From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #458 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, September 14 1998 Volume 02 : Number 458 In this issue: - Mingus and Steve Lacy Steve Lacy bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help Suggestions...turntable. Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help Roadrunner in Realaudio Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help reaction for fred frith Singe/M.Gibbs/G.Coleman/Gersh/Verb Re: reaction for fred frith Re: reaction for fred frith THANKS for the suggestions: tony conrad redux: but not an argument Re: tony conrad redux: but not an argument Journal Violone Re: Journal Violone ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:24:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: Mingus and Steve Lacy The exchange of messages about Mingus was very good. Thanks for everybody who gave an opinion. Most of them worth following and I will be doing just that in my still beginning attempt to understand the music of CMingus. Now: would it be possible to get similar approaches to the music of Steve Lacy? I've just received a boot recording of one of his trio's shows this year here in the US and I think it is great: where, how, why -- start to listen to SLacy seriously? Also heard that Tzadik just released a Lacy solo CD: is it any good? Finally: most of Lacy's CD's seem to be out of print or are so expensive that they are not reachable: any suggestions about tapes or used CDs? Josef - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:43:01 -0700 From: "schwitterZ" Subject: Steve Lacy Lacy is so thoroughly documented, you're going to get an onslaught. THE WAY gets the most listens around here. THE GLEAM is second. Don't miss either. s~Z - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:58:57 EDT From: DEANER76@aol.com Subject: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help i need some help, i heard bar kokhba(circle maker) playing october 1st-3rd at tonic. can someone please confirm this and give me information on how to get tickets from tonic ASAP. is tonic all ages? thank you very much. alexz - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:06:05 -0400 From: "Jason J. Tar" Subject: Suggestions...turntable. >Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:54:08 -0500 >From: jtalbot@massart.edu >Subject: some suggestions please.... >i'm also interested in hearing some turntable/djtype stuff. not club music. >musicians who push the boundaries of this instrument. any suggestions? thanks Definately check out Otomo Yoshihide/Ground Zero if you haven't. Particularly his _Les Sculptuers Des Vinyl_, in which Otomo leads a group of 4 or 5 DJs. Great cut up compositions. Also Tsunoda Tsuguto (who is featured on _Les Sculptuers..._) has a few tapes out that are rather impressive on his own label, Muni Muni. Finally I might mention DJ Vadim on the Ninja Tune and Jazz Fudge labels. Particularly his NT album _USSR Repetoire_. Not as cut up as the previous two, but still very interesting. Also mix tapes by the Invisible Skratch Piklz are usually a safe bet... (Especially Q-Berts' _Demolition Pumpkin Musik_ tape.) - --- Peace Hugs and Unity Jason J. Tar W. W. J. D? (What would Jason Do?) http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason ICQ@13792120 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:42:37 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help DEANER76@aol.com wrote: > i need some help, i heard bar kokhba(circle maker) playing october 1st-3rd at > tonic. can someone please confirm this and give me information on how to get > tickets from tonic ASAP. is tonic all ages? thank you very much. "My sources say it is so," according to the Magic 8 Ball that is http://www.tonic107.comYou can only get tickets for Tonic by showing up the night of the show. Be there early if you want a seat... they are scarce when the crowd is big. Tonic is all ages, serves no alcohol as yet, and makes a mean turkey, brie and arugula with honey-mustard on black bread with a large iced lemon berry mint tea to wash it down (and those are but a few of the options). BTW the Masada quartet is celebrating the release of Masada 10 with shows on Sept. 24-26 at Tonic as well. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:05:40 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help Steve Smith wrote: > Tonic is all ages, serves no alcohol as yet, and makes a mean turkey, > brie and arugula with honey-mustard on black bread with a large iced lemon berry > mint tea to wash it down (and those are but a few of the options). Oh wow... I may have to hit NYC just for that sandwich! - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:46:14 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help Joseph Zitt wrote: > Steve Smith wrote: > > > Tonic is all ages, serves no alcohol as yet, and makes a mean turkey, > > brie and arugula with honey-mustard on black bread with a large iced lemon berry > > mint tea to wash it down (and those are but a few of the options). > > Oh wow... I may have to hit NYC just for that sandwich! Yeah, and I didn't even mention the bad-ass thick-cut deli-style potato chips and the cute little bunch of green grapes that come along with that particular sandwich. And don't get me started on the turkey, avocado and roasted red pepper... And David Newgarden allowed me a little taste of his hazelnut gelato the other night and I *swear* my knees went weak... And did I mention that Tonic is run by the same folks who control the extraordinary titular brew at alt.coffee? Or that the lemonade is *blue* because it's sweetened not with sugar but with blue Curacao (non-alcoholic version, of course...). And if you visit Tonic during the day, you can even get your hair styled! What a concept... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:54:26 -0400 From: Jack Blanton Subject: Roadrunner in Realaudio For anyone interested: Zorn's Roadrunner piece is part of the playlist on Mappings with Herb Levy on antenna "radio" this week. Go to http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/pn.htm It is the second from last track (#8). Enjoy. Jack Blanton jblanton@kent.edu Jack Blanton jblanton@kent.edu - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:50:13 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help > http://www.tonic107.comYou Wow, I don't get this computer stuff sometimes. I don't know why Netscape decided to get jiggy wit' it, but here's an accurate link to Tonic's site (for those who hadn't figured out my botch already)... http://www.tonic107.com Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com ... PAYING my way in just like anybody else ... - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:36:15 +0200 From: Stefan Verstraeten Subject: reaction for fred frith > >Fred Frith wrote > >good day, > >I'm interested in how intolerant or inflexible in their tastes some > >people seem to be. I think The Previous Evening is very beautiful - > >but there seems to be an idea out there that only one kind of music is > >allowed, and this ain't it! I have no problem with anyone liking some > >things more than others, we're all like that, but I find the air of > >political correctness that goes with imposing your own opinion a bit > >odd.... I hope those who find this kind of music arty-farty have the > >courage to listen to it more than once, and preferably without distrac= tion First of all, thank you mr. fred frith for participating in the discussion, but something bothers me quite a bit. Yes, I am the person who found the previous evening a bit 'arty farty' (maybe these words were a little bit too harsh, sorry for that). But, since this is a discussion list, where all people share their comments on cd's, I thought, why can't I express my opinion as well. Accusing me (indirectly) of 'political incorrectness' really hits me (and other people on the zornlist or frithlist who give their opinion on cd's). Because Mr. Frith, when i shared my opinion on 'the previous evening' it was IN NO WAY to distract people from buying this cd. Plus, Mr. Frith, -as you seem to follow the discussions on the discussion list- you know that it was I (the so called political correct guy) who defened twice the 'meridiem' cd. Quite some people on the zornlist and on the frithlist didn't like the album (that's an opinion), but hey, that didn't stop me from saying to other people on the discussion lists that they should listen N=FBs (nusline@aol.com) first (the record, angels, is out on sub rosa, http://www.subrosa.net) first, and then listen to meridiem, and see what a beautiful album meridiem was and still is.... So, that makes me one time a political correct guy, and the other (which you don't mention) i was one of the main defenders of the meridiem album. > >God knows what you'll make of Pacifica! Better not buy > >it I guess, wouldn't want to rip you off. Well, as you know, Mr. Frith, i launched indeed the question what people found of this album. As you can see on the frith list. Some people disliked it, other people wrote to me saying that this was an album to buy..... WHICH I DID, mr. fred frith. So you see, mr. frith, that the opinions (NOT political correct statements) that were expressed by some people didn't distract me from bying 'pacifica' (a great album by the way, quite a lot more than what people called 'wallpaper ambient', fans said this, not political correct persons) So let's see,=20 (1)I shared an opnion on 'the previous evening', saying that the album sounded a bit 'arty farty' to me (i allready said sorry for the expression) BUT NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS A RIP OFF (that's a difference to me), nor was it in my way to distract people from buying it, nor was I IMPOSING MY OPNINION. (2)I defended the 'meridiem' album (3)Even with some negative opnions on the frith list, I still bought the pacifica album (THAT PROVES THAT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAID OF THIS ALBUM DID NOT CHANGED MY WILL) Sorry Mr. Frith, but nobody on this lists does something like 'political correct statements' (we have a listowner). We are just a group of people who like the same music, who help each other out on finding albums, labels,... And yes, we comment the albums a great musicians like you mister fred frith. And when somenone wants to say something about an album (remember the discussion on 'weird little boy'), he or she doens't want to distract people or giving political correct statements or imposing their will on other people. No way, he or she just wants to share an opnion. Accusing me and other people of 'policital correctness' really hurts me mr. fred frith. Thats all I wanted to say.... to a very great musician. Best wishes, stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 03:54:12 -0400 From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Subject: Singe/M.Gibbs/G.Coleman/Gersh/Verb DJ Singe & Geoff Gersh with special guests: Melvin Gibbs-bass<>Grisha Coleman-vox<>MC Verb turntables+guitar+flash+ Thursday Sept. 17 11pm Alterknit Theatre @ the Knitting Factory 74 Leonard St. 219-3006 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:58:54 -0500 From: punkjazz@snet.net Subject: Re: reaction for fred frith A few observations on Stefans reply to fred; Its possible that stefan has taken offense where none was intended. Where fred says "god knows what they'd make of Pacifica", I think he has his tongue planted firmly in his cheek. The term political correctness, though used quite often, has more than one meaning. It started out as a self-effacing in-joke among liberals/progressives in the US, mainly in response to the trend of making the bureaucracy gender and race neutral, i.e repairperson vs repairman, african/american vs black etc. Conservatives, who seem(at least in the US) to be unable to recognize satire or self-criticism for what it is, seized upon the term as part of an effort to demonize anything they perceive as left of center. Hence, it has become a catch-all phrase for any authoritarian dogma that tells people how to think/act/behave. In the context of Freds post, he seems (to me anyway) to merely be expressing his disappointment that a lot of the people who liked his more rock oriented works(Art Bears,Massacre, Keep The Dog, the Ralph releases) are not keen on, and in some cases, highly dismissive, of his more recent directions. Whether this is a case of an artist outgrowing his fan base, or just a case of sour grapes, is open to interpretation, but something tells me, Fred's comments are more a result of talking to his fans on a regular basis, than a personal dig at Stefan. just my 2c RW - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:29:12 +0200 From: Stefan Verstraeten Subject: Re: reaction for fred frith punkjazz@snet.net wrote: > A few observations on Stefans reply to fred; > but something tells me, Fred's comments are more a result of talking >to his fans on a regular basis, than a personal dig at Stefan. > just my 2c > RW Yes indeed, but that leaves one question open: When someone gives an opinion on a record (and we all remember the discussions on 'weird little boy' and 'nanni nanni' by John Zorn), does this person actually wants to distract people from buying this record (as mr. fred frith said) or does this person just wants to share his or her personal point of vieuw. Personally, I never want to lay my will upon people when I give my opinion on a record (after all, who cares about my opinion and what is it worth.... damned, I ain't no dictator, I'm just a music lover), I just want to share my feelings towards a specific record.... isn't this what the discussion list was created for??? But hey, this is the last thing I say about this (public) discussion between Fred Frith and me. He gave his point of the discussion, I gave mine. He's a very great musician, I'll just shut up. Stefan - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:43:26 EDT From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: THANKS for the suggestions: thanks to those who emailed and posted mingus suggestions. one more question: i saw an album on vinyl which featured mingus and cecil taylor (i think as a duo.) has anybody heard this album? thanks again jt - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:18:22 PDT From: "Scott Handley" Subject: tony conrad redux: but not an argument I really should go back to the archives, but since it's been about a month since the TC thread, I'd like to ask for forgiveness and grace, and a handful of private e.mails, so as not to disrupt the list. Could I get a few opinions re: Conrad's EARLY MINIMALISM vol. 1, or--for that matter--any of his work? I finally made it over to the Table of the Elements Tony Conrad site, and the box set LOOKS great. But what does it sound "like"? Please understand, I don't know anyone who's into this stuff. I suppose ya'll could post, if it'd be helpful to anyone else. Thanks in advance, happy listening to all. - ---scot NP: Mauricio Kagel's String quartet #2. Weird, intersticial stuff. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:40:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: tony conrad redux: but not an argument On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Scott Handley wrote: > Could I get a few opinions re: Conrad's EARLY MINIMALISM vol. 1, or--for > that matter--any of his work? I finally made it over to the Table of > the Elements Tony Conrad site, and the box set LOOKS great. But what > does it sound "like"? Please understand, I don't know anyone who's into > this stuff. I suppose ya'll could post, if it'd be helpful to anyone > else. The boxed set does look great, with sharp packaging, an intriguing large booklet, and good CD-ROM material on one disc. His other CD, "Slapping Pythagoras", looks intriguing at first glance, but the text is almost unreadable. As for the music, well... it's less noisy than Metal Machine Music, more varied that 60-cycle hum, and more exciting than an MRI scan. It's a good representation of what he does live, except it's easier to escape a CD. - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:24:02 -0400 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Journal Violone I found a copy of Barre Phillips's first solo recording 'Journal Violone' for sale today and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this. Every reference I've read or heard to this record has called it "very early solo recordings" or something implying that it isn't very mature. I'm wondering if this is true or not and whether this record is worth buying. Any thoughts? Also, did the Jazz Composer's Orchestra double-LP (w/Pharoah, Rudd, Cecil, etc.) ever get reissued onto CD? I found a copy of that too. -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:55:20 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Journal Violone Tom Pratt wrote: > > I found a copy of Barre Phillips's first solo recording 'Journal > Violone' for sale today and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on > this. Every reference I've read or heard to this record has called it > "very early solo recordings" or something implying that it isn't very > mature. I'm wondering if this is true or not and whether this record is > worth buying. Any thoughts? I've never gotten to hear this, though a bass-player friend thinks it's the finest bass-oriented thing ever put to wax. > > Also, did the Jazz Composer's Orchestra double-LP (w/Pharoah, Rudd, > Cecil, etc.) ever get reissued onto CD? I found a copy of that too. > Yes, JCOA released it four or five years back, though I get the impression that it's no longer in print. It was on one CD with, for reasons I don't understand, tracks 3 & 4 flip-flopped, thus giving you the Sanders onslaught back to back with the Taylor maelstrom. One of THE greatest records ever made, IM-increasingly not so-HO. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #458 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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