From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #886 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, April 18 2002 Volume 03 : Number 886 In this issue: - Re: Sandinista Re: Sandinista Re: Sandinista Re: Sandinista Re: Sandinista New Defunkt live Re: Sandinista Wanted! WHITEHOUSE "Right To Kill" LP Re: Sandinista Re: Sandinista Re: Sandinista Music as 'visual art' Re: Music as 'visual art' Re: Music as 'visual art' Re: Music as 'visual art' Re: Music as 'visual art' Re: Music as 'visual art' RE: Music as 'visual art' Chicago Underground Duo Re: Music as 'visual art' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:45:04 -0400 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Sandinista >Was the Clash just really confused or were they >making some kind of statement, if so what? Well, that might depend on how generous you are or not with their work. I love it myself- I think of it as sweet excess. One of the stories behind it (which I tend to believe) is that they wanted out of their CBS contract and had three albums left to deliver so they thought that they could put out a triple album and be done with it. CBS didn't but it though and they were stuck with them until they broke up. Best, Jason N.P. Roberto J. Rodriquez "El Danzon de Moises"- great record - -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:03:25 -0700 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: Sandinista > One of the stories behind it (which I tend to believe) is that they wanted out > of their CBS contract and had three albums left to deliver so they thought > that they could put out a triple album and be done with it. CBS didn't but it > though and they were stuck with them until they broke up. > Other scuttlebutt -- they really resented Springsteen getting all the attention fr CBS and, as a reaction to the double-disc THE RIVER, said, "If he's so important to be putting out a double, we're more important, so we'll put out a triple." Personally, I think the Springsteen stuff has aged better (sacreligious tho it is to say). My qualm with the Clash -- other than advertising themselves as "the only band that matters" -- is that their ability to gel as a band was never on par with their songwriting. They never sounded unified as a band the way the Ramones, the Pistols, or most especially, the Jam (groups of the period all) all sounded. And, for my dough, their forays into reggae-based territory were just plain weak, whereas the Slits' journeys into that stuff were, for me, really fresh and atmospheric. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:32:08 EDT From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Sandinista - --part1_d8.1667223a.29ef19a8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well just in general, I've always though this was a beautiful sprawling mess of a record. Dale. In a message dated 4/17/2002 11:00:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, zsteiner@butler.edu writes: > A friend of mine told me that I had to listen to the Clash's Sandinista > as soon as possible. I picked it up on his recommendation and am > confounded by it. Was the Clash just really confused or were they > making some kind of statement, if so what? I enjoy moments of the > album, but there are other times I scratch my head wondering what they > were thinking. Can any one illuminate the album for me? > > Zach - --part1_d8.1667223a.29ef19a8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well just in general, I've always though this was a beautiful sprawling mess of a record.

Dale.

In a message dated 4/17/2002 11:00:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, zsteiner@butler.edu writes:


A friend of mine told me that I had to listen to the Clash's Sandinista
as soon as possible.  I picked it up on his recommendation and am
confounded by it.  Was the Clash just really confused or were they
making some kind of statement, if so what?  I enjoy moments of the
album, but there are other times I scratch my head wondering what they
were thinking.  Can any one illuminate the album for me?

Zach


 - --part1_d8.1667223a.29ef19a8_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:34:21 EDT From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Sandinista - --part1_b2.a1b7231.29ef1a2d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not full of shit at all!! This sounds to me like the VERY definition of what punk was meant to be! Dale. In a message dated 4/17/2002 11:29:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, crumpw@bellsouth.net writes: > an > incredibly limited English/Rock/Punk background from which to start, but > with a truckload of enthusiasm. > - --part1_b2.a1b7231.29ef1a2d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not full of shit at all!! This sounds to me like the VERY definition of what punk was meant to be!

Dale.

In a message dated 4/17/2002 11:29:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, crumpw@bellsouth.net writes:


an
incredibly limited English/Rock/Punk background from which to start, but
with a truckload of enthusiasm.


 - --part1_b2.a1b7231.29ef1a2d_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:41:26 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Sandinista On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 09:59:53AM -0500, Zachary Steiner wrote: > A friend of mine told me that I had to listen to the Clash's Sandinista > as soon as possible. I picked it up on his recommendation and am > confounded by it. Was the Clash just really confused or were they > making some kind of statement, if so what? I enjoy moments of the > album, but there are other times I scratch my head wondering what they > were thinking. Can any one illuminate the album for me? One important thing is that, while it's a two-CD set, it was a 3 LP set, with the dub experiments at the end off on a disc of their own. With the set priced lower than a conventional 3 LP set, it was like the last disc was a tossed-in freebee. While a lot of my friends played the first coupla discs to death when they got them, the third rarely hit the turntable. Oddly, when I think of this album, the first song that comes to mind is "Lose This Skin" which is pretty goofy and atypical. - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:02:35 +0200 From: "Remco Takken" Subject: New Defunkt live Dutch distributors 'Culture Records' sent out this text on new Defunkt live recordings, with the addition 'Netherlands release only.' - ----------------- For the occasion we will be releasing a new live album. In order to capture the vast talent and true DEFUNKT character, LIVE IN EUROPE will be a double CD, and feature the DEFUNKT Funk Ensemble on disc one, and the DEFUNKT Big Band on disc two.A substantial part of the double album was recorded in Germany, one track at the JAZZ CLUB in HANNOVER, and the whole second disc at the MOERS JAZZ FESTIVAL In DUISBURG, the remainder was recorded in HASSELT, Belgium. - ---------------- Regards, Remco Takken - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:37:09 -0500 From: "Sanchez" Subject: Re: Sandinista - ----- Original Message ----- From: "skip Heller" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:03 PM Subject: Re: Sandinista (snip)> My qualm with the Clash -- other than advertising themselves > as "the only band that matters" -- > - - and this phrase is probably the only ad copy that was written by Gary Lucas that anyone still remembers, all these years later. It still sticks in my mind, and I don't recall ever listening to the Clash. - -Sanchez np:Jojo Hiroshige/Yoshiko Sai: Crimson Voyage - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:30:35 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Wanted! WHITEHOUSE "Right To Kill" LP Wanted! WHITEHOUSE "Right To Kill" LP (Come Organisation, WDC881033, 1983) I'd prefer to buy, but will trade if something can be arranged. Please DON'T reply to this address. Please reply to: blackoperations_uk@hotmail.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:26:48 EDT From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: Sandinista In a message dated 4/17/02 2:00:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: << And, for my dough, their forays into reggae-based territory were just plain weak >> I disagree. The bass player, Paul Simmons(?) played reggae in a very authentic white style. Their punk reggae off the first album was a real influence on a lot of bands that followed. Personally, I lost interest when they attempted to be FUNK - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:27:35 EDT From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: Sandinista In a message dated 4/17/02 2:00:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: << whereas the Slits' journeys into that stuff were, for me, really fresh and atmospheric. >> The Slit's were cool, but for my money, I prefer the Raincoats. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:30:40 -0700 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: Sandinista on 4/17/02 7:27 PM, Nvinokur@aol.com at Nvinokur@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/17/02 2:00:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > velaires@earthlink.net writes: > > << whereas the Slits' journeys > into that stuff were, for me, really fresh and atmospheric. >> > The Slit's were cool, but for my money, I prefer the Raincoats. I never heard the Raincoats do any dub-derived stuff. Both are great, tho. sh - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:56:19 -0400 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Music as 'visual art' Hi all, Highly recommend the Whitney Bi-Ennial now going on in New York- I've seen it twice already and will probably need to go again. After seeing the Christian Marclay and Destroy All Monster exhibits, I started thinking of music (or its tools/components) being used in a visual medium as in galleries/musuems. Any other examples of that off-hand that anyone can think of? Best, Jason - -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:11:46 EDT From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: Music as 'visual art' Years ago, the Stranglers had a song called "Aural Structure" - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:13:01 -0400 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Music as 'visual art' Nvinokur@aol.com wrote: > Years ago, the Stranglers had a song called "Aural Structure" I guess I was really talking about the other way around- when music becomes a part of some kind of visual art (other than just music videos). Thanks, Jason - -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:46:43 -0400 From: David Beardsley Subject: Re: Music as 'visual art' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perfect Sound Forever" > Hi all, > > Highly recommend the Whitney Bi-Ennial now going on in New >York- I've seen it twice already and will probably need to go again. > > After seeing the Christian Marclay and Destroy All Monster exhibits, > I started thinking of music (or its tools/components) being used in a > visual medium as in galleries/musuems. Any other examples of that >off-hand that anyone can think of? I hope I'm not too far off the mark when I suggest the Dream House? * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:09:33 -0500 From: "William Crump" Subject: Re: Music as 'visual art' I just hooked back up with a buddy from my working-at-Ole-Miss days (we both had freeform radio shows on the college station that made the station manager grind his teeth). He's a painter who can work very quickly and impressionistically when the work calls for it, and he's set up gigs with free-improv musicians where he'll improvise on canvas to what they're playing, and they'll improvise on what he's painting/drawing. I haven't seen or heard any of these results, but the idea sounds intriguing. It's several steps up from Lester Bangs playing a typewriter solo at a J. Geils Band concert, anyway. William Crump >> After seeing the Christian Marclay and Destroy All Monster exhibits, >> I started thinking of music (or its tools/components) being used in a >> visual medium as in galleries/musuems. Any other examples of that >>off-hand that anyone can think of? > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: jason tors Subject: Re: Music as 'visual art' There was a painter in nyc that would create impressionist portraits of improvisers as they were playing, he used to set up at the KF and then for the vision festivals. One of his pieces was hanging at the KF for a while, on one of the walls going down stairs to the tap bar. The overall effect was great, somewhere between a modern pollock with drips and shiele quick rendering of figures, lots of implied motion and sound. Anyone know his name? The concept is great when you see the artist working along side the musicians performing, out of context, on a wall it is still effective but the connection is not there. There was another artist, I went to go see her opening in chelsea about 4-5 years ago, all of her pencil drawings were created during anthony braxton and company performances. She had a real life sax player come to the opening and play, he was a real squealer, no idea who he was due to the hat and dark glasses. But in the studio space the sound was incredible, he was hearding the artopening goers around the room while the artist was on hands and knees scribbling with different color pencils. It was a great experience, too bad I do not remember the name of the artist, her work was unimpressive and abstract, and not in a way that represented the sounds that were in the room. am I being too critical? I would love to find an example of music and visual art, even improvisation in both that is sucessful or close to it. j __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:19:32 -0400 From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Music as 'visual art' There was a painter in nyc that would create impressionist portraits of improvisers as they were playing, he used to set up at the KF and then for the vision festivals. One of his pieces was hanging at the KF for a while, on one of the walls going down stairs to the tap bar. The overall effect was great, somewhere between a modern pollock with drips and shiele quick rendering of figures, lots of implied motion and sound. >Anyone know his name? Jeff Schlanger. he also did several cover designs for William Parker. sean - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:53:43 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Chicago Underground Duo Hi, I just made my reservation but just in case: Did anyone hear the new Chicago Underground Duo release on Thrill Jockey? Any opinions? Thanks in advance. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:05:00 -0400 From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: Music as 'visual art' > After seeing the Christian Marclay and Destroy All Monster exhibits, I started thinking of music (or its tools/components) being used in a visual medium as in galleries/musuems. Any other examples of that off-hand that anyone can think of? I missed this, but I heard that it was pretty interesting: SIMON STARLING The gallery confirms its penchant for poetic Conceptualists (Jason Dodge, Liam Gillick, Carsten Holler) with the New York début of this young Scottish artist. Two birdhouses occupied by yellow songbirds-not starlings-are installed flush with the ceiling, perched atop tree branches of tropical hardwood. They're mirror-image, one-fifth scale models of a single unit in a housing complex designed by modernist architect Simon Schmiderer, based on the principles of twelve-tone music, developed by Arnold Schoenberg. Happily, the installation strikes an appealing balance between cerebral and winsome, with or without the elaborate back story. Through March 28. (Casey Kaplan, 416 W. 14th St. 645-7335.) Marclay was also showing some stuff sometime in March in a gallery (it was a group show, Paula Cooper, maybe? can't remember now) that was called "Stool." I remember it being pretty p(h)unny. One of the best things I've seen in a gallery all year though has been a video of Charles and Ray Eames' "Blacktop." So poetic and wonderful; footage shot of a man washing a blacktop in a schoolyard, set to the Goldberg Variations, but turned into journey through delicate and flowing camera movement, elaborate plays with light and bubbles and soul-stirringly complex montage that'll give 5 Nathaniel Dorskys a run for their money. I swear, I had tears running down my face at the end, which are usually reserved for Passions of Joan of Arcs, Raj Kapoors, Rabindranath Tagores and John Cassaveteses (don't tell me you're not just *wrecked* at the end of "Faces".) Nirav - -- NR- too much fucking schoolwork NP- the a/c, roaring. AIM: Icefactory37 "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #886 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com