From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #652 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, December 19 2001 Volume 03 : Number 652 In this issue: - James Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH RE: James Re: 2001 top 10 (and other stuff) RE: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH What's Good For The Goose........ [none] Tricky Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Re: What's Good For The Goose........ RE: What's Good For The Goose........ Circle Paris Concert Favorites from 2001 Re: top 10 list : 2001 Re: Tricky ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:31:36 EST From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: James - --part1_140.69a11c8.29526138_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, nilugo@usa.net writes: > I didn't buy much CDs released this year but here they are: > > In no particular order: > > JAMES - pleased to meet you > Was it just me, or was this this about the dullest thing you've ever heard? I honestly wasn't expecting a lot out of it though, after how completely wonderful I thought Millionaires was - not that most Americans ever heard it, much less knew it existed. Dale. - --part1_140.69a11c8.29526138_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, nilugo@usa.net writes:


I didn't buy much CDs released this year but here they are:

In no particular order:

JAMES - pleased to meet you

Was it just me, or was this this about the dullest thing you've ever heard? I honestly wasn't expecting a lot out of it though, after how completely wonderful I thought Millionaires was - not that most Americans ever heard it, much less knew it existed.

Dale. - --part1_140.69a11c8.29526138_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:40:55 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:23:13 -0400 "Neil H. Enet" wrote: > > TRICKY - blowback Most people did not like that record and I can't understand why. It is defini- tely more commercial that his previous projects, but most of the songs still have this infectious groove that has become his trademark. Yes, I could live without a couple songs, but the rest is quite amazing. Another Tricky project is the ominous PRODUCT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (I have not listened to anything that impressed me so much in a while). I don't know the details of the story behind it, but (forgive my memory, or better, correct me) it is about gangsters that Tricky would have visited in jail. He recorded their comments on their lives and used that material with music in the background (at least at a level behind usual). Not all songs are successful but when it works (for me: 2nd and 3rd tracks), it is ominous and really powerfull. I have not been able to see the record in the USA. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:57:00 -0400 From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: James - -------------- Was it just me, or was this this about the dullest thing you've ever heard? I honestly wasn't expecting a lot out of it though, after how completely wonderful I thought Millionaires was - not that most Americans ever heard it, much less knew it existed. - ---------------- I actually like it very much, even more than MILLIONAIRES, although they are both great albums. But to me, they both sound very similar, same vibe. Anyway, be sure to check the new B-SIDES album, I understand it's a very good compilation. Neil H. Enet - ------------ NP. FAITH NO MORE - album of the year - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:28:23 -0500 From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: 2001 top 10 (and other stuff) > Best CDRs: > 1. Smell & Quim: Spaceshit (no label, no date... but I think it came out in > 2000, whatever) If you dig the S+Q (who doesn't?) you really ought to check out the Milovan Srdenovic solo lp on Freedom From. It's not noise at all, it's more like demented outsider making-a-ruckus-with-toys and Tom Waits-with-the-shits vocals. "I don't want no zulu-gynecologist" indeed. > 2. Decaer Pinga/Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock: Omitting the troll (2xCDr) > (chocolate monk) I've only heard a comp track by R&G, probably a good 4-5 years ago, but I remember being really thrown off by it. There were these big spaces, interrupted by short outbursts of strangeness. It was on the "Release Your Mind" triple cd comp...is this anything of a good intro to the band? Have they done better work? > Bastard Noise: Throne is Melting (helicopter) Both Helicopter things you mentioned are very nice indeed. The last two tracks on this are just lovely, lots of interesting textures, keeps an undertone of menace without actually fully jumping at yr throat. Did you check out the Sissy Spacek also on Helicopter? Lots of fun, short (5-10 secs long) noise burts, some rockisms, some more digital stuff, great for random playing. My list'll pop it's little head up soon. Anyone else going to see the new Jan Svankmajer film "Little Otik" tonight at Film Forum (all you new yorkers.) Just bought my ticket online! I think it'll probably make it's way onto my list. http://www.filmforum.com/otik.html http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0151/hoberman.php (go about halfway down the page) Cheers! Nirav (for whatever reason, really digging the grotesque as of late) - -- AIM: Icefactory37 "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:00:33 -0400 From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH > TRICKY - blowback Most people did not like that record and I can't understand why. It is defini- tely more commercial that his previous projects, - ---------------------------- That is totally true. After MAXINQUAYE everybody said that he was getting too weird, then he comes up with BLOWBACK which feautures RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS, ALANIS MORRISSETTE, CINDY LAUPER, the singer from LIVE, etc. (but like you said it still sounds TRICKY) and people hate it too because it's TOO commercial. What do people want? TRICKY - a very misunderstood artist Neil H. Enet - ------------ FAITH NO MORE - album of the year - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:21:04 -0800 From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: What's Good For The Goose........ > Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not discriminate > between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor should > we, in my opinion. Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value of opinions about art? - - ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:28:02 -0500 From: "Andrew" Subject: Tricky > That is totally true. After MAXINQUAYE everybody said that he was getting > too weird, then he comes up with BLOWBACK which feautures RED HOT CHILI > PEPPERS, ALANIS MORRISSETTE, CINDY LAUPER, the singer from LIVE, etc. (but > like you said it still sounds TRICKY) and people hate it too because it's > TOO commercial. What do people want? Howabout a solid, quality album like "maxinquaye' or "pre-millenial tension"? "Juxtapose" and "Blowback" have been Tricky's attempts to "break into the american MTV/mainstream market" and to "be more accessible to a radio audience", by "getting rid of factors that people aren't comfortable listening to." Where do I get these quotes? I interviewed Tricky this summer, and could hardly believe what I was hearing! The two aforementioned albums are horrible; they're just bad. "Juxtapose" is suppsed to be his "accessible mainstream hip hop album" (of course, even as such it falls flat) and "Blowback" was his attempt to appeal to the "adult contemporary" market. Fuck that. Tricky sold out- and I hate saying "sellout." andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:29:44 -0500 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH > Another Tricky project is the ominous PRODUCT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (I have not > listened to anything that impressed me so much in a while). I don't know the > details of the story behind it, but (forgive my memory, or better, correct > me) it is about gangsters that Tricky would have visited in jail. He recorded > their comments on their lives and used that material with music in the > background (at least at a level behind usual). Not all songs are successful > but when it works (for me: 2nd and 3rd tracks), it is ominous and really > powerfull. I have not been able to see the record in the USA. I asked Tricky about "product of the environment" this summer, when I interviewed him. He said that there was a big public outrage about it, and it will not be released in the USA- something about "not being able to profit from others' criminal actions." andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:25:33 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ - --part1_8a.1135c36d.29526ddd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:34 PM Central Standard Time, keithmar@msn.com writes: > Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't > discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms > of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not > discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value > of opinions about art? wow, what an intensely postmodern attitude. it's good to not have opinions about anything. kate. - --part1_8a.1135c36d.29526ddd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:34 PM Central Standard Time, keithmar@msn.com writes:


Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't
discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms
of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not
discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value
of opinions about art?



wow, what an intensely postmodern attitude.  it's good to not have opinions about anything.

kate.



 - --part1_8a.1135c36d.29526ddd_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:00:05 -0500 From: Jonas Leddington Subject: RE: What's Good For The Goose........ > Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not discriminate > between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor should > we, in my opinion. > Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't > discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms > of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not > discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value > of opinions about art? I think specificity or perspicuity is very important here. One might say that some art is better than other art in certain ways. Talking in absolutes damns us from the get-go (of course, I contradict myself). - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:03:22 -0800 From: "D Dvb" Subject: Circle Paris Concert I ordered it direct from the ECM website....the price was actually quite reasonable considering that it's a double CD set and that it was sent from Germany. Whether or not it's worth it, it doesn't grab my attention when it's on so I can't really say. -- davy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:14:46 -0500 From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: Favorites from 2001 Enormous amount of wonderful and amazing discs this year. I've bought more than ever before, I'm pretty sure, and have still missed a bunch, some of which probably appeared on Caleb's list, for example the Bernard Gunter. But, my faves were: Rowe/Nakamura Weather Sky (easily my favorite of the year and, I imagine, one that'll stand a good chance of making some ultimate desert island list. Great, great record.) Anthony Braxton Composition 247 AMM Fine (this is provisional as I've only been able to listen a few times, but I'm pretty sure it ranks high) Perlonex Peripherique Rowe/Beins Grain Barry Guy Inscape/Tableaux Durrant/Lehn/Malfatti dach Chevalier/Havard/Ottavi/Rowe [N:Q] Nakamura/Sachiko M do MIMEO Electric Chair & Table Very honorable mentions, all of them excellent recordings, imho: Filament 29092000 Neumann/Nakamura Aton Charles/Doneda/Muller Direct Chamber Fuhler/Prins The Flirts Kelley/Lescalleet Forlorn Green Sugimoto/Drumm Den Olivia Block Mobius Fuse Mats Gustafsson Hidros One Otomo Yoshihide Anode Tetreault/Charles MXCT John Wall Constructions V-VII Ielasi/Sciajno Right After Barry Guy Odyssey Efzeg Grain Rolf Julius (halb) schwarz Axel Dorner Trumpet Dafeldecker/Hegenbart Eis 9 Neumann/Krebs Rotophormen Dorner/Drumm Dorner/Drumm Fred Frith Clearing Schick/Neumann Petit Pale Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow We Are Everyone in the Room Marchetti/Voice Crack Double Wash John Butcher Fixations (14) Johansson/Dorner/Neumann Barcelona Series Poire_z Presque Chic Some great issues of older, largely unreleased music: Iskra 1903 Chapter One Braxton Quintet (Basel) 1977 Coltrane The Olatunji Concert Miles Live at the Fillmore East Terry Riley You're No Good Eddie Prevost Silver Pyramid Cornelius Cardew The Great Learning Globe Unity Orchestra 67-70 And easily garnering Label of the Year honors for the second year running, our own Jon Abbey's Erstwhile. Eight releases, all of them at least excellent, several great and next year's schedule looks just as strong. Congrats, Jon. Brian Olewnick NP: AMM - Fine - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:15:19 -0800 From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: top 10 list : 2001 Ten New Songs - Leonard Cohen - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:37:14 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Tricky On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:28:02 -0500 "Andrew" wrote: > > > That is totally true. After MAXINQUAYE everybody said that he was getting > > too weird, then he comes up with BLOWBACK which feautures RED HOT CHILI > > PEPPERS, ALANIS MORRISSETTE, CINDY LAUPER, the singer from LIVE, etc. (but > > like you said it still sounds TRICKY) and people hate it too because it's > > TOO commercial. What do people want? > > Howabout a solid, quality album like "maxinquaye' or "pre-millenial > tension"? > > "Juxtapose" and "Blowback" have been Tricky's attempts to "break into the > american MTV/mainstream market" and to "be more accessible to a radio > audience", by "getting rid of factors that people aren't comfortable > listening to." Where do I get these quotes? I interviewed Tricky this > summer, and could hardly believe what I was hearing! The possibility that the artist practice provocation by giving you what you are starving for (you don't like what he is doing now and he is giving you the weapon to beat him with) does not cross your mind? I am saying that because Tricky does not appear like a model of understatement in his interviews. I would take what he says with a big grain of salt. BTW, for what magazine did you interview him? I guess if Boulez had told you that opera houses should be blown away you would have stayed away from them :-). Anyway, since Tricky is not John Cage or Derek Bailey (to mention two artists that do not play the audience) and his music has always been quite catchy, I am not sure that I detect the significant gap that you see between MAXINQUAYE and BLOW BACK. BLOW BACK is more commercial than MAXINQUAYE? I guess, and so what? Commercial does not mean always bad, and obscure is often obscure for the obvious reason (bad). But you will have a hard time to convince anybody on the list that MAXINQUAYE is an obscure record that requires multiple listening to get it. Maybe it is simply that you are more familiar with his music now and that his style has not really changed. What used to be new for you is not anymore. > The two aforementioned albums are horrible; they're just bad. "Juxtapose" is > suppsed to be his "accessible mainstream hip hop album" (of course, even as > such it falls flat) and "Blowback" was his attempt to appeal to the "adult > contemporary" market. > > Fuck that. Tricky sold out- and I hate saying "sellout." Sold out? Was he ever really obscure? Patrice. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #652 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com