From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #616 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, March 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 616 In this issue: - CT/Dewey/Elvin Wow 2 Re: Wow 2 Avant links CT/Dewey/Elvin confirmed; ghosts in the CD changer Mack Goldsbury [Re: Vandermark] Re: Recent Goodies Re: Momentum Space? Re: Caifanes/Ribot Re: Caifanes/Ribot The solution to my Tony Oxley mystery Re: Wow 2 Supersilent 1-3 Re: Avant links "The Improvisation Meeting in Chicago" CD Re: Dewey Redman Re: COBRA Momentum Space--a review Roscoe Mitchell "Nine to Get Ready" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:16:53 -0800 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: CT/Dewey/Elvin I swear I saw an ad for this album -- talk about double takes -- in Downbeat. I'll check when I get home tonight and post the details if somebody doesn't beat me to it. Martin np. Latin Playboys -- Dose - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 22:28:23 -0500 From: Push Subject: Wow 2 I've got quite a few Tzadik and Avant discs and all are notable for their generally superior quality in packaging and sound. However, one of my favorites, Boredoms' Wow 2 on Avant, sounds like it was recorded through a mud filter; this is all the more baffling considering that Zorn was actually at the helm at these sessions. My question: Do all copies sound like this, or did I get a bad pressing or something? I know Boredoms often indulge in deliberate lofi recording tech, but none of their other full length albums sound this murky (though Super Roots 3 comes close). thanks in advance, - -push - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:38:55 -0600 From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: Wow 2 At 10:28 PM 3/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >My question: Do all copies sound like this, or did I get a bad pressing >or something? I know Boredoms often indulge in deliberate lofi >recording tech, but none of their other full length albums sound this >murky (though Super Roots 3 comes close). > Actually, my copy sounds rather good. I think you either have a bad pressing or what you refer to as muddy production is exactly what they were going for. Considering the personnel that were involved in the production and engineering of the album, I can't imagine they would accidentally make something sound muddy. Compared to some of their older albums (and other albums from around the same time) it's remarkably clear sounding. The distortion and haze seems intentional. Or it could be that my eardrums are fried enough that I can't tell anymore. A steady course of Fushitsusha can do that to you. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:46:34 EST From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Avant links kenny g's avant links - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:02:43 -0800 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: CT/Dewey/Elvin confirmed; ghosts in the CD changer Page 15 of the April 1999 Downbeat Ad is titled: Dance of the Titans DR, CT, EJ Momentum Space/Verve (!) "A powerful program of trios, duets and solos, this 1998 studio session beautifully documents the landmark collaboration between these three giants of improvised music." www.verveinteractive.com Meanwhile ... my CD changer at home, when set on random, will play each cut on each of the five discs, once before repeating any cut. But my JVC car changer is closer to a true random play -- and it gets into grooves (and ruts) where it likes two or three of the six CDs more than the others, and even likes certain cuts better than others. I had the thing fully loaded today yet in an hour and a half on the road, heard cut five (Inspiration of Silence) from Horace Tapscott's aiee! The Phantom three times! I still don't think it's one of the strongest cuts, but my JVC thinks otherwise. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:03:38 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Mack Goldsbury [Re: Vandermark] John Howard wrote: > Mack Goldsbury (where the hell is he?) I don't think I'd come across Goldsbury's name since Berne's "Songs and Rituals in Real Time." But there's a new disc on the VKJK label pairing him with pipe organist Andreas Bottcher, "Sunday's Symphonies," that is fairly positively reviewed in the March issue of Cadence, pg. 131. (The label does not appear to be carried be North Country, however, leading to the question of ready availability...) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - nothing... starting to save up my pennies for "Sol Niger Within," which I saw at Lethal last weekend... thanks, Dgasque... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:23:32 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Recent Goodies David Keffer wrote: > Dock Boggs - "Complete Early Recordings" - (Revenant, 1997) - cd This is currently out of print and it sometimes takes Revenant a while to get things back into print (especially since right now all of their resources are plugged into the expensive upcoming Beefheart box), so if anyone's interested in the Dock Boggs, grab it soon. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Oh my dear Lord, it's none other than TONY OXLEY on the "BET on Jazz" channel!!! Wonder if that means the soprano player is John Surman? The flugelhornist has to be Kenny Wheeler... that would make the most sense. Don't recognize the pianist or bassist, but this is very mainstream music. Anyway, it's kinda neat watching Tony bash away Elvin Jones style on his kooky little kit. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:29:03 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Momentum Space? brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > Just saw a reference to a disc with this title by a trio consisting of > Dewey Redman, Cecil Taylor and Elvin Jones (!!!!). Is this correct? > Anyone else heard of it? Yes, and yes. As Ken Waxman pointed out, there was a mention of this project on booking agent Joel Chriss's website as a potential act to be booked this summer, and I had to phone immediately for more details when I saw this about two weeks ago. (The tour's NOT happening, but Joel still hopes to possibly send the Taylor/Jones duo out to some festivals... still, don't hold your breath). The session was conceived and produced by John Snyder, maestro of A&M Horizon, A&M Jazz Modern Masters, and other notable and extremely short-lived avant-garde series on American major labels. The record was made for the French Gitanes label, a branch of once-Polygram/now-Universal. I'd been told by Joel that it was unlikely to be released in the U.S. and thought that just had to be wrong. And lo and behold, not only was there an ad in Down Beat as mentioned here by Martin Wisckol, but on another mailing list I'm on, WNUR's Seth Tisue asked if anyone had heard the new Taylor/Redman/Jones disc "issued today" by Verve. Guess I'll be going shopping again tomorrow... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - still watching that Kenny Wheeler thing with Tony Oxley on "BET on Jazz," much to my continued disbelief... not disbelief that I'm watching, of course, but disbelief that Tony's on my TV and it's not "Burning Poles"... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:52:25 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Caifanes/Ribot hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > Steve Smith wrote: > > >If this band sang in English, it most likely would have enjoyed > >worldwide video hits, as their impassioned '80s style hard-edged yet > > I'm not quite sure about this, nevertheless I ask myself why any group > would sing their lyrics in English instead people try to learn the > language that group sings. Hugo, your points are well taken, but while it's one thing to expect a single listener or a small group of enthusiasts to consider learning a foreign language to better enjoy a performance or recording in that language (though Lord knows I'm way too lazy and would just as soon follow a libretto), it's quite something else to expect the lazy American masses to do so. Thus, my point was that if Caifanes had *chosen* to sing in English, certainly the common tongue in the U.S. and increasingly a worldwide language, they would have had Big Hits on MTV and the like because they played Cool Songs that were not Overtly World Music and also they Looked Really Cute (especially the singer), and many more thousands of people would likely have flocked to them if given an easy way to do so. But those incentives were not enough for the band to give up its fierce dedication to its native tongue and culture, and that I actually consider to be quite admirable. I suppose they were quite happy with the many thousands of fans they enjoyed in the Spanish speaking world (including in the U.S.A.), and slackers like me were just along for the ride and the tunes. But hey, it doesn't bother me that I don't know what Nusrat or the Ruins are singing, either, and my Schubert lieder sets all come with translations... > But don't worry Steve; this is not nothing personal, naturally. Naturally. No offense taken, and besides, as I've already admitted, I *am* lazy. I won't speak for my countrymen, however... my girlfriend speaks three or four languages, but she's way smarter and more industrious than me in *most* ways. Speaking of Ribot turning up in odd places, has anyone yet heard the new David Sylvian album? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Tony Oxley making like Art Blakey on his wacky mutant drum kit... "BET on Jazz," where good things come to those who surf... - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:59:29 -0800 (PST) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Caifanes/Ribot On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Steve Smith wrote: > and besides, as I've already admitted, I *am* > lazy. I won't speak for my countrymen, however... my girlfriend speaks > three or four languages, but she's way smarter and more industrious than me > in *most* ways. the mind boggles at such a thought! hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:01:22 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: The solution to my Tony Oxley mystery If you haven't been following the little NP messages at the end of my posts tonight, you can delete this now. For those who were curious, the band I'd been watching tonight on "BET on Jazz," taped "Live at the Brewhouse," was: pianist Gordon Beck, trumpeter/flugelhornist Kenny Wheeler, saxophonist/flutist Stan Sultzman, bassist Dieter Ilg and (yes!) percussionist Tony Oxley. I can sleep better now. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - nothing... why spoil what I just heard? :-) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:06:20 PST From: "Douglas Clarke" Subject: Re: Wow 2 >From: Push >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Wow 2 >I've got quite a few Tzadik and Avant discs and all are notable for >their generally superior quality in packaging and sound. However, one >of my favorites, Boredoms' Wow 2 on Avant, sounds like it was recorded >through a mud filter; this is all the more baffling considering that >Zorn was actually at the helm at these sessions. > >My question: Do all copies sound like this, or did I get a bad pressing >or something? I know Boredoms often indulge in deliberate lofi >recording tech, but none of their other full length albums sound this >murky (though Super Roots 3 comes close). Well, mine sounds pretty unusual as well, but that's what makes it so amazing! I think Zorn really found the best way to deliver the punch that the boredoms are capable of on this album. - -Doug Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 03:38:52 -0800 From: Gene Natalia Subject: Supersilent 1-3 Someone posted something about Supersilent's newest, 4-6, so I figured I'd finally get around to picking up that 1-3 I've had my eye on. I'd heard about them before, and I really like the remix project that Deathprod shared with Biosphere of Arne Nordheim's Electric, so I shelled out my $20.99 and took the 3cd's home and now I'm all happy. Imagine Sun Ra in at his noisiest, with plenty of electronics thrown in, and maybe that describes it inadequately, but at least somewhat. Parts of it remind me a lot of Radian, but whereas Radian was kind of funky, rockish and dubbish, Supersilent stems from improv-jazz. I guess parts of it remind me of some of Mr. Bungle's noisier electronics on Disco Volante as well. In fact, if someone told me these were 3 discs of members of Bungle improvising, I would nearly fall for it. In any case, I just wanted to let the person who mentioned the 4-6 know that 1-3 is also quite good. -Ethan - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:30:33 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Avant links At 10:46 PM 3/9/99 EST, Nvinokur@aol.com wrote: > kenny g's avant links Amazing, there's actually some very interesting stuff here. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers - -- Pablo Picasso - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:36:53 +0800 From: Jan-wen Lu Subject: "The Improvisation Meeting in Chicago" CD Hi, Anyone know where I can get the "The Improvisation Meeting in Chicago" CD(Radio Off Duty, LFQR 779 CD) from online distributor? It features a lot of great players such as Jim O'Rourke, Taku Sugimoto, David Grubbs, Fred Lonberg-Holm, Kevin Drumm, etc. Also, how to order the new Zeena Parkins CD? Jan-wen Lu - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:04:23 GMT0BST From: DR S WILKIE Subject: Re: Dewey Redman When I saw Dewey Redman in the mid-to-late 80s, he seemed interested in starting "in" and then going "way way out" (this, over a concert, rather than in the course of each and every tune). This struck me as a thoroughly good strategy (one COULD take it to be a compromise between setting the agenda and giving the audience what they want), for it seemed as though he was able to take all the audience all the way out with him. Incidentally, did anyone pick up the Impulse reissue of Ear Of The Behearer? I was impressed by their willingness to include, as bonus material, HALF of his subsequent album, Coincide. Then again, that may be down to my view that they picked the RIGHT half and dispensed with the drivelly zither playing and (as if I haven't stuck my neck out enough) one or two half-baked improvs. Sean Wilkie NP (ie not playing) "Somnaficient" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:26:00 -0500 From: Peter Risser Subject: Re: COBRA << Joe Zitt said: I'm intrigued by the existence of a Cobra Ensemble out there. How large is the group? Do you get together regularly, or only for occasional events? Do you do other material? >> I'm curious too, since I live here and never heard of it before. Do they all have a schedule? I understand they are playing this Friday, but I can't make it. Curiouser and Curiouser, Peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 99 09:41:20 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Momentum Space--a review Picked this up last night, got home too late to give it a spin, so this is based on a single, low-volume listen on the office boombox, a less than adequate sound system. With those caveats: I'll get my major peeve out of the way first. I find it a little annoying that you have a, presumably, one-time grouping of three talents like this and instead of an hour of trio playing you get half that, the rest devoted to solo and duo tracks. Given that... 1) 'Nine' (Redman) is a very fine trio performance that sounded, to me, much in line with the Candid 1960 sessions that produced the 'Air' release. Redman, in fact, sounds uncannily like Shepp on those dates. It's a beautiful, roiling piece that boded well for the remainder of the disc. 2) 'Bekai' (Jones) a 4-minute drum solo with a processional kind of feel. Not bad, but not what I was looking for. 3) 'Spoonin'' (Redman) (Wasn't this recorded on one of Dewey's records?) A tenor/drums duet with Redman in fine form, getting into his breathy style towards the end. Not earth-shaking, but nice. 4) 'Life As' (Taylor) A superb 8 1/2 minute Taylor solo, in his subdued mode. Gorgeous playing, reminding me of the more 'romantic' moments of 'Silent Tongues'. 5) 'It' (Taylor) A piano/drums duet. Taylor is fine, Jones kind of just follows along; not a lot of exciting interplay. 6) 'Is' (Taylor) A 20 minute trio piece, episodic in character, solos and duos formed along the way. Redman plays quite romantically here and the piece ends with another beautiful, quiet Taylor solo. 7) 'Dew' (Redman) a 49 second Redman solo, basically a throway add-on; strange way to end the record. Overall, well worth owning, if not as rich as one might have hoped. The opening trio is probably as fine as any other trio of like instrumentalists could record today and Cecil's playing throughout, especially on that solo track is as great as we've come to expect. While not nearly as disappointing as his collaboration with the Art Ensemble a few years back, it still suffers from an similar odd production approach, a certain tentativeness in programming. Would've liked to have had simply a full trio set on the level of the first cut, but.... Brian Olewnick PS: Due to monetary restrictions (potential angry wifely stares), I passed on the new Mitchell ECM release; anyone heard this yet? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:22:16 -0500 (EST) From: eric ong Subject: Roscoe Mitchell "Nine to Get Ready" Hello, The new Roscoe Mitchell got realeased stateside yesterday, and I managed to pick myself up a copy. Someone on the list mentioned that it had been receiving rave reviews, so my expectations were rather high. Overall, I'm quite happy with most of the tracks. Some are very reminiscent of AEC's work on ECM (no surprise) and others have a swarming free improv feel, evryone circular breathing like there's no tomorrow. "Leola", the opener, has the introspective sadness of Coltrane's "Alabama", and is truly a stunner (albeit in the ECM variety). The thick horn section gives the whole record a bigger, richer sound, and when the whole band starts jamming together your ear can wander among the different levels. Characteristically, most of the horns are set slightly out of tune. So rest assured, some very good tunes in the spirit of collectivism that animated the AEC. eric. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #616 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com