From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #717 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, January 28 2002 Volume 03 : Number 717 In this issue: - Re: godel, escher, bach, xenakis. non-zc. Re: breaking the silence. RE: John Luther Adams query Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #714 Stop...NOW! electroacoustic list Re: David Vorhaus/White Noise Re: breaking the silence. Re: Canavarro + Drumm/Wehowsky (Was: lots of questions.) Maya Deren Re: morenette Re: breaking the silence. damned if i do... Re: John Luther Adams query Re: Maya Deren JLA recording from PGCincinnati Re: damned if i do... Re: damned if i do... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:14:39 -0800 From: crymad Subject: Re: godel, escher, bach, xenakis. non-zc. "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:54:20 EST UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > > > > well, i'm reading godel, escher, bach, the eternal golden braid, for the > > third time, and i'm using godel's incompleteness theorem in a very > > complicated piece involving recursion and reflexion, for solo viola with > > possible accompaniment in supercollider. [...] > This list is really going down... Now I understand why Godel would be sorry. Sadly, I only started reading this list about a week ago. Imagine my disappointment. - --cm - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:17:37 -0500 From: Bob Sweet Subject: Re: breaking the silence. Skip said: > Except that I think "free" is a misnomer. Oliver Lake said: Free jazz means you're not getting paid to play. Bob Sweet read Music Universe, Music Mind http://www.arborville.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:19:15 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: John Luther Adams query John Luther Adams has a well-designed and informative website at www.johnlutheradams.com, which seems to have details about most of his works. Strange and Sacred Noise is scored for a percussion quartet, though the exact disposition of the instruments is not detailed. It is due to be released on Mode in fall, performed by Percussion Group Cincinnati, so perhaps the label itself might be of assistance. The same might hold true for In the White Silence, scored for celesta, harp, string quartet, two vibraphones and string quintet or orchestra. A recording by JoAnn Falletta and the Apollo Chamber Orchestra is due out in early 2003 on New World, so maybe they could provide further information. Both works are referenced on the "News" page of the site; the first work is described under "Percussion" on the "Works" page, the latter on the "Orchestral" page in the same section. Very nicely done. If Adams himself is not responsive at the moment, I think it's likely because he is frantically preparing for the impending board meeting of the American Music Center, of which he serves as president (www.amc.net). That's coming up very, very soon here in NYC. Hope this helps, and lemme know if you need direct contacts for Mode or New World. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Herb Levy I've recently received a couple of CDRs of recent pieces by Adams for use on Mappings and haven't heard back from him in response to some questions I had about ensemble size, personnel etc. Is there anyone out there who knows about his work and/or might have seen performances of either Strange & Sacred Noise and/or In the White Silence, who could provide some details. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:23:47 -0500 From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #714 Efren, I claim no responsibility for either Jon's reactions to K8 or Steve's reaction to me, I expressed regret for both (I laffed at Jon leaving and now I feel bad. I felt bad about Steve's threat to leave and now (yes!) am having a good laff at his expense..). I suggested to you that WE (*mutually*) not tank-out the list with our hostilities, which you refuse to do. Rest assured you can jockey for some sense of 'victory' all you like, but I suggest u create a private listserv where I can come in and excoriate/insult/deconstruct you a googleplex ways to Sunday, because the kid-gloves have been chafing me for awhile now. It would be a shame to troll the list out, I've seen a few torpedoed and have done it once or twice myself, far more severely than anything here, that's why I indulge you. But I can see your set on some pathetic victory, and your own psych profile has remained consistent in your posts, so disliking you, your manifold hypocrisies and your silliness is an easy call. But if you claim to not wanna stress the list then you share responsibility for any further interaction between us, because your fingers are now more deeply in the pie than mine are. Your call, tough guy. Of course, when I commented that it's sad to watch a list slide down a clear existential spectrum, from discussing 'trolling' to manifesting it, other people came in for their pound of flesh. As if I'm not going to rebut *each and every person in detail*, as is my habit. That's particularly why Steve surprised me, his post openly begged for a rebuttal ("...have a good laff at my expense now...") that could only be a furtherance of the process of alienation all around. What's up with that? Fine, let chips fall wherever, but I think some people have not been clear on their own motivations for posting to this thread... Lastly, I find it telling that in all the hubub re: non-avantmusic-content, no one commented about the Zorn/NY Art Quartet rumour. Even if one is mad at me, I would think that's a *highly* intersting tidbit to discuss *amongst yourselves*. Clearly, though, despite (AGAIN!!!) every indulgent hypocritical snobby defensive assertion to the contrary, some posters here display their priorities through their actions..... Giving back what I get, As Always, Jeton Ademaj _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:41:33 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Rizzi Subject: Stop...NOW! Jesus Christ! I go away for a nice skiing holiday in Utah (and get the pleasure of hanging out with Pete, the dude who owns xmission.com) and I get back to some sort of flame war. I haven't had a chance to read the 500 new zorn-list postings, but I will. In the meantime, I want the dueling parties to STOP RIGHT NOW. If y'all wanna fight, then take it outside. Quite bothering the other 690 bar patrons who are here to have a nice stiff drink. In case my weak literary illusions are clear, take this flame war to to private email amongst yourselves. Any comments/replies/flames to me, privately. thanks, mike rizzi - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:36:12 +0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: electroacoustic list There's been a lot of interest in this list proposal so far, so we may start it sooner than I anticipated. I just wanted to let people know that I will have infrequent internet access over the next couple of weeks, so if you write to me about this list, and I don't respond right away, this is the reason. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:37:17 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: David Vorhaus/White Noise >From: "M. Pathos" > >Is anyone here familiar with the work of David Vorhaus, perhaps better >known >as White Noise? What does it sound like? Any >recommendations for an album to start with? Start and end with White Noise - An Electric Storm, the first album released under that moniker in 1970(?), spooky high voltage proto-industrial electronic textures, Dr. Who meets Stockhausen at Lucifer's Black Mass, with some rock'n'roll sensibility stirred in. The second album (White Noise 2) was more melodic ala Clearlight, later AshRa not too engaging as I remember it. Also the first one is around on CD, definitely a classic of sorts... R.I.P. Jon Abbey / Steve Smith _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:05:48 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: breaking the silence. In a message dated Mon, 28 Jan 2002 3:03:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Skip Heller writes: > > > > From: UFOrbK8@aol.com > > >i think that free jazz is a crappy name for stuff > > I always thought so too. "Free jazz" has as many behavioral norms built > into its standards and practices as be-bop. And you'll reflect that, at its > outset, be-bop was the music of liberation. I prefer the term Joey Baron > uses -- "non-symmetrical music". I've always preferred "creative improvisational music", a term I first saw in Cadence, and coined by someone to which I can't directly point fingers at. - -- np: Chicago Underground Quartet- live from some club in Chicago...can't remember where... =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:27:25 -0500 From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: Re: Canavarro + Drumm/Wehowsky (Was: lots of questions.) > Also: Does anyone want to discuss the recent Wehowsky/Drumm disc Just picked this up a couple of weeks ago and like it a lot. I was previously (and inexcusably) unfamiliar with Wehowsky (I understand that 'Tulpas' _must_ be heard) and I came in with expectations only on the Drumm side of things. So I'm not sure how representative or not it is of his work, but I liked the spareness very much, the way they both keep things on a "thin", linear kind of keel and wring some fascinating stuff out of it. His manipulations of sine tones and (I believe) controlled feedback almost always felt "right". Drumm's scrabblings were a very fitting foil and his introduction of some bluesy figures in the second piece was a pleasant and welcome surprise. Fine disc, I thought. Brian Olewnick NP: Roscoe Mitchell - Old/Quartet - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:54:55 -0800 (PST) From: "M.B." Subject: Maya Deren Hello, Is anyone here familiar with the field recordings of Maya Deren, and are they at all obtainable? Zorn mentions these recordings slightly in the liner notes to Filmworks X. Thanks, Mike ===== Conversation Piece Talk about the death of an imaginary person. If somebody is interested, bring out a black framed photograph of the deceased and show. If friends invite you, excuse yourself by explaining about the death of the person. 1963 Summer--Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:06:54 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Rizzi Subject: Re: morenette >>sorry, rizzi, if this is too heavy to get over the firewall. > >Rizzi can handle it. It ain't heavy, it's my brother. mike groan - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:20:50 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: breaking the silence. >From: Dgasque@aol.com > >I've always preferred "creative improvisational music" I'm partial to Mingus' definition: Ethnic Folk-Dance Music (which first appeared on 'The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady'', leading Impulse! Records to change their tagline to: "The new wave of folk music is on...") Plus, I've always been under the impression that the 'free jazz' moniker had as much to do with politics as with playing concepts. Welcome back Mr. Smith! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:19:48 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: damned if i do... This list is really going down... Now I understand why Godel would be sorry. Patrice. ..damned if i don't. shot down for non-intellectual content, shot down for hyper-intellectual content. how, in my late-capitalist postmodernist avant-gardist little world can i ever strike a balance?! [this post to me feels like a roy lichtenstein painting - one in the "OH, BRAD!" series.] k8. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:22:20 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: John Luther Adams query i studied with JLA at oberlin for quite some time... i can pretty much tell you everything you want to know about him and his music... except specific instrumentations. i was involved with technical aspects of strange and sacred noise and in the white silence both, and i can tell you that strange and sacred noise is a pain in the ass to set up and deal with spatially. email me off list for more details... k8. http://www.alaska.net/~jla (john luther adams' website) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:25:34 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Maya Deren >From: "M.B." > >Is anyone here familiar with the field recordings of >Maya Deren, and are they at all obtainable? Divine Horsemen - The Voodoo Gods of Haiti is available on the Lyrichord label. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:30:15 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: JLA recording from PGCincinnati John Luther Adams has a well-designed and informative website at www.johnlutheradams.com, which seems to have details about most of his works. Strange and Sacred Noise is scored for a percussion quartet, though the exact disposition of the instruments is not detailed. It is due to be released on Mode in fall, performed by Percussion Group Cincinnati i was at the precursors to this recording. you can contact alan otte at Cincinnati Conservatory of Music for information about it - i think he's the head of the perc. dept. down there, and he's the lead player on this recording. he's an asshole, but he might be helpful. love, k8. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:45:32 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: damned if i do... On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:19:48 EST UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > > This list is really going down... Now I understand why Godel would be sorry. > Patrice. > > ..damned if i don't. shot down for non-intellectual content, shot down for > hyper-intellectual content. how, in my late-capitalist postmodernist avant- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If sprinkling out of context big names is what you consider "hyper-intellectual content", why not after all. Everybody is entitled to the fun they can muster, I guess. That might even make a strong impression at tea party. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:22:55 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: damned if i do... - --part1_133.870811c.2987536f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/28/02 6:46:42 PM Central Standard Time, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: > > This list is really going down... Now I understand why Godel would be > sorry. > > Patrice. > > > > ..damned if i don't. shot down for non-intellectual content, shot down > for > > hyper-intellectual content. how, in my late-capitalist postmodernist > avant- > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > If sprinkling out of context big names is what you consider > "hyper-intellectual > content", why not after all. Everybody is entitled to the fun they can > muster, > I guess. That might even make a strong impression at tea party. > > Patrice. if you were paying any attention at all, you would have noticed that *gasp* there was content and context for my "sprinkling...big names". i was talking about a piece i was working on. an avant-garde piece. an experimental piece! oh see how we can bring the topic back around... children children, gather round the circle, it seems like it is time for a round of kum-bay-a... can i talk about folk music? and drop some names everyone knows and probably everyone on this listserv detests? if so, i propose that we talk about the influence of the song "this land is your land" on the later music of one john zorn. anyone remember who john zorn is? [peers out into 698 blank stares, since this list has been content free for so many days now...] :) xo love, k8. - --part1_133.870811c.2987536f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/28/02 6:46:42 PM Central Standard Time, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes:


> This list is really going down... Now I understand why Godel would be sorry.
>     Patrice.
>
> ..damned if i don't.  shot down for non-intellectual content, shot down for
> hyper-intellectual content.  how, in my late-capitalist postmodernist avant-
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If sprinkling out of context big names is what you consider "hyper-intellectual
content", why not after all. Everybody is entitled to the fun they can muster,
I guess. That might even make a strong impression at tea party.

    Patrice.


if you were paying any attention at all, you would have noticed that *gasp* there was content and context for my "sprinkling...big names".  i was talking about a piece i was working on.  an avant-garde piece.  an experimental piece!  oh see how we can bring the topic back around...  children children, gather round the circle, it seems like it is time for a round of kum-bay-a...  <whips out acoustic guitar>  can i talk about folk music?  and drop some names everyone knows and probably everyone on this listserv detests?  if so, i propose that we talk about the influence of the song "this land is your land" on the later music of one john zorn.  anyone remember who john zorn is? 

[peers out into 698 blank stares, since this list has been content free for so many days now...]

:)

xo

love,
k8.





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