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Zorn List Digest      Thursday, November 16 2000      Volume 03 : Number 167



In this issue:
-
       Re: Galas and Dresser?!?!
       Re: Ninh/Rainey/Kelley
       Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero
       Odp: Watch out for Pat Thomas
       Never again Zorn
       New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas
       Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas
       Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas
       Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas
       Re: Never again Zorn
       Re: Never again Zorn
       European On-line shps
       Re: European On-line shps
       prepiano Cage match (RE: question)
       Re: prepiano Cage match (RE: question)
       RE: prepiano Cage match (RE: question)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:29:58 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Galas and Dresser?!?!

On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:23:40PM -0500, Drivymovie@aol.com wrote:
> I was actually wondering this myself, but when I posted the question on the 
> Diamanda Galas list, no one knew who the fuck Mark Dresser was, let alone, if 
> there was any collaboration between the two.  I do know that they were/are 
> good friends, and have at least played together in the past, but I'm not sure 
> if any of it was ever documented (nothing was listed on Dresser's 
> discography).

A quick look via search engines brings up several mentions of their
having played together in the '70s, with Galas doing piano rather than
vocals. But no mention of any recordings.

- -- 
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 06:09:00 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ninh/Rainey/Kelley

I don't feel too comfortable reviewing a show I set up, but I do have a few 
things to add to Brian's nicely written review:

<<He utilizes it both as an object to batter with all manner of devices
(including stones, gongs, wires, marbles, cymbals, bows, styrofoam and
Tibetan bowls)>>

plus a giant pine cone, which ended up disintegrated by the end of the set.

<<I had heard each of them last month (in different bands, no?) in Boston.>>

yes, they played separately in Autumn Uprising. this was their NYC debut as a 
duo.

<<it struck me that performances which depend to this degree
on subtlety and which are often as quiet as this was, are far more
readily appreciated when, as in Tonic, one can sit a few feet away in a
quiet space and capture every little nuance.>>

it was really exciting for me to hear how quiet Tonic was. during the softer 
parts of Ninh's set, there was complete and total silence except for the 
music. throughout the night, the audience, although not large, was incredibly 
receptive, making me feel like there's an audience for this music slowly 
building in NYC.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:36:22 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero

>From: JonAbbey2@aol.com

><<From the "Last Concert" CD which is probably *the* most
>intense unlistnable noise CD I have ever heard, to "Null & Void" which has
>some really beautiful quiet parts, or the minimalist "Consume Red" to the
>ultra eclectic genre marathon "Plays Standarts">>
>
>it's funny that you call Last Concert unlistenable noise and Consume Red
>minimalist, since the bulk of Last Concert is a live performance of Consume
>Red.

This has quickly become my favorite live jazz improv recording of all.  
Absolutely brilliant and powerful.  But Consume Red is the best thing Otomo 
has done anyway IMHO.

><<Will this never end? I actually thought this scene was more or less dead 
>by
>now. How much more to be said with only sinewaves?
>Seems everyone and his mother is doing this stuff with their powerbooks,
>these days...>>

>the real question, if you ask me, is "how much more to be said with
>saxophones?"

A lot's been said thus far.  An awful lot.  But I happen to agree.  If the 
avant-garde itself has anything new to say, the space is and will be in 
electro-acoustic improv.  One place to look for the saxophone in all this is 
in Evan Parker's "Live at Les Instants Chavires" which I bought last night.  
It's great to see Parker open to this kind of electronic 
manipulation--making the saxophone do much more than what it's designed to 
do.  And as for the sax, an instrument I continue to love, nothing for me 
will ever equal the urgencies of the "freedom principle" of the great Actuel 
artists and elsewhere of the late 60s and early 70s.  A David Ware inherits 
this tradition and does so very well, but he doesn't have the same 
sensibility, the same urgency.  The chops are there, the feeling is not, for 
me at least (I can only but speak for myself after all).  Ayler, Braxton, 
Coltrane, and Dolphy are for me "gods."  Spare me "truth," please, but don't 
take away my "gods."
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:13:21 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: Watch out for Pat Thomas

BTW, that reminds me a sad story about another band called skeleton crew:
some south-us rock band , doing a cover of 'i'm the walrus'.... Anybody 's
got the disc? Disaster...
Marcin Gokieli
marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:32:45 -0800
From: "Fag music" <pattonsucks@37.com>
Subject: Never again Zorn

Recently,
       I listened to the song ''Never Again'',by Zorn.Is it just me,or this song 
has a lot of influence from Masami Akita(aka Merzbow)?Is there any relation to 
Akita and Zorn???Did they play together?Will they????
Noises,
Oersted





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- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:46:58 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas

Wanted to drop some advance word on upcoming recordings by Bill Frisell,
Matthew Shipp and Dave Douglas, mainly to clear up the rumors that have
been floating around, some of which I've contributed to.  Think of it as
a tantalizing act of attrition.

1. Bill Frisell's next release on Nonesuch, 'Blues Dream,' is due out on
January 16.  It features 18 mostly short but compositions for a septet
of himself, Billy Drewes (sax), Ron Miles (trumpet), Curtis Fowlkes
(trombone), Greg Leisz (pedal steel, lap steel, National steel guitar,
Scheerhorn resonator guitar, mandolin), David Piltch (bass) and Kenny
Wollesen (drums, percussion).  The trio album with Dave Holland and
Elvin Jones previously mentioned will be released later in the year,
probably in the fall.

2. Matthew Shipp's newest for Thirsty Ear's Blue Series, 'Matthew
Shipp's New Orbit,' is also due on January 16.  It's a unified cycle of
austere and poetic music, like an extended prayer, played by Wadada Leo
Smith (trumpet), William Parker (bass) and Gerald Cleaver (drums).  Less
Cecil Taylor, more Paul Bley.

3. Dave Douglas has corrected my earlier statement regarding his release
schedule: Witness will indeed be his next RCA Victor release, coming in
May or June.  The Trisha Brown trilogy will also likely be released
sometime next year, but may be released as a "soundtrack" to upcoming
performances rather than treated as one of Dave's "jazz" releases.  In
other words, Witness will be the third of the four albums he's
contracted to release, but the Trisha Brown disc might NOT be considered
the fourth.  We'll see.

Back to your previously scheduled programming.

Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:42:45 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas

In a message dated 11/15/00 6:49:33 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes:

<< Matthew Shipp's newest for Thirsty Ear's Blue Series, 'Matthew
Shipp's New Orbit,' is also due on January 16.  It's a unified cycle of
austere and poetic music, like an extended prayer, played by Wadada Leo
Smith (trumpet), William Parker (bass) and Gerald Cleaver (drums).  Less
Cecil Taylor, more Paul Bley. >>

has Matt stated publicly yet what exactly he was talking about a couple of 
years ago when he said repeatedly that he was retiring from making 
recordings, yet they've continued to flow fairly unabated? just curious. 

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:47:29 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas

on 00.11.15 19:42, JonAbbey2@aol.com at JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/15/00 6:49:33 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes:
> 
> << Matthew Shipp's newest for Thirsty Ear's Blue Series, 'Matthew
> Shipp's New Orbit,'
> 
> has Matt stated publicly yet what exactly he was talking about a couple of
> years ago when he said repeatedly that he was retiring from making
> recordings, yet they've continued to flow fairly unabated? just curious.

He changed his mind. Happens to the best of us.

I didn't believe it (was possible) for a single moment.

RL

- ----------
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Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN.
- --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--
Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

UPDATE *June 25*, 2000:
Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc.
***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:18:32 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas

Rick Lopez wrote:

> on 00.11.15 19:42, JonAbbey2@aol.com at JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 11/15/00 6:49:33 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes:
> >
> > << Matthew Shipp's newest for Thirsty Ear's Blue Series, 'Matthew
> > Shipp's New Orbit,'
> >
> > has Matt stated publicly yet what exactly he was talking about a couple of
> > years ago when he said repeatedly that he was retiring from making
> > recordings, yet they've continued to flow fairly unabated? just curious.
>
> He changed his mind. Happens to the best of us.

Well, there's a LITTLE more to it than that.  According to Shipp, he "retired"
from making new records because he had enough stuff out on the market.  He also
made certain noises about having "said his piece," but of course there's no way
that could hold up.  I think, however, that he suddenly realized he was
suffering from Lacy-Braxton Syndrome: if you release too many records, you're
in danger of overwhelming your fans (Rick aside, naturally) and frustrating
potential newcomers.

What brought him back was Thirsty Ear's opportunity to run his own little slice
of the label, the Blue Series.  Given that he was such a vocal critic of the
jazz industry as being a "death industry," in which musicians are marketable
only when they die and can be easily and tidily "summarized," it was an
opportunity to do things as he saw fit.  He's also likened the series to early
ECM, in that it's designed for musicians who come from the avant-garde but
aren't averse to melodicism and otehr such things.  Thirsty Ear's one
stipulation was that he inaugurate the series himself, which he did with
'Pastoral Composure.'  Thirsty Ear made the offer soon after the announced
retirement, thus the unabated flow you mention.

The next two records released, by William Parker and Mat Maneri, presented a
risk that Shipp might be seen as extending invitations only to his friends and
bandmates.  But with the inclusion of Leo Smith on 'New Orbit' and upcoming
records by Craig Taborn (yes, a Shipp bandmate in the Roscoe Mitchell Note
Factory, but still someone better know for playing to the masses with James
Carter) and, it's rumored, Tim Berne (most likely via the Taborn connection),
there are signs that Shipp might be willing to stretch a bit outside his
immediate circle of fellow travelers.  We'll see.

Shipp talks about all this and more here:
http://www.jazzweekly.com/interviews/shipp.htm

Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - John Zorn, "troiseme livre," 'Duras:Duchamp' (Tzadik)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:21:15 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Never again Zorn

Hey,

>        I listened to the song ''Never Again'',by Zorn.Is it just me,or 
>this song
>has a lot of influence from Masami Akita(aka Merzbow)?Is there any relation 
>to
>Akita and Zorn???Did they play together?Will they????

You would think that there would be some connection, all similiarities 
concidered: Zorn's interest in Japanese underground, their mutual fondness 
of extreme bondage pictures etc etc etc. However, I have never heard any of 
them mention eachother or playing together or being connected in any way 
whatsoever.

Fred Frith, however, met Merzbow in Japan in 1981. It's amazing to think 
that a lot of people with yellow sunglasses suddenly think that Merzbow and 
japnoise is "ultrahip"

ARTHUR_G
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:04:26 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Never again Zorn

> You would think that there would be some connection, all similiarities
> concidered: Zorn's interest in Japanese underground, their mutual fondness
> of extreme bondage pictures etc etc etc. However, I have never heard any
of
> them mention eachother or playing together or being connected in any way
> whatsoever.

Didn't Zorn release a Merzbow album on Tzadik though?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:44:49 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl>
Subject: European On-line shps

 Hi,
 I'd need info on European On-line shops (cds, books) worth recommendation.
 Thanks,
 Marcin
 


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:53:52 EST
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: Re: European On-line shps

In a message dated 11/16/00 7:46:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes:

<< Hi,
  I'd need info on European On-line shops (cds, books) worth recommendation.
  Thanks,
  Marcin >>


101cd.com

________________________________________________
The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage
perhaps in music, because that art contains no material
to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value,
and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses.

               --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:11:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com>
Subject: prepiano Cage match (RE: question)

Re: technical notation for piano preparations
- --- "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) wrote:
> In other words if Cage wanted specific sounds to be
> the same performance
> after performance then he surely didn't give
> explicit enough directions IMO.

But wouldn't this be in keeping with Cagean theories
of indeterminacy?  Wouldn't the explicit simply
establish the authority of the composer to dictate the
"specific" events of a performance, thereby setting up
increasingly rigorous standards about what was or
wasn't acceptable in the course of a performance? 
Were the prepared piano pieces BEFORE Cage became
involved with Zen and chance (there _were_ prep pieces
before this, right?) more specified?  And
incidentally, I've done a search for in-print
recordings of Cage's prepared piano pieces by David
Tudor, and other than the 25th Retrospective concert
recordings, I've found nothing.  Am I lazy?

- -----s, maybe I should take this to Silence-L


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:47:00 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: prepiano Cage match (RE: question)

On Thu, Nov 16, 2000 at 08:11:14AM -0800, Scott Handley wrote:
 
> But wouldn't this be in keeping with Cagean theories
> of indeterminacy?  Wouldn't the explicit simply
> establish the authority of the composer to dictate the
> "specific" events of a performance, thereby setting up
> increasingly rigorous standards about what was or
> wasn't acceptable in the course of a performance? 
> Were the prepared piano pieces BEFORE Cage became
> involved with Zen and chance (there _were_ prep pieces
> before this, right?) more specified?  

For the most part, yes, the prepared piano pieces were from
before Cage focused on indeterminacy. See the excellent listing
of Cage's pieces by Larry Solomon at 
http://www.azstarnet.com/~solo/cageopus.htm

> And
> incidentally, I've done a search for in-print
> recordings of Cage's prepared piano pieces by David
> Tudor, and other than the 25th Retrospective concert
> recordings, I've found nothing.  Am I lazy?
> 
> -----s, maybe I should take this to Silence-L

I don't know of any offhand. But if they exist, people on Silence will
know.

- -- 
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:21:44 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu>
Subject: RE: prepiano Cage match (RE: question)

 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Scott Handley
To: Zorn-List
Sent: 11/16/2000 9:11 AM
Subject: prepiano Cage match (RE: question)

Re: technical notation for piano preparations
- --- "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) wrote:
> In other words if Cage wanted specific sounds to be
> the same performance
> after performance then he surely didn't give
> explicit enough directions IMO.

>But wouldn't this be in keeping with Cagean theories
>of indeterminacy?  

The liner notes to the CD of the "perilous night/four walls" indicate that
Cage *did* in fact intent to establish consistancies in performance and was
frustrated when he heard "mistakes" in preparation.  Eventually, of course
he grew to love such inconsistancies.  But, at first I believe the pieces
were written from the mind of an entirely control oriented composerly
mindset.  

Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #167
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