From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #819 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, March 14 2002 Volume 03 : Number 819 In this issue: - Re: More metal Re: Re: More Melvins / Thrones Re: Melvins Re: More Melvins / Thrones Frankenstein [NZC] slan (zorn, sharp, epstein) Re: Melvins Fred Records Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #818 ernest dawkins Re: Frankenstein [NZC] RE: ernest dawkins aesop quartet (was Re: ernest dawkins) Fwd: Re: Frankenstein [NZC] Re: More metal Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #818 re: more metal vision Re: aesop quartet (was Re: ernest dawkins) Re: Dawkins The Ornette Fight ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:28:39 +0100 From: francko.lamerikx@philips.com Subject: Re: More metal > Yes, this is great, although minute for minute I like their s/t EP (8 > minutes) a tad better than this (25 minutes + a brief guitar inst.). The > lyrics very occasionally lapse into some righteous/sociological > complaint-oriented territory that I don't really like, but in terms of this > not-exactly metal, not-exactly hardcore, not-exactly grindcore type of thing > (Relapse's specialty), yes, it "delivers the goods." Speaking of grindcore, what *real* grindcore would you recommend? I was at a Mortician show a couple of weeks ago, and the DJ played the most incredible grindcore; the only band name I remember though was Prostitute Dismemberment, which was a local band. And, yes, Converge is in the hardcore section in record stores, but they sound more metal to me (except for the vocals). [Meshuggah] > The weird thing is that I find them musically very interesting but don't > really totally get into them, in large part b/c of the vocals. There are many who hold this opinion. But the music is *so* amazing that even without a top-notch singer you can't pass it by. I'm looking forward to their new album "Turbulence" in the summer, even though I really think that they will not be able to reach the same level of intensity and complexity, if only because most of their fanbase would like them to return to the more ecclectic sounds of "Destroy Erase Improve". And I know that I am in a definite minority when I state that that album cannot stand in "Chaosphere"'s shadow in terms of sheer brilliance and heaviness. > I love that album, although I was physically repulsed by it at first. I > think Garm (or whatever he's calling himself now) is just one of the best > vocalists in rock/metal/whatever, based on his singing and/or screaming in > Arcturus, Ulver, and the first two Borknagar albums (love those Norewgian > band names). I'm listening to an MP3 from the new one right now (go to > www.theendrecords.com) and it does sound pretty great. I'm excited. Garm is amazing, and I think his main project Ulver is getting better all the time. They are now completely in dark ambient/Coil territory, and everything they released last year has been brilliant. Since the relation of Ulver's recent material to metal is nil, I fail to understand why The Wire doesn't review it Arcturus to me sounds like Edgar Allen Poe put to music, and that is not just because they actually put an E.A.Poe poem to music ("Alone"). They have this weird late-18th century decadent thing going on, the entire album reminds me mysterious goings-on at the orgy scene in "Eyes Wide Shut". The "Deception Genesis" track which is the most recent thing I've heard by them showed new, darker directions and I am hoping they have developed along these lines. The lyrics had become more abstract as well. With Garm's ever-decreasing interest in metal, I wonder where this project will go. Speaking of Merzbow, there are plans to release an Ulver remix album, and Merzbow has already agreed to collaborate. My favorite Melvins album has got to be "Ozma", by the way. Frankco - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:17:29 -0800 From: " A.VanValin" Subject: Re: Re: More Melvins / Thrones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john schuller" Subject: Re: Re: More Melvins / Thrones > ...Death to false METAL! > > John Schuller Cool. I knew I couldn't be the only Manowar fan on this list. van - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:23:35 -0800 From: " A.VanValin" Subject: Re: Melvins - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Zitt" Sent: Tuesday, 12 March, 2002 22:08 Subject: Re: Melvins > Which leads to some sort of musicological Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. I thought the musical version was Six Degrees of Ritchie Blackmore... van - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:17:06 -0600 From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones "Samuel Haase" wrote & sent again & again: >I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another >"metal" band. They are way beyond that. > > And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to >assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you >speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the >good metal and you are missing out imho. > -samuel Perhaps if you sent this e-mail to the list just one more time, your message would get through ;) - -- Herb Levy Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio mappings@antennaradio.com Mappings P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 USA - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:46:36 +0000 (WET) From: Ricardo Reis Subject: Frankenstein [NZC] Greets! I've been given the chance to watch the first two Frankenstein movies and in none of it the assistante to the Doctor is named Igor (it's Fritz on the first movie). does anyone knows from where the "Igor" name, related to the assistant of D.Frankenstein come? maybe I have been imaginating things... greets, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:25:50 +0000 From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: slan (zorn, sharp, epstein) can anyone point me to a place were I can find any info on this band? all I know is the line up and the tracks on "live at the knitting factory vol 3" _________________________________________________________________ O MSN Photos é o jeito mais fácil de compartilhar e imprimir as suas fotos: http://photos.msn.com.br/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:20:56 -0800 From: Tosh Subject: Re: Melvins >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joseph Zitt" >Sent: Tuesday, 12 March, 2002 22:08 >Subject: Re: Melvins > > > >> Which leads to some sort of musicological Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. > >I thought the musical version was Six Degrees of Ritchie Blackmore... > > >van >That would be great because I would love to add Joe Meek to this list! > >- - -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:48:22 +0100 From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Fred Records ReR (www.rermegacorp.com/news/fredRecords.shtml) made an announcement about the release schedule of the long awaited Fred records: Release Schedule: Early Spring 2002 Gravity Accidental (Music for Dance Volume 3) Summer 2002 Guitar Solos Step Across the Border Prints (collection of songs and fragments) Fall 2002 Middle of the Moment Keep the Dog Live (double CD) Speechless Spring 2003 Helter Skelter Skeleton Crew/Learn to Talk & Country of Blinds Cheap at Half the Price Fall 2003 Portraits d'Inconnus (versions of the installation from 1994) Massacre/Killing Time Propaganda (complete version) Accidental (Music for Dance Volume 3) should be out in february - anyone heard it? Andreas np: Greg Cohen - Way Low (DIW) _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:31:33 -0600 From: "PHILIP PLENCNER" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #818 Theo Klaase wrote: > > >Fantomas led me to the Melvins... After "Stoner > >Witch" I have proceeded to buy 7 other albums on my > >way to the entire collection.... > > > Same with me, but the greatest band on earth is and will remain > MAGMA!!!!!! > > - - TR > I'm going to have to wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Magma was= an astounding band! Do a lot of people on this list listen to Magma or other Zeuhl related bands? If not, might I recommend getting a hold of the Magma albums 'Udu Wudu' ,'1001 Degres Centigrades' and 'K=F6hntark=F6sz' As far as other related bands to check out obviously The Ruins and Happy Family. Also, the new Flying Luttenbachers album ('Infection and Decline= ') has a cover of 'De Futura' on it that is really amazing. Phil - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:46:54 +0000 From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: ernest dawkins i'm not up on all the dawkins, but i think the best example of his working band, new horizons ensemble, is their first release, a live disc on silkheart (i'm pretty sure) and the only one with the great reggie nicholson on drums. 'south side street songs' is pretty nice, too. his stuff is a little more laid back than alot of the aacm folks, strikes a sorta lee morgan groove alot of the time. he's only been in kahil el'zabar's longstanding trio ethnic heritage ensemble (chicago cats have never been much for naming bands) for a few years -- well, maybe 5 or 6, but a few for a decades-old band anyway. big shoes, with ed wilkerson and light henry huff having previously filled the chair. i don't think it's the best version of the band, but none of the ethnic heritage discs will disappoint. not sure the ethnic heritage is my fave kahil stuff, though. the instrumentation is interesting, but the ritual trio (see what i mean?) stuff is far stronger. i mean, how can you argue with malachi favors? and kahil's david murray duos are fantastic. so rick, you saw kahil, ernest, joe bowie *and* ari brown? that musta been hot. when they played the knit, joe wasn't there (although billy bang sat in for a cut or two). http://aacmchicago.org/members/Dawkins.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:47:10 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Frankenstein [NZC] >does anyone knows from where the "Igor" name, >related to the assistant of D.Frankenstein come The best place to ask is the Mobius Home Video Board, one of the four or five best films sites. Though it covers all types of movies (several recent discussions have focused on Godard and Rivette) there's a separate section devoted to horror/SF films that's frequented by numerous scholars, critics, collectors and just plain fans. http://www.mhvf.net/forum/scifihorror/index.shtml - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:51:04 -0500 From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: ernest dawkins I don't know how easy this will be to find, but there's a project called the Aesop Quartet consisting of Dawkins, Rollo Radford on bass (Sun Ra, Corky Seigel(?!)), Jeff Parker on guitar (Tortoise etc) and Hamid Drake on drums. Some Chicago poet does some spoken word on a track, and DJ Rob Swift plays turntable on a track as well. it's on the 8th Harmonic Breakdown label, and i thought it was pretty cool. sean - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:52:46 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: aesop quartet (was Re: ernest dawkins) In a message dated 03.14.02 11.01.53, seawes@allmusic.com writes: >I don't know how easy this will be to find, but there's a project called >the Aesop Quartet consisting of Dawkins, Rollo Radford on bass (Sun Ra, Corky >Seigel(?!)), Jeff Parker on guitar (Tortoise etc) and Hamid Drake on drums. >Some Chicago poet does some spoken word on a track, and DJ Rob Swift plays >turntable on a track as well. it's on the 8th Harmonic Breakdown label, >and i thought it was pretty cool. i don't know how easy this is to find, but i saw a copy come through the record store i work at - and it was bought the same day it came in. i did manage to sneak in listening to the first two tracks on the disc, and it was really interestingly weird. it is kind of like backup slam-music... love, k8. - --- [.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.] k a t e p e t e r s o n c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:58:52 EST From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Re: Frankenstein [NZC] - ------_Part_3c90d6cc-00af-4cd0-010203040506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - ------_Part_3c90d6cc-00af-4cd0-010203040506 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from web46.aolmail.aol.com (web46.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.7]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v83.45) with ESMTP id MAILINID123-0314100319; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:03:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:03:19 EST From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject:Re: Frankenstein [NZC] To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <112.e13e452.29c215b7@aol.com> The third installment in the Universal series, SON OF FRANKENSTEIN (1939) features Bela Lugosi as the broken-necked shepard, Ygor. He also reprises the role in GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN (1942). - ------_Part_3c90d6cc-00af-4cd0-010203040506-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:14:11 -0800 From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: More metal At 9:38 PM -0800 3/13/2002, William York wrote: > >The weird thing is that I find them musically very interesting but >don't really totally get into them, in large part b/c of the vocals. > I have the same problem with Fredrik Thordendal's (Meshuggah guitarist) solo release, great music, probably the closest to Naked City that I've heard in a metal band, but the vocals are pretty annoying. Are there any great, I mean really great, instrumental metal bands? I love Meshuggah, Morbid Angel, etc., but find I listen around the "cookie monster" vocals. I'm aware of stuff like Blind Idiot God, Don Caballero and the whole math-rock scene, and various other stuff, but what about true, ultra complex, ultra heavy metal? I'd love an instrumental remix of "chaosphere", for example. BTW, I saw Morbid Angel live last year in a tiny club, totally mind-blowing. Trey Azagathoth (sp?) is an absolute virtuoso. - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:19:56 +0100 From: Thierry Raguin Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #818 PHILIP PLENCNER wrote: > Theo Klaase wrote: > >>>Fantomas led me to the Melvins... After "Stoner >>>Witch" I have proceeded to buy 7 other albums on my >>>way to the entire collection.... >>> >>Same with me, but the greatest band on earth is and will remain >>MAGMA!!!!!! >> >>- - TR >> >I'm going to have to wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Magma was an >astounding band! > > Do a lot of people on this list listen to Magma or other Zeuhl related >bands? If not, might I recommend getting a hold of the Magma albums 'Udu >Wudu' ,'1001 Degres Centigrades' and 'Köhntarkösz' > No! Magma IS! Not WAS! They still exist and are quite active! Concerning albums to listen to, I would definitely suggest Mëkanïk Dëstruktïw Kömmandöh, and the whole Theusz Hamtaahk trilogy. For people interested in knowing more: http://www.seventhrecords.com/ and http://ddesassis.free.fr/magma/index2.htm - - TR - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:21:11 EST From: SonataPathetique@aol.com Subject: re: more metal It is funny that you said cookie monster. I have a 4 year old brother. I played Morbid Angel for him, and that was exactly what he called the vocals. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:26:37 +0000 From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: vision the vision fest schedule is up at visionfestival.org. (then, hollering) Joelle Leandre Hamid Drake duo! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:43:12 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: aesop quartet (was Re: ernest dawkins) On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 11:52:46AM -0500, UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > > it is kind of like backup slam-music... Uh, okay, what is "backup slam-music"? - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems | | http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:26:32 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Dawkins Rick (et. al): Dawkins is featured on several Ethnic heritage Ensemble discs on Delmark with Kahil El Zabar and Joe Bowie. His own band has two discs on Silkheart, one on Delamark and one on his own DAWK label. Get 'em all. Ken Waxman - --- Rick Lopez wrote: > on 02.03.13 11:35 AM, graham stephenson at > ktulu1776@hotmail.com wrote: > > Next: Mr. Ernest Dawkins. Just caught him for the > first time with Ethnic > Heritage (and I'd never heard Zabar on traps > before-- he was like Nature > With Sticks) and Dawkins and Ari Brown together were > a beautifully > contrasted pair of horns-- but anyway my question > is, what discs do I want > to hear that have the Dawkins fellow present? ===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________________________ Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:33:02 -0800 From: Chris Selvig Subject: The Ornette Fight Julian wrote: 'On these other lists it is quite common to have one person say "just my opinion" and another to say "no, well it's wrong" - they just don't know any better. I thought the Zorn list was above this, but I guess I was wrong...' While I feel a bit silly about defending Mr Heller, who seems more than capable of carrying the argument on his own, I'm not seeing the problem with Mr Heller's arguments against Ornette. I have since deleted the rest of the recent Ornette thread, but I don't remember Skip saying "You are wrong to like Ornette;" rather, that he does not like Ornette and he then gave his reasons for why he thinks that why. Jeez, he even keeps an Ornette record or two around and pulls them out to make sure he is not wrong. Chris Selvig - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #819 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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