From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #157 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, November 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 157 In this issue: - Re: Fred Frith mailing list Jim Black is a Rock Star Re: New Variations ? Milford Graves-Stories new at Adventures In Sound FOOTLOOSE Dillinger Escape Plan (was Jim Black is a Rock Star) Penguin guide... Re: Drummers [reprise] Re: Drummers [reprise] Der Rote Bereich Re: tWisT Re: FOOTLOOSE Re: Dillinger Escape Plan (was Jim Black is a Rock Star) Re: New Variations ? Re: Penguin guide... special offer on Bobby Previte's web site... Re: New Variations ? Re: Re: New Variations ? Now that she's unlurked (was Re: New Variations ?) Re: Now that she's unlurked (was Re: New Variations ?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:11:49 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Fred Frith mailing list At 04:38 PM 11/7/00 GMT, Arthur Gadney wrote: >Are any of you people alo on the Fred Frith mailing list? It seems totally >dead! I can't post or do anything. Anybody know what's up? They've been having a lot of spam problems, and one of the suggestions was to configure the list so that only subscribers could post to it. Although I don't *know* anything, I suspect that they're trying to get something worked out to keep the spam away. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. - -- Satchel Paige - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:44:12 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benton Subject: Jim Black is a Rock Star Arthur was asking... > Does he play in anything rock or harder? At one part of his solo he > played a short *really* powerfull beat, almost punk. I'd like to hear > him do more of that. Any recommendations? Check out Alasnoaxis, Jim's freshly released debut recording as a leader on Winter&Winter. The disc is all over the place, genre-wise, but there are some portions that rock as hard as anything I'd care to listen to (though Steve "Morbid Cannibal Angel Corpse" Smith might say differently of course). As visions of a metal band of downtown all-stars dance through my head... - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 13:50:18 -0800 From: "Daryl Loomis" Subject: Re: New Variations ? From what I can tell, the numbered variations are fairly direct arrangement= s of Bach. The others inspired by. Good album though. I like it more = than I thought I would. Daryl Loomis >>> "Rob, the Belgian guy" 11/07 1:01 PM >>> Zorn-agains, Uri Caine's Goldberg Variations, ok, Bach's compositions. Are all the = songs based on Bach? Even the one called "Vivaldi" and "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen"? I'm confused. Help me out ;) Greetings, Rob@llaert.NU ________________ www.rob.allaert.com=20 "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 17:13:11 CST From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Milford Graves-Stories just bought Milford Graves' Stories. wonderful. tracklisting: 1. Optical Inversions 2. Speaking to the Spoken 3. Changeable Changes 4. Territorial Moods 5. Continuous Conversations 6. Evolving Pathways Track Six is exceptionally enlightening. -samuel _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 22:36:24 -0500 From: Lang Thompson Subject: new at Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Up since the last email are: listening lists from Jon Abbey (Erstwhile Records) and Greg Kelley (Nmperign) interview with Eugene Chadbourne by Will York a piece on vallenato, a Columbian accordion music some thrift store finds by Mimi Meyer interview with Roscoe Mitchell review of the Cambodian Rocks album Also recently added are a section of interesting news and a discography of documentary sound. I'm always looking for writers (even previously published pieces are acceptable). Email me directly if you're interested. Thanks, Lang - ------------------------------------------- Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:01:54 EST From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: FOOTLOOSE Does anybody know if/where Paul Bley's FOOTLOOSE is in print? skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:37:01 GMT+0100 From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Dillinger Escape Plan (was Jim Black is a Rock Star) I went to a concert of the Dillinger Escape Plan last weekend, and I think they would be a nice substitute for the 'downtown metal all- stars. I have never witnessed a concert that was as intense and at the same time musically amazing as what I witnessed there. More metal than Prelapse, more jazz than metalbands like Cannibal Corpse or Morbid Angel. Although I don't know why I make these comparisons, because DES absolutely stands on it's own. The only thing I can come up with is a musical thunderstorm that lasts 45 minutes and leaves you grasping for breath. Check these guys out, because they will definitely change your ideas about extreme music.. (Mmmm, what about DES teaming up with someone like Merzbow..) Jeroen > As visions of a metal band of downtown all-stars dance through my head... - ---------------------------------------- Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ---------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:05:15 +0000 (WET) From: Ricardo Reis Subject: Penguin guide... When you get the 5th edition please tell me if they include Jonh Lurie. They didn t on the 4th... thanx, Ricardo Reis "NON SERVIAM" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 05:47:10 EST From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] keith@pfmentum.com writes: > After seeing Han Bennink last week, I feared seeing Jim Black with > Eskelin/Parkins last night would prove anti-climactic. > > Unfounded fear. This was only my second time seeing Black (saw him with Uri Caine's Mahler ensemble a few months ago). He was much more impressive this time. What a great show. I'd actually never heard Eskelin before, but was really impressed with his intensity and style. I was also pleased that the show sold out, particularly after being disgusted that I was one of only two people to show up on Friday to see Hamiet Bluiett. Maybe there's hope for L.A. after all. jeff caltabiano n.p. chico hamilton w/ eric dolphy: original ellington suite - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 05:48:11 EST From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] dan@state51.co.uk writes: > btw, anybody heard the recent vandermark/drake/mcbride record: > "spaceways incorporated: thirteen cosmic standards by sun ra & > funkadelic" (atavistic)? Great album. Has some really beautiful moments (the first and last tunes, in particular) with a lot of heavy funk in between. One of my favorite albums of the year. Vandermark is really onto something. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:41:28 +0100 From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Der Rote Bereich Does anyone know the group "Der Rote Bereich"? On one of their CDs ("2"), Jim Black is the drummer. Any opinions about this CD? I don't really know, what to make of it. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:27:14 +0100 From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: tWisT Tuesday, November 07, 2000, 9:55:16 PM, you wrote: the> Since we're talking 'bout Jim Black. I really like Carlos Bica's "Twist" the> with Jim Black and Frank Möbus on guitar. Carlos plays double bass (what's the> the difference between contrabass/double bass/upright bass?). Anyone else the> got this one? I think it's hard to find in the US? I suppose there are no differences between the instruments. But several years ago I saw an electric upright bass in a concert (But I can't remember the musicians). Anyone knowing details about this instrument? PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 08:49:07 -0500 From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: FOOTLOOSE go to gemm.com and you will see over a dozen vendors selling this cd George Scala > Does anybody know if/where Paul Bley's FOOTLOOSE is in print? > > skip h > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:00:01 EST From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Dillinger Escape Plan (was Jim Black is a Rock Star) In a message dated 11/8/00 4:38:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl writes: << I went to a concert of the Dillinger Escape Plan last weekend, and I think they would be a nice substitute for the 'downtown metal all- stars. I have never witnessed a concert that was as intense and at the same time musically amazing as what I witnessed there. More metal than Prelapse, more jazz than metalbands like Cannibal Corpse or Morbid Angel. Although I don't know why I make these comparisons, because DES absolutely stands on it's own. The only thing I can come up with is a musical thunderstorm that lasts 45 minutes and leaves you grasping for breath. Check these guys out, because they will definitely change your ideas about extreme music.. (Mmmm, what about DES teaming up with someone like Merzbow..) >> Most agreed. Meshuggah is another similar tributary of that river. I think they've been mentioned before here, actually. - -matt mitchell - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:06:58 EST From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: New Variations ? In a message dated 11/7/00 4:26:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rob@llaert.NU writes: << Uri Caine's Goldberg Variations, ok, Bach's compositions. Are all the songs based on Bach? Even the one called "Vivaldi" and "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen"? I'm confused. Help me out ;) >> Essentially, it seems to me that there are some that are relative 'straightforward' readings, but the link of pretty much the whole album to the Goldberg Variations conceptually is tenuous at best, I'd say. Not to mention the fact that he does not even touch some the variations, and most of those that were 'inspired' actually seem to have nothing whatsoever linked to the Goldberg; they actually seem more an attempt to show how 'broad-minded' and 'versatile' he is, and they even fail at doing that. Actually, I kind of feel that the album is embarrassing, and almost insulting. A smart business move, though; he definitely does seem to be cashing in, touring a 40-piece choir across Europe, etc. - -matt mitchell - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:12:35 -0000 From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Penguin guide... No John Lurie. Or David Torn or Mark Isham's Silent Way Project or Bill Bruford's Earthworks. But big AMM, Derek Bailey sections and the Chicago Underground Duo/Trio are in. "Jazz" gets harder and harder to define. First spotted error: Two different reviews (with differing star ratings) of "Towards The Margins" by the Evan Parker ElectroAcoustic Ensemble. Shall I tell them?;-) First time I've bought this after years of library consulting. Looking forward to discovering more great music through it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ricardo Reis To: Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 10:05 AM Subject: Penguin guide... > > When you get the 5th edition please tell me if they include Jonh > Lurie. They didn t on the 4th... > > thanx, > > Ricardo Reis > > "NON SERVIAM" > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:47:07 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: special offer on Bobby Previte's web site... Finally some activity on Bobby Previte's web site. Under the name "chance", Bobby makes the following offer: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "LIMITED EDITION CD OFFER This is the first in a series of CD's which be sold only on the web. Each CD is a highest quality recording by Bongo Dali and Key Command, collecti- vely known as Swami Late Plate. These recordings will be collectors items as quantities will be limited. Each CD is hand signed by the artists. CD number one, "CANTO I" is available now. Click below to download a sample. [buttons to select among three samples] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Does anybody know about this "Swami Late Plate"? Thanks, Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:20:06 -0500 From: "michelle mercer" Subject: Re: New Variations ? I'm usually a list lurker, a passive beneficiary of your knowledgeable discussions. But now the opportunity to play Mr. Caine's apologist has finally seduced me into posting. In full disclosure I should probably mention that I've reviewed Caine's Variations for publication a couple times. What it is: The original Goldberg Variations is a solo piano piece based on a catchy 32-bar aria and composed of thirty inventive treatments of that theme. Employing Bach’s own musical methods, Caine selected some of the original thirty variations and interspersed them with over thirty more of his own fabrication. The way I hear it: Caine found sure footing in Bach’s theme and variations model, which is not such a far cry from a jazz chart’s format. Caine’s variations, no matter how far-flung, are almost always within reach of Bach’ s original 32-bar harmony—but as a jazz musician Caine is accustomed to improvising over a head’s succession of prescribed chords. So the 32-bar harmony is the link to the original. If Caine's dizzying genre shifts can obscure this basic underlying pattern, repeated listenings might reveal how Caine keeps his stylistic peculiarities under formal control. Caine does sometimes seem to expect his listeners to be musicologists: some knowledge of the source composition—and of Bach’s entire oeuvre—is almost requisite for really meaningful listening. I didn't get it until I'd listened to Caine's variations while I followed along with Bach's score. But Caine told me he hoped you might enjoy the parodies of Rachmaninoff and Mozart Variations as individual tunes, even if you don't know what's being sent up, or how those Variations conform to Bach's harmonic structure. No matter how you hear the recording, I don't think there's anything embarrassing about any one of the variations; he pulls off all styles pretty capably. But maybe Matt means that Caine's display of his own broad stylistic conversance amounts to a kind of embarrassment of riches? Finally, mercenary motives would have necessarily figured into this project's recording, and its release during a Big Bach anniversary year is no coincidence. But that's as much Stefan Winter's business as it is Caine's. And the performing choirs on tour are typically local pick-up groups. Michelle - -----Original Message----- From: Nudeants@aol.com To: Rob@llaert.nu ; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: Re: New Variations ? >In a message dated 11/7/00 4:26:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rob@llaert.NU >writes: > ><< Uri Caine's Goldberg Variations, ok, Bach's compositions. Are all the songs > based on Bach? Even the one called "Vivaldi" and "Nobody knows the trouble > I've seen"? I'm confused. Help me out ;) >> > > >Essentially, it seems to me that there are some that are relative >'straightforward' readings, but the link of pretty much the whole album to >the Goldberg Variations conceptually is tenuous at best, I'd say. Not to >mention the fact that he does not even touch some the variations, and most of >those that were 'inspired' actually seem to have nothing whatsoever linked to >the Goldberg; they actually seem more an attempt to show how 'broad-minded' >and 'versatile' he is, and they even fail at doing that. > >Actually, I kind of feel that the album is embarrassing, and almost >insulting. A smart business move, though; he definitely does seem to be >cashing in, touring a 40-piece choir across Europe, etc. > >-matt mitchell > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:23:05 EST From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: New Variations ? MIchelle -- That was extremely well-said. Matt in the past has expressed displeasure about Uri's discs, a few bordering on attacks on his (Uri's) integrity. At most, I think Uri should probably have indicated what the more far-flung ideas were based on. It would have stopped a lot of people from saying he wrote stuff that had no connection to Bach. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 15:30:42 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Now that she's unlurked (was Re: New Variations ?) michelle mercer wrote: > I'm usually a list lurker, a passive beneficiary of your knowledgeable > discussions. I advise everyone to take a moment and read Michelle's lucid review of Cecil Taylor and Tony Oxley in this week's Village Voice; she was at the same set as me, Ken and Jon and was the journalist I mentioned who laughed out loud with me at one point, as I mentioned in my own post. Go here: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0045/sotc.shtml Scroll down past the Gary Lucas review to find Michelle's piece. Oh, wait, this is the Zornlist. READ the Gary Lucas piece and then keep going. Michelle's insightful New York Times feature on Uri Caine, for which I seem to remember posting a link here when it was new, is still on the Times website. But unfortunately, if you missed it, it's now in the archives and will cost you $2.50 to retrieve. Go to your library and look up the September 17 issue instead. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:41:28 -0500 From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Now that she's unlurked (was Re: New Variations ?) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Smith" > Michelle's insightful New York Times feature on Uri Caine, for which I seem to > remember posting a link here when it was new, is still on the Times website. > But unfortunately, if you missed it, it's now in the archives and will cost you > $2.50 to retrieve. Go to your library and look up the September 17 issue > instead. If anyone really wants a copy, I could e-mail it to you. I get free lexis-nexus at school. Reply off-list, of course. - -Jesse - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #157 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com