From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #724 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, January 30 2002 Volume 03 : Number 724 In this issue: - Re: NRBQ's Ardolino (was: Re: The Gift) Re: Stockhausen (was spectral muzik.) Re: spectral muzik. erasing Dave Douglas? Re: deranged rap recommendations jazz punk music theory... hiphop Re: deranged rap recommendations Re: Ralph Carney recommendations, Was: Re: The Gift/Ribot/Douglas Re: hiphop Re: deranged rap recommendations d-mented rap Re: Ralph Carney recommendations, Was: Re: The Gift/Ribot/Douglas Re: deranged rap recommendations Re: deranged rap recommendations Re: deranged rap recommendations Re: Re: deranged rap recommendations Re: music theory... Re: jazz punk Re: Re: music theory... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:22:05 -0800 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: NRBQ's Ardolino (was: Re: The Gift) > From: "thomas chatterton" > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:16:30 +0000 > To: velaires@earthlink.net > Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: NRBQ's Ardolino (was: Re: The Gift) > >> >> Odd that you like the records without Ardolino. That drummer, Tom Staley, >> is bud of mine. Do you mind if I forward your post to him? He'd love it. > > Not at all! What's he up to these days? I certainly dig the records with > Ardolino too, it's just those first ones had a rare kind of r'n'r innocence > (for lack of a better description, more a reflection of the times), > especially considering what other bands were playing (I really dug the > Flamin' Groovies back then too). He's playing in Florida. He has a website, www.tomstaleytoday.com skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:21:27 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Stockhausen (was spectral muzik.) - --- "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > For those who checked out Stockhausen a while back > and were repulsed by the > expense, you should check it out again. The 7-cd > set of intuitive music, > From the Seven Days, which used to be around $180 > IIRC, is now only $103 > (although he now adds an additional handling charge, > which used to be > included). Last time I visited the site, I couldn't tell if the SEVEN DAYS recordings released by Stockhausen Verlag (the music on the 7cd set) were "original" recordings or more recent. Just curious. - -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:29:55 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: spectral muzik. >From: UFOrbK8@aol.com > >it bugs me that people find stockhausen to be stodgy and extremely academic >and stuff. while there is a lot of theory that goes into a lot of his >pieces, some of his pieces are really fuckin' neat... And you're all still wondering whether Ornette's theory of harmolodics is bulls**t, you should spend some time in the rarified ivory towers of academia, that will really turn your eyes brown. It's a wonder that the music actually gets performed and recorded, so much time seems to be wasted on conceptions, obtuse (the more the better right?) theories and pretty looking scores. And please don't misconstrue this post as a negative jab, I really dig Stockhausen and Xenakis, but the proof is in the puddin' whether it sounds good or not, I don't really give a rat's a** about the theory behind it, I don't need to understand of harmolodics to enjoy Ornette's music (or not). Talking about musical theory is like phone sex... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:50:28 -0800 (PST) From: Theo Klaase Subject: erasing Dave Douglas? ...anyone who would erase Dave Douglas from the Masada recordings should "shampoo my crotch." My first exposure to Masada had me wondering if Dave Douglas was the right side-kick (I was thinking how great George Lewis would've been) but after collecting the entire Masada discography I came to my senses to say the least. Dave's strong personality seems to really shine thru and like mathematics, it seems confusing/complex at first, then the problem is solved and you wonder why you didn't see the answer in the first place. Just listen to those live recordings where Dave is playing with Greg and Joey and Zorn's taking a breather... The chemistry seems undeniable... "Of course that's my opinion, I could be wrong..." - -Theo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:59:38 -0800 From: "carlos torres" Subject: Re: deranged rap recommendations Quasimoto is indeed a good buy...but dont forget about pharcyde's "bizzare ride II" and company flow's "fun crusher plus"..a new group ive been listening to, while not as deranged as you may be looking for, is clouddead. they have a fresh style along with great free verse lyrics. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:07:15 -0800 From: "carlos torres" Subject: jazz punk im not too sure about this at all...but ive heard people talk about bands that were "punk jazz/jazz punk" as if there was an actual genre for it...if so..what are some good bands that fall into this category? all i can think of that comes close to "punk jazz" is some of the old no wave stuff..ala the contortions. thanks in advance. carlos _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:19:25 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: music theory... - --part1_26.2259acb8.2989a13d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/30/02 12:30:45 PM Central Standard Time, chatterton23@hotmail.com writes: > ). Talking about musical theory is like phone sex... or talking about music is like dancing about architecture... ;) - --part1_26.2259acb8.2989a13d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/30/02 12:30:45 PM Central Standard Time, chatterton23@hotmail.com writes:


).  Talking about musical theory is like phone sex...



or talking about music is like dancing about architecture...  ;)



 - --part1_26.2259acb8.2989a13d_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:20:37 -0800 (PST) From: jason tors Subject: hiphop these suggestions are great, please keep them coming. Any word on Aesop Rock with the album Labor Days? read a review of them on pitch4k... could be interesting... http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/a/aesop-rock/labor-days.shtml __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:17:54 -0500 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: deranged rap recommendations > Quasimoto is indeed a good buy...but dont forget about pharcyde's "bizzare > ride II" and company flow's "fun crusher plus"..a new group ive been > listening to, while not as deranged as you may be looking for, is clouddead. > they have a fresh style along with great free verse lyrics. Clouddead's debut record was my #1 album of 2001. It's so OUT THERE....I wouldn't even call it hip hop...it's a truly experimental pop record. It is amazing though, and I recommend it to anyone. andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:24:57 -0800 (PST) From: nme Subject: Re: Ralph Carney recommendations, Was: Re: The Gift/Ribot/Douglas I believe that he played as part of the group Rubber City, who contributed two excellent tracks to the Wild at Heart soundtrack (and that seems to be the extent of their recorded output). Correct me if I'm wrong. - -nme! - --- Remco Takken wrote: > > As > an aside, does anyone have any recommendations on Ralph Carney who's the sax > player on the Raindogs album? I see him listed for shows occasionally in > the bay area, CA and think about checking him out. ===== "Are you amplified to rock? Are you hoping for a contact?" -GbV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:24:22 -0500 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: hiphop > these suggestions are great, please keep them coming. Any word on Aesop > Rock with the album Labor Days? Aesop Rock's "labor days" was another of my top-five of '01. The guy's probably the most creative MC working right now- he spits lines that remind one of Thomas Pynchon and David Foster Wallace, and is entirely free of braggadocio and bullshit. It's a solid record with some beautiful language and amazing skill. a - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:29:58 -0500 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: deranged rap recommendations For me, it's definitely MC Trachiotomy: Robot Alien or Ghost Obviously not for everybody but nothing I've heard comes close in terms of truly 'strange.' See http://www.anallog.com/trachinterview.html Best, Jason - -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1904 02:14:52 +0100 From: duncan youngerman Subject: d-mented rap Hello Andrew, You mention "good" Hip-hop. How would you fare Wu-Tang Clan's latest, "Iron flag"? I read some rave reviews of it, bought it ...and could'nt believe how unimaginative and stale it was. Had similar experiences with other biggies: Ice-cube, Ice-T, Snoopy dog (G. Clinton rip-off), etc. Speaking of which, one of my fave pre-hip-hop pieces is Parliament's long "Funkatelecky" (sp.?) (on the album that has the also great "Flashlight"): Zappa meets Cab Calloway meets James Brown. I see it as a definite precursor of d-mented (or whatever you want to call it) rap/hip-hop. Recommendations for "good" hip-hop welcome! Best, DY. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:46:39 -0800 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ralph Carney recommendations, Was: Re: The Gift/Ribot/Douglas > From: nme > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:24:57 -0800 (PST) > To: Zorn List > Subject: Re: Ralph Carney recommendations, Was: Re: The Gift/Ribot/Douglas > > I believe that he played as part of the group Rubber City, who contributed two > excellent tracks to > the Wild at Heart soundtrack (and that seems to be the extent of their > recorded output). Correct > me if I'm wrong. > > > -nme! I think he was in the Rubber City Rebels, who contributed 2 cuts to the Stiff Records AKRON COMPILAION, which had -- no lie -- a scratch'n'sniff tire on the cover (smelled like rubber). skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:44:34 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Cain?= Subject: Re: deranged rap recommendations <> If you like Quasimoto/Blackalicious/Quannum and Clouddead (or cLOUDDEAD), I'd recommend some of the acts on the UK label Big Dada (a Ninja Tune "subsidiary"), which licensed the Clouddead album for these climes. Best of their recent releases are Roots Manuva's 'Run Come Save Me' and especially New Flesh's 'Understanding' CD, very fresh-sounding. Their website is at http://bigdada.com/. Plus any or all of the following (have these been mentioned already?): Kool Keith, Mike Ladd, The Infesticons, Anti-Pop Consortium, Non Phixion, Encore, Dan The Automator, Deltron 3030, The Coup, Mr Len, etc etc. ===== www.info.net.nz/opprobrium __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:45:02 -0600 From: Mark Flaum Subject: Re: deranged rap recommendations hi I didn't get much from one listen to the Hawd Gankstah Rappuh Emcees, but their latest in on Load records (http://loadrecords.com ). That one and other stuff is available through midheavan mailorder (http://www.midheaven.com ), though I've had backorder problems with midheavan in the past. As for creative, deranged, or insane... well, there are the perennial favorites like the Antipop Consortium, Cannibal Ox, Company Flow, Mike Ladd, the Anticon/Mush scene (in particular Them, Clouddead, and the album Circles with Dose One and Boom Bip). Apart from that, there's almost too much to start listing. Try listening to some of the samples at sandbox automatic (http://sandboxautomatic.com - a great store for underground/). Some favorites of mine are New Kingdom, Shape Shifters, Aceyalone, the new Prefuse 73 album, etc. Hope this helps, mark. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1904 21:13:44 +0100 >From: duncan youngerman >Subject: deranged rap recommendations > >Hi, > >Someone about a month ago recommended Hawd Gankstah Rappuhs and I >have'nt been able to find their stuff on line=2E > >Any tips as to obtain their cd(s)? > >Would be very grateful for any other recommendation(s) for creative, >insane, deranged rap=2E > >(I always hear snippets out of car radios but can never get the names=2E >I've been impressed in the (now distant) past by Grandmaster Flash's >"The Message" and the Getto Boyz, some of Cypress >Hill, but am generally very disapointed when I chance to buy rap cds=2E >Either too unimaginative ad/or filled with boring pseudo-v=E9rit=E9 >interludes=2E > >Have'nt yet been able to nail down the really out-to-lunch people out >there (maybe they're just in my imagination)=2E > >Thanx=2E >DY=2E > > >- - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:03:32 -0500 From: "Matt S" Subject: Re: deranged rap recommendations just wanted to pass along this link: http://www.undergroundhiphop.com/ many of the names mentioned in this thread can be found there, including full versions of singles... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:05:13 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: deranged rap recommendations Fascinating that all of this experimental rap conversation hits my screen the same day I learn of an upcoming collaboration between Cannibal Ox and Isotope 217, at Symphony Space here in NYC on May 16, part of a three-day NYC+Chicago thing. (Previous night is John McIntire/Ikue Mori/Zeena Parkins, next night is Fred Anderson/Marc Ribot/Chad Taylor...) I'd like to be able to recommend the Hip Hop Hoodios, a new Latin/Jewish hip hop act from Brooklyn featuring a former bass player from the band Caifanes... I'd like to, that is, except that the music ended up being pretty perfunctory and the lyrics were along the lines of, "You like our dicks / And you like our noses..." (from "Dicks & Noses," of course... other titles include "Havana Nagila" and "Kike on the Mic"). You'll no doubt be reading about them elsewhere, soon... everyone loves a gimmick for a minute or two. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Diabolic, "Darken the Imagination," 'Vengeance Ascending' (Olympic) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:08:53 -0500 From: Bob Sweet Subject: Re: music theory... I never thought that dancing about architecture was all that unlikely or difficult to imagine. Bob Sweet bsweet@umich.edu read Music Universe, Music Mind http://www.arborville.com - --On Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:19 PM +0000 UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/30/02 12:30:45 PM Central Standard Time, > chatterton23@hotmail.com writes: > > > > ). Talking about musical theory is like phone sex... > > > > > or talking about music is like dancing about architecture... ;) > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:14:17 -0500 From: Subject: Re: jazz punk > im not too sure about this at all...but ive heard people talk about >bands that were "punk jazz/jazz punk" as if there was an actual >genre for it...if so..what are some good bands that fall into There was an attempt in the early 80s to use this as a marketing phrase for Blood Ulmer, Shannon Jackson and maybe a few others so they could cross-over to the rock fans. I don't know if the phrase worked but these people did get rock press attention at the time (& I used to play them constantly on my radio show in the wilds of Alabama). Since then I haven't heard the phrase much but stuff that might fit would be Naked City, The Ex w/Cora, Last Exit, etc. Apparently Blind Idiot God (and maybe other late SST bands?) might qualify but I've never heard them. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:17:47 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: music theory... > I never thought that dancing about architecture was all that >unlikely or difficult to imagine. Yes, it makes sense to use one form about space to comment on another. This must be one of those phrases that sounds good until you examine it, sort of like "comparing apples to oranges" (which of course is something most of us do quite often; didn't Orwell say something like we should use "comparing a rose to a wrench" because those have completely different functions). - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #724 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. 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