From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #297 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, April 3 1998 Volume 02 : Number 297 In this issue: - King Crimson (20 best) top 20 Top disappointments Re: Trout Mask Replica TOP 20 Re: the top 20, etc etc anyone listening? Re: Yoshihide Dates. RE: Top 20 disappointments Top 3 (was: Top 20) RE: Disappointments Re: Crimson & Astor (was Top 20) RE: Disappointments Re: Parrot Fish Eye (was 20 essential records) Re: TOP 20 RE: Disappointments Two Comments Butch Morris in today's NYTimes RE: Top 20 Egos on Parade Re: Top 20 at the moment... Re: Concerts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:54:41 +0200 (WET) From: Vadim Marmer Subject: King Crimson (20 best) King Crimson was mentioned so many times, so i decided to give it another chance, i have not listened to KC about 4 years (since i`m on Jazz). So i went to the store and picked up "Red". And i just have to say, that "Red" is Great! How could i forget it for so long period?! - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 20:20:54 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: top 20 As if you're not sick enough of all this already, here's another one: (in no particular order) Mr Bungle - Disco Volante, Mr Bungle Ruins - Hyderomastgroningem Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds Of Fire Zorn - Naked City, Bar Kokhba, Masada 1, Masada 7, Big Gundown Naked City - Radio, Grand Guignol Charlie Hunter Trio - Charlie Hunter Trio Secret Chiefs Trio - First Grand Constitution And Bylaws Cartoon - Ovine Bovine Faith No More - Angel Dust, King For A Day Primus - Frizzle Fry, Sailing The Seas Of Cheese Soundgarden - Superunknown Morricone - Fistful Of Film Music Steve Coleman - Def Trance Beat - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:00:14 +0200 From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Top disappointments I think only albums should qualify for "top disappointment" that you had high expectations of. I mean, I just *know* that the new Spice Girls album isn't going to be of much interest for me, so from that point of view it's not going to disappointment me. Maybe we should also have a category "albums that you expected nothing of but turned out really great in the end". Okay, my top disappointments would include: - - Every single Primus album since Frizzle Fry; - - Every single album by anyone in Mr. Bungle except maybe Mike Patton (I must confess I haven't heard the new Secret Chiefs 3 album yet). How come these guys have made one of the most brilliant albums ever, and their other projects are all lame? - - 95% of my collection of drum'n'bass. Listening to it now, just about everything sounds really bleak. In my opinion, when drum'n'bass falls from its throne, only people like Photek and Squarepusher are going to survive, mainly because they have already moved largely outside of the purist d&b arena. Frankco. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:24:47 -0800 From: "Patrick Stockton" Subject: Re: Trout Mask Replica >TROUT MASK REPLICA shows up on a lot of lists. I haven't heard it, but I >had the sampler ZAPPED as kid and it had one or two Beefheart on it. Now >I'm thinking this is a good time to finally buy it. > >Doug McKay >In Minnesota do so without hesitation. TMR is one of those rare gems of recorded music. especially when considering the relatively conservative nature of the music industry at the time it was recorded. without complete funding and resources from Frank Zappa, this album would not exist. Zappa basically gave Beefheart (Don Van Vliet) complete and total creative control and a studio and any musicians he needed. the result is a glance into the mind of a poet/visionary from the late sixties, a mind from the other side of the tracks. he did not fit in with popular culture, and he sure as hell was not a hippy. he, zappa and others were just wierd intellectual artists intent on destroying the banal, popular middle America. of course, Zappa and Beefheart were high school buddies but shortly adfter this project they had a bitter dissolution of their friendship. they got back together, and allegedly made up in '75 and did an album "Bongo Fury" and a tour. but it seems that this was only a favor to beefheart, to help him make some cash or something. i think i remember zappa saying that they were not really friends ever again but they did the album anyway to help beefhearts failing career. that is supposedly why the cover of "Bongo Fury" is a photo of Zappa and Beefheart sitting facing forward. Beefheart has his head down with a hat on, as if he is hiding his face in shame. Eight years before he trash talked Zappa in the media, in his music, in his poetry, and then comes crawling back. just a ramble...... anyway buy the album! patrick in portland - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:07:07 -0800 From: "Patrick Stockton" Subject: TOP 20 i hope im not too late on this one... sorry if this is already a tired thread. John Zorn - "Bar Kokhba" Juan Garcia Esquivel - "Other Worlds, Other Sounds" Frank Zappa - "One Size Fits All" Caveman Shoestore - "Flux" Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh Hopper) Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox" Edgar Varese - "Ameriques/Offrandes/Hyperprism/Octandre/Arcana" (rec. by Orchestre National de France and conducted by Kent Nagano Carla Bley - "Tropical Appetites" Bad Brains - "I Against I" Gary Burton - "A Genuine Tong Funeral" (composed by C. Bley) Pigpen - "V as in Victim" Boodlers - self-titled (trio of Sharp, Chalenor, Franzoni) Bill Frisell - "Have A Little Faith" Tipsy - "Trip Tease" Mark Ribot - "Shrek" Mark Ribot - "Shoe-String Symphonettes" Frank Zappa - "You Are What You Is" George Antheil - Ensemble Modern conducted by HK Gruber - "Plays the music of George Antheil" and..... #20 can be any Miles Davis album between "Miles Smiles" (1966) to "Filles de Kilimanjaro" (1968) with the lineup of Ron Carter, Tony Williams (RIP), Wayne Shorter, and Herbie Hancock. patrick in portland - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:14:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laura Subject: Re: the top 20, etc etc Just to drag this out a little more, how about a top 5 or some other arbitrary number list of how people got turned onto these albums? For example, by others, by reviews, by listening to previous examples, etc? Just a thought.. Laura - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Your data is gone All is lost Pull trigger? (yes/no) - - Winner of Salon Magazine's Windows error message Haiku contest - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:26:24 -0500 From: Bob Kowalski Subject: anyone listening? Hey all - W/ all the postings to this list (even in digest format I receive average 3-5 daily) do y'all have time to listen to the music chatted up? Just curious (perhaps someday when I've a PC at home I'll understand.) Currently enjoying FWVIII, Circle Maker & Michael Nyman's soundtrack to animated game / interactive movie (dunno) Enemy Zero. Bob - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:28:23 -0500 From: "Andy Marks" Subject: Re: Yoshihide Dates. > >Several days ago, Sachiko sent me the schedule of their U.S. and European > tour. > >The U.S. tour schedule is as follows; - -snip dates not near me > >5/13 Detroit,Mi / USA [ ] Filament Anyone know where this Detroit date is at? - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:39:12 +0200 From: Artur Nowak Subject: RE: Top 20 disappointments >> Incidentally, why all the griping over short disc times? Shouldn't the >> dollar value of a product have to do more with the intrinsic worth of >> the creation involved rather than peripheral matters like its >> duration? Wouldn't most folk here rather listen to 20-25 minutes of >> 'Plexure' or 'Cynical Hysterie Hour' than 75 minutes of (for lack of a >> better person to dump on) Celine Dion? Do you also feel cheated if a >> good novel is only 150 pages long instead of being padded to 600? >> Brian Olewnick [Artur Nowak] Your're right, there is no relation between money or CD lenght and quaity of music. But there is between different albums. If you have to choose your "Lonely Island Top 20" (carefully selected form your Top 200 list), do you prefer the 60+ minutes CDs or could you survive with 10 hours of bunch of short albums? OR: if you find 10 superb CDs in a store, and you have money only for 5, do you buy the shorter or the lornger ones? ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:43:21 +0200 From: Artur Nowak Subject: Top 3 (was: Top 20) I don't have privilege to answer the "Top 20" question with a list of 20 albums, because I don't have 1000 records. ;-) So, here is my "Top 3" list Category: ROCK/EXPERIMENTAL - Jimi Hendrix Experience "ARE YOU EXPERIENCED?" Category: JAZZ - John Coltrane "A LOVE SUPREME" Category: CLASSICAL - Witold Lutoslawski "PRELUDES & FUGUE FOR 13 SOLO STRINGS" + "CELLO CONCERTO" I know these records for years, and I'm sure of them: MASTERPIECES. This was easy. You guys have too many records! Do you have time to listen to your "Top 20" weekly / monthly / yearly? ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:39:58 +0200 From: Artur Nowak Subject: RE: Disappointments >> Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still just sounds [Artur Nowak] Is there anybody who likes this records? (I really would like to know). I can still remember the discussion about "fake Zorn", and this is the point: among these 200 records with Zorn, there are many NOBODY likes. Including mr Zorn himself (Zorn [gking@win.bright.net]) :-) ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:59:06 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Crimson & Astor (was Top 20) >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Smith writes: Steve> 1. King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic My top 1 desert Steve> island disc. One of my colleagues just acquired Night Watch, the new live release of the supposedly famous 1973 Concertgebouw recording. Man, this kicks ass! Some of the improv on here made it onto the Starless album, but it sounds so much better here in its raw, unadulterated state. I'm going to have to get a copy of this for myself, and since there's so much Crimson in our lists, I'll recommend it for all the Crimson fans out there. Steve> 19. Astor Piazzolla - Tango Zero Hour One of the greatest Steve> records ever made, period. I keep forgetting this one. I have it on vinyl, which means I don't get to listen to it as often as I'd like, but yeah. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:31:56 -0600 From: Rusty Crump Subject: RE: Disappointments >>> Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still just >sounds >[Artur Nowak] Is there anybody who likes this records? (I really would like >to know). >I can still remember the discussion about "fake Zorn", and this is the >point: among these 200 records with Zorn, there are many NOBODY likes. >Including mr Zorn himself (Zorn [gking@win.bright.net]) :-) > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Artur Nowak > www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm I, for one, love "Redbird." (And "Dark River.") I put it, "For Samuel Beckett," some Eno, and Yo La Tengo's "Fakebook" in the CD changer when I want to settle down for a long serious session of reading. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:27:36 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Parrot Fish Eye (was 20 essential records) >>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick writes: >> Mats Gustaffson Parrot Fish Eye (OKKA) brian> Could someone provide a brief review of this? I've brian> almost picked it up on several occasions. Eight duets with Michael Zerang on percussion, followed by 5 trios with Gene Coleman on bass clarinet and Jim O'Rourke on acoustic guitar (mostly) and a little accordion and percussion, everything recorded during a week-long stay by Gustafsson in Chicago in May 1994. Nice set of liner notes by John Corbett. 56 minutes total. Some of the pieces are quite short (five of them under 3 minutes), and especially in the trios, are sometimes pretty sparse. I was kind of disappointed with the trios because the acoustic guitar doesn't really work for me here, especially in the relatively few moments when MG and Coleman are really blowing and the guitar, to me, just sounds lame strumming along. OTOH, you really get to hear MG's sax playing very well, it's a very clear recording, and I imagine this is an excellent document of what he sounds like live. Unlike other recordings I've got with MG, this one is all acoustic. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:36:37 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: TOP 20 On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: > and..... #20 can be any Miles Davis album between "Miles Smiles" (1966) to > "Filles de Kilimanjaro" (1968) with the lineup of Ron Carter, Tony > Williams (RIP), Wayne Shorter, and Herbie Hancock. Seeing as box sets are getting listed, you could probably get away with listing the new boxed set that contains *all* of those (and which has been leering enticingly at my wallet for the past week...) - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:45:21 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: RE: Disappointments On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Artur Nowak wrote: > >> Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still just > sounds > [Artur Nowak] Is there anybody who likes this records? (I really would like > to know). "Redbird" is one of my favorite Zorns. The title track is pretty much an homage to Morton Feldman's work for larger ensembles. Listen to his "For Samuel Beckett" or the "... and Orchestra" pieces, and Redbird may come into focus for you. - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:30:47 -0800 From: "Keith McMullen" Subject: Two Comments (1) A coupla folks have asked the question my wife always asks: What's the point? How often do you listen to most of those? There isn't enought time. I file that question under the general category titled: Why live, we're just gonna die? And since I plan to live at least another 50 years. In 20,000 days I can listen to a hell of a lot of music. And, you know, different states of being require different musicks. It is reprehensible to get into a space which screams for a partcular tune and to not have it handy. It's a quality of life thing. (2) I'm twitching to start the next thread: Top 20 most memorable live concert experiences. I suppose we should wait till we've finished this one, eh?....but...but....Captain Beefheart at the Whisky (2X), Golden Bear, and Country Club (Reseda) on the Shiny Beast tour...oops...I couldn't help myself.........I'll stop....I'll stop....but then there's Sun Ra at Myron's Ballroom in LA with Astronauts suspended by cables from the ceiling gliding across the room...I'm sorry....I'm trying to stop.........Archie Shepp at Kimball's in SF doing everything from Ascension style chaos to crooning 'Girl From Ipanema....please forgive me....I'm stopping.... - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:52:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Butch Morris in today's NYTimes http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/morris-conductor-profile.html - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:57:16 -0400 From: "Francisca" Subject: RE: Top 20 Egos on Parade Jon, Sorry to interrupt, but not all of us on this list have a dick. Grow up. -- Francisca - ---------- > De: Jon Mooneyham > A: zorn-list@xmission.com > Asunto: Top 20 Egos on Parade > Fecha: Friday, April 03, 1998 12:44 AM > > Hey, I'm as guilty as the next subscriber... BUT: > With over a hundred messages from this list in the last 24 hours, I gotta > say, there's nothin' like a Biggest/Coolest Dick contest (like this) to get > everybody's fingers flyin' over the keyboard... > > ok, back to lurker mode. > > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:04:22 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Top 20 at the moment... On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 Jon Mooneyham wrote: > > & a current fave - > Cujo-Adventures in Foam Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but... Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:58:28 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Concerts >>>>> "Keith" == Keith McMullen writes: Keith> (2) I'm twitching to start the next thread: Top 20 most Keith> memorable live concert experiences. I suppose we should Keith> wait till we've finished this one, Keith> eh?....but...but....Captain Beefheart at the Whisky (2X), Keith> Golden Bear, and Country Club (Reseda) on the Shiny Beast Keith> tour...oops...I couldn't help myself.........I'll Keith> stop....I'll stop....but then there's Sun Ra at Myron's Keith> Ballroom in LA with Astronauts suspended by cables from the Keith> ceiling gliding across the room...I'm sorry....I'm trying Keith> to stop.........Archie Shepp at Kimball's in SF doing Keith> everything from Ascension style chaos to crooning 'Girl Keith> From Ipanema....please forgive me....I'm stopping.... Nooo, nooo, I'm getting sucked in... I've spent more time on this list this week than doing anything resembling real work. Zorn and Chadbourne on the Free Improvised Country & Western BeBop tour, playing the craziest possible music, grabbing for different instruments two and three at a time, one of the group (Kramer?) with half a dozen cheap cassette recorders in front of him, into which he popped tapes in and out very rapidly. All this for me and the bartenders, because no one else showed up. Duke Ellington. The last encore in which he introduced 'our young piano player' before playing the most heart-rending solo. Johnny Clegg and Savuka performing amazing acrobatics and tribal dances. Sorry I don't have 20. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #297 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.