From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #344 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, April 27 1998 Volume 02 : Number 344 In this issue: - Re: Weird Little Boy Re: Weird Little Boy Re: Weird Little Boy Electronic horns Re: Re[3]:Cobra Re[4]:Cobra Re: Weird Little Boy BIG The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz Re: The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz Locus Solus Re: WAYNE HORVITZ Re: Locus Solus Re: Weird Little Boy Re: Re[3]:Cobra Re: Re[3]:Cobra [none] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:27:10 -0400 (EDT) From: William York Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy > > Stuff on the Circle Maker (just to take an example) don't really take that > much effort either, they just come out sounding nicer, that's all. > > I kind of feel that way too. I guess it comes down to how much of something you want to hear, or from Zorn's perspective it is maybe more a matter of documenting what he is doing. Certainly other people take this approach- I just wonder how for example anyone could ever keep up with all of the stuff Anthony Braxton puts out, and if putting so much stuff out has the effect of diluting the quality of things. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:20:36 EDT From: JonAbbey2 Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy In a message dated 4/26/98 7:30:57 PM, wyork@email.unc.edu wrote: <> I think it depends on the artist. Evan Parker puts out as many records as Braxton or Zorn and manages to maintain a remarkably high level of quality and originality. I think part of it is self-discipline; an artist having the self- awareness to realize which of his project ideas are the most viable. The new Parker record on Leo, Live at Les Instants Chavires, is Parker's most successful foray into electronics yet. Other recent Parker faves include Most Materiall (Matchless), 2 CDs of duos with Eddie Prevost, and Natives And Aliens (Leo), with Barry Guy, Paul Lytton, and Marilyn Crispell. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:54:21 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Julian wrote: > Stuff on the Circle Maker (just to take an example) don't really take that > much effort either, they just come out sounding nicer, that's all. Well, one obvious question: How do you know they "don't really take that much effort"? I take it you're not merely referring to the sweat factor, a quaint notion that Braxton, for many years now, has been attempting to put to rest (though, I'd imagine several of the pieces on 'Circle Maker' drew forth a few beads!), Are you implying that simply because many of the songs therein are beautiful in a traditional manner, that they must have been easy to compose? Or that because JZ produces these melodies in such profusion that they must pose no more difficulty to him than burping? I'm no musician, but as a painter, I'll tell you that slapping something with 'angst' on a canvas is a walk in the park compared to creating something that looks as if it were effortless. So, until every other downtown wannabe starts producing stuff the caliber of the Masada songbook, I'm quite willing to give old Zorno the benefit of the doubt. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:31:58 EDT From: HSpaceboy Subject: Electronic horns I had the same Barcus Berry transducer pick up that Miles used installed on my trombone (it involved drilling into the mouthpiece). The damn thing only picked up the slide gliding from position to position and then it died. Anyway, if anyone knows of a less painful way to use a pick up with brass I'd appreciate your suggestions. - -Mark - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:30:24 +1000 From: "Julian Curwin" Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra > On the younger generation side, "free improv" means what the two words > imply (as Peter does): do what you want and no rules at all. The definition that I was following when I was talking about my experiences with "free improv" was a slight variation on what you seem to imply here. I wouldn't say there are no rules. You obviously have to make an effort to "fit in" or complement the others' playing. And the people I was doing the improv with mostly had the musical ability to do this, and not just "do what you want". I mean, I guess you have to have a strong sense of rhythm, and usually perfect or relative pitch can help - most of us were jazz musicians so we had these things covered pretty well. So, not wanting to sound pretentious or anything, I guess it sounded pretty good. I would imagine something with absolutely no rules could sound a bit off. Do you mean the players could totally ignore the other players if they wanted to? - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:31:42 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[4]:Cobra << On the younger generation side, "free improv" means what the two words imply (as Peter does): do what you want and no rules at all. >> Part of that is my lack of knowledge of the history, which is a shame. I tend to use free improv and free jazz interchangably. << There is a popular belief (...) that people not knowing each others can meet for one evening, and, without rehearsing at all and no predefined rules, can produce "magic moments with telepathic interaction". I also believed that for a long time, until I realized that the best "free improv" was done by artists that really knew each others very well and improvised in a fairly well-defined form (because you can immediately recognize it). For example, the trio Parker/Guy/Lytton is usually considered as one of the best free improv group. Needless to say that what this group does does not match at all the second definition of "free improv". >> See, I think that these magic moments can happen, but it's certainly not a given. In fact, I'd say it's usually the other way, which is why I railed against free improv for so long. The best free improv, as I said, comes with a certain connectedness. The best way to get that is to practice. I used to be in a band where we'd break into free moments and they only got better and better as time went on because we'd practice playing free together. It's a good thing. << > exactly that, improv and free. I admit it can sound better or worse to the > audience if you approach it a different way, but usually from what I've > experienced, the group has just as much fun no matter what happens ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And this is the point, right? That the band has fun... No matter what the audience can think? >> Well, that is being a little cynical. Who says you need an audience at all? Some of the best jamming moments I've ever had has been when myself and ten of my friends gather in a room and "improv". Usually it's just noise, but sometimes it's amazing, and the point is primarily that we have fun. Would I want to inflict that on anyone? No. Also, I'm not propping fun over musical experience, but if you're not having a good time, or enjoying what you're doing, chances are the music is going to suffer. I dunno. I agree though that practice is necessary for serious free improv and that the magical moments of a momentary midnight meeting are mostly myth. (How's that for alliteration?) === << So, not wanting to sound pretentious or anything, I guess it sounded pretty good. I would imagine something with absolutely no rules could sound a bit off. Do you mean the players could totally ignore the other players if they wanted to? >> We always said that's a viable option just like playing nothing is a viable option, as long as you're making a decision to do that and are not doing it out of laziness. Doing it because you're not paying attention naturally misses the point of what we were trying to do. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:09:18 +1000 From: "Julian Curwin" Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Firstly, the point I was trying to make is this: The fact that Zorn has a book of hundreds of Masada tunes tells me that he can kind of produce a lot of them like burping. I would say that a lot of what "makes" a Masada tune is the improvisation. Obviously some of the more complex ones (like say Tahah, with it's insane time sig changes) might have taken more effort to work out. So, I guess what I'm saying is that Zorn, or any accomplished musician, can possibly make music that sounds pretty basic or even "half-hearted" (I know these two have totally different connotations) but there can still be something, some beauty there. I remember just a few months ago we had a discussion about Frisell's latest release, some saying it was less adventurous than usual, but others saying it is good music, and that's all that counts. So I was applying this idea to Zorn's "noise"-ier side like Weird Little Boy. The whole album could have been recorded live in an hour or something, in other words they might have just rattled it off without the slightest bit of effort, but it could still sound miraculous to some fans. So really I was saying that overall the sound should be judged and not the effort or complexity involved. Interesting this should come up because a lecturer at my university was trying to come up with a way to "grade" jazz solos. A big debate arose, someone saying there has to be dynamic contrast, rhythmic variety, use of certain scales and all this crap, and then us jazz musicians spoke up, saying it should just "sound good". > Stuff on the Circle Maker (just to take an example) don't really take that > > much effort either, they just come out sounding nicer, that's all. > > Well, one obvious question: How do you know they "don't really take that > much effort"? I take it you're not merely referring to the sweat factor, > a quaint notion that Braxton, for many years now, has been attempting to > put to rest (though, I'd imagine several of the pieces on 'Circle Maker' > drew forth a few beads!), > > Are you implying that simply because many of the songs therein are > beautiful in a traditional manner, that they must have been easy to > compose? Or that because JZ produces these melodies in such profusion > that they must pose no more difficulty to him than burping? I'm no > musician, but as a painter, I'll tell you that slapping something with > 'angst' on a canvas is a walk in the park compared to creating something > that looks as if it were effortless. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:32:16 PDT From: "Silent Watcher" Subject: BIG Music Boulevard has a new Blind Idiot God album entitled "Rock" scheduled for release on May 19 on Avant. Does anyone have any info on this? SW For Sale/Want list and Laswell Discography at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 13:20:28 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz Noticed JZ referencing this piece in an interview culled, apparently, from the CD issue of LOCUS SOLUS. Sounds like it might have been one of his pieces from around the time of the Monk and Weill tributes, when he first had access to a serious recording studio. Anyone know if it has ever seen a smidgen of the light of day? Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:44:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Joshua A Miller Subject: Re: The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz yes, it's on locus solus. On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > Noticed JZ referencing this piece in an interview culled, apparently, > from the CD issue of LOCUS SOLUS. Sounds like it might have been one > of his pieces from around the time of the Monk and Weill tributes, > when he first had access to a serious recording studio. > > Anyone know if it has ever seen a smidgen of the light of day? > > Brian Olewnick > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:37:31 -0400 (EDT) From: jdschone@sas.upenn.edu (John D Schonewolf) Subject: Locus Solus Dear Listservers, I just purchased Locus Solus yesterday, and must say that it is amazing. So, I was wondering what other albums in the Zorn discography I could turn to in this vein? Zorn mentioned this project as being a precursor to Painkiller and a few other projects. How similar are Painkiller and Locus Solus (obviously I have never heard any Painkiller)? For Brian- the song The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz is track 35 on Locus Solus. Thanks for any help and direction. Jack Schonewolf - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:50:08 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: WAYNE HORVITZ On Fri, 24 Apr 98 08:21:20 -0300 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > Hello "Zornies", > > Fortunately Wayne Horvitz continues to put out fine albums here and > there but unfortunately those albums are just below the surface of > mainstream -public attention. > I think Horvitz is one of the best composers and musicians of the decade > so I ask myself if any of you would like to comment: Horvitz' problem is that he is neither commercial or totally obscure. It is unlikely that you will scare your friends with any of his records; and I would not recommend them either as background music when you have a date. Not falling in either one of these categories dooms you to almost total obscurity (not to mention that he likes to write songs -- a sin for which there is little indulgence). But I am sure that if he was to die tomorrow, there would be plenty of e-mail asking for advices about what to get... > 1)Is there any live recording of Wayne Horvitz's The President? Not to my knowledge. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:44:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Locus Solus On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, John D Schonewolf wrote: > I just purchased Locus Solus yesterday, and must say that it is amazing. > So, I was wondering what other albums in the Zorn discography I could > turn to in this vein? Not much, sadly. _Locus Solus_ is probably the earliest recorded example of Zorn's short sharp shock approach to improv, and of his use of rock as a big influence. But Naked City and Painkiller primarily reference metal, and don't play off popular song forms to the same extent. Slan might be the closest thing I've heard in Zorn's output, but there are only a few compilation tracks out there. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:47:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, JonAbbey2 wrote: > I think it depends on the artist. Evan Parker puts out as many records as > Braxton or Zorn and manages to maintain a remarkably high level of quality and > originality. My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too. The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind. I couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:56:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > There is a popular belief (...) that people not knowing each others can meet > for one evening, and, without rehearsing at all and no predefined rules, can > produce "magic moments with telepathic interaction". I also believed that > for a long time, until I realized that the best "free improv" was done by > artists that really knew each others very well and improvised in a fairly > well-defined form (because you can immediately recognize it). This seems overstated, and I've got the Company albums to prove it. Obviously, "first encounters" run a risk of just making a mess, but I'm not convinced that this is any more a problem then the risk involved in the latter case of falling into cliches. (Another example of great "first encounters" just occurred to me: the wonderful series of Cecil Taylor albums on FMP recently discussed on this list.) Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:00:43 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > > On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > > There is a popular belief (...) that people not knowing each others can meet > > for one evening, and, without rehearsing at all and no predefined rules, can > > produce "magic moments with telepathic interaction". I also believed that > > for a long time, until I realized that the best "free improv" was done by > > artists that really knew each others very well and improvised in a fairly > > well-defined form (because you can immediately recognize it). > > This seems overstated, and I've got the Company albums to prove it. > Obviously, "first encounters" run a risk of just making a mess, but I'm > not convinced that this is any more a problem then the risk involved in > the latter case of falling into cliches. (Another example of great > "first encounters" just occurred to me: the wonderful series of Cecil > Taylor albums on FMP recently discussed on this list.) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you believe that you have to play with Taylor on the same stage to know how to play with him :-). My statement above does not apply with masters of improvisation that are so well documented on records that playing with them for the first time could hardly be called a... blind date. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:00:03 -0700 (PDT) From: chad edwards Subject: [none] 1. Why would anyone choose to have sex with a corpse? Well, I don't know about you but I've always had a fear of rejection. From the very first time I sunk into naked, dead flesh, I knew I would always find a taker if I stayed with this crowd. Suddenly I could have any woman I wanted, regardless of age, size, or social status. The only thing was she had to be dead. A small price to pay for so much top-notch tail! 2. Does the stage of decay affect the sensation? This is truly a difficult question. A fresh dead body is just like having sex with a real live girl (only colder) but for a couple of weeks before the real decay begins, you're going to have your work cut out for you. Rest assured though, that the benefits far outweigh the extra work it takes to get in there! Then, however, as heavy decay progresses, it becomes easier and easier to get in -- Although at this stage, I must advise that it doesn't feel very good at all and you run the risk of getting sick from corpse germs. 3. Isn't necrophilia illegal? Yes, the world over. However, there are up sides: For instance, a necrophilia charge cancels out a statutory rape charge! Try THAT with a still-alive girl! 4. Isn't necrophilia immoral? It depends on your religion. Right now the Bolshnavanian Orthodox faith is the only religion that not only approves of, but encourages necrophilia as well as countless other deviant sexual practices. 5. How can I find out if necrophilia is for me? If you're a normal male with healthy urges, necrophilia is not for you. If you are an angry loner, or a widower, or a liberal democrat, or just completely off your nut... Give it a try! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #344 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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