From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #593 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Sunday, October 14 2001 Volume 03 : Number 593 In this issue: - Re: New Wave Re: Mail Order (no Zcon) Re: New Wave (naming confusion) scenes.montreal.music Re: Mail Order (no Zcon) Re: New Wave re: New Wave + street sax player Re: New Wave Re: Massacre Live? Tzadik Cds A. Leroy Um - Stray Dogs [new record from ropeadope] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 15:29:39 +0100 From: duncan youngerman Subject: Re: New Wave I beg to differ about New Wave being a corporation invention in reaction to Punk=2E (Was'nt it Punk in fact which was fabricated by this English publici= ty guy whose name escapes me?) The source of what became known as New Wave can be traced to Warhol's Factory and the Velvet Underground in the mid-60's and then David Bowie and Glam Rock (T-Rex, NY Dolls, Roxy Music, etc=2E) in the early-mid 70's=2E New Wave had a dead-pan ironic, intentionally caricatural twist on issues of sex, gender, identity, culture, violence and earlier musical and visual clich=E9s of 50's and early-mid 60's Rock=2E New Wave groups were a reaction to what by 1975 had become as institutional as McDonald's cheeseburgers, the long-haired, lead guitar-driven macho band (Led Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, etc=2E)=2E I remember well how refreshing an= d subversive the short hair, suits and synth-oriented musical approach was=2E Aside from obvious bands like the B-52's, the Cars, Talking Heads, Soft Cell, the Stranglers or Elvis Costello, bands as varied as Kraftwerk, Police, or the Stray Cats could be considered New Wave=2E I remember hearing really creative bands in clubs which never recorded or hit the big time but deserved to, such as the Maps (anyone remember them?), a kind of autistic Jefferson Airplane, or Human Sexual Response, who had a local hit "I wanna be Jackie Onassis", both from Boston=2E It was a very exciting period of self-rediscovery for Rock music which lasted from about 1976 to 1981=2E DY "&c=2E" a =E9crit : > I hear the term New Wave a lot and have a loose idea as to what it means, > but what exactly classifies New Wave and distinguishes it from other pop > music from the 80s? > > Thanks > Zach > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:44:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Mail Order (no Zcon) Thomas: Verge www.vergemusic.com info@vergemusic.com prices are in canadian dollars so may or may not be a good deal for you. (no affiliation etc.) Ken Waxman - --- thomas chatterton wrote: > I know this question has gone round the list before, > but I've been growing > frustrated with some of the usual sources for mail > order CDs (especially > Bent Crayon!), and was wondering if anyone had any > suggestions for some > other good online retailers along the lines of > Forced Exposure. Especially > if there is any place that deals specifically in > the music that gets > discussed here... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:54:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Hiznay Subject: Re: New Wave (naming confusion) No, no, no, no, no..... the term "New Wave" was originally coined to describe the large number of new Brittish groups which were climbing up the American pop charts in the early 80's as opposed to the Old Wave (Mod)explosion of the 60's (Beatles, Who, Rolling Stones, Kinks, etc.) that's why Elvis Costello gets bunched up with the synth pop bands, he happened to be English, new to American audiences and popular. By the time Devo got popular enough (and bland enough) to appear on the pop charts the term had metamorphosized to mean Synth-Pop and so a lot of American bands were lumped into the New Wave category, that's why it's so hard to explain, it was originally meant to mean one thing and wound up meaning another...kinda like the words "Industrial" and "Noise" and "Garage". "Industrial" once being the predecessors to the "Industrial" Pop music, such as Scraping Foetus from the Wheel, and Einstuze Neubauten, along with numerous fantastically inovative idiots with tablesaws and re-wired amplified radios. Crossovers (such as Foetus, Sheep on Drugs, etc.)paved the way for people to use the term as "Industrial" pop...Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, Marylin Manson, etc. The bands who were doin' the table saw/rewired radio stuff nearly went insane at thier own insanity being intruded upon and started calling themselves "Noise" bands, however, some of these people happened to be people like crossovers like "Foetus" so sometimes now you can even see "Industrial" Pop bands calling themselves "Noise" bands. On the other hand, in a totally different phenomena, "Garage", meaning homeschool very straight (mod) punkrock has since been adopted by a sector of the Techno crowd, I still don't understand what differentiates "Garage" from other forms of techno, I can understand "Drum and Bass" "Drill and Bass" "Gabba" "BPM" "Techno" "Breakbeat" "Acid House" "Trip Hop", but the stereotypes of this form of electronica still escape me, I digress, I have no Idea what the connection is here, someone please tell me? perhaps kids in thier garages these days try to make techno music? mushmush __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT) From: jason tors Subject: scenes.montreal.music I am interested in exploring the Montreal creative music scene. Looking to the collective knowledge of the zlist for help with some musicians to check out, some locations that harbor creative music scenes and just a general feel for what is happening [if possible] in the montreal area. Please respond privately. I just moved up to northern NH, still jittery about not being able to go to tonic when ever anything looks interesting. I guess I am looking for the tonic equivalent in montreal [or burlington but I dont think that is going to happen] thanks! J __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:44:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Mail Order (no Zcon) Thomas: Verge www.vergemusic.com info@vergemusic.com prices are in canadian dollars so may or may not be a good deal for you. (no affiliation etc.) Ken Waxman - --- thomas chatterton wrote: > I know this question has gone round the list before, > but I've been growing > frustrated with some of the usual sources for mail > order CDs (especially > Bent Crayon!), and was wondering if anyone had any > suggestions for some > other good online retailers along the lines of > Forced Exposure. Especially > if there is any place that deals specifically in > the music that gets > discussed here... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:28:44 -0400 From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: New Wave >I beg to differ about New Wave being a corporation invention in reaction to >Punk. (Was'nt it Punk in fact which was fabricated by this English publicit= y >guy whose name escapes me?) Malcom Mclaren wasn';t it?. He had a boutique that sold the punkers their torn clothes and safety pins, and put together the sex pistols sorta the way Don Kirchner put together The Monkees > >The source of what became known as New Wave can be traced to Warhol's >Factory and the Velvet Underground in the mid-60's and then David Bowie and >Glam Rock (T-Rex, NY Dolls, Roxy Music, etc.) in the early-mid 70's. > >New Wave had a dead-pan ironic, intentionally caricatural twist on >issues of >sex, gender, identity, culture, violence and earlier musical and visual >clich=E9s of 50's and early-mid 60's Rock. > >New Wave groups were a reaction to what by 1975 had become as institutional >as McDonald's cheeseburgers, the long-haired, lead guitar-driven macho band >(Led Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, etc.). I remember well how refreshing and >subversive the short hair, suits and synth-oriented musical approach was. The hair was especially important. ;-) There was a stylist....Mary Lou Green? in NYC. The first thing an A & R guy or promoter would do with a new band was to get them all haircuts by Mary Lou. It was like an entrance fee to being New Wave. > >I remember hearing really creative bands in clubs which never recorded or >hit the big time but deserved to, such as the Maps (anyone remember them?), >a kind of autistic Jefferson Airplane, or Human Sexual Response, who had a >local hit "I wanna be Jackie Onassis", both from Boston. The Humans!!......A great, great band, They DID record an album, not sure if it ever made it to CD? Some other good "New Wave" bands from boston around that period were, The Young Snakes (Which later spawned Til Tuesday); Red (Sort of a punked out version of King Crimson, whose guitarist, known then only as "O", is now Flamenco Guitarist Ottmar Liebfert.), but my favorites were The Dark. They would rent a flatbed truck and drive around the Boston area giving dozens of impromptu concerts in a single day. Bowie Guitarist Reeves Gabrels started out with them. > >It was a very exciting period of self-rediscovery for Rock music which >lasted from about 1976 to 1981. The same period that I first remember hearing about this weird kinda mad-professor guy who would blow a Clarinet into a bowl of water.....whats his name again? ;-) RW - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 23:22:53 +0100 From: duncan youngerman Subject: re: New Wave + street sax player Another thought about New Wave : it was the Jimmy Carter term, just as the previous great rock wave had been the Lyndon Johnson term. Single term Democrats are great for rock. Republicans (single or double term) suck. The next interesting wave was Clinton/Grundge, markedly less original or interesting however than the Carter or of course the Johnson wave. More seriously, I have a question for any Bostoner in the late 1970's: Does anyone remember a street saxophone player around Boston or Cambridge, a white guy, around 40 then, who played this astounding uninterrupted flow of notes from Heaven (or was it Hell)? It must have been circular breathing, and it sounded like some sorts of arpeggios, and he had a very metallic sound, almost sounded like electric cello harmonics or feedback. I've never before or since heard anything that remotely compares to his improvisations. He seemed possessed. I'd always tell myself I'd come back and record him, and never did. Now I live to regret it. Does anyone know who I'm talking about? Thank you! DY - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:58:05 -0400 From: "josephneff" Subject: Re: New Wave Hello, ....my take on the whole thing is that the father away we get from the mid-70's, the less accurate so many descriptions of punk/new wave/u-ground rock of that era become. A lot of the histories/profiles that I've read overlook the stylistic diversity of the early punk scene by lumping anything that doesn't possess a trad punk sound as "new wave" or "post-punk". I prefer the more inclusionist idea that the early punk scene included a slew of diverse groups and artists that generally enjoyed the wide open nature of the music. Groups like Suicide, Pere Ubu, 1/2 Japanese, Raincoats, Throbbing Gristle and Joy Division all presented iconoclastic sounds that integrated quite nicely w/ the more trad bands like Ramones, Voidoids, Pistols, and early Damned. ....it's always been my understanding that "new wave" was a term used (in the US anyway) by the major record companies to redefine punk after the vast majority of the label's signees took a mersh nosedive. And so many bands saddled with the new wave moniker were more than willing to soften their sound/tool-up their image in hopes of selling more records. Isn't this part of the story behind the uncompromising (and to me very punk) music of the no wave scene? Of course, not all new wave was bad: I have a particular fondness for early Devo and B-52's (the first one's a stone party classic, up there w/ James Brown's "20 Greatest Hits" and Coltrane's "Blue Train") ....plus, so many early punk groups were just as, uh, phony. I've often heard that the Stranglers were a pub band dolled up in punk clothing/attitude, and that Gen X were just posers. And I cringe every time I look at the cover of the Tuff Darts record (never been able to listen to it all the way through, BTW). ....and I always had the impression that the politicization of US punk largely came after Americans (mostly teens) had digested the socially aware nihilism of the Pistols and the lefty-friendly Clash. This embrace of politics by US bands seemed to coincide w/ a shift toward a more generic sound that left the more unique, sometimes radical sounding groups way out on the margins. (the above is by no means a dismissal of political music. Some of my favorite music...Phil Ochs, Archie Shepp, Eugene Chadbourne, Minutemen, Fugazi...is political on some level) .....the reason I bring up this generic shift is to opine that the "80's "indie-rock" scene, to me, is an extension of the original stylistic diversity of punk. My exposure to indie rock was where I learned about John Zorn, free jazz, avant-garde classical, Phil Ochs, the Shaggs, Dada, John Fahey, and Duke Ellington. And the major labels had their marketing term for it as well..."college rock". ...discuss? I remain.... Joseph NP:"Caribbean Voyage: Martinique" The Alan Lomax Collection CD (Rounder) NR: Herman Melville "Pierre, or the Ambiguities" John Barth "The Friday Book" Mike Azerrad "Our Band Could Be Your Life" - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:47:10 +0200 From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Massacre Live? Hello. The jazzmatazz website ( http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/matazz.html in their "upcoming jazz CDs" section) announces the following for Nov. 20: Massacre "Live at the Meltdown Festival in London/June 2001" with Fred Frith, Bill Laswell and Charles Hayward on Tzadik..... along with 6 other Tzadik releases on Nov. 20, including Otomo Yoshihide's "Anode" (a Cathode follow up ?). Pascal. At 21:09 12/10/01 +0000, you wrote: >Hello. > >>Someone posted something about a new Tzadik release of Massacre "Live." >> >>a) when? > >I think it's about one month time from now... > >>b) is there an internet article you can e-mail me? > >No, but you might want to check the Downtown Music Gallery homepage. They >mentioned something about it in their update. > >>c) is the line up the same as the '98 release? > >Yes. > >I'm wondering, did anybody here go to that Massacre concert in London? Was >it good, and should I look forward to this cd? > >Thanks. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 07:10:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gatzen Subject: Tzadik Cds I was just curious, where does everyone purchase their Tzadik CD's? Me...I work in a record store so I just order them when they come out, I have every release out so far. I made a vow back in '95 to own every release on Tzadik. Unfortunately I can't do that with Avant due to the Cd's being more expensive and not as easy to find. Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:12:22 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: A. Leroy Does anyone have info about this composer? I've heard his work performed by Guy Klucevsek (the lovely 'Wild Goose' on '?Who Stole the Polka?', among others) and I have a vague memory of a concert that included some of his pieces performed by Anthony Davis, but a web search turns up virtually nothing. I'm not even positive that it's his real name as "Arthur Leroy" was a pseudonym used by various writers in the past. Or if it is, what the "A" stands for. Thanks. Brian Olewnick NP--Roden/Thaemlitz/LaBelle/Hegenbart/Charles - Sampling Rage (x-tract) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 07:46:06 -0700 (PDT) From: jason tors Subject: Um - Stray Dogs [new record from ropeadope] from http://www.ropeadope.com Wondering if any zlisters have checked this out and could write a brief summary. When something is advertised as freaky downtown music it automatically makes me nervous. Tho the combination of gullotti and medeski does sound interesting. UM - "STRAY DOG" (with HAL CROOK, JOHN MEDESKI, RICK PECKHAM, DAVE ZINNO, and BOB GULLOTTI) (out now!) The debut album on Outrageous Records, Um's Stray Dog is uncompromising, aggressive jazz that accepts no limits and takes no prisoners. This album is must for jazzheads tired of the same old thing, MMW fans who love it when Medeski gets freaky, and downtowners who like their weirdness fortified by serious jazz credentials. Recorded live over two wild evenings in Providence, Rhode Island, UM is a super group of accomplished masters, featuring Hal Crook (trombone), John Medeski (organ), Rick Peckham (guitar), Dave Zinno (bass), and Bob Gullotti (drums). Having performed collectively with Phil Woods, Paul Motion, Trey Anastasio’s Surrender to the Air, The Fringe, Medeski, Martin and Wood, and John Zorn, these players are as wide-ranging in their experience as they are adventurous. Thanks to Crook’s harmonized trombone, Medeski’s searing organ, and Peckham’s postmodern guitar melodicism, this album is a cauldron of burning sounds. Zinno and Gullotti provide driving accompaniment and a lot more. Don’t expect to hear medium swing and ballads—on UM you’re taken on a tour of chill rasta grooves, avant-funk epics, cataclysmic shuffles, and burning jazz blues, all filled with raw live energy from musicians who are not content being anything but outrageous. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #593 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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