From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #701 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, January 24 2002 Volume 03 : Number 701 In this issue: - Re: The Ornette Fight Fwd: Re: The Ornette Fight Spy vs. Spy Kraftwerk Re: Kraftwerk =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rowe/M=FCller/Sugimoto=20US=20tour=20dates?= yuka honda? Re: Kraftwerk Sing Me A Song of Songmy Re: Sing Me A Song of Songmy Re: Sing Me A Song of Songmy Re: Kraftwerk tangelos. [none] Re: yuka honda? mailman change RE: Trembling Before G-d in Atlanta Re: Re: The Ornette Fight Re: stand up/musicians Fwd: Re: Sonny Clark Memorial Re: Fwd: Re: Sonny Clark Memorial Odp: Sonny Clark Memorial Re: musicians and non-musicians ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:16:47 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: The Ornette Fight > Raise your hand if this reminds you of your mother. Son, it's not that we don't love you, it's just... heck, we don't love you... Uncanny, isn't it? - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:35:34 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: The Ornette Fight > I'm sure most of us have been on other mailing > lists. In general most of > them aren't quite as intelligent as the Zorn list. > On these other lists it > is quite common to have one person say "just my > opinion" and another to say > "no, well it's wrong" - they just don't know any > better. I thought the Zorn > list was above this, but I guess I was wrong... Well, I thought this list and any others were used, among other things, to express one's opinions, which very often clash with other listers'. The Zorn-list above that?? Perhaps I'm missing something... Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:13:31 +0000 (WET) From: Ricardo Reis Subject: Spy vs. Spy never heard this one but always got the idea it related some how to the Spy vs. Spy comic strip on MAD magazine... hit the nail somewhere? greets, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:49:29 -0400 From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Kraftwerk Hello list, can you tell me which is the ONE Kraftwerk album to get? Is there a nice compilation or should I just go with one of their proper albums? Thanks Neil H. Enet - ------------ NP. MR. BUNGLE - Mr. Bungle - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:51:39 +0000 From: Ian Fenton Subject: Re: Kraftwerk Try Computer World. It's my favourite. on 24/1/02 10:49 am, Neil H. Enet at nilugo@usa.net wrote: > Hello list, > > can you tell me which is the ONE Kraftwerk album to get? Is there a nice > compilation or should I just go with one of their proper albums? > > Thanks > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > > NP. MR. BUNGLE - Mr. Bungle > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:23:53 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rowe/M=FCller/Sugimoto=20US=20tour=20dates?= for those who don't know, Keith Rowe, G=FCnter M=FCller and Taku Sugimoto ar= e=20 about to embark on a handful of US shows each, overlapping on 2/2 at Tonic=20 (their first trio show since late 1999 in Paris, the show which was released= =20 as The World Turned Upside Down), and on 2/3 at MassArt in Boston. I don't=20 have many specifics of the shows, sorry, but here are the cities they'll be=20 in: G=FCnter M=FCller shows: 1/29 w/ Nmperign at Massart, Boston 1/31 w/ Taku Sugimoto in Colorado Springs 2/1 w/ Taku Sugimoto and Kevin Drumm at Lampo, Chicago 2/2 w/ Taku Sugimoto, Keith Rowe at Tonic, New York 2/3 w/ Taku Sugimoto, Keith Rowe at Massart, Boston other Rowe shows: 2/5-Colorado Springs 2/8-Austin 2/9-Houston please forward to anyone you think might be interested. thanks! Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 00:20:46 +0900 From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQFY6LCEhOS1CQBsoSg==?= Subject: yuka honda? hi, i guess john zorn (will?) produce yuka honda(cibo matto) . i'm waiting long time. anyone heard or listen about it? pls give me any information about it. sorry for only question.. kota akane - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:24:53 EST From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Kraftwerk - --part1_192.18bae6a.29816525_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like pretty much all their work, and the re-recorded compilation called The Mix should give you a good indication of thier material. Dale. - --part1_192.18bae6a.29816525_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like pretty much all their work, and the re-recorded compilation called The Mix should give you a good indication of thier material.

Dale. - --part1_192.18bae6a.29816525_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:17:54 EST From: Nastifyer@aol.com Subject: Sing Me A Song of Songmy Hello Zornlisters, somebody asked about this record and, much to my surprise, nobody has answered. Since I've been on the list for years and leeched lots of excellent info from ya'll I am temporarily unlurking to share what I know about Sing Me A Song Of Songmy. I don't own this record but my roommate in collage did. We would get very inebriated and listen to this and that Don Cherry, Jon Appleton record, the name of which escapes me. Anyway, I just had my former roommate burn me a CDR of Sing Me A Song Of Songmy and listening too it brings back fond memories. It's actually an album credited too Ilhan Mimaroglu that features Freddie Hubbard and his quintet. It's billed as "a fantasy for electromagnetic tape" and it's a wild mixture of avant-garde jazz, modern classical, and music concrete, with some poetry thrown in for extra weirdness. The Freddie Hubbard quintet plays wonderfully (but it ain't Red Clay) and the electronics and orchestra stuff are fantastic as well. There is lots of electronics and tape manipulation as well. There are musical quotations from Brahms and others, and poetry and text from Kierkegaard, Che Guevara etc., lots of bleep and bloops and backwards tape, stereo panning, strings and full chorus. Don't know what label this was on (but I can find out if somebody wants), but it came out in 1971. Great stuff, one of my favorites. Gotta go to work now, hope this was helpful to whoever asked. - -Eric - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:49:39 -0500 From: James Hale Subject: Re: Sing Me A Song of Songmy Sing Me A Song Of Songmy was recorded in July 1970 and released on Atlantic. Ilhan Mimaroglu was extremely interested in political approaches to composition, in addition to electronics, and the album features a very moving piece called "Black Soldier" which features Hubbard reciting a poem by Fazil Husnu Daglarca. In liner notes to The Art Of Freddie Hubbard, trumpeter Frederick Jacobs states that Mimaroglu was attracted to Hubbard because of the use of electronics on 1969's Black Angel LP. I hadn't listened to this in years, and I'm struck again by its power. I haven't asked him, but I suspect this must be a recording Dave Douglas checked out in preparing Witness. It's an obvious precursor, and would make sense knowing the kind of research Dave usually does before embarking on a new project. (Steve Smith, maybe you have some insight on Dave's awareness of the Hubbard/Mimaroglu work.) James Hale Nastifyer@aol.com wrote: > Hello Zornlisters, somebody asked about this record and, much to my surprise, > nobody has answered. Since I've been on the list for years and leeched lots > of excellent info from ya'll I am temporarily unlurking to share what I know > about Sing Me A Song Of Songmy. Don't know what label this was on (but > I can find > out if somebody wants), but it came out in 1971. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:51:17 -0500 From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: Sing Me A Song of Songmy Freddie Hubbard - Sing Me a Song of Songmy - Atlantic SD1576 Jon Appleton/Don Cherry - Human Music - Flying Dutchman FDS121 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 1:17 PM Subject: Sing Me A Song of Songmy > Hello Zornlisters, somebody asked about this record and, much to my surprise, > nobody has answered. Since I've been on the list for years and leeched lots > of excellent info from ya'll I am temporarily unlurking to share what I know > about Sing Me A Song Of Songmy. I don't own this record but my roommate in > collage did. We would get very inebriated and listen to this and that Don > Cherry, Jon Appleton record, the name of which escapes me. Anyway, I just had > my former roommate burn me a CDR of Sing Me A Song Of Songmy and listening > too it brings back fond memories. It's actually an album credited too Ilhan > Mimaroglu that features Freddie Hubbard and his quintet. It's billed as "a > fantasy for electromagnetic tape" and it's a wild mixture of avant-garde > jazz, modern classical, and music concrete, with some poetry thrown in for > extra weirdness. The Freddie Hubbard quintet plays wonderfully (but it ain't > Red Clay) and the electronics and orchestra stuff are fantastic as well. > There is lots of electronics and tape manipulation as well. There are musical > quotations from Brahms and others, and poetry and text from Kierkegaard, Che > Guevara etc., lots of bleep and bloops and backwards tape, stereo panning, > strings and full chorus. Don't know what label this was on (but I can find > out if somebody wants), but it came out in 1971. Great stuff, one of my > favorites. Gotta go to work now, hope this was helpful to whoever asked. > -Eric > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:58:08 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: Kraftwerk In a message dated 01.24.02 06:54:40, lumipallopoika@mac.com writes: >Try Computer World. It's my favourite. i concur 100%. computer world is the way to go. k8. - ----- [ .n o t h i n g i s w h a t i s s a i d. ] .k a t e p e t e r s o n. .c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r. http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:08:31 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: tangelos. do any of the rest of you like tangelos? i love their texture and that juicy feeling when i bite into one. not quite orange, not quite tangerine... [a pensive moment passes us all by.] k8 - ----- [ .n o t h i n g i s w h a t i s s a i d. ] .k a t e p e t e r s o n. .c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r. http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable) - - ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:16:08 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: yuka honda? On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 00:20:46 +0900 =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQFY6LCEhOS1CQBsoSg==?= wrote: > > i guess john zorn (will?) produce yuka honda(cibo matto) . > i'm waiting long time. > anyone heard or listen about it? I guess you are talking about: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - MEMORIES ARE MY ONLY WITNESS: Yuka Honda Yuka Honda; Duma Love; Timo Ellis; Bill Ware; Dougie Bowne. 2002 - Tzadik (USA), TZ 77?? (CD) Note: not released yet (planned in February 2002). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ A Yuka Honda record (that one?) was announced on Tzadik as early as 1996... No idea why it took so long to come out. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:15:12 +0000 (WET) From: Ricardo Reis Subject: mailman change [ed. note: the change should be transparent for subscribers....I'll know more in the new few days.] go ahead Mr. Rizzi! how is the change made for the subscribers? is automatic or do we have to subscribe again? i vote for public archives because knowledge should expand and flower up. greets, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:34:38 -0500 From: "Kim, Pei-Yi" Subject: RE: Trembling Before G-d in Atlanta Incidentally Trembling Before G-d is also playing in NYC at Film Forum: http://www.filmforum.com/trembling.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 00:17:35 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Re: The Ornette Fight > Well, I thought this list and any others were used, > among other things, to express one's opinions, which > very often clash with other listers'. The Zorn-list > above that?? Perhaps I'm missing something... All I was trying to say is that someone's personal taste/opinion can't be "wrong", but in this Ornette discussion a few people seem to be saying that it can... - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:16:24 -0500 From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: stand up/musicians Well, maybe I chose a bad example, but I think the point still stands. You said that a plug-in might not redeem what they're doing, but likewise, really fast/technical playing doesn't redeem music with a dearth of ideas (for me). Same with the Autechre example you used. If their crappy equipment is really turning people off, so be it, but I certainly wouldn't pretend that my ability to recognize the software they're using puts me in any privileged position. I think claiming a privileged position vis a vis ability to determine some music's validity or aesthetic worth is pretty obnoxious. I was thinking about this topic before, and I think maybe a good example that concerns music would be my recent taste for a lot of electro-acoustic improv. or computer music, where there exists very little set standard for what properly playing the instrument might mean (how can you tell if voice crack is "good" at playing the re-wired alarm clock?). Let's just get right past that before a note is even played. I also really enjoy stuff that manages to do a lot with very simple elements. For instance, I think the best Ryoji Ikeda stuff (+/-) is so brilliant because he takes deceptively (and audibly) simple elements (minimal modulation of sine waves, really simple rhythms) and manages to ring out an almost paradoxical richness. Likewise a lot of classic minimalism, I guess, from early Reich to Lucier. - -Jesse - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian" To: "Jesse Kudler" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:53 PM Subject: Re: stand up/musicians > Sure, but your point has drifted from musicians to technically-minded > computer people. I don't think the Protools plug-in Blink 182 is using is > going to redeem it too much. But perhaps if one day we heard a new and > exciting chord progression in one of their songs (not too likely) we might > go 'hey, I haven't heard that before' and give it another spin... > > However, your point may ring true for some things, for example electronic > music like Aphex Twin or Autechre. These guys really rely on their amazingly > clarity of sounds, and probably if they were using sub-standard equipment, > it may not sound so good, perhaps even to the point that people don't listen > want to listen to it. > > > I find this most frustrating in a lot of academic music, > > or even non-academic computer music, where genuinely > > boring music is supposed to be redeemed by some tricky > > process, or cool patch, or whatever. Sure, as someone > > who does music and recording, I notice things that no one > > else does. But just because I can hear what protools > > plug-in Blink 182 is using doesn't make them any better. > > Or worse. It just means I'm using a different standard to > > evaluate them. Arguably, the wrong one. > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:39:45 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Sonny Clark Memorial > > Wasn't the Sonny Clark Memorial Album actually Wayne > Horvitz's? Yes. Yesterday I was listening to a BBC Program that was dedicated to Zorn and presented by Steve Beresford (Downtown Avantgarde: the music of JZ). Zorn stated that he had always refused to play jazz until Horvitz came up with this project and convinced him to participate. Best, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:17:41 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Sonny Clark Memorial On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:39:45 +0100 (CET) =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= wrote: > > > > > Wasn't the Sonny Clark Memorial Album actually Wayne > > Horvitz's? > > Yes. Yesterday I was listening to a BBC Program that > was dedicated to Zorn and presented by Steve Beresford > (Downtown Avantgarde: the music of JZ). Zorn stated > that he had always refused to play jazz until Horvitz > came up with this project and convinced him to > participate. There is also the story of VOODOO being played at some European festival (Germany?) and everybody amazed that Zorn could play (more or less straight) jazz. Among the most puzzled was nobody else than... Anthony Braxton :-). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:15:32 +0100 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Sonny Clark Memorial Is it just my opinion, or does the CD version of the album badly needs some serious remastering? sounds awfully flat to me. From: Julian > Wasn't the Sonny Clark Memorial Album actually Wayne Horvitz's? Anyway, I > think one of the most interesting things for me about this album is that - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:55:06 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: musicians and non-musicians > this is interesting. what about the other musicians out there? i'm one > as well and understand all this techical stuff but for the most part can > listen to nearly anything and not analyze it. i never really think about > what the musicians on a recording are doing....the only exception to > that would be if i'm seeing a live performance and somebody's making > some truly bizarre noise...and even then it's usually a matter of trying > to figure out, say, what's the guitar player scraping the strings behind > the bridge with... Well I'm sure we're always going to notice an interesting chord or where the music shifts to an odd time or whatever regardless of whether we're particularly listening for it (well I guess the people without technical knowledge will too, to an extent anyway). I guess where being a musician changes my listening the most is that I find a lot of stuff boring pretty quickly, even if I really want to give it a chance, I can't help but skip because I know what they're doing and where it's going and all that... - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #701 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com