From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #480 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, September 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 480 In this issue: - RE: Who cares? Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music RE: Who cares? Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Re: Dick Re: Who cares? Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Solipsistic Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Re: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Re: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:24:54 -0400 From: Charles Jacobus Subject: RE: Who cares? There are others. We're just patiently holding our tongues. It is frustrating. Charles. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gene Natalia [SMTP:anubis9@concentric.net] > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 5:06 PM > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Who cares? > > Can we end this ridiculous thread where every geek on the list tells all > the other geeks how he alphabetizes? Here's how I file my cd's: I put > them where I can find them, which happens to be alphabetically. It's a > personal thing that varies from person to person. I don't feel egocentric > enough to detail to you all MY PERSONAL method of filing everything. I > have a hard time believing that you all find one another's methods of > categorization so intriguing that we need dozens of posts about it. I > sure > don't enjoy receiving 12 e-mails a day regarding where 2Live Crew goes in > your collections. I notice a trend on this list where many people feel > COMPELLED to get their 2 cents in, regardless of whether they're just > being > redundant or irrelevant. Can we shed these solipsistic tendencies? I > can't believe there aren't others who share my sentiments. I apologize if > I'm wrong, and everyone else enjoys a myriad of useless e-mails per day. > I > just hate sifting through all your posts every day to find the one or two > worth reading. If I'm wrong, let me know. I do understand what it's like > to find kindred spirits to discuss these sorts of thing with. I know not > many people have cd collections that number in the hundreds, but get over > it. > > > Ethan Danberry > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 06:46:36 -0700 From: "Christian Heslop" Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music I think John's recommendations of "A Scanner Darkly", "Ubik", and "The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch" should do nicely. I think one often overlooked is "A Maze of Death".It's subject matter is particularly relevant today, and it isn't often you get to meet a character named Ignatz Thug. Dick's ubiquitious theological theme is strong in "Maze". He poses a very interesting archetypal pattern of deity that I think is frighteningly accurate. If those archetypes were not inspired by something else, then Dick may very well have managed to divide all earthly gods into three very distinct and easily assigned categories. Suggesting a deep commonality in humankind's disparate beliefs. Not just a conceptual resemblance, but a resemblance that suggests common ancestry rather than common projection.(I'm really sorry if that doesnt make much sense; it's 6:00 in the morning).But Scanner and Ubik are both beautiful novels. Scanner in particular is one that will never cease to haunt you. I have enjoyed all of Dick's novels, but have never been particularly fond os his short stories...on the whole. - ---------- > From: Steve Smith ... I need to read some Philip K. Dick in a > hurry. Any pointers as to where to begin, and from thence to...? - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:49:05 -0400 From: Caleb Deupree Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Smith writes: Steve> Anyway, another relatively recent favorite book is Jeff Steve> Noon's "Vurt," which I thought was one of the best new SF Steve> concept novels since "Neuromancer." I was, admittedly, Steve> less taken with "Pollen" and "Automated Alice." And in Steve> general I am not an SF reader, so it's quite likely that Steve> there are any number of fine things in that field that I've Steve> missed. A somewhat recent SF novel (1995) that I thought was very well done is Gun with Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem, which combines a strange PKDick future with Raymond Chandler. And my vote on where to start with PKDick is also Valis, but FWIW, Man in the High Castle was his only Hugo winner. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change. Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:56:40 -0400 From: Marc Downing Subject: RE: Who cares? >> I don't feel egocentric >> enough to detail to you all MY PERSONAL method of filing everything. Yes you do. >> Can we end this ridiculous thread where every geek on the list tells all >> the other geeks how he alphabetizes? Here's how I file my cd's: I put >> them where I can find them, which happens to be alphabetically. See? And don't call me a geek. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:08:32 -0700 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music At 09:49 AM 9/28/98 -0400, Caleb Deupree wrote: >A somewhat recent SF novel (1995) that I thought was very well done is >Gun with Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem, which combines a strange >PKDick future with Raymond Chandler. I sent email to Steve on this book, which I also thought quite good. I am wondering about his first book, _Amnesia Moon_. Jeff http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:12:17 -0700 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Dick At 12:22 AM 9/28/98 -0700, Gene Natalia wrote: >Incidentally, there is a 2 disc experimental hip hop compilation called >Valis II, put together by Bill Laswell, I think... There was also a Valis I, briefly available on Subharmonic. Jeff Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ Photography: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:09:15 EDT From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Who cares? In a message dated 98-09-27 01:44:58 EDT, you write: << In a message dated 9/26/98 17:37:25, you wrote: >solipsistic this is gonna be my new word of the week. great music, great books, now great vocabulary words. this list has everything! - >> I'm still salivating on every possible opportunity to use "from the horse's mouth by proxy." Thanks loads for that one Steve! Dale. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:15:46 -0400 (EDT) From: alissa bader Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music It's been a while since I've read Phillip Dick. But one of my personal favorites is _The Man in the High Castle_. I really like the way the author switches history around--the whole parallel universe thing. I also like the Perky Pat/Connie Companion Doll dichotomy: that was first talked about in _The Galactic Pot-Healer_, right? (again, it's been a while since I've read his stuff, so I apologize in advance if I get the titles wrong). One thing to remember about Phillip Dick is he's more of an idealist than a writer. His books don't, in general, come off as skillfully-written novels. This is probably because he wrote many of them very quickly, little to no time for revisions, etc. Not to say he's not worth reading at all, on the contrary. But his style can be a bit weak and confusing, so you have to look past that. - --Alissa On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Christian Heslop wrote: > I think John's recommendations of "A Scanner Darkly", "Ubik", and "The > Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch" should do nicely. I think one often > overlooked is "A Maze of Death".It's subject matter is particularly > relevant today, and it isn't often you get to meet a character named Ignatz > Thug. Dick's ubiquitious theological theme is strong in "Maze". He poses a > very interesting archetypal pattern of deity that I think is frighteningly > accurate. If those archetypes were not inspired by something else, then > Dick may very well have managed to divide all earthly gods into three very > distinct and easily assigned categories. Suggesting a deep commonality in > humankind's disparate beliefs. Not just a conceptual resemblance, but a > resemblance that suggests common ancestry rather than common > projection.(I'm really sorry if that doesnt make much sense; it's 6:00 in > the morning).But Scanner and Ubik are both beautiful novels. Scanner in > particular is one that will never cease to haunt you. I have enjoyed all of > Dick's novels, but have never been particularly fond os his short > stories...on the whole. > > ---------- > > From: Steve Smith > ... I need to read some Philip K. Dick in a > > hurry. Any pointers as to where to begin, and from thence to...? > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 09:33:32 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Steve Smith wrote: >Anyway, another relatively recent favorite book is Jeff Noon's "Vurt," which I >thought was one of the best new SF concept novels since "Neuromancer." I was, >admittedly,less taken with "Pollen" and "Automated Alice." And in general I am >not an SF reader so it's quite likely that there are any number of fine things >in that field that I've missed. I always _want_ to like new SF much more than I end up actually enjoying 99% of the things that come by (it has to be one of the most watered-down literary genres around), but among those current writers whose works I do enjoy with some regularity are: Lucius Shepard Gene Wolfe Howard Waldrop Jeez, there must be others, but many are hit and miss. Blaylock, Nancy Kress (the novella version of 'Beggars in Spain' was wonderful), Saberhagen. Actually, easily the best SF novel I've read in years (though, AFAIK, it garnered virtually no recognition in the SF field), was John Updike's 'Toward the End of Time'. If your average SF writer had one tenth of Updike's writing ability, the field would be in far healthier shape. Brian Olewnick (NP: E. Sharp's 'Tocsin' NR: 'Ulysses') - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:49:28 -0400 From: "hijk" Subject: Solipsistic Solipsistic Incidentally, the title of the new Henry Rollins book. JK - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:12:03 -0400 From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese) Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music >At 09:49 AM 9/28/98 -0400, Caleb Deupree wrote: > >>A somewhat recent SF novel (1995) that I thought was very well done is >>Gun with Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem, which combines a strange >>PKDick future with Raymond Chandler. > >I sent email to Steve on this book, which I also thought quite good. I am >wondering about his first book, _Amnesia Moon_. > >Jeff >http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom > >- _Amnesia Moon_ I took as almost an homage to ole pkd, but a quite good one which benefits from a more consistent and plotted approach than most of the early pkd. However, it thereby suffers in loss of energy and general mystery. It's a good meditation on loss and nostalgia that resolutely refuses to explain itself too literally--which I see as of paramount imporatance in this genre and something which pkd often fell victim to. Go read pkd first (my votes _do androids dream..._, _valis_, _three stigmata..._, _ubik_) and then this. Jon mentioned Murakami, who definately is also plumbing the post pkd universe. I haven't read his recent one's cause they haven't been remaindered yet, but _Wild Sheep Chase_ a fun romp and highly recomended and _Hard Boiled Wonderland..._ is simply profoundly strange though kinda left me cold in the end. One of the best current sf new new wave I've read is Jack Womack's _Elvissy_, an abominatably sad sad novel about horrific alternate realities, one of which tries to steal the other's Elvis to use his deityhood to sell product. All told in frustrating future speak that verbifies every adjective. This book contains many many sad, horrific, just errie scenes so that the slightest human kindness shown toward the end becomes a magnificent jesture. If the obvious 'avant-pop' sensibility of the plot turns you off, don't be detered: real human feeling herin. I thought _vurt_ was great romp, although it's pkd does punk was quite obvious, it was all in good fun. I read this right after Ian Bank's _walking on glass_ (good _gormengast_ references and general mystery feel, but 'suprise shocker end a real snooze): what is it with Brit authors and sex with one's sister? I have to second the high recomendation for William T. Vollman--read him before he self destructs on the 2000page violence meditation--or at least his brilliant half; often unparsable from the self indulgent half. _Rainbow Stories_ still remains the best introduction to his many facets (good and bad). _Rifles_ was the most radical insertion of history into his life or his life into history that has been hinted at throughout his Seven Dreams project, and as as a slim volume it's good shot of that stuff (_iceshirt_ and _father and crows_ are great also). Everything else has it's ups and downs. ok, shutting up now.., Any body have recomendations for Don Webb or Steve Erickson? matt - ------ "Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it kept them apart, spatially." - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:32:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music My fave Phillip K Dick books haven't come up on the list yet, to my surprise: The Divine Invasion, The Transmigration of Timothy Archer, and Radio Free Albemuth. But I'd also strongly recommend A Scanner Darkly and many others. Not a great writer stylistically, but his ideas were top-notch and often hilarious. For a good homage to PKD, read Michael Bishop's "The Secret Ascension". (It's been a while since I've read PKD -- been mostly reading Spinrad, Ellison, and Delany (and I keep telling myself that one of these years, I'll get back to writing my opera of Dhalgren).) - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:50:14 -0400 From: Sean Terwilliger Subject: Re: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music At 09:33 AM 9/28/98 -0500, brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > Lucius Shepard > Gene Wolfe > Howard Waldrop > > Jeez, there must be others, but many are hit and miss. Blaylock, Nancy > Kress (the novella version of 'Beggars in Spain' was wonderful), > I really must urge you to check out Tim Powers if you haven't already. Wonderfully intricate, loopy plots. Try _Last Call_, _Anubis Gates_ or _The Stress of her Regard_. - -Sean - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 12:47:26 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music Joseph Zitt wrote: >It's been a while since I've read PKD -- been mostly reading Spinrad, >Ellison, and Delany (and I keep telling myself that one of these years, >I'll get back to writing my opera of Dhalgren).) Ah! There's the obvious one I left out of my previous brief list: Delaney. "Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand" is a wonderful, dense, SF meditation on all things Delaney, but outside of the strictly SF genre, I'd highly recommend his autobiography, "The Motion of Light on Water" as well as his utterly strange, stomach-turning (for me, anyway, who's never considered, um, the gastronomical values of the, how should I say this? the genital equivalent of toe jam), obsessive and compelling "Mad Man". As a writer very much in vogue among the literary elite (possibly the only black, gay, leftist in the genre), it amused me how little (if ANY) coverage 'Mad Man' received when it was published. It was as if the attitude was, "We like having you fill your little niche, Samuel, but really! you've gone too, too far here!" I haven't read his 'Hogg' yet, which apparently travels down similar roadways (though written much earlier, it remained "unpublishable" until recently). I've been meaning to reread 'Dhalgren' one of these days though; curious how it holds up. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:02:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > Ah! There's the obvious one I left out of my previous brief list: > Delaney. "Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand" is a wonderful, > dense, SF meditation on all things Delaney, Yeah! That's a wonderful book. I wish he'd get around to releasing the second half of the diptych -- a few pages of it surfaced in a small zine a few years back, but he's been off on other tangents (like the Neveryon series, which, while interesting, are denser than neutrinos). > As a writer very much in vogue > among the literary elite (possibly the only black, gay, leftist in the > genre), it amused me how little (if ANY) coverage 'Mad Man' received > when it was published. It was as if the attitude was, "We like having > you fill your little niche, Samuel, but really! you've gone too, too > far here!" Er, yeah. I ran across Mad Man in a used book store, and was surprised that I hadn't heard about it... until I read it. Probably not the best book to read during lunch. (I could imagine Naked City doing a soundtrack, though...) > I haven't read his 'Hogg' yet, which apparently travels > down similar roadways (though written much earlier, it remained > "unpublishable" until recently). I've been meaning to reread > 'Dhalgren' one of these days though; curious how it holds up. For me, it still works. But then, it's a favorite -- I think I've given more people copies of it than any other book with the possible exception of "The Elements of Style". - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #480 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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