From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #839 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, January 21 2000 Volume 02 : Number 839 In this issue: - Re: Ascension (was Re: Douglas's THOUGHTS ABOUT MAHFOUZ) Entering the Industry (was Re: Douglas's Charms) Re: Jean-Francois Pauvros + Keiji Haino dave d & indie cool Re: dave d & indie cool Tim Berne - "Afternoon Tea" Re: Tim Berne - Quicksand Stevie Wishart? Re: dave d & indie cool lovin' some lovens (and wittwer) PROMO: John Zorn, editor of Arcana: Musicians on Music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:13:28 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Ascension (was Re: Douglas's THOUGHTS ABOUT MAHFOUZ) In a message dated 1/20/00 11:21:48 PM, owheeler@javanet.com writes: << Is this still available? What label, etc.? >> it's also on Jaworzyn's label, Shock. you also should keep your eyes peeled for Descension-Live, March 1995 (Shock), which augments the duo's full-out assault with Simon Fell on bass and Charles Wharf on alto & soprano saxophones and bass clarinet. I'm pretty sure that Broadcast was limited to 500 copies, and is long out of print, although Other Music (www.othermusic.com), lists it in their online database. I'm not sure of the status of the Descension release, or of Shock in general. I know they haven't had any new releases for years. you could try contacting the label directly at: Shock 56 Beresford Road Chingford, London E4 6EF Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 05:52:33 GMT From: "Scott Handley" Subject: Entering the Industry (was Re: Douglas's Charms) >From: Steve Smith >Thanks for the timely reminder that I sometimes take this stuff (and >myself) a >wee bit too seriously. Geez, given my defensiveness, one would be led to >believe that perhaps I still have an unresolved personal issue or two >regarding >joining the majors... Actually, to the contrary, Steve, your e.mail---minus a bit of the contextual stuff---serves as manifesto for optimism, and not the optimism of the idealist naif, but of the critic of cynical reason, or, better, the critic of Cynical Resignation. Cynicism and low-fi mentality are easy to come by and easier to convert into _ressentiment_ (sp?) and hip Filthy Couch rhetoric. Your willingness to enter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:49:20 +0100 (CET) From: Oger Subject: Re: Jean-Francois Pauvros + Keiji Haino Yes, It is a CD on french label : Shambala. Title is : Y . (recorded by Jean-Marc Foussat) Available by mail order with VERGE : http://www.vergemusic.com They made several concerts in France in may 1999. In the CD, main extracts from a concert given in Paris (in a boat on the Seine). There was a video film made too. Jacques Oger >Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:38:20 -0500 >From: David Keffer >Subject: Jean-Francois Pauvros + Keiji Haino > >There is a rumor that a cd has been released that features >duos of the experimental guitarist Jean-Francois Pauvros >with Keiji Haino. The only information I have is that it >has already been released in January 2000 and it is on a French label. >For those Zorn-listers in Europe, anyone have additional >information on the release? Title? Label? Is the rumor >true at all? Is it the live performance from 19 May, 1999 which >featured Haino + Jean-Francois Pauvros + Francois Causse at Musique >Action 99 at Centre Culturel Andre Malraux, Vandoeuvre, Nancy, France? > >Thanks. > >David K. > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:35:38 -0500 From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: dave d & indie cool like others here, i've sorta straddled the fence between the hipness of diy releases and the clout that comes with major label contracts. somehow it' just more fun to get something on screwgun or hopscotch or aum, but the big deals always seem to come with the promise of so much more being possible for the artist. better distribution, i think, is pretty much a given with the majors. but the other perks are what have started to concern me. it seems the bigs sign someone on who's genius has been proven in the minor leagues thinking they're really going to break them. then, when the wynton marsalis and christina aguillera fans don't flock to the avant garde, they drop them summarily. henry threadgill, for example, does not have a recording contract right now. while the 3 yrs or so on columbia definitely gave him some exposure, i wonder if the critics who picked up on "carry the day" might now think his day is past. after a 20+ year recording career, it seems a big label can both make and break an artist fairly easily. that may be overdramatic. musicians i talk to who've been in the biz for a decade or more seem to know the score fairly well: sometimes the gravy train comes along, but soon it ends and it's back to business as usual. the fact is that nothing's going to break experimental music into the mainstream. the occaisonal artist, yes, but not the whole shebang. what did columbia really expect from threadgill or from david murray? i wouldn't have thought they'd do much better than they did (which was pretty well, from all i can gather) during their tenures. how well is atlantic expecting the art ensemble and ribot to do, and what happens if their (likely unrealistic) expectations are not met? threadgill had big plans with columbia, like recording his society situation dance band for one. will we see that band recorded now? ever? if so, it will probably be a label like black saint, and basically be promoted by word of mouth. i hope i'll know about it if it ever happens. in the big picture, it doesn't seem any bad can come from dave's contract with rca. like steve said, more people will have access to his music, and that's nothing but good. but when the album quota is up, i hope dave has pushed product enough to meet the suits' needs. (steve, you're not the suit i'm thinking of...) kg - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:55:52 EST From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool In a message dated 1/21/00 8:37:16 AM, you wrote: >>like others here, i've sorta straddled the fence between the hipness of diy releases DIY problem #1 -- People don't know you exist. #2 -- Unless the owe your publicist a favor, they don't care. >>and the clout that comes with major label contracts. Your publicist can buy lunch, and journalists like to eat as much as the next guy. >>somehow it' just more fun to get something on screwgun or hopscotch or aum, Becuase these guys can only afford to put out records that mean something ineffable to them personally. The adjective "compelling" means a lot with these labels. >>but the big deals always seem to come with the promise of so much more being possible for the artist. In Dave Douglas' case, do you think he'll tour if it means sleeping in a van? Major label tour support and a publicist magazine people will listen to mean a lot. Like articles and reviews in magazines read by the people who aren't already buying Dave Douglas records. >>But the other perks are what have started to concern me. I doubt that Dave Douglas is the kind of guy who would take the low road, perk-wise. I don't see him cutting with Harry Connick just because some suit tells him to. >>it seems the bigs sign someone on who's genius has been proven in the minor leagues thinking they're really going to break them. then, when the wynton marsalis and christina aguillera fans don't flock to the avant garde, they drop them summarily. The problem is largely that the majors see a zillion people flock to the Knit or wherever it may be every time DD or somebody like him plays a gig, and they say , "Aha! It's an EMERGENT SCENE. Let us get there first and exploit this and make it THE HAPPENING THING TO BE INTO. What they don't realize is that some music simply isn;t designed to sell millions. It's designed to be what it is, and that's all. This concept is inconceivable to anyplace with an accounting department, who automatically assume that art fails unless its number of consumers grows expoenetially. BTW -- Wynton's mammoth output has meant he's selling badly these days. Does anyone else think this guy is the Garth brooks of hard bop or what? >>henry threadgill, for example, does not have a recording contract right now. And, trust me, the next one he's offered won't make him feel too good. >>while the 3 yrs or so on columbia definitely gave him some exposure, i wonder if the critics who picked up on "carry the day" might now think his day is past. It depends. if he has a publicist with some clout (hard without major $), he can have NEW STREET CRED. But critics are very often into making sure they appear to live ahead of the grading curve, so Threadgill's over. bring on this Douglas guy. he's new. Plus, he's white, and there's always a bit of racism at play in the music press. >>after a 20+ year recording career, it seems a big label can both make and break an artist fairly easily. Failure to sell zillions will stigmatize you as a high profile example of somebody nobody cares about. This, by the way, has nothing to do with whether or not your music was worth a damn. >>Sometimes the gravy train comes along, but soon it ends and it's back to business as usual. Can anyone say "Esquivel"? >>The fact is that nothing's going to break experimental music into the mainstream. True. if the mjaors wanna deal with it, they should do so as a matter of, "Well, we make all this money, so we should at least put a little of it into recording stuff for the sake of just doing the right thing". An idea that ends at the accounting department. >>What did columbia really expect [from david murray]? That, since he had been making tons of records for years, he had established enough of a following to support him if his work was consolidated and well-distributed. Reasonable on paper. What they failed to see is that DM has never sold enough records for any one label that he's been kept in one place by a deal that meant he was taken seriously in the marketplace. >>How well is atlantic expecting the art ensemble and ribot to do, and what happens if their (likely unrealistic) expectations are not met? They're probably expecting Ribot to do fairly well, given his rep as a real live guitar hero. But his first record for them was weak, didn't show well in the marketplace, and the cred that comes with great press didn't come because the reviews were, at best, mixed. As for the AEC, years of great press and somebody who knew how to spe&M. However -- the end result was one LP each. >>threadgill had big plans with columbia, like recording his society situation dance band for one. will we see that band recorded now? ever? if so, it will probably be a label like black saint, and basically be promoted by word of mouth. You just outlined the likely scenario. >>in the big picture, it doesn't seem any bad can come from dave's contract with rca. like steve said, more people will have access to his music, and that's nothing but good. but when the album quota is up, i hope dave has pushed product enough to meet the suits' needs. He may push that much product. Dave Douglas is not only a real artist, but enough of a hustler to know how to make himself visible, and to whom. He's one of the few guys savvy enough to see all the different buttons he'll need to push if he wants to stay in business. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:14:20 -0500 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Tim Berne - "Afternoon Tea" Night two of the Tim Berne episode was again very, very good. The setting was different (and better), Tonic. The group was different as well (not better, not worse). Tim was joined by Tom Rainey on drums, Tony Malaby on tenor sax, and Eric Friedlander on cello. The group was billed as "Tim's Afternoon Tea Band" but when he introduced the band he said that he didn't have a name for it yet and just introduced the players. This group was a lot like Bloodcount, but only in the instrumentation. A cello instead of a bass and Tony Malaby on tenor sax instead of Chris Speed (and no clarinet). They played two of Tim's new compositions. The first was untitled as of yet, tentatively called "No", or perhaps "Oh No". It was about 20 minues long, like "Composure" of the previous night. Again it was characteristically Berneian in style, structure, and sound. These are all good things, from where I sit. This composition gave a lot of room to Tony for "soloing." I put that in quotes because I think Tim's music really blurs the lines between improvisation and composition as well as blurring the lines between soloing and group improvisation. The second and final composition was "Sketches of Pain," the same one as the previous night. The cello and the tenor sax were playing many of the same lines together as the keyboard played the previous night. Again, this was a great performance. The suite passed between the different parts separated by improvisation. The suite clocked in at about 55 minutes. Being the group's first performance, some of the changes were not as smooth as they could have been. Tim had to eye the other players to let them know a new part was coming. I noted that Tom Rainey did not need these cues. It seems he may be Tim's right hand man. I was impressed with Eric Friedlander. I had never seen him play before and I really enjoyed his playing, which I'm most familiar with from listening to the Masada String Trio recordings. His improvisations had more of a Masada/Middle Eastern flavor to them as opposed to a Berne flavor, but that's just nit-picking. I enjoyed it nonetheless. Yet again, there is another performance by Tim tonight at Tonic, with Bobby Previte's band including Mark Helias and Elliot Sharp. Dan Hewins - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:16:04 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benton Subject: Re: Tim Berne - Quicksand Steve Smith (or maybe someone else, my apologies to all involved if I've gotten this confused) said: > I overheard Tim say, "it was a blast" and Craig say, "rehearsal can't > prepare one for this..." Spiraling off from Craig's quote, I have to pass on some priceless words from saxophone monster Tony Malaby (interviewed I think in Jazziz) about his first gig with one of Tim's bands: "It felt like I'd been initiated into some kind of cult." - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 03:34:45 -0500 From: "Joslyn Layne" Subject: Stevie Wishart? Hello, i wondering if anyone out there can recommend a particular stevie wishart recording.. i recently got a cave12 compilation [distr. through recrec] called 'haikus urbains' in which 29 artists have one minute tracks (remember the ralph steadman coverd 'miniatures'?), and one minute remixes. it's a cool roster of artists: frith, yoshihide, tom cora, luc & andy ex, iva bittova, jon rose, leonid soybelman [kletka red], carlos zingao, haco, frank pahl and more. i'm intrigued by wishart's tracks, among others, and am not sure what recording to pick up that will be along these more experimental lines, since most of her CDs are medeival classical. thanks for your help, joslyn - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:07:10 -0500 From: James Hale Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool Velaires@aol.com wrote: > DIY problem #1 -- People don't know you exist. #2 -- Unless the owe your > publicist a favor, they don't care. > Your publicist can buy lunch, and journalists like to eat as much as the next > guy. > In Dave Douglas' case, do you think he'll tour if it means sleeping in a van? > Major label tour support and a publicist magazine people will listen to mean > a lot. Like articles and reviews in magazines read by the people who aren't > already buying Dave Douglas records. > It depends. if he has a publicist with some clout (hard without major $), he > can have NEW STREET CRED. But critics are very often into making sure they > appear to live ahead of the grading curve, so Threadgill's over. bring on > this Douglas guy. he's new. Plus, he's white, and there's always a bit of > racism at play in the music press. Skip: In my experience variously as a jazz journalist, concert promoter and radio announcer for more than 20 years, it's the PR people for indie labels (not to mention hustling artists themselves) who get their music heard, played and reviewed, not the majors. I hear far more often from music-devoted publicists like Brian Coleman at Braithwaite & Katz pushing discs like Sex Mob or Kitty Brazelton's Dadadah than I ever do from someone working directly with a major label. This is not a knock against Steve Smith ('cause he doesn't service journalists here in Canada) but I have yet to hear from ANYONE at RCA Victor concerning new signings Dave Douglas or D.D. Jackson, despite the fact that I've written about both extensively over the years and live and work in Jackson's hometown. So much for major label clout! And, big or small, I've never had a publicist offer to buy me a coffee, let alone lunch. As to the Great White Hope comment... I don't think that warrants a response. James Hale - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:22:44 GMT From: "Scott Handley" Subject: lovin' some lovens (and wittwer) I'm listening to a tape with material from what must be CHOICE-CHASE by Paul Lovens (perc), Paul Schutz (elec cello), and Stephan Wittwer (elec guitar), live in Zurich, early Nineties. It's pretty amazing, with more Wittwer here than Lovens. I've only heard Wittwer on GROOVES N' LOOPS (COWWS), and it was not this amazing. What else has he, Wittwer, done? Is it hard to find? - ----s ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:58:14 -0500 From: Steve Clay Subject: PROMO: John Zorn, editor of Arcana: Musicians on Music [special offer to zorn-list members at end this post] Arcana: Musicians on Music Edited by John Zorn Answering a need for critical attention towards experimental and avant-garde music, Arcana is a ground-breaking work as far-ranging and dynamic as the current generation of musicians. Through manifestoes, scores, interviews, notes and critical papers, performer/composers address composing, playing, improvising, teaching, and thinking in and through music. Rather than an attempt to distill or define musicians' work, Arcana illuminates with personal vision and experience. Arcana is a remarkable book-challenging and original-essential for composers, musicans, theorists and fans alike. "Arcana is a vibrant testimony to the continuing vitality of new music. These exciting young composers are as idiosyncratic and eloquent with words as they are with music." -Meredith Monk. Composer / Singer "Arcana, edited by John Zorn, is filled with writings by musicians from all over the musical map. Interested in the sampling, deconstruction and reconstruction of pop hooks? The historical sociobiology of the downtown music scene? An American's reaction to the study of Gagaku? Extended contrabass techniques? A savvy take on ear plugs, amplifier distortion and pain? This is the book you've been looking for." -Steve Reich. Composer / Performer Contributors Chris Brown, Anthony Coleman, Marilyn Crispell, Mark Dresser, Stephen Drury, Bill Frisell, Fred Frith, Peter Garland, Gerry Hemingway, Scott Johnson, Eyvind Kang, Guy Klucevsek, George Lewis David Mahler, Miya Masaoka, Myra Melford, Ikue Mori, Larry Ochs, Bob Ostertag, John Oswald, Mike Patton, Marc Ribot, David Rosenboom, John Schott, Elliott Sharp, David Shea, Frances-Marie Uitti, Lois V Vierk, Z'EV, and John Zorn 380pp. illustrated. Contains a discography. Should start showing up in bookstores about Feb., 1, 00 ISBN 1-887123-27-X $24.95 Publisher: Granary Books / Hips Road Further information at http://www.granarybooks.com Available at better bookstores, our primary distributor D.A.P. (1-800-338-BOOK), SPD in Berkeley, or direct from the publisher (orders@granarybooks.com). SPECIAL OFFER: Until Jan. 31, 00 Arcana is available to list members at a flat price of $20 which includes surface postage anywhere in the world! [Only residents of the state of New York must include sales tax making the total $21.65] Send check or money order payable to Granary Books, Inc. 307 Seventh Ave., #1401 New York, NY 10001 [International orders only should email a credit card number; we prefer checks for domestic orders.] Don't miss this one! Granary Books 307 Seventh Ave., #1401 [@ 28th St.] NY, NY 10001 tel 212 337-9979 fax 212 337-9774 - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #839 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". 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