From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #466 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, June 14 2001 Volume 03 : Number 466 In this issue: - Euro festivals Re: From Zappa to Zorn Fwd: Euro festivals Re: From Zappa to Zorn Re: From Zappa to Zorn Re: From Zappa to Zorn Re: two british jazz-related questions Re: From Zappa to Zorn Re: From Zappa to Zorn Re: From Zappa to Zorn New Skopelitis Recording Re: Euro festivals Goodbye 20th Century Igor Wakhevitch Zorn on Zappa Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) Re: Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) Re: Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:12:59 +0300 From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: Euro festivals I'm in Athens Greece. What European music festivals (featuring list-relevant - in the broad sense - music) should I know about, from the current date onwards? Links to specific info/schedules would be handy. thanky. - -- Vincent Kargatis NP: Greg Kelley - TRUMPET - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:11:49 -0700 From: William Crump Subject: Re: From Zappa to Zorn Some time in the last couple of years, Zorn did a lecture/Q&A if I recall correctly, and it was reported here on the list that he called FZ's Uncle Meat the "best album ever." Even taking JZ's penchant for hyperbole into account, that's pretty fannish. (And hard to argue with, IMHO.) William Crump - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:20:20 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Euro festivals > > What European music festivals > (featuring > list-relevant - in the broad sense - music) should I > know about, from the > current date onwards? Links to specific > info/schedules would be handy. The one I'd like to attend the most is Jazz em Agosto, in Portugal. I think I can provide a website address for that. Let me check at home. Some names of last year's edition (from the top of my head): Anthony Braxton, Misha Mengelberg, Han Bennink, Peter Brötzmann, Bruno Chevillon, Ellery Eskelin... and the list went on! Regards, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente - http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:02:03 -0400 (EDT) From: konrad Subject: Re: From Zappa to Zorn On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, William Crump wrote: > he called > FZ's Uncle Meat the "best album ever." Even taking JZ's penchant for > hyperbole into account, that's pretty fannish. (And hard to argue with, > IMHO.) Meaning it was FZ's best album ever? That's _easy_ to argue with, but i don't know if there'd be a clear winner. Best collage album? Maybe that'd be easier to defend. The orchestral pieces that came out of the late Mothers and 200 Motels period (UMeat was before that), like Pedro's Dowry and Bogus Pomp are a "movie for your ears" (or "music for your eyes") kind of thing. While not strictly in Zorn's sense of Musical Optics, i think the whole program/cartoon/pastiche approach was really FZ's strength carried on with the sense of the theatrics of performance (some might say hamming it up) that came through Varese, Stockhausen, Cage, and from his early success playing the bicycle on the Steve Allen's show. I realize that Zorn's lineage is more 'downtown' and Zappa's is more 'garage band' but what i like in common is this theater aspect. konrad ^Z - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:09:25 From: "William York" Subject: Re: From Zappa to Zorn For fear of starting another pro- vs. anti-Zappa thread (please don't let it happen), here are the things I have noticed/read/observed regarding connections between the two: - -Zorn has mentioned listening to Zappa when he was growing up in the sixties, after getting into rock with the Doors, Beatles, but then quicly geting into "the weird stuff." - -Zorn mentions Zappa on a positive note in the Spillane liner notes, both the original and the reissue. - -Zorn also said something like "he was really special" in the JazzTimes interview from a year and a half ago, although he also made a point of saying how the two were different (well, one way that the two were different), in that Zorn didn't have the motivation or interest to go after all the political issues as Zappa. - -someone on the list a while back mentioned seeing Zorn at a questionnaire-type session in NYC and Zorn said that _Uncle Meat_ was Zappa's best (the more I listen to it, the more I tend to agree, but that's another story...) - -I do think Lumpy Gravy or even Greggary Peccary (which I really don't enjoy) could be considered precursors to "Spillane" and "Godard" in at least some small sense, and I think someone else on the list has mentioned this, even if there are some pretty fundamental differences, too. I need to listen to it again, but I could have sworn I heard some little sample from "Greggary Peccary" in "Godard" -- Billy the Mountain laughing, very briefly. >There was the ancient bad blood between FZ and Lou Reed/VU as well Not to mention VU/Lou Reed FANS vs. Zappa fans ... but I think this problem w/ the musicians originally came up in part because they were on the same record label at the time, and even had the same producer, Tom Wilson. >Zappa had few good words for anyone alive except Nicholas Slonimsky, so >i >doubt he said anything interesting about Zorn, if he payed attention >at >all. I doubt he was even familiar with Zorn, since he didn't pay much attention to new music from what I gather. But I do remember reading him (Zappa) praising Mr. Bungle at some point. (Although, despite the misconception, there are far fewer connections between Mr. Bungle and Zappa than between Zappa and Zorn). Also, Zappa had few good words about many living people in music at all, unfortunately, whether in rock or classical. BUT, he had a lot of nice things to say about Pierre Boulez, for one, who is certainly in the "art world" (as opposed to entertainment). Being a once-obsessive fan (in various stages of recovery) of Zappa, Zorn, VU, and Mr. Bungle, I keep track of this stuff, which is why I still remember specific wordings and such. I have problemes, I know. WY P.S. thanks for the Fell/Wilkinson/Hession recommendations. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:24:34 -0400 (EDT) From: konrad Subject: Re: From Zappa to Zorn On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, William York wrote: > For fear of starting another pro- vs. anti-Zappa thread (please don't let it Oh shit: i didn't know that was possible (or historically a pastime) on this list. I CERTAINLY don't want to enter into that either. What a waste of electricity! > Also, Zappa had few good words about many living people in music at all, > unfortunately, whether in rock or classical. BUT, he had a lot of nice > things to say about Pierre Boulez, for one, who is certainly in the "art > world" (as opposed to entertainment). Although IIRC the liner notes for the half Boulez-conducted album (The Perfect Stranger) explicitly state that it is NOT "art." Thanks for your thoughts, Will. konrad ^Z - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:34:06 From: "William York" Subject: Re: two british jazz-related questions <> >www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/labels/flo/flo013.html Ah, Panicstepper. Thank you. I looked around more and found the label page, which in part says this: "...influenced by such disperate elements as the New York downtown scene (Zorn, DNA…), Hip Hop, Digital Hardcore, Motown, Parliament/Funkadelic, and the Japanese Now Wave movement (Boredoms, Melt Banana, Merzbow…)...." An MP3 is at and it doesn't sound so minblowing, but that could be b/c my computer sound system is so impossibly screwed up ... WY _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:45:20 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: From Zappa to Zorn On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:09:08AM -0700, Tom Gatzen wrote: > It's probably because their last names end with Z that > they turned out to be great artists. They had more > time to create while they were waiting to be called on > in school. I certainly hope that that is true :-) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:16:13 EDT From: DvdBelkin@aol.com Subject: Re: From Zappa to Zorn In a message dated 6/13/01 2:02:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, konrad@panix.com writes: > I realize that Zorn's lineage is more 'downtown' and Zappa's is more > 'garage band' but what i like in common is this theater aspect. Don't know to what extent this was a conscious influence, but in this respect I can hear some Ives behind both of 'em. David - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:08:46 +0200 From: patRice Subject: Re: From Zappa to Zorn William York wrote: > > Being a once-obsessive fan (in various stages of recovery) of Zappa, Zorn, > VU, and Mr. Bungle, I keep track of this stuff, which is why I still > remember specific wordings and such. I have problemes, I know. > LOL - don't worry about it, William! Some people would give a lot to have the same kind of memory as you!!! ;-) patRice np: Missing Persons, Rhyme & Reason (BTW: They are doing a reunion tour with the original line-up of Bozzio/Bozzio/Cuccurullo/(O'Hearn) this summer! Cuccurullo quit Duran Duran - who will also do a reunion tour with the complete original line-up - Rhodes/LeBon/Taylor/Taylor/Taylor) nr: Haruki Murakami, Sputnik Sweetheart - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:28:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: New Skopelitis Recording A new record featuring guitarist Nicky Skopelitis is available on a Greek label, M Records (website ). It=B4s a trio effort called _Ou= r Trip So Far: Thessaloniki, New York, Istanbul_, and also features reed player Floros Floridis and Okay Temiz on percussion and "electronic pyramid" (?). A real Levantine mish-mash, very much its own thing - great sense of fun and inventiveness - maybe a distant cousin to Hellborg/Buckethead/Shrieve=B4s _Octave of the Holy Innocents_, but with woodwinds and electricity? Regards, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:56:44 +0200 From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: Euro festivals not very close to greece, but highly interesting is the jazzfestival saalfelden (www.jazzsaalfelden.at). I haven't seen their actual program yet, but in the last few years it was great. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech NP: Erik M - Frame WE - Decentertainment NR: William S Burroughs - The Western Lands - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:57:17 +0200 (MEST) From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: Goodbye 20th Century 3rd and final night of SY in Holland, with a fantastic performance based on SYR4... If you thought the record was good (or very good as I did), go see them!!! Amazingly nice performance, totally coherent and inspired. In the city theater of Amsterdam, a very nice setting, full of people of diverse styles and ages who seemd to really enjoy the event. Amazing to have this big, old styled theater filled with SY's massive sound. Nice lighting also. They played Cage (Six, Four.Six, the latter with help of locals Cor Fuhler and Ab Baars), K. Boehmer's Echelon, Yoko Ono's scream trilogy, Terney's "having never written a note for percussion", a piece by George McKane(?) called "Carpenter piece" which was mainly nailing the keys of a piano, a C. Wolff a C.Cardew a Higgins and a S.Reich piece. Sadly no pendulum. Plus a couple of their pieces, incl. a fiery version of "NYC ghosts and flowers". A small discussion was organised after the concert with T.Moore, L.Ranaldo, J. O'Roorke, W. Winant, K. Boehmer about the tour, the music the composers, etc. Pretty interesting even though a better prepared interviewer would have made it better. Highlights from the discussion: >guy from the public: You live in NYC, where also John Zorn lives. Where you ever asked to participate in one of his game pieces? >TM: Well, John is a very nice guy ...(blah blah)... he asked me once to participate in a game piece but I told him: "John, I dont play games." At some other point, while discussing reaction from the public to their 20th Century concerts, TM said that often the public just yells old song titles. And Jim went further saying that they will keep playing this until the public starts asking them for different pieces of John Cage. All in all, after 3 nights in a row of SY experience, tonight I will miss them. Efren; jump fences, crawl under them, dig a tunnel. Just be there!!! manolis - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:35:16 -0700 From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Igor Wakhevitch Could someone please confirm that Igor Wakhevitch is still alive and well, and if so what he has been up to since 1979's "Let's Start?" Thanks in advance - RdF. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:41:51 -0400 (EDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pierre=20Toussaint?= Subject: Zorn on Zappa Hi, I was writing a paper on Zorn and what I call is political aesthetic so I read a lot of interviews and stuff. Anyway, here's all I know of Zorn on Zappa. From Bill Milkowsi (2000) One future, Two Views. Conversations with Wynton Marsalis and John Zorn. Jazztimes (march). p. 28-35, 118-121. Q: You've traveled a lot with Masada and spread the word by taking the music to the people, much in the same way that Frank Zappa spread his own message. A: Zappa was a very special person. He was very articulate; he really cared about politics. He had a lot of things going for him. I can't step in Zappa's shoes. I'm not politically aware. I don't read newspapers; I don't read magazines; I don't watch television. So I have no idea. Zappa was on top of everything, man. He was really amazing. I'm not really an articulate, politically minded, forward thinking person with goals that wants the world to be this way or that way. I'm not an interesting interview in that regard. I wish I was. I wish there was someone who could be there in Zappa's place. I'm not the guy. For me it's more about doing things than babbling about it. (...) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:10:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "M.B." Subject: Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) - --- Tosh wrote: > For those hard to find books try www.abebooks.com or > bookfinders.com > > Ciao, > > > -- > Tosh Berman > TamTam Books > http://www.tamtambooks.com Thanks for the links, luckily I found a copy under $50 with shipping included. Now if I could only find the original Joan O'Brien novel "The Day The Clown Cried" based off the Lewis film. Does anyone have any book recs within a similar vein as Hogg or equally disturbing on a multitude of levels? Thanks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:20:29 -0700 From: William Crump Subject: Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) "M.B." wrote: > Does anyone have any book recs within a similar vein > as Hogg or equally disturbing on a multitude of > levels? Delany's "Equinox" (originally published in the late 60s as "Tides of Lust") is pretty disturbing. It was reissued a few years ago by RhinocEROS. If you've read Delany's memoir, this is the book he worked on only while sexually excited, even the parts other than the sex scenes. William Crump - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:30:24 -0700 From: Tosh Subject: Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) > Does anyone have any book recs within a similar vein > as Hogg or equally disturbing on a multitude of > levels? > > Thanks > Boy don't get me started! First of all I think Zorn's current list of his favorite reads are really good. For instance, I loved the Raymond Roussel biography. Fascinating wacky (and great writer - of course most everything by him is out-of-print) personality. I would also like to recommend someone who is actually very popular but I feel that she doesn't get the credit she deserves - and that's Patricia Highsmith. Her work is totally amoral creepiness. And of course anything by Georges Bataille (Story of the Eye - my personal favorite of his) and works by Patrick Hamilton. Very disturbing insight into the British working class during the WW2 years. J.G. Ballard's Crash is another great. And if I may give myself and TamTam Books a little plug: Serge Gainsbourg's Evguenie Sokolov and Boris Vian's I Spit on Your Graves. - -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:11:48 -0400 From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) > Does anyone have any book recs within a similar vein > as Hogg or equally disturbing on a multitude of > levels? Other than the Burroughs, Sade, Celine, Genet, etc lineage? How about: Iain Banks - The Wasp Factory Iain Sinclair - Downriver Rochester - poetry Denis Johnson - Jesus' Son David Thomson - Suspects some people are big on Ian McEwan and Kathy Acker but I've found them to be of little interest - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:22:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "M.B." Subject: Re: Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) - --0-1804289383-992546545=:12768 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ - --0-1804289383-992546545=:12768 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from [199.177.59.174] by web13205.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:21:58 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:21:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "M.B." Subject: Re: Re: HOGG/ was Delany (no zorn) To: wlt4@mindspring.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Length: 1021 - --- wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: > > Does anyone have any book recs within a similar > vein > > as Hogg or equally disturbing on a multitude of > > levels? > > Other than the Burroughs, Sade, Celine, Genet, etc > lineage? How about: I'm already familiar with those authors, my favorite out of that list being Celine.... > > Iain Banks - The Wasp Factory I actually just finished this book a few months ago. The brutal scenes of animal cruelty bothered me quite a bit. The kite scene also left me uneasy. > Iain Sinclair - Downriver > Rochester - poetry > Denis Johnson - Jesus' Son > David Thomson - Suspects > > some people are big on Ian McEwan and Kathy Acker > but I've found them to be of little interest > Not familiar with the above. I tried reading Acker in HS. Tried a few segments of Blood and Guts in HS here and there, it just didnt do anything for me.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ - --0-1804289383-992546545=:12768-- - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #466 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? 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