From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #490 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, October 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 490 In this issue: - Re: Need help with guitar recs Re: Need help with guitar recs Re: Need help with guitar recs Orange Jews, David S Ware Bill FRISELL discography - update RE: masada question Micro-Zorn-soft Previte at the KF RE: Need Help Re: Previte at the KF naked lunch Re: naked lunch Re: Previte at the KF Zorn, Microsoft, ads Re: Actual Post Regarding Zorn Re: Zorn, Microsoft, ads Re: David S. Ware in St. Louis (review) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 02:26:25 -0500 From: nils Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs > Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by: > Derek Bailey? A big second on Wireforks (Shanachie). Some fine playing, and unlike his solo work (obviously), good group interaction. > BTW, is "The Sign of 4" any good? Depends on what you like. I thought it was great. It's Bailey's record. Metheny makes the stretch to the out playing, and it comes out interesting, sort of like Pat trying to play like Derek. You're never going to see that on record again for a while. There are 3 discs, with studio and live work, electric and acoustic, lots of weird guitar instruments played by Metheny. The second disc (if I remember the order properly) contains a huge wallop of electric energy, it's pretty hard to listen all the way through. (I made it once.) The production is a little spotty in places--problems with sound levels; players drown each other out a lot (Bailey gets lost in the mix). So it's hardly crystal clear. But that's not real high on my list of important things about records. For other interesting guitarists, you should check out Tronzo (who has done things with Spanish Fly and in his own groups, a breezy funky slide guitar style); and also there's a record out last year by Rod Poole called The Death Adder, an amazing mysterious hunk of microtonality (which I quite frankly don't really get). nils - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 02:36:54 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs In a message dated 10/4/98 2:29:10 AM, jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu wrote: <> Poole has a second CD just out on the same label, WIN Records, called December 96. It's in much the same vein as The Death Adder. More info at www.winrecords.com. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 02:58:07 EDT From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs if u r into layered noise, i recommend zero tolerance for silence by pat metheny. i have heard lots of stories about how this came to be recorded, but i don't know for sure what is true or apocrypha. i do know i like what it sounds like and it is on geffen. noise rock on a major label. kick ass - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:10:49 -0400 (EDT) From: William York Subject: Orange Jews, David S Ware :ORANGE JEWS - IT AIN'T JUST FOR BREAKFAST ANYMORE: various artists > > This record features Andy Statman, David Krakauer, Wally Brill, Andy Haas, > Uri Caine, Anthony Coleman, Gary Lucas, etc. > > 1998 - Knitting Factory Records (USA), KFR-222 (CD) > > Note: not released yet (planned for April 1998). They released it under the name _Jewish Alternative Movement: A Guide for the Perplexed_, I think, and it came out maybe in June. I guessed they realized what a bad title that was. I think the Hasidic New Wave CD that came out at the same time also had its name changed from something like About David S. Ware (from Dan Hewins' review) >.... A highlight of the performance was a standard (I can't remember which). A > part of it was played by the trio sans Ware and that was something. Shipp > and the other two would phase in and out of playing the tune in a > borderline cheesy way and pounding and such. I enjoyed that. I'll bet this was "The Way We Were" which is on the new CD. I liked this effect too, the first few times, but Shipp has done it with "Autumn Leaves", "Take the A Train", "Solitude" and maybe others. I like all of these but its starting to maybe seem a little schtick-y in a weird way. > I couldn't help but think about Bloodcount, which has it's fair > share of honking and wailing. The only difference is that they seem to > play as a group whereas the Ware quartet was four people playing at the > same time on the same stage. Braxton's quartets (We listened to Dortmund > when we got home) have the same kind of group attitude as Bloodcount. I agree completely. I mean I like Pharaoh Sanders, Cecil Taylor, Peter Brotzmann, _Spy vs Spy_, and lots of other things most people run from, but I just don't get David S. Ware. I like Shipp's better, but can't help feeling like he's a little overrated (and that Ware is WAY overrated). And I love Bloodcount too. But, I realize other people like Ware, its just my opinion, but I won't be spending any more money on his stuff. William Parker's quartet and big band have done some sstuff that I liked a lot more, FWIW. The Gold Sparkle Band from Atlanta put out a 7" of 2 songs by Shipp and that was very good, I thought. (T > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:28:42 +0200 From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: Bill FRISELL discography - update Hi! I'm very glad to announce the update of Bill FRISELL discography. It is available at http://www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm. I'm looking forward to your comments. Big thanks to all contributors! :-) Take care! Artur - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:18:57 -0700 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: masada question Thanks to those who answered my "West Coast Masada" question. Additionally, in the SF Examiner today they confirmed the lineup for the Masada concert in SF on November 8: Zorn, Baron, Cohen and Douglas. Needless to say, yeeha! Also, the John Schott Group (previously billed as John Schott's In These Times) is apparently not playing from "In These Times;" he "debuts a new quintet and presents the World Premiere of his latest major competition" (according to the SF Jazz Fest ad). Also, I have a CD of Zorn's "Aporias" for trade. E-mail me if interested (in the US only, please). Thanks, Ben np: john zorn, "two-lane highway" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:41:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Micro-Zorn-soft I just witmessed a comercial from Microsoft; the back-ground music was "the Heist" featuring Marc Ribot off Zorn's Filmworks 1 album. Look for it! - -Theodorus - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:24:01 -0400 From: Alan E Kayser Subject: Previte at the KF I understand that the Bobby Previte 20th Anniversary shows were broadcast over the KF site. Anyone tape this? Answer privately, please. Alan E Kayser - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:44:59 -0400 From: "hijk" Subject: RE: Need Help For more great solo electric guitar stylings check out Marc Ducret's Un Certain Malaise on Tim Berne's Screwgun label. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:00:33 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Previte at the KF Alan E Kayser wrote: > > I understand that the Bobby Previte 20th Anniversary shows were > broadcast over the KF site. Anyone tape this? Answer privately, > please. Is the KF webcasting again? I had thought that they had stopped doing it since Zorn had his (appropriate) shitfit at them. - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:08:07 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: naked lunch Maybe someone can explain this to me... I saw the Naked Lunch soundtrack on a cd catalog and did some followup searching. I came across the soundtrack which featured Ornette Coleman which was the cd on sale on the catalog. But there was also a spoken word thing by William Burroughs. It wasn't available, but does this spoken word thing also feature Frisell, Horvitz and Kang? And does it have a relationship to the soundtrack cd? - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:28:12 -0400 From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: naked lunch The soundtrack is for the movie, and has nothing to do with the reading by Burroughs. The reading is a 3 CD set featuring uncle Bill reading various sections from Naked Lunch and Frisell, Horvitz and Kang adding incidental music. At 1:08 PM +1000 10/5/98, Julian wrote: >Maybe someone can explain this to me... > >I saw the Naked Lunch soundtrack on a cd catalog and did some followup >searching. I came across the soundtrack which featured Ornette Coleman >which was the cd on sale on the catalog. But there was also a spoken word >thing by William Burroughs. It wasn't available, but does this spoken word >thing also feature Frisell, Horvitz and Kang? And does it have a >relationship to the soundtrack cd? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:57:46 EDT From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Previte at the KF In a message dated 10/4/98 11:05:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jzitt@humansystems.com writes: > > Is the KF webcasting again? I had thought that they had stopped doing it > since Zorn had his (appropriate) shitfit at them. I think they still webcast, unless the artist wishes otherwise. Wether or not it's worth recording is another thing. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:10:11 -0400 (EDT) From: jnschust@sas.upenn.edu (Joshua N Schuster) Subject: Zorn, Microsoft, ads I only get the digest, so this debate may already be raging, so apologies if I repeat. On TV, I saw a Microsoft ad that used a Zorn song. I don't really care about that fact, but there are some questions it allows me to ask. The song, I believe, is on Filmworks I, track 3, "The Heist", basically Robert Quine jamming to a rhythm I enjoy. A Weiden and Kennedy ad-- I don't know. The ad campaign for Microsoft seems to be failing. If they want to humanize their product, showing boring people with impersonal camera angles in cold rooms--anyways, Microsoft always knew the consumer is irrelevant in hi-tech; as long as you can destroy competitors, you leave the customer with no choice. Sorry, my questions: the song is almost all Quine. So now that money is involved--I'm simply curious--who gets it? Did Zorn really compose the piece, or merely direct it, set its mood and orchestration (he'd have to be a whiz on the guitar to figure out that rhythm)? Is the song Quine's, Zorn's, the filmmaker's, the record label's (I guess Zorn has the label rights if he bought it back from Elektra to reissue it)? This questions could extend to numerous pieces on Zorn albums. Zorn may set the song's mood, pace and concept, but in many cases the music played clearly is a result of the skilled musician with a clear stylistic signature. So the piece may be collaborative, but suddenly someone's getting paid. (Hm..., what about the moral implications of selling music to Microsoft, of all monopolies?) When I think of it, there are many Zorn songs that would make great ad music. Something about Marc Ribot's playing also makes me think it would be catchy with the consumer (not a negative comment, I think his playing is great). Zorn and the scene are great at those short, 20-1:20 sec. catchy bursts of music. It may be an influence of film with its short-lived spots of music for transition and melodrama. But surely it's also a factor of the music market. With so many albums and musicians, the market is patient only for short songs which are easy to grasp both for musicians and listeners. In the absence of time to develop the music for busy musicians and impatient, distracted listeners, one takes advantage of the short tune, easily identified and understood by both. Plus it's catchy and we recognize the attitude and theme immediately--hence great music for TV ads. There is a lot of marketing and economics going on here, and it's not just the packaging. I think Zorn's theorized his game pieces in political and, ultimately, economic terms, if only in terms of production and consumption: a game piece is easily portable, adapts to number of participants (producers and consumers), not too much practice time required. Take filmwworks "Tears of Ecstasy"--recorded in one day, with each song lasting about one minute I think it says (these are arbitrary, numerical constraints, not like Masada, set up as a cultural, historical decision). In part, the one day session works because a mood can probably hold for a day's duration, so the formal time constraints may help produce and reinforce the mood of the music. But also the musicians are busy--one day in the study not a big deal. The songs are all brief. Great music, yes, with the help of putting economical constraint's to the music's favor. It's probably not long before one of the tracks is picked up by ad agencies. That late track, the western-like one with the hootin' n' hollerin' "he-yah"--would be great for the Marlboro man, or Microsoft, roping in more competitors like cattle. - -Josh Schuster - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:55:15 +0200 From: Yves Dewulf Subject: Re: Actual Post Regarding Zorn > This is old info (Douglas mentioned it to me in 1995!), but there was a > project to release the following two sets on Tzadik: > *** - LIVE IN JERUSALEM: Masada > ???? - Tzadik (USA), ??? (CD) > > Note: not released yet. > *** - LIVE AT MOGADOR: Masada > > ???? - Tzadik (USA), ??? (CD) > > Note: not released yet. A bit late, but nevertheless: The Belgium radio taped the concert of Masada at the Luchtbal, Antwerp (spring 1996) and announced that the recording would be part of a 5 CD-set. This Box would also contain this Jerusalem-concert as well as 3 other gigs. I believe this same mastodont has currently expanded to a 10 (or 12 ?) live-box of Masada recordings! YVes - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:08:24 -0700 From: cappyd Subject: Re: Zorn, Microsoft, ads This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------8D1BE215135F6D984DB1B26A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sorry, my questions: the song is almost all Quine. So now that money is > involved--I'm simply curious--who gets it? Did Zorn really compose the > piece, or merely direct it, set its mood and orchestration (he'd have to > be a whiz on the guitar to figure out that rhythm)? Is the song Quine's, > Zorn's, the filmmaker's, the record label's (I guess Zorn has the label > rights if he bought it back from Elektra to reissue it)? This questions > could extend to numerous pieces on Zorn albums. Zorn may set the song's > mood, pace and concept, but in many cases the music played clearly is a > result of the skilled musician with a clear stylistic signature. So the > piece may be collaborative, but suddenly someone's getting paid. (Hm..., > what about the moral implications of selling music to Microsoft, of all > monopolies?) Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is named as the composer, he would get everything. There are 2 rights involved here: (i) copyright in the sound recording, and (ii) copyright in the composition. If the piece was too "improvised" for Zorn to have any copyright, neither would the performer. A "performer's right" in their performance has recently been enacted in some jurisdictions, but this only applies if the performer is recorded without their consent (i.e. bootlegs - although the US now has dedicated legislation for these). In reality, where an all original recording is made, contracts are usually signed which assign all rights in the recording (either to the producer or the label) just so there's no arguing later, and arrange for royalties for the composition (e.g. 50/50 between composer and publisher). Also, where a work is commissioned (eg Zorn pays performer to compose the work) it becomes a "work for hire" and - you guessed it - Zorn is deemed owner of copyright. No copyright in style either. I can't wait to see the commercial. As far as doubting Zorn's ability to compose in detail for guitar, check out "The Book of Heads" (or "Carny" in respect of piano). Disclaimer: this was not legal advice! Only my opinion! - -cd - --------------8D1BE215135F6D984DB1B26A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Cappone D'Angelo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Cappone D'Angelo n: D'Angelo;Cappone org: Faculty of Law adr: ;;;Victoria BC;;;Canada email;internet: cappyd@uvic.ca title: University of Victoria tel;work: (604) 904-5800 note: Law Student / Sonic Editor / Audiophile x-mozilla-cpt: ;2 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------8D1BE215135F6D984DB1B26A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Cappone D'Angelo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Cappone D'Angelo n: D'Angelo;Cappone org: Faculty of Law adr: ;;;Victoria BC;;;Canada email;internet: cappyd@uvic.ca title: University of Victoria tel;work: (604) 904-5800 note: Law Student / Sonic Editor / Audiophile x-mozilla-cpt: ;2 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------8D1BE215135F6D984DB1B26A-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:41:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: David S. Ware in St. Louis (review) On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > What's the point of having a composed head if the solo parts have > nothing to do with it? what??? ever heard of ornette coleman? b - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #490 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com