From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #62 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, September 21 2000 Volume 03 : Number 062 In this issue: - Re: Dave Douglas/Misha Mengelberg 4tet @ Iridium Re: Modernism, Dada, Surrealism (PostModernIsm?) Re: Wittgenstein all of these little things REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long) Re: all of these things burroughs (was: all of these little things) more about zorn, literature & music Re: more about zorn, literature & music Re: Modernism, Dada, Surrealism (PostModernIsm?) Re: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long) Re: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long) Re: burroughs (was: all of these little things) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:03:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Dave Douglas/Misha Mengelberg 4tet @ Iridium Yes, Dan: But this was probably your first time seeing Han. After the second, third, fourth, fifth... time it gets a tiring to have to sit through Han's schtick. Now, before the flames start, I'll say that I consider Han a great drummer who has done some exceptional work on his own, with the ICP, with Brotzmann etc. etc. I'll add that I appreciate humor in music. But Bennink's antics have gone beyond jokes to cheap burlesque. Since his tricks have figured in so many of his reviews, he now seems to think he has to "perform" every time he plays. All the seemingly spontaneous actions described below are part of the standard Han show. It's gotten so that I now describe Bennink as one of those rare drummers who should be heard and not seen. As well, I've watched Han drown out other soloists when he gets into his "show" -- even Misha. Interesting enough, earlier in the month when Han, Misha and Michael Moore played in a sextet at the Guelph Jazz Festival with George Lewis, Joseph Jarman and Leroy Jenkins, not only was he playing relatively quietly, but the schtick was nowhere in evidence. I guess he realized he couldn't screw around with AACMers who, being tough enough to survive in the music business for 30 years plus, weren't going to accept a European minstrel show while they played. Ken Waxman - --- Dan Hewins wrote: . Han is quite a character. He is > one of the craziest drummers I have witnessed. > Before the second > tune he donned a bandanna as a headband which > likened him to a ninja > of sorts. His physical movements and facial > expressions were > hilarious and his playing was superb. He had his > feet up on the > drums at times. He saw a coat hanger hanging from a > wire and took it > down and made like it was flying like an airplane > until it hit a > cymbal and he tossed it behind him. He once made a > moustache for > himself out of the brushes. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:10:06 +1100 From: "Lee, Edgar" Subject: Re: Modernism, Dada, Surrealism (PostModernIsm?) I'd also like to recommend Calvin Tomkins book on Robert Rauschenberg. It is one of the most humourous art books I've read, especially the story of how when Rauschenberg first went to New York he got off at Newark instead when he misheard the conductor, and it took him 3 days to realise. Later when he went back home he found out that his parents had moved towns without telling him. NP Annie Gosfield - Burnt Ivory and Loose Wires - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:21:45 +0200 From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Wittgenstein >> "When I came home I expected a surprise >> and there was no surprise for me, >> so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein > > Where did you get this great quote?! A friend of mine is considering > doing his thesis on the connection between Wittgenstein and > Nietzsche, something about language and morality...?!?! I can't > pretend to understand _Wittgenstein_ that much, but if you have > any suggestions for sources of Wittgensteinian info, my friend could > pass on his gratitude through me to you, or something... The quote is from Wittgenstein's VERMISCHTE BEMERKUNGEN--I don't know the title of the English translation, I'd translate it to "Miscellaneous Comments". It contains numerous notes, comments and thoughts by Wittgenstein which were released posthumously. The interesting thing is that, although Wittgenstein is an Austrian philosopher, the above quote was written in English. There's a webpage on Wittgenstein: http://www.nobunaga.demon.co.uk/htm/witt.htm And here's one containing various papers on various philosophical topics, including some Wittgenstein: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~chalmers/people.html Kind regards, - Chris. ___________________________________________________________________ ** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de ** ** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil ** Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn The Herbie Hancock Mailing List ___________________________________________________________________ "When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:40:11 GMT From: "William York" Subject: all of these little things > >the obvious WS Burroughs [influence] on Zorn > >okay, I have to admit, I've never read any Burroughs, >although hearing of his various literary exploits >makes me curious--so, you have to explain the obvious >part to me... I have started but never finished reading any of his books, but I'm sure the connection would be the endlessly referred to "cut-up" method used in his writing, where he would cut out passages and piece them back (endlessly referred to when critics want to draw some cross-medium parallel to music of Zappa, Zorn, etc.). I probably shouldn't be answering b/c I don't know exactly what process Burroughs used, BUT, if he did this as a random type of thing - just letting it fly and seeing what comes out - then that to me wouldn't seem to have much to do with something like "Spillane" or "Godard" or "Snagglepuss," because that stuff is arranged in a specific order, even if it sounds disjointed or "cut-up." Basically I agree with Patrice R. (even if this is a slightly different point), that music/literature parallels are usually either very tenous or thought up by someone else, hunting for something profound to say, after the fact. On the other hand, if a book inspires somebody to write something good, then that's great too I suppose. WY _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:05:44 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long) 9:30 p.m. Time was when Archie Shepp was the scariest muthafucka in jazz. If Trane was a Sufi mystic, Pharoah a Pentecostal speaker-in-tongues, and Ayler an old-fashioned country preacher (with a splash of the Salvation Army), then Shepp was something altogether more sinister: part Malcolm X in his spiritual-but-angry polemics, part Elijah Muhammad in his clear-eyed, patiently declaimed denunciation of a social order gone awry. But Shepp also had the sexiest tenor growl this side of Ben Webster, making his radical agenda all the more enticing. No more on either count, it seems... but don't count Shepp out just yet. As has been reported over and over again, things ain't what they used to be. Still, one might hold out hope for a reunion of Shepp with one of his most potent and engaging collaborators of his glory days, the seemingly born-again trombonist Roswell Rudd, who's on quite a streak of late with his twisted showband Broad Strokes and his renewed acquaintance with Steve Lacy just issued on Verve. (Shepp and Rudd meet once again at the Jazz Standard in New York City this week, in the company of trombonist and fellow late '60s survivor Grachan Moncur III, backed by the vintage avant-rhythm dream team of Reggie Workman and Andrew Cyrille.) And honestly, one would not be entirely disappointed. "We're gonna start things off the same way we did in San Francisco back in 1966," Rudd stated brightly in introducing "Keep Your Heart Right," the tune which did indeed open Shepp's 1966 album 'Live in San Francisco.' "Give me a little reverb in my mike," muttered Shepp. And on immediate evidence, this might have seemed to set the tone for the entire set: Rudd bold, effusive, excitable; Shepp seemingly blurred and rendered ghostly by the amplified echoes his requested reverb created. At times, Shepp's sound was indeed lost within Rudd's - sometimes due to similarity of timbre, but more often due to the trombonist simply overpowering his partner. And yes, let it be said here that Shepp's embouchure does indeed look awkward and even painful, and his sound is thinner by far than the trademark arrogant swagger for which we know him. BUT. Shepp's still got ideas and, given some time to warm up, he can still execute them much better than naysayers might have you believe. While he couldn't match Rudd's ebullience with windpower on the opener, when he moved to piano he was more than merely comfortable; he was inspired, with angular chord-voicings and an endearing clunkiness that could only call Monk to mind. The next tune, "Steam" (originally heard on the hotly-debated Shepp LP 'Attica Blues'), was a gentle waltz dedicated to a cousin of Shepp's gunned down in his youth. The twin trombones of Rudd and Moncur stated the melody in close harmony and unison, while Shepp tickled the keys delightfully, quoting in his solo a snatch of Randy Weston's "Hi-Fly" before singing (in a lovely, crooning baritone) a brief, touching verse for his relative. Rudd's "Pazuzu" was a feature for Cyrille's insistent jungle rhythms (in the old Ducal sense of the term). Shepp uncorked a long, serpentine tenor solo that proved his instincts - and even his chops, to a large extent - intact, even if his mighty bray has been muted by the passage of time. Rudd followed with a bumptuous solo full of blasting and braying, even quoting "Battle of Jericho." Moncur's solo, by comparison, seemed tentative, rather like he was playing Morse code. Shepp and Rudd continued with a touching piano and trombone duet on "Change of Season" by Herbie Nichols, Rudd noting that Shepp was reading from a newly-printed book of previously unpublished Nichols compositions. The closer, Shepp's "U-Jamaa" (a Kwaanza-inspired tune written for his daughter, originally featured on 'Montreux '75, Vol. 1'), featured another long and roiling tenor solo by Shepp, who moved back to piano to accompany Rudd, but kept his horn at hand to offer commentaries on Moncur's and Cyrille's solos. He also took another pithy piano solo, a snatch of "Softly as in a Morning Sunrise" skittering by. Rudd was clearly getting off on the proceedings, and Cyrille's dramatic momentum drove the whole thing through to its conclusion. Yeah, so I was perhaps born about 25 years too late to have heard Archie Shepp at his prime. (And perhaps you could say that about all five of the artists I heard in this set, though I'd certainly argue the point hotly.) Still, on this night, in this setting, Shepp was well more than a shade of himself in his prime, and often acquitted himself with the depth that only a mature artist can. Moncur sounded tentative all night, it can fairly be said, but the rhythm section was brilliant, both together and singularly, with Workman proving again and again that he was perhaps technically the finest musician on the stage. And Rudd... well, Rudd is playing like he's got his whole life to live all over again and one hell of a fire in his belly, and more's the benefit to those of us who didn't hear him first time 'round. My first time to hear Shepp live, and I don't feel slighted in the least. Go figure. And now, off to Iridium for the second set of Dave Douglas with Misha Mengelberg, Brad Jones and Han Bennink... (Shepp and Rudd are at the Jazz Standard through Sunday, Sept. 24, if you're in the neighborhood. And they're worth hearing.) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Archie Shepp, "Prelude to a Kiss," 'Fire Music' (Impulse) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:08:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: all of these things >>>>> "Sigmund" == Sigmund Nonanima writes: Sigmund> "sergio luque" wrote (that I Sigmund> wrote, etc.): >> escribio con gran aplomo: Sigmund> what does aplomo mean? aplomb Sigmund> (My Spanish is also a little English.) Indeed! - --Steve Berman - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:42:22 +0200 From: patRice Subject: burroughs (was: all of these little things) hi there... i must admit that i also found it a bit hard reading through some burroughs stuff; e.g. naked lunch and the western lands. on the other hand, some of hise earlier works - e.g. queer / junky - i found were quite easy to read. if anyone reading this is interested in finding out about the process behind burroughs' writing, i can recommend the re/search publications book in which he was featured. (bryon gysin and throbbing gristle are in it, too.) patRice np: fields of the nephilim, bbc radio 1 live nr: w. van gulik, irezumi William York wrote: > I have started but never finished reading any of his books, but I'm sure the > > I probably shouldn't be answering b/c I don't know exactly what process > Burroughs used, - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:51:15 +0200 From: Geert Buelens Subject: more about zorn, literature & music Apart from the (obvious) links with 'historical avant-garde' movements (dada etc) Zorn is also interested in current avant-garde literature such as the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry movement. One of the most prominent poets is Lyn Hejinian. She also co-edited Zorn's *Arcana*-book and if I remember correctly, Zorn used one of her texts for his projects. Was that for the New Traditions-Cd? And was it taken from her book *My Life*? thanks geert - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:35:03 -0400 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: more about zorn, literature & music At 11:51 AM 9/21/00 +0200, Geert Buelens wrote: > >Lyn Hejinian. She also co-edited Zorn's *Arcana*-book and if I remember >correctly, Zorn used one of her texts for his projects. Was that for the >New Traditions-Cd? And was it taken from her book *My Life*? She is credited with the texts for Que Tran on the New Traditions album, but the web site says it was an 'original text', which I take to mean written expressly for this project and not previously published. The album doesn't mention any previous publication either. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. - -- Satchel Paige - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:31:08 +0100 From: Nuno Barreiro Subject: Re: Modernism, Dada, Surrealism (PostModernIsm?) Just two words on Dada and music. I had the chance to attend a workshop by Misha Mengelberg this summer (during the Lisbon jazz festival). At one point he refered to the main reasons that attracted him to jazz music (in the 50's). Essentially he saw in jazz a way of moving from the rigid structure of classical music to something with more freedom. His father was a music critic and he would often go to concerts with him (he already lived in Amsterdam). In the intermission of a concert by the Duke Ellington big band, the Duke himself started to play something on the piano which was in the hall of the concert room. The band joined him, member by member, and soon they were all playing in the hall... This was amazing for a student of classical music in the 50's: total freedom. He also refered to the two main sources of inspiration in his approach to music (breaking the structure in many ways): Eric Dolphy and Dadaism. Since Dadaism and Misha Mengelberg have both been recently mentionned in this list I thought I might just had my two cents by relating the two... Best, Nuno Barreiro - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:29:22 -0400 From: "Michael Berman" Subject: Re: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long) > Time was when Archie Shepp was the scariest muthafucka in jazz. =20 Wow. great review. I hope it was published somewhere, it deserves to = be. I haven't seen Archie for a long while (and I'm too young to have = seen his prime too). But when I did it was in Philly. Do you know if = he still teaches there? I'm not sure it was Temple, I think it was a = smaller music college. Does Shepp have any new recordings out? Will = this band put something out? Shepp has long been a hero of mine, but the past decade (or longer) he's = really only put out standards (to my knowledge). This is a good sign he = might be back to play, or at least claim he hasn't faded off. mb - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:51:13 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long) On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:05:44 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: > > 9:30 p.m. > > Time was when Archie Shepp was the scariest muthafucka in jazz. If > Trane was a Sufi mystic, Pharoah a Pentecostal speaker-in-tongues, and > Ayler an old-fashioned country preacher (with a splash of the Salvation > Army), then Shepp was something altogether more sinister: part Malcolm X > in his spiritual-but-angry polemics, part Elijah Muhammad in his > clear-eyed, patiently declaimed denunciation of a social order gone > awry. But Shepp also had the sexiest tenor growl this side of Ben > Webster, making his radical agenda all the more enticing. Thanks a lot Steve for the fantastic review! For a few minutes you almost gave me the feeling that I was there. Patrice (never tired of BLASE, MAGIC OF JU-JU, etc). - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:24:33 -0500 From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: burroughs (was: all of these little things) On Thu, Sep 21, 2000, patRice wrote: >i must admit that i also found it a bit hard reading through some burroughs >stuff; e.g. naked lunch and the western lands. > >on the other hand, some of hise earlier works - e.g. queer / junky - i found >were quite easy to read. Uh...Naked Lunch *is* an earlier work. :) 1959. >if anyone reading this is interested in finding out about the process behind >burroughs' writing, i can recommend the re/search publications book in which >he was featured. (bryon gysin and throbbing gristle are in it, too.) Yes, I find the cut-up extremely similar to Zorn's own jump-cut method of constructing stuff. It's certainly good good reading for anyone interested in the early days of de/reconstructionist art. :) (NP: js bach, musical offering) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | http://www.mp3.com/craque | | | | http://www.metatronpress.com | | http://www.mp3.com/graycode | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #62 ****************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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