From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #505 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, October 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 505 In this issue: - Locus Solus Re: Glenn Branca at the Knit Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Jane Cortez Re: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor Re: The book of heads RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Re: Jane Cortez Re: Jane Cortez RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Re: Locus Solus Re: Locus Solus Naked City style jumps RE: Locus Solus Carl Stalling Project vol. 3? Re[2]: Locus Solus Re: Naked City style jumps Re: Re: Naked City style jumps Re: Naked City style jumps Re: Naked City style jumps | edward ZEIZEL | Re[2]: Naked City style jumps winter winter Hikaru Hayashi tzadik site Re: Naked City style jumps ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:11:38 +0200 From: Cerato Marco Subject: Locus Solus I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS". Thank you in advance, Marco - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:46:34 +0000 From: Dan Kuehn Subject: Re: Glenn Branca at the Knit Hey, I saw, or sort of saw, and heard Glenn B on the knet, i mean the net. The RealAudio is a real challenge, but it serves to give us in the hinterlands a glimpse, even if through a glass darkly. And when it works and when it's good, it can be pretty good. Glenn had some interesting comments before the first show. Apparently in response to the Zorn incident (where he pulled the plug on the camera after realizing it's ALWAYS on), there's now a sign in the Main Stage dressing room that sez something to the effect "performers are advised to refrain from personal conversation onstage" ... I guess one might say music is a kind of personal conversation... He then addressed all the people squinting at that little picture on the computer screen and putting up with the poor audio (that's me)-- He said, "Get a life!" Actually, it wasn't bad, I'd never heard'im before All noise no melody, but rich and changing all the time two guitars & percussion, I think, but the picture really was bad. I did tape, tho... - -- Dan Kuehn - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:44:50 -0400 From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing >I recall that Don Byron said that Zorn's strength was not so much as a >composer but as a "leader of men". I think it may have come up in the >archives. Yes, he said this to me at a pre-concert discussion here. The question asked was how he compared his own sweeping genre interests to those the likes of John Zorn and Bill Frisell. It's also interesting that Mr. Byron said Bill's (and Joey Baron, for that matter) interest in other genres was really brought about by Zorn, that Frisell was a fairly straight-ahead player before he met Zorn. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:08:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: Geert Buelens Subject: Jane Cortez Is this the same person as the poet Jane Cortez? > >There is a great album that Ornette Coleman's X-wife put out and it > >also has his son Denardo on drums. Her name is Jane Cortez and it is > >wonderful stuff. > > > >-Mary - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:10:10 -0400 From: philz Subject: Re: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor Steve Smith wrote: > >If you can find "Haiku Lingo" by Hirsch and Weinstein, that's a fine one, but >it took me years to track down. I'm kind of late getting back on this one, but Hirsch and Weinstein's "Haiku Lingo" was recently reissued on rere on cd. You might want to check dmg/verge/cuneiform to see if they have a copy, it's definitely worth having! philz - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 10:15:40 EDT From: "M.Ho" Subject: Re: The book of heads > > hi, im a new member of the list. i have just recieved the score to book of > heads from zorn and am about to start working on it/studying it. anyone else > have experience with it? i'd love to hear from you. When Marc Ribot performed it in Richmond, he went through the score with me after the show and Ribot basically said it dosnt make too much sense without zorn sitting with you to explain it. Do you feel the same. The score is written in a manner that can be taken with many different interpretations. Do you think that was intended or do you think zorn is adament about having his music played the way he wants it to be played? - -Mary - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:33:08 -0400 From: "hijk" Subject: RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing "a leader of men" Don't they say the same about Ellington and Zappa. jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:22:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Paul Audino Subject: Re: Jane Cortez On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Geert Buelens wrote: > Is this the same person as the poet Jane Cortez? Yes. > > >There is a great album that Ornette Coleman's X-wife put out and it > > >also has his son Denardo on drums. Her name is Jane Cortez and it is > > >wonderful stuff. Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:13:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Jane Cortez The compulsive preefreader in me notes that she spells her name "Jayne", not "Jane". (Useful to know if you're doing a Web search on her name.) - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:48:11 -0400 From: Charles Jacobus Subject: RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing I agree (although I don't mean to discount his talent as a composer). Zorn really brings out the best in people! And he has enough good sense to more or less let them do their thing. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joseph Zitt [SMTP:jzitt@humansystems.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 1998 2:36 PM > To: Risser Family > Cc: 'zorn-list@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing > > Risser Family wrote: > > I think that's why Zorn's stuff is so great, not just because his > talents as a player and a composer, but as a... producer? Gatherer? > Something like that. > > I recall that Don Byron said that Zorn's strength was not so much as a > composer but as a "leader of men". I think it may have come up in the > archives. > > -- > ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- > |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| > ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| > |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:38:13 EDT From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Locus Solus In a message dated 10/19/98 4:13:23, you wrote: >I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS". >Thank you in advance, > > > Marco it was one of my 1st half dozen jz purchases. i had not been this excited by a jz cd since _naked city_. i enjoy it quite a bit. its just kinda hard to describe - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:57:46 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Locus Solus On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:38:13 EDT Sulacco@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/19/98 4:13:23, you wrote: > > >I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS". > >Thank you in advance, > > > > > > Marco > > it was one of my 1st half dozen jz purchases. i had not been this excited by a > jz cd since _naked city_. i enjoy it quite a bit. its just kinda hard to > describe One of the most insane record ever made. Four different lineups producing terse (in the sense of total lack of redundancy), energetic, and dense improv with a rock edge. Not for the faint of heart. Still sounds fresh and innovative 14 years after. One of my top 20. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:16:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Gretz Subject: Naked City style jumps In exmanining the Naked City output you would find that more often than not. A steady style is maintained throuought the song. Most of the self titled disc maintains whatever style is introduced at the beginning of the song. as does a good portion of torture garden, All of Leng T'che, Absinthe, Heretic, and (with the exception of the title track) Grand Guignol. So, if you like Naked City's jump-cut style. I'd say go with the Self-titled disc, Torture Garden and Radio. Most everything else though is pretty consistent. I guess it's just tunes like Speedfreaks and Snagglepuss that strike most listeners as the "naked city sound". jeff - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:49:12 -0400 From: "hijk" Subject: RE: Locus Solus I love the new liner notes for this album. Zorn says, "I was totally convinced that this was going to 'hit the charts'. What charts? On Mars? I guess I've never been too in touch with the marketplace." Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:51:13 -0400 From: "hijk" Subject: Carl Stalling Project vol. 3? Does anyone know if there will be a Vol. 3 in the Carl Stalling Project series? - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 13:11:02 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Locus Solus Patrice wrote: >One of the most insane record ever made. Four different lineups producing >terse (in the sense of total lack of redundancy), energetic, and dense >improv with a rock edge. Not for the faint of heart. >Still sounds fresh and innovative 14 years after. One of my top 20. Curious. While, as Steve's fond of pointing out, your mileage may vary, I find 'Locus Solus' to be of far greater historical value than strictly musical. It was actually the first Zorn record I ever bought; I'd heard him as sideman with others, including the Palominos and Frank Lowe, but this was my first exposure to his own conception. At the time (around 1984-5?), I thought it was an interesting, potentially promising, variation on things by DNA and other "No Wave" bands, perhaps with freer improv and clearly with a strong, guiding intelligence at work. Certainly, there are many "seeds" of Zorn's later development in evidence here, but it strikes me that, shortly thereafter, due to his exposure to the wonders of the recording studio when doing the Monk and Weill tributes and/or simply a rapid maturation as an artist, he shifted gears drastically (and, IMHO, productively). I happened to listen to 'Locus Solus' last week, and still find that, to me, some pieces work pretty well (much of Sides C & D on the LP), others sound immaturely experimental, in the manner of much of his (and his cohorts') work of the late 70's and early 80's. I understand that there is a tendency for backlash against an artist who's achieved some level of success (Zorn's been around long enough for at least two of these by now, I would think) and the nostalgia for that golden pre-notoriety era (not accusing you of this, Patrice--I strongly respect your judgment....usually ;-)). I caught a healthy dollop of this genre of improv in the late 70's by many of JZ's crowd and for every instance of something gelling, there were 9 or 10 would-be avant posturings (seems a reasonable, not unexpected ratio, actually). 'Locus Solus' seems a mixed bag to me, music-wise. Worth hearing, definitely, for understanding the ground from which Zorn emerged; not earth-shaking otherwise. The difference between documentary fascination and musical depth. Just my two centavos. Others will surely pillory me. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:22:47 -0400 From: cbarrett@neaq.org (Chris Barrett) Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps At 1:16 PM 10/19/98, Jeff Gretz wrote: > I guess it's just tunes like Speedfreaks and Snagglepuss that strike >most listeners as the "naked city > sound". It's funny (and I know in the past we've had simliar threads to what I'm about to write), but even though those are the tunes that most people seem to dig Naked City for, they tend to be my least favorite Naked City tunes to actually listen to. I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already hearing it once or more......... just my 2 cents more - -Chris - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:30:07 EDT From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Naked City style jumps In a message dated 10/19/98 14:25:17, you wrote: >I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually >put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already >hearing it once or more......... if we're taking a poll, count me as one who listens to torture garden all the way through rather frequently.. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:39:37 -0500 From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps At 02:22 PM 10/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually >put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already >hearing it once or more......... > I for one listen to it quite often. I've found that the first time you listen to the songs on Torture Garden you are overwhelmed by the force of them. The more you listen to them, though, the more you can hear the actual nuances of the songs. I find now that I prefer to listen to it all the way through, as one complete piece. This is why I have a hard time listening to the last third of Grand Guignol - it's missing some of the songs which makes the listening experience incomplete. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:48:53 -0400 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps At 02:22 PM 10/19/98 -0400, Chris Barrett wrote: >I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually >put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already >hearing it once or more......... I listen to the first NC album the most often, as it has a large variety of different kinds of music, from the thrash to the movie themes, etc. Next, I listen to Absinthe, mostly because I'm listening more and more to drones and electroacoustic improv (like Morphogenesis or the recent Parker EA ensemble), and Absinthe seems to fit into that category. Periodically I listen to all the NC albums in rapid succession, just to remind myself what a great body of work it is as a whole (except for Leng T'che, which is just too difficult to get through). - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers - -- Pablo Picasso - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:11:05 -0400 From: Jason Tors Subject: | edward ZEIZEL | I am trying to regain electronic contact with said person, please ignore if not applicable. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 14:56:55 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Naked City style jumps Caleb: >(except for Leng T'che, which is just too difficult to get through). Arrggh! My favorite NC piece! One of my very favorite JZ pieces, too--aims for a particular, if none too pleasant, target, nails it to the wall and sustains. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:28:16 -0400 From: Jason Tors Subject: winter winter Does Winter Winter have a web info page? I want to find out about where they came from. JT - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 13:42:02 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Hikaru Hayashi (non-Zorn content, but I'd be amazed if JZ wasn't aware of the movie and soundtracked referenced below) Rented and viewed the Japanese movie 'Onibaba' this weekend, a wonderful, brutal work from 1964 (directed by Kaneto Shindo). What there is of a score is largely confined to the opening credits, but it consists of a startling, fine free jazz piece (tenor, piano, bass and drums, I think) that would stack up well with what was going on in the US at the time. Doubly striking in that the movie's story takes place during an undefined but apparently pre-European contact era. The score is credited to one Hikaru Hayashi. Anyone know anything about this guy? A quick Alta Vista search garnered some mention of classically oriented pieces by him, but no listing of recordings or of any jazz-oriented involvement. Thanks. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:45:49 -0400 From: Jason Tors Subject: tzadik site I always find myself disappointed with the organization/functionality of this site. Since JZ does not play at the knit anymore, he should break away from knitmedia and have someone host/maintain who will do the job correctly. Am I alone in my observations about the Tzadik site? It could still be enigmatic, just more functional. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Duricko Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Chris Barrett wrote: > I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually > put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already > hearing it once or more......... Funny you should mention that, as I was just having this exact same conversation the other day with one of my friends. Yes, I would be included in the group who listens to it all the way through, but the other way I listen to it is with the shuffle as it remains to this day the only album I listen to where I will actually do that. On most other recordings I own, I would consider that heresy, but Torture Garden just screams to be meddled with. And that actually plays a large role in why I do listen to it so often. Nyah, Jeff "Kick the bagel! Kick it! KICK IT!!!" http://pages.nyu.edu/~jad5657 ICQ#3883353 - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #505 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com