From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #77 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, September 29 2000 Volume 03 : Number 077 In this issue: - Roulette TV-NYC Re: Help with a Classical title/recording (No Zorn) Re: Drummers Re: Drummers Re: Best Zorn Albums Subject: Drummers Saxy Bass Wars, Mari/a/on/o, it ain't easy bein' GREEN we ain't all yanks, and an apology from a yank (pun intended) Odp: Drummers Re: Drummers Re: Drummers Re: Drummers Re: Elegy drummers Re: drummers Re: Drummers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:25:54 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Roulette TV-NYC NYC area z-listers with cable might like to know about the premiere tomorrow evening of Roulette TV, on Channel 56 at 11:00. It'll be a weekly event hosted by chanteuse and gadfly Phoebe Legere. The first guest is composer Laetitia Sonami. Don't know who else is scheduled, but if they're selected from Roulette's normal concert roster, it could be a pretty interesting show. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:56:47 EDT From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Help with a Classical title/recording (No Zorn) In a message dated 9/28/00 9:16:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << Could it be Einojuhani Rautavaara's 1977 VIolin COncerto recorded by Elmar Oliveira? >> I believe it is....thanks!!!! Grateful, Tom (who knew this was the list to ask) ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:03:28 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Drummers > > ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: > > if you were to compile a list of the best drum/percussion related or > > percussion dominated records, what would they be, and from what genres? I can sense that this is potentially going to be a long thread. Firstly, it seems that the few people who've posted so far have stuck to solo percussion or percussion ensemble recordings. Is this in fact what you had in mind, ObviousEye? If not, best step in and clarify. And second, since Tom's posted mystery this evening has me in a classical frame of mind, I'll just recommend a couple of classical percussion records that I think are pretty amazing - one of which is essential, the other just a load of fun. If you can still find the album 'Percussion Music' on Nonesuch, that's the essential one. You get the one drop-dead classic of the genre ('Ionisation' by Edgard Varese), interesting works by Henry Cowell, Michael Colgrass and David Saperstein, plus for my money the best piece of music Charles Wuorinen has ever written, his Percussion Symphony, a 40 minute piece featuring three long movements for mostly untuned percussion instruments plus two "Entr'acte" movements that are keyboard percussion transcriptions of a Petrarch setting by Dufay, "Vergine Bella." Another one I'll recommend, though it's less essential, is a collection on the New World label by the Continuum Percussion Quartet, a group of then-Rice University students released about eight years ago. It's got a ripping version of John Cage's 'Third Construction' and Christopher Rouse's tremendously fun 'Ku-Ka-Illimoku,' plus Lou Harrison's Concerto for the Violin with Percussion Orchestra and pieces by Irwin Bazelon, Eugene Kurtz and J. Verplanck. Rouse in particular writes exceptionally well for percussion - in addition to 'Ku-Ka-Illimoku,' I'd recommend his 'Ogoun Badagris' and 'Bonham' (as in John Bonham), though you'll have to look to other recordings to find these. Of course, I studied classical percussion for something like 13 years, so I guess I'm showing a certain prejudice here... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Philip Glass, 'Akhnaten' (CBS Masterworks) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:25:57 -0400 From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Drummers At 5:05 PM -0400 9/28/00, ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: >I am interested in the zornlist's opinion on drummers/drumming. if you were >to >compile a list of the best drum/percussion related or percussion dominated >records, >what would they be, and from what genres? Ben-- I'll branch out a bit from what people have been saying, to delve into more, uh, rock and non-obscure choices. When I think of great drummers, or drummers I'd listen to anytime, I think of these: Rock: Damon Che, of Don Caballero. Hard math rock, for lack of a better term, the Don used to be a quarted from Our Steel City, but mostly moved to Chicago when the cheap funky artists' apartments in the best part of town were torn down. (Don Caballero's not a person; it's the name of the band.) Haven't heard the new one, American Don (a trio, now--except for Damon, almost the same band as Storm&Stress), but the first three are _very_ good. I've seen 'em live several times, and Damon is in fact human. He has the usual number of arms/legs--but he attacks the kit like a young Elvin Jones--he nails his kit to the stage before sets. He plays _around_ the beat, surprisingly able to leave spaces in some extremely dense playing. Billy Ficca of Television, particularly on _Marquee Moon_. Very inventive, lively playing You can definitely hear the guy thinking. Michael Dahlquist of Silkworm. He's been refining his stuff of late, but the two CDs they put out in '94 (_In the West_ and _Libertine_) have some amazing moments. I'm blown away by the songwriting, too. Okay, so not terribly avant garde. How 'bout Elvin Jones on _Coltrane Live at Birdland_? The coda to "Afro Blue" gives me chills every time. That pretty much empties my head at the moment, but I may think of more... - -Maurice - -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:50:19 EDT From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Zorn Albums Seems like SPY VS. SPY gets mentioned very infrequently on the list. Tho for pure visceral pleasure, it's one of my favorite albums period. Jerry B. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:58:55 EDT From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: Subject: Drummers I don't have terribly broad experience in this area. But two drum albums I've been listening to and enjoying quite a bit lately are the Hamid Drake/Michael Zerang duo TOUCH THE SUN (I may not have the title exactly right) and Guenter Sommer's SAECHISCHE SCHATHULLE. Both are pure drums and extremely rhythmic (almost to the point of being melodious) but adventurous nonetheless. OKKA announced a new Drake and Zerang collaboration a while back--anyone know the status of that project?? Jerry B. > I am interested in the zornlist's opinion on drummers/drumming. if you were > > to > compile a list of the best drum/percussion related or percussion dominated > records, - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:38:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: Saxy Bass Wars, Mari/a/on/o, it ain't easy bein' GREEN William Crump wrote: > vs. Motorhead Sherwood/Roy Estrada! beautiful! thank you! how about: vs. Coltrane/Garrison (no one thought of that yet?!) vs. Eric Dolphy/Richard Davis (for the latter, I'm only going on Alone Together--1963, Jazz World, the album: Sound--but that track alone is enough to put them in the...uh...wars. can we just call it jam session or something? oh! bleedin haht ovah heah! but seriously) josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) wrote: >Hello, Hello! >"Three For Shepp" on Impulse. Shepp doesn't play on >this record, however, though he is pictured on the >cover with Brown. okay, NOW I remember--all my good music is in storage, and I put the CD cases in there, too >...to answer Sigmund's question about Nov. voting, I >must say that I'll probably go with Nader and not >ruin my track record of protest voting. amen and stuff, brutha--and thanks for puttin it out there. Nader is definitely the only sane, original, democratic, free-from-corporate-fingerprints-in-the-rectum candidate (although the press, and even some self-proclaimed, so-called, actually centrist LIBERALS would say he's crazy--???) and I'm pretty sure music lovers wouldn't want Tipper within 500 yards of the white house (I'm getting queezy just thinkin about it...oh shit, wait a minute!), and Bush/Cheney... okay, nevermind oh! and Charlie Mariano is also on a Rabih Abou-Khalil disc, although I can't remember the name of it...anyone have any opinions on this guy? I personally think he's great--Rabih I'm talking about (although I love Mariano, of course)--even if he does tend to repeat himself in his composition He's also had Sonny Fortune, Milford Graves, Howard Levy, and Steve Swallow on his albums. anyway, ok. Sigmund np:pn:np:pn:np:pn nr:rn:nr:rn:nr:rn (Derrida: Spurs: Nietzsche's Styles...I'm trying) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:59:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: we ain't all yanks, and an apology from a yank (pun intended) Sorry, WaxMan (affectionate, not satirical, because neither would be particularly funny), Oh man, I really gotta apologize for that one, the whole U.S. November election thing--I don't know why I didn't even consider those on the list fortunate enough not to live...from where I'm typing not that's it's much of an excuse, but I'm averaging 4.5 hours of sleep a night this week... anyway, sorry for the one or two messages that already got out about the u.s. elections, and I understand that u.s. politics are shoved down the throats of most people in the world (although it makes me wonder who the american govt dispenses more lies to, its own people or the foreign press etc?--sorry!) okay, I'm backing off again, I apologize to those ineligible to vote in the u.s. etc. (please don't be mad /. \ \. / that's supposed to be a contrite face) shitkickin sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:27:14 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Drummers From: > I am interested in the zornlist's opinion on drummers/drumming. if you were > to > compile a list of the best drum/percussion related or percussion dominated > records, I'll put some classics of drumming, and two quite recent releases Well, let's start with Igor Stravinsky - 'L'histoire du soldat' One of the most incredible pieces of music. The 'devil' part of the drum (there are 2 drummers, if i remember correctly) is enldlessly fascinating. Then let's move to Miles Davis 'Filles de kilimajaro' The most abstract of his recordings (?). Tony Williams is god - and that explains his manner of drumming. And let's add Masada 3 gimmel. Joey is also god. His drumming is really incrwedible: intense, intelligent, avoids the abuse (the drummer's sin). And Filmowrks 2 The way drumming (both sampled and live) is used on that incredible record is fascinating. Just listen. Well, that's my top. I'll try to think about some other records later, Marcin Gokieli - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:39:21 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Drummers Jim Black is one of the most intelligent (as well as hugely creative) drummers I have heard, check out any of Dave Douglas' Tiny Bell Trio albums... - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:13:28 GMT+0100 From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: Drummers Here's a list of drummers I like (in no particular order): Terry Bozzio: Of course for what he did with Zappa (The Black Page), but his current solowork is even more compelling. Especially his video with ostinato-type soloing is breathtaking. Elvin Jones: Coltrane's live-albums... Amazing timing. Sean Reinert (Cynic, Death, Aghora), Tomas Haake (Meshuggah): Taking metaldrumming to a higher level. Dennis Chambers: I never listen to fusion anymore, but Chambers is reason enough to do it again. One of the few drummers who combines amazing technical skills with sheer power and intensity. His control of doublebass-drumming is admirable. He also influenced a lot of younger drummers: most notably Rodney Holmes, who played among other with Wayne Shorter's group including David Gilmore (once in Lost Tribe). Gary Novak: Brilliant on Allan Holdsworth's latest effort listen to 'The Drums Were Yellow', an ode to Tony Williams), and making Alanis Morrisette more a joy to listen to. I remember David Letterman making the remark especially her drummer was very good when they were quest artists. Gene Lake/Jojo Mayer: The drummers of Screaming Headless Torsos. Jim Black: His voicings on the drumset are beautiful. For me he's one of the best musicians in general. Jake Mandell: Well he isn't a drummer, but the way he uses rhythm in his pieces says, that if he had the skills to play (and maybe he has), he would be an excellent drummer. Jeroen - ---------------------------------------- Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ---------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:17:15 +0200 From: patRice Subject: Re: Drummers ben wrote: >>and who are the best drummers, in the region of innovation/technicality? >>this is all opinion based of course... when it comes to innovation/technique, i can only second jeroen de boer's recommendation: terry bozzio. the things he pulls off on his (huge) drumkit are simply incredible. his technique is from outer space. terry has been pursuing his very unique way for years and years, resulting in his own so-called "signature" drum heads, sticks, cymbals, special drums and so-called sound enhancers. no to mention his unique style! his four-way coordination is simply outstanding. if you're looking for something mind-blowing, then i can recommend his most recent solo cd: - - drawing the circle absolutely fantastic on a playing-level. it's hard to believe, but true (!), that it's all recorded live with no over-dubs by one single drummer. usually sounds as if there were at least two of them... the only thing i don't like about bozzio's recent works is when he actually plays in bands. somehow, i personally feel, his drumming just doesn't fit in anywhere - it usually comes off as starting to give a bit of a "wank-y / show-off" kind of impression. which, of course, it isn't! it's simply terry's unique playing approach/style. but still, it just somehow doesn't fit in in a band setting. (the exception *maybe* being "the lonely bears"; though i must admit that their music never really moved me emotionally.) patRice np: var=E8se, complete works nr: duckworth, talking music / samuel, olivier messiaen - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:59:14 GMT From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Elegy Hello, >I noticed recently that George Lucas AND David Lynch are thanked in >the >liner notes of Elegy. WHY? The only connection between the two >I know is >that Lynch was asked to direct The Empire Strikes Back. But >he "didn't do >sci-fi" (Dune?). Any way, if any one knows the >connection to each other >and to Elegy I would really like to know. >Thanks David Slusser has worked for both of them doing sound editing on their films. I don't think they had anything directly to do with "Elegy". ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 06:24:22 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: drummers while I always try to avoid directly recommending Erstwhile titles (at least= =20 on-list), no matter how good I think they are, in the context of the drummer= s=20 thread, I feel compelled to mention my next release, G=FCnter M=FCller/L=EA=20= Quan=20 Ninh-La Voyelle Liquide. it's 75 minutes from two of the most interesting and subtle percussionists=20 the improv world currently has to offer, and has been on more or less=20 constant play here the last few months. it's not all percussion, there's=20 quite a bit of electronics also, but I still thought it was relevant. it'll=20 be out in about three weeks. I could also suggest any number of other M=FCller and/or Ninh records=20 (especially Ninh's solo disc, Ustensiles (For 4 Ears), but I think this may=20 be their best work yet. anyone heard Masahiko Togashi's Rings, a solo percussion CD from 1975, which= =20 was just reissued? I've been hearing good things about that, but haven't=20 heard it yet myself. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:59:12 GMT From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: drummers >anyone heard Masahiko Togashi's Rings, a solo percussion CD from 1975, > >which was just reissued? I've been hearing good things about that, but > >haven't heard it yet myself. What about the Han bennink solo discs? I'm curious about them... ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:07:36 -0300 From: "J.A.Bueno" Subject: Re: Drummers My favorites Susie ibarra : wondefull and unique,she`s really something special .Women sensitivity on a drum set Hamid Drake : Powerfull and intense .Just experince any concert specially with William Parker on bass Jim Black: Just incredible,maybe the most creative of drummers i `ve ever seen. Also i wan`t to mention Fritz Hauser , incredible technique ,tuning and creativity Jeroen de Boer wrote: > Here's a list of drummers I like (in no particular order): > > Terry Bozzio: > Of course for what he did with Zappa (The Black Page), but his > current solowork is even more compelling. Especially his video with > ostinato-type soloing is breathtaking. > What about Vinnie Colaiuta ,his work in Shut up and Play yer guitar is astonishing. Also i don`t want to forget Bill bruford . Antonio - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #77 ****************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com