From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #572 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, January 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 572 In this issue: - Chadbourne [was: NY NY] Re: Experimental Vocalists/Sound Environments Re: Experimental Vocalists/Sound Environments Re: Natural Life Cycle... just some questions + recent goodies Re: Cat O' Nine Tails Re: best of braxton John Butcher Keiji Haino on Avant Re: Keiji Haino on Avant Re: New Jazz/New Improv Re: New Jazz/New Improv Re: CCMC Sound Environments Re: Sound Environments Re: Sound Environments ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:30:21 -0500 (EST) From: William York Subject: Chadbourne [was: NY NY] > There are some such resources on the Web already, but to have something of > the quality and comprehensiveness of BYOFL both in print and on the Web > would be quite wonderful. Toss in a copy of Chadbourne's "I Hate the Man > Who Runs this Bar", and it might be perfect :-) Yes! This book is great. About $30 but definitely worth it, even if like me you are not a "real musician" as the subheading says. This book has tons of stories and lots of advice about doing gigs, dealing with record labels, releasing and selling albums, etc., but of interest to the list he often uses examples based on his own experiences, including the late 70s/early 80s in NY. But, he changes the names and switches some of the details to make things less obvious (and sometimes not less obvious: using the name "Hank High" instead of Frank Lowe). Aside from being very helpful, and often very funny, this could be the source of an in-depth research project of putting together the stories, figuring out who is who, and so on. Very highly recommended. Its put out by Hal Leonard press. In other Chadbourne (and Zorn) related news, his most recent tape/CD catalogue has a 30 minute video ($6 ppd) for sale. He says "We gotta thank a certain KCJJ [?] for ripping off a religious video dupe outfit, thus allowing us to present this unique 30 min. short featuring some of Chadbourne's great on screen moments! Guests include Walter Malli, John Zorn, Ed Cassidy, Nancy and Neve Campbell (no relation) [?, again]. I just sent off for this today so I don't know anything else about it, but I hope he has some left. The address is: Dr. Eugene Chadbourne 707 Longview St. Greensboro, NC 27403 It also lists lots of CDs, CDRs & tapes, too many to mention. William York (not paid, but just trying to help out a fellow NC'er) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:44:40 -0500 From: shep@globetrotter.net Subject: Re: Experimental Vocalists/Sound Environments Date sent: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:13:18 -0500 (EST) From: ctonelli@trentu.ca Subject: Experimental Vocalists/Sound Environments To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > I'm hoping someone could help me out by suggesting some names of > experimental vocalists to me (a la Mike Patton or Diamanda Galas) and > possibly directing me towards websites or books/articles that discuss > their techniques. > Also if anyone knows of musicians who have done experiments involving > tuning/harmonising/disharmonising objects in their sound environments, > anything from rooms in homes to factories full of machinery ect, names, > websites or any info on those artists would also be valuable to me. > Thanks, > Chris Tonelli > I have no useful information per se, except that you should check out the early works of Throbbing Gristle and Einsturzende Neubauten for sound experimentation a-go-go. If you get down to Toronto ever, BY ALL MEANS CHECK OUT CCMC AT THE MUSIC GALLERY. I left the city 5 years ago, but last time I was there they put on free shows every Tuesday that the Gallery didn't have a 'real' show booked. The group features Paul Dutton (experimental vocalist), Jack Vorvis (drums), Mike Snow (Keyboards) and John Oswald (Saxophone and possibly the greatest composer in Canada today). Again, this info is VERY old. They have at least one recording out as CCMC, and there is also a Jack Vorvis/Mike Snow CD out there somewhere. If you want to pass on any other info you receive, I'd like to hear it. Matt Shepherd p.s. I see that Ken Waxman has also mentioned CCMC in a response. Any order info on that new CD?? "Decisive Moments" is '94. Matt Shepherd shep@globetrotter.net "I had a dog named Shep. He was a good dog, too." - E. Presley - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:26:50 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Experimental Vocalists/Sound Environments In a message dated 1/13/99 2:29:56 AM, shep@globetrotter.net writes: << Any order info on that new CD?? >> It's on Victo, it's called aCCoMpliCes, it was recorded in 1996 and 1997, and it's much better than Decisive Moments. I usually don't like improv singers, but Paul Dutton rocks the house on this one. you can order it through Forced Exposure, North Country, or Verge, to name a few. Jon, who just finished hooking up his new stereo and is one happy dude. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:19:01 PST From: "Dominique Leone" Subject: Re: Natural Life Cycle... Great post, though I *hardly* see the relevance of sending to members of THIS list... On another topic (that's right), I stumbled upon Tipographica's homepage today, and was treated to lots of audio files. Can anyone recommend good sites where you can hear RA clips, or .au files of more obscure acts than CDNow or tunes.com offers? Dominique ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:46:53 +0200 From: "J.T. de Boer" Subject: just some questions + recent goodies Hi all, I have some questions regarding adresses, phone numbers etc. 1)What's the Tonic's email-adress? Events@tonic107.com doesn't seem to work 2)What is the phone/fax number of Christian Marclay? I'm interested in booking him for an electronic music and new media art festival I'm organising in june this year. 3)How can I contact Zorn? Recent goodies: Ruins-Symphonica This is the first album I have and heard from them and I think it's really mindblowing. Zappa meets Dr. Nerve meets ELP? Pachora-selftitled I bought this one last weekend and it's still in my cd-player. A really cool combination of East-European music and improv. Jim Black is amazing as ever. This man deserves wider recognition! Blast-Stringy Rugs Dutch version of Dr. Nerve, although more rock and Zappa orientated. Luc Houtkamp/Fred van Hove/Gert Jan Prins-Live Canada 1997 Houtkamp (tenor sax), van Hove (piano) and Prins (percussion/electronics) play one free improvisation of 74 minutes. Jeroen Thanks, Jeroen - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:42:40 -0000 From: Richard@rcvs.org.uk Subject: Re: Cat O' Nine Tails > There is a recording of "Cat O' Nine Tails" on "Short Stories" Just an adjunct -- saw Cat O' Nine Tails performed in London recently -- a whole lot of fun it was too, and it brought the house down. - -------------------------------------------- Visit (musings), a resource for free jazz, experimental and otherwise non-standard musics: http://come.to/musings.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:29:14 -0000 From: Richard@rcvs.org.uk Subject: Re: best of braxton > a month or so ago, there were some good responses to the query of good > anthony braxton albums. i saved a them and now that i've got some money > in my pocket, found that i've lost them. a recap, anyone? i'm > interested in the '80s and '90s (pretty well stocked with '70s stuff > and with his creative orchestra recordings, monk and standards stuff > too). at very least, i could use a recommendation on where to start > with the crispell-dresser band. Be certain to check out Leo Records' three double-CD concert recordings. They're not cheap, but Leo does bulk discounts etc and the music is absolutely astonishing. Leo are at http://www.atlas.co.uk/leorec, I think, otherwise go to my site and you'll find links there ;-). - -------------------------------------------- Visit (musings), a resource for free jazz, experimental and otherwise non-standard musics: http://come.to/musings.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:16:19 -0000 From: Richard@rcvs.org.uk Subject: John Butcher > Secondly, is this a slam against Butcher or are you just using him as an > example of someone who has to deal with this situation? I just got _Concert > Moves_ today, and was favorably impressed by use of "hackneyed and tedious > extended techniques," as well as the new (to me) things he brings to the > music. Damn right. Butcher's repertoire of techniques is pretty unique, and if people can't hear the difference between one multiphonic and another then they probably need to do some more listening. Butcher is one of the few people to have carried out quite extensive research (I mean proper, funded research) into the possibilities of extending saxophone timbre. Personally, I find his playing extremely involving, too -- I heard him performing Phil Durant's _Sowari_ at a gig about a year ago and it's still with me. <...snip...> > There's a sense in which free improv can't stagnate, because it was stagnant > from the beginning--that is, the idea of instrumentalists "conversing" with > each other without preconceived notions of how the music should "go" was > the basis then and still is now. What else can you do with this music? In > that sense, this music is rigid as all hell--at least in composed music you > can throw in some improv for kicks, but if you put a composed section into > a free improv, it's not free improv anymore. > > These aren't necessarily well thought out ideas. On the contrary, there are few people who are prepared to recognise that free improv is an idiom or genre just like any other. Especially the musicians, some of whom like to perpetuate this mystique about direct communication, spontaneous originality, a sort of benign anarchism etc etc. - -------------------------------------------- Visit (musings), a resource for free jazz, experimental and otherwise non-standard musics: http://come.to/musings.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:08:16 +0100 From: Stefan Verstraeten Subject: Keiji Haino on Avant Hi, Just listening to the new album by haino, cohen and baron on avant, called 'an unclear trial: more than this'. For those who doubt that haino couldn't play: get this album to prove you were wrong. Haino plays here acoustic guitars, so no effects, no noise. What kind of a guitarplayer is he really. As mentioned in intervieuws, he likes the blues, and you can hear it (especially track 5). The album breathes a blusey feeling, very relaxed, very smooth. This album shows two things: Actually Haino CAN play, but when he plays unplugged, this album shows that he his skills are not that good (which is not the case by elliot sharp, look at terraplane blues). The album is really worth its money, pity however that this album proves that keiji haino REALLY needs his effect pedals to become the best noise player. However, this is just my opinion, looking forward to hear other opinions. - -- Stefan Verstraeten - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Martens Subject: Re: Keiji Haino on Avant - ---Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > Hi, > > Just listening to the new album by haino, cohen and baron on avant, > called 'an unclear trial: more than this'. > > For those who doubt that haino couldn't play: get this album to prove > you were wrong. > > Haino plays here acoustic guitars, so no effects, no noise. > > What kind of a guitarplayer is he really. As mentioned in intervieuws, > he likes the blues, and you can hear it (especially track 5). The album > breathes a blusey feeling, very relaxed, very smooth. > > This album shows two things: Actually Haino CAN play, but when he plays > unplugged, this album shows that he his skills are not that good (which > is not the case by elliot sharp, look at terraplane blues). > > The album is really worth its money, pity however that this album proves > that keiji haino REALLY needs his effect pedals to become the best noise > player. > Haven't heard the Haino/Baron/Cohen yet, but if you care, another good place to go for proof of Haino's playing ability is the two CDs of duets w/ Loren Mazzacane Connors (on Persona non grata and Menlo Park), both of which are clearly Connors' show but also feature some pretty good playing on Haino's part, particularly on Vol. 2 (make sure I have this right: Connors is the one w/ all the reverb, Haino's the more spiky, distorted one.) == Eric Martens "When you said that I wasn't worth talking to, I had to take your word on that." -- Liz Phair _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:53:18 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: New Jazz/New Improv I'm not too sure that Brian writing off jazz because it lacks young Black innovators is quite correct since he links it to having jazz as ambient music in the home. Very few of the people who are feverish jazz/improv fans group of with that kind of music in their homes. But all of us through trial and error and experimentation began by our early teens, finding music that really appealed to us, which for the majority of people here was some form of jazz. We've stuck with it 'lo these many years (about 36 in my case) because we still find the "the new" in it, a lot more than in other places. That said it seems likely that the next major improvisor(s) [if we must believe in the "great person" theory] will probably arise from the same sort of "ambient" than we did. Starting with the second generation of improvisors out of New Orleans, musicians were in the main middle-class (no they weren't Rockerfellers, Charlie Barnett and John Hammond to the contrary), but they weren't homeless people either. Innovators as disparate as Fletcher Henderson and Marion Brown came out of the middle class and many had to "learn" jazz and improv as much as Barney Wilen and Evan Parker (to pick two Europeans) had to learn it as well. I guess the purpose of this rap, is that we shouldn't write jazz/improv off too quickly. It seems to me that there are more and more musicians turning towards this form compared to 10, 20 or 25 years ago and the cumulative effect of it may create more heart-stopping music. Agreed that Matt Shipp at 23 wasn't Braxton, but Braxton at six wasn't Mozart. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: New Jazz/New Improv On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Ken Waxman wrote: > I guess the purpose of this rap, is that we shouldn't write jazz/improv > off too quickly. It seems to me that there are more and more musicians > turning towards this form compared to 10, 20 or 25 years ago and the > cumulative effect of it may create more heart-stopping music. Agreed that > Matt Shipp at 23 wasn't Braxton, but Braxton at six wasn't Mozart. also, braxton at age 23 was virtually ignored. that's why those aacm guys went over to france. hindsight is 20/20 and in 20 years folks may be emailing each other about how there aren't any musicians around anymore like matthew shipp. also keep in mind that coltrane was in his thirties before he really hit his stride. regarding the euro-scene: the best of that music (bailey, parker, brotzmann) tried/tries to explore/create a new tradition. bailey said that he knew he could never be charlie christian, so he had to try to be derek bailey. i think that wherever you find this kind of thinking, you will also find innovation. music stagnates when musicians and fans become too nostalgic. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:11:52 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: CCMC Yes the CCMC are still playing every Tuesday night at the Music Gallery in Toornto. Ususally *sans* drummer, though. They're even part of an experimental -improv mini-festival of local players for the next couple of weeks. The Gallery has a presence at the Net at: http://www.interlog.com/~musicgal As for ordering CCMC's new CD, with all the CCs I'm not too sure who asked. If it's the person at Trent, check with Verge Distributors in Peterborough or direct from Victo records. Both are on the Web --Verge at: http://www.ptbo.igs.net/~verge Victo's URL keeps changing, so do a search for "Victo records". Americans can order from there too, or probably through Cadence/North Country Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:20:28 +0100 From: "Felix" Subject: Sound Environments Huh, this may sound a little silly... I saw a guy play an instrument in a show once, that was a box with an antenna that gave this weird feedback sound when his hands were close to the antenna. He controlled the sound by getting his hands closer or farther from the antenna. Then I saw a "I M Weasel" cartoon and this babboon was using the same instrument (same sound) and they called it, I think, theramine. Could anyone familiar with such device give any info on that? Thanks Felix - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:36:55 EST From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Sound Environments i have actually played with a kind of cheap ass theramin, but it was cool nonetheless. moving up and down in relation to the antenna changes the pitch and closer and further away changes volume. the woman who was the master at this, well, her name excapes me (c'mon guys. jump in with enthusiasm!) you can also see jimmy page use one in the movie the song remains the same. its how he emulated "vietnam sounds" or whatever the hell he was doing in the middle section of "whole lotta love." - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:59:43 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Girellini Subject: Re: Sound Environments -> i have actually played with a kind of cheap ass theramin, but it was cool -> nonetheless. moving up and down in relation to the antenna changes the pitch -> and closer and further away changes volume. the woman who was the master at -> this, well, her name excapes me (c'mon guys. jump in with enthusiasm!) you can -> also see jimmy page use one in the movie the song remains the same. its how he -> emulated "vietnam sounds" or whatever the hell he was doing in the middle -> section of "whole lotta love." I believe you are referring to Clara Rockmore. Don't forget the beach boys' used it on good vibrations (and some other tracks as well), one of the more well known songs with a theremin. A little more about it: It was invented in the 10's or 20's by Leon Theremin. Its sole controls were two antennas. The player's hands proximity to one controls the pitch and the other the volume. More recent models of the instrument tend to have knobs that also let you control the baseline pitch, volume, and waveform shape (the original only output a sine wave). There's a bunch of good theremin pages on the web if you want to know more about them (why it works, how to build one, where it's used...). And I agree, they are fun to play! Dan - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #572 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. 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