From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #660 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, December 21 2001 Volume 03 : Number 660 In this issue: - Drimala.com (or, let me help you spend money) Re: my favorites of this year Best of 2001 Re: AFX Re: Drimala.com (or, let me help you spend money) Re: cragale French Bands(No Zorn) Re: cragale blood Odp: best of (long) Re: blood Re: top 10 Re: top 10 Re: top 10 Re: top 10 Re: top 10 Re: top 10 RE: top 10 Help from Japanese speaking members (Extremely Non_ZC) Sharrock/Zorn/Race ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 03:08:55 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Drimala.com (or, let me help you spend money) Anyone with extra money from now until the end of the year may want to check this place out. Some of the labels in their listings: AUM Fidelity, Altavistic, Cryptogramophone, Eremite, Erstwhile, bunches more. 30% discount until December 31, free shipping within the U.S., plus a free CD from the Accretions label with each order. Wow. << http://www.drimala.com >> I have *no* affiliation with this outfit whatsoever...just helping your music collection and the U.S. economy...;-) - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:09:58 +0100 (MET) From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: my favorites of this year >Low - Things we lost in the fire Speaking of which: Highly recommended is their collaboration CD with The Dirty Three, _In the Aquarium_ (Konkurrent). Includes a mesmerizing version of Neil Young=B4s _Down By the River_. Regards, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:24:57 +0100 From: "viguier" Subject: Best of 2001 Evan Lurie - Chochin Ribot - The saints White Stripes - White blood cells Mary Gauthier - Drag queens in limousines Zorn - Tous ses disques The Strokes - Is this it ? (a real pleasure and a real energy, why do you want alwys find something new and different ??) James Carter - layin' in the cut - -----Message d'origine----- De : nors5379 À : zorn-list@lists.xmission.com ; zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Date : jeudi 20 décembre 2001 22:43 Objet : best of 2001 >hi - > >i've been a lurker since august but lists like these tempt >me to voice my opinion and working at a cd store doesnt help >either (does anybody else have this problem? my whole >paycheck goes toward recommendations and orders grrr haha) >i was introduced to zorn around june and became immediately >obsessed with his work. and with that introduction came many >other artists that i have grown to love in the last 6 >months. so much of my list is comprised of those discs and >me going back and picking up discs that i heard in my teen >years and didnt appreciate at the time. so here it goes... >its not 10 and its long! >-darryl. > >trevor dunn's trio convulsant - debutantes & centipedes >john zorn - the gift, masada - gimel, naked city (elektra) >marc ribot - cubanos postivos (both) & saints >lounge lizards - live in berlin vol. 1 & 2, queen of all >ears >charlie hunter - songs from the analog playground >tj kirk - both discs >james carter - layin' in the cut >leon parker - awakening >matt darraiu's paradox trio - flying at a slant >jacob fred jazz odyssey - self is gone >olu dara - neighborhoods >david byrne - look into the eyeball >radiohead - amenesiac >disco biscuits - they missed the perfume >morphine - the night & bootleg detroit >chocolate genius - both discs >either/orchestra - across the omniverse >tom waits - all that i acquired! >mr. bungle - all. > >best shows... >9/19/01 - david byrne >6/22-23/01, 10/24 & 26/01 - medeski, martin and wood >8/4/01 - the word >8/11/01 & 11/17/01 - jacob fred jazz odyssey >5/1?/01 - black eyed peas & de la soul (hip hop shows can be >fun!) >8/10/01 - galactic >8/12/01 - spontaneous improvisation w/ medeski, reid, >singleton & moses >4/6/01 - miracle orchestra >..so many countless others. > >Darryl Norsen >db.etree.org/shortround >nors5379@fredonia.edu >volerniemickey@hotmail.com > >"JAZZ is my religion and it alone do I dig. The jazz clubs >are my houses of worship and sometimes the concert halls, >but some holy places are too commercial (like churches) so I >dont dig the sermons there. I buy jazz sides to dig in >solitude." - Feinstein > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 04:30:47 -0600 From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: AFX Actually I quite prefer everything else BUT the prepared piano pieces. On Thu, Dec 20, 2001 at 04:41:39PM -0500, UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > i would also postulise that the majority of the new album is old material, with the plausible exception of the prepared piano pieces... which i think make the album listenable. :) > > kp > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:13:54 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Drimala.com (or, let me help you spend money) another reason to recommend Drimala, from a different perspective, is that they're great about paying the labels they work with (as are North Country, Anomalous and Forced Exposure in the US). their web site is very nicely set up also. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:20:04 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: cragale In a message dated 12/21/01 2:48:33 AM, pequet@altern.org writes: << Shiraishi Tamio is said to be living in NY now >> yeah, he occasionally plays shows here. the last ones I heard of were a weekend series about six months ago with percussionist Sean Meehan, three nights at different outdoor locales, all around the West Side Highway. he also used to sit in occasionally with the No Neck Blues Band, and is on one of their CDs, I believe, don't remember which one. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:42:56 EST From: Poisonhead@aol.com Subject: French Bands(No Zorn) A quick question to the list... I am trying to find a mailorder service here in states that carries the odd child-like (mostly french) bands. I own most of Klimperei's discs, Pascal Camelade, & Pierre Bastien. But really looking for dragibus. Wayside carries the "In Poly Sons" label. Any other suggestions. Thanks in advance! Andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:56:02 -0800 From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: cragale >But, simple >curiosity, are the 101 titles available separately? yes, they are. >- and, I might add, if >so, how do you know what is what? i don't exactly follow you here . . . if you're wondering what groups are worth searching out i've already provided my opinion. if you feel you need more information beyond what is provided at the cragale sites try looking at some sources beyond the sincerely well intentioned but rather haphazard tome that stoefer 'coordinated'. better yet, drop cragale an email with your questions and concerns. i found it was well worth my time, but i'm a 'maniac' (as the japanese say) for this kind of stuff. - - rdf. >Thank you! > >Benjamin > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:59:34 +0000 From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: blood hi -- i've been reading through the ulmer posts and surprised that the comments keep hovering around my big question without answering it. i'm quite a blood fan, love to see him live, love odyssey (the first one moreso), aren't you glad to be in america, tales of capt. black, and the veryfine harmolodic guitar with strings and music speaks louder than words. in other words, not the blues stuff. i think his blues records, the ones i've heard, rot. i gave him another shot, tho, with 'forbidden blues', which was only somewhat better, i thought. haven't heard 'blue blood' or 'sun sessions.' is he actually doing interesting blues now, rather than 'blues all night' crap? i've got a pretty good blues collection, but have little interest in big boom blues, with a bunch of people playing the same damn riff over and over loud as they can. john lee, lightnin hopkins, those guys are the real shit. so is sun sessions worth my while? skip h esp, pls answr. - -kg _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:10:33 +0100 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: best of (long) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Axelrad > Lars Gustaffson - Tale of a Dog (New Directions) Hi, What's that one like? I'm an old fan of his writing - i even recommended his works to some people on this list list and they seemed to like them - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:47:45 -0800 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: blood > > so is sun sessions worth my while? skip h esp, pls answr. > > -kg > It's got lotsa mean nasty guitar tone, attitude vocals all the way home, and does not suffer fr the same syndrome the turns the average contemp blues record into sometihng that sounds like beer commercial music. College frat boys will likely hate it. Plus I love the way it's recorded. I think it's a fantastic-sounding record. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:51:05 -0800 From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: top 10 > >Joe Meek was an English record producer equal parts Phil Spector and (I mean >this in the best way) Edward D. Wood Jr. He was a brilliant guy and >developed some of the best early outboard gear, produced some fantastic >records, and was completely out of his mind. Getting started on Meek would >probably throw the list into a frenzy, or at least it should. Of what's currently available, where do you recommend getting started w/Meek? - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:51:06 -0800 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: top 10 >> >> Joe Meek was an English record producer equal parts Phil Spector and (I mean >> this in the best way) Edward D. Wood Jr. He was a brilliant guy and >> developed some of the best early outboard gear, produced some fantastic >> records, and was completely out of his mind. Getting started on Meek would >> probably throw the list into a frenzy, or at least it should. > > Of what's currently available, where do you recommend getting started w/Meek? IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IT on Razor & Tie, which is a greatest hits overview, or I HEAR A NEW WORLD (don't know which label, but it's out), which was his magnum opus. Anybody wanna jump in here? There are a bunch of collections, and the two I've named are the most bedrock-basic. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:10:20 -0500 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: top 10 > Of what's currently available, where do you recommend getting started w/Meek? Two discs- the razor and tie compilation (i can't remember the name right now) and then the reissue of "I hear a new world." That's actually pretty much all that's available from Meek out there...but he knocked out some amazing stuff in his time ("telstar" and "night of the vampire" are my two favorites). I believe someone recently published a biography of him; he was an interesting, fucked-up guy. He was into drugs, was a promiscuous homosexual with a taste for younger men, and finally flipped out and blasted his landlady with a shotgun when she came to evict him (before blowing his own brains out). It should be a good read, next to that recent Serge Gainsbourg bio. :) andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:20:49 -0800 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: top 10 >> Of what's currently available, where do you recommend getting started > w/Meek? > > Two discs- the razor and tie compilation (i can't remember the name right > now) and then the reissue of "I hear a new world." That's actually pretty > much all that's available from Meek out there...but he knocked out some > amazing stuff in his time ("telstar" and "night of the vampire" are my two > favorites). > > I believe someone recently published a biography of him; he was an > interesting, fucked-up guy. He was into drugs, was a promiscuous homosexual > with a taste for younger men, and finally flipped out and blasted his > landlady with a shotgun when she came to evict him (before blowing his own > brains out). > > It should be a good read, next to that recent Serge Gainsbourg bio. :) > > andrew > > Andrew's on the money here, except that there about about eight compilation discs covering every nook & cranny of his output, on some British label whose name I can't remember. sh - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:20:46 -0500 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: top 10 > Andrew's on the money here, except that there about about eight compilation > discs covering every nook & cranny of his output, on some British label > whose name I can't remember. Wow- that's interesting. I'm surprised that someone hasn't issued a Meek boxed set yet. I didn't realize that there was that much other stuff floating around. Then again, I just remembered that he did a lot of "normal" prodcution work before getting all experimental and whacked out. :) andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:28:50 -0800 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: top 10 >> Andrew's on the money here, except that there about about eight > compilation >> discs covering every nook & cranny of his output, on some British label >> whose name I can't remember. > > Wow- that's interesting. I'm surprised that someone hasn't issued a Meek > boxed set yet. I didn't realize that there was that much other stuff > floating around. Then again, I just remembered that he did a lot of "normal" > prodcution work before getting all experimental and whacked out. :) > > andrew > Even his relatively normal stuff has dark edges about it, not to mention some sort of sonic interest about it. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:47:54 -0500 From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: top 10 >compilation discs covering every nook & cranny of his output, on some British label >whose name I can't remember. they're on Sequel/Castle - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:15:53 -0400 From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Help from Japanese speaking members (Extremely Non_ZC) Hello list, I'm sorry to use this list for this reason but I have a japanese exam soon and I have this little problem. How do you say "I went to your house to study" in japanese. Thanks in advance and again, I'm sorry to use the list like this. Obviously, please reply off list. Neil H. Enet - ------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 03:41:34 -0500 From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: Sharrock/Zorn/Race [here's a post from last week that bounced because it was too large. - mike] Hi All, I agree with Steve on all points except Iron Path's worthiness. It may be because Iron Path was the 1st album of theirs I heard (next was the 1st) and that I'd read about it in Tower Record's "Pulse" and in it's liner notes as being entirely concieved as a studio album in the 'rock band' sense: Bill and Shannon would workout rhythmic ideas together, Sonny would solo over those and Peter would solo over the 3 of them and then Bill did post-production. I think some of the stuff sounds fill-ery ("Black Bat..." anyone?) but a few, like "Prayer", "Iron Path" and "The Fire Drum" are beautiful trax, and Brotzmann (and any musician) can be pointlessly cranky about his output anyway. FYI: the last coupla minutes on "Red Light" from the s/t release is as fine a grand-power finale as anything ever done by anyone, anywhere, ever. Also, I still get a titanic kick from Sonny's lunatic guitar work on "Koln", which actually chronicles Last Exit's first meeting (by Bailey's rule, always the best). Take some acid (or perhaps speed) and listen to "Brain Damage", but u cannot steal laswell's demon bassline at the end of Sonny's solo and sample it to a rap trak, cuz i did! On the 'period' tip, I think that February 1994, when Sonny played every monday night at the old knit, was one of the most important months in the history of the guitar. I saw like 5 of those shows, and am still haunted I didn't catch more, cuz I was close to tears every set. He was finally doing full terror and full awe and full beauty IN EVERY LINE. "Dick Dogs" was wayy uptempo, and more distorted and sexual. "14" came out in several bizarre, trans-astral forms, and he played with a lean trio, instead of the larger band which I felt fleshed out some of his ideas at the cost of his guitar. His sound by then was a lot thicker than on Last Exit releases, very warm, yet just as or even more distorted. I remember being satisfied that he finally found a way to make all that (what I at the time felt was) sugary crap gel with his uttermost ferocity. I'd never doubted my memories of those shows, but thankfully someone (guess who)gave me a bunch of sonny tapes, including Marzette, Monkey, Blak woman n byard lancaster, and also some tapes from those 2/94 shows. Just as I recalled...I think somewhere around spring '93 Sonny must have had some kinda epiphany or something, because starting with this Sonny/Pharoah duet in DC, he seems to play at this whole new level where he's shamelessly Rawk! and avant and jazz with great joy, great agression, great serenity...wahhh wahhhh wahhh. Now, after years of literal hunting, I just got Pharoah Sanders "Izipho Zam" on vinyl, DMG Bruce sez it's out beyond "Monkey pockey boo" and I have no turntable!!!! arrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone see the Bailey/Zorn/Baron/Workman sets at Tonic tonite? I thought they were glorious, with some drama, musical and otherwise. Full Disclosure: while I was enjoying doobage toward the back fukn Zorn threw my coat off my seat (which I'd waited since 5:45pm for!) and took the seat on stage! When I got back I noticed, and replaced the chair with a folding one I nabbed. Then I sat down and had Zorn wink at me, and I remember y I hate all those "Mentos" commercials. So, 1st piece 1st set, Reggie's getting drowned out in the (quite nice) din, after I yell "yer low in the mix" to him and he cranks up. I think it saved him, cuz even with the newfound power-in-reserve his hands were in very obvious pain, as Steve Dalachinsky reminded me when he berated me for kicking the stage yelling "Encorrrre!!!". Set2: After Reggie put out this really majestic sounding deep bassline, Zorn initiated what I felt was the highlight of the evening, when his mouthpiece playing transformed from the post-raspberries he was sometimes blowing at Reggie into this wild, insectoid oscillation with this folded-hands/butterfly-wings approach. It drew this soaring, high shimmer from derek and joey, with reggie bowing these lovely filligrees. FYI, Zorn's raspberries mostly focused on what he apparently considered to be corny aspects of Workman's playing, particularly Reggie's spinning one of those twirlers and using another like a tom abbs-eridoo. Frankly, I liked it. I thought Reggie gave beauty and a different kind of power to their set. I'm not sure I've heard Derek sound that lyrical before... at times it was a sort of Cosmic Disco travelling at Warp-Factor Joey. I was so down for that show when it was the 3, but when Reg joined I literally got goosebumps. I was soooo glad to be there. I wonder how much Zorn was affected by the pre-show, when not 3 minutes after he said "no comps for me! and Phil freeman and so- and so- pay double!" but Freeman himself comes walking up to him, saying he got in on the guestlist! Of course Zorn confronted him about "aren't I the devil or something" and then dismissed him. (Freeman gave it a try :"no, i don't hate u, I'm a writer...") Steve (Smith), awhile back I remember you asked if anyone still thought Zorn rips off Jazz. Well, I assure you there are a number of major musicians who feel that way. It may be due to misiformation or misunderstanding, but I've spoken to artists who have quoted Zorn as saying that he founded Masada so he wouldn't owe anything to Black Music, or that he doesn't partake of it, or somesuch (it varies slightly). Now on the other hand, I got told tonite by another friend that the quote they heard was Zorn claimed he founded Masada cuz he was AFRAID of being ACCUSED of stealing, and so wanted to draw from a 'native' tradition (klezmer(?)). Personally, I think it's 6 of one, half-doz of the other. 1st off, I refuse to accept the proposition that a 20th-21st Century Western man (who's not severely autistic or otherwise impaired, or raised in a hole) can even PICK UP a saxophone without being influenced by the pool of largely black musicians that has imprinted the entire morphogenetic field with their creativity on that instrument. But so fukn what? This is another case of the relatively very recent phenomena of artistic imperialism based on the technological commodification of performance. In past centuries, that one's music was influenced by others was obvious. The recognition that one is always borrowing and stealing balanced with the fears of being called a plagiarist or talentless. There might also be religious or quasi-religious issues involved ("you're stealing our sacred beat/chord/melody/sound/way...") With recording tech, now there is the added weight of "Hey! Besides my ideas, you're also stealing my and my whole community's cultural economy of scale!" I find that logic to be pristine aside from it's fatal flaw: that economy of scale lacks stability anyway, and is inherently exploitable. The same grand evolutionary process that created a world where Zorn can hear Xenakis, Coltrane, Zappa, Slayer n Snoop Dogg and be inspired by them is the same world in which we will soon, all of us, be able to walk into any space and record an audio-visual facsimile of it in very high res without being detected, even by Zorn. Then we'll naturally be able to fax our hi-res memories to anyone and everyone on earth. This is utterly inevitable, only Apocalypse can stop it (oops, oh me oh my!) ...What will happen to the vocational/economic models of artists (including Zorn and those who fear he's ripping them off) at THAT point? As for whatever it is Zorn REALLY said and REALLY feels on the issue of 'black music', I don't actually know. Fate has oddly brought me to play ombudsman in many situations, including a long-term antipathy between Joe Morris and Zorn that turned out to be over nothing. In this case I'd ask Zorn, but the (musically inspiring) asshole threw my coat on the floor. Peace all! (PS to Rob Pleshar n Bill Ashline, I owe u2 rebuttal over on Avantlist, soon, soon...I actually heard another Cecil story tonite that made me laugh at Bill's comment about "I've heard alot of bullshit about Cecil, but none of it is relevant or credible" or somesuch. Information is always relevant to understanding, but what kind of understanding do we want versus what do we need/should have/deserve) PPS to the list: I also recall the whole 'radical islamic culture' thread, and as a gay white muslim with a slightly wild background, a budding artistic career and soupcon of exhibitionistic chutzpah, what threshold of credibility should I cross before adopting this particularly marketable but possibly suicidal label? Should I take an avowed religious position/posture? Should I just study Zorn and fax his approach? Have I permanently barred myself from the label with this musing? Should I be so sincere that the term Shazams! into my typing fingers prior to any conscious thought, lest i be merely exploitative? ;) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 02:02:50 From: "William York" Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock >Moving backward, pick up a disc by Last Exit, the punk-free jazz > >supergroup that also included Peter Brotzmann, Laswell and Ronald > >Shannon Jackson. The studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all >but >the utmost Laswell fan (and those who own all the other discs), >but aside >from that, it's hard to go wrong. My favorite is 'Cassette >Recordings '87' >on Celluloid, also available under as 'From the >Boards' on Enemy and under >one of those titles on Charly, too, I >think. Just to chime in -- as if I could do anything but after such a thorough (as usual!) response by Mr. Steve Smith -- but my favorite Last Exit Cd is the first, self-titled one. I've probably mentioned that on the list three or four times on the list since I've been on it. I also remember someone else here saying one time that he hated it so much that he placed it in a dish of water and microwaved it (don't ask me why I remember that), so it obviously doesn't do it for everyone. But for me it is a pinnacle of what free jazz-meets-noise rock (or 'punk') could ever possibly be. Completely assaultive, intense stuff from a supergroup that actually lives up to its potential ... You can find these things used or fairly cheap pretty easily if you try. For what it is worth I also did not enjoy the Iron Path studio LP, because that type of slick production is totally at odds with this type of music, to my ears. Also, as Steve sort of mentioned, if you can find Herbie Mann's 'Memphis Underground' (I think that's it -- whichever one has that version of "Hold On, I'm Comin') for cheap, it's worth it because his freak-out guitar solos on there are so totally incongruous and out of place. It's really bizarre ... definitely worth hearing, but I couldn't go so far as to say it's "classic" like Ask the Ages or Last Exit. I also read in a great, very in-depth interview with Sharrock in Guitar Player magazine (!) from like 1990 that he is on Miles Davis' 'Tribute to Jack Johnson' towards the end of the second track, and listening to it that makes sense. Apolgies if this is common knowledge, but he is uncredited on that album ... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #660 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? 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