From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #863 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, February 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 863 In this issue: - mp3s Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?) Re: The complete Masada Songbook Re: mp3s Re: mp3s MMW Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?) Re: mp3s Morrissey Re: The complete Masada/Newsgroups Re: e-rax Re: Morrissey Morrissey Re: So. How'd it happen? Futurist Cookbook MMW opinions zappa (how'd it happen) Re: zappa (how'd it happen) Re: Futurist Cookbook Re: Re: zappa (how'd it happen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:08:12 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Alan Hammond Subject: mp3s Here's my take. Music is a pure thing. Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights, All bullshit created by fear. The music is the insanity. Insanity must flourish. Let it out. Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:10:39 +0100 From: patRice Subject: Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?) Neil H. Enet wrote: > > PROGRESSIVE phase. Then in 1994 I bought MORRISSEY's Vauxhall and I and > that changed everything for me. wow! yes! someone else on the list who digs morrissey! cool. haven't really listened to his more recent output, but some of the old stuff i love. especially with the smiths... > anything wilder, tell me, please). I was still into the TRIP HOP Jazz > thing, so I bought MMW's Bubblehouse which has a TRIP HOP remix of a song > where Zorn plays. who is "mmw" please??? yours, pat - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:11:10 +0100 From: patRice Subject: Re: The complete Masada Songbook Vanheumen, Robert wrote: > > i should've been more subtle... > i'm very careful with copying cd's for other people. when i do it, i never > copy whole cd's, but make 'sampler' cd's, with one of two songs per artist, > with the idea to 'tease' them a little so they hopefully go out and buy the > whole cd of a specific artist! > and then only if this person does not usually listen to that kind of stuff > or really doesn't have the $$ to buy all kinds of cd's just to 'try it out'. > and i'm a musician too, so i also know the other side... > i'm just trying to spread the music without taking money out of the artists > pockets... > if someone copies a cd for me and i really dig the stuff, i would buy the > original anyway just for the artwork and to support him/her! > > robert right! so we're both on the same wavelength here! glad to know! yours, pat - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:25:54 +0100 From: patRice Subject: Re: mp3s there is a lot of bullshit out there, true. a lot of it created by feat, yes. what some / most (?) of us on this list are trying to do is to support the musicians whose music we love by buying their releases and therefore enabling them to keep on working on their thing. (and them providing us with more eardrum-bending, heart-touching music!) bootleg mp3s, when no-one's making money, are okay in my books. no problem with that. but if you say "fuck copyrights ... blabla", what you're actually saying is "fuck the people who wrote and recorded the music", "fuck john zorn". etc. that, being a musician myself, i think is just a fucking bad attitude i can't dig at all. yours, patRice Troy Alan Hammond wrote: > > Here's my take. > Music is a pure thing. > Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights, > All bullshit created by fear. > The music is the insanity. > Insanity must flourish. > Let it out. > Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:42:27 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: mp3s Troy: I don't think you'd be that thrilld if it was your work being bootlegged for free with you getting no compensation for it. An artist deserves to have his art appreciated. He also deserves to make enough fro it so he can live and create other art. Ken Waxman On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Troy Alan Hammond wrote: > Here's my take. > Music is a pure thing. > Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights, > All bullshit created by fear. > The music is the insanity. > Insanity must flourish. > Let it out. > Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:08:27 -0400 From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: MMW patRICE: MMW is Medeski Martin& Wood. Their ep Bubblehouse has a few remixes and there's the DRACULA remix by DJ LOGIC on which Zorn plays the alto sax. The best song in the EP, in my opinion. Neil H. Enet - ------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:10:08 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?) On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:10:39 +0100 patRice wrote: > > > PROGRESSIVE phase. Then in 1994 I bought MORRISSEY's Vauxhall and I and > > that changed everything for me. > wow! yes! someone else on the list who digs morrissey! cool. haven't > really listened to his more recent output, but some of the old stuff i > love. especially with the smiths... Add me to the list of Smiths fans. The Jesus & The Mary Chain and The Smiths were the two groups that made me realize how much I had lost by discarding rock music during most of the '80s. Is there any other "modern" (not anymore) band which could put up such fantastic singles? Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:25:12 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: mp3s >>>Here's my take.<<< Is your livelihood affected in any way by this issue? Are you a musician? - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:37:28 -0800 (PST) From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Morrissey I think Morrissey is one of the most underrated artists around. Through him/Smiths I became quite aware of a pop culture that I wasn't fully in tuned with. Via their album covers, literature taste, etc. Via Morrissey I got into Johnnie Ray, Billy Fury, etc. Really interesting 'twisted' pop stuff. & one of the other great things about him is....he is his music/image. - ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://tamtambooks.com/ - ------------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:40:46 -0600 From: King Wilson Subject: Re: The complete Masada/Newsgroups >Vanheumen, Robert wrote: > > > > i should've been more subtle... > > i'm very careful with copying cd's for other people. when i do it, i never > > copy whole cd's, but make 'sampler' cd's, with one of two songs per artist, > > with the idea to 'tease' them a little so they hopefully go out and buy the > > whole cd of a specific artist! One thing you have to remember is that this is a PUBLIC mail list. I think people forget sometimes that there are hundreds of people who don't ever post anything, but read every message. When you post something, you are not just talking to the people who are taking an active role in the conversation, but to a large crowd of people, who are all listening to you. A few days ago, some announced to the KLF list the login and password of a huge, long time running KLF ftp archive. The owner of the archive was suddenly swamped, and had to change the L/P. Now there are alot of people pissed off (myself included)......... BTW I just wanted to recommend to people of the List that they start checking out the alt.binaries newsgroups. They are starting to really take off. On alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootleg alone, there recently been shows by Tom Waits, Naked City, Mr. Bungle, Can, Faust, Talking Heads, Bill Frisell, Phish's 8 hour New Year's set, etc. It's pretty amazing just how much music you can get. If your ISP's newsgroup server sucks as bad as mine does (which I think is pretty much universally true) go over to supernews.com, or any of the other ftp servers. Pay around 10 bucks a month to get up to 2.5 gigs of downloads. Usually, the binaries are on the server for about a week. The Music/Cost ratio is unbelievable, and I'm finding things I would never find if I had to track down the tapes, physically.... read icculus - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:40:29 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: e-rax On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:05:47 -0800 (PST) Tom Pratt wrote: > > Definitely. I've only played it once through so far, > but it sounded really great. Thomas Lehn is a massive > force to be reckoned with. I'd also encourage folks > check out the new Lehn/Hemingway 2-CD duet on our own > Jon Abbey's Erstwhile label. It kicks ass, for sure. I hearfully second that recommendation! There are moments where Thomas almost sounds like Michael Waisvisz -- my favorite historical-under-documented synthesizer improviser. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:45:57 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Morrissey On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:37:28 -0800 (PST) Tosh wrote: > > I think Morrissey is one of the most underrated artists around. Through ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We would have to define the word "underrated". I mean, if you consider Morrissey underrated, what to say of most people we are talking about on this list... His steady whining makes it look like he is, but you would have to break the thermometer of popular fame to agree with him. Besides himself, he is victim of having been in such a great band, and the effect of the hangover have not been dissipated yet. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:03:27 -0800 (PST) From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Morrissey Personally (and I know I am one of the few) actually like the Solo Morrissey stuff better than the Smiths. What I was commenting when saying 'underrated' is the fact the Morrissey represents a whole era of pop culture & its off- shoots (New York Dolls, Oscar Wilde, Johnnie Ray, London 60's, Kray Twins, boxing, gay, Charles Dickens, etc.) that are not picked up by the general audience. Most what I see in the press is that he is 'eccentric of sorts' or that he doesn't really matter anymore, that he just pisses and moans, etc.. Which may or may not be true - but I can't think of any artist except Zorn (introducing s&m culture, Japanese films, trash culture, etc.) or Sonic Youth (avant-culture) and some others whose work is set out to expose a much bigger context than just a piece of music. At least that is what I am thinking...and of course that is debatable. ciao, - ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://tamtambooks.com/ - ------------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:30:59 PST From: "J.M. Schuller" Subject: Re: So. How'd it happen? This sort of sums it up for me! Age 5- Sesame Street Records Snow White Soundtrack Age 6- Star Wars Soundtrack Read Along Story Books Age 7- KISS Age 8- More KISS Age 9- Ozzy Osbourne Lots of MTV Age 10- Lots and Lots of MTV Age 11- AC/DC Age 12- More AC/DC Age 13- Black Flag Suicidal Tendencies Minor Threat Age 14- More Black Flag Minutemen Meat Puppets Age 15- Redd Kross RKL Melvins Age 16- Soundgarden Crumbsuckers Bad Brains Age 17- Slayer Public Enemy Beastie Boys Age 18- Jimi Hendrix Cream Robert Johnson Age 19- Funkadelic Faith No More Rollins Band Age 20- Sonic Youth My Name Phish Age 21- Melvins Earth Godhead Silo Age 22- More Melvins Zeke More Funkadelic Age 23- Steely Dan Captain Beefheart Frank Zappa James Brown Age 24- More Zappa Mahavishnu Orchestra Miles Davis John Fahey Age 25- Naked City Charles Mingus Pigpen Derek Bailey Marc Ribot Wayne Horvitz Bill Frisell etc. Age 26- Ween Noel Akchote Fred Frith Massacre Ikue Mori eyvind Kang etc. Age 27- Merzbow Kato Hideki John Oswald Jim O'rourke etc. John Schuller ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:49:42 EST From: Whitejams@aol.com Subject: Futurist Cookbook I'm sure all of you are aware of Mike Patton's Tzadik release of Pranzo Oltranzista and how it was inspired by Marinetti's "Futurist Cookbook". My question is this...how can I obtain a copy of the Futurist Cookbook? It's out of print, does anyone own it? Can you let me know anything about it. Is anyone an expert on the Futurists? I am an intrigued and want to know more about the art and the music. THANKS___ATOM - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:59:52 -0700 From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: MMW opinions >who is "mmw" please??? ...as has been written this is Medeski Martin and Wood. I sort of jazz/groove vamp trio. Medeski plays multiple keyboards, Billy Martin plays drums, and Chris Wood plays bass. If you're interested in their music I recommend that you avoid purchasing the "Bubblehouse" ep first as it is not one of their better albums. I recommend these: - -Notes from the Underground (more acoustic with horns -- kind of early jazz beginnings of the group...my personal favorite and their earliest) - -It's a Jungle in Here - -Friday Afternoon in the Universe all are good, but all three are different. In my opinion they've been in a rut since the release of "shack man" although they can still be a lot of fun to see live (I saw them last year in Denver). I kind of overdosed on their music in high school and have rarely listened to records since. matt - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:13:35 -0700 From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: zappa (how'd it happen) I've been noticing a number of people who mention Zappa as their early influence. What do some of you folks think of these albums: Thing Fish Yellow Shark (Ensemble Modern) These are the two which have most sparked my curiousity (after watching 200 motels which). I'm wondering if anyone can make sence of Thing Fish...it was intended as an opera right? It seems that the yellow shark album while it may represent the music Zappa always hoped to write it may not appeal to most Zappa listeners. Maybe it belongs more in the area of Varese (Zappa's hero), but it seems that modern classical listeners are hesitant to consider Zappa as a composer. Do they have good reason? Maybe there are some Varese, Crumb, Bartok etc. fans out there who can help. matt - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:40:18 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: zappa (how'd it happen) On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 05:13:35PM -0700, Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) wrote: > I've been noticing a number of people who mention Zappa as their early > influence. What do some of you folks think of these albums: > > Thing Fish > Yellow Shark (Ensemble Modern) I enjoy a lot of Zappa -- but I either just don't get Thing Fish or it really is an excruciating waste of vinyl. The music is forgettable, and I wish that the text was... Yellow Shark is good in his "present day composer" mode, but I prefer his stuff where the "art" and vernacular musics mix. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:09:23 -0800 (PST) From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Re: Futurist Cookbook >I'm sure all of you are aware of Mike Patton's Tzadik release of Pranzo >Oltranzista and how it was inspired by Marinetti's "Futurist Cookbook". My >question is this...how can I obtain a copy of the Futurist Cookbook? It's >out of print, does anyone own it? Can you let me know anything about it. Is >anyone an expert on the Futurists? I am an intrigued and want to know more >about the art and the music. > >THANKS___ATOM > I do have the cookbook, and I suggest you read everything by Marinetti (the head Italian Futurist). Most of his work is published by Sun & Moon - and I think you can get it either at your local bookstore or Amazon.com. Try Bookfinder.com for used or out-of-print books. They were the first modernistic 'ism' in the world of aesthetics. They did paintings, writings, music (noise), fashion and films - which I believed at this time are lost. They were generally very much pro-war, pro-fascists, and pro-modern. They saw 'war' as an aesthetic environment as well as a device to blow up things old to make new. One of the things they wanted to do was to get rid of the canals in Venice and replace it with cement/pavement. Their aesthetic in a nutshell was showing speed or worshiping the concept of movement/speed. Forinstince, the automobile. In the timeline, they were before DADA. So somewhere between late 1900's to 1918 was their most intense period of activity. Best, >- - ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://tamtambooks.com/ - ------------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:53:47 EST From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: zappa (how'd it happen) The YELLOW SHARK is definitely a record I look upon with great awe. It's worth remembering that YS is not in itself an extended work, but more of an overview. A great many "new music" ensembles wear on their sleeves that they play Zappa, like it's a badge of hipness and honor. I didn't notice too many of them playing it while he was alive. In the vast majority of performances I've heard, this is likely because Frank would not have endorsed what I heard. Also, the people who are quite often in charge of these ensembles are pretentious twits who don't really know about music as a living, breathing thing. I've had to deal with a few of 'em, and I have noticed that they square the music off. Another reason these guys are all scrambling to include "The Black Page" or whatever is that dead guys -- like Zappa and Piazzolla -- are somehow hipper than they are in life. This new breed of ensemble leaders likes to look really hip -- especially as they're dismissing new music from New York. I've heard more nasty stuff about Zorn from these a--holes than you can believe, even though they can't really name any of his pieces. But they lionize Zappa. This is ironic. In my very few moments of conversation with John, I've found him to be WAY more tolerant than Zappa. For those who like Zappa's instrumental writing but nnot so much his orchestral stuff, I recommend YOU CAN'T DO THAT ON STAGE ANYMORE VOLUME 2, which is the 1974 band (musically his best ever, I think) on a really great night in Helsinki. It bridges the gaps between "serious" music and "vernacular" music. (I put those in quotes because I think their stupid terms. Howlin' Wolf is pretty damn serious.) Also, a lot of older composers I know don't care much for Zappa, but they respect the level of craft there. FZ just doesn't speak to them as directly as he does to people raised on a more fragment-friendly (rap, Zorn et al) musical diet. But not all. The film composer David Raskind (LAURA et al) is a big fan, as are a few others I've come to know. best-- sh - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #863 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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