From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #794 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, February 21 2002 Volume 03 : Number 794 In this issue: - bandleading -- food for thought re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine Re: Dolphy Re:Houle/Kang/van der Schyff The Gift / Re: Fwd: Tomahawk? help: cambodiand rocks The Gift in London Re: help: cambodiand rocks Re: help: cambodiand rocks re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine Re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine Re: Tomahawk Re: Slam (was: Elton Dean & others) Stomu Yamash'ta (No Zorn) illbient montreal concerts list German websites Re: hendrix bluegrass Review: David Grubbs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:50:45 GMT From: Parry Gettelman Subject: bandleading -- food for thought > I never implied for a second that there's not a bunch of compelling playing > there. I just presented the thought that maybe what some take as sterily is > simply guys trying to do a lot of new stuff for which they have not had the > most luxuriant rehearsal time, and might have sacrificed a little in order > to avoid making mistakes. I heard a prime example of what Skip is talking about when I went to see the all-star version of Sam Rivers' Rivbea Orchestra at Sweet Basil for his 75th birthday celebration. These were heavy-duty guys -- Steve Coleman, Greg Osby, Hamiett Bluiett, Ray Anderson, Gary Thomas, etc. -- and Sam had his usual brilliant rhythm section, but although the soloing was magnificent, the pieces just didn't live and breathe as vibrantly as they did when Sam's band in Orlando played them. That's the line-up that's on the 2000 RCA release "Culmination," and I'm still waiting for the recording of the Orlando big band to come out, because I heard an unmixed version and it was twice as good as "Culmination." All the guys in the all-star band had a history w/ Sam, but it just wasn't the same as hearing guys (and a girl or two) who got together once a week w/ Sam to rehearse and gigged fairly frequently. The Orlando ensemble had slightly different line-ups at rehearsals every week, depending on who had a paying gig and couldn't make it, but everybody had been working together so long that Sam could throw incredibly difficult music at them and it would come to life immediately. (Particularly amazing when Doug Mathews, the bassist, was working and the tuba player had to take on those bass parts.....) Of course, a lot of the band members worked at Disney and were terrific readers, too. Parry - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:48:34 EST From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine >Cuneiform also released a couple great radio sessions by the Soft Machine. >Virtually (1971) is the stronger of the 2 for my money, but Noisette >(1970) was nice also and has Elton Dean joined by Lyn Dobson on sax & flute. For those who are interested, coming in May is "Backwards" by Soft Machine: It contains a 38' session from May, 1970 with some excellent, really warm playing by Elton. It's in mono, but other than that, I think it may be the best sounding Soft Machine tape we've come up with yet. Additionally there is 12' of previously unreleased masterial by the "big band" version of Soft Machine (Ratledge/Hopper/Wyatt + Marc Charig, Nick Evans, Lyn Dobson & Elton Dean). And finally, the 22' 1968/69 hybrid demo of "Moon In June" is included in superior sound and released in full for the first time (the first half is solo Robert from October & November 1968, while the 2nd half adds the Soft Machine from spring, 1969). Steve Cuneiform - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:21:22 -0800 From: hyyy gbbbb Subject: Re: Dolphy Joseph, regarding what you call "abstract blue", I am guessing, based on your mention of Mr P.C., that the concert is feb.9-10 1962, recorded off an AM radio broadcast live from Birdland. This one has been out on numerous bootleg labels, and also just showed up on a pablo boxset (erroneously as one of a number of live european dates). I have an lp copy on the old Ozone label. graham connah > From: "josephneff" > Subject: RE: Dolphy > Now, one of the first jazz discs that I purchased (over a decade ago) was a > Telstar cheapy by John Coltrane titled "Abstract Blue". Anybody familiar w/ > this? The reason I ask is that Dolphy is all over this thing, but no credits > are given, and most of it is live material that may have been released in a > more attractive/appropriate package. It opens w/ a live "Mr. P.C." which > hits this shearly blissful balance of frenzy and melodics and Elvin is > positively on fire....any info would be so appreciated. > > I remain... > > Joseph > > NP: Matthew Shipp- "Pastoral Composure" CD > NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes" > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:12:11 -0600 From: Herb Levy Subject: Re:Houle/Kang/van der Schyff Thanks for the reminder of this trio's Points in Time CD. Now y'all will see how far ahead I've been programming Mappings in advance of our imminent server change. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:03:40 +0100 From: patRice Subject: The Gift / Re: Fwd: Tomahawk? Hi Efrén! I think I'll go - even though it means I have to cancel a DJing gig... Would love to see "The Gift" performed live; but I'll be in South East Asia by 8 March... Just like you, I've also only just really gotten into the CD - about three days ago I started listening to it a lot. Some great & fun pieces on it. Needless to say, I'm VERY much into Ribot's contributions & also Jamie Saft's. patRice np: Fantomas, Director's Cut nr: Plato, Symposium Efrén del Valle wrote: > Pat, > > Go! I wouldn't put it at such a high level as that of > FNM but it's a Patton live performance and I wouldn't > miss it for anything. I didn't like the record but > I'll go to their concert in Barcelona on March 8, > that's for sure. > I'm even thinking of going to London to see Zorn's > "The Gift" in March -if I'm not wrong-. I finally fell > in love with the record although I hated it in the > first place. Anyone knows where I can get more info of > this concert? (ticket sales, prices, reservations, > etc...). - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:54:34 +0000 (WET) From: Ricardo Reis Subject: help: cambodiand rocks [editor: they sell it at midheaven.com] anyone knows how can a get this record? i've come across a reference to it at: http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/reviews/cambodian.htm greets, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:47:19 +0000 From: Philip Clarkson Subject: The Gift in London > I'm even thinking of going to London to see Zorn's > "The Gift" in March -if I'm not wrong-. I finally fell > in love with the record although I hated it in the > first place. Anyone knows where I can get more info of > this concert? (ticket sales, prices, reservations, > etc...). > > Thanks. > > Efrn del Valle Have a look at http://www.barbican.org.uk/generic/details.asp?eventID=771&artFormID=2&artFo rm=music It should be fantastic... Phil Clarkson - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:48:10 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: help: cambodiand rocks I've got the vinyl version of this, which is labeled _Cambodia Rocks_ . Not sure if the CD has extra cuts or not. Anyway, the music style here is called "circle music", and it's MOL the Cambodian/regional version of late 60's rock/psych that was playing on American Forces Radio during the 'Nam conflict. Crazy stuff, unlike anything you've head before in your life, I can guarantee you. Worth the effort of a search. - -- =dg= ======================= In a message dated Wed, 20 Feb 2002 6:37:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ricardo Reis writes: > [editor: they sell it at midheaven.com] > > anyone knows how can a get this record? i've come across a > reference to it at: > > http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/reviews/cambodian.htm > > greets, > > Ricardo Reis > > "Non Serviam" > > > > > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:18:14 -0500 From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: help: cambodiand rocks > anyone knows how can a get this record? i've come across a >reference to it at: Well that review is off my website (for what it's worth the author of the review now does the Sinners Paradise show on WFMU) so maybe I can help. I bought mine from Twisted Village by mail order; last I noticed they still carried it. & Forced Exposure had it at one time. Best, Lang - ------------------------------------------- Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:43:50 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine >From: CuneiWay@aol.com > >For those who are interested, coming in May is "Backwards" by Soft Machine: Looking forward to that! Kudos to Cuneiform for continuing to release such great material from this visionary band. Noisette is amazing... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:05:27 -0800 From: skip heller Subject: Re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine on 2/20/02 7:43 PM, thomas chatterton at chatterton23@hotmail.com wrote: > Kudos to Cuneiform Here here. They reissued the complete Stickmen, with video. This is something only accomplished by giants. sh - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:18:08 +0100 From: francko.lamerikx@philips.com Subject: Re: Tomahawk > Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK project next week. > Anyone ever seen them live? > Recommended? Or not worth the trip? > Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other projects? Like just about everyone else, I thought the Tomahawk album was good but nothing more than that. Then came last weekend's concerts in Eindhoven and Amsterdam. Both were the absolute bomb, just as good as Fantomas or Faith No More (Mr.Bungle are still in a league of their own for me). It's easily Patton's most accessible group to date (even though it isn't really *his* group). His performance was as mind-blowing as ever, and they played some very neat improvised parts, some new songs that blow the debut album to pieces, and a couple of covers, like Roxy Music's "In Every Dreamhouse a Heartache" and Chet Baker's "Angel Eyes". Anyone with the slightest interest in contemporary rock music should see this band rule live. Frankco - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:11:48 +0100 (MET) From: Gerd Heinlein Subject: Re: Slam (was: Elton Dean & others) Forwarded message: > Elton Dean only really grew after his stint with Soft Machine. His OGUN > records from the seventies might have been re-released, I don't know, but he > regularly makes albums for Brit label SLAM, run by the great baritone sax > player George Haslam. I have no idea if these discs are still available. I > used to write Haslam personally, but we lost track after I moved a couple of > times. See http://members.aol.com/slamprods/ G.Heinlein - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:36:50 +0000 From: Richard Gardner Subject: Stomu Yamash'ta (No Zorn) Once again a request to all you knowledgeable members of the List. Does anyone know what happened to Stomu Yamash'ta. I really liked the stuff he did in the early 70's. The Contemporary Music solo album with stuff by Henze, Takemitsu and Maxwell Davis was my first introduction into truly contemporary music for which I am always grateful (and it had a wonderful cover shot). The album with Come To The Edge "Floating Music" and then the East Wind recording "Freedom is Frightening" were both good examples of early jazz-rock as against fusion. I enjoyed his solo "Red Buddha" album but lost interest after that. A quick check around the web shows him active in 1990 but nothing since. Is he still around making music? If anyone knows I would appreciate an update. Richard Gardner - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:53:26 +0100 From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: illbient I haven´t heard any life sign of this genre for months/years. The WE website isn´t updated for years. What about Liminal Lounge, Spooky...? Did I miss something or is illbient history? Andreas np: Third Person - The Bends (Knitting Factory) another recommendation for cello _________________________________________________________________ Mit MSN Fotos können Sie problemlos Ihre Fotos ausdrucken und anderen Benutzern zur Verfügung stellen: http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:57:50 -0500 From: Mathieu =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9langer?= Subject: montreal concerts list Hello, I'm afraid this is mainly of interest for those of you in the Montreal area... Sorry the lack of universal content. I've set up a sort of diffusion list to announce the concerts of avant-garde/experimental/free jazz/electronic/etc. in Montreal and the area. I've written a little web page with all the details (that I have to update though): http://www.cam.org/~magenta/concert.html Basically, if you'd like to get this weekly email, just let me know (mathieu_b@fastmail.fm) and I'll add your email to the list. If you have any questions, just email me (mathieu_b@fastmail.fm). If you think others would be interested, you are more than welcome to forward them the info. Thank you, Mathieu - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:48:41 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: German websites HI, I'm planning a trip to Köln within the next two months approx and would like to make it coincide with any good concerts or festivals in that area- maybe also Bonn or Netherlands. Any websites where I can check schedules in advance? (maybe too much advance but just in case...) Thanks in advance. Also, thanks for the MazzaCane recs. I'll buy a couple albums this weekend. I'm really intrigued. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger > Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. > http://messenger.yahoo.es > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:13:08 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: hendrix bluegrass In a message dated 2/20/02 11:22:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, ecstasymule@hotmail.com writes: << i'm all but certain the banjo-pickin hendrix disc is called 'pickin on hendrix'. there's a series of them, pickin' on aerosmith, others. they're, uh, not deep, but fun enough and the playing's ok. the only reason i have a few is that it's not too hard to find them for about $2. >> I want to say that Tony Trishka is one involved in the CD I was thinking about. _Pickin' on Hendrix_ doesn't sound familiar... - -- np: Greyboy All Stars- A Town Called Earth =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:11:43 -0500 From: David Keffer Subject: Review: David Grubbs After the demise of gastr del sol in 1998, I picked up the solo efforts by both David Grubbs and Jim O'Rourke. The list has discussed O'Rourke plenty, but there hasn't been much noise regarding Grubbs. Well, when they came out, I had picked up Grubbs' "Banana Cabbage, Potato Lettuce, Onion Orange" (Table of the Elements. 1997) and "The Thicket" (Drag City, 1998). The former is a semi-minimalist instrumental album that is well suited to what was the Table of the Elements esthetic. The latter was a collection of gastr-del-sol-like songs of sub-gastr-del-sol quality. With the latter, I stopped. (O'Rourke has also released collections of pop songs of sub-gastr-del-sol quality, which leads one to believe that there was a synergistic effect in gastr del sol.) Anyway, over the past five years, Grubbs continued to release on the label Blue Chopsticks (which appears to be Grubbs' own imprint on Drag City). I would read the press releases on these discs and they were frequently very interesting but I did not sample the fruits. I am one of those sorts of people with the bad habit of listening to a particular musician for too long, release after release, until they have not only started to suck, but established themselves as king of the hill of suckery. To counteract that impulse, I really make an effort of will to stop with an artist, when I first start to detect a downward trend. That said, the latest release on Blue Chopsticks featured Grubbs in collaboration with Tony Conrad et al., whom I like enough to take a chance on. Now, in doing that, my will crumbled and I also picked up two earlier Grubb releases on Blue Chopsticks, which I had passed on at the time of release. With that entirely unnecessary forward, we now get to the heart of the matter which is a three-in-one review of David Grubbs & Mats Gustafsson: Apertura (Blue Chopsticks, BC2, 1999) David Grubbs: The Coxcomb (Blue Chopsticks, BC5, 2000) David Grubbs (w/ Tony Conrad): Act Five, Scene One (Blue Chopsticks, BC9, 2002) Mats Gustafsson plays a flute fitted with a reed that he calls the fluteophone. He has appeared in all sorts of ensembles including incidentally a duet with O'Rourke on Incus, Xylophonen Virtuosen, (Incus 38, 1999). Anyway, "Apertura" features fluteophone with Grubbs on harmonium (which is a reed organ). Two half hour tracks of breezy drone. Very fine as such. Not intrusive but not completely ignorable. Low pitched and soothing. Not at all, for example, like a Tony Conrad drone. Ok, ok, ok. I can say nothing more useful about it except that I liked it. In addition to Tony Conrad, "Act Five, Scene One" also features Dan Brown on drums. This album is Grubbs' solution to expanding a four and a half minute track, which had been selected to be played over the sound system as part of an art installation, to a 60 minute cycle. The motivation being that a 4.5 minute song repeated over and over again would drive the gallery personnel crazy, whereas a 60 minute song would be more tolerable. So, 4.5 minutes appears twice in the 60 minutes, at the beginning and at the half hour mark. The remaining 51 minutes is filler. It doesn't sound promising, except that the filler is really as interesting as the original 4.5 minute piece. Calling it filler is a subjective term anyway since, if the minimalist drone on "Apertura" constitutes a legitimate piece of music (which of course it does!!!--Heaven forbid I restart that thread.), then certainly the music between the 4.5 minute piece also is a work in its own right, despite Grubbs' liner notes to the contrary. Anyway, the 4.5 minute piece is some gastr del sol styled Grubbs on electric guitar--not too shabby, but not too ground-breaking. As for Tony Conrad, his presence is minimal. (That's not a pun; his violin isn't present on much of the cd.) While listening to "Act Five, Scene One", what I really felt was a longing to listen to gastr del sol's "The Harp Factory on Lake Street" (Table of the Elements, 1995) instead, which has a similar structure. That's really not a very positive thing to say about this album. I know that. The Coxcomb is an adaptation of Stephen Crane's "The Blue Hotel" to music. It is not an instrumental interpretation. It has all sorts of lyrics (presumably from the original source) over the top of it. Well, as I think back, I try to recall any instances where such adaptation efforts proved successful, in my opinion of course. I think usually they are too artsy-fartsy for my tastes. Only one good example could I think of. There is a 1970s Walt Disney lp that has a narrative (by Sterling Holloway aka Winnie the Pooh) of "Peter and the Wolf" over the music of Prokofiev, which still sounds great today. Other than that, adaptations with narration suck. (Perhaps this will generate emails with examples to the contrary.) I tried to be open minded with "The Coxcomb", but my gag reflex was automatically triggered during several wretched highlights in the piece. I made it all the way through once. No more needs be said. (Except that the totally unrelated B-side, "Avocado Orange" is pretty good.) The bottom line remains: Was it a worthwhile expenditure of time and money to check out these three releases by Grubbs? Or, would I have been just as satisifed to have stopped after "The Thicket" in 1997? Hard to say. Because you can't expect every piece of music to have some king of monumental impact on you, I think the difficulty in answering the questions points to a positive response: Yes, odds are it was worthwhile. David K. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #794 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com