From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #7 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, August 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 007 In this issue: - satchmo Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? Gustafsson Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? Hip Hop Cobra Re: Hip Hop Cobra masada influences Re: Hip Hop Cobra RE: Gustafsson Further into the SY issue. [Not Our] John The Generator Re: [Not Our] John The Generator New Band of Joey Baron Miles Reissues RE: Filmoworks II Cynical Hysterie Hour David Moss - Full House & Dense Band. bad mf, aka bad oedipus, aka Sean Lennon Buying CDs (who it benefits) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:52:42 -0700 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: satchmo Satchmo's Hot 5s and Hot 7s, from the 1920s, are widely acknowledged as his most important and innovative work. Emotionally packed as well. All that I've heard have been great, although I'm partial to his 1928 recordings with Earl Hines (and the Hots). Particular cuts to keep your eye open for include Struttin With Some Barbeque and Weather Vane.... >From: Maurice Rickard >Subject: Favorite Louis Armstrong? >What with the centennial either upon us or coming up, I'm looking for >a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:01:30 -0400 From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? I'm looking for >a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre. Admittedly biased position: Go for the oldest stuff. The work with King Oliver and Earl Hines from 24-32 or so is almost universally excellent. West End Blues from 27 or 28 is widely regarded as one of the most amazingly emotional jazz songs ever. Period. It's on columbia's chronological series number 4. Number 3 of the Hot Fives and Sevens is also excellent and features amazing guitarist Lonnie Johnson. Easiest way to get most (but not everything) of this: Columbia's 4(?) cd box Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. His collaboration with Jimmie Rodgers "Blue Yodel #9" is also a delight. Matt - --- Matt Laferty Department of English, General Literature, & Rhetoric Binghamton University PO Box 6000 Binghamton, NY 13902 607.777.2754 bg60009@binghamton.edu - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:03:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Novak Subject: Gustafsson Hi, I remember Mats Gustafsson and John Butcher being mentioned a while ago here, and though I still don't know anything about Butcher, I've learned a hell of a lot more about Gustafsson by buying "Parrot Fish Eye" which was great and then "Mouth Eating Trees and Related Activities" which is phenomenal. So the question is this: What would you recommend for similar free-improv from any of the "Mouth Eating Trees.." personnel? Also, am highly interested the limited Gustafsson/Hamid Drake disc, "For Don Cherry", but Okka is sold out. Know where I can get it? Thanks much. - ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:10:38 -0400 From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? At 2:28 PM -0500 8/7/00, Steve Smith wrote: > >A bit long-winded, but I hope this is what you had in mind. > Excellent! This gives me a lot to go on. I've actually been quite taken with the Hot 5 and Hot 7 stuff I've heard, and I had just seen that the Legacy box is about to drop. I was leaning toward it, and I'm probably going to take the plunge, as long as the Earl Hines recordings are included. My knowledge of the other periods is sadly trivial, so your guide is a big help. I can dip into those after checking out the Hot 5 and 7 stuff. The Legacy box does indeed seem to have some killer tracks, btw: http://legacyrecordings.com/LouisArmstrong/newreleases.html#Box Any comments on this lineup from the experts on the list? And to address Matt's and Martin's points, having listened with attention to "West End Blues" the other day is what has lit this fire under me. Beautiful. Thanks to everyone who's responded, Maurice - -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:47:44 EDT From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Hip Hop Cobra I couldn't make it to Tonic on the night of this curious line up for a Cobra piece. Anyone care to review? Thank you. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:05:59 -0400 From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re: Hip Hop Cobra Hello OnionPalac, Monday, August 07, 2000, you wrote to me: Oac> I couldn't make it to Tonic on the night of this curious line up Oac> for a Cobra piece. Anyone care to review? Thank you. Well, I cannot write normal review because I know almost nothing about Cibo Matto. But... I was on the first set. It was extremely funny and fun to see all these people on stage. The audience was a strange mix of normal Tonic fans and young girls and boys who tried to dance. The musicians I know were Arto Lindsay, Ben Perowski, Sean Lennon and Sebastian Steinberg. Others were members of Cibo Matto and some guests I never saw before. Perowski played in his usual very straight manner, but this time it was good and I liked it. Lindsay was not playing guitar but making funny sounds only. It was really great. The weird thing was that Lennon couldn't play bass at all. It seemed that he neither knew how to play nor understood the rules of Cobra. But it was not so bad though because there were so many other musicians and sounds. John Zorn was sitting at the table with all these signs and was managing the whole performance. He looked very happy with this music. I think I cannot add something else about it. Sorry. - -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/ - - ------------------------------ Date: 7 Aug 2000 20:05:07 -0000 From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: masada influences Much has been said about the obvious template that Ornette Coleman's groundbreaking quartet provides for the Masada group, but lately I've been listening to Don Cherry's 'Complete Communion' date from 1965 on Blue Note (recently reissued, great sound) and finding it to be the 'long lost' Masada date! Check it out, with the fiery tenor playing of Gato Barbieri (what happened to that guy?) and Henry Grimes bass and Ed Blackwell drums. Another record that I figure had a big influence on Zorn is the Charles Earland soundtrack to 'The Dynamite Brothers' which found the funky 'barbeque' organ playing of Earland moving 'out' with the help from some of the Herbie Hancock 'Sextant' crowd, like Eddie Henderson trumpet, Pat Gleeson synthesisers, and Billy Hart drums. But especially intriguing is the sax and flute playing of Dave Hubbard, anyone know any other dates he's played on? Finally, the best 'new' date I've discovered is from Michael Riessler, a German clarinetist & composer, whose work encompasses jazz, 'new music' & 'world' music, and who has worked with Steve Reich, John Cage, Vinko Globokar, etc. His new CD, entitled 'Orange' on the ACT Music label has him playing in a very unique ensemble with Elise Caron vocals, Jean Louis Matinier accordion, and Pierre Charial, who coaxes the most amazing sounds out of a barrel organ. Riessler has previously worked with Valentin Clastrier who plays the hurdy-gurdy (Palude is the result of this other brilliant collaboration), and one can only be astounded by the electronic sounding timbres that these old instruments are capable of producing. Well worth the effort tracking down these albums.. _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:50:42 -0400 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Hip Hop Cobra Does anyone care to give any input on Sean Lennon? From what I have seen he's not that great. I witnessed "Sean Lennon and Friends" during the Circuit Foundation nights at Tonic. It seemed more like the Yuka Honda show with Yoko Ono's irrepressible orgasm sounds throughout. Yuka definitely ran the show and Sean seemed to be looking to her (and perhaps others) for direction. Even though he wasn't in charge, he still didn't seem to be contributing much to the music. I though it was funny when, after direction from Yoko, he said through the PA to the sound person, "Make sure to have my moth--her mic on... at all times." Dan Hewins NP: Blue Man Group "Audio" (it was a gift from my mom...it's pretty good though) >The weird thing was that >Lennon couldn't play bass at all. It seemed that he neither knew how >to play nor understood the rules of Cobra. But it was not so bad >though because there were so many other musicians and sounds. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:59:48 -0600 From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: Gustafsson >"Mouth Eating Trees.." personnel? i can't remember off hand the personnel here but I'll stick up for "You forget to answer" with Barry guy and Raymond Strid. Matt Wirzbicki - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:44:54 -0500 From: "abulafia" Subject: Further into the SY issue. > "Arthur Gadney" > 4. A THOUSAND LEAVES - This one came after the and the woodshedding of the first few SYR EPs, and strikes me as > both a return to form and a wistful, almost valedictory set from an edgy > group finally easing into middle-aged maturity. I enjoyed this one much > more than I expected to. I must say I find this stament rather hard to understand in that many of the tracks on "A Thousand Leaves" are clearly further developments on the very arrangments on the first two SYR EP's. & as for the "disappointing 'Washing Machine'", i find my self in roughfly the same spot as Jon " I think that Diamond Sea, the epic closer on Washing Machine, is easily the best thing in their entire catalog." More I would say it struck me as the best thing in there entire catolog the first time i heard it. since than I can't make up my mind between that, "Hoarfrost", "SkipTracer", "Hits of Sunshine", "Freecity Rymes", or "NYC Ghost's & Flowers".??!! (or many others on any given day really) This makes me think maybe the split that seems to come up between the SY camps, that is the before-Diamond Sea camp(BDS) & the after-Diamond Sea camp(ADS?) [I make the split at the song not the album because without the song the album would not have been that diffrent from the usual rate of SY forwad progress, & also I dont think that there output since then would look anything like it dose now.] might tell us that SY is simply making albums of a diffrent sort now. In BDS era SY, I can not easaly name my favorite song on the album, i can name the stronger ones. the ones that work the best for me. I think that is because the songs of the BDS era were more of a singular nature accros the album. more variations on a theme. Listen to the structure of 'Silver Rocket' & 'Teenage Riot', both on "Daydream Nation". Pop riff, suddon noise, slowly turned into riff, pop riff. Great stuff, but that idea is carried all through the album. But now in ADS era there albums seem less concerend with reworking the same ground, and more looking to try as many different things as are apropreate. Now this dose make missing the target more likly, but with a band like SY, I think the hit's (in a strickly Platonic since) are more than worth it. It also makes for a more fragmented sounding album, something the ADS album certainly are not. I see this as the cause for the increase in poor revues in the past 5 years, "wahing machine" being in 95'. So I think there albums as a whole piece were more, quote, (make little international quote gesture here) "album like" in the BDS era, and therefor better albums (in the Beatel's since of the word), but that as I started of saying my most common favorite SY "recordings/singles/songs" are mostly form there ADS period. So there you are. "The only thing we have to fear is,... those freaks in the NRA" JG abulafia@i1.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:45:50 -0700 From: "s~Z" Subject: [Not Our] John The Generator Some of you might enjoy the 'John Cage Random Quote Generator' we just activated on the pfMENTUM website: http://www.pfmentum.com/cage.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:48:11 -0700 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: [Not Our] John The Generator PS In case you haven't done the Generator thing, every time you go to that page you get a different quote...or every time you 'refresh'. http://www.pfmentum.com/cage.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:20:21 +0200 From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: New Band of Joey Baron Hello, sorry to raise this topic again, but I had quite some off list replies of people concerning my question where the cd of Killer Joey (new band of joey baron) could be obtained besides at his concerts. Reads below and smile.... Stefan Verstraeten - -----Original Message----- Hi Stefan, Joey is supposed to drop me off copies this week. Also a new cd by Joey's band Down Home w/ Frisell, Arthur Blythe & Ron Carter will also be here in the next week or two. Let us know which you want & we will ship as soon as we get them. Mailing address & credit card info will also help speed up the process. Take care, Bruce from DMG - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:39:26 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Miles Reissues From: Joseph Zitt > As I understand it, "On the Corner" has no extra tracks. But there should be some extra material somewhere in the archieves. Considering the way that music is edited, there should be plenty of that stuff. I just can't wait for the complete '70s Miles Box. As those records were hardly released in USA and Europe, there may be loads of tracks that where unissued anywhere. That brings another question... > Well, while the tracks on the "Big Fun" reissue are in the Bitches > Box, I'm told that the "Great Expectations" on it is several minutes > longer than the boxed edition. I HATE THE WAY THOSE GUYS ARE MAKING MONEY!!! I spent a lot of money on the boxed set, and one of the reasons for it were the 'Big fun' tunes. And now I don't have the most complete version... I hope some of my friends will buy it and i'll be able to cdr it. My version lasts 13:45. Can you check out yours? BTW the extra tunes from the BF sessions on the boxed set are incredible. Soemthing really magical was happening (and those guys are publishing it only now...) Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 14:37:55 -0300 From: "Gustavo Broggi" Subject: RE: Filmoworks II I´ve bought filworks III a couple of weeks ago and it is amazing!!, great cd, strongly recommended Gustavo - -----Mensaje original----- De: Marcin Gokieli Para: Zorn List Fecha: Martes 1 de Agosto de 2000 20:58 Asunto: Filmoworks II >Hi, > I listen recently to Filmowrks II intensively. An incredible album! My >fave Zorn at the moment! >Two questions: >a) What was the film the music is suppposed to illustate like? The info on >the disc are not very extensive. >b) Some similiar JZ records? (maybe Elegy would be the closest i know) >Be well, >Marcin Gokieli >marcingokieli@go2.pl >Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you >are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor > > >- > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:25:08 EDT From: AFPlating@aol.com Subject: Cynical Hysterie Hour Hi all, i just listed my ORIGINAL copy of Cynical Hysterie Hour on Ebay if anyone is interested in this super-rare disc. eBay item 404184962 - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 15:08:56 +0100 From: Stephen Rigg Subject: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band. Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with in the late 70s/early 80s. They both appear to have been reissued on cd by Moers Music, albeit at import price. I would very much appreciate any background info., or simply a hearty recommendation would probably do it. Cheers! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 10:13:05 CDT From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: bad mf, aka bad oedipus, aka Sean Lennon Hewins broke it down: >Does anyone care to give any input on Sean Lennon? From what I have >seen he's not that great...I though it was funny when, after direction from >Yoko, he >said through the PA to the sound person, "Make sure to have my >moth--her mic on... at all times." If there are any among us with extensive knowledge of psychoanalysis, it would be terrific to reconstruct Sean Lennon as Oedipal Warrior. Struggling to slay the father, yet the father is absent: the turn toward the mother is made problematic....well, maybe not. I found BEYOND THE SUN, or whatever his debut was called, a little weak; watching him frolic with Yuka (somewhere, I think it was EmptyV, er, MTV) was a little saccharine for my tastes. He is a child told several too many times that he is creative and that people will care about his contributions. Consequently, he took this as a given. - ----s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 13:36:17 -0400 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Buying CDs (who it benefits) There has been a lot of discussion on this list regarding the morality of copying CDs (and the whole Napster thing). I know that, through the sieve, people like Dave Douglas and Chris Speed, etc., and, I assume, to a larger extent, Zorn benefit from the purchase of one of their CDs (or LPs). Zorn benefiting more so because of his ownership of the record label, Douglas and Speed, etc. benefiting only through the terms of their contracts with the labels. My question is who is benefiting from the sales of Charlie Parker records and compilations? Miles Davis reissue after reissue? I know the answer is "their estate" but somehow that's not good enough for me. I know that the record companies are making and remaking all of these records and I'm sure they're getting a lot out of it. And "their estate" didn't make the music or record it or pay for the recording, it's just related to all of that or left in a will, etc. I realize that people can do what they like with their assets once they pass... It's like passing on an investment. Even though it makes sense to me there is still that lingering feeling that tells me that I shouldn't feel as bad about copying these older records of passed musicians. I don't do it (now) but I get that feeling. Just some thoughts. Dan Hewins - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #7 ***************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com