From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #970 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, June 21 2000 Volume 02 : Number 970 In this issue: - Dave Douglas's Witness playing Tonic in July Re: About japanese band Odp: Dave Douglas's Witness playing Tonic in July re: murakami / miyuki miyabe re: lars gustaffson (writer) (was: book of leaves) books "bladerunner" Re: Marclay/Arto Re: Big Gundown Anniversary Edition Re: Marclay/Arto Names Re: Names Re: Marclay/Arto should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names) [murakami-l] OT: More Japanese literature Re: Marclay/Arto ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:52:55 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Dave Douglas's Witness playing Tonic in July Hi all: For those of you who were disappointed to hear about the cancellation of the JVC Festival's Dave Douglas show at Symphony Space in New York City tomorrow night (Thurs. 6/21) that was to have featured the US premiere of his new nonet project Witness, I received a bit of good news tonight. Witness will now be making its debut at Tonic on July 13 and 14. What's more, on both nights the band shares a double bill with the return of one of the rarest of Dave's projects, Thoughts About Mahfouz. See ya there. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (no longer paid to talk about Dave, but happy to do so all the same...) NP - Ellery Eskelin & Han Bennink, "Bud + Shake," 'Dissonant Characters' (hatOLOGY) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:05:15 +0200 From: fas Subject: Re: About japanese band salut, the official ruins homepage can be found at http://www.geocities.co.jp/Hollywood-Kouen/9347/ruins.html "this crazy country" refers to what? japan, usa or france? every country is crazy in some sense, right? if you live in paris, go to the "bladerunner" gig on july 5th (john zorn, fred frith, bill laswell, dave lombardo). the ruins will be in france on july 29th in marseille and july 30th in paris. enjoy, f. > Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 14:32:06 GMT > From: "fink stephane" > Subject: About japanese band > > hello, > > thanks to do something about experimental band, I love this music a punch in > my face each time I ear one. > But I'm interess about a Japanese band call "ruins" can you help me to take > contact with them, please. > And if you know some other experimental band from this crazy country, please > give me. > Sorry for my bad english but I'm french,Hey !,Hey !,Hey !!!!!! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:06:50 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Dave Douglas's Witness playing Tonic in July > For those of you who were disappointed to hear about the cancellation of > the JVC Festival's Dave Douglas show at Symphony Space in New York City > tomorrow night (Thurs. 6/21) that was to have featured the US premiere > of his new nonet project Witness, I received a bit of good news > tonight. Witness will now be making its debut at Tonic on July 13 and > 14. What's more, on both nights the band shares a double bill with the > return of one of the rarest of Dave's projects, Thoughts About Mahfouz. It may seem old news for you on the list but it must be said that: The NYC guys have just to much fun ;-) I hope at least that the crime rate is raising there (OF COURSE this is intended as a joke). Isn't witness his string thing with sax and electronics? Can anybody tell me anything about it? and what is that 'Thoughts about Mahfouz'? Marcin Gokieli marcingokieli@go2.pl <> Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:51:11 +0200 From: patRice Subject: re: murakami / miyuki miyabe JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > > this one's pretty good, but it's definitely a minor work. I'd recommend > starting with Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World can only second this recommendation. "hard-boiled wonderland..." is absolutely fantastic. two stories happening at the same time, that are not two stories, that are two stories. got it? (not sure if i did ;-)) another book by a japanese writer i really like was miyuki miyabe's "all she was worth". it's a pity no other english translations of her works are available. "all she was worth" is a crime story. a guy wants to get married to a girl, finds out she is not the person she pretended to be, and just disappears. the guy asks his uncle, a policeman, to investigate and find her for him. the book is about this chase. i really enjoyed it! if anyone is interested in stuff by other japanese writers, let me know. i've got quite a bit of a collection by now. yours, patRice - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:51:17 +0200 From: patRice Subject: re: lars gustaffson (writer) (was: book of leaves) Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > and enjoyed the Lars > Gustafsson novel Death of a Beekeeper which was recommended here several > months ago. i'm still waiting for this to arrive in the post, and am looking forward to it. i read gustaffson's "stories of happy people" (a collection of short stories) which was great. unusual way of writing, imho, and the stories have some sort of weird touch to them. i can only recommend this! yours, patRice np: (nothing! silence is a rhythm, too...) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:56:42 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: books As there were two positive reactions to Gustaffson's books i recomended few months ago (that makes me quite happy, i must say...), I try to post some other book info: 1) I'm a great fan of L.F. Celine, especially 'mort a credit' (in english it's 'death on installment plan', if i remember correctly). 'Voyage au bout de la nuit' (it should be 'travel to the end of night'), 'd'un chateau l'autre' (from one castle another?) and 'entretiens avec professeur Y' are also great. The 'chateau' are a little bit difficult to read - and there could be serious problems with translation. 'Prof Y' is a great thing: a kind of pseudo - interview with LF Celine he wrote himself. Celine should be THE writer for hardcore 'torture garden' fans (although not for the Masada addicts...;-). 2) Three other scandinavian writers. First, Sven Delblanc: i know his 'gunnar emanuel', which is really ok, a very funnily written book, 'night over jerusalem' - a pseudo biblical strory, 'esperanza' which is really fascinating - a story about a young, 18 year old idealist form XVIII-century Sweden who was send to america: his ship sinked, and he was taken in full sea by a slave transport, whose owners supposed to get some big money from his parents. The ship does not arrive anywhere, and the goy's ideals disapear... quite fun reading. His best, however, is 'river of memeory', which describes the life of a small town. Surrealist elements invade the whole thing. It's incredible, VERY seriously recommended. Second, Tajrei Vesaas. I read his 'ice castle' (for all those scandinavian books i'm not sure of the english titles. The norwegian title is 'is-slottet'), which is really INCREDIBLE. A subtle story about two little girls, of which one dies in ice. Quite unknown, but really incredible. Third, Jens Bjornboe. I read two of his novels: "The sharks", a maritime story, a bit condradesque, but really OK. The second one may be more interesting: it's a part of the cycle called 'the history of brutality' (again, the translation is mine and from polish, so...) and is called 'the moment of liberty'. It's very violent, it tells a chaotic story of a life. It starts quite normally, but after about forty pages STRANGE thing appear... 3) I could also recommend a polish writer who is great, but can be not well known outside Poland: Stanislaw Ignacy Witkiewicz 'Witkacy'. He wrote very funny, surrealist books and great drama (he was also an intersting painter). The 'farewell to automn', '622 falls of Bungo', and 'insatibility' (translation of the titles is mine) are great, as well as all his dramas. Dunno if they've been translated into English (although I think they were). BTW, are there any Philip Dick fans around here ( he's quite well known so i do not knw if he neeeds any recomendation)? Marcin Gokieli marcingokieli@go2.pl <> Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:18:49 +0200 From: "Ari" Subject: "bladerunner" >From: fas >To: "zorn-list@lists.xmission.com" >Subject: Re: About japanese band >Date: woe, 21 jun 2000 10:05 > if you live in paris, go to the "bladerunner" gig on july 5th > (john zorn, fred frith, bill laswell, dave lombardo). > > enjoy, > f. > Hello, I live in Belgium but I have the intention to go to the Zorn-concert in Paris (it's not that far away). As I wasn't at La Villette or the Paris Jazz Festival before, I wanted to ask if it's possible it will be sold out. So, is it necessary to buy a ticket a few days before (and if so, where can I do this?), or can I simply buy my ticket at the entrance itself? Kind regards, Ari. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:39:51 +0100 From: "Peter Marsh" Subject: Re: Marclay/Arto Dan wrote: >> >>Arto, on the other hand, seemed to employ only one technique on his >>guitar and that was turn on the distortion and make noise. As a >>preface I'll say that I don't want to sound disrespectful but I do >>want to describe what I saw as accurately as I can. He didn't ever >>play any "notes" or even very many rhythms. He tuned down the lowest >>string down to a slobber and left it that way for much of the set. >>Does he know how to play the guitar? (I know he does, at least a >>little, by hearing his more song-oriented records but If I hadn't >>ever heard those I would seriously wonder about his skill level.) >Andreas wrote: >Arto is great as a songwriter and singer - not a guitar player. About 10-15 >years ago he decided to concentrate on these things and not to really learn >the guitar. On his latest CDs are lots of phantastic guitars played by Marc >Ribot, Vinicius Cantuaria, Romero Lubambo, Bill Frisell, Amadeo Pace... Arto >is still making the noise. I'm not much of a fan of Arto's solo stuff but I must defend his guitar playing, which is noise generation of the highest order...one of the few guitarists who can effectively create the aural equivalent of a car accident. What he does is obviously nothing to do with conventional technique so it makes no sense to criticise it on that level (in the same way that it would be pointless to criticise Derek Bailey for not playing any tunes...). What it comes down to is whether the noise he makes floats your boat (or not). If it doesn't, that's fine, but technique in the Berklee sense is really not the issue here... cheers Peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:28:20 -0400 From: "&c." Subject: Re: Big Gundown Anniversary Edition Will this reissue include new material (i.e. tracks, liner notes, out takes) or does it simply constitute a change in ownership rights from Elektra to Tzadik? I doubt the new release will be worth the money if one already owns the original. I have been known to be wrong, though. Zach - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:36:13 +0100 From: dan hill Subject: Re: Marclay/Arto >I'm not much of a fan of Arto's solo stuff but I must defend his guitar playing, which is noise generation of the highest order.. absolutely peter. i couldn't agree more. the arto lindsay group live at in london a couple of months ago was perhaps one of the best gigs i've ever been to, and it had everything to do with arto's playing - particularly in collaboration with the awesome rhythm section - he's a true rhythm guitarist - and in sharp contrast to vinicius cantuaria's playing - two utterly different approaches to the guitar, making total sense together. i love his guitar playing (you can also catch him on the recently (re?)issued soundtrack to "down by law" by john lurie, where he's listed as arto "guitar" lindsay ... anyway, good point well made, peter. cheers, dan. - -- - ---+ dan hill [state51] ---+ new reviews on motion [21.6.2000]: < indo | amon tobin | os mutantes | robert rich | hia/biosphere | graham haynes | zed bias > http://motion.state51.co.uk/ +--- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:42:14 -0400 From: "&c." Subject: Names I have been a tad confused by why the name of this list is Zorn List. I've only been subscribing for a short while and quite frankly don't care about some of the things discussed. For instance I don't get to New York too frequently, so that leaves my concert going options limited. I do find some things very informative and some of the exchanges witty. I've found out a lot about Zorn and my horizons have been broadened beyond Zorn as well. I say change the name so newbies know what they're getting. It is some what disappointing if you are looking for a dedicated Zorn mailing list. There's two things wrong with the list, the name and the fact that people take themselves way too seriously. Learn to laugh at yourself. Zach - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:10:55 -0400 (EDT) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: Names On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, &c. wrote: > disappointing if you are looking for a dedicated Zorn mailing list. There's > two things wrong with the list, the name and the fact that people take > themselves way too seriously. Learn to laugh at yourself. I'd suggest you do the same thing. There's no reason for the list to be any more focused than Zorn himself is. More to the point, someone looking for tight-sphinctered, anal retentive little community shouldn't be listening to Zorn in the first place. If someone unsubs b/c they want a dedicated, Zorn-centric list, is that really a loss? ;) A very small opinion, b/c I just subbed very recently myself, but when the first messages that came through talked about Japanese fiction and Dave Douglas concerts, I saw this list was just what I expected it to be. Jason - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:16:54 CEST From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Marclay/Arto >From: "Peter Marsh" >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:39:51 +0100 > >I'm not much of a fan of Arto's solo stuff but I must defend his guitar >playing, which is noise generation of the highest order...one of the few >guitarists who can effectively create the aural equivalent of a car >accident. What he does is obviously nothing to do with conventional >technique so it makes no sense to criticise it on that level (in the same >way that it would be pointless to criticise Derek Bailey for not playing >any >tunes...). What it comes down to is whether the noise he makes floats your >boat (or not). If it doesn't, that's fine, but technique in the Berklee >sense is really not the issue here... > I´m not criticising Arto in a Berklee sense. I´m a great Arto fan, especially his solo stuff, but as he points out in recent interviews, he´s defining himself not as a guitarist and that´s well put. There are lots of other great musicians who are/were not great instrumentalists: Sun Ra, Carla Bley, Thelonious Monk... and some other virtuosos with a lack in conception and they have/had there best moments as a sideman: James Carter, Marc Ribot, Eric Dolphy... Andreas Dietz ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:20:40 +0200 From: patRice Subject: should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names) &c. wrote: > > lot about Zorn and my horizons have been broadened beyond Zorn as well. I > say change the name so newbies know what they're getting. and i say we should NOT change the name. (somebody else already said it: if it ain't broke, why fix it?) i first subscribed to this list because i was a fan of john zorn, but am happy that through that interest i learned so many more new things through this list. > It is some what > disappointing if you are looking for a dedicated Zorn mailing list. i first thought it would cover nothing but zorn, and was not disappointed at all when it turned out i was wrong. it depends on nothing but the subscribers' contributions. therefore, if a subscriber feels he/she would prefer a list that tolerates no mail that has no direct zorn-relating topic - hell, it's quite easy nowadays setting up your own list; e.g. through egroups. patRice - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:29:12 -0400 From: Maurice Rickard Subject: [murakami-l] OT: More Japanese literature At 2:33 AM -0400 6/21/00, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > >this one's pretty good, but it's definitely a minor work. I'd recommend >starting with Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World or The Wind-Up >Bird Chronicle. the latter is as good as any book I've read in the past five >years. Both of these are good--_Bird Chronicle_ particularly. But don't overlook his earlier book _A Wild Sheep Chase_. It's a short, very readable masterwork. It begins very normally, and slowly, steadily slips into the strange (not unlike some Kobo Abe, like _The Ruined Map_--but better). I recommend it highly. (Unfortunately, I found _Dance, Dance, Dance_, the "sequel" to _Sheep Chase_, to be a vast disappointment.) Since I've brought up Abe, (and to go off-topic from the Murakami thread) I've got to say that _The Box Man_ is another mind-blowingly great book. Disturbing, but great. And does anyone else find it amusing that a few people are angry about this being called the zorn-list? "Zorn," after all, is "anger" in German, right? So if they're angry about it, maybe the name is appropriate.... Cheers, - -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:39:57 -0400 From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Marclay/Arto At 4:16 PM -0400 6/21/00, Andreas Dietz wrote: > >There are lots of other great musicians who are/were not great >instrumentalists: Sun Ra, Carla Bley, Thelonious Monk... and some >other ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Oh, I'm going to have to take exception on this one. You ever hear the complete Riverside recordings? If you're thinking of some of those minor seconds, say, or some of the more "off-kilter" voicings or whatever, I've always heard them as deliberate--a following of his own vision, if you will--rather than as mistakes. Or maybe I don't share your definition of "great instrumentalist." (For example,could he fit into someone else's band and not stand out as "Monk"? I don't know.) I've got to say, though, that the distinction you point out here (great musician/not so good instrumentalist, virtuoso/not so good conceptualist) is definitely thought-provoking. Thanks for starting that off. Two posts from me in one day. Man, what a breakneck pace. Best, - -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #970 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. 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