaining two thirds he put on the Grand Guignol CD. I figured he was doing people a favor by making the EP's music available to CD buyers -- the resulting CDs were both quite long. Then the record company who had released the EP (Shimmydisc) decided to release it on CD and created the CD "duplication". At least that's how I remember it. I don't see it as that big a deal anyway. It's so easy now to find out what's on a CD, even hear it before you buy. You don't have to buy them all (and with Zorn, who could possibly afford to?). (BTW, how many people besides me played the EP at 33 the first time -- it sounded pretty cool that way). > P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only recording that > shows a substantial variation on the other CDs, yet if it's almost the > same as Pain Killer, what's the point there? How is it like Pain Killer? Different band, different kind of music altogether. "Heretics" is very different from "Naked City" and "Absinthe" and "Leng Tche". Have you heard any of these? "Radio" is the only one that sounds like a "variation" to me. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #282 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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