From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #325 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, March 9 2001 Volume 03 : Number 325 In this issue: - Re: religious/political (?) Re: music is my rabbi Re: Religion/Music Re: Religion/Music Re: evan parker with strings Re: evan parker with strings Re: archery noise questions... Re: archery Cage; Religion/Music Re(2): music is my rabbi Meshell Ndegeocello is my rabbi Re: Meshell Ndegeocello is my rabbi Re: Cage; Religion/Music z-list/hans eisler/essays on politics of music- zornlist/jews/nonlyric political music/mussorgsky's jews Re: Cage; Religion/Music Re: Meshell Ndegeocello is my rabbi Re: Cage; Religion/Music (no Z.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:36:39 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: religious/political (?) >>>or maybe is all just ju ju.<<< Braxton of course expounds that the vibrations of music have specific psycho-spiritual effects. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:37:49 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: music is my rabbi >>>any halfway decent music is by its nature spiritual.<<< But what does this sentence mean? What is "spiritual' and how is music thus? - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:41:13 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Religion/Music >>>I also expect you to feel the same the day you will have a surgical operation, or your wife will give birth to a baby (since we do not ask anymore to a husband to choose between the mother and the baby, thanks to modern medecine based on science and rational thinking).<<< My wife and I made sure to steer as far from the Western medical model as we could in the births of our three children. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:41:08 -0500 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Religion/Music s~Z wrote: > My wife and I made sure to steer as far from the Western medical model > as we could in the births of our three children. I take it you don't steer quite so far off when listening to CD's or connecting to the Net, tho', eh? Not to mention a billion other things. Brian Olewnick (who, though admiring the hell out of Braxton's music, also wonders about various jr. high school level aspects of his "cosmology") - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:25:39 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: evan parker with strings You guys know my feelings. Let's call it the Thurston Moore school of quasi-improv. Ken Waxman - --- "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:41:31 EST JonAbbey2@aol.com > wrote: > > > The other cliche in full effect was the > "Nirvana" school of non-idiomatic > > improv - here's a loud bit, now here's a quiet > bit, followed by...a loud bit!>> > > > > personally, I like to refer to that as the John > Zorn school of free improv. > > Jon, you have no pity :-). > > Patrice. > > - > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:47:35 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: evan parker with strings On Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:25:39 -0500 (EST) Ken Waxman wrote: > > You guys know my feelings. > > Let's call it the Thurston Moore school of > quasi-improv. I disagree. Thurston Moore belongs to the school: "Let's play first and think after (if not too tired)" :-). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:53:28 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: archery On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:36:48 EST Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > > According to CDNOW (or Amazon, I forget), Archery has been remastered and > includes a disc of bonus outtakes. I believe the outtakes are just one long > rehearsal. It's a 3CD set. For some reason, Cheap-CDs.com has it for $10. > Their website says it's the one released on 2/27/01, so I'm assuming it's the > 3CD set. I bought one. As far as I can tell, the 3xCD set has the exact same content as the 3 x CD from THE PARACHUTE YEARS: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 284 - ARCHERY: John Zorn Disc 1: Archery (rehearsal) 1/ Part 1 32:10 2/ Part 2 16:14 3/ Part 3 28:32 Disc 2 and 3: Archery 4/ A1-D2 20:35 5/ D3-G1 20:07 6/ G2-L4 23:53 7/ L5-O14 23:29 2001 - Tzadik (USA), TZ 7316-4 (3xCD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Which means that the ad is quite misleading since everybody should know that a 3xCD set has more stuff than a 2xLP one... Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:16:57 -0500 From: "Bruno Bissonnette" Subject: noise questions... Hello all, While reading the reviews section of Bananafish #14, I ran across some weird drawing which would depict Maso Yamazaki's (a.k.a. Masonna) throat/neck being outfitted with some sort of internal/external apparatus, the use of which would be to replace his damaged vocal cords and allow him to keep doing the vocal screaming noise (as explained in the accompanying reviews)... now, as ridiculous as this may seem, could this be true? Or are the people at bananafish just making this up for fun (which wouldn't really be surprising). While on noise... would someone please recommend some discs by Hijokaidan, and also Incapacitants? Thanks. Lastly... does anyone here know about the KONTAKTA CD? I've heard that it's supposed to be some great live musique concrete from 1992, but can't come up with any other information about it anywhere. Thanks, Bruno _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 19:17:48 EST From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: archery In a message dated 3/9/01 6:53:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: << On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:36:48 EST Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > > According to CDNOW (or Amazon, I forget), Archery has been remastered and > includes a disc of bonus outtakes. I believe the outtakes are just one long > rehearsal. It's a 3CD set. For some reason, Cheap-CDs.com has it for $10. > Their website says it's the one released on 2/27/01, so I'm assuming it's the > 3CD set. I bought one. As far as I can tell, the 3xCD set has the exact same content as the 3 x CD from THE PARACHUTE YEARS: IT IS IDENTICAL. I just go it in the mail. Still, since I didn't own the Parachute box set, $10 for 3CD seems a sweet deal. It is not, though, any different from the previously released box set. Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 284 - ARCHERY: John Zorn Disc 1: Archery (rehearsal) 1/ Part 1 32:10 2/ Part 2 16:14 3/ Part 3 28:32 Disc 2 and 3: Archery 4/ A1-D2 20:35 5/ D3-G1 20:07 6/ G2-L4 23:53 7/ L5-O14 23:29 2001 - Tzadik (USA), TZ 7316-4 (3xCD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Which means that the ad is quite misleading since everybody should know that a 3xCD set has more stuff than a 2xLP one... Patrice. >> - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:36:29 -0500 From: "Ryan W. Blum" Subject: Cage; Religion/Music I'm probably a Religion/Music major, so there's one connection between the two. Seriously though, it's a fascinating discussion that goes far beyond ethnomusicology... I will recommend to anyone that hasn't already read it John Cage's _Silence_, specifically the "Lecture on Nothing." Required reading for the list. What's striking to me about it is that he's not espousing Buddhist doctrine per se, but rather arriving at some of the same concepts through musical "reasoning"; as well, the entire thing reads like a Sutra, with its mantric section, etc. As mentioned, Heidigger's "The Nature of Language" (from _On the Road to Language_) provides a fantastic description of the linguistic "experience" which Cage achieves, which is directly related to the musical experience that he is trying to explain (and which many of us hope to be struck by with the music we enjoy). All highly recommended, life-changing reading. Has anyone on the list done research into the Cage/Buddhism phenomenon (this is the wrong way to phrase it; it's too natural of a connection)? I'm heading towards a thesis on the subject and would appreciate any info, recommendation, direction, etc. Patrice wrote: > I am sure that when you are in a plane, you feel secure to know that it was > designed by people with a rational approach > Please enlight me: what has religion (or "the sacred way of knowing the > world") brought us in the near past? I don't keep up to date with these > topics. I'm not going to argue that religion has given anything to the Western world in the latest epoch (though it should be argued by the right person), but I will say that it's incredibly problematic to judge these things with our particular collective lens (not to mention everyone's personal set of values). This is a simplistic and cliche example, but it says something: I can debate human rights vs. the caste system with a Hindi person until the cows come home, but it will be like trains passing in the night--people's essential values can be THAT radically different. I, being a good Westerner, evolve most of my beliefs from the idea of the individual. If someone believes in the notion of endless eons of karmic transfer, then they believe that things are fundamentally different, that caste issues are out of their hands and into the hands of the Cosmos. You can atttack that issue all you want--no scientific proof, etc.--but belief is a STONG thing. It's not that Religion has offered US anything, but that belief is just as strong the belief we have in our technology, rationality, etc. Excited for Matt Maneri with Mark Dresser tomorrow night at the Boston MCA, Ryan NP, in honor: Cage, nova musicha n.1 - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:44:23 -0800 From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: Re(2): music is my rabbi keith@pfmentum.com writes: >>>>any halfway decent music is by its nature spiritual.<<< > >But what does this sentence mean? > >What is "spiritual' and how is music thus? > My premise here is that most humans have emotional, physical, intellectual and spiritual aspects. I consider inspiration a spiritual function -- note the root of each word. Thus, inspired music is spiritual music. ... For those of us who have not experienced inspiration, further explanation will grow no less abstract. > > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:50:53 -0800 From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: Meshell Ndegeocello is my rabbi Art is the highest metaphysical purpose of man. -- Friedrich Nietzsche - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:59:25 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Meshell Ndegeocello is my rabbi On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:50:53 -0800 "Martin Wisckol" wrote: > > Art is the highest metaphysical purpose of man. -- Friedrich Nietzsche Particle physics is not bad either, but it is harder to chat about at a tea party, and since it is so rational, you take the risk that somebody can prove you that you are wrong. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:07:49 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Cage; Religion/Music On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:36:29 -0500 "Ryan W. Blum" wrote: > > hands and into the hands of the Cosmos. You can atttack that issue all you > want--no scientific proof, etc.--but belief is a STONG thing. It's not that > Religion has offered US anything, but that belief is just as strong the > belief we have in our technology, rationality, etc. Except that some things work, some don't. It is funny how you put everything on the same level (common "post-modern" attitude where there is no truth, everything is "constructed" and relative). Technology (hard to find something more rational than that) seems to be espoused beyond race and culture, even by the most religious fanatics. How do you explain that? Are people stupid and brainwashed that they jump on the latest technology and science? Or there is maybe something in technology/science that is totally missing in religion? I give you a clue: it works. I agree that there are things that are "constructed" and relative (in the sense that mine is not better than yours): religion, it definitely one. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:26:05 EST From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: z-list/hans eisler/essays on politics of music- In a message dated 3/9/01 3:18:41 PM, you wrote: <> i have the book somewhere on my shelf, but hans eisler has a wonderful anthology called "a rebel in music." it's less polemic than much of his actual compositions. it has a fun essay on p.188 called "on stupidity in music" where he talks about dangerous music, which he considers dance music, but he does not consider dangerous music to be stupid. kurt, any opinions? steve koenig n.p.: charlie haden: liberation music orchestra - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:30:59 EST From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: zornlist/jews/nonlyric political music/mussorgsky's jews <> in pictures at an exhibition, modest mussorgsky has a scene called "samuel and schmuyle goldberg" described by him as a two jews wheedling. in an article i misplaced, but have if anyone needs, i read and do believe that, since schmuyle is yiddish for samuel, they are meant to be two aspects of the same: the "assimilated proper" jew still has the "whiny offensive" aspect within him... i wonder what john zorn could do to usurp this piece... steve koenig n.p.: jimmy sommerville: enough is enough - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 19:21:36 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Cage; Religion/Music On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 05:07:49PM -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Except that some things work, some don't. It is funny how you put everything > on the same level (common "post-modern" attitude where there is no truth, > everything is "constructed" and relative). Technology (hard to find something > more rational than that) seems to be espoused beyond race and culture, even > by the most religious fanatics. How do you explain that? Are people stupid > and brainwashed that they jump on the latest technology and science? Or there > is maybe something in technology/science that is totally missing in religion? > I give you a clue: it works. What do you mean "works"? If you mean that science best serves the purposes that science does, and that therefore that which is not science is lesser for it, that's like saying that a turntable is insufficiently useful because it can't steer a car. Or, more on topic, to say that we can be ignore John Zorn's composing because he's not all that striking a singer. Or, in other words, a person who can only see nails overvalues his hammer. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:09:24 -0500 From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Meshell Ndegeocello is my rabbi on 3/9/01 7:59 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at proussel@ichips.intel.com puffed unimpressively: > > On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:50:53 -0800 "Martin Wisckol" wrote: >> >> Art is the highest metaphysical purpose of man. -- Friedrich Nietzsche > > Particle physics is not bad either, but it is harder to chat about > at a tea party, and since it is so rational, you take the risk that > somebody can prove you that you are wrong. Nothing all that "rational" about the quantum. And it really MAKES a tea party. ;-) RL ---------- Sessionographies: ~~~ CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: ~~~ COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also: --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things --Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--The Interview--ETC. all at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE/splash.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 21:19:03 -0500 From: "Ryan W. Blum" Subject: Re: Cage; Religion/Music (no Z.) > Except that some things work, some don't. True that. And the "problem" with religion is that many of its claims aren't verifiable, especially through means such as the scientific method... I saw a video of a panel discussion with among others Huston Smith and Carl Sagan. Sagan said something to the tone of, I haven't found anything better to get at truth than the scientific method. Smith, of course, retorted saying that science can't test the "big" things... it can only test observable phenomena. Sagan said, Science can test big things... we know about SUPERNOVAS and galaxies and stuff... and Smith said that's not 'bigger' than ourselves... trains passing in the night. > Technology (hard to find something > more rational than that) seems to be espoused beyond race and culture, even > by the most religious fanatics. How do you explain that? Are people stupid It might be--and I apologize for deflating the deathmatch--that technology and religion aren't so diametrically opposed. No doubt that some parts of them are (ex. certain claims made in Tibetan 'Buddhist' medicine which are related to Buddhism and aren't compatible with Western medicine), but at their core, they aren't so disdainful of one another. still playing John Cage: nova musicha n.1 - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #325 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? 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