From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #840 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Saturday, January 22 2000 Volume 02 : Number 840 In this issue: - Re: dave d & indie cool Re: Tim Berne - Quicksand Re: dave d & indie cool Re: masada t-shirts Re: Tim Berne - "Afternoon Tea" The Sign of Four Re: lovin' some lovens (and wittwer) Re: Bill Laswell's Jazzonia Re: dave d & indie cool New Henry Kaiser release Conjure on CD Joseph Holbrooke Taboo and Exile Photo Re: Taboo and Exile Photo Re: dave d & indie cool RE: Conjure on CD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:37:36 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool Big labels use "avant garde" acts as prestige loss-leaders. In his (ghost written) autobiography Clive Davis bluntly says that Columbia (which he then ran) had people like Ornette Coleman on the label so that year's (week's) pop sensation could see that person's presence and figure "Hey Columbia is hip, I'll sign with them." Once the ag-ers usefulness is gone its out the window for them. Which CBS did in, I think, 1975 when they defenestrated Bill Evans, Ornette and Keith Jarett at the same time. At the same time, if an a-g (and I'm using this as verbal shorthand) artist is smart, he or she will just use the major to get distribution for his latest project and perhaps some above poverty-level cash. The best solution would for the major to merely distribute some tiny label and get it into the far corners of North America and the world. It works for pop music, why not "jazz/new music/ag/etc"? Ken Waxman - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:16:23 -0500 From: James Hale Subject: Re: Tim Berne - Quicksand Ken Waxman wrote: > I've rarely heard of Carter playing around recently, what > ever happened to that particular young lion? Don't know what he's doing with his own music, but he's on the upcoming D.D. Jackson CD "Anthem" on RCA Victor. James Hale - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:11:40 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool Ken Waxman wrote: > Big labels use "avant garde" acts as prestige loss-leaders. In his (ghost > written) autobiography Clive Davis bluntly says that Columbia (which he > then ran) had people like Ornette Coleman on the label so that year's > (week's) pop sensation could see that person's presence and figure "Hey > Columbia is hip, I'll sign with them." A very insightful point, and very accurate as regards the old ways of thinking when bigger-than-life characters like Clive were the rule, not the exception. But I don't think this construct especially holds true anymore. You don't find many majors who care as much about this sort of perception, I don't think, or there would be a few more avant-gardists and even old-time mainstreamers signed right now. During this phase it appears to be "all about the Benjamins," as someone recently said somewhere... Referring again to the example of David S. Ware on Columbia (and I'm giving away no state secrets here), the jazz department basically *knew* that there was no chance DSW was going to sell a ton of records - Branford signed DSW because A) Branford respects DSW and B) Branford was being willfully provocative with his earliest signings when he assumed his A&R mantle. And therefore it was absolutely mandatory that Steven Joerg and I generate a ton of press attention for the record so that the jazz department would have something substantial to show those higher up. That we were able to do that is not any kind of testament to my "skills" as a publicist (although Steven beats the bushes like no one else I've ever met - he's an agreeable zealot of the highest order). Rather, it's more down to the fact that lots and lots of writers love DSW and when they were presented with a record by him on a major it was much, much easier to get their editors to agree to give them column inches. Mind you, the DSW disc sold quite respectably (and better than numerous mainstream releases from the same label during the same year), but probably not so much more than the same exact recording might have sold if it were on AUM but enjoyed distribution and advertising comparable to that which Columbia could muster, which is more or less what Ken suggests later (and we'll get to that in due time). > Once the ag-ers usefulness is gone its out the window for them. Which CBS > did in, I think, 1975 when they defenestrated Bill Evans, Ornette and > Keith Jarett at the same time. Yes, the infamous "Bad Day at Black Rock." I think Mingus was also dropped in that particular bloodbath. > The best solution would for the major to merely distribute some tiny > label and get it into the far corners of North America and the world. It > works for pop music, why not "jazz/new music/ag/etc"? But *does* it work even for pop music? I can't imagine that Matador really enjoyed its tenure with a major, and it didn't really seem to do much for them in terms of status or sales, either. Liz Phair has not become the potty-mouthed sales equivalent of Sheryl Crow just yet. (Parenthetically speaking, there's a pretty damn fine article in this week's Village Voice on the dire straits of the alt-rock scene at the majors and what one band did in response to being dropped four months after their record was released by a major - http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0003/joy.shtml). While I can't think of many alternative rock bands that truly flourished after passing from an indie to a major since Nirvana, although Sonic Youth get points for longevity at least, since most of them seem to break up, pace Husker Du - and please, don't make claims for Smashing Pumpkins or Hole - neither can I think of an example in recent memory where an indie linked up with a major and actually improved its lot by much or for long. I do think the DIW/Columbia partnership was a good example of the potential of what you suggest and some good records made it as far as the store in which I worked on the outskirts of Houston ten years ago (whereas before that DIW discs were mythological things I had to order from Cadence). But it didn't last because the people at Columbia left and were replaced and the new regime presumably didn't care to inherit that particular deal. Similarly, the much-touted Knitting Factory Records/Columbia deal lasted for exactly one record (and less than that if you ask Steven Bernstein, who basically got fucked over, no matter how you look at it). The JMT/Polygram deal ended in tears and with the net result that ten years' worth of Tim Berne's career is out of print and inaccessible even by the artist himself. ECM has done far better than most, but even they are now with their fourth major label affiliation (fifth if you go back as far as the "Polygram Special Products" days). Still, such affilations are not without benefit: note that the Art Ensemble of Chicago did not make a new record for Atlantic; they made a new record for the French label Birdology, which was then licensed by Atlantic. Same with Ahmad Jamal, for that matter. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Dave Douglas, "Mary's Idea," 'Soul on Soul' - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:13:56 -0800 (PST) From: "m. rizzi" Subject: Re: masada t-shirts Jason Tors, demi-God and Icon sez: > >I was in downtown music gallery yesterday and they have maroon masada >tshirts for sale. Funny that I'm wearing that shirt as I read about it on the zorn-list. Wonderful. mike - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:05:27 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Tim Berne - "Afternoon Tea" > Being the group's first performance, some of the changes were not as > smooth as they could have been. Tim had to eye the other players to > let them know a new part was coming. I noted that Tom Rainey did not > need these cues. It seems he may be Tim's right hand man. I don't know much about Berne's compositional style, but from this description I was wondering: is it possible that the cues being given were quite necessary "end of solo" type cues that would be different for every performance? And the reason the drummer didn't need them was that he would just play through them while the other instruments needed to change for the new section? Just curious, I have heard very little Tim Berne... - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:01:47 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: The Sign of Four From what I understand from one of the blurbmails I get, Pat Metheny has scored a movie of this name, and his ostensibly beautiful soundtrack will be released on CD. I grin at the projected digestive disorders of those who might think they were getting, but instead buy and put on his *other* album of the same name :-) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2000 22:25:09 -0600 From: Ben Axelrad Subject: Re: lovin' some lovens (and wittwer) He's got a solo cd "World of Strings" on Intakt of 5 improvisations. It's pretty interesting -- very good, but not great. He's also featured on Koch/Studer/Schutz/Demierre/Dietz/... "CHOCKSHUT" on Intakt, and Rudiger Carl's "Virtual COWWS" on FMP, which are both excellent. I noticed he's also on a Carlos Baumann disc on Unit and probably creeps up here and there on other discs. Ben ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: lovin' some lovens (and wittwer) Author: c123018@hotmail.com at Internet-USA Date: 1/21/00 3:25 PM I'm listening to a tape with material from what must be CHOICE-CHASE by Paul Lovens (perc), Paul Schutz (elec cello), and Stephan Wittwer (elec guitar), live in Zurich, early Nineties. It's pretty amazing, with more Wittwer here than Lovens. I've only heard Wittwer on GROOVES N' LOOPS (COWWS), and it was not this amazing. What else has he, Wittwer, done? Is it hard to find? - ----s ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:42:45 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Bill Laswell's Jazzonia In a message dated 1/19/00 1:15:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, bashline@hotmail.com writes: << Jazzonia is not my favorite piece by Bill but it has more to do with my dislike for this genre of jazz than with Laswell's interesting rendering in a hip-hop scat format. As far as descriptors like "complete bullshit" or "lame", they say more about the one who comments than about the music. >> The person also said "poorly-played", and out of all of these comments- this is the one that is most off-base. This CD is a continuation of Laswell's exploration of various fusions of hiphop beats and fill-in-the-genre-here music- this time the genre being cool r'n'b-influenced scatting. While this is not a CD that most on this list would race out to buy, I can't think of a better disc in recent memory to throw on at the later hours of your nest gathering of friends- the ones you wouldn't dare expose to Zorn's even more "mild" excursions. Yes- i'm talking about that "mainstream" crowd. There's also some rap here and there too, a warning for those who tend to get scared off by such. Once you've gotten past those few bits, there's some cool music in store, and some *good* playing here. Oh- did I mention that this is great "chick" music? You can thank Stephen later. ;-) =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:43:04 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool At 09:11 PM 1/21/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > >While I can't think of many alternative rock bands that truly flourished >after passing from an indie to a major since Nirvana, although Sonic Youth >get points for longevity at least, since most of them seem to break up, pace >Husker Du - and please, don't make claims for Smashing Pumpkins or Hole - >neither can I think of an example in recent memory where an indie linked up >with a major and actually improved its lot by much or for long. Hole is certainly a bad example. I heard a story on NPR yesterday that they're getting sued by Geffen, who wants them *never* to make a release under the name Hole again, claiming they owe Geffen six albums. And one point that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet: we would probably not all be here together if JZ hadn't gotten his deal on Nonesuch and we were relying on his Parachute releases for knowledge of his activities. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more than one way to conquer a country. - -- Raymond Chandler - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:15:32 +0100 From: "Stefan Verstraeten" Subject: New Henry Kaiser release Hi, Just to let you know that there is a very fine release by Henry Kaiser. Although, it is actually a album by Henry Kaiser and Roberto Zorzi, called 'through' and is released on the italian materiali sonori label. Personally, it is very good to see Henry back in full force after his splendid miles davis cover album. In this release, he teamed up with the guitar player of the italian band LA1919, and believe me, these two guitar players have both a very open mind towards styles of music. The album shows a broad range of genres: from derek bailey guitar picking (there is also a track that feature a chat between these two players, just like derek bailey does, but the funny thing here is that roberto zorzi doesn't speak english very well, and they play at a very loud level, so actually the chat is very funny to listen to, since roberto does not understand one word..... result: very strange answers to simple questions) to bluegrass, blues, noise, romantic new age music and a very beatiful cover of a nick drake song (Time of no reply). I think I made my point clear: if you have the chance to pick up this album, please do so. If you can't find it in the shops, you can allways check out http://www.matson.it Stefan Verstraeten stefan.annik@planetinternet.be NP Percy Howard solo album (also on the same label) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:26:50 -0500 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Conjure on CD Has the American Clave release 'Conjure' been issued to disc? I know much of the rest of their catalogue has been, but don't recall seeing this one ('Conjure' was a Hanrahan-organized project dedicated to putting Ishmael Reed's texts to music and included folk like David Murray, Olu Dara, Lester Bowie, Taj Mahal and many others). Was playing the first album this morning and being knocked out by, among other things, Dara's playing on 'Duelism' and would really like to have it on CD. Thanks. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:41:21 -0500 From: "David J. Keffer" Subject: Joseph Holbrooke Earlier, I had asked for a review of the Joseph Holbrooke cdep on INCUS and some folks expressed interest but no one had heard it yet. Well, now I have heard it, maybe half a dozen times, so I will give a brief review. 10 minutes, including what sounds like sound check. Overall sensation: nothing. Had to listen to it 6 times to make sure that I had heard it. Total background jazz, as I have heard played in the jazz clubs of Kansas City by local musicians, who have no reputation or inclination for playing improvisation outside the jazz idiom. In short, I cannot distinguish this guitar playing as Derek Baileys as from any practiced, mellow, restaurant background jazz trio. All of the theory regarding Joseph Holbrooke that is discussed by Derek Bailey in his Improvisation book is not apparent to me. Even as an example of Derek Bailey playing "straight" jazz, this cd was not particularly rewarding, although my general disappointment with the cd (cd-rom actually) may have colored my perception on this last point. David K. p.s. I agree with Steve S. that "Drop Me Off At 96th" is my favorite solo Derek Bailey release. I like him giving the Incus address to guitar accompaniment. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:47:46 PST From: "J.M. Schuller" Subject: Taboo and Exile Photo Has anyone noticed the secret photograph hidden under the tray in Taboo and Exile? You must take the tray out and look under the art.... Taboo indeed... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:00:43 -0500 From: "ADM" Subject: Re: Taboo and Exile Photo Whoa mother! I didn't notice that or the hardly viewable picture that hides the underneat picture! - ----- Original Message ----- From: J.M. Schuller To: Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 2:47 PM Subject: Taboo and Exile Photo > Has anyone noticed the secret photograph hidden under the tray in Taboo and > Exile? You must take the tray out and look under the art.... > Taboo indeed... > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:04:36 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool In a message dated 1/21/00 9:13:14 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << While I can't think of many alternative rock bands that truly flourished after passing from an indie to a major since Nirvana >> I'm not exactly sure whether you're talking about artistically or financially flourishing here. if it's artistic, the Boredoms have made their best records for Warner (albeit Warner Japan), and Ween definitely took a step forward with their first record for Elektra (Pure Guava), although it's been downhill (way, way downhill lately) ever since. Stereolab have made their best records since they were signed to Elektra. and Monster Magnet's best record was their first for A&M, Superjudge. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:20:47 -0500 From: "Sean Terwilliger" Subject: RE: Conjure on CD I have both Conjure albums on CD - The first on Pangaea and the second on American Clave. Haven't seen either of them around in ages though. THis first might have been reissued by Rounder when they had the AC distribution. - -Sean > Has the American Clave release 'Conjure' been issued to disc? I know > > Brian Olewnick > > - > - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #840 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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