From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #469 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, September 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 469 In this issue: - Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... RE:buckethead / praxis info wanted Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... Pierre Schaeffer box Re: Masada Box Re: NYC gigs inquiry (requested favor) Re: Masada Box Cadence redux Collectors vs. appreciates: qu'est-ce le difference? don't read my last post! Re: Masada Box jazz concert david s. ware recommendations? Re: david s. ware recommendations? Re: Masada Box Re: Bacharach Re: masada 10; etc. Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... Re: david s. ware recommendations? Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:49:04 -0700 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... At 09:41 AM 9/21/98 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: >*** - THE BEST OF THE GOLDEN PALOMINOS (1983-1989): Golden Palominos > > 1997 (1998?) - Music Club (???), MCCD 316 (CD) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- > >Does anybody has an idea when it came out? Also, what is the country? > There is so much re-licensing of the early (pre-Restless) Golden Palominos material that it is impossible to keep track. I asked Anton about all of these re-releases and he said he hadn't seen many of them. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:58:55 +0200 From: Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl Subject: RE:buckethead / praxis info wanted Praxis "Live at Warsaw Summer Jazz Days" is easy to buy in Poland. All who are interested in trading e-mail me privately. Marcin - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:02:19 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:49:04 -0700 Jeff Spirer wrote: > > There is so much re-licensing of the early (pre-Restless) Golden Palominos > material that it is impossible to keep track. I asked Anton about all of > these re-releases and he said he hadn't seen many of them. The compilation claims: Licenced from Charly Does Anton get as much money from that as Fred Frith with KILLING TIME :-). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:03:32 -0400 From: Lang Thompson Subject: Pierre Schaeffer box Does anybody know where I might be able to get this? All the usual outlets long ago sold theirs and tell me that it's out-of-print though there may be a future release on single CDs. Best, LT - ------------------------------------------------------ Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n' Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:01:04 -0400 From: acapps@usit.net (ashley capps) Subject: Re: Masada Box >>Now that Masada 10 is out when can we expect the Box Sets on Tzadik to >come >>out? > >Doubtless some among us have the scoop, but what Bruce Gallanter told me >once (in a qualified, speculative way, mind you---he wasn't implying he >KNEW anything) that it'd be a year from the time 10 hit the shelves. >I'm really happy now that all I got was ALEPH. In fact, I'm rolling in >the aisles. I'm a bit curious about this and similar reactions/concerns about the upcoming Masada box set - especially the "I'm glad I didn't buy them" line. Personally, I'm glad I've bought them when they came out because I've been enjoying the hell out of 'em for the past few years. Am I imagining it, or are some of you more interested in "collecting" rather than actually listening to and enjoying the music? Just curious. Ashley - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:55:34 -0700 From: rizzi@grin.net Subject: Re: NYC gigs inquiry (requested favor) Steve Smith wrote: > > Thu, Sep 24 John Zorn's Masada ($10) Yesterdays S.F. Chronicle's ad for the S.F. Jazz Festival had a listing for Nov. 8th - John Zorn's Masada rizzi - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:42:27 -0500 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Masada Box I have 7, 8, & 9 and my roomate has 1, 2, 3, 5, & 6. Once I heard that the boxed sets were coming out (of course containing extra tracks) I didn't want to buy them because I knew I would want to buy the boxed set. Now, what gets me is the marketing involved. If they (Tzadik) know they're going to release a set and they know exactly what will be on it, what's the hold up? Go ahead and release it. It seems like they're waiting for people to buy up 10 before they do it. Now maybe it's a annoying contractual thing with DIW but it still sucks for us. I would really like to hear Masada 10 but why buy it when I know I am planning on getting the box later? That's $20 extra spent. I don't want to but I feel like I'm being jerked around a little bit. I am really interested in the live set that is supposed to be released as well. They always get us with the extra tracks don't they? Dan >I'm a bit curious about this and similar reactions/concerns about the >upcoming Masada box set - especially the "I'm glad I didn't buy them" line. >Personally, I'm glad I've bought them when they came out because I've been >enjoying the hell out of 'em for the past few years. Am I imagining it, or >are some of you more interested in "collecting" rather than actually >listening to and enjoying the music? Just curious. > >Ashley - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:48:30 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Caulfield Bivins Subject: Cadence redux Hi folks, Sorry if this is a wee bit tardy, but I get these things in digest form. Anyway, I'd just like to chip in my 2 cents on Cadence, the bulk of which is essentially a seconding of Eric's good post. I happen to think that Walt Horn (the author of the review in question) is one of the better reviewers on the staff, thoroughly grounded in music theory and history in a way that enhances rather than detracts from his reviews. Of course, we may not agree with the conclusions he reaches with these tools at his disposal (for what it's worth, I think he ungenerously trashed the Joe Morris/Matt Shipp disc, but I essentially agree with him about the merits of Masada 9 - -- IMHO one of the weaker discs of the series, and the point about creeping exoticism shouldn't be dismissed either). I also find it odd to suggest that the magazine has an aesthetic orthodoxy at work. Having been the recipient of far too many hard-bop discs to review in these recent months, I can tell you that I don't subscribe to this notion (which isn't to say that I haven't liked some of these discs). And just check out the year's best-of list if you wanna see what the reviewers REALLY like -- Eric's is choice, by the way. The most common names on everyone's list are Vinny Golia, Barry Guy, Tim Berne, Ellery Eskelin, Joe McPhee. They're not all necessarily "downtown" but who really cares? I guess what struck me about this exchange, and the many other similar debates, is that there are occasionally some rather uncritical defenses of the artists discussed on this list (and no, I'm not suggesting that William York did this). Personally, I think that Zorn has released far too much material in recent years, much of it sub-par. But one of the things I appreciate about ALL his work is a relentless questioning of the musical taken-for-granted. When we start crowning his work with the fawning adulation usually reserved for the Marsalis-clones, then we're falling into some sort of deep irony. I'd love it if Rusch sent me some more "downtown" stuff to review, but would never feel a compulsion to privilege it over other musics. Shit, I'm just happy to get free CDs. Jason Bivins - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:52:07 PDT From: "Scott Handley" Subject: Collectors vs. appreciates: qu'est-ce le difference? My comment I should clarify: it was poorly chosen. I am HAPPY because the Masada recordings are, IMHO, so consistently vital and musical and noticeably different. What great music. My point of view was RELIEF---relief that friends of mine had bought EVERYTHING already so I could hear it and, frankly, experiment w/ my money. I also figured they'd stick around in print for a while. I myself am excited about a box because I'd get to take advantage of the possible outtake discs. If the all-live box was released, I might get that instead. Anyone's investment all along has been sound, I think. An issue which I've thought about stems from Brian Eno's comment to the effect that the problem w/ jazz is that so much of it just sounds like more jazz. I see his point, and to an extent I agree with it. I have a difficult time seeing why someone needs every Hank Mobley album, or for that matter every Masada album. To me there is a general similarity in form and approach (less true with Masada than Mobley, I think). Do we need any more Charles Gayle? Do we need another Derek Bailey solo record? I have an awful lot of Cecil taylor, Evan Parker, and John Coltrane, but to my ears, you can get at least ten by each of them without any two sounding remotely alike. In a music, what is there to know? Creative music seems limitless to me, in theory. How far can we analyze music from one source (be that a person, idea, or culture, even) until we are plitting hairs, and resorting to critical theory to make the redundant interesting? >>....I'm really happy now that all I got was ALEPH. In fact, I'm rolling in >>the aisles. > >I'm a bit curious about this and similar reactions/concerns about the >upcoming Masada box set - especially the "I'm glad I didn't buy them" line. >Personally, I'm glad I've bought them when they came out because I've been >enjoying the hell out of 'em for the past few years. Am I imagining it, or >are some of you more interested in "collecting" rather than actually >listening to and enjoying the music? Just curious. > >Ashley > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:57:39 PDT From: "Scott Handley" Subject: don't read my last post! I just reread my last post. In additin to sounding stupid, the French 101 grammar was missing it's 'que'. Sorry, but I feel the need for public penance. By the way, I just heard the new Dave Douglas MAGIC TRIANGLE, w/ Potter, Perowsky, and Genus, and it's pretty good. Not my favorite DD record, though. Very straight ahead. The instrumentation and approach owe a bit to Masada, and not just superficially. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:36:51 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Masada Box Maybe the delay in releasing the boxed sets (and this is purely wishful thinking) is that they're trying to figure out a better way of releasing them so that the real fans who bought all the single cds don't get ripped off...? - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:06:56 EDT From: JazzmanDOL@aol.com Subject: jazz concert A concert of definate interest to new music fans: Saturday, October 24, 1998 Birmingham Unitarian Church 651 Woodward Bloomfield Hills, Michigan 8:30 PM Leroy Jenkins - violin Myra Melford - piano Joseph Jarman - saxophone Hope many of you can make it!! Only $15!!! Dave Lundin 248-816-1647 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:31:45 -0700 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: david s. ware recommendations? Any good place for a beginner to start? I've read in various places that "Flight of I" would be the disc to pick up, although I have never seen it in any record stores, real or virtual. Thanks in advance, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:02:54 -0300 From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: david s. ware recommendations? Benito Vergara wrote: > > good place for a beginner to start? > "Flight of I" would be the disc Sure, that would be fine. The Great Bliss Vols. 1&2 would also be an "easier" route in than most. A bit more spacious and gentle, maybe... But what are you listening to now? You may want to just jump directly into the fire and buy the new one, GO SEE THE WORLD, which is absolutely, (IMHO) beautiful. If you don't find what you want doing a few searches, let me know and I'll dig some up for you. best regards, Rick Lopez - -- Marilyn Crispell, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman discographies; Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; etc., at-- http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:09:39 EDT From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: Re: Masada Box sorry, maybe i've missed something but i've worked in records stores for 6 years (yes one that carry most tzadik stuff) and have ner seen tzadik release a box set before. have they? if it were to have all the material, and then some it seems tzadik prices would dictate something upwards of $400, which would relegate it to a few choice borders stores and major city jazz stores. doesn't seem like a very profitable prospect to me. are you guys really sure that would ever happen? - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:54:55 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Bacharach Jeff Gretz wrote: > Has anyone heard the McCoy Tyner Bacharach Album? I haven't heard it, but I haven't heard anything at all good about it, either, and I seem to remember a zero-stars review in Pulse. Definitely bottom of your list no matter what you think of the Mighty McCoy. Ahh, Joe Jackson. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:59:25 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: masada 10; etc. TagYrIt@aol.com wrote: > << from the horse's mouth by proxy >> > > .....soon to be the title of the next Soul Asylum LP..... LOL! :-) Steve - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:24:40 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... Jeff Spirer wrote: > At 09:41 AM 9/21/98 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > >*** - THE BEST OF THE GOLDEN PALOMINOS (1983-1989): Golden Palominos > > > > 1997 (1998?) - Music Club (???), MCCD 316 (CD) > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > > >Does anybody has an idea when it came out? Also, what is the country? > > > > There is so much re-licensing of the early (pre-Restless) Golden Palominos > material that it is impossible to keep track. I asked Anton about all of > these re-releases and he said he hadn't seen many of them. Patrice's subsequent message in this thread (which I read before I saw this one) indicated that the material was licensed from Charly, which stands to reason. Music Club is a British budget compilation label distributed in the U.S. by Koch, which means their stuff is actually pretty easy to find. The discs I've seen range from the sublime (a cheap sampler of early Nusrat Ali Khan, a killing dub sampler, a nice survey of Astor Piazzolla's Milan label albums, a Joe Meek collection!?!) to the ridiculous (one more offering of early Sex Pistols boots, anyone? How about Andrew Lloyd Webber on panpipes? Or "The Royal Philaharmonic Plays Oasis" Lame shit that can't even aspire to be the stuff of legend...). There's a website (run by former Goldmine editor Jeff Tamarkin) at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Jeff_Tamarkin/musicclu.htm but I didn't see anything about the Golden Palominos on it. Maybe you want to go through the site and e-mail Jeff (T., not S.). Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP: Jega, "Spectrum" - d'n'b that reminds of both Kraftwerk and Jean-Michel Jarre... hmmm... - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:45:54 -0700 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... At 12:24 AM 9/22/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote: >Patrice's subsequent message in this thread (which I read before I saw this one) >indicated that the material was licensed from Charly, which stands to reason. Charly isn't the originator, however. They licensed it from The Music Company, which owns the rights to Celluloid (along with Subharmonic) and has done the licensing. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:47:29 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: david s. ware recommendations? Benito Vergara wrote: > Any good place for a beginner to start? I've read in various places that > "Flight of I" would be the disc to pick up, although I have never seen it in > any record stores, real or virtual. "Flight of i" is a very good way in, but it's also quite hard to find, as it was a product of a since-lapsed union between DIW and Columbia. But that was the disc that hooked me, and I see it reasonbly often in second-hand shops. I've frequently read that "Third Ear Recitation" is better still, but haven't heard it. Of the discs I know, "Cryptology" and "Dao" impressed me mightily. "Godspelized" is very important for marking the debut of the divine Susie Ibarra and including a fine Sun Ra cover. "Wisdom of Uncertainty" on AUM Fidelity is also very fine. But overall my impression is that the Ware Quartet has been so consistent in its output, even given two changes of drummer, that almost anywhere you start you give you a representative vision. (That said, and no slight to the remarkable Whit Dickey, Susie Ibarra is far and away my favorite percussionist to have played in this group.) And while internet propriety keeps me from shilling too heavily for the new DSW Quartet disc "Go See the World" (because I get paid by Columbia Records among others during daylight hours, and they are DSW's new label), I'll simply say it's in your local store later today if you're interested... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:56:39 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation... Jeff Spirer wrote: > >indicated that the material was licensed from Charly, which stands to reason. > > Charly isn't the originator, however. They licensed it from The Music > Company, which owns the rights to Celluloid (along with Subharmonic) and > has done the licensing. Good grief. The question then remains... are any of the artists who made the music seeing any money whatsoever for the continued life of their own work? (I saw the Charly CD pressing of Zorn/Bailey/Lewis "Yankees" for the first time day before yesterday and wondered the same thing...) That you mention Subharmonic in the same sentence with the words "owns the rights to" makes me think the answer to my question is no... I'd had a pretty fond view of Music Club to this point, but I guess anything good in the music business can be blighted somehow... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP: John Zorn - "The Bribe" (snap...snap...snap...) - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #469 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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