From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #349 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, March 22 2001 Volume 03 : Number 349 In this issue: - Re: PiL (again) Re: PiL (again) - LONG RE: PiL (again) he who lurks last lurks loudest Re: he who lurks last lurks loudest RE: he who lurks last lurks loudest RE: PiL (again) RE: PiL (again) - LONG Age of Aquarious Re: he who lurks last lurks loudest RE: Age of Aquanet Re: Age of Aquarious online store comparisons? Re: online store comparisons? Re: online store comparisons? Re: online store comparisons? Re: online store comparisons? RE: PiL (again) - LONG Re: Material Re: Zorn + Children. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:21:45 -0500 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: PiL (again) One more PiL tidbit that people here may appreciate. When Laswell was working with Lydon to decide who was going to be in the 'band' for "Album," Lydon reported joked that they should get Ginger Baker (ex-Cream, who was living in Italy on an olive farm). Laswell said 'that's the first good idea you've had.' He got in touch with Baker and he does indeed appear on "Album." Best, Jason - -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:34:04 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: PiL (again) - LONG On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 11:52:34AM -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > Second, I deeply envy anyone who got to hear the mighty Levene/Wobble/Atkins > version of the band. A funny thing: I *think* I saw them, but I'm not sure. Maybe others can place this: it was at the Beacon Theatre, right after the release of the Time Zone single, and Afrika Bambaata opened. He tried to get the audience to chant along with the rapping, but the audience only shouted curses. He got fed up and wolked off stage; a while later someone else walked on and turned the beatbox off. I was sitting in an area of folding chairs at the front, which erupted into a mosh pit. I was knocked over several times, a couple of those times landing under Billy Idol, who never dropped his sneer. My raincoat got swpt up into the mob and was never seen again. I remember nothing whatsoever of the PiL performance itself. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:39:43 -0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: RE: PiL (again) >From: "Steve Smith" >A few moments later, you hear the mike hit the floor. During their Seattle Showbox gig, when Lydon stood at the edge of the stage, a hyperactive fan 'embraced' his lower legs and refused to let go; Lydon cracked him a few times on the head with the live mic, in time to the song... . "This Is Not a Love Song" still kicks ass, however. Their last moment of worth methinks, the line "I'm crossing over" sounded ominous...the B-side ('Under Water') is awesome, is it included in Plastic Box? np: Tina Brooks Complete Blue Note Recordings _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:10:33 -0500 (EST) From: alberta Subject: he who lurks last lurks loudest hello, it's me, the poster formerly known as kurt.gottschalk@scni.com. not much time to talk to y'all what with the new job, but in case you're keeping score, i'm now albertayler@email.com. but the real reason i write: joey baron has hair. ok, later friends. kg np (now and forever): cnn - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:20:31 -0800 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: he who lurks last lurks loudest > but the real reason i write: joey baron has hair. > Well, he always did. I glad he finally became comfortable enough within himself to express hair... skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:19:39 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: he who lurks last lurks loudest Oh, boy, was THAT a surprise when I saw him at Tonic on Tuesday night. Still, unlike Paul Schafer, Joey could actually pull off the chrome dome look and make it seem cool. I almost didn't recognize him with a beard. Welcome back, Alberta. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com ...not just the president, but also a client... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of alberta Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:11 PM To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: he who lurks last lurks loudest but the real reason i write: joey baron has hair. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:31:50 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: PiL (again) At the show I attended, near the halfway mark Lydon was damn near begging the audience to get out of their seats (it was in a theater setting) and become involved, or he was going to get bored and leave. The fans up front made a bigger noise and the show went on. "I'm crossing over..." sounds even more ominous in the wake of the direction the band's music took subsequently. I don't see a track titled "Under Water" on the box, but there is something called "Blue Water" which is contemporaneous with 'This Is What You Want...' but doesn't appear on the album. Might that be it? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:34:44 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: PiL (again) - LONG But what a FABULOUS story... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Joseph Zitt Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:34 PM To: Steve Smith Cc: 'thomas chatterton'; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: PiL (again) - LONG I remember nothing whatsoever of the PiL performance itself. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:48:18 -0000 From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Age of Aquarious >but the real reason i write: joey baron has hair. > >I almost didn't recognize him with a beard. Oh man! This is the biggest thing that has happened since Zorn let his hair grew long!! (or maybe even since Bill Frisell shaved of his mustache). So please tell more, what kind of a beard? What kind of hair? Not like he had in the mid 80s I hope (yeeiiiks!!) Where is the papparazzi when we need 'em? :-) AG _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:30:38 -0500 From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: he who lurks last lurks loudest on 3/22/01 1:20 PM, Skip Heller at velaires@earthlink.net wrote: >> but the real reason i write: joey baron has hair. >> > > > > > Well, he always did. I glad he finally became comfortable enough within > himself to express hair... > He's accepted his inner hippie. - --Mike - -- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:24:03 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Age of Aquanet Joey's sportin' a tasteful fringe of nearly black hair, in roughly the same cut that Dave Douglas has favored for a while now. His new 'do was complimented by a virile, close-trimmed beard. Believe me, darlings, it'll be all the rage. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Beethoven, Piano Concerto No. 1 - Ania Dorfman, NBC/Toscanini (Andante) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Gadney Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:48 PM To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Age of Aquarious >but the real reason i write: joey baron has hair. > >I almost didn't recognize him with a beard. Oh man! This is the biggest thing that has happened since Zorn let his hair grew long!! (or maybe even since Bill Frisell shaved of his mustache). So please tell more, what kind of a beard? What kind of hair? Not like he had in the mid 80s I hope (yeeiiiks!!) Where is the papparazzi when we need 'em? :-) AG _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:25:04 -0500 From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re: Age of Aquarious Hello Arthur, I saw Joey last Saturday at Cooper Union with Dave Douglas quartet and even made some pictures. As I'm not updating my site for some time, I don't know when I'll put them there, but I can send them to anybody who wants to see Baron with beard and hair. But please be prepared that the pictures are not so good. Thursday, March 22, 2001, you wrote to me: >>but the real reason i write: joey baron has hair. >> >>I almost didn't recognize him with a beard. AG> Oh man! This is the biggest thing that has happened since Zorn let his hair AG> grew long!! (or maybe even since Bill Frisell shaved of his mustache). So AG> please tell more, what kind of a beard? What kind of hair? Not like he had AG> in the mid 80s I hope (yeeiiiks!!) Where is the papparazzi when we need 'em? AG> :-) - -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:39:40 +0200 From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: online store comparisons? This list seems like a good place to come up with a comprehensive comparison between the various online sources for purchasing the music discussed here. I'll start with some paltry details, but hope that others will fill in more, and details of their buying experiences - especially regarding genre and label availabilities at the various places (i.e., comparing the stores' racks), and prices; their favorite stores, and any revealing anecdotes or anything. Really, I'm looking for why people buy at the places they do. I've typically stuck to just a couple, so could use a more thorough buyer's guide to buying, so to speak. I know there are some store-owners on the list - hopefully they're cool with this and any resulting dicussion. :) Please add in new entries, or comment on those below. I've marked advantages/disadvantages as + / - . HAD EXPERIENCE: - -------------- Cadence (http://www.cadencebuilding.com) + Good source for all the avant-jazz indie labels. + Very quick turnaround (usually same day) + Fair prices, S&H - - selection for non-jazz experimental minimal - - $2.50 surcharge for non-subscribers - - ug-ug-ugly online search engine Verge (http://www.vergemusic.com/) + Large selection of avant-jazz & experimental music of all sorts + Very good prices in USD due to good exchange rate with CAD + 5% discount on most items if 'backorder' option chosen - - with 'backorder' option, order could go out in arbitrary number of shipments (with associated cost, hence the 5% discount) Forced Exposure (http://www.forcedexposure.com/) + large selection, haven't compared to Verge, lots more non-jazz than Cadence - - prices maybe a tad higher than the above (if at all) NO EXPERIENCE: - ------------- Anomalous (http://www.anomalousrecords.com/) + Looks like large, interesting selection. - - With exchange rate, more expensive than Verge, it seems (with similar selection?) Other Music (http://www.othermusic.com/) DMG (http://www.dtmgallery.com/) Drimala (http://www.drimala.com/) + manageable size, easy to browse - - doesn't carry everything :) Wayside (http://www.wayside.com/) MEGO/MDOS (http://www.mdos.at/) + only access to some European material? - - in Europe (a minus for US residents, perhaps) INDIVIDUAL LABELS Often a good source for the best prices, since overhead may be lower. More money goes to the course, but perhaps undermines the above distributors on whom the bulk of the music depends (just stating this to forestall related discussion - this isn't the point of the post :) Erstwhile (http://www.erstwhilerecords.com/) + volume discounts (e.g. 5+ is $11 ppd/ea.) - - snail-mail only (so far) I'm sure there are plenty others (fill-in-the-blank...) vince - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:03:22 -0500 From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: online store comparisons? On your "no experience" list are two that I'd highly recommend: Wayside, who I've been dealing with for at least fifteen years (whoa) and can't even come up with a nitpicking complaint about. In addition, I've heard nothing but good things from the labels that have dealt with Wayside. Anomalous, great for the avant-est avant-garde with sometimes the lowest prices around (here in the US anyway). I even ordered something once that the price dropped by the time they got it so they refunded the difference. I'd also recommend: Aquarius Records in San Francisco; their prices tend to be a bit high but they're very nice people and put out a great email newsletter (plus they carry some stuff I can't find elsewhere). Dusty Groove, unbeatable prices and a great selection of exotica, Brazillian, hard bop, soul jazz, French, etc. (Though apparently their overseas shipping to some countries might be a bit steep.) RRRecords, 23 Central St., Lowell MA 01852 - no website (or only an old one that lists their own releases) and a listing-only catalog are the main drawbacks Twisted Village, also nice people and have some good used titles as well and of course Forced Exposure is a reliable mainstay (though I miss being able to read their photocopied catalogs) For more general/mainstream releases (relatively speaking) a friend recommended CD Connection as a good alternative to the Amazons and CDNows of the world. He does orders every other month (must be nice) and the only one I've placed was fast and completely filled even though there were a couple of items I expected they wouldn't get immediately. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:10:59 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: online store comparisons? In a message dated 3/22/01 4:40:40 PM, lartis@ath.forthnet.gr writes: << Anomalous (http://www.anomalousrecords.com/) + Looks like large, interesting selection. - - With exchange rate, more expensive than Verge, it seems (with similar selection?) >> I don't think there's too much overlap between the stock of Verge and Anomalous. Anomalous focuses more on "sound art", with some improv sprinkled around the edges. Verge is primarily focused on improv. I haven't done a head to head price comparison between them, but Anomalous's prices are usually the best in the US. also, as long as you're including M.Dos, you should include Metamkine (http://metamkine.free.fr/), who seem to be the premier experimental distributor in Europe. Jerome was on hiatus much of last year, but he's been back for a few months and should be fully restocked, although the web site has yet to reflect it. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:21:58 -0500 From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: online store comparisons? on 01.03.22 4:39 PM, Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson at lartis@ath.forthnet.gr mewled endlessly: > Wayside (http://www.wayside.com/) This goes to a furniture store (!) Hmmmmm, RL ---------- Sessionographies: ~~~ CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: ~~~ COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also: --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things --Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--The Interview--ETC. all at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE/splash.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:34:38 +0200 From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: Re: online store comparisons? From: "Rick Lopez" > > Wayside (http://www.wayside.com/) > > This goes to a furniture store (!) Oops. http://www.waysidemusic.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:47:14 -0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: RE: PiL (again) - LONG >From: "Steve Smith" >Ultimately, my response to this dichotomy was to buy the 4CD box set, >'Plastic Box,' which came out on Virgin (UK only, but imports were common >and cheap) a couple of years ago with very little fanfare. It's as >generically packaged as 'Album' was, a basic black box with a plastic outer >sleeve. It's got material from all of the studio albums (though obviously >not 'Commercial Zone') plus 12" remixes, compilation tracks, BBC live >material and outtakes. (I'd be happy to privately send a tracklist to >anyone interested... it's not listed at Amazon or Barnes & Noble, and CDNow >is selling it for nearly $70, whereas I paid $39.99 at Tower). Amazon.uk is selling it for 22 pounds and has the full track listing. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:52:20 -0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Material >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" > >Without getting out to listen again, my recollection is totally improvised, >completely unlike any other Material record, pretty noisy (which is >expected, given the number of percussionists), but that the sound quality >is ok. According to the notes, it is a complete, unedited performance. It's one single track of about 60 minutes. Beinhorn using a lot of radio and sound effects. Worth it I'd say if you like the Massacre side of Laswell. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:06:41 -0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Zorn + Children. >From: Orangejazz@aol.com > >Now, I've read Bataille >and I think I understand some of his fundamental concepts about sex + >death, >and I also understand that child pornography exists, I'm not happy about >it, >but I'm "bearing witness". Hell, there was even a Newsweek article about it >two weeks ago. I still don't feel the need to look at it, should I? Are >people like Zorn and Bataille saying I should see these things? Bataille doesn't discuss child pornography, which as you say is pretty abhorrent and exploitative. But not all instances of child sexuality are pornographic. Bataille discusses transgression. That's the concept that applies here. > >Are Bataille, Zorn, and Bellmer looking at sex with children as an >extension >of S&M? The discourse on that was a little unclear, probably due to my only >having read Sade, not Deluze or Masoch. No, no. But read Deleuze's account because he also provides a useful distinction between pornography and "pornology," a term he uses for the work of Sade and Masoch. >Yet there is >still a power relationship set up in "child sexuality", the adult in almost >all scenarios, is exploting the kid. The power relationship is the essence of "pornography." >So from there, I don't really understand how it plays into Zorn's work. Zorn considers himself a transgressive auteur. He thinks that music, if it's worth anything, should always test the boundaries of the possible. >If Zorn were putting these images and ideas into his work just so people >would discuss it, why has it always ended up in some morality battle on >this >list? Because that's where transgression always has to go. If morality battles don't rage, the work can never be transgressive. Though the Zorn list should know better. Leave the morality battles for the general public and the school boards. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #349 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". 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