From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #474 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, September 24 1998 Volume 02 : Number 474 In this issue: - 4+1 Ensemble Re: 4+1 Ensemble Collecting/listening methods Re: Collecting/listening methods Re: Liliput Collection arrangements Re: Collection arrangements Re: Collection arrangements Recent Goodie Re: Collection arrangements Re: Collection arrangements Re: Collection arrangements Re: Collection arrangements RE:freefall RE:Freefall Hornby's "High Fidelity" RE: Collecting/listening methods Re: collecting music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:59:47 -0400 From: Bob Kowalski Subject: 4+1 Ensemble - --------re : From: "Julian" / Subject: 4+1 horvitz / Any thoughts on Horvitz's 4 Plus 1 Ensemble? - ----- ---- Wayne has done himself proud on this latest release, which imho is excellent. Don't look for any shronking noise fest though -- more in line with his previous solo album (which I can't remember title of but which I do also recommend.) happy listening Bob - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:21:45 -0700 From: David D Egan Subject: Re: 4+1 Ensemble Bob Kowalski wrote: > > --------re : From: "Julian" / Subject: 4+1 > horvitz / Any thoughts on Horvitz's 4 Plus 1 Ensemble? - ----- ---- > > Wayne has done himself proud on this latest release, which imho is > excellent. Don't look for any shronking noise fest though -- more in > line > with his previous solo album (which I can't remember title of but which > I > do also recommend.) > > happy listening > > Bob Wayne's earlier solo release is "Monologues". I concur - both Monologues and the new 4+1 disc are of a kind, and excellent. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:05:16 EDT From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Collecting/listening methods At 09:44 AM 9/24/98 -0400, Mark Saleski wrote: >at one point one of them talks about how he reorganizes his collection >when something >upsets him greatly. imagine organizing by _date of purchase_! Uh oh, as it turns out, a major part of my collection is filed that way, but not so much by design as by listening method. By way of explanation: Like many Zorn-listers, I am constantly acquiring new recordings, and like many Zorn-listers, I have a very limited amount of free time for listening, with a job or two, a family, etc. In fact, I'm lucky if I get one solid hour per week to just sit down, turn out the lights, and focus on a recording. And even if I only acquired one CD per week (and on average, the number is much higher), I wouldn't have the time to listen even once to a new purchase before stowing it away in the collection, and one listening, if something is worth owning, is not necessarily adequte anyway. I know for many, simply owning it is enough, but that's not me. I like to know what I have by the music, not simply by the label and number. And sure, I can pop plenty of stuff on as background music, but reading "Stuart Little" to my 5-y/o with "Machine Gun" in the background just doesn't cut it for anyone involved. I have worked out a sick little system for myself that everyone I know finds at least a bit weird, if not downright compulsive and nuts, but here it is, after 20 years of doing it. When I buy a disc, I try to give it at least a cursory listening to get a feel for it and make sure it isn't defective. It isn't neccessarily a concentrated listening, often just a background listen while at work or while getting ready for work, etc. Then the disc "gets in line." What this means is that every disc I acquire is eventually gets taped for Walkman or car listening, in the order in which it was acquired. I have four cassettes in rotation for this purpose, 2 in the car, 2 for the Walkman. Every CD eventually ends up on one of these tapes for either 6 listenings (if the compositions are things I'm familiar with, such as standards), or 10 listenings (if there are unfamiliar songs or pieces). For the car, I keep track of the number of listenings using a notepad, and with the Walkman, with each "new" tape, I take 6 or 10 thin pieces of scotch tape, double back the ends, and put them on the Walkman, removing one with each listening (that's where people usually start wondering about me). Since I spend 2 1/2 hours per weekday on a bus or train, and several hours each weekend in the car, my car deck and Walkman are the "stereo components" I end up listening to the most. Sure, neither the train nor the car are ideal listening environments, but you take what you can get. I actually am able to focus pretty seriously on what I am listening to in both locations. This way, I become familiar with everything I buy before it enters the body of my collection, and when I do get some time to sit back and do some at-home quality listening, I don't feel guilty if I don't choose a recent purchase that I haven't given enough time to, since I know it will get its chance later. "Later," however, at this point is approximately four years, the lag time between purchase and car or Walkman. There are 10 shelves worth of CDs waiting in line, but eventually they all get there. Sometimes, however, I do get so hooked on a recent purchase and listen to it so incessantly that it "graduates" into the collection without a turn in the car or Walkman. Of course, the 4-year lag does mean that ocassionally I might not be quite as enthusiastic about something now than I was when I bought it, since there can be subtle, and not so subtle, changes in taste over 4 years. On the other hand, it can also mean that I get that little rush, that little thrill, that you get when first purchasing something all over again 4 years later, because it almost feels like I'm just purchasing it as it enters the Walkman. This is the way that I have managed a collection of 15,000 or so recordings (jazz, classical, bluegrass, whatever) and actually knowing what they sound like! Of course, my fantasy is to be filthy rich with no responsibilities, and be able to do nothing but listen for 9 hours a day. So, if you have any suggestions on how to achieve that, I'd be even more interested. And I'm glad to help make many on the list feel comparitively at least a little bit healthier, pychologically. Dave Royko - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:13:34 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Collecting/listening methods Dave, On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:05:16 EDT DRoyko@aol.com wrote: > > At 09:44 AM 9/24/98 -0400, Mark Saleski wrote: > >at one point one of them talks about how he reorganizes his collection > >when something > >upsets him greatly. imagine organizing by _date of purchase_! > > Uh oh, as it turns out, a major part of my collection is filed that way, but > not so much by design as by listening method. By way of explanation: > ... > I have worked out a sick little system for myself that everyone I know finds > a bit weird, if not downright compulsive and nuts, but here it is, after 20 > years of doing it. Is this based on a true story or is it out of a Nicholson Baker novel? Patrice :-). - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:48:20 -0400 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Liliput > On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:57:36 -0400, Lang Thompson sed: > > A few years back there was a CD reissue of the complete output of Liliput. > Foolishly, I didn't buy it at the time so does anybody still have the > address of the label in Switzerland (?I think) or know of a US source? > Sad to say this is long gone- outta print. The label that put it out, Off Course, is no longer at the address listed on the CD and they are no longer printing the CD or have any copies of this lying around. Marlene, the guitarist, is hawking a book now about Liliput/Kleenex that has a lot of great stories and press clippings. See http://www.furious.com/perfect/liliput.html for details. Best, Jason - -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:53:54 -0700 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Collection arrangements Enjoyed hearing of the guy who arranged his music by date of purchase. Reminded me of a guy who used the chaos theory -- no order whatsoever, despite a couple thousand LPs. How did he find what he wanted? "I just start looking for it. Sometimes I find it but usually I first come across something else I want to hear, something I hadn't thought of. '' Any other interesting arrangement schemes? I'm still in the old fashioned category approach, although I've merged rock with r&b, and given laswell his own section (includes most axioms and laswell's cohorts). But as the music grows ever more promiscuous sytlistically, it's getting kind of sticky. Easy enough to put Naked City under Z under jazz but does Jai Uttal and the Pagan Love Orchestra go under India? - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:07:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: Collection arrangements On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Martin Wisckol wrote: > Any other interesting arrangement schemes? i know a guy who organizes his cd collection by the color of the spine. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:43:11 -0500 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Collection arrangements >Any other interesting arrangement schemes? I used to have my jazz discs arranged by leader's insrument. I started off with trumpet, had my Miles section there near Lee, Dizzy, Clifford, etc. Moved to trombone, as, ts, other reeds, piano, bassists, drummers. I also ended up seperating artists like Zorn, Frisell, Previte, Horvitz, and other contemporary guys into their own area. Needless to say, my roomate could never find anything in my collection. I liked it though. I liked having all the Tzadik discs near eachother. Anyhoo... Dan Hewins - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:13:30 +0200 From: "Felix" Subject: Recent Goodie I got John Lindberg's "Bounce" today, featuring D. Douglas, and it Transformed My Ass! :) Really, it's good, sometimes it gets really wacky! I know what some of you mean when you talk about albums that just sit on the shelf. People are, by nature, dynamic (most people anyway) and some of us end up changing musical tastes. I used to love Death Metal and Grind Core, and now I have a bunch of tapes, vynils and some CD's which I hardly ever listen too anymore. But I enjoyed them in the past and will keep them as a reminder of my musical past. Anyway... Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 15:07:24 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Collection arrangements Martin wrote: >Any other interesting arrangement schemes? I'm still in the old >fashioned category approach, although I've merged rock with r&b, and >given laswell his own section (includes most axioms and laswell's >cohorts). But as the music grows ever more promiscuous sytlistically, >it's getting kind of sticky. Easy enough to put Naked City under Z >under jazz but does Jai Uttal and the Pagan Love Orchestra go under >India? As, since I confessed before, I listen straight through, I find that a strict alpha listing works nicely, jumbling together styles having little or nothing to do with each other. As I'm entering, appropriate to this list, the "Z" phase of my listening (once I get finished with the interminable LaMonte Young!), this will include: Kalil el Zabar (I opted for "Z" rather than "E"), "Zaire Choc!" (a collection from Zaire; when the performers are varied or unlisted, I tend to file by country), some pre 1972 Zappa, a handful of Hector Zazous, an Evan Ziporyn and a passel of things by some guy named Zorn. In fact, it was rather traumatic when my recent first purchase of a Rabih Abou-Khalil release necessitated displacing Muhal from a long-held position at the front of my collection. Muhal Richard Abrams: the Roger Maris of new music. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:44:17 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Collection arrangements In a message dated 9/24/98 4:19:18 PM, brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: <> No Kaoru Abe CDs, huh? Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:53:28 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Collection arrangements On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:44:17 EDT JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > No Kaoru Abe CDs, huh? That's why I have been dragging my feet to buy an Abba compilation... Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:05:19 -0700 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Re: Collection arrangements LOL as Abram as Maris.... Enjoying these responses -- thanks for yours. Hope you're digging Rabih - -- I have three or four and love them all.... You mentioned Zazou -- I have one, the one with music to Rimbaud's words, which I find exceedingly pleasant (in a good way). Any other recommendations from Hector? Haven't searched for him on the web, but at this moment realize I have no idea who this guy is or where he's from or what his bio looks like.... feel free to comment. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: RE:freefall Are these new improvisations or something he taped in the past? My understanding was that Giuffre was quite ill? Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, hijk wrote: > The 5 extra tracks are all solo improvisations taken from the same sessions > and were previously unreleased. Hopefully we can look forward to new solo > recordings from Mr. Giuffre, he's considering an album of solos recorded at > his home. > > Jeff Kent > hijk@gateway.net > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:30:49 -0400 From: "hijk" Subject: RE:Freefall Mr. Giuffre has been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, but he still plays and would like to record again. The problem is that he works at a much slower pace these days and may have trouble finding people to hang around long enough to finish a project. Hence solo recordings. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:34:21 -0400 From: Lang Thompson Subject: Hornby's "High Fidelity" All this discussion about record collecting, organizing and lists makes me think of Nick Hornby's "High Fidelity." It's really an exceptional novel (despite having become a "cult" item for Gen Xers) & probably most people on this list will easily identify with a good bit of it. LT - ------------------------------------------------------ Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n' Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:40:17 -0700 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: Collecting/listening methods > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of DRoyko@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 11:05 AM > > I have worked out a sick little system for myself that everyone I > know Scary. But I'm sure other people out there have systems as well. > Then the disc "gets in line." What this means is that > every disc I acquire is eventually gets taped for Walkman or car > listening, in > the > order in which it was acquired. Now *that* is scary, since I do the same thing. Alas, in these days of satisfaction-guaranteed music stores, I'm somewhat more inclined to give the CD one good listen and if it isn't close to TYA-type music, i.e., Transform Your Ass (this is your fault, Rick!), then it's a good candidate for return or resale. There was a time when I had time to sit in the dark, put on the headphones and concentrate on a CD (I went through a whole slew of Kronos Quartet CDs this way), but alas, that time was short-lived. Now I have to do it while reading the newspaper or something. Anything that passed muster would be played exactly twice (crazy, huh?) on the big stereo, and then placed in a rotating collection of 20-odd CDs, which were eventually taped for the Walkman (when I was a lowly, car-less grad student) or the car, in the order they were purchased. (Unless a concert was coming up, in which case the CD was moved up the car-tape line.) After I grow tired of the CD, I'd tape over the car tape and shelve the CD, to be discovered later. TYA CDs, of course, would stay longer in both rotating collection and car. Which reminds me: I've been using the same 90-minute Maxell tape for both Walkman and car, for the last six years! The rotating collection would also be slightly subdivided into two categories: CDs I could play while my wife was around, and CDs that would probably annoy her (not that it mattered terribly, since I would play them anyway until she would ask, "What *is* this?"), e.g. Godflesh, Painkiller, Nurse With Wound, Naked City, Current 93, post-1965 Coltrane, Brotzmann, etc. (ObZorn: JZ tended to fall in the latter category, except for the Masada discs.) Thus the "annoying" CDs -- plus all the quiet stuff that wouldn't be heard over the car's engine -- would stay in the rotating collection longer to make up for their being deprived of their moment of automotive glory. > "Later," however, at this point is approximately four > years, the lag > time > between purchase and car or Walkman. About three months, for me. Enrolling in those CD clubs sure does create a backlog! > And I'm glad to help make many on the list feel comparitively at least a > little bit healthier, pychologically. Yeah, that part about the pieces of scotch tape made me sigh with relief. =) And about those listening groups -- they sound really interesting. Any helpful suggestions on how to organize one? Do you listen to music thematically, chronologically, or whatever? (Respond privately if you want.) Later, Ben np: david s. ware quartet, "lexicon" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:53:31 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: collecting music Mark Saleski wrote: > there's a great book i read a while back: High Fidelity by Nick Hornby. Fabulous book. Part old/new fashioned love story, part character study of obsessive music fans. The quality of writing about pop music is, as these British guys would say, "spot on." > at one point one of them talks about how he reorganizes his collection > when something > upsets him greatly. imagine organizing by _date of purchase_! No matter how upset I get about other things in life, nothing will move my records... Gotta find that book about collectors Jeff recommended... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #474 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". 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