From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #772 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, October 11 1999 Volume 02 : Number 772 In this issue: - That NY Times verbiage (& Jewel) Re: Free Flutists? Free Flutists? Re: That NY Times verbiage (& Jewel) Re: Charlemagne Palestine Re: noise etc. Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #771 Can anyone tell me what Prelapse's album is like? Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland Delusion on disc Re: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #766 Great Sax Session [none] [none] [none] re: Naked City re-runs Re: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland Re: Free Flutists? milt jackson rip Re: month'o'mazzacane, night 6 Feldman SIMILARITIES ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:55:37 +0100 From: parry@macconnect.com Subject: That NY Times verbiage (& Jewel) I suppose the author of that piece didn't realize that the sniping tone undermined any points he was trying to make. The David Byrne essay, on the other hand, was a rather refreshing change from the usual Times music trend story. As much as I enjoy reading other sections of the Times, I get very little out of its music coverage. Those trend/theme pieces are almost always pompous, ponderous and pontifical, not to mention about 20 inches longer than they need to be. Maybe the paper doesn't really believe music is a worthy topic in and of itself, and that's why even concert reviews have to be larded with lengthy discussions of the artists' supposed socio-cultural significance. Sometimes it's difficult to tell whether the writer enjoyed a concert or not, since description of the event is secondary to some clever semiotic thesis. At the same time, the Times appears to be so afraid of appearing elitist that it devotes enormous amounts of space to fawning analyses of ephemeral pop effusions by the likes of Alanis Morissette. But at least they didn't splash Ricky Martin all over the front page for winning an MTV award, as did the fine "news"paper I work for. Meanwhile, all of this is relatively low on my scale of outrage compared to the mortifying spectacle of Merle Haggard dueting with Jewel on the Country Music Association awards. I think, or at any rate, I'd like to think, his manager has to have drugged him. Parry Gettelman briefly un-lurking - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:25:47 GMT From: Oger Subject: Re: Free Flutists? > Possibly a silly question, but, aside from the arguable example of > Robert Dick, are there any free players around who stick exclusively > to the flute? Not someone like Braxton who sometimes plays flute and > sometimes plays free, but...the Derek Bailey of the flute. > > Brian Olewnick In France, we have a very good flautist (thanks Jon, you learn me the correct spelling :-) : Jerome Bourdellon. He played and made a very good CD with Joe Mac Phee. He played with Jim Denley and Machine for making sense too. Jacques Oger - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:11:57 EDT From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Free Flutists? Maybe David Toop? - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:08:47 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: That NY Times verbiage (& Jewel) BTW, Byrne to some extent rehashes points made well by Jody Diamond in her article 'There is no "they" there', available online at http://www.lib.virginia.edu/reserve/cscan/gaunt/diamond.there.pdf - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:40:26 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Charlemagne Palestine In a message dated 10/6/99 5:55:07 PM, tpratt9@yahoo.com writes: << Lastly, does anyone know anything about the two Palestine albums on Barooni (Barooni 14 & 19) listed in the selective discography of the liner notes? I'm assuming they're long out-of-print LPs. Am I right? >> nope, they're both CDs. Four Manifestations On Six Elements is Barooni 14 and Godbear is Barooni 19. not sure if they're in print or not. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 16:22:14 -0400 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: noise etc. At 03:18 AM 10/9/99 -0400, Daniel L Brown wrote: > >2) There's very little room for interplay even when other >musicians/performers are invited on board. The collaboration with Christopher Heeman on Streamline, Sleeper on the Edge of the Abyss, is a very pleasant exception to this general rule. Heeman seems to have had the final say (i.e., he remixed Merzbow), but this album is very atmospheric and almost ambient in nature. Merzbow listeners will certainly find some of the original herein, but to a much greater extent it's Heeman's product. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more than one way to conquer a country. - -- Raymond Chandler - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 20:06:28 EDT From: Nervenet@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #771 Someone wrote: <<> wondering is, can anyone out there put their noise aesthetic into words. i > can't, and i'm curious.>> Like a couple other respondants here, I don't much listen to noise bands anymore. I got into the genre, such as it is, before it had crystallized into the scene that it is now. It was somewhere in the late 80's, but most of the music that I sought out was of late 70's or early 80's vintage - No Wave stuff mostly, plus Zorn, Frith, and Laswell projects of varying couth, and The Residents and Snakefinger (not noise bands, I know, but certainly cut from the same cloth) and Neubauten leading the way into that mess. Reading Lester Bangs' stuff (now he has a great definition of his impulse to enjoy noise, can't find my book or I'd quote it for you) also provided an impetus to seek out more - Miles's Rated X and Ornette Coleman and Coltrane; John Cage, Xenakis and Stockhausen. When I check out Boredoms offshoots and some pieces on Avant, I just think "well, that sounds cool." Although the sonic specifics may be different, the impulse seems the same as some of the above artists - the Boredoms don't tell me anything that DNA didn't - and Arto went on to make even better music IMO (although I grant that the Boredoms are responsible for two of the best concerts I've ever seen). I have friends who are heavily into the noise thing who are jealous that I've seen Zorn and play me newer stuff they think I'll dig along those lines and again, it all sounds good, but strangely familiar. i think that my detachment goes more along the lines of this argument: <> than the three that Daniel brown laid out: Not enough variety from album to album, although this can be a curse as well; not enough active interplay with musicians - this doesn't bother me; and lack of imagination - I don't pay enough attention to notice. I'd rather hear Cecil Taylor, or Ayler, or Coltrane, or Zorn. It just seems to me like the music is subtler and more complex than a lot of what friends loan me to check out lately. And Ascension is pretty damn loud, as is Miles's Rated X, but both are deadly serious - standing in contrast to this statement (with which i don't fully agree): <>. Anyway, i don't come to this discussion with fully-formed arguments. Simply a feeling that noise bands that I hear are acting off the same impulses that drove noisy bands yesterday. (Early) Red Crayola, Mars, Merzbow, the guy(s?) who wrote Maldoror - they all come from a similar position to my ears. I shared that position once and feel like I'm not in tune with it anymore. But I'm still willing to try to hear music in this vein that will tell me something new.... Patrick Brown Nervenet@aol.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 19:42:51 -0600 From: nickmc@home.com Subject: Can anyone tell me what Prelapse's album is like? I know some have said naked city influenced, but I would like to know a little more if I could, thanks alot Nick McCormick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:02:35 +0200 From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland For those of you who already have recordings from this year edition of WSJD: I wrote down all titles of the tunes performed by Masada String Trio, Bar Kokhba and Masada and uploaded them to http://www.emd.pl/emd/en4/artists/m/masada/live/19990625.htm Just one song played by Bar Kokhba that evening sounds new to me, it was the only one introduced by Zorn, the title is "Kol Nidre" (or whatever the spelling is) - is it published anywhere? Or is it really new? Listening to these tunes I noticed that few notes from "Katzatz" sound like faster version of "Lakum" - these are probably the most similar Masada tunes. One more question: does Zorn speak a lot during live performances? While he was introducing Bar Kokhba band he said "The handsome Marc Ribot!... He should change his clothes often though!" (Ribot played one evening before and wore the same suit :-) __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno AT emd.pl] www.emd.pl - Discography of Bill Frisell - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:18:10 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Delusion on disc Just a note to let listers know that Harry Partch's masterwork, 'Delusion of the Fury' is finally available on disc (on Innova, as 'Enclosure 6'). Perhaps many have come to know Partch's music only over the last decade and have been unable to hear this work, issued on Columbia in 1972. If so, run, do not walk, to pick this up. IMHO, one of the single greatest works of the century. The remastering is excellent with somewhat clearer sound, greater stereo separation and, at least with regards to my stereo, the emergence of a handful of instrumental parts I was unable to hear previously. There's also a fine essay by Danlee Mitchell and intriguing notes by Partch. My only complaint is that the bonus album of Partch demonstrating and discussing his instruments (among other things) was not included here (though his prologue and epilogue, beautiful statements of aesthetic philosophy, are printed on the inside back cover--still, one does miss Partch's stentorian voice). A deep, beautiful, endlessly inventive work of art. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:38:09 EDT From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland Kol Nidre is a based on cantorial melodies from the Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah service written around the time of the first Temple over 2000 years ago. It is probably in the public domain by now. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:20:02 EDT From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #766 As someone who's listened to each Naked City album since its release, the debut and Radio are by far the most expendable to me. Grand Guignol, Heretic, and Absinthe are masterpieces. Absinthe is the one that has held up best over time for me, actually; I'd say it's by far the darkest. Don't forget Leng T'Che, either. I think the hardcore pieces on GG that are the repeats from Torture Garden are better placed on GG; they're much more dark and menacing (obviously) I'm sure this has been oft-tread, but I'm relatively new to the list and I wanted to get in my cent. matt mitchell - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:22:08 EDT From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Great Sax Session I was wondering what people thought of zorn's playing on this disk. He is unquestionably the most recognizable voice on this album and I think he's an interesting addition to the more straight ahead voices on the album but as he also sounds like a fish out of water due to the lack of interplay between the rhythm section (particularly the drums). Any thoughts? - - ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 01:25:48 -0400 From: Taylor McLaren Subject: re: Naked City re-runs MEEP! matt mitchell wrote: >I think the hardcore pieces on GG that are the >repeats from Torture Garden are better placed on GG... [HACK!] Only having heard a couple (or four, I suppose) of Naked City albums to date, I can't say that I'm even terribly sure that there's a pattern to spot in the first place, but *is* there some reason for the repetition of tracks from NC album to NC album? Having picked up the Black Box set before anything else, I was more than a tad disappointed to find out just how much of the Nonesuch debut disc was material that I had heard before... and now it looks as though I'm in for exactly the same treat if I ever decide to pick up _Grand Guignol_. What gives? Is there some profound conceptual logic behind this repetition, or are these duplicate tracks just label-to-label padding? - -me (apologies if this is FAQ material) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:18:42 +0200 From: patrice schneider Subject: Re: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland Artur Nowak wrote: > > Just one song played by Bar Kokhba that evening sounds new to me, it was the > only one introduced by Zorn, the title is "Kol Nidre" (or whatever the > spelling is) - is it published anywhere? Or is it really new? > hi artur, "kol nidre" is the last piece on john zorn's tzadik release "the string quartets". patRice btw: i'll contact you again soon about the "emergency" live recording from switzerland! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:29:38 CEST From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Free Flutists? > > Possibly a silly question, but, aside from the arguable example of > > Robert Dick, are there any free players around who stick >exclusively > > to the flute? Not someone like Braxton who sometimes plays flute >and > > sometimes plays free, but...the Derek Bailey of the flute. > > > > Brian Olewnick > >In France, we have a very good flautist (thanks Jon, you learn me the >correct spelling :-) : Jerome Bourdellon. >He played and made a very good CD with Joe Mac Phee. > >He played with Jim Denley and Machine for making sense too. > >Jacques Oger > > Jim Denley is a very interesting flautist with a unique style too !! At the end of October he is on tour with the quintet LINES (Martin Blume, Phil Wachsman and others). Andreas Dietz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:35:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: milt jackson rip pardon if this is postmature - i'm on digest. subject line says it all. there's an article on the cnn website: http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/11/obit.jackson.ap/index.html whit - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:48:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: month'o'mazzacane, night 6 - --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > but I was there on Saturday to > see Haunted House for > the second time in the festival While Jon was busy seeing Haunted House for the millionth time, I was up at Cooper Union listening to the Flux String Quartet perform all six hours of Morton Feldman's "String Quartet No. 2". Since there are no available recordings of the piece, I was not familiar with the music beforehand. But what I found was that the musical material and arrangements were very similar to "String Quartet (No. 1)" but that it had more of a block/cell structure like "Patterns In A Chromatic Field". Structurally, this piece is completely mindblowing - Feldman is an architect. Throughout the six hours, separate sections were stated and then reappeared later in a different form and context. Yet there was always new material being presented, so it was as if it were always propelling forward but always remembering what had happened before. Everything was *so* meticulous, detailed and delicate... I can't really grasp this thing yet. The piece is a living, breathing whale. There was a section about an hour long somewhere in the middle that moved me more than any music I can remember. If you ever get a chance to see this thing, don't be scared off by its length. It's an amazing bit of music. -Tom Pratt listening to: Folk Music of Nepal (World Music Library) ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:49:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Pratt Subject: Feldman - --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > but I was there on Saturday to > see Haunted House for > the second time in the festival While Jon was busy seeing Haunted House for the millionth time, I was up at Cooper Union listening to the Flux String Quartet perform all six hours of Morton Feldman's "String Quartet No. 2". Since there are no available recordings of the piece, I was not familiar with the music beforehand. But what I found was that the musical material and arrangements were very similar to "String Quartet (No. 1)" but that it had more of a block/cell structure like "Patterns In A Chromatic Field". Structurally, this piece is completely mindblowing - Feldman is an architect. Throughout the six hours, separate sections were stated and then reappeared later in a different form and context. Yet there was always new material being presented, so it was as if it were always propelling forward but always remembering what had happened before. Everything was *so* meticulous, detailed and delicate... I can't really grasp this thing yet. The piece is a living, breathing whale. There was a section about an hour long somewhere in the middle that moved me more than any music I can remember. If you ever get a chance to see this thing, don't be scared off by its length. It's an amazing bit of music. -Tom Pratt listening to: Folk Music of Nepal (World Music Library) ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:07:55 EDT From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: SIMILARITIES Fleur du Mal and track on Redbird do sound a like, though I think that's due to the common use of extremely soft and extremely low freuqncies on both track. I think its interesting how the same effect is achieved by different means (assuming the Absinthe track is electronic, which it does sound like to me) As for the Artemisia Absinthium sample, do you mean the 'buzzing' sound? I haven't listened to Nani Nani in a long time; I'll have to check that out. matt mitchell - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #772 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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