From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #979 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Sunday, June 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 979 In this issue: - free jazz underground Videos or Elegy and the Big Gundown Re: free jazz underground Knit Net and one great Chicago band Re: Knit Net and one great Chicago band Re: free jazz underground Re: siddhartha/klossowski SF etc? RE: Dying Ground Zorn article in essential guide to jazz Odp: dolphymonk!! Massacre Internet Cafe Concert RE: dolphymonk!! Re: Sonic Youth/Stereolab live ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:49:10 EDT From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: free jazz underground here are thurston moore's top ten free jazz underground records... the only one i have is Brotzmann's "nipples"...if anyone has any clues to obtaining any of these please email me. 1 dave burrell- echo 2 milford graves and don pullen- nommo 3 arthur doyle- plus 4-alabama feeling 4 sonny murray- sonny's time now 5 the ric colbeck quartet- the sun is coming up 6 john tchicai and cadentia nova danica- afrodisiaca 7 rashied ali and frank lowe- duo exchange 8 peter brotzmann sextet/quartet- nipples (got it) 9 the marzette watts ensemble- self titled 10 marion brown- in sommerhausen black artists group- in paries, aries frank wright quartet- uhuru na umoja dr. umezu-seikatsu kojyo iinkai- selftitled cecil taylor- indent part 2 last five are tied. thanks. ben - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:10:16 -0600 From: "The Dikemans" Subject: Videos or Elegy and the Big Gundown This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFDE07.7301D320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm sorry if this has been discussed before but I'm just rejoining, so I = wanted to know if anyone had information on the videos of Elegy and The = Big Gundown. Where you might be able to find them is my main question, = if they are available at all, or if any of you have them. Thanks john - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFDE07.7301D320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm sorry if this has been discussed = before but I'm=20 just rejoining, so I wanted to know if anyone had information on the = videos of=20 Elegy and The Big Gundown. Where you might be able to find them is = my main=20 question, if they are available at all, or if any of you have = them.

Thanks

john

- ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFDE07.7301D320-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:19:26 -0400 (EDT) From: jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu Subject: Re: free jazz underground Hmmm. . . I think this e-mail software just mysteriously deleted my first attempt. Trying again: The Arthur Doyle 4 is in print, and Forced Exposure has copies (www.fe.org). Also, I believe that Sonny's Time Now is currently in print on DIW. If you check the FE website, I bet you may find that some others have been reissued recently too (cf. "Nipples"). Hope that helps, Jesse Quoting ObviousEye@aol.com: > here are thurston moore's top ten free jazz underground records... > the only one i have is Brotzmann's "nipples"...if anyone has any clues to > obtaining any of these please email me. > > 1 dave burrell- echo > 2 milford graves and don pullen- nommo > 3 arthur doyle- plus 4-alabama feeling > 4 sonny murray- sonny's time now > 5 the ric colbeck quartet- the sun is coming up > 6 john tchicai and cadentia nova danica- afrodisiaca > 7 rashied ali and frank lowe- duo exchange > 8 peter brotzmann sextet/quartet- nipples (got it) > 9 the marzette watts ensemble- self titled > 10 marion brown- in sommerhausen > black artists group- in paries, aries > frank wright quartet- uhuru na umoja > dr. umezu-seikatsu kojyo iinkai- selftitled > cecil taylor- indent part 2 > > last five are tied. > > thanks. > > ben > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:27:43 -0600 From: smokey@laplaza.org Subject: Knit Net and one great Chicago band I've been thinking for awhile about writing something about the history of live video on the Knitting Factory site. From being a very poor little single stationery cam that was on 24/7, "focused" on the Main Stage (VERY exciting nonetheless to one who's never been to NY, let alone the KF), to whatever the hell it is now. Sorry guys, but it's just slipped lower and lower in my eyes. The sound always was in and out, the picture bad, the camera not always pointed at the players, and you never knew when it would all work, but it sure was something to see the crew setting up the lighting and then the equipment, the the band trickling in one by one, maybe Bill Laswell or Marc Ribot or Masada warming up - I get goosebumps just remembering... I made a lot of audio recordings in those early daze, including the events (directly caused by Mr. Z hisself, bless'm) that led to closing the cam down for a few months. I can see why it maybe wasn't nice to be looking and listening in on conversations with friends family and band members - the soundcheck that did it for Zorn I think was the one where Dave Douglas said he was having trouble with his lip and Zorn adjusted the setlist for him (the subsequent performance was still incredible, as usual, but that was the night Zorn threw something over the camera at the beginning of the second set and announced that this performance was only for those present, or something to that effect). The cam was down for weeks and weeks after that incident. When the livecam re-emerged it was sporatic, occassionally with multiple cam angles, often requiring software updates, sometimes exciting, but mostly not there for the shows I was most interested in. By then, of course, it seems Zorn was pretty disgusted with the KF's invasion of his soundchecks and quit playing there altogether for a long time. The Tonic lucked out and became Z's venue of choice. Then came an interminable period where we got a lot of marginal acts(OK, a few jewels, but everything unscheduled, so we never knew when to tune in) "live" on tape, not the bands actually playing on any given night, just a continuous grab bag loop. There's been no way for a long time of knowing who'll be on or when. The excitement of following the KF calendar is gone. Now I see talk of "...KnitTV, which features live webcasts from four Knitting Factory stages nightly, as well as archived performances...". Sounds good, anybody have any luck tuning in? Personally I'd like to see the whole KF site "dirtier", just the facts ma'am, no clever animations and complicated layouts. I understand all the arguments against a full-time web cam(song rights, privacy, etc.), but it was sure fun, and it somehow fit with this kind of "free jazz" thing. I miss it. Ah well, Dan Kuehn aqui en Taos, NM PS Another great Chicago band is Isotope 127(is that the right number?), sort of Miles in the mid seventies - very good stuff. They've got at least three albums out, all way too short. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:47:53 +0100 From: dan hill Subject: Re: Knit Net and one great Chicago band thanks dan (one of the other dans!), for your comments on the live video thang. At 18:27 -0600 24/6/00, smokey@laplaza.org wrote: >Now I see talk of "...KnitTV, which features live webcasts from four >Knitting Factory stages nightly, as well as archived performances...". >Sounds good, anybody have any luck tuning in? nope. but should it be a question of luck? rhetorical. >Personally I'd like to see the whole KF site "dirtier", just the facts >ma'am, no clever animations and complicated layouts. I understand all >the arguments against a full-time web cam(song rights, privacy, etc.), >but it was sure fun, and it somehow fit with this kind of "free jazz" >thing. I miss it. i agree with just about everything you've said here (though i didn't know about the zorn-cam thing!). and with your concluding comment. anyway, there's a million issues in here (i guess speaking as a new media professional kinda guy - ahem) probably not of general interest to the list. but imagine how it would be of general interest to the list if *all of us* could discuss recent gigs at the knitfac? ... it's a shame to see this huge potential not taken as seriously as the musicians and fans take the music. >PS Another great Chicago band is Isotope 127(is that the right >number?), sort of Miles in the mid seventies - very good stuff. They've >got at least three albums out, all way too short. > Isotope 217. there's a spinoff of Tortoise. and they are pretty good too. on the chicago live broadcast tip, there's a pretty good site called supersphere, which has an awesome archive of video recordings of live gigs at various chicago venues. http://www.supersphere.com/Club/Archive/ gigs by the likes of godspeed you black emperor!, tortoise, ui, the ex, nobukaza takemura, the ruins, uri caine, vandermark 5 etc. .... and loads more. it's good. cheers, dan. - -- - ---+ dan hill [state51] ---+ new reviews on motion [25.6.2000]: < yo la tengo | signer | marc ribot y los cubanos postizos | steve gurley | indo | amon tobin | os mutantes > http://motion.state51.co.uk/ +--- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:49:14 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: free jazz underground In a message dated 6/24/00 7:51:11 PM, ObviousEye@aol.com writes: << here are thurston moore's top ten free jazz underground records... >> just to slightly clarify, this is a list Thurston made for Grand Royal #2, and is not his favorite free jazz records, but his favorite ones which were then impossible to find on LP or on CD. a few of them have since been reissued on CD. in other words, I think rarity is as key a factor as quality in the list. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:43:53 GMT From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: siddhartha/klossowski >From: ObviousEye@aol.com > >Has anyone read "Sade my Neighbor" by Klossowski? Apparently it is a sort >of >analysis of Sade's philosophies...i could be wrong though. It's a fabulous book. Klossowski does a splendid job of reading Sade's impulses from a theoretical standpoint--he elucidates the notions of apathy, perpetual motion, and destruction in Sade and sees transgression within the context of the violence of the social order, the administration of justice, etc. The theory of motion is a key one since it lines up with Nietzsche's idea of the eternal return. What returns is what is active, a transformative affective sense. What does not return is the reactive, that which repeats the old and dead categories. Most people are incapable of becoming active. We could say that having the "ears" to hear Zorn (on at least some occasions) is an active sense. Listening to Kenny G trot out the most banal musical cliches and only being able to cathect with that would be a reactive sense. On the other hand, judging music is as reactive a mode as any other, and it's one in which very few seem to be able to disengage themselves. Sade and Nietzsche were among the first to develop theories of the senses that were not simply reducible to the five senses, and thus they became important for contemporary thinkers of the body. Once one has a theory of affects and of sense, one can begin to take one's leave from the category of judgments. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:23:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: Geert Buelens Subject: SF etc? Hi, I'm in San Francisco until July 4; any must sees (musically, that is) please e-mail me privately thanks geert - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:16:11 +0930 From: "sinkas" Subject: RE: Dying Ground Hi, Just wondering if anyone happened to make a tape of Kang's Dying ground at the recent Gig? Regards, Case - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 18:10:49 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: Zorn article in essential guide to jazz I figured a few people may be interested, Australian jazz magazine "24 Hours" just put together an "Essential Guide To Jazz", listing who they saw as the 75 most important figures in jazz (chronologically). The first listing is King Oliver, the last is Zorn, though the magazine does say that he only just scraped in to the list... - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:43:27 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: dolphymonk!! From: Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) (quoting me) > >'free improv -electronic-whatever' also becomes > >quickly a 'style' where there is nothing creative and just the repetioin > >of those 'incredible sounds', 'wicked rhythmpatterns' etc. > >Just compare the achievements of the new electronic scene with what > >Brian Eno did. (i do not mean to say that the thing is worthless, just > >to put emphasis on the fact that BE changes and fights for the sound) > > The "free improv-electronic-whatever" offers nothing creative and consists > only of repetition? Is this what you mean to say? These performers don't > "fight" for or "change" the sounds? > > Whose work did you have in mind? I did not menage make myself understand... I just meant the great number of drum&bass stuff and d&b-ambient kind of style, which seemed to be very promising few years ago, and has now become a 'style' something not very creative and based on the repetion of known formulas and reciepes. I can't even think of concrete performer, just genral impresssion of the d&b scene. BE started doing interesting thins in the seventies, prefiguring much of what was to come. The new techno-d&b guys seemed to be more radical, but only for a moment: he does intersting things for nearly 30 years now, and the enrgy behind the new guys evaporated (BTW that's the same thing that happend to progrock-fusion guys in middle '70s. the best succeeded to change, of course) > >We see the work on the music, not just a finishede product. And the way i > see it, Barry, > >that's much more interesting. > > I think there is plenty of "work" or "struggle" evident in a recording of > improvised electronic music. Well, I think we just agree. I did not want to dismiss 'electronic musicians' (I'm one of them, anyway...), just wanted to put emphasis on the fact how quickly some way of being 'avant garde' can become your 'style' - a set of tired approaches and techniques that limit your approach to music. And 'improvisation' is often just nothing more then that (and 'radical improvisation' also.) Marcin Gokieli marcingokieli@go2.pl <> Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress" - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:55:09 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Massacre May be obvious, but - IF YOU CAN CATCH THEM LIVE JUST DO IT. I did it on friday, and still am impressed... Marcin Gokieli marcingokieli@go2.pl <> Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress" - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:56:01 EDT From: Eisenbeil@aol.com Subject: Internet Cafe Concert I am writing to let you know about an upcoming gig that I think you would=20 really enjoy. Below are the details. Influences and associations run the=20 range of: Miles Davis, Django Reinhardt, Eric Dolphy, John Coltrane, Jimi=20 Hendrix, Allan Holdsworth, Cecil Taylor, Ornette Coleman, Anthony Braxton,=20 Ravi Shankar, John Zorn. =20 I hope to see you, Bruce FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE BRUCE EISENBEIL QUARTET TO PERFORM AT THE INTERNET CAF=C9 "Eisenbeil plays in a strikingly original style, the aural equivalent of a=20 Jackson Pollack painting, laced with abstract filigree lines and an=20 undercurrent of searching lyricism." --- Downbeat, March 2000 This is NEW jazz. Themes are turned over under sideways down to discover an= =20 escape tunnel to the UNIVERSAL MUSIC STREAM. With the experience that these= =20 musicians have, the music expressed is really something to hear. With Bruce Eisenbeil will be Warren Smith on vibes and marimba, Wilber Morri= s=20 on upright bass, and Lucas Ligetti on drums. On June 28 they will be=20 performing at the Internet Caf=E9 for 2 shows beginning at 9 and 10:30pm. =20= The=20 Internet Caf=E9 is located at 82 East Third Street between 1st and 2nd Ave.=20= =20 We hope that you can attend this concert. WHO: Bruce Eisenbeil - guitar Warren Smith - vibes, marimba Wilber Morris - bass Lucas Ligetti - drums WHERE: Internet Caf=E9 82 East Third Street between 1st and 2nd Ave) 212-614-0747 WHEN: June 28 2 sets: 9 & 10:30pm cover: $5 for more info: www.eisenbeil.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:39:28 -0600 From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: dolphymonk!! >I just meant the great number of drum&bass stuff and d&b-ambient kind of >style, which seemed to be >very promising few years ago, and has now become a 'style' something not >very creative and based on the repetion of known formulas and reciepes. I couldn't say. I haven't been particularly drawn to this style but thanks for the clarification. >I did not want to dismiss 'electronic >musicians' (I'm one of them, anyway...), just wanted to put emphasis on >the fact how quickly some way of being 'avant garde' can become your >'style' A worthwhile thing to emphasize. Matt Wirzbicki - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:45:35 EDT From: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com Subject: Re: Sonic Youth/Stereolab live From: ObviousEye@aol.com << there was also a projection of NYC in various areas running throughout the show. the contrast of the children laughing and running around on the subway with the song "sunday" was dizzying. >> The films were pretty cool. Minimal but effective...a day in the life of NYC. They were done by a filmaker/designer/artist named Chris Habib. He's done a bunch of design work for SY over the years. Thurston told me that the little blonde girl on the subway sequence was his daughter! (Coco Hayley Gordon Moore) Jonathan LaMaster Sublingual Records www.sublingual.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #979 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com