From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #338 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, March 15 2001 Volume 03 : Number 338 In this issue: - Re: Bewitched Re: Bewitched Odp: Religion/Music Re: Bewaited Re: Religion/Music RE: empty bottle festival question Norman's in NYC / Hammond Re: Norman's in NYC / Hammond Odp: Odp: Religion/Music Re: Odp: Odp: Religion/Music Re: Bewitched ... Re: Odp: Odp: Religion/Music any news on the new Nobukazu Takemura Re: Bewaited Re: any news on the new Nobukazu Takemura Re: ...exists Re: ...exists Re: ...exists Re: Odp: Religion/Music Monday, March 19 at Myopic: Ambient Improvisational Re: Bewitched Re: God's in NYC / Hammond Odp: Religion/Music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:51:56 -0500 From: Mark Saleski Subject: Re: Bewitched >>>>slaughtering of "Clap Hands"<<< > >He should have re-titled it "Limp Wrists." > >That one had me screaming >in disgust. you all do know that the recording was produced by Tom Waits?? i kinda like it...but i'm always drawn to covers that are nothing like the originals. current favorite: Mark Kozelek's cd of acoustic AC/DC covers. - -- Mark Saleski - marks@foliage.com "The music is a journey, the journey is endless." - Sun Ra - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:00:01 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Bewitched On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:51:56 -0500 Mark Saleski wrote: > > current favorite: Mark Kozelek's cd of acoustic AC/DC covers. Fantastic! Even for me who had no clue of what AC/DC was :-). Patrice (waiting for OLD RAMON). - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 19:04:25 +0100 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Religion/Music - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Chamberlain > How's that? I have not claimed that God exists. I also have not claimed > that God does not exist. Patrice seems to believe that God does not exist. > If he makes that claim, then you're saying he has to prove it? He can't. > And I can't prove, using scientific methods, that God exists. > In the absence of proof, the only truly rational position to hold is that of > an agnostic. No. Absolutely no. One hasto make a difference between a proof and a reason.very few of our beliefs can be justified by proofs - and even those that are are hardly ever accepted *because* of there being a proof (of course, all his applies when we take a quite strict mathemtical idea of proof.). The demand to proove beliefs is to strong: We can have rational ideas based on our expectations, what we are used to, etc. Science is no exception: the idea of proof/disproof has hardly of any use there. See the problems of neopositivist theory of knowledge. And i do believe that I, and Patrice and others as well , have good reasons for rejecting the existence of god. we do not use reference to him in our explanations of tyhe way the world is. If soemone has the, I would be willing to listen to what he says. And in fact, what i heard from strongly religius people is quite far from oridinary. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:13:15 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Bewaited you all do know that the recording was produced by Tom Waits?? And he plays on all tracks but the first and sings on on the last. Plus the players are mostly Waits alumni aren't they? My 13 and 10 year old sons like Tom Waits, and they were screaching with me and shaking their heads. "But Dad, I really like that song when Tom Waits sings it." np: Reznor's remixes of Bowie's 'I'm Afraid of Americans' - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:18:11 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Religion/Music >>>have good reasons for rejecting the existence of god<<< But there is still a gold mine awaiting anyone who believes in the existence of belief in God...and studies the structure and dynamics of those belief systems...they have a lot of detailed information about the psyche that created those belief systems... at one level they are opium... but there are many more levels... and tomes have been written... all of which have incredible symbolic value...at least until we turn back into sand... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:08:57 -0500 From: "Michael Witt" Subject: RE: empty bottle festival question > We're thinking about going to Chicago for the Empty Bottle Festival next > month and were wondering about whether we need to get tickets in advance. > Brotzmann's playing Friday night, the Die like a Dog quartet with Fred > Anderson instead of Kondo. I haven't been to the Empty Bottle > before, so I > don't know how big it is, but I'm curious if this show is likely to sell > out. The last three years I've gone, the room has been full at least on Friday and Saturday nights. - - Michael Witt, Lead Systems Administrator Information Technology Department, Purdue Libraries email: mwitt@purdue.edu | phone: 765-494-2857 "Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours." -R. Bach - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:28:15 EST From: Reaboi@aol.com Subject: Norman's in NYC / Hammond there's a CD shop in NYC called NORMAN'S. locals will probably know this place. to those of you that don't, this shop has a ton of out-of-print music of just about every genre. they also put CDs out for sale as soon as they get them (usually on a Saturday) and not on the following Tuesday, when just about every distributer lreally 'releases' new music. it's a great place to go for this reason. well I couldn't wait to buy the Hammond Wicked Grin record. boy do I regret it. I'm not a blues fan by any means. but I am a Waits fanatic. those tunes that he doesn't slaughter are full of lousy blues singing, and he misunderstands most of those tunes. what was Tom thinking? the playing is okay, but the disc has NONE of the dark charm we think of when Waits is involved (sharp contrast to the Marianne Faithful recod Strange Weather). save your money. I'm probably selling mine used in the next few days. Cheers, Dave By the way, last night's Rothenberd-Dresser-Ibarra gig was great. probably Susie's best playing for 1 year. she even said to Dresser, after his solo in the first tune, "That was amazing!" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:54:17 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Norman's in NYC / Hammond >>>I'm probably selling mine used in the next few days.<<< I's feel guilty taking money for it. And I think it no accident that T Bone Burnett put a smiley face after his signature in the liner notes. He should be ashamed of himself for that drivel. He's been reading too much Braxton. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:58:11 +0100 From: "piotr kalinski" Subject: Odp: Odp: Religion/Music DvdBelkin wrote: >> You will NEVER know ANYTHING about spirituality without actually >> trying to engage in some sort of spiritual practise. >> You can spend a lifetime reading New Age books or listening to Dalajlama >> but you will not even get close. Which means you will not have any grounds >> to base your judgment as to which reality is more mysterious or >fascinating. > >So you define certain practices and realities - but not others - as >spiritual, huh? Not really. All I'm saying is that you cannot judge a spiritual reality of, say, a New Age writer or of Lao Tzu for that matter if you don't engage in practises which led those people to achieve what they achieved. I believe a person saying that their everyday reality is mysterious or fascinating or spiritual but that's just about as far as that person's judgments go. They cannot and should not compare it (their spirituality) to anyone else's. But then again, you're right - I can safely say that beating a person to death or buying a Bruce Springsteen record with an intension of playing it to one's child is pretty fucking far from spiritual. piotr - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:22:34 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: Religion/Music On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 08:58:11PM +0100, piotr kalinski wrote: > or buying a Bruce Springsteen record with an intension of playing it to > one's child > is pretty fucking far from spiritual. There are many in New Jersey who would disagree. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:07:33 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Bewitched [re: Hammond does Waits] > >That one had me screaming > >in disgust. I'm certain it could not have been as pointless as Holly Cole's Tom Waits cover record. But then I am not into most contemporary "jazz" "vocals". So IMO. - ----s, skibbideedoowahcha-cha-choo, zebbada'BA-doo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:00:28 -0800 (PST) From: Theo Klaase Subject: ... - --0-701662661-984607228=:22319 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've met John Zorn, I know he exists.... God? I don't think so... - -That which is Theo "My philosophy, in essense, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." An individualist is a man who says: "I will not run anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not sacrifice myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." --Ayn Rand. - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! - --0-701662661-984607228=:22319 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I've met John Zorn, I know he exists....

God?  I don't think so...

 


 



-That which is Theo     "My philosophy, in essense, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."

An individualist is a man who says:  "I will not run anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine.  I will not rule or be ruled.  I will not sacrifice myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." --Ayn Rand.

 


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! - --0-701662661-984607228=:22319-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:28:13 -0500 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: Religion/Music Mike Chamberlain wrote: > Ahhh, New Jersey--the land that God forgot. :-) All the more appropriate, I suppose, that we're moving to Jersey City next month... Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:38:54 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: any news on the new Nobukazu Takemura The new Nobukazu Takemura on Thrill Jockey was supposed to be out on February 20. I am not seen it. Is it really out? Thanks, Patrice (1 + 1 = 2). - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:50:38 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Bewaited Is it anywhere near as lame as Holly Cole's album of Waits songs? ______________________________________________________________________ ___ I'm glad I don't know. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:55:31 -0600 From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: any news on the new Nobukazu Takemura TJ lists it (Hoshi No Koe) on their site - I need to go down to Reckless Records and see if I can find it on vinyl (along with Sign, which TJ says is sold out on the site, but I bet there are copies lying around Chicago). m >The new Nobukazu Takemura on Thrill Jockey was supposed to be out on February >20. I am not seen it. Is it really out? > > Thanks, > > Patrice (1 + 1 = 2). > >- - -- === === === === Matthew Ross Davis http://mp3.com/craque http://metatronpress.com === === === === === === === - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:24:04 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: ...exists But what if *you* don't exist? Also many American (and some Canadian) mostly right wing politicians seem to be on first name basis with God. *They* think he exists. But maybe (hopefully) they don't. Ken Waxman (who sometimes has days when he's not sure that he exists) - --- Theo Klaase wrote: > > I've met John Zorn, I know he exists.... > > God? I don't think so... > > > > > > > > > -That which is Theo "My philosophy, in essense, > is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his > own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with > productive achievement as his noblest activity, and > reason as his only absolute." > > An individualist is a man who says: "I will not run > anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine. I > will not rule or be ruled. I will not sacrifice > myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." > --Ayn Rand. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:36:27 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: ...exists >>>But what if *you* don't exist?<<< Even if you do, you're already dead. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:49:39 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: ...exists On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:24:04 -0500 (EST) Ken Waxman wrote: > > Ken Waxman > (who sometimes has days when he's not sure that he > exists) I testify: Ken exists. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:27:48 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Odp: Religion/Music On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:53:10 "Mike Chamberlain" wrote: > > >And i do believe that I, and Patrice and others as well , have good reasons > >for rejecting the existence of god. > > I haven't heard any of them yet, good or bad. Patrice calls it > "superstition." I call theism and atheism "faith." Faith in the sense of In fact I tried, but was not very successful. I naively thought that the multiplicity of gods accross societies and civili- zations was a clear sign that something was wrong. In short, if god existed, one should be enough, no? At least we could have expected that after centuries of wandering, some convergence might have happened. Maybe be even some mutual understanding and respect. Fortunately, a few people on the list showed with mastery, intellectual rigor and consistence how misled I was to hang to such shabby lifesaver. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:32:42 -0600 From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Monday, March 19 at Myopic: Ambient Improvisational Friends, This coming Monday, March 19, I'll be hosting an "Ambient Improvisational" event at the Myopic Improv Workshop in Chicago, IL. This will include myself - Matthew Ross Davis (a.k.a. Craque) - laying down a groundwork of electronic sonic texture; a continuity of sound, a layer of ambience to the wonderful creaking floor above us and the L wooshing by! The soloists will be whomever wants to join. Consider this an impromptu call for participants: carry your instrument of choice and glide in and out of the textures as you feel so inspired. It will be part musicircus, part workshop, part sonic social club. Here's the info... Ambient Improvisational feat. Craque Monday, March 19, 7:30PM Myopic Books 1468 N. Milwaukee, Chicago, IL 773/862-4882 Admission is free - -- === === === === Matthew Ross Davis http://mp3.com/craque http://metatronpress.com === === === === === === === - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:09:05 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Bewitched > you all do know that the recording was produced by Tom Waits?? yes, but i wonder if a song didn't work whether he had the right to say "nup, i'm afraid you can't do this one..." > i kinda like it...but i'm always drawn to covers that are nothing like > the originals. me too, but not covers that destroy the song completely. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 01:32:44 -0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: God's in NYC / Hammond "God is a concept by which we measure our pain." John Lennon "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours..." Bob Dylan "John[Hammond]'s sound is so compelling, complete, symmetrical and soulful. I've been a fan of his since his first record and was proud to be a part of this. John is great and a force of nature." Tom Waits Hmmm... np:Wicked Grin! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:49:41 +0100 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Religion/Music - ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Zitt > On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 08:33:24PM -0500, Mike Chamberlain wrote: > > > If there is no God, then there is no downside in not believing in God. If > > there is a God, then I presume there is a downside to not believing. I > > figure I might as well believe....in something. Maybe I'm wrong. > > Well, what is missing here (and Pascal missed it too) is that it's too > simply binary as to whether God does/not exist. It misses the case that > a deity exists but is completely different from what we believe. What > if there is a God who *rewards* sinners? Those who took Pascal's wager > would be in cosiderably worse shape. Very good point IMO. Another trouble for pascal: we can look at his deal at a completely different angle. He says that if there's no god, we won't loose much if we believe in god, abd if god does exost, we get in serious trouble (eternal bad sensation). So it's better to believe in god. But we can look at it in another way: if we believe there's no god, and we happen to be not right, we have at least one good news: we will live still. OK, it won't be very fine, we'll live in hell, etc. - but we live anyway. On the other hand, if we decide to really take care of religious practices, and god does not exist, we have wasted THE ONLY LIVE WE HAD on living according to some restrictions. We wasted all we had. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #338 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com