From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #490 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, July 6 2001 Volume 03 : Number 490 In this issue: - Re: free improv (was Chadbourne) monk New Music in RealAudio Re: Reviews of Maldoror (Ipecac) fantomas - director's cut nickelsdorf query Fwd: fantomas - director's cut Re: nickelsdorf query Re: nickelsdorf query Re: free improv (was Chadbourne) Re: did I miss something? fred frith - clearing bill laswell/ talvin singh Re: bill laswell/ talvin singh Re: free improv (was Chadbourne) Re: free improv (was Chadbourne) Re: fred frith - clearing RE: bill laswell/ talvin singh Massacre - Frith, Laswell, Hayward... Bill Laswell new zorn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:32:42 From: "William York" Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne) If you want to read a book about this stuff and are thinking of Chadbourne in particular, I would read his "I Hate the Man That Runs this Bar." It's mostly about surviving and "making it" (a relative term) as a musician, but it says some stuff about his way of playing the guitar. If I remember correctly. It costs like $30 bucks, but it's still one of my better Chadbourne-related purchases in relatively recent times (just considering the very iffy quality level of so much stuff he has released, esp. lately ... ugh). But if you want to talk about improvising that is influenced by guitar shredders (Steve Vai, Eddie Van Halen, etc.) as I think someone mentioned, there is always Trey Azagthoth of Morbid Angel! His solos are completely nuts (and, unless I am sorely mistaken, not written out), and a lot more interesting than much "free improv" guitar -- why is it that improv guitar is so often equated with sticking a piece of plastic or whatever in your strings and avoiding notes or melodies, just using "extended techniques"?? On this note, I guess Hans Reichel is someone good to listen to (or did someone already mention him) ... WY (who thinks permits should be required for table- and lap-top guitar at this stage in the game) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:37:54 -0700 From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: monk i'd have to agree -- monk didn't record much that i don't enjoy. the greatest monk afficionado, steve lacy, has said that monk had lost it by the time he signed with columbia. indeed, he did all but stop writing new songs, and he didn't seem to be seeking out fresh niches of his inner sanctum as ambitiously as in the '50s. and the 15CD complete riverside, recorded in the '50s, is the most stunning collection i've yet to confront. that said, i really enjoy the comubia stuff. charlie rouse suits monk well. monk seems to be exploring a different part of his subconscious, dropping more stylistic references to predecessors (anybody else hear the basie?). and i have one black lion, "the man i love," a trio that's emotive and gorgeous.... i just got the new threeCD columbia, which includes previously released and unreleased + whole original versions of songs originally spliced from several takes. no songs are played twice. nice blend of solo, big band and small group. compiled by orrin keepnews with extensive notes by would-be monk biographer peter keepnews (he's been working on his bio for more than a decade!). very nice set. Martin np. Biosphere - Substrata - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:23:01 -0500 From: Herb Levy Subject: New Music in RealAudio Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , I've put together a feature on Meredith Monk including many recordings of works from the early 1970s through the late 1990s. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0800 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music by Joseph Celli, Chaya Czernowin, Jin Hi Kim, Mary Jane Leach, the London Improvisers Orchestra, Phill Niblock, Vincent Plush, James Tenney, and Lois V Vierk) is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:38:17 +0200 From: FJG_Lamerikx Subject: Re: Reviews of Maldoror (Ipecac) > Have you read the novel by the same name? If you haven't, the logic of the > album will escape you. It was intended to be loosely a musical > interpretation of the work. The novel has a twisted logic (actually the > lack of logic becomes it's logic) of its own. I definite must read even for > non-Patton Fans. Surrealist literature at its most beautiful. Apparently, you are referring to Comte de Lautreamont's "Les chants de Maldoror". Note, however, that the album title refers to another novel, H. Rider Haggard's "She". Furthermore, there are (as always) a number of references to movie titles, such as "Twitch of the Death Nerve" and "The Conqueror Worm" (funny how Patton always chooses the English or even the American titles, when he speaks Italian perfectly...). I am saying this to illustrate my opinion that the album does not follow the novel at all. Of course, it could be expected that, sooner or later, someone like Zorn, Patton, or Masami Akita would use the Maldoror name in whatever context - I bet you that one of these people will use the name Melmoth, too, some day. (Note that there is a historical line from Melmoth to Maldoror to Fantomas to Diabolik). Anyway, the album is just another example of postmodern quoting of references for the sake of quoting references. The only logic is the logic of postmodernism itself. Suffice it to say that I think the "She" album is neither a highlight in Patton's nor in Masami Akita's catalogue. I would agree that "Maldoror" is a must-read, but it is only surrealist literature in the sense that the later surrealists embraced it and declared Lautreamont a surrealist avant-la-lettre. Nowadays, companies like Microsoft get sued for such appropriating tactics... Frankco - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:55:24 EDT From: PaanKu@aol.com Subject: fantomas - director's cut i just picked this album up, i actually found it for $1.99 at a used cd store in boston, and i was wondering what other people thought of it - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:48:45 +0300 From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: nickelsdorf query I see that Konfrontationen (www.konfrontationen.at) in Nickelsdorf Austria 20-22 July has a pretty enticing festival lineup. Anybody already planning on going? Know anything about Nickelsdorf (lodging, venue info, etc)? - -- Vincent Kargatis NP: Billy Harper - "Thine Is the Glory" - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:48:06 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: fantomas - director's cut > i just picked this album up, i actually found it for > $1.99 at a used cd store > in boston, and i was wondering what other people > thought of it Don't know about the album yet. But I'll be glad to let you know how this material sounds live! They're presenting "The Director's Cut" in Barcelona next Wednesday 11. I have a tape of their first concert in San Francisco and it's just incredible. Greetings, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente - http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 05:03:38 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: nickelsdorf query In a message dated 7/6/01 4:49:32 AM, lartis@ath.forthnet.gr writes: << I see that Konfrontationen (www.konfrontationen.at) in Nickelsdorf Austria 20-22 July has a pretty enticing festival lineup. Anybody already planning on going? Know anything about Nickelsdorf (lodging, venue info, etc)? >> the promoter is Hans Falb (jazzgalerie@xpoint.at), who I'm sure would be happy to answer any questions you have. if you go, I expect a full report on the Dafeldecker/Hautzinger/Tilbury/Sachiko quartet. I can't even come close to hearing that one in my head. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:35:36 +0200 From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: nickelsdorf query >I see that Konfrontationen (www.konfrontationen.at) in Nickelsdorf Austria >20-22 July has a pretty enticing festival lineup. Anybody already planning >on going? Know anything about Nickelsdorf (lodging, venue info, etc)? I´ll be there as every year. It´s something like a family meeting of the european free music scene. The atmosphere is great. Lodging is a little bit difficult due to a lack of hotels. I´ll take my tent... See you there! Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:54:36 +0200 From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne) >From: "William York" > >On this note, I guess Hans Reichel is someone good to listen to (or did >someone already mention him) ... Reichel is a good recommendation, but in fact he doesn´t play guitar anymore, but his homemade daxophone. He´s trying to establish it as a serious instrument. I think his guitar playing was much more interesting. Andreas np: Elliott Sharp Terraplane - Blues For Next (Knit) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:01:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel Drummer Subject: Re: did I miss something? First Billy Higgins and last saturday, Joe Henderson. That's two big time bad news for an entire year. Let his soul rest in peace. np: McCoy Tyner "The real McCoy" (with Joe Henderon, Ron Carter and Elvin Jones) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 06:33:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Theo Klaase Subject: fred frith - clearing - --0-123914582-994426435=:59761 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone on the list have this CD? If so, e-mail me privately, a review... I've been trying to get a copy, but every place on the web seems to be "out of stock"... The Tzadik site isn't working - I can't get anything to appear in the shopping cart... - -Theo - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - --0-123914582-994426435=:59761 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

     Does anyone on the list have this CD?  If so, e-mail me privately, a review... I've been trying to get a copy, but every place on the web seems to be "out of stock"...  The Tzadik site isn't working - I can't get anything to appear in the shopping cart...

-Theo


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http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - --0-123914582-994426435=:59761-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:53:24 EDT From: PaanKu@aol.com Subject: bill laswell/ talvin singh Tabla Beat Science - Tala Matrix Does anybody kno anything about this album? a friend of mine picked it up at random and told me about it, its essentially a bill laswell project, i believe dj talvin singh works as a coengineer or something... There isnt a tour is there? - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:25:50 +0200 From: patRice Subject: Re: bill laswell/ talvin singh PaanKu@aol.com wrote: > Tabla Beat Science - Tala Matrix > > Does anybody kno anything about this album? Unfortunately I don't know about this album, but... > a friend of mine picked it up at > random and told me about it, its essentially a bill laswell project, i > believe dj talvin singh works as a coengineer or something... ... Talvin is not primarily a DJ; he's mainly a tabla player & "electronic" dance music "composer". He will soon be touring with a band to promote his latest album. patRice np: Now J-Pop 2001 nr: Japanese Tattoo Institute, Horiyoshi's World Vol. 2 - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:33:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne) - --- William York wrote: > WY (who thinks permits should be required for table- > and lap-top guitar at > this stage in the game) How prevalent is this practice? Keith Rowe talks about it in that WIRE interview like everybody's doing it now, but who is everybody? Is there a surplus of tabloe-top playing, or is it just predictably bad on the (rare) occasions that it does happen? (Excepting the really great players---Frith, Drumm, Rowe, Montera, Tammen, etc.). It still somehow seems like a pretty exotic practice to me; I can't see it having "caught on"... - -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:45:22 -0400 From: "David Beardsley" Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne) Dean Roberts, Donald Miller, Michael Schumacher...to name a few people who use the guitar-on-the-table approach.. David Beardsley - ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Handley > --- William York wrote: > > WY (who thinks permits should be required for table- > > and lap-top guitar at > > this stage in the game) > > How prevalent is this practice? Keith Rowe talks > about it in that WIRE interview like everybody's doing > it now, but who is everybody? Is there a surplus of > tabloe-top playing, or is it just predictably bad on > the (rare) occasions that it does happen? (Excepting > the really great players---Frith, Drumm, Rowe, > Montera, Tammen, etc.). It still somehow seems like a > pretty exotic practice to me; I can't see it having > "caught on"... - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:15:14 -0000 From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: fred frith - clearing > Does anyone on the list have this CD? If so, e-mail me privately, a >review... Nono, on the list! I'm VERY curious about this CD as well... ;-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:19:47 -0500 (CDT) From: kasra@ou.edu Subject: RE: bill laswell/ talvin singh I picked up the album accidentally. I'm familiar with both musicians but had never seen them collaborate. It's a tribute album to Ustad AllaRakkah (Tabla Master). The album consists of tablas being used for a variety of genres. Although I can't really get into some of the writing, the tabla virtuosity is nothing short of spectacular. I have absolutely fallen in love with that instrument. kasra george - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:30:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Theo Klaase Subject: Massacre - Frith, Laswell, Hayward... - --0-1377772895-994444211=:3857 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I must recommend this album to the list... "Funny Valentine" by Massacre... Great energetic improvs on each element involved... Fred Frith's guitar playing is stunningly amazing, unique, and appropriate... Laswell is about as inventive and energetic as I've ever heard him play... This is the first album in which I've had the opportunity of hearing Chris Hayward play -- he's quite productive and he knows when to play and when to relax...He reminds me of a cross between Previte and Chris Wood. I can't stop listening to this CD! Help! I see Massacre has put out another album called "Killing Time." Are these the only 2 albums or are there more? - -Theo - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - --0-1377772895-994444211=:3857 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

       I must recommend this album to the list... "Funny Valentine" by Massacre... Great energetic improvs on each element involved... Fred Frith's guitar playing is stunningly amazing, unique, and appropriate... Laswell is about as inventive and energetic as I've ever heard him play... This is the first album in which I've had the opportunity of hearing Chris Hayward play -- he's quite productive and he knows when to play and when to relax...He reminds me of a cross between Previte and Chris Wood. I can't stop listening to this CD!  Help!

       I see Massacre has put out another album called "Killing Time."  Are these the only 2 albums or are there more? 

-Theo

 


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http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - --0-1377772895-994444211=:3857-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 14:31:51 -0500 (CDT) From: kasra@ou.edu Subject: Bill Laswell Good Afternoon Everybody, The first exposure I received to Bill Laswell was Material's "Hallucination Engine. I was wondering if anybody would tell me about any other Laswell recordings with similar musical explorations. kasra - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:11:43 EDT From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: new zorn - --part1_128.10d5c2e.2877757f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I did hear the new Zorn and found no interest in it > after a first contact. > The computer compositions are just senseless noise > IMHO. I couldn't say it's even hilarious or > entertaining in some way. There was also a composition > with a recitation that could be relatively > highlightable. > All in all, a dull Zorn's release. Boring and > gratuitous and pretentious are the words that come to > my mind Ok. Well. I'm not going to say that Zorn hasn't seemed kind of pretentious, especially as of late, though some of his self-love does hearken back to the liner notes of Spillane. I'm not going to say that the new release is particularly genius, but I will contend that it is at least an inspired collection. Zorn's been at sort of a compositional block lately, I think. What attracted me to his work in the first place was the endless eclecticism and constant striving for new means of musical expression. That stuff is very clear up until the last couple of years. Then, there was a flood of Masada-related stuff, which while I respect, I will admit it got a little bit too comfortable for Zorn at times. A couple of collections of chamber/string pieces, which were written not so recently, and other "classical" compositions, etc.. Zorn looks like he's trying very hard to cement his validity as an important avant-garde composer, which rankles, especially considering most of us (at least on this list) already believe he is, and besides us, who else really matters? Anyway, the new collection, one computer piece and one electronic piece that sound REMARKABLY similar, a piece for Maya Deren, and a piece for Beuys, is at least a very clear break from the recent rehashing. Instead of continuing to hone and refine his skills, as he did on his last chamber release, and the Masada live series, he's back to experimenting, and I, for one, am glad. The electronics pieces do not sound like senseless noise. They are very, very active compositions, however. There is not much in the way of silence and the sounds are distinctly digital, rather than implementing any sort of sampling.. The closest analogy I can make would probably be to Morton Subotnick, or at least one of those computers you hear in cartoons from the 70's. There are definitely some polyphonic rhythmic things happening, though, and some very interesting uses high sine-wave frequencies and white noise as a disrupting factor. The Maya Deren piece, I felt, was the real failure of the album. Who really thinks that bass guitar feedback is that interesting? I really loved "Redbird", and this ain't no "Redbird". I'm not entirely sure what my reasoning is, but I really found the Deren piece to be entirely a failure, except for the sample of Maya Deren speaking, and that was only because she has something interesting to say. The real stand-out piece is "Beuysblock", the instrumentation was nicely assembled, though I felt the implementation of more traditional instruments, the violin and the piano, were sort of a concession on Zorn's behalf. Though I do feel it is the strongest work on the album, I also felt rather let down by it. The were so many compositional possibilities with the instrumentation selected on the new cd, and it seems like Zorn just ignored them and focused on the instrumentation itself. Which would be enough for, say, Morton Feldman. I don't know. I'd like to see him continue in this line of work, and I give him credit for not jumping on the IDM bandwagon or just making some piece of Musique Concrete, but this album just isn't the bomb-diggity as I was hoping. from, matt - --part1_128.10d5c2e.2877757f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I did hear the new Zorn and found no interest in it
> after a first contact.
> The computer compositions are just senseless noise
> IMHO. I couldn't say it's even hilarious or
> entertaining in some way. There was also a composition
> with a recitation that could be relatively
> highlightable.
> All in all, a dull Zorn's release. Boring and
> gratuitous and pretentious are the words that come to
> my mind

Ok. Well. I'm not going to say that Zorn hasn't seemed kind of pretentious,
especially as of late, though some of his self-love does hearken back to the
liner notes of Spillane. I'm not going to say that the new release is
particularly genius, but I will contend that it is at least an inspired
collection. Zorn's been at sort of a compositional block lately, I think.
What attracted me to his work in the first place was the endless eclecticism
and constant striving for new means of musical expression. That stuff is very
clear up until the last couple of years. Then, there was a flood of
Masada-related stuff, which while I respect, I will admit it got a little bit
too comfortable for Zorn at times. A couple of collections of chamber/string
pieces, which were written not so recently, and other "classical"
compositions, etc.. Zorn looks like he's trying very hard to cement his
validity as an important avant-garde composer, which rankles, especially
considering most of us (at least on this list)  already believe he is, and
besides us, who else really matters?
Anyway, the new collection, one computer piece and one electronic piece that
sound REMARKABLY similar, a piece for Maya Deren, and a piece for Beuys, is
at least a very clear break from the recent rehashing.
Instead of continuing to hone and refine his skills, as he did on his last
chamber release, and the Masada live series, he's back to experimenting, and
I, for one, am glad.
The electronics pieces do not sound like senseless noise. They are very, very
active compositions, however. There is not much in the way of silence and the
sounds are distinctly digital, rather than implementing any sort of
sampling.. The closest analogy I can make would probably be to Morton
Subotnick, or at least one of those computers you hear in cartoons from the
70's. There are definitely some polyphonic rhythmic things happening, though,
and some very interesting uses high sine-wave frequencies and white noise as
a disrupting factor. The Maya Deren piece, I felt, was the real failure of
the album. Who really thinks that bass guitar feedback is that interesting? I
really loved "Redbird", and this ain't no "Redbird".  I'm not entirely sure
what my reasoning is, but I really found the Deren piece to be entirely a
failure, except for the sample of Maya Deren speaking, and that was only
because she has something interesting to say.
The real stand-out piece is "Beuysblock", the instrumentation was nicely
assembled, though I felt the implementation of more traditional instruments,
the violin and the piano, were sort of a concession on Zorn's behalf.  Though
I do feel it is the strongest work on the album, I also felt rather let down
by it. The were so many compositional possibilities with the instrumentation
selected on the new cd, and it seems like Zorn just ignored them and focused
on the instrumentation itself. Which would be enough for, say, Morton
Feldman.
I don't know. I'd like to see him continue in this line of work, and I give
him credit for not jumping on the IDM bandwagon or just making some piece of
Musique Concrete, but this album just isn't the bomb-diggity as I was hoping.

from,
matt
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