From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #785 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Sunday, February 17 2002 Volume 03 : Number 785 In this issue: - COBRA re: cello RE: All about cello Re: All about cello Re: Growing Old Gracefully (was Zorn List Digest V3 #782) Re: All about cello RE: COBRA RE: COBRA More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music American Pop Re: All about cello Re: American Pop Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music Tom Cora Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music RE: All about cello Re: American Pop Re: American Pop Re: All about cello Re: All about cello RE: American Pop Re: American Pop Re: American Pop Love & Theft/Scheherezade Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:28:05 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Brooker Subject: COBRA Hello- Are there any other recordings of Cobra available besides: Tokyo Operations '94 Hat Art Double CD Live/Studio Cobra Performances Upcoming Cobra Release on Tzadik next month. Thanks, Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:53:26 GMT From: "nors5379" Subject: re: cello please, please dont forget rufus cappadocia. he's most notable as the celloist for matt darriau's paradox trio and david fiuczynski's kif. a very dynamic player that in my opinion is often over looked. he playing is extremely fluid and its a mix between upright bass and typical cello playing. check out his website at: http://www.torsos.com/rufus/index.html erik friedlander is also a good choice too. very similar in style to rufus. his first topaz disc was one of my greatest scores over break out of the used bins. - -darryl. Darryl Norsen db.etree.org/shortround nors5379@fredonia.edu volerniemickey@hotmail.com if I were an easy bright boy I think I would say something like, "cleaning the fingernails with a dirty fingernail file is a form of masterbation." and I would probably win a scholarship, a grant, the king's sword on shoulder and 14 hot pieces of ass. -charles bukowski - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:44:31 -0500 From: "Zachary Steiner" Subject: RE: All about cello Eric Dolphy's "Out There," I think it was his first album for Prestige. Instead of a trumpet or another reed, he plays in the quartet with a cello. It's incredible. There are lots of good cello solos and some nifty interplay. I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's name and I don't have the case with me. Zach - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:07:54 -0500 From: James Hale Subject: Re: All about cello Ron Carter. I've never been a big fan of Carter's cello work, though I love him as a bassist. I find his cello work a bit too "clean". Also, I second the earlier vote for David Eyges. Check out the reissue of his "Crossroads" with Byard Lancaster and Sunny Murray, or his gorgeous work with Jeanne Lee. James Zachary Steiner wrote: > Eric Dolphy's "Out There," I think it was his first album for Prestige. > Instead of a trumpet or another reed, he plays in the quartet with a > cello. It's incredible. There are lots of good cello solos and some > nifty interplay. I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's > name and I don't have the case with me. > > Zach > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:03:19 -0800 From: skip heller Subject: Re: Growing Old Gracefully (was Zorn List Digest V3 #782) on 2/17/02 7:48 AM, Nvinokur@aol.com at Nvinokur@aol.com wrote: > But what is the criteria...obviously, a 60 year old should not be making the > music of a 20 year old, or try to (are you listening Mick Jagger), but on the > other hand, while perhaps not making the most crucial music of their career, > Neil Young and Keith Richards are truly devoted to their muse. > > Also, what age should we start at? Is U2 old? Is Beck? My personal criterion for this -- and it's by no means scientific -- is 50. That's how old my dad was when I graduated high school, and I noticed his concerns becoming much different. U2 have been in the big recording business for twenty years now. To put it another way, twenty years after "Please Please me" was 1983. Think about it. Twenty years at the same job. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:04:45 -0800 From: skip heller Subject: Re: All about cello on 2/17/02 10:44 AM, Zachary Steiner at zsteiner@butler.edu wrote: Hank Roberts' playing on Tim berne's FULTON STREET MAUL is still an eye-opener for me. Also, a lot of people like Oscar Pettiford's cello stuff. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:02:37 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: COBRA There was a Knitting Factory release, 'John Zorn's Cobra Live at the Knitting Factory' (KWF CD 124) that featured excerpts from a lot of different Cobras, back when the game was played regularly by different groups at the Knitting Factory. While you don't get an entire performance, you do get some pretty fascinating snippets, including an all-vocal Cobra that included Brutal Truth's Kevin Sharp, former Soul Coughing vocalist and KF doorman M. Doughty, and pre-fame Jeff Buckley. Some of the other Cobras on it are pretty interesting as well, including a clearly proto-Radical Jewish Culture Cobra with David Krakauer, Frank London and Alicia Svigals, and another one built around the core members of G-D Is My Co-Pilot. There are also Jazz Passengers all over the place. (The performance by an all-critics group, prompted by Kevin Whitehead and featuring the alto sax stylings of Ira Gitler, seems to have gone undocumented, sadly.) Zorn apparently hated the disc and fought long and hard to have it deleted. I think he finally succeeded a couple of years ago and the catalog number was reassigned to the Tom Cora collection he and Bruce Gallanter assembled. But I'm sure you might be able to scare up the KF Cobra release if you search a bit. Check Patrice's discography for complete details of the contents. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ravel, 'L'enfant et les sortileges' (Opera D'Oro) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:42:57 -0500 From: "Zachary Steiner" Subject: RE: COBRA I got my copy on Gemm last year some time. You could check there if you are interested. Zach - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:31:08 EST From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions? Here's more from Nick Lowe: Q: Do you keep up with your teen pop? A: "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around. The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one another. And that music to me, especially after September 11th, it's so redundant. In a stroke, it became totally dated and out-fashioned. Whereas the boy band thing . . . we could do with a bit more of that; quite refreshing and totally acceptable." This kinda falls in line with the Britney discussion that hung around here like a persistent cold. Poppin' to Matthew Shipp's "Nu Bop," tom - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:44:58 -0800 From: skip heller Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, Samerivertwice@aol.com at Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions? Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:59:30 -0500 From: "Zachary Steiner" Subject: American Pop Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel Torme, et al? There is a special place in my heart for those cats. Zach - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:09:59 -0800 From: " A.VanValin" Subject: Re: All about cello - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: All about cello > ... a friend who stared playing the cello ...might ... lead in to the > twisted world of "zornlist music". > > [warning: no zorn content, no music recomendation, only a mild cautionary tale] Mark Salzman in his memoir "Lost in Place: Growing Up Absurd in Suburbia" talks about - among other things - his painfully adolescent attempts to pioneer 70's fusion cello. The image of a sixteen year old playing along to Return to Forever records and inventing (at least as far as he knew) lap-style cello is going to be stuck in my mind for years. Akk. Van - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:42:29 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: American Pop >From: "Zachary Steiner" >To: >Subject: American Pop >Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:59:30 -0500 > >Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop >singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel >Torme, et al? AND Johnnie Ray, lest we forget! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:20:43 EST From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music - --part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/17/02 5:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, Samerivertwice@aol.com at Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > > > Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions? > > Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders. > Amen to that. So it goes, tom - --part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/17/02 5:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:


on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, Samerivertwice@aol.com at Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote:

> Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?

Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders.


Amen to that.

So it goes,
tom - --part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:31:41 EST From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: Tom Cora >Has he done anything which is more constantly melodic?? hmmmm. Well, he was an improvisor & a "new music" type fellow. Having said that, you might find his work with CURLEW to be of interest. I would recommend their albums: A Beautiful Western Saddle or "Bee" He was also on two albums by the US/Swiss band NIMAL, who were sorta an RIO-leaning avant-progressive type band. Really good & some great melodies. Try: Voix A Surface Hope this helps. Steve - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:19:39 -0800 From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > > [Nick Lowe:] The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their > roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one > another. I would *dare* him to come up with two hundred names that fit this description - -- I mean, that really fit the description: a) have roots in Nirvana and b) are "absolutely indistinguishable". Anybody who would make such a statement isn't qualified to make it. All Asians look alike too, right? - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "It seems that the less respect you have for the legacy of jazz, the more likely you are to create it." -- Steve Hanson np: nothing nr: John D'Agata, _Halls of Fame_ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:00:45 -0300 From: "Hugo Linares" Subject: RE: All about cello Julian wrote: jazz/experimental stuff. I haven't checked out Erik Friedlander as leader, - ------- You have to! Erik Friedlander as a leader is interesting to say the least. In no particular order: "Chimera" (Avan), "Topaz" (Siam Records), "Skin" (Siam Records), "Grains of Paradise" (Tzadik). Also I'd suggest to listen to Brazilian cellist and arranger Jaques Morelenbaum on Egberto Gismonti's"Musica de Sobrevivencia" (ECM) and Sting's "...All this time" (A&M Records). His playing is superb but underrated. Later, Hugo Linares NP: Nguyên Lê _Bakida_ (Act). Quite a surprising recording. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:42:41 -0800 From: Tosh Subject: Re: American Pop Anyone here on the list a fan of Johnnie Ray? He was the bridge between Sinatra and Elvis - -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:51:35 -0800 From: skip heller Subject: Re: American Pop on 2/17/02 6:42 PM, Tosh at tosh@loop.com wrote: > Anyone here on the list a fan of Johnnie Ray? > Tosh Berman Yes. sh - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:24:38 EST From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: All about cello Dave Holland -- Life Cycle. Tom - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:31:19 EST From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: All about cello Oh, and Buell Neidlinger -- Blue Chopsticks Just got this for Xmas and love it. You can buy it here: http://www.k2b2.com/catalog.html Tom - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:51:27 -0500 From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: American Pop Hello, ...hey, let's add Louis Prima to the list. What (admittedly little) I've heard from the guy was quite infectious. His version of "Just a Gigolo"/"I Ain't Got Nobody" immediately comes to mind. I remain... Joseph NP: Paul Bley Evan Parker Barre Phillips- "Sankt Gerold Variations" CD NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes" - -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 6:00 PM To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: American Pop Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel Torme, et al? There is a special place in my heart for those cats. Zach - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:51:37 EST From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: American Pop hoagy carmicheal - one of the great songwriters of his day - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:04:11 -0800 From: skip heller Subject: Re: American Pop on 2/17/02 7:51 PM, Nvinokur@aol.com at Nvinokur@aol.com wrote: > hoagy carmicheal - one of the great songwriters of his day - > > - > ... and, as with Johnny Mercer, one a of the more brilliant interpreters of nis own material sh - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:24:20 -0600 From: parry@macconnect.com Subject: Love & Theft/Scheherezade At first I didn't like "Love & Theft" as well as "Time Out of Mind," but I got real addicted to the songs and have listened to it more than almost anything else I picked up recently. Every time they play "Mississippi" on WWOZ, I get a taste for it again and have to get the album out. And every song I hear on it, almost, I think "OK, this is my favorite," but then the next one is also my favorite -- the mark of a great album. I still think "Time Out of Mind" is the better-sounding album, and more haunting, but "Love & Theft" has such a wonderful loose feel, and some of Dylan's most acerbic lyrics. One of my all-time favorite lines: "Why don't you break my heart one more time, just for good luck?" Just got back from Dylan's concert about 15 minutes ago, actually. It was grand, plenty of songs from the new album, but I really missed John Jackson and Bucky Baxter. I was never very taken with Charlie Sexton. He does a much better job as a sideman than I'd have expected, but Jackson played those wonderful fills that just seemed to bring something extra out of the songs. And Baxter was so earthy and elegant at the same time. Even though Sexton was at his best on the more rocking numbers -- they did a searing 'Watchtower" -- the Jackson-era lineup could actually rock harder. I saw a show in Daytona Beach that was almost punk at times. Anyway, it was quite heartening to be in a row full of 20-somethings who knew both old and new songs (even if I wished the girls next to me would giggle less), and pretty cool to be thinking "Oh, play something from the new one," when there are acts 10 years old where you think "God, just play the old stuff." I love "Scheherezade." I love all those over-emotional Russian composers. Parry - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 00:59:59 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music In a message dated 2/17/02 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, Samerivertwice@aol.com writes: << Here's more from Nick Lowe: Q: Do you keep up with your teen pop? A: "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around. The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one another. >> Not quite sure I understand Nick's POV there. Boy bands were already around before members of Nirvana had their first tit for breakfast. - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 01:03:11 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 12:59:59AM -0500, Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/17/02 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Samerivertwice@aol.com writes: > > << Here's more from Nick Lowe: > > Q: Do you keep up with your teen pop? > > A: "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around. > The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their > roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one > another. >> > > Not quite sure I understand Nick's POV there. Boy bands were already around > before members of Nirvana had their first tit for breakfast. I think what he's saying is that while the proliferation of boy bands doesn't surprise him, he's struck by the number of "alternative" groups that seem all to have been cut from the same roll of flannel. - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems | | http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #785 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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