From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #814 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, March 11 2002 Volume 03 : Number 814 In this issue: - re: zorn's ritual MARK BEYER ("Spy Vs. Spy" artist) Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Patton's bad taste?! Melvins Die Like A Dog Quartet- "Aoyama Crows" Re: A bit more cello RE: A bit more cello Re: Patton's bad taste?! Re: Patton's bad taste?! Re: Melvins Re: Melvins Fwd: Re: Patton's bad taste?! Re: Patton's bad taste?! Re: Melvins Re: Patton's bad taste?! Fwd: Re: Patton's bad taste?! Re: Fwd: Re: Patton's bad taste?! Ellery and the World ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:13:40 GMT From: "nors5379" Subject: re: zorn's ritual not to burst your bubble but the premier performance of 'ritual' was not last night at cooper union, but actually thursday night at eastman school of music where lubman teaches. a friend who goes there, attended and said it was an amazing performance. another friend who is on this list may care to comment because he was in attendance as well (andy? haha) - -darryl. Darryl Norsen db.etree.org/shortround nors5379@fredonia.edu volerniemickey@hotmail.com if I were an easy bright boy I think I would say something like, "cleaning the fingernails with a dirty fingernail file is a form of masterbation." and I would probably win a scholarship, a grant, the king's sword on shoulder and 14 hot pieces of ass. -charles bukowski - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:18:57 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: MARK BEYER ("Spy Vs. Spy" artist) Does anyone here know how/where to contact Mark Beyer (artist of "Spy Vs. Spy" cover)? If so, please contact me OFFLIST at: blackoperations_uk@hotmail.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:05:32 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Patton's bad taste?! HI, As the story was told to me, the supposed Patton collaboration had just been a single performance with a chorus of kids with DS. This doesn't obviously correspond to what the project actually is. As far as giving kids with DS the chance to get into a studio, it's Ok with me, of course. But if we are objective, it's obvious (again) that their musical skills are limited as a results of their own disease. If this accepted, then the real musical interest there is potentially arguable. And therefore, why would someone purchase a record like that? Curiosity? I hope it's only that. And yes, you could ask again, what with the Special Olympics? I've never seen or attended SO, but I know that some people take it seriously and understand it as an essential support for handicapped people, while others (certainly CRUEL) find in entertaining (to avoid "funny"). I'll check that Cd. Maybe I'm wrong and their musical skills are not as limited as I think. I'm feeling curious (and nothing more). Greetings, Efrén del Valle Ground Zero: "Plays Standards" Efrén del Valle wrote: > > And with regard to what Jim Flannery said, it's > obviously not the same to release a Fred Frith album > than one featuring kids with DS, unless the latter is > published with a clear purpose. Let's not be naďve. Really, when I said "HOW is it different", I wasn't looking for an adverb like OBVIOUSLY, I was looking for an explanation of *what that obvious difference IS*, because I think the answer might be errrr "interesting". Let's neither of us be "naďve". - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "Unexamined assumptions and axioms can be collected the way one might collect stamps." -- James Elkins np: Stooges, _Funhouse Sessions_, Disc Six nr: Philip K. Dick, _The Dark Haired Girl_ - - _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:55:37 -0800 (PST) From: Theo Klaase Subject: Melvins Anyone on this list like the Melvins? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:30:54 +1100 From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Die Like A Dog Quartet- "Aoyama Crows" Has anyone heard Die Like a Dog Quartet - "Aoyama Crows"? Any comments? Curiously it is currently "Record of the Week" at 78 Records in Perth, Australia. Regards, Adam - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:06:22 +0100 From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: A bit more cello >Mathieu Bélanger wrote: > >> >>I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but I guess it's a start... here are some more records with participation of FLH (to make the selection not too easy) Misha Mengelberg - Two Days In Chicago (hatOLOGY) Cobra - Live At The Knit (Knit) God Is My Co-Pilot - Mir Shlufn Nisht Jim O'Rourke - Eureka Gary Lucas - Bad Boys Of The Arctic and not to forget he´s doing TAXMAN on Downtown Does Beatles Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Testen Sie MSN Messenger für Ihren Online-Chat mit Freunden: http://messenger.msn.de - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:14:06 -0000 From: Subject: RE: A bit more cello Let's not forget FLH's participation in Anthony Coleman's great = Selfhater's project. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:35:43 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: Patton's bad taste?! In a message dated 03.11.02 05.42.23, efrendv@yahoo.es writes: >But if we are objective, it's obvious (again) that their >musical skills are limited as a results of their own disease. If this >accepted, then the real musical interest there is potentially arguable. >And therefore, why would someone purchase a record like that? Curiosity? I >hope it's only that. why would a person's musical ability be hampered because of a condition? and could we please stop calling down's syndrome a disease? diseases are communicable, transmittable - down's syndrome is neither. why couldn't someone purchase this record of which we speak for its pure musical value? while it might be different from the music that "normal" people would create, why is its musicality worth any less? >And yes, you could ask again, what with the Special Olympics? I've never >seen or attended SO, but I know that some people take it seriously and >understand it as an essential support for handicapped people, while others >(certainly CRUEL) find in entertaining (to avoid "funny"). i don't think too many people find the special olympics "funny". let's not avoid "funny", either, because i know i for one find the "real" olympics to be entertaining. why is it cruel to find something entertaining? i know, efren, that you mean entertaining as in ignorant people saying "gee it sure is 'entertaining' to watch 'retards' run around a track" - but i think that you underestimate the capacity of the disabled to take on challenges (and rise to said challenges) just as any person with no presupposed physical or mental limitations would do. has been sitting back listening but just can't do it anymore since ignorance breeds intolerance, k8. - --- [.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.] k a t e p e t e r s o n c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:29:07 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Patton's bad taste?! On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:35:43AM -0500, UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 03.11.02 05.42.23, efrendv@yahoo.es writes: > > >But if we are objective, it's obvious (again) that their > >musical skills are limited as a results of their own disease. If this > >accepted, then the real musical interest there is potentially arguable. > >And therefore, why would someone purchase a record like that? Curiosity? I > >hope it's only that. > > why would a person's musical ability be hampered because of a condition? and > could we please stop calling down's syndrome a disease? diseases are > communicable, transmittable - down's syndrome is neither. A telling (though not definitive) question would be whether someone hearing the record without knowing its source or context would find it interesting. - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems | | http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:00:08 -0800 From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: Melvins At 3:55 AM -0800 3/11/2002, Theo Klaase wrote: > Anyone on this list like the Melvins? I do! First time I saw 'em was a life-changing experience. - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:59:42 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Re: Melvins >Anyone on this list like the Melvins? OF COURSE. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:48:39 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Patton's bad taste?! Hi K8 and everyone, > > why would a person's musical ability be hampered > because of a condition? and > could we please stop calling down's syndrome a > disease? diseases are > communicable, transmittable - down's syndrome is > neither. People's abilities are definitively hampered because of a condition, Kate. As an example, I'm color blind and I love painting (mostly drawing) and it does jeopardize my practice in many ways- to the point that i felt very limited and put it aside for a while. Many people were interested in seeing my (colored) paintings, because they found them funny, mainly since the sky is not usually lilac, at least in my country! My cousin is deaf, and she loves singing. It's paradoxical too. And her singing is a real nightmare, but we'll never tell her to shut up, which doesn't mean that we are enjoying it. One thing is to let those people grow up in what they love and support them to the max but putting them at the same level as those who CAN develop their skills in a """"normal"""" way is quite another. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear and maybe sounding a bit narrow-minded but maybe some of you grasp what i'm trying to express (i hope so). I really think that these activities performed by handicapped people are looked at by some in a cruel way, that's what I mean. And Patton backed up by a chorus of SD kids appeared to me as something suspicious. > why couldn't someone purchase this record of which > we speak for its pure > musical value? while it might be different from the > music that "normal" > people would create, why is its musicality worth any > less? I never said it's musicality is not worth our attention, but a color-blinded person will never reflect reality on canvas in a virtuosistic way, to keep with my own example (touching SD kids is getting too dangerous). Rembrandt wasn't colour-blind, you know? > be entertaining. why is it cruel to find something > entertaining? i know, > efren, that you mean entertaining as in ignorant > people saying "gee it sure > is 'entertaining' to watch 'retards' run around a > track" - but i think that > you underestimate the capacity of the disabled to > take on challenges (and > rise to said challenges) just as any person with no > presupposed physical or > mental limitations would do. I don't underestimate their capacity to take on challenges but their ability to achieve some of them as a results OF THEIR OWN HANDICAPS is limited. > > has been sitting back listening but just can't do it > anymore since ignorance > breeds intolerance, > k8. Oh, thank you. Efrén del VAlle > --- > [.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.] > k a t e p e t e r s o n > c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r > > http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html > http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable) > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:52:05 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: Patton's bad taste?! - --part1_158.a4d8f19.29be56d5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/02 12:49:07 PM Central Standard Time, efrendv@yahoo.es writes: > I never said it's musicality is not worth our > attention, but a color-blinded person will never > reflect reality on canvas in a virtuosistic way, to > keep with my own example (touching SD kids is getting > too dangerous). Rembrandt wasn't colour-blind, you > know? i respectfully disagree. i think that colour blind persons can definitely reflect reality on canvas in a virtuosic way. just their (YOUR) own virtuosic way. i would love to see some of your paintings! and not for the humour value, either. seriously. love, k8. and efren, the ignorance comment wasn't directed at you, it was a general remark. - --part1_158.a4d8f19.29be56d5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/02 12:49:07 PM Central Standard Time, efrendv@yahoo.es writes:


I never said it's musicality is not worth our
attention, but a color-blinded person will never
reflect reality on canvas in a virtuosistic way, to
keep with my own example (touching SD kids is getting
too dangerous). Rembrandt wasn't colour-blind, you
know?


i respectfully disagree.  i think that colour blind persons can definitely reflect reality on canvas in a virtuosic way.  just their (YOUR) own virtuosic way.  i would love to see some of your paintings!  and not for the humour value, either.  seriously.

love,
  k8.

and efren, the ignorance comment wasn't directed at you, it was a general remark.





 - --part1_158.a4d8f19.29be56d5_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:02:44 +0100 From: Thierry Raguin Subject: Re: Melvins Theo Klaase wrote: > Anyone on this list like the Melvins? > YES!!! And I'm really looking forward to the Fantômas/Melvins Big Band live (release date: April, 2nd)!!! - - TR - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:06:06 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Patton's bad taste?! On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:52:05 EST UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > > i respectfully disagree. i think that colour blind persons can definitely > reflect reality on canvas in a virtuosic way. just their (YOUR) own > virtuosic way. i would love to see some of your paintings! and not for the Not all personal expression is worth our time. In fact very few people have something to say that is worth our time. I have nothing against personal expression and its value, but this list is about people who do more than just feeling good about themselves. For group therapy, there are other mailing lists. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:56:22 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Patton's bad taste?! As far as I'm concerned, I was just trying to clarify what I meant with regard to the S.D subject, which is quite tricky. That's why I've used personal examples so there's no room for misunderstandings. I was not intending anyone to care for my "problems". Fortunately, I don't need group therapies at this point. > Not all personal expression is worth our time. In > fact very few people have > something to say that is worth our time. > > I have nothing against personal expression and its > value, but this list > is about people who do more than just feeling good > about themselves. For > group therapy, there are other mailing lists. > > Patrice. > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:37:48 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Patton's bad taste?! On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 07:48:39PM +0100, Efr=E9n del Valle wrote: =20 > I never said it's musicality is not worth our > attention, but a color-blinded person will never > reflect reality on canvas in a virtuosistic way, to > keep with my own example (touching SD kids is getting > too dangerous). Rembrandt wasn't colour-blind, you > know? But reflecting reality on canvas is hardly necessary, or even particularly relevant. What reality, in this sense, did Mark Rothko's work reflect? - --=20 | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems | | http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:48:32 -0400 From: mwoodwor Subject: Ellery and the World Hey I just remembered now (not sure why) that someone about one month ago on the list said they had a live recording of Ellery Eskelin/William Parker. I'd be very interested in hearing this, if whoever has this would be at all interested in trading this for something (I've got a number of things you may be potentially interested in) get ahold of me off-list. Also, chiming in with the world music rec.'s - I HIGHLY rec. the 'Music of Indonesia' series on Smithsonian Folkways label - truly amazing stuff, Mike. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #814 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com