From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #579 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, October 2 2001 Volume 03 : Number 579 In this issue: - Re: Dave Douglas Witness - sextet version Frederic Rzewski in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning Oct 2, 2001 Re: Jazz History What Influenced "The Gift"? Re: new Zorn fan, and intro; Re: Jazz History Re: Jazz History Re: FANTOMAS, PATTON, ETC. Re: Jazz History Re: new Zorn fan, and intro; ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 19:52:07 EDT From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: Dave Douglas Witness - sextet version >>Hi all: Someone asked recently about a sextet version of Dave Douglas's Witness band that was about to hit the road. An excellent review from the New York Times last week reveals the members: Douglas, Chris Potter (subbing for Chris Speed), Jamie Saft, Ikue Mori, Brad Jones, Michael Sarin. The review emphasized that with this project, Douglas has become the first jazz musician to meet the electronic micro-prov scene head on, and successfully, at that. E-mail me privately if you want to see it. Steve Smith<< Thanks Steve for the info. I was curious about the lineup since I was going to see them next week in Santa Cruz. The Seattle lineup sounded a little off, listing Craig Taborn which would make 2 keyboardists. Since I had previously looked at davedouglas.com, I was expecting the string group with the addition of Speed, Daly, and Mori. I haven't gotten around to getting the cd yet. How is it? I presume its one of his more adventurous discs. Cheers, John Threadgould np Le Phare- Sclavis & Struber Jazztet - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:33:26 -0500 From: Herb Levy Subject: Frederic Rzewski in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning Oct 2, 2001 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear music by Frederic Rzewski, including Attica, Coming Together, De Profundis, 4 North American Ballads, Mayn Yingele, Les moutons de Panurge, Song & Dance, 36 Variations on "The People United Will Never Be Defeated," and Whangdoodles. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0500 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music by Battuto, John Butcher & Derek Bailey, John Butcher & Rhodri Davies, Axel Dorner/Fred Lonberg-Holm/Michael Zerang, Double Double, Arnold Dreyblatt, Emergency Quartet, Mel Graves, Caroline Kraabel, Helmut Lachenmann, Steuart Liebig, Evan Parker/Barry Guy/Lawrence Casserley, Quatour Accorde, Rebecca Saunders, Space Between, Philipp Wachsmann, and Julia Wolfe) is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:12:59 -0700 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Jazz History > I've been looking at Jazz History Compilations. I've noticed lack of > representation of the last 10-20 (maybe even 30) years of development. I > don't think Wynton Marsalis is representative of jazz of the 80s and 90s, > though I could be biased or wrong. What recordings/artists would the > posters include on an accurate history of jazz compilation CD? Thanks > > Zach > > - Zach -- I'm not a fan of all these people, but they all seem to have made a mark that has changed something about the complexion of jazz, for better or worse (and that's strictly a matter of individual taste). 70s Cedar Walton's Eastern Rebellion the "reborn" Dexter Gordon & Art Pepper Pat Martino Weather Report Mahavishnu Rahsaan Roland Kirk Carla Bley Jaco Pastorious Pat Metheny Billy Cobham Keith Jarrett solo Richie Beirach/Dave Liebman Grover Washington Jr Brecker Bros Herbie Hancock 80s Mike Stern John Scofield Tim Berne John Zorn Bill Frisell w/Joey Baron James Blood Ulmer Wynton/Branford Marsalis Kenny Garrett Marc Ribot 90s Don Byron Dave Douglas Mark Feldman Diana Kral Holly Cole Leon Parker Charlie Hunter Ellery Eskelin Joe Lovano Uri Caine - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:25:34 -0400 From: "andrew" Subject: What Influenced "The Gift"? Hey everyone- I absolutely LOVE "the gift." I'm curious as to what you guys think of it, but i'm also curious about a few things... mainly, what artists influenced the sound of "the gift"? I like it so much, that I want to find more stuff like it. Besides the obvious influences- Martin Denny, Antonio Carlos Jobim, etc.- what albums/artists/composers are similar in vibe, aesthetics, and sound to "the gift"? I really love "the quiet surf"- i've always loved the tremelo-d out surf guitar sound, but what artists have done that more "chilled out surf music", as opposed to the shredding and rave-ups of Dick Dale, the Ventures, the Surfaris, Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet, etc. I love that stuff, but what artists/compoers specialize in that "chilled surf" sound? Also, i love "snake catcher"- it's one of my favorites. What other stuff out there sounds like that/has a similar vibe? Ditto for "mao's moon"- i love the almost noir vibe that the song has- and douglas' trumpet is exquisite. What other stuff out there reflects the vibe of this song? Thanks for your help and insight... andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:29:54 -0400 From: "andrew" Subject: Re: new Zorn fan, and intro; Thanks for the help, everyone; I'm a huge Morricone fan, so i'm going to check out "the big gundown", and "elegy" sounds great as well. Then, it's on to the Filmworks series...i love the first one, and I hear number 4 is great. Also, "songs from the hermetic theatre" sounds interesting, although I can't find a copy yet.....and I heard he did a really cool album of Cartoon music, which sounds interesting as well. What about Naked City's "Grand Guignol"? I only have the self-titled one...how does "GG' compare? Same with "Music for children: music romance 1"- i hear it's a lot noisier than the other two music romance albums. What's the word on this album? Thanks! andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:18:38 -0400 From: "andrew" Subject: Re: Jazz History > Diana Krall I have to take issue with this one; she's about as essential to the history of jazz as marsha ball. (ugh). But seriously; other jazz greats of the 90's- Susie Ibarra- One of the most amazing drummers/percussionists i've heard, alone, or with her ensemble and others. What about the downtown NYC gods? William Parker (bass)and Matthew Shipp (piano/keys)? These guys are really re-inventing, and are destined to be legendary (hell, they already are). Also- Brad Mehldau has done some decent stuff; at least he's attempting to be relevant by covering Radiohead, instead of the same tired standards. :) Andrew Horton, Music Director WUVT 90.7FM, Blacksburg, VA wuvt.music@vt.edu www.wuvt.vt.edu Office Phone- (540)-231-9881 AOL Instant Messenger: Yrblueshogun - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 00:24:55 -0700 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Jazz History >> Diana Krall > > I have to take issue with this one; she's about as essential to the history > of jazz as marsha ball. (ugh). > > But seriously; other jazz greats of the 90's- > > Susie Ibarra- One of the most amazing drummers/percussionists i've heard, > alone, or with her ensemble and others. > > What about the downtown NYC gods? William Parker (bass)and Matthew Shipp > (piano/keys)? These guys are really re-inventing, and are destined to be > legendary (hell, they already are). > > Also- Brad Mehldau has done some decent stuff; at least he's attempting to > be relevant by covering Radiohead, instead of the same tired standards. :) > Whether or not you like someone or what they do doesn't mean they haven't made a mark. Ms Krall has been bashed by people who claim to be really smart or really hip, but those people tend to overlook the fact that she's popularized a certain segment of the American songbook and done so in a jazz way. Personally, I don't think it's her job to be Tim berne. She's a good pianist (although far from a great one), and a singer with a lot of taste, even if her delivery is not always really exciting. She is to jazz what George Strait is to country music, and I personally think George Strait is more listenable than just about any hat act. He's a very conservative traditionalist, but I am by no means repelled either by traditionalism or -- if it's tempered with taste -- conservativism. I take exception to people who label her the anti-Christ. She's a person who sings standards. She happens to be a looker. She can actually use her sexuality to sell some records full of Russell Malone solos. Works for me. Personally I don't find William Parker to be as interesting as certain other bass players, and Matthew Shipp doesn't move me much at all. As for covering Radiohead making you relevant, I don't know. I don't think their tunes are all that special, and, as much as Brad is a brilliant pianist, I don't really hear anything in him I haven't heard in other pianists, at least not in the sense of hearing things in Joey Baron that I never really heard in other drummers. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:06:10 +0200 From: patRice Subject: Re: FANTOMAS, PATTON, ETC. Totally agree that all the Bungle releases are worth having. I got the 1st one just after it came out - and although I've listened to it A LOT, I still enjoy hearing it every single time I put it on. "California" is well described by Matthew, as is "Disco Volante". Just buy them all! patRice np: Fantomas, The Director's Cut nr: Thomas Wilson, Swastika - Earliest Known Symbol And Its Migrations Matthew Mitchell wrote: > All the Bungles are worth getting, though I still hold Disco Volante > to be the best. It's definitely the weirdest, the most experimental, > though there's an experimental edge to everything the band does. > California is them trying to be the Beach Boys meets metal meets film > music meets Taraf de Haidouks, etc. It's the poppiest of them all, so > if you like catchy melodies, that's the one. The first one is great, > the most party-oriented, though I'm totally burned out on it. It came > out when I was a junior in high school, and for two years, that, > Torture Garden and Frank Zappa dominated about 75% of my listening. > The Zappa is all that's held up for me over the years, FWIW. If you > haven't heard it, though, definitely get it. > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 04:06:53 -0400 From: "andrew" Subject: Re: Jazz History > Whether or not you like someone or what they do doesn't mean they haven't > made a mark. Ms Krall has been bashed by people who claim to be really > smart or really hip, but those people tend to overlook the fact that she's > popularized a certain segment of the American songbook and done so in a jazz > way. Personally, I don't think it's her job to be Tim berne. She's a good > pianist (although far from a great one), and a singer with a lot of taste, > even if her delivery is not always really exciting. She is to jazz what > George Strait is to country music, and I personally think George Strait is > more listenable than just about any hat act. He's a very conservative > traditionalist, but I am by no means repelled either by traditionalism or -- > if it's tempered with taste -- conservativism. I take exception to people > who label her the anti-Christ. She's a person who sings standards. She > happens to be a looker. She can actually use her sexuality to sell some > records full of Russell Malone solos. Works for me. But that's exactly my point; there's no correlation between an artist's ability to make something accesible/easily consumable to the masses, and their contribution to the history of the artform. George Straight has done absolutely nothing to further the boundaries of Country music; one could argue that he's actually done harm to the genre! Sure, ol' George has played pop music with a country face on it (go ahead and lump in Garth, Faith Hill, Shania, etc.), and made that particular package accessible to people that want something with a little twang in it, but in the long history of "country" music (go ahead and start with Child's collected ballads, then continue through the Carters, Harry Smith's anthologies and the Lomax's recordings, and the country stars of the 40's, 50's, 60's, etc.), Straight hasn't furthered the art one bit. He's simply packaged up cliches ("born country!") and made them accessible. What of songwriters like Jeff Tweedy and Jay Farrar (of Uncle Tupelo together, recently of Wilco and Son Volt, respectively) who concocted songs that were undeniably "country", but also contained themes, aesthetics, and even SOUNDS (mellotrons, vocoders, analogue synths) that were literally at odds with country music. What of the Handsome Family, who bring a Cole Porter-esque sensibility to songs that can only be described as 100% "traditional" country songs, yet contain lyrics that are violent, maudlin mini-stories, dripping of Poe and Gorey? Then, there's the fact that they record their songs in Pro-Tools, and often employ synthetic instruments. What of Johnny Dowd, who has re-invented the murder ballad? These artists aren't known to the "majority" of people, like Straight, Garth, Shania, etc., yet they have done far more for the genre than those "mainstream" artists. Following the rationale that Krall has made that music accessible, is Kenny G also an important figure in the history of Jazz? He's a lot like Zorn... (wink). > Personally I don't find William Parker to be as interesting as certain other > bass players, >and Matthew Shipp doesn't move me much at all. I totally agree with you; yet some of their experiments have been amazing from any point-of-view. Shipp's "pastoral composure" taught me to listen to the piano (of course, that's just a personal observation), and Parker's Magic Huey Orchestra (i fucked-up the name, but i can't quite remember it right now) re-invented the "big band." > As for covering Radiohead making you relevant, I don't know. I don't think > their tunes are all that special, and, as much as Brad is a brilliant > pianist, I don't really hear anything in him I haven't heard in other > pianists, at least not in the sense of hearing things in Joey Baron that I > never really heard in other drummers. Great point. My argument "for" Mehldau is actually similar to yours for Diana Krall, but there's a crucial difference. Krall is serving re-hashed standards (which are tired, "tried-but-true" songs that "everyone knows") to predominantly complacent listeners. In the same sense that, say, Alicia Keyes allows them to "add a little R&B to their collection", Krall or Kenny G allow them to "add a little easy-listenin' jazz" to their musical collection. No new avenues are opened; the listener isn't compelled to seek out more, denser jazz; they're happy with their "token" jazz album. Mehldau is similar- he makes slightly-avant piano jazz accessible to "rock kids." I'm the music director at a college radio station, and I can't tell you how many kids have used Mehldau's "radiohead covers" as stepping-stones to the world of jazz. In that sense, Mehldau's appropriation of Radiohead's songs acts as a "gateway drug" to the world of jazz; which is inherently denser than the world of rock. =) Kids hear Mehldau relating to something that they relate to; radiohead- and they begin to listen to the way that he works with the song. They check out his other songs; they begin to truly listen. They come to me, asking "this is great; what next"? I refer them to Shipp, to Uri Caine, to Zorn and also to Monk- they begin to explore on their own. I guess my argument for Mehldau, over Krall, is that Mehldau makes the music (jazz) accessible to those that then venture forth within the genre- learning about it, appreciating it. Krall simply takes the genre, condenses it into an easily purchasable, easily digestible package, and serves it up to the complacent listener. (of course, this is a personal judgement, but that's what opinions are about). On a similar note (to the Mehldau rationale), Uri Caine is making jazz/dense funk accessible to hip hop fans; through his work with Ahmir "Questlove" of the Roots. The Philadelphia Experiment album has sold heaps at the store I work at, mostly to hip hop kids who are really looking for something less ephemeral than the latest MC/producer combo. The association- with Questlove- allows them to enjoy Caine's stellar nu-funk. Whew....enough talking. I await repsonses! andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:17:09 +0200 From: patRice Subject: Re: new Zorn fan, and intro; andrew wrote: > Thanks for the help, everyone; I'm a huge Morricone fan, so i'm going to > check out "the big gundown", and "elegy" sounds great as well. Good decision, Andrew. They are both fantastic releases. Like someone else already pointed out: make sure you get the "Big Gundown 15th Anniversary" issue that came out on Tzadik. > > > Then, it's on to the Filmworks series...i love the first one, and I hear > number 4 is great. Can't remember right now which is which, but I do remember that the one that has "Pablo" on it is very good. I feel that you might like this track; very laid-back. (As far as I remember, Zorn wrote in the liner notes that this was one of his best pieces to date.) > > What about Naked City's "Grand Guignol"? I only have the self-titled > one...how does "GG' compare? Personally I feel that all the Naked City releases are very different from one another; and all of them worth having. "Grand Guignol" starts off with a 17-minute improvised (or game?) piece - can't remember exactly... Then there are about eight tracks that are re-arrangements of classical pieces by Debussy, Orlando Di Lasso (sp?), and some others. After those tracks you get all the "Torture Garden" tracks, minus the ones that were already featured on the self-titled debut album. I also recommend you check out NC's "Radio", if you enjoy "The Gift" so much. > Same with "Music for children: music romance 1"- i hear it's a lot noisier > than the other two music romance albums. What's the word on this album? If I remember correctly, this is the one featuring the band Prelapse, playing some previously unrecorded "Torture Garden" era pieces; I did not like the sound of Prelapse at all. There was something missing. There's also a, weird-ish, I feel, classical piece - violin, percussion and ??? (can't remember). Still don't like it that much... Also a piece dedicated to Edgard Varese; for wind-machines. Sounds interesting, but I can't listen to it too often... Hope this helps. patRice - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #579 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? 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