From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #686 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Saturday, January 19 2002 Volume 03 : Number 686 In this issue: - threadgill RE: threadgill Re: threadgill Re: threadgill Re: threadgill Re: threadgill crispell, threadgill at victoriaville Re: at victoriaville Re: threadgill re: Threadgill ibarra quartet personel (maybe) Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Coltrane Live In Seattle Re: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Re: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Re: Jacques Rivett [was:Hal Hartley!] 'spontaneous performance' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:14:30 +0000 From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: threadgill 'spirit of nuff nuff' is probably one of thread's least accessible discs, definitely a strange place to start. some of the, uh, brighter discs, like 'too much sugar for a dime' or 'carry the day' or 'where's your cup' or 'just the facts and pass the bucket' would probably be an easier place to begin. the two new ones are quite nice. there's definite, y'know, threads that run through all of his work, and while there's a few that are nonessential ('live air', 'make a move'), he's really a composer that's more rewarding the more you listen. march rhythms, hidden duets, repeated triplets ... there's a lot of components that he uses in different ways. if i had to pick a first disc, it'd probably be 'song from out of my trees' on black saint. man, i love threadgill.... i kinda don't wanna quit writing about him. but i will. kg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:10:43 -0500 From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: threadgill >he's really a composer that's more rewarding the more you listen. march rhythms, >hidden duets, repeated triplets ... there's a lot of components that he uses >in different ways. great comment Kurt. Too much Sugar really revealed that the first time I listened on headphones. Listening that way made it easier for me to pick out each players' part, rather than hearing the entire mass of music. it also demonstrated that everyone is really playing a composed part, it's not just a blowing session. sean - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:27:50 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: threadgill my favorite Threadgill disc, although it's long out of print, is Air Lore on Novus. the trio with the great Steve McCall deconstructing New Orleans standards like Buddy Bolden's Blues, very impressive. I have most of his discs as a leader, which I usually find not as exciting as I'd hoped. if anyone's desperately looking for any of the out of print ones, e-mail me privately and we can probably work something out. on a separate note, the new ones may very well be good (I liked the first track on Up Popped...), but damn, is the packaging ugly. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:29:08 -0600 From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: threadgill Wow, Henry Threadgill is one of my favorite composers, I love the way he ties all the elements of his groups together and pairs them up or puts them into other little subgroups playing off of each other. I think it can take several listens to really sort of break through the density of some of the bands. That said "nuff nuff" is sort of an embryonic version of VVC and I think that band really shines on "carry the day" and "too much sugar" in particular. I love his dirges, marches and blues tunes as well. I'd say check out either of the 2 above or some of the sextet LPs on novus or about time before giving up. Rob - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:18:24 EST From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: threadgill I actually really like the quirky cover art for 'Everybodys Mouth's a Book.' It's fun and very different than most else out there. Well, to each his own... jeff JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: > on a separate note, the new ones may very well be good (I liked the first > track on Up Popped...), but damn, is the packaging ugly. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:55:42 -0500 From: James Hale Subject: Re: threadgill After hearing all of Threadgill's post-Air recordings, the most surprising thing about seeing Make A Move the first time was HOW thoroughly composed it is. Even after several years in the band, Brandon Ross was staring holes in the music. James Hale Sean Westergaard wrote: > great comment Kurt. Too much Sugar really revealed that the first time I > listened on headphones. Listening that way made it easier for me to pick > out each players' part, rather than hearing the entire mass of music. it > also demonstrated that everyone is really playing a composed part, it's not > just a blowing session. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:59:25 -0800 From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: crispell, threadgill I recommend Crispell's "nothing ever was, anyway ... the music of annette peacock" (ECM) for starters, with motion and peacock. absolutely gorgeous, fully formed music that reveals nuances of both peacock's and crispell's personalities. a little gentler than crispell's more CTish work, but very potent.... for a more fully improvised, spontaneous beauty, more intense, try the "GAIA".... as for very very circus, i found the sound of "spirit" difficult for my ears to swallow, but i was lured in more by the subsequent discs. and then live, even more seductive. ... the sound of tubas and electric guitars together is challenging, i think both to capture, and to hear, but HT created a rich, dramatic soundscape unlike anybody. haunting and perky at the same time, playful and dangerous. if you find nothing there for you to gnaw on, you're certainly not alone, judging from how short-lived his stint was with columbia.... for me, his sextett albums -- especially the ones on about time -- remain my favorite, although the new "up jumped the two lips" has been getting plenty of play around mi casa -- and was on my top 10 2002.... - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:03:11 -0400 From: mwoodwor Subject: at victoriaville In addition to the other artists that have already been mentioned, I'm fairly certain that Merzbow will be coming again this year to Victoriaville. So that's 1.Merzbow 2.Satoki Fuji Duo 3.Rene Lussier/Eugene Chadborne Duo DId I forget anything that's already been mentioned and does anyone know of anyone else that's coming? wudz. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:15:40 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: at victoriaville In a message dated 1/18/02 2:04:41 PM, mwoodwor@is2.dal.ca writes: << DId I forget anything that's already been mentioned and does anyone know of anyone else that's coming? >> Polwechsel will be there also, as will a large-band Keith Tippett project. there are attempts being made to bring the Tippett project to NYC also, and Polwechsel will not be playing NYC around that time, as I had been trying to arrange. I never understand why Michel Levasseur likes to keep the lineup secret as long as possible, but I guess he has his reasons. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:51:40 +0000 From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: Re: threadgill a few years ago, i asked brandon (who was also in vvcircus, so he's been playing with the man for over a decade) how much of the music was composed and how much was improvised. he furrowed his brow, looked down for a moment, looked back at me and smiled and said "it's not really like that." kg >After hearing all of Threadgill's post-Air recordings, the most surprising >thing about seeing Make A Move the first time was HOW thoroughly composed >it >is. Even after several years in the band, Brandon Ross was staring holes in >the music. > >James Hale _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:59:13 -0500 From: "Dave Smey" Subject: re: Threadgill I'll just continue to "vote" for the most accessible Threadgill's -- Too Much Sugar and Carry the Day, IMO. Like some on the list I bought Too Much Sugar based on his HT's reputation and was at first mystified and annoyed, but man did it grow on me eventually. After those 2, move on to Makin' a Move or Song Out of My Trees for a few very interesting chamber pieces. I must say I miss the Very Very Circus. The new, smaller groups just aren't as fun. - -D np: Magnetic Fields, 69 Love Songs - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:15:15 -0600 (CST) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: ibarra quartet personel (maybe) to whomever it was that has a gift of seeing crispell and ibarra double bill, when I saw ibarra last april in minneapolis (aside: still looking for a recording of that show), it was a trio w/ jennifer choi on violin and the ubiquitous (and native minneapolean) craig taborn on keys. great music - i think i posted a mini-review on the list at the time. cheers, whit np - the beach boys, today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:55:10 -0800 (PST) From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) I've been asked by the kind folks at xmission.com (hosts of the zorn-list for the last few years) if we would like to use the new mailing list software (Mailman) that they have installed. It appears that this new list software will make it much easier for y'all to subscribe, unsubscribe, go on vacation and browse the archives. Additionally, there are a bunch of benefits to ease list administration and bounce management (making my life much easier...theoretically). However, I'd like to solicit opinions on the change before making the move. The potential issues and areas I'd like comments on are: 1. Subscribers will only be able to sign up for regular OR digest emails, NOT BOTH. This affects 4 out of 700 subscribers, is this a problem for you folks? 2. Subscribing and unsubscribing will be done via a web broswer combined with an emailed confirmation. Is this okay? 3. Your subscription will be protected with a password, eliminating the possibility of malicious unsubscriptions (ohhhh, how mean!). The downside is you have another goddamn password in your life (though you can have Mailman email you the password if you forget it, and this is key, without my intervention!). 4. The new list archives will be available via the web rather than with the current clunky ftp interface. If we make the archives public, then web crawlers like google.com will index the archives making them searchable. If people don't want this, I can configure the list to have private archives which precludes the ability to search them easily. Comments? 5. Mailman MAY have problems if you are using Netscape Navigator 4.71 running on Linux. Is anyone using this email reader/OS combination? 6. Sadly, Mailman doesn't have the ability to strip out HTML from incoming messages (my dream feature!). If you'd like to see the web interface for other xmission mailing lists, go to http://mailman.xmission.com Click on the "Police" to see what their archives look like...they can be sorted by date, subject, thread, and author. Feel free to discuss this on the zorn-list or email me privately, whatever you are most comfortable with. thanks, mike rizzi top-wanker-for-the-zorn-list-wanker-list - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:03:40 -0600 From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Coltrane Live In Seattle

right now i am listening to coltrane live in seattle.  i am not halfway through the first disc, but so far i am enjoying it immensely. 

  in Eric Nisenson's book on Coltrane: "Ascension" he says that in this period Coltrane was undergoing some major Stravinsky influence.  i can actually hear it on certain parts.  very interesting.  Nisenson says that coltrane had found in Stravinsky some quite universal melodies. 

  i must say the free period coltrane sounds nice in it's moments touched with stravinsky. 

  it's the opinion of nisenson and also a friend of mine that this concert is not a particularly strong one.  i was curious about other people's opinions.

   thanks,

      -samuel



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- - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:34:01 -0500 From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) At 15:55 18/01/02 -0800, you wrote: >6. Sadly, Mailman doesn't have the ability > to strip out HTML from incoming messages > (my dream feature!). This SUCKS. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 04:00:18 -0500 From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Sorry my previous wasn't exactly tactful, but it was spontaneous. I was choking on a pretzel while sending the message. I would like to elaborate a little bit, and throw in a couple of random ideas and considerations. First thing, I'm all for any change that makes the life of our moderator easier. Secondly, would the change finally allow to start the messages subject with "[zorn-list]", or something to that effect? - - I do know that it is possible to set up filters in most email clients, to direct the incoming mail in various folders. I am on about 20,000 mailing-lists so I receive a lot of email every day. I don't always check my email from the same computer. Having a list-specific subject would somehow make it easier for me. About your remark that there is no way to strip html code from emails before they are distributed (in this current version of Mailman). There are many inconveniences to html email, as you know, especially as it is now virtually impossible to turn off completely that feature in most current email clients (eudora, etc, and I pity the forced users of microsoft outlook for whom it is even much worse). Anyway, html email means messages two to three times bigger in file size than plain text emails. It means also that images and pieces of code can be embedded in the message. (People will be able to start personalizing their emails with little flowers, hearts, images, ... music files, etc.) I would prefer not... The most obvious and recent example of the harmful effects of code embedded in emails is the infamous, bad, "badtrans" virus. A really quick search on the Mailman mailing-list reveals that this has been discussed before and that "third-party" solutions to remove MIME from the emails do exist. Please see http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-December/016012.html >1. Subscribers will only be able to sign > up for regular OR digest emails, NOT BOTH. > This affects 4 out of 700 subscribers, > is this a problem for you folks? I am afraid of being one of the 4 geeks. It is not a problem not to be subscribed twice at the same email address. In fact I am on both lists for having been unsubbed by majordomo a few times these last months, and probably because some emails sent to me had bounced for some reason. Mailman might do a better job at handling that, I don't know. (Was / is it possible for someone to unsubscribe someone else without confirmation, in this present set up of majordomo?) The other points 2. to 5. are absolutely no problem either. I am assuming that the option for people not subscribed to the list to send emails to the list will be turned off... Last thing: the possibility of browsing the archives is priceless in my opinion, for the amount of added knowledge made available by that simple feature. - - Though there obviously are "mail-to-HTML converters" scripts that work in conjunction with majordomo to do just that (keywords: Wilma, MHonArc, ...) Thank you Mike! Benjamin Np: Merzbow - Amlux (important records) At 15:55 18/01/02 -0800, you wrote: >I've been asked by the kind folks at xmission.com >(hosts of the zorn-list for the last few years) >if we would like to use the new mailing list >software (Mailman) that they have installed. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:57:31 -0500 From: Alan Lankin Subject: Re: Jacques Rivett [was:Hal Hartley!] French director Jacques Rivette was one of the members of the French "New Wave." He's probably best known for the amazing 1974 film "Celine and Julie Go Boating," which is sort of a French new wave self-referential "Alice in Wonderland." More recently he made "La belle noiseuse," a film about creativity in a story about an artist and his model. Alan Lankin - -- Jazzmatazz http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net lankina@att.net thomas chatterton wrote: > > > French director Jacques Rivette had an interesting reaction: > > It's worse than Kubrick with A Clockwork Orange > >> (1971), >> a film that I hate just as much, not for cinematic reasons but for moral >> ones. I remember when it came out, Jacques Demy was so shocked that it >> made >> him cry. Kubrick is a machine, a mutant, a Martian. He has no human >> feeling >> whatsoever. > > > Excuse MY ignorance but who the f**k is Jacques Rivette? Man, he's sure > out of it with that "assessment" of Kubrick. Clockwork Orange is > probably one of the most "moral" films ever made! > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 01:01:12 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: 'spontaneous performance' Hello there, Recently I attended/participated in a 'spontaneous music' festival here in Sydney, and witnessed some interesting stuff to say the least. A question was raised for me by one of the artists - a relatively prominent local sax player, he turned up for a set he was playing armed with a bag of toys, chocolate bars, tape, masks, etc. During the performance, he threw bouncy balls at the other players, tried to tape the other players together, put a mask on one of the other players and himself, ate chocolate, threw chocolate, put it in another player's bell, attempted to do an artwork on another player's back, tried to wrap up the audience with brown paper, the list goes on... Now I know this isn't new, I've heard of players doing similar things, but I've never witnessed it before. So what I'm wondering is, is there a general thought on such practices throughout the improvising world? Are they frowned upon? Applauded? As far as this night went, one of the other players went along with it, the other got angry and walked off stage. The festival organiser was pretty angry too... So what do you people think? Julian. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #686 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com