From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #810 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, March 6 2002 Volume 03 : Number 810 In this issue: - Anja Garbarek (no JZ content) Re: book recommendations re:breakup songs RE: remastering Re: Stravinsky and remastering world music Re: world music Fwd: Re: world music Re: and the opposite of & something completely different Miles Copeland defends the record industry Just My Luck Re: Miles Copeland defends the record industry Re: Miles Copeland defends the record industry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:13:24 +0000 From: "David Evans" Subject: Anja Garbarek (no JZ content) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:08:01 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Mark Hollis/Talk Talk (no JZ content) Thanks for the website addresses Steve. I’ll check them out later (I should actually be working now instead of writing this) >"Bjork meets Laurie Anderson," I really don’t want to reopen the Bjork debate, but I think comparing any female singer to Bjork is either laziness or ignorance of who else is out there. I haven’t heard Balloon Mood so I can’t comment. If pushed I’d say Stina Nordenstam is a better comparison. >What's the Anja Garbarek disc like? I like it, I think it’s a very consistent album but I wouldn’t spend a fortune on it (and I’m British and used to being ripped off for CDs). Hollis produced and co-arranged (not co-wrote as I said earlier) 2 tracks; he plays bass, melodica and piano on one of those. The rest of the album is produced by Garbarek and Steven Wilson of No-Man/Porcupine Tree. What makes it sound more like Hollis’ solo album is that Lawrence Pendrous plays piano and Chris Laurence plays bass virtually all the way through. There’s also a lot of oboe and bassoon and some strings that give it that ‘chamber’ feel You’re right that it does also feature Steve Jansen (who’s already working with her on the follow-up), but not Richard Barbieri. Robert Wyatt’s performance is excellent – and I’m not normally a fan of his. According to what I’ve heard, Smiling and Waving is much more mature and individual than her first album. Apparently she wanted to fuse electronics with acoustic instruments, and S & W subtly achieves that. The best thing about it is, because she doesn’t have a particularly strong voice she’s worked hard to integrate it with the instruments and this works really well. IMHO! Hope this helps! By the way, does anyone know what that strange object is lurking on the cover of Hollis’ solo album? It looks like a cross between a cat after a road accident and a gingerbread man. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:19:53 +0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: book recommendations From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: book recommendations I guess the choice these days is either travel or fall behind on the Zorn list digests, and now that I'm only a week behind, I found this request by our pal Benito. Have you looked at the one by George Lipsitz, Ben? Check the link at Amazon below for his book Dangerous Crossroads: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1859849350/qid=1015410572/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-3798012-3753634 You might also want to check out Tricia Rose's work on rap as well as Richard Shusterman's essay, "the Fine Art of Rap" in his book Pragmatist Aesthetics. I've used a volume edited by Andrew Ross for some of my classes, but it's a bit dated now: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415909074/qid=1015413183/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/002-3798012-3753634 Also perhaps, simon Reynolds' book Generation Ecstasy. You might also consider using the films of Iara Lee, including Modulations and Synthetic Pleasures. Back to combing through the ever-prolific Z-list digests. One week to go, thank god. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:12:34 +0000 (GMT) From: alastair@pretentious.co.uk Subject: re:breakup songs - ------=_Part_5045_7436461.1015420354222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All this talk of break up songs and no-one has mentioned Peter Hammill? His entire 70s catalogue has helped/hindered me through heartbreaks old and new. If you're looking for unremitting bleakness, I recommend "Over", or Van Der Graaf Generator's almost-contemporaneous "Still Life", which tempers the misery with a bit of Arthur C Clarke. Alastair - -- Personalised email by http://another.com - ------=_Part_5045_7436461.1015420354222-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:11:53 -0500 From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: remastering This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1C4EE.F516FEB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Sean, I was wondering if the original version existed on CD, and got no response at all to my inquiry to the Zappa "estate." Is this a Mobile Fidelity gold disc? Dale. [Sean Westergaard] no, it was put out by Ryko. I think it was available for about 5 seconds. - ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1C4EE.F516FEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Sean, I was wondering if the original version existed on = CD, and=20 got no response at all to my inquiry to the Zappa "estate." Is this a = Mobile=20 Fidelity gold disc?

Dale.
[Sean=20 Westergaard] 
 
no, it was put out by Ryko.  = I think it was=20 available for about 5=20 seconds. 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1C4EE.F516FEB0-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:26:54 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Stravinsky and remastering On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:10:02 +0100 duncan youngerman wrote: > > I'm not sure Strawinsky conducting Strawinsky is really a reference in itself, > whether remastered or not. > > If you want to own a definitive, breathtaking, state-of-the-art recording of > "Sacre du Printemps", I would recommend you spend your bucks on the 1992 > Deutsche Grammophon CD by Pierre Boulez with the Cleveland Orchestra (also > including "Petrushka"), and which is not to be confused with a ca.1970 version. Strawinsky is quite interesting since, if I remember well, the rhythm on one of his direction of the Rite of the Spring is quite different from anybody else. Also, who else would have dare to record The Wedding with... English voices!!! Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:22:36 -0800 From: "gorilla thing" Subject: world music Hello and once again welcome to the world of help Chad find new music. I'm looking for any suggestions of 'World Music' I like Nusrat, Jajouka, and Hamzel El Din and I'm still on the hunt for more. Thanks ahead of time. Chad P.S. regarding break-up cd's any Leonard Cohen cd satisfies my mood swing heartaches _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:13:01 -0500 From: "Michael Berman" Subject: Re: world music i am particularly addicted to gnawa Moroccan music. laswell put out a = nice selection of stuff on his axiom label- Night Spirit Masters. = actually laz, fwiw, has a lot of 'world' stuff-check out his new one of = Gigi on Palm. ive liked everything he put out on axiom and the = celluloid stuff (toure kunda, etc.), though many might disagree. Hassan = Hakmoun has a few good ones out too, one with Don Cherry - the man who = pretty much brought 'world' music to jazz, imo. of course Fela is a must too. also, i strongly recommend Amelia Rodriguez for soulful Portuguese Fado = singing. for starters..... m - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: gorilla thing To: Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: world music > Hello and once again welcome to the > world of help Chad find new music. >=20 > I'm looking for any suggestions of 'World Music' > I like Nusrat, Jajouka, and Hamzel El Din and I'm still on the hunt = for=20 > more. >=20 > Thanks ahead of time. >=20 > Chad >=20 > P.S. regarding break-up cd's > any Leonard Cohen cd satisfies my mood swing heartaches >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at = http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. >=20 >=20 > - >=20 >=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:52:58 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: world music Hi, I regularly check a collection from UNESCO that covers many great folk music. I specially dig their Bali and China releases. I think a nice Japanese Gagaku album was also in that collection. If you decide to check out don't miss "Guitare Hawaiene Authentique" (I don't speak French, sorry about the spelling) and a collection of Sephardic tunes. Sorry about the rachitic info but I don't have those Cds at hand right now. Best, Efrén del Valle > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:22 PM > Subject: world music > > > > Hello and once again welcome to the > > world of help Chad find new music. > > > > I'm looking for any suggestions of 'World Music' > > I like Nusrat, Jajouka, and Hamzel El Din and I'm > still on the hunt for > > more. > > > > Thanks ahead of time. > > > > Chad > > > > P.S. regarding break-up cd's > > any Leonard Cohen cd satisfies my mood swing > heartaches > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > - > > > > > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:57:29 +0100 From: Geert Buelens Subject: Re: and the opposite of & something completely different > At 10:27 AM -0800 3/4/02, skip Heller wrote: > >So -- what does the list list as best "new love in > bloom" music? > > Al Green, Al Green, Al Green and Al Green. I was in a > bar in Berkeley once and suddenly found myself > duetting "Still in Love With You" with a woman I'd > never met before in my life, just because we'd both > just happened to walk to the bar for another round at > the same time. It was amazing -- he's ATOMIC SPANISH > FLY! i kinda like bill withers 'lovely day'. on an entirely different note: for a piece on (free) jazz and policital (freedom) movements in the 1960s, i'm looking for interesting books/articles dealing with this subject. (i already have valerie wilmer's "as serious as your life"). thanks, geert - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:12:25 -0500 From: Mark Saleski Subject: Miles Copeland defends the record industry the following article surfaced in one of my exotica mailing list digests. i was wondering what you all thought about it. http://www.riaa.org/Guest_Column031500.cfm - -- Mark Saleski - marks@foliage.com | http://www.foliage.com/~marks "Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:44:49 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Just My Luck She's looking into my eyes, she's holding my hand She's looking into my eyes, she's holding my hand She says, "You can't repeat the past." I say, "You can't? What do you mean, you can't? Of course you can." Where do you come from? Where do you go? Sorry that's nothin' you would need to know Well, my back has been to the wall for so long, it seems like it's stuck Why don't you break my heart one more time just for good luck --from 'Summer Days' off _Love and Theft_. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:44:57 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Miles Copeland defends the record industry > the following article surfaced in one of my exotica mailing list Most of it's true enough but stops short. Anybody who's ever worked in any kind of retail industry realizes that the claims that since a CD costs only $1 (his example but I've more often heard anywhere from $3 to $6) to manufacture doesn't mean that $16 final price is overcharging. The physical costs are usually the least important. But what he doesn't point out is that this final price might be high because of inept or entrenched management, outdated industry practices, overspending, short changing artists because the companies have the position of power, or simply because they want the prices to be the same as everybody else's. In other words, $16 might not be overpriced under the current system but that doesn't mean the system is a good one. As for the companies not showing much of a profit on their annual reports, well maybe and maybe not but that doesn't mean that some of the people working for them aren't well compensated. (Certainly not all since the lower level e! mployees at a major label probably aren't any better off than they would be anywhere else.) And the "Internet geniuses" who can't make money? No, it's the business people like Copeland who can't. The Internet geniuses built the damn thing and designed peer-to-peer file sharing and compression technology and historically have actually opposed making money off the Internet. And just look at the recent report in the New York Times about the major labels' own online services where not only were they paying artists an almost trivial amount but the labels didn't even get permission (several bands like No Doubt had their music removed until the labels negotiated properly). - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:59:55 -0800 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: Miles Copeland defends the record industry on 3/6/02 12:12 PM, Mark Saleski at marks@foliage.com wrote: > > > the following article surfaced in one of my exotica mailing list > digests. i was wondering what you all thought about it. > > http://www.riaa.org/Guest_Column031500.cfm Gee, Miles is painting in broad strokes, isnt he? He makes a few valid points, espec with regard to new companies not having catalog to rely on for bedrock sales over time, but he's ignoring some basic stuff. One of the things that has screwed the industry is greed on boths sides of the table. Labels offer big advances to artists, advances that are unlikely to be recouped. Artists want the money, but the unfortunately tendancy is to be short-sighted. Let's look at this from a theoretical downtown music standpoint and you'll see what I mean. Say Mark Feldman catches the ear of an A&R guy at Sony, just at a time when Sony is feeling the need to revamp their jazz roster and what it represents out in the marketplace. So Mark is courted and eventually wooed by Mr Sony, who tells him to contract any players he likes as artistic freedom is part of the deal. Mr Feldman responds by hiring, say, Klucevsek on accordion, Erik friedlander on cello, and Milford Graves (as long as we're being theoretical, let's dream big). he gets Dave Douglas to play on a couple tunes. The advahnce is healthy enough that he not only pays everybody three times what they usually get, but he pockets a helluva a lot more than you will with HatArt. So Feldman makes his album, and the Zorn list thinks it's bitchen, ads are taken in Downbeat and similar publications, but mainstream jazz radio (who have had fantastic luck with Brad and Josh R) won't touch it. There no standard songs, and -- with no bass or piano -- nothing straight-ahead enough to program next to "Dat Dere" or any of their other perennial choices. The record barely sells, and Feldman's deal is done. Record stores return the thing in droves. Also, he's paying anywhere from five to seven dollars a copy for copies to sell off the bandstand. The party is over in a hurry. Even worse, when the artist returns to smmall label-land to put out his new record, his advance sales to stores suffer, because stores remember returning his last opus in DROVES. It's a very effective form of negative publicity for his next record, and probably the most concrete. And the jazz sections of stores are given less physical (floor space) expansion opportunities, because jazz records sell less than rock, and new rock always will beat jazz for pure dollars and therefore floorspace. In the non-mainstream world, sales of 30,000 are multi-platinum. Straight ahead jazz records are really really lucky to do 5,000 copies, and in many if not most cases the kind of stuff we beat our chests over on this list barely break 1,000. To a label as big as Sony, we'd have to escalate to be worth peanuts. We're micro-peanuts. One thing Miles Copeland does not seem to understand is that, because audiences have been developed in super-specific ways, there is more splintering of clientele than there used to be. "Jazz" used to mean a certain thing, but the average Bill frisell consumer is not neccessarily the average Cecil Taylor consumer is not neccessarily the average Art Blakey consumer and so forth. But major labels do not want to deal with small sales, even though a record with low sales numbers can make money if it's recorded for a reasonable budget and promoted accordingly. Oone practical answer might be if majors opened up their own outpost branches and saw how well what they signed and recorded for $10,000 did in the marketplace before dumping $30,000 into it. But everybody is deeply into playing a numbers game to the point where that looks unlikely anytime soon. As for the net, what Miles does not seem to realize is that audiences know how to use the net more than labels do. Davedouglas.com has probably been a more relevant promo tool than just about anything else for Dave's various projects and how his profile is maintained. It works like that for most of us who live in the margins, too. But until the "bigger is better" mentality is dismissed both by artists and labels alike, there will be trouble. The first question the artist should ask is, "Am I better off at Sony, or at [fill in the name of smaller label who actually stays in business selling this stuff]? " The practical reality is that he's better off at [ ], but will take the major label payday, when he probably should have stayed small, as his records are not really made for a crossover audience (think of a Josh redman fan checking out Ellery eskelin to dig what I mean by "crossover"). To wit -- those of you who attend the Alex/Nels Cline-promoted shows in Eagle Rock might know an Italian restaurant up the street called Julio's, which closed not so long ago, even tho it did big business. The buiding and liquor license came up for sale for big $. Up the street is a smaller, Mom & Pop establishment called the Capri, a little joint with probably a dozen tables. I asked Pop (whose name is actually Dick) if he was going to look into moving into Julio's. "Hell no. How many pizzas do you think I can sell?" If record labels and artists took this attitude, things might be healthier for us all. skip h - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #810 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com