From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: ribot/frith CD Date: 01 Aug 2000 08:56:53 +0200 Hello, Both artists put on this cd previously unreleased music. However it is = not a big secret that the Ribot tracks date from the same session that was = held for the Shrek cd that was released on Avant. However, I prefer the = material on the Sub Rosa disc: much longer and more time to develop the sound. Let me grap the opportunity to plug other releases of the subsonic = series of the subrosa label: they also have Laswell/Bullen (abstract dub), = Mazacane Connors/Sasha Frere Jones (minimal lyriscism), Justin Broadrick/Andy = Hawkins (dark guitar ambient), Caspar Brotzmann/Page Hamilton (sheer noise), = Lou Barlow/Rudy Trouv=E9 (lo fi experiments) All the releases are split releases, so no interference whatsoever (and = that is sometimes a shame). In the pipeline is a split release by Eugene Chadbourne/(undecided at = the moment) Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten Stefan Verstraeten -----Original Message----- I found a Ribot Frith CD yesterday that was released on Subsonic=20 records. They don't actually play on any tracks together, it's=20 somewhat of a split record. Anyway, the Ribot stuff is Shrek and the=20 Frith stuff is solo guitar. My question is this: is this otherwise=20 unreleased material or is this material on other releases? Thanks, Dan Hewins - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: new Otomo CD Date: 01 Aug 2000 09:08:44 +0200 -----Original Message----- Sent: dinsdag 1 augustus 2000 1:55 Which leads me to ask if anyone on the list likes the Angus MacLise 'The Invasion Of Thunderbolt Pagoda' CD (recorded '68-'72), or any of the Tony Conrad works like 'Early Minim ------------- The Early minimalism box regularly finds its way into my cd player. Especially the cd that was recorded in the knitting factory with (amongst others) Jim O'rourke on violin. John McEntire captured the sound on cd... great work. Someone on this list stated that after 5 minutes, one can hear how it will finish after 50 minutes. I agree completely, but the same general remark can be said for someone who is not into Derek Bailey, Merzbow or Lull (perhaps the last one is the best example since on these discs Mick Harris uses the same way of playing music). But if you listen to the full cd with great attention, you will see that Conrad is able to create a flow of sound wich brings you in some sort state of trance. As a great fan of japanese noise, I listen with this point of view to Tony Conrads' music... but it could be a wrong way of doing this, who knows. Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: New AUBE cd coming (no zorn content) Date: 01 Aug 2000 09:23:05 +0200 Hello Zornlisters, for you who dig japanese noise (hello Brad !!!), some great news: A new cd will sonn be released on Manifold records. The cd will have as a sound source stones (similar to the one AUBE released some months ago with someone whose name escapes me right now - but this time more recognisable). After this, AUBE will be starting to lay the final hands on the Live series: all the (now out of print) AUBE releases that came out on Manifold will be re-released with an extra live cd.... Sounds great to me!!!! Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. pathos" Subject: RE: new Otomo CD Date: 01 Aug 2000 13:12:46 GMT In contrast to Jack Smith, on the basis of the currently published recorded evidence I see little justification for the ongoing mythification of Mr. MacLise. His "drumming" doesn't compare in any musical aspect to that of feted jazz or middle eastern players, and his poetry is execrable. This seems very much the case of artists eulogizing about an old acquaintance lest he be forgotten. As for Mr. Conrad's "Minimalism", I'd say he's most faithful to the miniminalist spirit in his ongoing attempts to make a lot out of very little. The most interesting thing about this swollen drone box is the extended essay that accompanies the set; how fitting, from a University professor! >ask if anyone on the list likes the Angus MacLise 'The Invasion Of Thunderbolt Pagoda' CD (recorded '68-'72), or any of the Tony Conrad works like 'Early Minim"< ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Reich interview/Beefheart book excerpt Date: 01 Aug 2000 09:26:09 -0400 Greetings, In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever , you'll find, among other things: CAPTAIN BEEFHEART Biography excerpt- an in-depth look at Trout Mask Replica STEVE REICH INTERVIEW A look at his early, historical tape pieces We're always looking for good ideas and articles- please let us know if you'd like to contribute. See you online, Jason - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Diego Gruber" Subject: Lizards on Sony LA Date: 31 Jul 2000 17:01:14 -0500 Once again for people who have access to the Sony Channel Latin America, this Saturday's Sessions at West 54th will feature in its second part a performance by the Lounge Lizards. D - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linares Hugo Subject: RE: Lizards on Sony LA Date: 01 Aug 2000 12:06:13 -0300 Good news Diego! Thank you very much, Hugo Linares > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Diego Gruber [SMTP:dgruber@uio.satnet.net] > Enviado el: Lunes 31 de Julio de 2000 7:01 PM > Para: Zorn list > Asunto: Lizards on Sony LA > > Once again for people who have access to the Sony Channel Latin America, > this Saturday's Sessions at West 54th will feature in its second part a > performance by the Lounge Lizards. > > D > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Re: New AUBE cd coming (no zorn content) Date: 01 Aug 2000 11:02:27 CDT hey, i have a question about Aube. i've only heard the album where he uses the christian bible as his sound source. i didn't like it very much because the tracks i heard was just loops of sounds. he would have one sound looping. and then, suprise!, another sound overlapping that at the exact same loop rate. it was somewhat interesting but for the most part boring. still i have not closed my mind to Aube, but i was wondering if this album is a good example or does he have more variety? i'm just looking to see if he has albums that are more engaging. thanks, samuel Hello Zornlisters, for you who dig japanese noise (hello Brad !!!), some great news: A new cd will sonn be released on Manifold records. The cd will have as a sound source stones (similar to the one AUBE released some months ago with someone whose name escapes me right now - but this time more recognisable). After this, AUBE will be starting to lay the final hands on the Live series: all the (now out of print) AUBE releases that came out on Manifold will be re-released with an extra live cd.... Sounds great to me!!!! Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten - ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: andrew b piano trios Date: 01 Aug 2000 13:15:12 -0500 Neues Kabarett presents Andrew Barker - drums Louie Belogenis - sax Shoko Nagai - piano and The Andrew Bemkey Trio w/Tom Abbs (bass) and special guest drummer Saturday, August 12, 9 pm at The Brecht Forum 122 W. 27th St. 10th floor $6-10, as you wish for more info, call 212.567.0780 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: conrad/maclise/jack smith (was: Re: new Otomo CD) Date: 01 Aug 2000 15:29:57 EDT <> well, I can't say I'm a huge fan of either of the first two MacLise reissues (I have an advance of the second, which is coming out very soon), but I like them way more than the Jack Smith reissues, which, after my one listen to borrowed copies, I wasn't quite sure why they were reissued, apart from his status as a cult figure. anyway, you'll be thrilled to know that the plan for the MacLise reissue series on Siltbreeze/Quakebasket is to release 10 CDs over the next couple of years. also, my two cents on the new TOTE La Monte Young disc: I'll stay out of the controversy because it really doesn't interest me that much. the disc itself seems to me to be only of historical interest, but maybe it'll get the ball rolling and we'll get to see some better sound quality, better planned reissues, but from what I've heard, I kind of doubt it. <> when I saw Tony Conrad play about five years ago, he was still using the same violin he used on the Outside the Dream Syndicate record from 1972, in an effort to maintain his sound over the generations. I kind of admired that, even though the instrument looked like it was falling apart. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: conrad/maclise/jack smith (was: Re: new Otomo CD) Date: 01 Aug 2000 14:01:26 -0700 On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:29:57 EDT JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > when I saw Tony Conrad play about five years ago, he was still using the same > violin he used on the Outside the Dream Syndicate record from 1972, in an > effort to maintain his sound over the generations. I kind of admired that, > even though the instrument looked like it was falling apart. Because the quality of the violin sound is relevant to the whole process? But if it is for nostalgic reasons, I can understand. Patrice (puzzled by artists who base their whole carrier on a simple idea that they keep on repeating for decades). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Filmoworks II Date: 02 Aug 2000 01:51:24 +0200 Hi, I listen recently to Filmowrks II intensively. An incredible album! My fave Zorn at the moment! Two questions: a) What was the film the music is suppposed to illustate like? The info on the disc are not very extensive. b) Some similiar JZ records? (maybe Elegy would be the closest i know) Be well, Marcin Gokieli marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: new otomo cd Date: 01 Aug 2000 20:52:52 -0400 With all the recent discussion about Otomo's CD Vinyl Tranquilizer, I'm surprised no one has mentioned his recent entry into the sine wave massacres, Digital Tranquilizer Ver.1.0 (F.M.N). This is easily the most accomplished sine wave work I've heard from him (and I've enjoyed Filament 2 as well as ISO). This one is a CD single consisting of five tracks, recorded in Tokyo last July. The first track samples Sachiko M, but otherwise it is a solo effort. Otomo occasionally shows the heritage of sine wave music, with a couple of tracks sounding like they could be from an Ikeda album. DT-1, for example, could have come from the +/- sessions, with the very fast bpm. DT-2 compares favorably with the Time disk on Staalplaat's Time and Space collection, with a quick succession of vastly different textures (including a quiet signal, like morse code, appearing in a brief window). My favorite track is DT-5, where two completely different rhythms are layered, together with low drones and an exploration of space through channel placement (especially effective on headphones). There are a couple of other surprises on this short disk which have kept it in the CD player more than usual for a new release. I eagerly await Digital Tranquilizer Ver.2. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Beside the dream syndicate Date: 02 Aug 2000 03:54:47 -0000 On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:12:46 GMT "M. pathos" wrote: >In contrast to Jack Smith, on the basis of the currently published recorded >evidence I see little justification for the ongoing mythification of Mr. >MacLise. His "drumming" doesn't compare in any musical aspect to that of >feted jazz or middle eastern players, and his poetry is execrable. Sorry, but I fail to see what comparisons of technical musical ability have to do with creative influences in music. Certainly Angus MacLise stands as a very important persona in recent musical history, if only for his role in the formation of the Velvet Underground, bridging the gap between the 'avant-garde' of the Dream Syndicate and the wider rock audience of the Velvets. Of course, John Cale was also in on this, but interviews with Cale and the other members have emphasised the importance of MacLise in creating the group. This is a given! Whether one enjoys listening to the audible results of these musical formations is, once again, a matter of personal taste. I personally enjoy recordings like 'The Invasion Of Thunderbolt Pagoda', 'Early Minimalism', 'Outside the Dream Syndicate', especially for their psychomusickal potential. Repetition is the s _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: New AUBE cd coming (no zorn content) Date: 02 Aug 2000 08:45:35 +0200 Hi, If "Pages from the Book" (the cd you are referring to) sounds like a loop repeated on and on, and at a certain moment a new loop on that.... I would recommend not to spend any money on AUBE cds anymore. Give it a try however with a quality headphone, and you will find out that AUBE just doesn't do the "loop on loop"-thing. Further recommendations? Difficult to say because of two things: AUBE has a very huge output (take the output by Bill Laswell and multiply it by 20 and you get an idea what he published over the years) and -since I admire his work- I am not an objective person. Let me try: AUBE has two sides that practically never mix, a noise side and an ambient side. A good start for the noise side is the double cd compilation that came out on Iris Light, called Substructural Penetration. Good introductions for the ambient side are Flare (based on lamps), Embers (based on fire) or Bells (speaks for itself.... IMHO the best AUBE cd ever made). Best thing to do is go to the website http://www.halcyon.com/tntmusic/aube.htm and follow the link to the record labels. Most of them carry MP3 tracks where you can hear samples. However, please note that 95% of his output is now out of print (all items are on limited edition) Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten -----Original Message----- Sent: dinsdag 1 augustus 2000 18:02 hey, i have a question about Aube. i've only heard the album where he uses the christian bible as his sound source. i didn't like it very much because the tracks i heard was just loops of sounds. he would have one sound looping. and then, suprise!, another sound overlapping that at the exact same loop rate. it was somewhat interesting but for the most part boring. still i have not closed my mind to Aube, but i was wondering if this album is a good example or does he have more variety? i'm just looking to see if he has albums that are more engaging. thanks, samuel - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury Subject: Re: scelsi/ferneyhough: recs? Date: 02 Aug 2000 07:34:21 -0400 re Scelsi: all the orchestral material is great, starting with Quattro Pezzi (4 pieces on one note), and Anahit for violin and orch., and especially the music with chorus and orchestra. Ferneyhough's 3rd quartet is up there with Carter, Ives, Bartok, also terrific is Chute d'Icare (excuse any of the screwed-up spellings). Ferneyhough has a solo guitar piece in which, one movement at a time, individual strings are tuned off precise quarter-tones. while you're at it, check out some Lachenmann or Sciarrino ... At 05:15 AM 7/29/00 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:35:25 CDT >From: "Kristopher S. Handley" >Subject: scelsi/ferneyhough: recs? > >Regarding Giacinto Scelsi: recommendations and descriptions of other >recordings would be most welcome. > >Also, what of this Ferneyhough fellow? --steve check out the cool new stuff on http://www.stephendrury.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. pathos" Subject: the dreaming syndicate Date: 02 Aug 2000 14:06:35 GMT Whether Mr. MacLise was a "creative influence" or not is irrelevant. What did HE do that innumerable other patchouli-redolent drug casualties of the late '60s also couldn't have done? Nothing. >Sorry, but I fail to see what comparisons of technical musical ability have to do with creative influences in music. Certainly Angus MacLise stands as a very important persona in recent musical history, if only for his role in the formation of the Velvet Underground, bridging the gap between the 'avant-garde' of the Dream Syndicate and the wider rock audience of the Velvets. Of course, John Cale was also in on this, but interviews with Cale and the other members have emphasised the importance of MacLise in creating the group. This is a given!> - ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: It's gonna rain... Date: 02 Aug 2000 11:04:35 -0400 Speaking of people using the early Reich works nowadays (Come Out used in a Tortoise remix)... DJ Logic uses the "It's gonna rain" sample in his live performances pretty often. Dan Hewins NP: DJ Logic Project Logic 5.7.2000 Tipitina's, N.O., LA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: It's gonna rain... Date: 02 Aug 2000 16:44:52 GMT >From: Dan Hewins >Speaking of people using the early Reich works nowadays... DJ Spooky samples "Come Out" on his piece on the Valis I: Destruction of Syntax compilation ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Eskelin Query Date: 02 Aug 2000 10:05:33 -0700 Which of Eskelin's Black/Parkins CDs on hatOLOGY is the essential one? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: trumpet vs. cornet Date: 02 Aug 2000 13:19:43 -0400 Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between a trumpet and a cornet? Thanks, Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: Re: Eskelin Query Date: 02 Aug 2000 12:35:52 CDT >From: "s~Z" >Which of Eskelin's Black/Parkins CDs on hatOLOGY is the essential one? My personal favorite of the three (?) to date is easily KULAK 29 & 30, which is about an hour or so of Eskelin's (rather longish) compositions, recorded live. ONE GREAT DAY... and FIVE OTHER PIECES (+2) finish second and third. Somehow KULAK comes across as more fun, synthetic (or "organix" if you prefer). I don't always prefer Eskelin's saxophone sound, but KULAK seems to be the clearest document of a band really hitting new territory amidst a slew of influences (the issue of influences, "diet", and processing one's experiences and surroundings seems to be a serious creative concern for Eskelin, judging from the music AND the liners), though I wouldn't say it's reducible to "eclectic". KULAK and ONE GREAT... are pretty damn terrific. ----s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet Date: 02 Aug 2000 17:10:58 EDT In a message dated Wed, 2 Aug 2000 1:25:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dan Hewins writes: << Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between a trumpet and a cornet? >> The trumpet has a much more "brassy" sound than does the cornet. - =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: about merzbow.. Date: 02 Aug 2000 17:56:09 EDT perhaps this is the incorrect place to post this message to, but i'm curious if anyone knows where any of Masami Akita's writings are available? I guess email me privately, unless you think it's relevant. from, matt MP3.com - matt wellins (http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Re: about merzbow.. Date: 02 Aug 2000 17:08:55 CDT well, if anyone is gonna email this info private, please send it my way too. i didn't know akita had any published writings,other wise i would have asked the same as matt. thanks. samuel perhaps this is the incorrect place to post this message to, but i'm curious if anyone knows where any of Masami Akita's writings are available? I guess email me privately, unless you think it's relevant. from, matt MP3.com - matt wellins (http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins) - ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Kirchmer" Subject: (MZC) Concert in Seattle on 8/12 Date: 02 Aug 2000 15:15:50 -0700 To all you Zorn heads in the Northwest, I write to let y'all know about a cool upcomin' show in Seattle. So, without further adieu, here's the deal: (and btw, "MZC" stands for "Marginal Zorn Content") * On Saturday, August 12th, Peruvian Night Train Productions presents: THREE DAY STUBBLE {San Francisco nerd-rock and beyond...} VERY SPECIAL FORCES (Seattle - feat. Tim Young of Zony Mash) KATO HIDEKI [Japan via NYC - with special guest(s)!] * at the RAINBOW (NOT the Tractor as initially advertised, FYI...) 722 NE 45th St. (@ Interstate 5) - 634-1761 10pm showtime ~ $7 DOS tickets www.threedaystubble.com www.veryspecialforces.com http://www.xtr.com/extreme/kato.htm On a long-term mission to confront, confuse and ultimately comfort its battle-scarred audience, Three Day Stubble combines the most eccentric extremes of Houston (the band's birthplace) and San Francisco (its adopted home). Dressed in garish, clashing polyester plaids, the group's self-actualization campaign has sometimes been hindered by the false impression that its music is a joke. In the long run, Stubble's aggressive lack of ego is more radically unsettling than all the razor blades and spiked dog collars in punkdom. -- THE TROUSER PRESS GUIDE "Comparisons and smiles abound when Very Special Forces take to the stage. Their humorous, anything goes, rock-opera-styled pop is wide-ranging, ala Ween, and often outrageously re-arranged & vocalized, a la Mr. Bungle. You'll quickly realize, though, that describing these livewires along other band's lines just doesn't cut it." - THE STRANGER (SEATTLE) Any Questions? contact James at 206-322-1783 or jamesk@onebox.com Rainbow website: www.gogoweb.com/rainbow - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ian r watson" Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet Date: 03 Aug 2000 00:40:49 +0100 As someone who plays the trumpet I should know, ..but how to describe it ....mmm ? ..a cornet is maybe halfway between trumpet and flugelhorn...the flug being the most mellow sounding of the three...........it's still difficult to make out the difference on many discs......some trumpet players (Chet Baker) have a soft tone in between these instruments......Kenny Wheeler plays all three.......I can never tell when he's playing cornet although his trumpet and flug are fairly distinct. Don Cherry plays cornet on a few of those 60's albums but without being told that I'm not sure I could distinguish between the pocket trumpet....confused ?..........people like Rob Mazurek play cornet nowadays and have that mellow trumpet sound........it all gets a bit blurred or maybe my ears are getting bad..........hope this helps.........Ian ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 02 August 2000 18:19 > Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between > a trumpet and a cornet? > > Thanks, > Dan Hewins > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zach Griffin Subject: Re: about Merzbow Date: 02 Aug 2000 19:56:56 -0400 I too would be interested in the Masami Akita writings. So if it isn't any trouble, please send this info my way as well. I get the zornlist in digest form. So if it has already been said to the whole list and I haven't recieved the digest volume yet. Then I apologize. Zach Griffin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: ground zero last concert Date: 02 Aug 2000 21:10:19 -0400 In the course of looking up some info on Otomo, I ran across a translation of the liner notes from the Last Concert CD at http://www.japanimprov.com/yotomo/groundzero/lastnotes-e.html. Definitely worth reading. The whole Japanese Free Improvisers site has moved to http://www.japanimprov.com, if you want to update your bookmarks/links pages. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Alas poor Angus we hardly knew ye... Date: 03 Aug 2000 01:41:01 -0000 For anyone who is actually interested in what might have set Angus MacLise apart from all the patchouli indolent, drug addled hippies of the era, please check out: http://www.lamontyoung.com/AMO.HTM "Young people wonder how the adult world can be so boring. The secret is that it is not boring to adults because they have learnt to enjoy simple things like covert malice at one another's expense. That is why they talk so much about the value of human understanding and sympathy. It has a certain rarity value in their world." Celi _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Angus... Date: 03 Aug 2000 01:48:29 -0000 Sorry, the link should be: http://www.lamontyoung.com/AMOO.HTM ...and the quote is from Celia Green, don't know why but my emails seem to show up missing the last 7 characters, which means that you never. _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Not again! Date: 03 Aug 2000 01:57:26 -0000 http://www.lamonteyoung.com/AM00.HTM Sorry! Too much patchouli smoke and drug addling during my mispent youth _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: otomo plays yamashita / k. abe : rec's requested Date: 03 Aug 2000 01:45:59 CDT Of the many available recordings---pref. on CD---of Kaoru (Kaol) Abe, I was wondering if anyone could recommend and/or describe them to me. I asked this question once before, but I believe it was quite some time ago (I had no luck dredging the archives), and before the fairly recent release of much of the PSF stuff. (Is this reissue material from the DIW 10-vol. initial posthumous releases? Or is all the PSF stuff additional to the DIW?) I was particularly drawn to the slightly pricey ABE, KAOL, Partitas Unfinished [VIVID SOUND (JAPAN)],2CD, "New reissue of Kaol (or Kaoru) Abe's Well Tempered Alto-Saxophone Suite. It was recorded in March of 1973, but Abe considered it unfinished and it was not issued until 11 years after his death, in 1989." [from forcedexposure.com] Sorry, too, if I simply missed discussion of this: YOSHIHIDE, OTOMO, Plays The Music of Takeo Yamashita [P-VINE RECORDS] (JAPAN) "Yamashita was a composer who among other things wrote music for various Japanese TV shows..." I noticed it's Otomo's "New Jazz Quintet". What does it sound like? Hrvatski wavered a little. Is it all power, all the time? Thanks in advance, as always, -----s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Eskelin Query Date: 03 Aug 2000 09:59:39 CEST >My personal favorite of the three (?) to date is easily KULAK 29 & 30, >which >is about an hour or so of Eskelin's (rather longish) compositions, recorded >live. ONE GREAT DAY... and FIVE OTHER PIECES (+2) finish second and third. thereīs a fourth one 'Ramifications' which was released recently. The trio is added by Joe Daley on tuba and Erik Friedlander on cello. Unfortunately, I havenīt heard it so far. Andreas ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Caine Review Date: 03 Aug 2000 12:21:55 +0200 (MET DST) My review of the Uri Caine Goldberg project has just been put up on the Motion website. Have a look, =B4cuz I sure do love this record and want people to know about it. http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/639.html All the best, Stephen --------- Richard Pettersson Department of History of Science and Ideas Ume=E5 University S-901 87 Ume=E5, Sweden Phone: +46 90 786 99 38 Telfax: 046 90 14 33 74 E-mail: Richard.Pettersson@histstud.umu.se - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: otomo plays yamashita / k. abe : rec's requested Date: 03 Aug 2000 10:18:25 -0400 >wondering if anyone could recommend and/or describe them to me. Other Music has RealAudio samples of the Abe available, along with a lot of other interesting material. Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet Date: 03 Aug 2000 10:53:20 -0400 Can someone describe what a "brassy" sound is? ><< Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between >a trumpet and a cornet? >> > >The trumpet has a much more "brassy" sound than does the cornet. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet Date: 03 Aug 2000 10:52:29 -0400 This is the kind of confusion I experience... I once thought that the cornet was a harsher sound which would put the trumpet between the cornet and the flugelhorn (which is easy to hear as different than the other two). Except that on a scale of 1 to 10 where flugel is 1 and cornet is 10, I'd place the trumpet at 9.5. I can't really tell the difference. I thought I could a little when I first heard the Herbie Hancock album "Empyrean Isles" where Freddie Hubbard plays the cornet but I don't know... Is the fact that there are two different instruments a historical issue or something else? Dan Hewins At 12:40 AM +0100 8/3/00, ian r watson wrote: >sound........it all gets a bit blurred or maybe my ears are getting >bad..........hope this helps.........Ian >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dan Hewins >To: Zorn List >Sent: 02 August 2000 18:19 >Subject: trumpet vs. cornet > > >> Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between > > a trumpet and a cornet? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet Date: 03 Aug 2000 10:16:41 -0400 On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 10:53:20AM -0400, Dan Hewins wrote: > Can someone describe what a "brassy" sound is? > > ><< Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between > >a trumpet and a cornet? >> > > > >The trumpet has a much more "brassy" sound than does the cornet. I suspect that "brassy" means sounding more like a trumpet than like a cornet. :-) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet Date: 03 Aug 2000 08:27:36 -0700 http://library.thinkquest.org/10693/difference.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet Date: 03 Aug 2000 13:29:31 EDT In a message dated 8/3/00 10:56:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dan@synsolutions.com writes: << Can someone describe what a "brassy" sound is? >> Hmmm...that's a good question. You play an instrument for years (trombone for me) and never expect to get hit with that one... I suspect one could go into the physics of the sound differences- the harmonics, overtones, etc., something I'm not very well versed in. I guess the best description is the attribute of a "bell-like" sound to its sound character- if that makes any sense. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: "experimental cuba" Date: 03 Aug 2000 18:53:53 -0400 Hello list, after listening to Buena Vista Social Club, I came to the conclusion that cuban music was something worth studying.... so, I decided to give the "experimental side" of it a try. I purchased Marc Ribot y los CUbanos Postizos Last album and liked it a lot, so I bought their first album and Bill Laswell's Imaginary Cuba. They're relly great and I was wondering what other "experimental" (or simply wonderful/great) cuban music CDs you'd recommend. Thanks in advance Neil ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: 2L Subject: Re: "experimental cuba" Date: 04 Aug 2000 01:10:25 +0200 > and Bill Laswell's Imaginary Cuba. I'm wondering how this one sounds like? Are the cuban roots still there or are the ambient and/or dub sounds the biggest part of it? In other words, is the Laswell translation far away from the original tunes or not? Same question with the translations of Irish Music Laswell recently put out if somebody has an answer to submit. TIA Laurent SDZ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reuben Radding Subject: Re: "experimental cuba" Date: 03 Aug 2000 16:12:02 -0700 Try Eddie Palmieri & Friends - Live At The University of Puerto Rico. Good salsa. Very out at times, IMHO. -RR - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Douglas Tapia Subject: Re: "experimental cuba" Date: 03 Aug 2000 17:48:25 -0600 >> and Bill Laswell's Imaginary Cuba. > >I'm wondering how this one sounds like? Are the cuban roots still there or >are the >ambient and/or dub sounds the biggest part of it? In other words, is the >Laswell >translation far away from the original tunes or not? These are really nice mixes of a variety of great "street recordings." Laswell layers different recordings and applies his regular "atmosphere" (big reverbs, delays, environmental sounds, etc.) There are some really nice bi-tonalitys and polyrythmic things that happen as a result of Laswell's combination of carefully selected bits of material. Also, there is less dub style playing on this one (though I would describe the production style as "progressive dub"--sorry about that) All in all, I feel that "Imaginary Cuba" approaches Cuban music with the respect and understanding that this music deserves. FWIW, "Imaginary Cuba" along with "Hallucination Engine" are probably my favorite Laswell CDs for pure listening enjoyment, though "Hallucination Engine" is perhaps more of a Scopoletus (sp?) CD than anything else. -Doug n.p. Coltrane "Crecent" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: "experimental cuba" Date: 04 Aug 2000 00:08:43 GMT >From: 2L >>and Bill Laswell's Imaginary Cuba. > >I'm wondering how this one sounds like? Are the cuban roots still there or >are the >ambient and/or dub sounds the biggest part of it? Laswell has a number Cuban project called Havana Mood, which has Cuban musicians playing straight up. He and Jean Touitou did a remix of that session called Rhum n' Bass. Both are packaged together released by APC, and I think Bruce Gallanter has copies at Downtown Music. Imaginary Cuba is better than Rhum n' Bass, though Havana Mood is a good one to have. >Same question with the >translations of Irish Music Laswell recently put out if somebody has an >answer to >submit. I'd give this one a miss. The remix ends up sounding pretty "New Agey." I've only played my copy once and can't bring myself to try it again. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: "experimental cuba" Date: 03 Aug 2000 20:27:52 EDT In a message dated Thu, 3 Aug 2000 6:53:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Neil H. Enet" writes: << I was wondering what other "experimental" (or simply wonderful/great) cuban music CDs you'd recommend. Thanks in advance >> 1999's Tony Martinez and The Cuban Power's _Mafarefun_ is absolutely phenomenal- one of the best Latin jazz CDs ever, IMO. Tito Puente/Eddie Palmieri's just-released _Masterpiece/Obra Maestra_ is a great fusion of Latin dance and jazz with a wall of horns. Irakere is hit and miss, but the _Best of_ on Columbia and _Live at Ronnie Scott's_ are both great outings. Puente's _Mambo Birdland_ is another worth checking out. Chucho Valdes and Paquito Rivera (both ex-Irakere) both have several albums worth checking out. Cubanismo! have 3 CDs of pre-Castro-styled music that are all wonderful. NG LaBanda (an offshoot of Irakere) have 3 CDs that are great. Machete Ensemble...did I mention them...? I'll think of more in the next few hours...;-) - =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: ground zero last concert Date: 04 Aug 2000 00:32:37 GMT >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" >In the course of looking up some info on Otomo, I ran across a translation >of the liner notes from the Last Concert CD at >http://www.japanimprov.com/yotomo/groundzero/lastnotes-e.html. Definitely >worth reading. I agree. I particularly concur with Sasaki's interpretation of the piece as follows (even though he backs off of it in the next paragraph, unfortunately): "Surely, though, that was what Otomo intended. This was the performance in which he literally let us hear the process of Ground Zero's "dissolving." This album records the transformation of the aggregate called Ground Zero from an orchestra to an oscillator. Towards the end of the gig, the sine waves surge like the waves of the sea, washing over the entire performance. Finally, only sound remains." ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: cornet v. trumpet: a layman's technical explanation Date: 03 Aug 2000 18:44:10 -0700 Generally, from my remedial understanding: Trumpet. The metal tubing is the same diameter from the mouthpiece until it starts to flare into the bell. A combination of the tubing diameter and the number of turns in the tubing combine to give it more high overtones hence a brighter, brassier sound. Cornet. The diameter of the tubing increases as you trace it from the mouthpiece toward the bell, softening some of the higher overtones you get with a trumpet. On the other hand, the cornet typically has more twists in the tubing, which gives it a little punchier sound -- and perhaps a less full midrange of overtones -- than the trumpet. (The pocket trumpet has a hell of a lot of curves -- but the same length of tubing as a trumpet. Comparing the two, you can here what all those curves do to the sound -- basically, make it less rich, less full. Pocket trumpets are typically more difficult to play in tune than trumpets.) Flugelhorn. The diameter of the tubing increases, even more dramatically, than the cornet, hence the "mellow" sound (softening of higher overtones). Additionally, there are fewer curves and they are at broader angles, so it has a very rich palate of midrange overtones. Generally less attractive in sound in the upper register than the above horns. Satchmo note: Louis Armstrong writes in one of his biographies, if memory serves, as though the cornet was an inferior instrument and speaks of graduating to the trumpet. The trumpet has the broadest range of sounds most easily accessible.... Martin np. GOP convention as heard from several dozen TV's in press pavilion #1 at the First Union Center, Philadelphia. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: re: otomo plays yamashita / k. abe : rec's requested Date: 03 Aug 2000 22:27:33 EDT i've heard Otomo Plays Yamashita, I'm not sure what to say about it. It's a particularly long album, very diverse, jazz, reggae, pop, and of course, much stranger things. I have to admit that I don't listen to it much. I'm not exactly sure why, though. I'd much sooner reccomend Otomo's Cathode on Tzadik, which is much easier to locate, among other things. from, matt MP3.com - matt wellins (http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins) MP3.com - experiment in real time (http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins2) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re:experimental Cuba Date: 04 Aug 2000 03:06:37 -0000 I was wondering what other "experimental" (or simply >wonderful/great) cuban music CDs you'd recommend. Try 'Biyumba Palo Congo' & 'Live at the Village Vanguard' from the inspired pianist Chucho Valdes, or 'Yemaya', a recent release from Irakere, his salsa/jazz ban _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MartinS Subject: Killer Joey Date: 04 Aug 2000 10:39:47 +0200 Last night I saw Joeys new band Killer Joey in Frankfurt/Germany. As you might now this is Joey with Steve Cardenas on guitar, Tony Scherr on bass and Brad Shepik replacing Adam Levy on guitar. The lineup suggests that this might be a completely new approach. But it's basically a followup band from his latest recodings. It is almost the same, very groove-orientated, solo after solo stuff. But not bad (I could not imagine ever listening to Joey and not enjoying it). Steve really rocked on some pieces, playing really loud. I specially liked Brads playing, which was not so loud and very interesting. I think Joey prefers playing without using a PA system. This is great for small club gigs because the sound is very intimate. Yesterdays concert was a open-air gig with about more than 200 people listening. Playing without a sound system resulted in a overall bad balanced sound specially from the farther seats. So I found myself standing right in front of the stage trying to catch the stage sound (which was cool). Joey sold CDs of this band from the bandstand. The Killer Joey CD is basically like a home made recording, sound quality is not really great. But I like the idea of recording such a CD and selling it directly to the fans at gigs. The people pulled the CDs out of Joeys hands, he must have sold quite a few of them. This is really cool because the money goes directly to the band and fans don't have to wait almost for years until some silly recording company sets up its release strategy and puts out a CD. BTW I heard that most of the DIW/Avant stuff and the whole Tzadik catalog is no longer available in germany due to the crash of the german distribution company 99records (no 'Live in Sevilla' - bah). So where is the good news? --martin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: "experimental cuba" Date: 04 Aug 2000 12:24:57 +0200 For a real experimental cuban music/improv mix, I would recommend "Fidel" by= =20 Koch/Schutz/Studer & Musicos Cubanos on Intakt records. Hans Koch: Clarinets, Saxophones, Electronics, Samples, Tapes, Sequencer Martin Sch=FCtz: Electric 5string Cello, Acoustic Cello, Electronics,= Samples Fredy Studer: Drums, Percussion + Musicos Cubanos (voc, tres, perc, choir...) Much more experimental than Ribot's cuban albums. I also like a lot Steve Coleman's "The Sign and the Seal" (BMG/RCA Victor) for its mix=20 between Coleman's typical approach to jazz, yoruba musical traditions (the cuban group=20 AfroCuba de Matanzas) and rap (Kokayi on vocals). Hope it helps. Pascal Cortes (First post on the list) NP: Die Like a Dog Quartet "From Valley to Valley" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Playboy discovers Ribot... Date: 04 Aug 2000 06:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Playboy has given Marc Ribot a "tip of the hat" for his latest release... Just a small article... if anyone is interested. -That which is Theo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Benjamin Pequet Subject: RE: about merzbow.. Date: 04 Aug 2000 13:58:12 -0400 >perhaps this is the incorrect place to post this message to, but i'm curious >if anyone knows where any of Masami Akita's writings are available? >I guess email me privately, unless you think it's relevant. I would like to extend the question even if this is the incorrect place. His domains of predilection are pop culture and sexual perversions, he has published for magazines and books. He produced videos as well. I have heard of installations and cd-roms too. A short list of his publications can be found at http://www.xtr.com/extreme/merzbow.htm but doesn't seem to have ever been updated. I would be very surprised to hear than anything has been translated? The two most comprehensive resources on the internet re. merzbow are, besides mailing-lists dedicated to merzbow of course, http://noiseweb.com/merzbow/ (interviews, very sensible reviews of the material) and http://www.hut.fi/~omertalo/Merzbow.html (discography and contacts). PS sorry if this is old news, but digest version of the list plus messages bouncing back and forth with majordomo, ... it has probably been mentioned that Masami Akita makes the cover of the Wire of this month and has a long interview (mostly taken from the merzbook though). -- >> powered by http://skim.com << ____________________________________________ skim.com - where your shirt is your address. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Xu Feng Date: 04 Aug 2000 11:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Does anyone know what this album is about? CDNOW has it for release in September, but I haven't heard anything about it. New Material perhaps? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Xu Feng Date: 04 Aug 2000 11:26:13 -0700 On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Theo Klaase wrote: > > Does anyone know what this album is about? CDNOW > has it for release in September, but I haven't heard > anything about it. New Material perhaps? According to Bruce Gallanter/DMG (February 1999): "[...] A new Tzadik series for new versions of his game pieces like "Xu Feng" and "Curling" will also be in the works." The only thing on record concerning this game piece is: 131 - (Y)EARBOOK volume 2: compilation of improvisation This record features improvisations by Chris Jonas/Daniel Sarid, John Zorn Ensemble, Ben Goldberg, The Molecules, Steve Adams, Morphic Resonance, Miguel Frasconi, Pierre Dorge, Robert Marsanyi, Mike Hovancsek, Krystyna Bodrowski, Keith Rowe, Anything Goes Orchestra. 2/ Xu Feng (excerpt) (Zorn) 5:50 Recorded live at the Great American Music Hall, San Francisco on September 9, 1991 Produced by Gino Robair John Zorn: conductor; Myles Boisen: guitar; Gannon Hall: drums; Bob Ostertag: sampler; David Slusser: electronics; Trey Spruance: guitar; William Winant: percussion. 1992 - Rastascan Records (USA), BRD009 (CD) Note: "The favorite actress of legendary director King Hu, Xu Feng was one of the biggest stars in the Chinese film industry and more recently has become a powerful producer. Game pieces after COBRA tended to be more tangible than abstract, more dramatic, and this piece, written directly after COBRA, focuses in on strategic elements resulting in a fast paced competitive game not unlike the kung fu films Xu Feng starred in. The intro- duction of sound MODIFIERS and the special instrumentation (although it has been done with six drummers) helps give the piece a distinctive identity." (John Zorn) Since I doubt that John gives concerts of excerpts from his game piece, there are at least two versions of XU FENG, this one and the one from the Zorn month at the KF in 1993. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: big gundown reissue Date: 04 Aug 2000 15:23:04 EDT I got the chance to check out an advance copy of Zorn's remastered and expanded THE BIG GUNDOWN. The artwork and booklet set a new standard for the packaging of a Tzadik release. The cover artwork is very much in the style of a European film soundtrack and the booklet is packed with film stills, poster art and information on Morricone and Zorn. Definitely something to look forward to! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: RE: Xu Feng Date: 04 Aug 2000 21:36:07 +0200 Hi Philozorners, > Does anyone know what this album is about? CDNOW > has it for release in September, but I haven't heard > anything about it. New Material perhaps? To my knowledge it was recorded in May in San Francisco, the lineup is: Chris BROWN: keyboards Dave LOMBARDO: drums Fred FRITH: guitar David SLUSSER: keyboards Trey SPRUANCE: guitar William WINANT: percussion Xu Feng is a game-piece "composed" in 1985 (!). You can find Zorn's comment on this piece at http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/zornfest/ . It's inspired by kung-fu movies directed by King Hu with actress Xu Feng. I have a live audience recording of it from 1999, and it's great! Very loud, wild, lots of fast drums (Lombardo, what do you expect!), weird sounds on guitars, sampling... I already know this will be one of my favourite Zorn records. I can hardly wait!!! __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl NP: MMW "Tonic" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: RE: Xu Feng Date: 04 Aug 2000 21:42:19 +0200 > Since I doubt that John gives concerts of excerpts from his > game piece, there > are at least two versions of XU FENG, this one and the one > from the Zorn month at the KF in 1993. I know about two more: Zorn performed it in SF on September 16th last year (http://www.emd.pl/emd/pl4/artists/z/zorn_john/live/19980916.htm), and in New England Conservatory, Boston, on February 5th 1996 (htt p://www.newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/html/1996q1/0046.html). The first one exists in two recorded versions, one is from the soundboard (Zorn doesn't want to give it away), the other from the audience, but still enjoyable (I have it :-). Great piece! A must-have for Philozorners!!! __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Masada and MMW management Date: 04 Aug 2000 18:36:38 -0400 Hello All, I need to contact somebody from Masada and MMW management people. Do you know any e-mails of them? Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: next Unheard Music Series releases Date: 04 Aug 2000 21:29:19 EDT from www.atavistic.com, the next wave of reissues on John Corbett's new=20 label, all due out Sept. 5: Han Bennink, *Nerve Beats* (UMS/ALP206CD) Recorded for Germany's Radio Breme= n=20 in 1973, in the period when Bennink was storming Europe in a trio with Peter= =20 Br=F6tzmann and Fred van Hove, Nerve Beats is a great recording never before= =20 issued on CD; it comes from a time when Bennink deployed a gigantic setup:=20 metal percussion, tons of extra drums, tablas, an early drum-machine, as wel= l=20 as non-percussive instruments like trombone, clarinet & various=20 impossible-to-describe objects. A three-track live concert recorded in its=20 entirety at the acoustically ideal Rathaus, Nerve Beats is also the only liv= e=20 document available of Han performing solo at this time, as his early FMP and= =20 ICP records are now out of print (and decidedly sought-after).=20 Leo Cuypers, *Heavy Days Are Here Again Reissue* (UMS/ALP207CD) Leo Cuypers,= =20 pianist and composer from southern Holland, is one of the great unsung heroe= s=20 of Dutch creative music - as a bandleader, solo pianist and member of the=20 first incarnation of the Willem Breuker Kollektief. Heavy Days Are Here Agai= n=20 was a project that brought Bennink and Breuker (who made the first ICP=20 record, New Acoustic Swing Duo, together as a twosome back in the '60s) back= =20 together after a somewhat fractious split, and reunited Cuypers with Breuker= =20 as well. The band toured, made a national TV appearance, then recorded this=20 absolutely killing studio LP in 1981 for reedist Breuker's label, BVHAAST=20 Records.=20 Nachtluft, *Belle-View I-IV Reissue* (UMS/ALP208CD) Nachtluft was a=20 Zurich-based trio, consisting of G=FCnter M=FCller on electronic percussion,= =20 Jacques Widmer on acoustic percussion, and Andres Bosshard on a unique=20 cassette machine setup (and speakers distributed around the room) and all=20 three musicians on metal! Self-described as "project for two drummers and=20 live-electronics in an all-over installation," they formed in '86.=20 Tracked in 1986 during a live concert, and hardly known in its day,=20 Belle-View is so ass-kicking that John Corbett has selected it as the initia= l=20 release in a UMS miniseries: "Unheard Greats of Swiss Electroacoustic=20 Improvised Music". Other upcoming releases in this miniseries include two=20 lost Voice Crack LPs, and a totally unknown record by the obscure, wonderful= =20 Planet Oeuf, M=FCller's first band, which included British improvisors Phil=20 Wachsmann and Phil Durrant. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: Sonic Youth recommendations? Date: 05 Aug 2000 13:47:53 -0700 I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some recommendations. Also, since I'll start at the used record stores, I'd be glad to know which albums I needn't bother with. Merci. Martin np. Louis Armstrong w/ Earl Hines "1928" (Smithsonian records) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: Sonic Youth recommendations? Date: 05 Aug 2000 14:26:15 -0700 Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com wrote: > I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some > recommendations. I prefer early-to-middle SY, though I haven't bought the last two Geffen albums. In order of preference: EVOL Daydream Nation Sister Goo ...after that point, it gets to the albums I haven't listened to in years, so why bother rating them. William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: freddie redd's "ole" Date: 06 Aug 2000 14:56:41 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFFFB6.87F6EA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone tell me where I can find the original recording of the tune = "Ole", which Zorn, Frisell and Lewis play on "News For Lulu"? ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFFFB6.87F6EA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can anyone tell me where I can find the = original=20 recording of the tune "Ole", which Zorn, Frisell and Lewis play on "News = For=20 Lulu"?
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFFFB6.87F6EA60-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Egan" Subject: RE: freddie redd's "ole" Date: 05 Aug 2000 22:12:44 -0700 You're looking for "Shades Of Redd". This was just re-released on Blue Note Japan but I think it's out of print elsewhere. >Can anyone tell me where I can find the original recording >of the tune "Ole", which Zorn, Frisell and Lewis play on >"News For Lulu"? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Graves Subject: Sonic Youth Recomendations Date: 06 Aug 2000 01:37:06 -0400 (EDT) I'm not a big SY fan, but I REALLY like Daydream Nation. And although it isn't very represenational of their total output, Goodbye 20th Century is a wonderful foray into SY's take on 20th century art music adding a harsh rock edge to pieces by Reich, Cage and even Yoko Ono. Jamie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: recent purchases Date: 06 Aug 2000 21:21:43 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFFFEC.518FB340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few comments... - Jamie Saft "Sovlanut" - I really enjoyed his brilliant work with = Previte and not so obviously brilliant but still pretty good work with = Zorn, so I ordered this album basically as soon as I heard it was = coming. Maybe it will grow a bit on me, but after a few listens I'm a = bit disappointed. There are a few interesting bits, especially the more = melodic parts, but generally it gets a bit repetitive... Also features = Jim Black and Chris Speed. - Uri Caine/La Gaia Scienza "Love Fugue" - This is truly strange, even = after hearing Caine's other classical/jazz works. Here he takes a = different approach, and basically turns the Schumann's Dichterleibe into = quirky pop songs. The basic group is Uri Caine (piano), David Gilmore = (guitar) and Mark Ledford (vocals). The vocals are a bit 'cheesy' and = may put people off. David Moss weirds the recording up a bit with some = growling noises over 3 of the tracks (any recommendations of other stuff = this guy's done?) and there's also some tracks featuring poets. Oh, I = almost forgot, for some reason, the four movements of the Piano Quartet = Op. 47 are inserted in at various points, played straight by La Gaia = Scienza. - Medeski, Martin & Wood "Best Of 1991-1996" - I've always liked a = couple of tracks off each album, but never enough to actually go out and = buy them. So, this was pretty perfect for me! It's got one track off = their first album, 3 or 4 each off the next 3, one off their Bubblehouse = EP, and one live track... - Rahsaan Roland Kirk "Dog Years In The Fourth Ring" - I got this 3 CD = set because I wanted to get more into Kirk's work, and I noticed that it = contained stuff that other people had covered, like 'Breath-A-Thon' (on = Dave Douglas' latest trio album) and Bacharach's 'I Say A Little Prayer' = (on Ground Zero "Plays Standards"), as well as some Coltrane, Monk and = Miles tunes which I figured would be interesting to hear by Kirk. = Anyway, what I didn't know is that the third CD is actually "Natural = Black Inventions: Root Strata", which features Kirk playing nearly = everything himself (with no overdubs, that is) and playing all sorts of = horns at once, plus a lot of percussion. Towards the end it gets a bit = stale, but it's certainly an interesting CD, and a great bonus for "Dog = Years..." Julian. http://www.hartingdale.com.au/~jcurwin ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFFFEC.518FB340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A few comments...
 
- Jamie Saft "Sovlanut" - I really = enjoyed his=20 brilliant work with Previte and not so obviously brilliant but still = pretty good=20 work with Zorn, so I ordered this album basically as soon as I heard it = was=20 coming. Maybe it will grow a bit on me, but after a few listens I'm = a bit=20 disappointed. There are a few interesting bits, especially the more = melodic=20 parts, but generally it gets a bit repetitive... Also features Jim Black = and=20 Chris Speed.
 
- Uri Caine/La Gaia Scienza "Love = Fugue" - This is=20 truly strange, even after hearing Caine's other classical/jazz works. = Here he=20 takes a different approach, and basically turns the Schumann's = Dichterleibe into=20 quirky pop songs. The basic group is Uri Caine (piano), David Gilmore = (guitar)=20 and Mark Ledford (vocals). The vocals are a bit 'cheesy' and may put = people off.=20 David Moss weirds the recording up a bit with some growling noises over = 3 of the=20 tracks (any recommendations of other stuff this guy's done?) and there's = also=20 some tracks featuring poets. Oh, I almost forgot, for some reason, the = four=20 movements of the Piano Quartet Op. 47 are inserted in at various points, = played=20 straight by La Gaia Scienza.
 
- Medeski, Martin & Wood "Best Of = 1991-1996" -=20 I've always liked a couple of tracks off each album, but never enough to = actually go out and buy them. So, this was pretty perfect for me! It's=20 got one track off their first album, 3 or 4 each off the next 3, = one off=20 their Bubblehouse EP, and one live track...
 
- Rahsaan Roland Kirk "Dog Years In The = Fourth=20 Ring" - I got this 3 CD set because I wanted to get more into Kirk's = work, and I=20 noticed that it contained stuff that other people had covered, like=20 'Breath-A-Thon' (on Dave Douglas' latest trio album) and Bacharach's 'I = Say A=20 Little Prayer' (on Ground Zero "Plays Standards"), as well as some = Coltrane,=20 Monk and Miles tunes which I figured would be interesting to hear by = Kirk.=20 Anyway, what I didn't know is that the third CD is actually "Natural = Black=20 Inventions: Root Strata", which features Kirk playing nearly everything = himself=20 (with no overdubs, that is) and playing all sorts of horns at once, plus = a lot=20 of percussion. Towards the end it gets a bit stale, but it's certainly = an=20 interesting CD, and a great bonus for "Dog Years..."
 
 
Julian.
http://www.hartingdale.co= m.au/~jcurwin
------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFFFEC.518FB340-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Fruitman Subject: Seeking Merzbow Burn Date: 06 Aug 2000 12:28:45 +0100 Has anyone got a copy of Merzbow & Christoph Heeman, _Sleeper Awakes on the Edge of the Abyss_ (Streamline 10003 CD) from 1993 that they could make a CDr of for me? Your efforts will be richly rewarded.... All the best, Stephen ---------------------- ---------------------- ############ P=E4r Eliasson Department of History of Science and Ideas Ume=E5 University S-901 87 Ume=E5 Tel (+46) 90 768 68 89 =46ax (+46) 90 14 33 74 E-Mail: par.eliasson@idehist.umu.se ############ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Seeking Merzbow Burn Date: 06 Aug 2000 10:35:40 EDT hi, Stephen. << Has anyone got a copy of Merzbow & Christoph Heeman, _Sleeper Awakes on the Edge of the Abyss_ (Streamline 10003 CD) from 1993 that they could make a CDr of for me? Your efforts will be richly rewarded.... >> I have this, and I could make you a copy, but if you're basing this on David Keenan's ludicrous description of this in the new Wire as not only the best Merzbow record, but also the best Heemann record, you're almost definitely going to be sadly disappointed. it's one of the least consequential records from the first wave of Streamlines (many of which are essential, the two Intersystems and the Morphogenesis come to mind first), before Anomalous took over the label. it tries to be atmospheric and ambient, but I've never thought it added up to much. I played it again after reading Keenan's review, but my opinion still holds, and I even talked to some other Merzbow and/or Heemann fans (both of which I'd consider myself, to varying degrees). no one has any idea what he's talking about. anyway, if you're still interested, contact me offlist. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com P.S. the best Merzbow CDs, not even mentioned in Keenan's top 10, are the two volumes of Music For Bondage Performance (Extreme). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: recent purchases Date: 06 Aug 2000 13:43:59 -0400 I would add that NBI:RS is also the Kirk album that Zorn cites in the notorious Radio Show cd.  I've been enjoying "Blacknuss" myself lately, and have got my eye on the Mercury box set.  I've really listened to the Dog Years box more than any other Kirk...and have heard the Warner Brothers compilation and the Mercury "two-fer" of "Don't You Cry Beautiful Edith..." but not much else.

Any nice and obscure Kirk references out there?

Matt
 

Julian wrote:

 Anyway, what I didn't know is that the third CD is actually "Natural Black Inventions: Root Strata", which features Kirk playing nearly everything himself (with no overdubs, that is) and playing all sorts of horns at once, plus a lot of percussion. Towards the end it gets a bit stale, but it's certainly an interesting CD, and a great bonus for "Dog Years..." 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: recent purchases Date: 06 Aug 2000 14:08:05 -0400 Matt Laferty wrote: > Any nice and obscure Kirk references out there? Just to add that NBI:RS has always been my favorite Rahsaan record and I was pleasantly surprised that the track Zorn plays on the Radio Hour disc is "Black Root", is one of my single favorite pieces of music ever. As is another of his selections, the Mantler/Sanders collaboration, 'Preview'. Brian Olewnick NP: Jon Gibson, Two Solo Pieces - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Big Gundown Date: 06 Aug 2000 18:21:09 GMT Hey! Somebody mentioned that he got his hands on a prerelease version of "The Big Gundown 15th Aniversary". Could you enlighten us with a bit more information about the bonustracks? Apparently they are newly recorded. Titles? Musicians? Thanks a lot! ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Sonic Youth Date: 06 Aug 2000 18:29:20 GMT Hey! About Sonic Youth, it seems I have a bit different attidue than most: I think the new stuff is easily the best! It seems many people thought they went kind of downhill when they gave up the powertools and started in the more normal and melodic song vain. I don't think so. I think as noise makers they are far from the top. Compare the guitar work to the real master (my opinion) like Haino Keiji, Jojo, Null, Yamamoto Seechi, Marc Ribot, Fred Frith and so on, Lee and Thurston seems rather uniteresting. Especially if you check out some of the dreadfull side projects and impro CDs. But for melody, SY are great. One of my favorite's is "Experimental Jetset, Trash And No Star" (I forgot the correct title, sorry). Probably their most poppy one, also. But great songs! And they are great singer all three... (about the lyrics I'm not so sure...) But best of all is the new one "NYC Ghosts And Flowers". No noise at all (more or less...), but very long minimal "psychedelic" pieces. And very melodic. Sublimely produced by Jim O'Rourke... Lyrics are also quite good. Just my 2 cents, ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Sonic Youth recommendations? Date: 06 Aug 2000 17:30:49 -0500 Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com wrote: > I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some > recommendations. Also, since I'll start at the used record stores, I'd > be glad to know which albums I needn't bother with. My own preferences are as follows: 1. EVOL - My first SY and still my favorite. Dark and disturbing, but with enough of the nascent craftsmanship that would burst through in 'Daydream Nation' to make it more recommendable than the earlier releases. Tracks like "Tom Violence," "Shadow of a Doubt" (based on Hitchcock's 'Strangers on a Train') and "Expressway to Yr. Skull" still haunt me. (The followup, 'Sister' is similar but has never gripped me so tightly as this one.) 2. DAYDREAM NATION - Truly the breakthrough album, and the one to get if you're only getting one. This is where the early experimentalism is met in equal measure to the structured songwriting to follow in subsequent years. 3. GOO - Gets a bad rap for being the group's above-ground sellout album, but frankly the pop songs are good ("Dirty Boots" and "Kool Thing" - the latter with hilarious posturing by Public Enemy's Chuck D.) and there's enough here of real interest (the slightly silly but touching encomium to Karen Carpenter, "Tunic," and the dark, atmospheric "Disappearer") to make it a worthwhile album. (The followup, 'Dirty,' has its adherents, but I'm not one of them. 'Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star' is not quite as good as 'Goo' but better than 'Dirty.') 4. A THOUSAND LEAVES - This one came after the disappointing 'Washing Machine' and the woodshedding of the first few SYR EPs, and strikes me as both a return to form and a wistful, almost valedictory set from an edgy group finally easing into middle-aged maturity. I enjoyed this one much more than I expected to. (Lots of people have good things to say about the new one, 'NYC Ghosts and Flowers,' but this one struck me as a far more self-conscious attempt to meld the experimental and the songful than did 'A Thousand Leaves,' which to me sounded completely organic. Don't know how much of that was due to the presence of Jim O'Rourke as outside provocateur.) Finally, many on this list have lauded the double CD of modern classical "covers," but I've still not gotten around to that one. Hope this is helpful to some extent. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Stanley Turrentine & the Three Sounds, "There Is No Greater Love," 'Blue Hour - The Complete Sessions' (Blue Note) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: recent purchases Date: 06 Aug 2000 20:36:05 -0400 At 09:21 PM 8/6/00 +1000, Julian wrote: >>>> David Moss weirds the recording up a bit with some growling noises over 3 of the tracks (any recommendations of other stuff this guy's done?) <<<< This past week I listened to Full House, a series of duets with many of our usual suspects (e.g., Frith, Zorn, Lindsay, etc.) and found his vocal mannerisms a little wearing. I prefer him on drums and percussion, especially his work with guitarist John King, such as John King's Electric World on Ear-Rational, and Texture Time, the Dense Band recording on Intakt. They feature him in more of a rock setting, where his vocals work a little better for me, and where his drumming is much more in the forefront. His solo album on Intakt, My Favorite Things, isn't too bad, and got generally good reviews when it came out (including one in Cadence). I've also got an improv album with Moss, King, and Otomo which is interesting too. Patrice has a good discography of him at http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/artists/moss.david/discog.html, especially good at listing all of his sideman dates. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: next Unheard Music Series releases Date: 06 Aug 2000 20:46:36 -0400 At 09:29 PM 8/4/00 EDT, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > >Belle-View is so ass-kicking that John Corbett has selected it as the initial >release in a UMS miniseries: "Unheard Greats of Swiss Electroacoustic >Improvised Music". ^^^^^ I'm not sure whether to be pleased that there are so many unheard greats in Swiss electroacoustic improvised music, or to wonder what happened to the unheard greats in electroacoustic improvised music from outside Switzerland. Must be a more well populated genre than I imagined. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "abulafia" Subject: Re: SY recomendations Date: 06 Aug 2000 18:05:12 -0500 > I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some > recommendations. Also, since I'll start at the used record stores, I'd > be glad to know which albums I needn't bother with. Well my list for this is long so lets try to sum up a bit, lets start at the beginning. I still have no problems recommending "Confusion is sex + kill yr idols" this is a great, rough, harsh record that has amazing depth under a think layer of afrontive scrawl & bad recording. From there "Bad moon rising" & "Evol" area fine albums but probably better left to fill in the gaps. "Sister" & "Daydream Nation" are often sited by critics as there best works, & they may well be. Though not my all the time favorites they do encapsulate what made SY an almost popular band. That is, the synthesis of pop construction and abstract, chaotic, post-modern punk. These records also hold the first hint of the future SY, that is the sea of phased-out indy guitar swing, floting off into the mist,..... but just hints. "Ciccone Youth, the Whitey Album" has been on various days my favorite. Macbeth stands as one of there best single efforts. (not to say "an effort at a single") Make "Goo" the last SY album you buy. Many will try to lead you astray by saying this is there best album. IT'S A DAMN LIE! they had just got signed, and recorded wonderful punk songs with a major label studio & it's producer. If you want to hear what "Goo" is supposed to sound like, go rent "91' the year punk broke" or seek out some bootlegs of that era. Moving on, "Dirty" was my first favorite SY album, that & "Experimental, Jet set...." are also the most likely ones you are to find at any given used bin. either is a great investment. "Dirty" is far more punk driven, in a way it reminds me of Nirvana's "Nevermind". "Experimental..." is much quieter, but is so chalk full of hooks it's a instant hit. But that being said, it runs the danger of getting it's self played out. From there Sonic Youth entered there current era starting with "Washing Machine", "SYR1", "SYR2", "SKR1", "A Thousand Leaves", "SYR3", "SYR4", & "NYC Ghost's & Flowers" I would not recommend SYR3 (it takes a high degree of patience), SKR1 (it was a one off lark with little cohesiveness), or SYR4 (it is SY performing works by other 20th century modern classical composers). These are nice in there proper context but are not there most striking works. of "Washing Machine", "SYR1", "SYR2", "A Thousand Leaves", & "NYC Ghosts & Flowers", I have a hard time splitting these up in my mind in that they are so connected conceptually. Moving from one to the other is like seeing the band conceive of and than execute new facets of music that seem like it should be well know to us by now but has been turned around to face a different goal other than just entertain us. If a pool of Sonic Youth is to be delved into this is certainly the deep end. And of them I would say that Washing Machine & NYC Ghosts & Flowers Might be your best bet. Sorry if I failed to pin down a sure fired winner for you but good luck, to sum up again, my picks would be Ciccone Youth Sister Daydream Nation Dirty Washing Machine NYC Ghost's & Flowers in no particular order (though confusion is sex, experimental..., syr1,syr2, & a thousand leaves are fine record too) abulafia@i1.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: La Monte Young in RealAudio Date: 06 Aug 2000 22:05:20 -0500 It's not the bootleg quality release of the ensemble with Tony Conrad and John Cale recently discussed on the list, but some of y'all may be interested: On Mappings, my weekly new music program on Antenna Internet Radio , La Monte Young's composition: The Second Dream of the High-Tension Line Stepdown Transformer from the Four Dreams of China. Available until Sunday August 13 (shows change approximately 11 pm Greenwich -0700). See you there then. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: SY recomendations Date: 07 Aug 2000 00:35:30 -0400 Re: > > I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some > > recommendations. Also, since I'll start at the used record stores, I'd > > be glad to know which albums I needn't bother with. I also would be interested in hearing some of the SY fans on the lists reports of the Moore/Spooky/ONO shows recently. Szwed poo-pooed one in the last wire... I have found myself (a long-time Sonic Youth fan) getting more interested in the side projects of the various members. Certainly my favorite has to be Moore, Jim Sauter, Don Deitrich's "Barefoot in the Head" The record is intense and thoughtful and features hi-larious liner notes by "Thomas Pynchon" (uh, huh...) I also love the two solo guitar 45's that Moore and Ranaldo put out on Table of the Elements. So some obscure solo project recomendations would be nice to hear-- Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Sonic Youth recommendations? Date: 07 Aug 2000 00:37:33 EDT In a message dated 8/6/00 5:34:39 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << the disappointing 'Washing Machine' >> the thing about Sonic Youth, as I think I mentioned here the last time we had this discussion, is that everyone seems to have different opinions on the respective merits of their catalog. for instance, I think that Diamond Sea, the epic closer on Washing Machine, is easily the best thing in their entire catalog. I almost think you should just buy whichever full-length you find cheapest. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Ong Subject: david maranha Date: 06 Aug 2000 23:52:33 -0400 Has anyone heard that new David Maranha disc? I'm wondering if it's recommendable. Thanks, -eric. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: any sound files on web? Date: 07 Aug 2000 01:54:27 -0400 Are there any good sources for sound files of "our" kind of music on the Web? Tried out Napster but that's far too haphazard and frustrating to be of much use, esp since I had a dial-up modem and don't care about getting legit releases. Stuff on the web at least is around more than an hour or two; I'm particularly fond of archived radio shows (though wish more would do like WFMU and let you download rather than just stream the show). I'm more interested in rarities, live material or stuff not easily available like the several collections of Bollywood songs. Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm "Where Do You Want to Go Today" Somewhere you can never take me! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: Killer Joey Date: 07 Aug 2000 08:57:51 +0200 Hello, any idea where this cd can be purchased elsewhere? Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten -----Original Message----- Sent: vrijdag 4 augustus 2000 10:40 Last night I saw Joeys new band Killer Joey in Frankfurt/Germany. As you might now this is Joey with Steve Cardenas on guitar, Tony Scherr on bass and Brad Shepik replacing Adam Levy on guitar. Joey sold CDs of this band from the bandstand. The Killer Joey CD is basically like a home made recording, sound quality is not really great. But I like the idea of recording such a CD and selling it directly to the fans at gigs. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 07 Aug 2000 13:23:43 CEST >From: Matt Laferty > >I would add that NBI:RS is also the Kirk album that Zorn cites in the > >notorious Radio Show cd. I've been enjoying "Blacknuss" myself >lately, >and have got my eye on the Mercury box set. I've really listened to the Dog >Years box more than any other >Kirk...and have heard the Warner Brothers >compilation and the Mercury >"two-fer" of "Don't You Cry Beautiful >Edith..." but >not much else. > >Any nice and obscure Kirk references out there? As a compilation I would highly recommend 'Talkinī Verve: Roots Of Acid Jazz'. This is a Best Of... deserving the term. Other good choices not mentioned so far are 'We Free Kings' (1961), 'Domino' (1962) and last but not least 'Rip, Rig & Panic' (1965). Andreas ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: has anyone heard this disc? Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:33:49 +0200 Hello, I spotted this cd on the other music website. Did anyone hear this cd allready? Thank you in advance, Stefan Verstraeten ----excerpt from http://www.othermusic.com-------- Kahimi Karie "Tilt" CD (Polydor, Japan) For her third proper full-length album, Kahimi Karie expands her ever-widening sphere of collaborators even further, making "Tilt" her most eclectic pop collection to date. Over the course of the album's 13 tracks, Karie shoots off in several directions charting, for her at least, some new territory. Includes songs written by and performed with Momus, Arto Lindsay, Julien Ribot, and the Olivia Tremor Control. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Various items FS Date: 07 Aug 2000 10:35:08 -0400 I have the following items for sale that some on this list may be interested in. All prices _US $_. POSTAGE PAID within North America. Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged. If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER. $12 -- Caetano Veloso - "Estrangeiro" BRA CD (Universal Brazil) 1989 [Excellent late 80's work. Feat. Arto Lindsay, Bill Frisell, Marc Ribot & Nan=E1 Vasconcelos. Prod. by Lindsay & Peter Shere= r.] $10 -- Caetano Veloso - "Circulad=F4" US CD (Elektra Nonesuch) 1991 [Early 90's album feat. Gilberto Gil, Gal Costa, Arto Lindsay, Marc Ribot, Butch Morris, Riyuichi Sakamoto & Bebel Gilberto. Prod. by Lindsay.] $15 -- Cop Shoot Cop - "Consumer Revolt" UK CD (Big Cat) 1992 $22 -- Felt - "Pictorial Jackson Review/Train Above The City" UK CD (Creation) 1988 [2 excellent Felt LPs on disc. Out of print.] $35 -- H.N.A.S. - "Gegenst=E4nde Fallen Zu Boden" GER CD (Dom Elchklang= : dom ek 008) 1994 [Heemann & P. Li Khan w/ Andreas Martin, Frank Dommert and more. Material from 1986 - 89 ... from the "Bitte Werfen Sie Ihren M=FCll Aus Dem Fenster" LP, "Neue deutsche Post Avantgarde" comp LP, "Ciguri" comp LP, and the "Face To Face V.2= " LP (w/ Vox Populi). Digipak. Limited to 1000. Out of print.] $15 -- Loggerhead - "Demons In Rapture" AUS CD (Dr. Jim's) 1994 [Excellent disc by Francois Tetaz (solo CD on Dorobo) & Milton M= . Ambient, dub, dirge, drone, beats, noise & metallic rhythms ... think early Ice/Scorn crossed w/ the Young Gods. Out of print.] $12 -- Scorn - "Lick Forever Dog" UK CD (Earache UK: MOSH 61) 1992 [Classic, dub-heavy, early material. Out of print.] $18 -- Stefan Tischler - "Excess Of Free Speech" CD (Extreme: xcd014) 1= 992 [Early release on the Extreme label. Out of print.] more at: [ http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/muse.html ] Thanks for looking. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: otomo guitar solo ltd. Date: 07 Aug 2000 11:13:25 CDT I assume that a limited edition of fifty (50) is designed as either a cruel joke on completists, or in Otomo's case, a cruel gift for one's family's reunion. Has anyone heard his extremely limited-edition solo guitar recording (an Amoebic CD-r)? The solo (?) guitar track from PLAYS STANDARDS I remember being pretty insanely burning---was that Ayler? Thanks in advance, -----s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Favorite Louis Armstrong? Date: 07 Aug 2000 12:17:52 -0400 What with the centennial either upon us or coming up, I'm looking for a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre. Why I'm asking _here_ is that I'm assuming that many of us will share some of the same criteria of what constitutes "high points." (In other words, I don't expect _anyone_ to say seriously that "Kenny G did a fantastic thing with LA's 'Wonderful World'!") So, what's a good survey of Satch's works? -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Miles Reissues Date: 07 Aug 2000 11:39:28 -0400 I don't think I've seen this here yet, but... Columbia/Sony/whatever last week released three Miles reissues, "On the Corner", "Big Fun" (with extra tracks), and, for the first time in the States, about 25 years later than they should have, "Get Up With It". "On the Corner" is essential stuff, his clattering funk explosion. "Get Up With It", beside including the noise fest "Rated X" and the propulsive "Calypso Frelimo", has the ambient masterwork "He Loved Him Madly", which inspired and influenced the ambient movement through Robert Quine turning Eno onto it (and Eno thus creating "On Land", which features members of Material, which gets vaguely near Zorn-relevance :-] ). It may be Teo Macero's masterwork. If you don't have them, get them. (If you do, does anyone know how they compare to the previous domestic release of "On the Corner" and the existing import CDs of "Get Up With It"?) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Miles Reissues Date: 07 Aug 2000 12:39:36 -0400 >and, for the first time in the States, about 25 years later than >they should have, "Get Up With It". Do you mean CD? I have a domestic LP release of this. But they're all great albums. Just think: in ten years there will be Super-Maxi-DVD releases of all the unedited 70s Miles recordings so we can make our own mixes! Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Miles Reissues Date: 07 Aug 2000 19:40:50 +0200 Hi, I see, Joseph, that i'm not the only '70s Miles maniac here... ;-) I must say that this is the stuff that really excites me now. Joseph Zitt wrote: >Columbia/Sony/whatever > last week released three Miles reissues, "On the Corner", "Big Fun" > (with extra tracks), and, for the first time in the States, about 25 > years later than they should have, "Get Up With It". Do you mean that there are extra tracks on 'on the corner'?! I think your 'extra tracks' refered to ' big fun', but still, one has to ask, you understand me... that question is really critical... And, BTW, is that record remastered in an interesting way? In fact: if i have the 'columbia masterpieces' version, will i get any gain in sound quality by getting that new one? (I'm alsolutely crazy about that stuff). I have to say that the sound quality of that edition is really OK. I have the 'bitches brew' boxed set, and there are a few unreleased tunes coming from the sessions that 'big fun' is from. Are there any new tunes compared to the boxed set edition? I hope not... > "On the Corner" is essential stuff, his clattering funk explosion. Well... I can't agree more. Seriously recommended. Really a reccord that can't be overestimated. And I feel i should really insist here. One of the best albums ever. > "Get Up With It", beside including the noise fest "Rated X" and the > propulsive "Calypso Frelimo", has the ambient masterwork "He Loved > Him Madly", which inspired and influenced the ambient movement > through Robert Quine turning Eno onto it (and Eno thus creating "On > Land", which features members of Material, which gets vaguely near > Zorn-relevance :-] ). It may be Teo Macero's masterwork. I have the Japanese 'mastersound' miniLP sleeve edition of that (fabulous!) one, which is great. What is the Eno album you are referring to like? (I'm also a serious Eno fan...) > If you don't have them, get them. RIGHT NOW ;-] And don't forget the live albums, especially 'black beauty' and 'dark magus', still avaialble in nice digipack reissues... >(If you do, does anyone know how they > compare to the previous domestic release of "On the Corner" and the > existing import CDs of "Get Up With It"?) The boxed set edition of 'big fun' tunes are wonderful, as well as the mastersound versions of 'big fun' and 'get up'. The 'columbia masterpieces' edition of 'On the corner' is good. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Odp: Miles Reissues Date: 07 Aug 2000 13:00:55 -0400 On Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 07:40:50PM +0200, Marcin Gokieli wrote: > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > >Columbia/Sony/whatever > > last week released three Miles reissues, "On the Corner", "Big Fun" > > (with extra tracks), and, for the first time in the States, about 25 > > years later than they should have, "Get Up With It". > > Do you mean that there are extra tracks on 'on the corner'?! I think your > 'extra tracks' refered to ' big fun', but still, one has to ask, you > understand me... that question is really critical... As I understand it, "On the Corner" has no extra tracks. > I have the 'bitches brew' boxed set, and there are a few unreleased tunes > coming from the sessions that 'big fun' is from. Are there any new tunes > compared to the boxed set edition? I hope not... Well, while the tracks on the "Big Fun" reissue are in the Bitches Box, I'm told that the "Great Expectations" on it is several minutes longer than the boxed edition. > > "Get Up With It", beside including the noise fest "Rated X" and the > > propulsive "Calypso Frelimo", has the ambient masterwork "He Loved > > Him Madly", which inspired and influenced the ambient movement > > through Robert Quine turning Eno onto it (and Eno thus creating "On > > Land", which features members of Material, which gets vaguely near > > Zorn-relevance :-] ). It may be Teo Macero's masterwork. > > I have the Japanese 'mastersound' miniLP sleeve edition of that (fabulous!) > one, which is great. > What is the Eno album you are referring to like? (I'm also a serious Eno > fan...) Eno mentions it in the liner notes to "On Land", which is what turned me on to the album. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? Date: 07 Aug 2000 14:28:28 -0500 Maurice Rickard wrote: > What with the centennial either upon us or coming up, I'm looking for > a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre. Why > I'm asking _here_ is that I'm assuming that many of us will share > some of the same criteria of what constitutes "high points." Any serious Armstrong collection (and arguably any serious jazz collection) HAS to start with the early recordings of the Hot Fives and Sevens from the 1920s. These have been reissued a few times over the years. The Columbia Masterworks releases from the '80s, while the least expensive option, are to be avoided wholeheartedly due to extreme abuse of noise reduction technology - they sound flat and lifeless. The best transfers I've heard are those on the four volumes reissued by JSP, a little British label. The music on these discs leaps out of the speakers in a way that bridges the years rather nicely. I have not heard the new comprehensive 4CD box set from Legacy, but am assured that it is a great improvement on the earlier Columbias and possibly comparable to the JSPs, and offers some previously unreleased material. Perhaps you should just start with Volume One of the JSPs and then decide how much further you want to go. If you add Volume Two you'll actually have most of the actual original Hot Fives and Sevens material, and Volume Two also features a few cameos by the great blues guitarist Lonnie Johnson. Look to Armstrong's recordings with pianist Earl Hines for a real meeting of equals. Performances to look out for include "West End Blues," "Weather Bird" and "Tight Like This," all three included on Volume Three of the JSP series and probably on the new Legacy box as well. (The fourth JSP volume, for those who are curious, collects lively ephemera and begins to point towards the big band years to follow, but is least essential for the budget-minded.) RCA Victor offers three different configurations of its Armstrong big band material from the '30s - a four CD complete set, a single disc of highlights from that set, and a new 2CD set issued for the centennial (which in reality is a year away, as Armstrong was actually born on August 1, 1901). Purchase according to how much you want from this reasonably important but definitely lesser period. The complete box also includes recordings with Jack Teagarden from Armstrong's return to Victor in the late '40s. Armstrong recorded for Verve and Decca during the next phase of his career (late '30s-mid '40s, and late '40s-late '50s), and much of the best of this can now be found on a new 3CD Verve anthology 'The Ultimate Collection.' You can begin there, and then follow up with the source albums depending on how this sampling moves you. This set also offers a sampling of the music that Armstrong recorded in the '20s with Fletcher Henderson, which is when he truly began to catch the ears of the jazz world in New York. It's a good one to have all around. The peak of Armstrong's popularity came in the late '50s when Armstrong was recording for Columbia (as well as Decca). No one would claim that any of this material is amongst the best of his career, but it does have its charms. Legacy has reissued three of the more popular records of this period, all of which have their merits: 'Louis Armstrong Plays W.C. Handy,' 'Satch Plays Fats,' and 'Ambassador Satch.' But these are less essential if you've got the Verve set above. During the last decades of his life, Armstrong might be seen as coasting on his not-inconsiderable laurels, making albums with other stars - of these, the recordings with Ella Fitzgerald for Verve are rightfully considered classics, and the recordings with Duke Ellington for Roulette (newly reissued on Blue Note) are also worthwhile. A bit long-winded, but I hope this is what you had in mind. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: satchmo Date: 07 Aug 2000 11:52:42 -0700 Satchmo's Hot 5s and Hot 7s, from the 1920s, are widely acknowledged as his most important and innovative work. Emotionally packed as well. All that I've heard have been great, although I'm partial to his 1928 recordings with Earl Hines (and the Hots). Particular cuts to keep your eye open for include Struttin With Some Barbeque and Weather Vane.... >From: Maurice Rickard >Subject: Favorite Louis Armstrong? >What with the centennial either upon us or coming up, I'm looking for >a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:01:30 -0400 I'm looking for >a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre. Admittedly biased position: Go for the oldest stuff. The work with King Oliver and Earl Hines from 24-32 or so is almost universally excellent. West End Blues from 27 or 28 is widely regarded as one of the most amazingly emotional jazz songs ever. Period. It's on columbia's chronological series number 4. Number 3 of the Hot Fives and Sevens is also excellent and features amazing guitarist Lonnie Johnson. Easiest way to get most (but not everything) of this: Columbia's 4(?) cd box Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. His collaboration with Jimmie Rodgers "Blue Yodel #9" is also a delight. Matt --- Matt Laferty Department of English, General Literature, & Rhetoric Binghamton University PO Box 6000 Binghamton, NY 13902 607.777.2754 bg60009@binghamton.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Gustafsson Date: 07 Aug 2000 12:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Hi, I remember Mats Gustafsson and John Butcher being mentioned a while ago here, and though I still don't know anything about Butcher, I've learned a hell of a lot more about Gustafsson by buying "Parrot Fish Eye" which was great and then "Mouth Eating Trees and Related Activities" which is phenomenal. So the question is this: What would you recommend for similar free-improv from any of the "Mouth Eating Trees.." personnel? Also, am highly interested the limited Gustafsson/Hamid Drake disc, "For Don Cherry", but Okka is sold out. Know where I can get it? Thanks much. ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:10:38 -0400 At 2:28 PM -0500 8/7/00, Steve Smith wrote: > >A bit long-winded, but I hope this is what you had in mind. > Excellent! This gives me a lot to go on. I've actually been quite taken with the Hot 5 and Hot 7 stuff I've heard, and I had just seen that the Legacy box is about to drop. I was leaning toward it, and I'm probably going to take the plunge, as long as the Earl Hines recordings are included. My knowledge of the other periods is sadly trivial, so your guide is a big help. I can dip into those after checking out the Hot 5 and 7 stuff. The Legacy box does indeed seem to have some killer tracks, btw: http://legacyrecordings.com/LouisArmstrong/newreleases.html#Box Any comments on this lineup from the experts on the list? And to address Matt's and Martin's points, having listened with attention to "West End Blues" the other day is what has lit this fire under me. Beautiful. Thanks to everyone who's responded, Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Hip Hop Cobra Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:47:44 EDT I couldn't make it to Tonic on the night of this curious line up for a Cobra piece. Anyone care to review? Thank you. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re: Hip Hop Cobra Date: 07 Aug 2000 16:05:59 -0400 Hello OnionPalac, Monday, August 07, 2000, you wrote to me: Oac> I couldn't make it to Tonic on the night of this curious line up Oac> for a Cobra piece. Anyone care to review? Thank you. Well, I cannot write normal review because I know almost nothing about Cibo Matto. But... I was on the first set. It was extremely funny and fun to see all these people on stage. The audience was a strange mix of normal Tonic fans and young girls and boys who tried to dance. The musicians I know were Arto Lindsay, Ben Perowski, Sean Lennon and Sebastian Steinberg. Others were members of Cibo Matto and some guests I never saw before. Perowski played in his usual very straight manner, but this time it was good and I liked it. Lindsay was not playing guitar but making funny sounds only. It was really great. The weird thing was that Lennon couldn't play bass at all. It seemed that he neither knew how to play nor understood the rules of Cobra. But it was not so bad though because there were so many other musicians and sounds. John Zorn was sitting at the table with all these signs and was managing the whole performance. He looked very happy with this music. I think I cannot add something else about it. Sorry. -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: masada influences Date: 07 Aug 2000 20:05:07 -0000 Much has been said about the obvious template that Ornette Coleman's groundbreaking quartet provides for the Masada group, but lately I've been listening to Don Cherry's 'Complete Communion' date from 1965 on Blue Note (recently reissued, great sound) and finding it to be the 'long lost' Masada date! Check it out, with the fiery tenor playing of Gato Barbieri (what happened to that guy?) and Henry Grimes bass and Ed Blackwell drums. Another record that I figure had a big influence on Zorn is the Charles Earland soundtrack to 'The Dynamite Brothers' which found the funky 'barbeque' organ playing of Earland moving 'out' with the help from some of the Herbie Hancock 'Sextant' crowd, like Eddie Henderson trumpet, Pat Gleeson synthesisers, and Billy Hart drums. But especially intriguing is the sax and flute playing of Dave Hubbard, anyone know any other dates he's played on? Finally, the best 'new' date I've discovered is from Michael Riessler, a German clarinetist & composer, whose work encompasses jazz, 'new music' & 'world' music, and who has worked with Steve Reich, John Cage, Vinko Globokar, etc. His new CD, entitled 'Orange' on the ACT Music label has him playing in a very unique ensemble with Elise Caron vocals, Jean Louis Matinier accordion, and Pierre Charial, who coaxes the most amazing sounds out of a barrel organ. Riessler has previously worked with Valentin Clastrier who plays the hurdy-gurdy (Palude is the result of this other brilliant collaboration), and one can only be astounded by the electronic sounding timbres that these old instruments are capable of producing. Well worth the effort tracking down these albums.. _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Hip Hop Cobra Date: 07 Aug 2000 16:50:42 -0400 Does anyone care to give any input on Sean Lennon? From what I have seen he's not that great. I witnessed "Sean Lennon and Friends" during the Circuit Foundation nights at Tonic. It seemed more like the Yuka Honda show with Yoko Ono's irrepressible orgasm sounds throughout. Yuka definitely ran the show and Sean seemed to be looking to her (and perhaps others) for direction. Even though he wasn't in charge, he still didn't seem to be contributing much to the music. I though it was funny when, after direction from Yoko, he said through the PA to the sound person, "Make sure to have my moth--her mic on... at all times." Dan Hewins NP: Blue Man Group "Audio" (it was a gift from my mom...it's pretty good though) >The weird thing was that >Lennon couldn't play bass at all. It seemed that he neither knew how >to play nor understood the rules of Cobra. But it was not so bad >though because there were so many other musicians and sounds. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: Gustafsson Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:59:48 -0600 >"Mouth Eating Trees.." personnel? i can't remember off hand the personnel here but I'll stick up for "You forget to answer" with Barry guy and Raymond Strid. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "abulafia" Subject: Further into the SY issue. Date: 07 Aug 2000 18:44:54 -0500 > "Arthur Gadney" > 4. A THOUSAND LEAVES - This one came after the and the woodshedding of the first few SYR EPs, and strikes me as > both a return to form and a wistful, almost valedictory set from an edgy > group finally easing into middle-aged maturity. I enjoyed this one much > more than I expected to. I must say I find this stament rather hard to understand in that many of the tracks on "A Thousand Leaves" are clearly further developments on the very arrangments on the first two SYR EP's. & as for the "disappointing 'Washing Machine'", i find my self in roughfly the same spot as Jon " I think that Diamond Sea, the epic closer on Washing Machine, is easily the best thing in their entire catalog." More I would say it struck me as the best thing in there entire catolog the first time i heard it. since than I can't make up my mind between that, "Hoarfrost", "SkipTracer", "Hits of Sunshine", "Freecity Rymes", or "NYC Ghost's & Flowers".??!! (or many others on any given day really) This makes me think maybe the split that seems to come up between the SY camps, that is the before-Diamond Sea camp(BDS) & the after-Diamond Sea camp(ADS?) [I make the split at the song not the album because without the song the album would not have been that diffrent from the usual rate of SY forwad progress, & also I dont think that there output since then would look anything like it dose now.] might tell us that SY is simply making albums of a diffrent sort now. In BDS era SY, I can not easaly name my favorite song on the album, i can name the stronger ones. the ones that work the best for me. I think that is because the songs of the BDS era were more of a singular nature accros the album. more variations on a theme. Listen to the structure of 'Silver Rocket' & 'Teenage Riot', both on "Daydream Nation". Pop riff, suddon noise, slowly turned into riff, pop riff. Great stuff, but that idea is carried all through the album. But now in ADS era there albums seem less concerend with reworking the same ground, and more looking to try as many different things as are apropreate. Now this dose make missing the target more likly, but with a band like SY, I think the hit's (in a strickly Platonic since) are more than worth it. It also makes for a more fragmented sounding album, something the ADS album certainly are not. I see this as the cause for the increase in poor revues in the past 5 years, "wahing machine" being in 95'. So I think there albums as a whole piece were more, quote, (make little international quote gesture here) "album like" in the BDS era, and therefor better albums (in the Beatel's since of the word), but that as I started of saying my most common favorite SY "recordings/singles/songs" are mostly form there ADS period. So there you are. "The only thing we have to fear is,... those freaks in the NRA" JG abulafia@i1.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: [Not Our] John The Generator Date: 07 Aug 2000 20:45:50 -0700 Some of you might enjoy the 'John Cage Random Quote Generator' we just activated on the pfMENTUM website: http://www.pfmentum.com/cage.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: [Not Our] John The Generator Date: 07 Aug 2000 20:48:11 -0700 PS In case you haven't done the Generator thing, every time you go to that page you get a different quote...or every time you 'refresh'. http://www.pfmentum.com/cage.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: New Band of Joey Baron Date: 08 Aug 2000 09:20:21 +0200 Hello, sorry to raise this topic again, but I had quite some off list replies of people concerning my question where the cd of Killer Joey (new band of joey baron) could be obtained besides at his concerts. Reads below and smile.... Stefan Verstraeten -----Original Message----- Hi Stefan, Joey is supposed to drop me off copies this week. Also a new cd by Joey's band Down Home w/ Frisell, Arthur Blythe & Ron Carter will also be here in the next week or two. Let us know which you want & we will ship as soon as we get them. Mailing address & credit card info will also help speed up the process. Take care, Bruce from DMG - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Miles Reissues Date: 08 Aug 2000 09:39:26 +0200 > As I understand it, "On the Corner" has no extra tracks. But there should be some extra material somewhere in the archieves. Considering the way that music is edited, there should be plenty of that stuff. I just can't wait for the complete '70s Miles Box. As those records were hardly released in USA and Europe, there may be loads of tracks that where unissued anywhere. That brings another question... > Well, while the tracks on the "Big Fun" reissue are in the Bitches > Box, I'm told that the "Great Expectations" on it is several minutes > longer than the boxed edition. I HATE THE WAY THOSE GUYS ARE MAKING MONEY!!! I spent a lot of money on the boxed set, and one of the reasons for it were the 'Big fun' tunes. And now I don't have the most complete version... I hope some of my friends will buy it and i'll be able to cdr it. My version lasts 13:45. Can you check out yours? BTW the extra tunes from the BF sessions on the boxed set are incredible. Soemthing really magical was happening (and those guys are publishing it only now...) Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustavo Broggi" Subject: RE: Filmoworks II Date: 05 Aug 2000 14:37:55 -0300 Iīve bought filworks III a couple of weeks ago and it is amazing!!, great cd, strongly recommended Gustavo -----Mensaje original----- De: Marcin Gokieli Para: Zorn List Fecha: Martes 1 de Agosto de 2000 20:58 Asunto: Filmoworks II >Hi, > I listen recently to Filmowrks II intensively. An incredible album! My >fave Zorn at the moment! >Two questions: >a) What was the film the music is suppposed to illustate like? The info on >the disc are not very extensive. >b) Some similiar JZ records? (maybe Elegy would be the closest i know) >Be well, >Marcin Gokieli >marcingokieli@go2.pl >Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you >are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor > > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AFPlating@aol.com Subject: Cynical Hysterie Hour Date: 08 Aug 2000 08:25:08 EDT Hi all, i just listed my ORIGINAL copy of Cynical Hysterie Hour on Ebay if anyone is interested in this super-rare disc. eBay item 404184962 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Rigg Subject: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band. Date: 08 Aug 2000 15:08:56 +0100 Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with in the late 70s/early 80s. They both appear to have been reissued on cd by Moers Music, albeit at import price. I would very much appreciate any background info., or simply a hearty recommendation would probably do it. Cheers! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: bad mf, aka bad oedipus, aka Sean Lennon Date: 08 Aug 2000 10:13:05 CDT Hewins broke it down: >Does anyone care to give any input on Sean Lennon? From what I have >seen he's not that great...I though it was funny when, after direction from >Yoko, he >said through the PA to the sound person, "Make sure to have my >moth--her mic on... at all times." If there are any among us with extensive knowledge of psychoanalysis, it would be terrific to reconstruct Sean Lennon as Oedipal Warrior. Struggling to slay the father, yet the father is absent: the turn toward the mother is made problematic....well, maybe not. I found BEYOND THE SUN, or whatever his debut was called, a little weak; watching him frolic with Yuka (somewhere, I think it was EmptyV, er, MTV) was a little saccharine for my tastes. He is a child told several too many times that he is creative and that people will care about his contributions. Consequently, he took this as a given. ----s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Buying CDs (who it benefits) Date: 08 Aug 2000 13:36:17 -0400 There has been a lot of discussion on this list regarding the morality of copying CDs (and the whole Napster thing). I know that, through the sieve, people like Dave Douglas and Chris Speed, etc., and, I assume, to a larger extent, Zorn benefit from the purchase of one of their CDs (or LPs). Zorn benefiting more so because of his ownership of the record label, Douglas and Speed, etc. benefiting only through the terms of their contracts with the labels. My question is who is benefiting from the sales of Charlie Parker records and compilations? Miles Davis reissue after reissue? I know the answer is "their estate" but somehow that's not good enough for me. I know that the record companies are making and remaking all of these records and I'm sure they're getting a lot out of it. And "their estate" didn't make the music or record it or pay for the recording, it's just related to all of that or left in a will, etc. I realize that people can do what they like with their assets once they pass... It's like passing on an investment. Even though it makes sense to me there is still that lingering feeling that tells me that I shouldn't feel as bad about copying these older records of passed musicians. I don't do it (now) but I get that feeling. Just some thoughts. Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Miles Reissues Date: 08 Aug 2000 11:16:43 -0700 >I don't think I've seen this here yet, but... Columbia/Sony/whatever >last week released three Miles reissues, "On the Corner", "Big Fun" >(with extra tracks), and, for the first time in the States, about 25 >years later than they should have, "Get Up With It". > >"On the Corner" is essential stuff, his clattering funk explosion. > >"Get Up With It", beside including the noise fest "Rated X" and the >propulsive "Calypso Frelimo", has the ambient masterwork "He Loved >Him Madly", which inspired and influenced the ambient movement >through Robert Quine turning Eno onto it (and Eno thus creating "On >Land", which features members of Material, which gets vaguely near >Zorn-relevance :-] ). It may be Teo Macero's masterwork. "He Loved Him Madly" is, I think, the culmination of Miles proto-ambient works like In a Silent way, parts of Bitches Brew, Big Fun, etc. For me, it's one of the very few pieces of music that absolutely step outside of linear time, every time I listen to it, I'm amazed that 32 minutes have passed. > >If you don't have them, get them. (If you do, does anyone know how they >compare to the previous domestic release of "On the Corner" and the >existing import CDs of "Get Up With It"?) > I have both the new reissue and import CD of "Get Up With It". When I'm feeling particularly geeky, I'll compare the sound quality, but a cursory listen makes me think the reissue sounds a lot better. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: boy sean Date: 08 Aug 2000 14:37:55 -0500 playing the role of arbiter of artist attacks, let me add what i think is verying important to reading the youngest lennon's character. i know kristopher is just playin, but still, i think it's to sean's huge credit that he is actually not trying to slay, nor cash in on, his father. i thought 'into the sun' had a charm to it -- nice atmosphere, cute melodies, a love song to his lover. really not so different from his pop's last (premortem) release. more importantly, however, he has been content to find his way slow and quiet, doing small gigs, playing instead of leading. i'm sure he could have had a bigger contract than grand royale, major session players, world tour with julian and ringo's son wearing clothes designed by paul's daughter even. followed by his acting debut. i think he's conscious of developing his own thing, and given time he probably will. i'm not crazy about the music, but i respect his apparent efforts to keep things in scope. kg np: spring heel jack - disappeared - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Moran Subject: note on Armstrong recordings Date: 08 Aug 2000 16:54:55 -0400 (EDT) If you're in the NY-metro area, tune in to WKCR 89.9FM on Friday afternoons for Phil Schaap's ongoing programs on Louis Armstrong. Two programs ago he advised listeners to tape his broadcast of his own re-mastering of the Hot 5s and 7s; apparently he had done a cleanup job which isn't scheduled for release. In general, 'KCRs been doing a great job of respecting Armstrong lately (including a solid week of his music). -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: note on Armstrong recordings Date: 08 Aug 2000 17:04:25 -0400 >Two programs ago he advised listeners to tape his broadcast of his >own re-mastering of the Hot 5s and 7s; apparently he had done a >cleanup job which isn't scheduled for release. In general, Though with the radio compression the clean-up might not make much difference. Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: 70s Miles Wannabes In SF Date: 08 Aug 2000 14:03:48 -0700 Yo Miles! will be at the Fillmore 9/1 Isham's Silent Way Project will be at Yoshi's 9/4 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: sonic youth ab infinitum Date: 08 Aug 2000 21:48:03 -0500 (CDT) my own personal favorites: evol sister daydream nation syr 1 syr 2 a thousand leaves i have not heard any of the sy-proper discs between daydream and 1000 leaves. i'm one of those people who grew up with sy and then wrote them off after daydream. i also wrote the cure off after head on the door, metallica off after master of puppets, and rem off after life's rich pagent; the lesson being, 'writing off' is a risky business. anyway, then i got into jazz and improv music, which led me to syr 3, which led to syr 1 & 2, which led to 1000 leaves. despite my bias, i don't think one can go wrong, if one wants to experience what it was about sy that made them what they are today in some of our minds, with evol, then sister, then daydream nation. after that, i don't know what to say, because everything after that is biased by my previous exprience - but somehow, they managed to reflect my own discoveries in music dispite my having written them off (can't say that for the cure, metallica, or rem). i must admit, though, having heard goo a number of times, it basically makes me want to change the disc to daydream, evol, or sister, despite enjoying some of the songs to some degree. i've heard many positive things about washing machine (not including those on this list), and also relatively good things about the 'star trash whatever' disc (which i heard once and thought sounded like earlier sonic youth). evol just isn't then same on CD without the infinite skip at the end of side two (or was it sister?). i remember falling asleep to that lp and waking up an hour or more later thinking, 'what the fuck is going on? - wow - that's 'awesome' (as we used to say in those days). (A BLURB ON SOLO SY PROJECT:) finally, i'll put in a plug for the thurston moore, evan parker, walter prati disc on materiali sonori, 'the promise'. starts pretty much like a disc with parker and prati, with prati's signiture electronic manipulations of parker, but then branches out, including a spoken word track and a track with nice distortion. also, the disc has a really cool program that allows the user to make improvised music by clicking on different elements of graphic scenes - i think prati put it together. a nice expansion on the evan parker electroacoustic project sort of thing. this was supposed to be a short message, whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re:Spring Heel (was: boy sean) Date: 09 Aug 2000 03:00:47 GMT >From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com > >np: spring heel jack - disappeared How is this one Kurt? For me, most of their work has been a mixed bag, but I absolutely loved the piece they had on Macro Dub Infection. BA "...it is easy to find a type of machine to correspond to each society, not because machines are determinant, but because they express social forms capable of engendering and using them."--Gilles Deleuze "It is part of the mechanism of domination to forbid recognition of the suffering it produces, and there is a straight line of development between the gospel of happiness and the construction of camps of extermination so far off in Poland that each of our own countrymen can convince himself that he cannot hear the screams of pain."--Theodor Adorno ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: material Date: 09 Aug 2000 00:11:41 -0400 Hi I am packing to go on a trip and I was looking for discs to take (priorities!) and remembered that I have two different versions of Material's Seven Souls cd. One's from 89 and one's from 97. I know damn well that people on this list have these cds, and I haven't listened to either in a while... comments on which folks like better and why? Listening to both'll give me something to do on a long car ride. Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: Ken Vandermark Date: 09 Aug 2000 06:32:38 +0200 Hi Philozorners, I don't remember if Ken Vandermark was discussed here, but since he is one of my recent discoveries, I'd like to read some opinions. I have "Simpatico" and "Design in Time", both excellent records. What to look for next? What about his live performances? I know he plays a lot in Chicago, where he created a scene around him - is he popular among NY-listeners? Is he as un/known? __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl NP: Vandermark 5 "Simpatico" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Adorno (was Spring Heel) Date: 09 Aug 2000 13:44:12 GMT >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" > >Great Adorno quote, where's it from? > It comes from Minima Moralia, certainly his most accessible book and strongly recommended. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: material Date: 09 Aug 2000 14:39:41 GMT >From: Matt Laferty >I am packing to go on a trip and I was looking for discs to take >(priorities!) and remembered that I have two different versions of >Material's Seven Souls cd. Well Matt, I think they're pretty close, but the newer remix on Trilocka is generally preferred by Material heads like myself because the sound is richer and fresher and there's more dub in the remix. There's also more ambient texture. It's also longer because three of the original tracks are mixed twice on the new one, and these remixes are all interesting. This CD was remixed yet again by a bunch of DJ's but I haven't been able to get into that one. It's also on Trilocka. As far as Material goes, were I banished to an island with only four CDs from my collection, Hallucination Engine would be one of them. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers Subject: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band. Date: 09 Aug 2000 08:29:38 -0700 >Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with... I bought them because I saw Zorn and other names I knew and loved, having never heard of Moss. I have to tell you I became an instant convert and now by anything Moss does. I think he's extraordinarily talented, creative and fun. --ds Dennis Summers Quantum Dance Works members.home.net/dennisqdw/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Biffle" Subject: Yet another shameless gig announcement... Date: 09 Aug 2000 08:29:06 -0700 Miko Biffle | Nathan Fuhr | COBRA! Join Santa Cruz experimental musician Miko Biffle and Cabrillo Music = Festival=20 conducting assistant Nathan Fuhr (Cobra Ensemble-Cincinatti) for their=20 performance of John Zorn's improvisational game piece COBRA. Including=20 members of Estradasphere and members of the CabFest orchestra; expect = the=20 unexpected in this game of musical chance.=20 Monday, August 14th, 8:30 PM at the Art League Theater, 526 Broadway = St.=20 Santa Cruz. California, US $5.00. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hatta Subject: Game Piece Rules Date: 08 Aug 2000 11:52:04 -0700 I just recently got the "new" Tzadik Pool disc, and I find it is very interesting and entertaining. Abstract, but in a way that is engaging and listenable....I could see some improvisational rule sets leading to noise, or becoming too sparse. So I have become interested in what the rule sets for the various Zorn Game pieces. I searched the web and was not able to find them posted in their entirety anywhere. Have they been posted on this list? Due to the unsearchability of the list archives I was unable to find them...if anyone has them I would love a copy. On Further Musical Game topics there is a group here in Seattle, The 'Strategic Improvisation Laboratory 2000' that regularly performs game pieces, particularly Cobra. You can download a mp3 all Turntable Cobra that is pretty cool, but due to the nature of turntablists more dense than I would think it would "normally" to be. They also perform game pieces invented by local musicians. I have never seen a 'SIL2k' Performance but they are having a 'Night of Musical Games' in Seattle on August 26th for any Seattlites on the list. More info at their website. -Robert - - - "It may look as if I am searching for something; but I am seeking nothing." - Pio Baroja - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: luc ferrari: versions of "presque..." Date: 09 Aug 2000 16:48:19 CDT About one year ago, there were recommendations for "Presque Rien" by Luc Ferrari, the version on INA-GRM. In the short discography at the end of a Ferrari interview(www.mindspring.com/~youcango/paris/inter/ferrari.html), there seems to be: -an older LP version, PRESQUE RIEN (INA GRM 9104 FE, 1980; incl. "Presque Rien N°2 - ainsi continue la nuit dans ma tęte multiple" and "Promenade Symphonique ā travers un paysage musical"), -a newer release, PRESQUE RIEN (MUSIDISC 245172; incl. "Music Promenade", "Presque Rien N°1 - le lever du jour au bord de la mer", "Presque Rien N°2 - ainsi continue la nuit dans ma tęte multiple", "Presque Rien avec filles") -the release on Breuker's BVHaast label, ACOUSTIMATRIX (BVHaast, incl. among other things, "Presque rien avec filles") Qu'est-ce que la differance, dude? And if it's the MUSIDISC compact disc---I'm assuming it's a CD---where can one find MUSIDISC? I'm having trouble at my usual outlets (i.e. Other, DMG, Verge...) Thanks, people! -----s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: luc ferrari: versions of "presque..." Date: 09 Aug 2000 19:00:35 EDT In a message dated 8/9/00 5:49:08 PM, thesubtlebody@hotmail.com writes: << -a newer release, PRESQUE RIEN (MUSIDISC 245172; incl. "Music Promenade",= =20 "Presque Rien N=B01 - le lever du jour au bord de la mer", "Presque Rien N=B02 - ainsi continue la nuit dans ma t=EAte multiple", "Presque Rien avec filles") >> this is the INA-GRM CD referred to, it also says "distribution Musidisc" on=20 it. <> good luck, some of these INA-GRM discs seem to have become impossible to=20 find. I know a few people who have been searching for copies of Parmegiani's= =20 De Natura Sonorum for a while who haven't been able to turn one up anywhere. on a related note, Bjork evidently was browsing in Other Music the other day= ,=20 being helped by z-list alum Tom Pratt, and all she was looking for was=20 INA-GRM musique concrete. so maybe she'll get someone to rerelease all of=20 these... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band. Date: 10 Aug 2000 13:34:27 +0200 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: dennis summers Aan: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Datum: woensdag 9 augustus 2000 17:30 Onderwerp: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band. >>Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with... > >I bought them because I saw Zorn and other names I knew and loved, having >never heard of Moss. I have to tell you I became an instant convert and now >by anything Moss does. I think he's extraordinarily talented, creative and fun. > >--ds >Dennis Summers >Quantum Dance Works >members.home.net/dennisqdw I second this opinion Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Don't Blame Me Date: 10 Aug 2000 09:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Can someone give me a detailed description of this album... Thanks in advance... -Theo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edward Lutiy" Subject: Loos (Peter van Bergen) question (no Zorn content) Date: 10 Aug 2000 22:52:25 +0400 Good day! Sorry for no-Zorn-content message but I need your help very much. In an ordering catalog I've found the following title: Loos "Eindeloos" (New Road Music) So the question is: is this record by the Peter van Bergen's band Loos or not. If it is, what record am I to order first: "Armstrong" (on Okkadisk) or "Eindeloos". Also I would be happy to know any thoughts/opinions on these records. Thanks in advance Edward. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: david s ware quartet Date: 10 Aug 2000 12:21:42 -0700 (PDT) so it finally hit me, this disc I have been kicking around for about 8months, "wisdom of uncertainty" is blowing me away. Can anyone suggest some more essential recording by this quartet? please respond privately unless it seems appropriate to the list. a liner notes quote... "Living as an artist, one of the main stumbling blocks that we face is that people become frightened by the instability of the artistic lifestyle, everything isn't guaranteed. That instability is the key, though. Through this openness, through this insecurity, great wisdom can come. We need to put our faith in that uncertainty." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 10 Aug 2000 16:39:56 CDT I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums, years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting any of their records! Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks among the "numbered" albums. Sorry for cross-postings. ---s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 10 Aug 2000 18:22:35 EDT In a message dated Thu, 10 Aug 2000 5:53:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Kristopher S. Handley" writes: << I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums, years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting any of their records! Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks among the "numbered" albums. >> Being the Wyatt fan, I can heartily endorse 1, 2, & 3. 1 & 2 are currently available as a 2 on 1 CD... Being the Holdsworth fan too, I must also suggest a copy of _Bundles_ be a part of your library. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: don't blame me, disappeared Date: 10 Aug 2000 18:46:52 -0500 Theo requests that >someone give ... a detailed description of [Don't Blame Me] well, the word 'detailed' makes me nervous, but, ok. if you've looked at the track list, you've no doubt noticed that it's a lot of old songs. it's a really nice solo accoustic record, with his usual quirks in timing and playing. some of the best playing captured on record. if you like his cubanos or bar khoba playing, you'll probably like this, although it's not the same vibratofest. maybe my fave of his. pisses me off, tho, that i saw a nice cardboard gatefold sleeve after i already had the jewel box version. bill then asked "How is this one Kurt?" with reference to "spring heel jack - disappeared," to which i have no intelligent answer. not only do i not know their other work, i really don't listen to enough d'n'b to say anything smart. i like it, tho. some nice atmospherics along with the expected beats. the added accoustic instrumentalists are, i'd think, what allow me to listen all the way through. np: eugene chadbourne: chad-born again (house of chadula cdr rerelease) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Outsider Music Mailing List Date: 10 Aug 2000 18:53:46 -0400 http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Just starting so I hope any interested people will join. Thanks, LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm "Where Do You Want to Go Today" Somewhere you can never take me! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 10 Aug 2000 19:53:34 EDT In a message dated 8/10/00 5:53:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thesubtlebody@hotmail.com writes: << I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums, years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting any of their records! Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks among the "numbered" albums. >> I'm quite familiar with the entire Soft Machine catalog, and while it isn't one of the "numbered" recordings, the album Alive and Well Recorded In Paris is absolutely essential for any 70's fusion fan. Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 10 Aug 2000 19:02:13 -0400 On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 07:53:34PM -0400, TagYrIt@aol.com wrote: > I'm quite familiar with the entire Soft Machine catalog, and while it isn't > one of the "numbered" recordings, the album Alive and Well Recorded In Paris > is absolutely essential for any 70's fusion fan. I agree, it's my fave of theirs. Long ago, I had a 4 (?) LP set of various oddities of theirs. What I recall most fondly was a BBC recording of "The Moon in June". -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 10 Aug 2000 20:32:54 EDT In a message dated 8/10/00 7:57:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << Long ago, I had a 4 (?) LP set of various oddities of theirs. What I recall most fondly was a BBC recording of "The Moon in June". >> 3 LP box, with a great booklet, called Triple Echo, which as far as I know was British only. Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: don't blame me, disappeared Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:53:01 +1000 > well, the word 'detailed' makes me nervous, but, ok. if you've looked at the > track list, you've no doubt noticed that it's a lot of old songs. it's a really > nice solo accoustic record, with his usual quirks in timing and playing. some of > the best playing captured on record. if you like his cubanos or bar khoba > playing, you'll probably like this, although it's not the same vibratofest. Let me just add that it is very disjointed - while it is a solo record, Marc doesn't go out of his way to do the typical 'jazz guitar' chords and melody thing. By the way, he doesn't play an acoustic, does he? I think he's playing a 335 or something like that. The mention of the Cuban project and Bar Kokhba above may be a bit misleading, Don't Blame Me never really gets that 'nice' (of course, I'm not saying that like it's a bad thing)... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruno Bissonnette" Subject: Gustafsson/Drake Date: 10 Aug 2000 21:37:22 EDT A few digest ago someone posted that they'd like to get a hold of the now out-of-print Okkadisk CD "For Don Cherry" duet by Gustafsson/Drake. Well, I have a copy (numbered #400 out of 600) that I might let go at the right price, if anybody's still interested. Bruno ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 10 Aug 2000 21:42:00 EDT In a message dated Thu, 10 Aug 2000 8:34:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TagYrIt@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 8/10/00 7:57:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << Long ago, I had a 4 (?) LP set of various oddities of theirs. What I recall most fondly was a BBC recording of "The Moon in June". >> 3 LP box, with a great booklet, called Triple Echo, which as far as I know was British only. >> Which also included both sides of those first two great Soft Machine singles, one of which was "Love Makes Sweet Music"- probably my favorite pop single of all time. Why this has never seen a legit re-issue is beyond me. A 30-second bit of it as introduced by John Peel appeared on a Gong compilation a while back (_History and Mystery_ is the title, I think...) , but nothing since then. A real shame!! -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec\\\'s requested Date: 11 Aug 2000 02:06:20 -0000 "Kristopher S. Handley" writes: > ><< I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums, years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting any of their records! Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks among the "numbered" albums. Soft Machine S/T (#1): Hendrix-influenced, full blown psychedelic rock, whimsical Syd Barrett songs interpolated with high energy organ-driven power trio pyrotechnics (check out that solo on Lullaby Letter, best guitar solo ever played on an organ!) Soft Machine Volume 2: New, more competent bass player, some horn charts, moving into jazzier terrain, great suite on Side 2 (Esther's Nose Job) Soft Machine Third: The expanded 'jazz' Machine with Elton Dean sax and 2 other horn players, one 'song' per side, this was definitely their peak moment, although Robert Wyatt's wonderful whimsical singing is now restricted to his own composition, Moon In June, which also features a cool rock'n'roll minimalist ending. Soft Machine Fourth: The last one with Wyatt, no singing allowed now, we're serious musicians, and with his departure goes some of the much needed levity. Still some good moments here, the side 2 Hugh Hopper penned 'Virtually' is worthwhile. Soft Machine Fifth: avoid! The drummer on side 1 is shite, and although John Marshall rescues the proceedings on side 2, it still doesn't amount to much. They must have been in a hurry to put this one out... Soft Machine Six: The addition of Karl Jenkins (ex-Nucleus) with the Babbington-Marshall rhythm section seems to revitalise things somewhat, but they're still trying to be a serious jazz band here, totally against the spirit in which the group began. Definitely worth a listen, but not their best work... Soft Machine Seven: Last album with original organist Mike Ratledge, a really good prog jazz-rock fusion album. Still, it seems as though Jenkins ended up taking over artistic control of the group, and turning it into something completely different. They should have changed the name after this! (P.S. Jenkins writes and plays sappy new age music now, i.e. De Beers diamond commercials and Adimeus) Yes, the Holdsworth band definitely had its moments, but it is certainly not stuff I can listen to now. The earlier albums definitely stand the test of time! I bought Vol. 2 in '69 and ended up buying all the other albums pretty much as they came out...There are some good live recordings with the 69-72 bands, notably 'Live At the Paradiso'. So after 30 odd years I can still enjoy Vol. 1 & 2 (great to have on 1 CD!), Thirds, Fourth, plus don't forget Robert Wyatt's solo work, Rock Bottom, End Of An Ear, Shleep _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec\\\'s requested Date: 10 Aug 2000 20:18:08 -0700 Soft Machine Third: The expanded 'jazz' Machine with Elton Dean sax and 2 other horn players, one 'song' per side, this was definitely their peak moment, ..... _______________________________________________ This is true. If you only get one, get Third. Seven is the second one you must have. Then if you want more, most of the live recordings released over the last several years are gloriously delightful. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Re: Luc Ferrari Date: 11 Aug 2000 00:09:42 EDT hey, um. i have the musicdisc version of Presque Rien, I couldn't actually find it at OtherMusic, I had to go to Kim's Video. The "versions" of the piece are really very different, though not unrelated. and to find any of them on CD would be worth purchasing. The Musicdisc version also has Music Promenade (i believe that's the title, and it's on that Ohm 3-cd set) which is a very nice cut-up piece of concrete, that is nowhere near as smooth and subtle as Presque Rien. His distribution is awful. I really don't think it's fair that it's so hard to find his music and Parmegiani's. Even Schaffer and Henri's works are particularly hard to afford and find in non new-york record stores, being that most of them are released on French Labels. Ferrari has a release on Blue Chopsticks that I found to be interesting, but not as particularly moving as his other work, yet it's easier to find. His Tzadik cd is worth checking out, there is a cd of piano works that are very impressive, called Piano Piano, and my second favorite (to Presque Rien) is Danses Organiques, it's absolutely amazing and unique. A cinema for the ear as it says on the cover..I don't really know how to describe this one at all, repetition, concrete sound, voices, and many of Luc's well-known themes come into play in it, in the liner notes there is a comment about Luc being considered an "erotic" composer, and the reply being he is a pornographic composer, pretty much sums it up. p.s. tell bjork to email me. from, matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band. Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:49:00 +0200 Some of the Dense Band recordings are recorded for Intakt, a very small swizz label. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 4:08:56 PM, you wrote: Stephen> Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with Stephen> in the late 70s/early 80s. They both appear to have been reissued on cd by Stephen> Moers Music, albeit at import price. I would very much appreciate any Stephen> background info., or simply a hearty recommendation would probably do it. Stephen> Cheers! Stephen> - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:43:59 +0200 I am a Vandermark fan since i heard him last summer in Saalfelden. A few months ago I heard him with the DKV trio, a group featuring Vandermark, Kent Kessler and Hamir Drake. They were one of the greatest ensembles I ever heard. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 6:32:38 AM, you wrote: Artur> Hi Philozorners, Artur> I don't remember if Ken Vandermark was discussed here, but since he is Artur> one of my recent discoveries, I'd like to read some opinions. I have Artur> "Simpatico" and "Design in Time", both excellent records. What to look Artur> for next? What about his live performances? I know he plays a lot in Artur> Chicago, where he created a scene around him - is he popular among Artur> NY-listeners? Is he as un/known? Artur> __________________________________________________________________ Artur> Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl Artur> NP: Vandermark 5 "Simpatico" Artur> - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: masada live in sevilla 2000 (tzadik) Date: 11 Aug 2000 09:55:17 +0200 hi boys and girls. i finally received my copy of "live in sevilla" two days ago. i'm also one of those guys/girls who has all the masada releases. a bit sad, isn't it...? well, not really... is this really the best masada cd ever? i don't know if i'm capable of making such a judgement. but what i do know is the following: it definitely is a great cd! at least amongst the best masada releases. every player is in excellent shape, the soloing is fantastic, and there's a certain magic happening. i particularly like jz's playing on this one. patRice np: masada, live in sevilla 2000 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: masada live in sevilla 2000 (tzadik) Date: 11 Aug 2000 18:51:48 +1000 > but what i do know is the following: it definitely is a great cd! at > least amongst the best masada releases. every player is in excellent > shape, the soloing is fantastic, and there's a certain magic happening. > i particularly like jz's playing on this one. yes certainly, however i was a bit disappointed by the promised seven-minute baron solo. i had to listen through the whole cd a few times before i realised where it was. unfortunately that track, apart from being mostly dedicated to drums, is also the only track which has a really obvious mistake (zorn's calling of the second part of the 'head'). baron's playing is great, but that bit throws it off slightly... oh, and also, he only really solos for 5 and a bit minutes of the track, not 7 : ) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: thehodgsons Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:03:15 -0400 Artur, I agree DKV Trio is the shit. I have the Live & Wels and DKV with Joe Morris. Both are excellent. I just ordered the other available discs from forced Exposure along with Peter Brotzmann's Die Like A Dog Quartet. Anyone have any comments on that one. Dwayne PS- Artur, did you get anything in the mail from me yet? Get back to me at my other address. Tim Blechmann wrote: > > I am a Vandermark fan since i heard him last summer in Saalfelden. > A few months ago I heard him with the DKV trio, a group featuring > Vandermark, Kent Kessler and Hamir Drake. They were one of the > greatest ensembles I ever heard. > > PEACE > > Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de > > Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 6:32:38 AM, you wrote: > > Artur> Hi Philozorners, > > Artur> I don't remember if Ken Vandermark was discussed here, but since he is > Artur> one of my recent discoveries, I'd like to read some opinions. I have > Artur> "Simpatico" and "Design in Time", both excellent records. What to look > Artur> for next? What about his live performances? I know he plays a lot in > Artur> Chicago, where he created a scene around him - is he popular among > Artur> NY-listeners? Is he as un/known? > > Artur> __________________________________________________________________ > Artur> Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl > Artur> NP: Vandermark 5 "Simpatico" > > Artur> - > > - -- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:39:18 EDT Check out Vandermark's latest- Spaceways Incorporated: Thirteen Cosmic Standards By Sun Ra & Funkadelic (Alavistic). This is a killer trio with Vandermark, Nate McBride and Hamid Drake. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Graves Subject: Osaka, anyone? Date: 11 Aug 2000 09:19:05 -0400 (EDT) This is a long shot, but I was wondering if any of y'all were familiar with the Osaka/Kansai area music scene in Japan, and knew of any particularly good places for noise/experimental/ improv live music or any good record stores dealing in the same genres. I'll be in that area this fall, and I know there is a really hopping music scene there, what with Boredoms, Eye, Otomo, and others based there. I just need to find it... My only luck so far has been hearing about a club called "The Bear" co-managed/owned by Yamamotor. Any and all information appreciated. Thanks, Jamie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: tortoise Date: 11 Aug 2000 09:52:39 -0400 I've been thouroughly enjoying 4 Tortoise discs: TNT, Millions Living Will = Never Die, Untitled and the Remix one and have couple of ?s for the = zornsters... Is there another full length that is now out of print (saw = it listed in an 1999 Thrill Jockey catalog but not on their web site.) = Also, whats up with those two Japanese imports (seem to be Untitled & = Millions Living.. discs repackaged) that go for between $25 -$30 at shops? = Are they double CDs, contain extra tracks, just inflated import prices? Two more ?s (feeling needy today) on related side projects:=20 I'm currently looking for the Pullman CD, which I think is a side project = by Tortoise & friends? Any feedback good/bad? Any thoughts out there on the soundtrack that Tortoise members participated= in? Damned if I can remember film's name, although Sea & Cake members = are also on it? Vocals at all? =20 A related recommendation / shout out to the side project Brokeback, which = is too cool. Lo-fi ambient Tortoise if ya can dig, with some help from = StereoLab buddies! Thats it for today's queries - happy listening=20 Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joslyn Layne" Subject: RE: Vandermark & Die Like a Dog Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:12:26 -0400 i second the recommendation of DKV's, live in Wels & Chicago. it really captures how great they are- very fiery, all-inclusive performances. i also really enjoy their album with Fred Anderson, also on Okkadisk. for whatever reason, i don't get into many of the Vandermark 5 albums, and i haven't heard much off of the newest one to know yet. but i can heartily recommend the following things-vandermark: anything by the DKV Trio, Simpatico, Steam [atavistic], Design in Time [delmark], and any of the AALY releases [Mats Gustafsson's trio + Vandermark]. being a fan of both Sun Ra and Funkadelic, what i've heard off of the Spaceways Inc. sounds great, there is also a new Ayler tribute or Ayler-based project on Knitting Factory called Witches & Devils. in all, Vandermark's been busy, i'd say. can't wait to see Vandermark 5 and DKV Trio on the same bill here in Michigan at Edgefest in October. as for Die Like a Dog, i have listened to them all and, if i had to pick, my favorites are the first two FMP releases, Die Like a Dog and Little Birds Have Fast Hearts, No.1. Saw the group (with trumpeter Roy Campbell instead of Toshinori Kondo since c.'98-- wonder why) earlier this year and can only say that Hamid Drake and William Parker never cease to amaze and the two together in a group is indescribably astounding. i'll stop before the hyperbole starts to really gush forth, but DKV and Die Like a Dog are among my favorite working groups, so i couldn't help but sing a little bit of praise! joslyn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark Date: 11 Aug 2000 07:23:34 -0700 Don't miss the Ken Vandermark Five's TARGET OR FLAG (Atavistic ALP106CD). Stellar. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: zorn's blowing Date: 11 Aug 2000 07:36:37 -0700 (PDT) I have noticed that zorn has been playing a lot better the past three or four times I have seen him live. The recent reports from sevilla masada is that his playing is top notch. I wonder what he has cooking up that he is getting back into such good shape with his playing? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: zorn's blowing Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:10:32 -0700 jason tors wrote: I wonder what he has cooking up that he > is getting back into such good shape with his playing? > If you're thinking what I'm thinking, then you're thinking "Classic Guide to Strategy, Vols. 3-5." It would be nice, wouldn't it, but perhaps best not to hold one's breath. William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: RE: Vandermark & Die Like a Dog Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:26:05 CDT I'll have to third, or fourth----forth!----Joslyn's and others' recommendations of at least some of Vandermark's projects. Seeing DKV live with Fred Anderson (who is super, super fine---as dignified, humorous, and generous with his spiderweb solos as you could ever desire...the comparisons with Ornette aren't unwarranted, though I've felt that the similarity is more in the spirit and humor that comes from the juxtaposition of "cells", repetition, etc., almost the same effect as sampling and cuts in hip-hop [basing this on my own rather sub-literate familiarity with hip-hop, but I think of Terminator X, ELP or whoever does DJ work with COmpany Flow, Premier, etc etc] but without the radical abruptness of John Zorn's or [speaking of germinating cells] Tim Berne's playing) at the (Re)Soundings Festival in Atlanta a couple years ago was a tremendous experience, with Vandermark memorably creating the better part of a searingly energetic solo out of a single altissimo shriek. The DKV live double album is much more interesting---IMHO---than either BARAKA (studio, Okkadisk) or the limited edition LIVE album, which are the only two others I've heard. Hamid Drake, for me, _had_ to be experienced live, had to be seen to be believed; I suspect the same is true of people like Paul Lovens. I'll send another post about percussionists, though. Now to... Peter Brotzmann, Fred Hopkins, and Hamid played a long improvisation which was just _searing_. The groove absolutely gripped them all at times, and Brotzmann veritably _danced_ in place while blowing possessed Texas (by way of Bavaria?) blues. The bombs Drake would drop under Brotz's playing were so perfect, so _logical_ in retrospect, that more than a few times the entire section of the audience I was in almost rose to their feet: arms fluttered high like pidgeons---we shouted at them, we were helpless. It was an evening of maximum R&B with so much more than blowing at stake, just undiluted love for the music. Which I suppose belated brings me to my point: the same chemistry applies to the Die Like a Dog Quartet, one of my favorites among jazz's working groups. I agree with Joslyn about the DIE LIKE A DOG and LITTLE BIRDS HAVE FAST HEARTS (vol. 1) being my favorites; I think Kondo's live electronics were my first taste of the possibilities of electronics in an improvised setting, outside the confines of a studio. At any rate, those two records are terrific and are quite a bit more varied and interesting to me than anything else I've heard from Brotz (with possible exceptions of the Chicago Octet/Tentet and the unbelievable LIVE IN BERLIN 1971). Essential starting music for "energy" free-jazz, and a great way out from punk (I'm guilty of a little evangelism, though now I'm hooked on punk stuff, so I suppose it's more like Catholicism...) Geez, I suppose I should journal or somthing. Sorry for the long message! P.S. It's been a little while since the Ken Vandermark/Paul Lytton double album ENGLISH SUITES came out. Are there any more opinions about it? Cheers: avanti! -----s NP: Jim O'Rourke, EUREKA (I can see how he would be pissed at smug "indie kids"---as he calls them---thinking all he was up to was kitsch; there is clearly so much more happening on this record. Which is gorgeous, BTW.) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Your Imaginary Friend) Subject: Re: tortoise Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:40:36 -0600 >I've been thouroughly enjoying 4 Tortoise discs: TNT, Millions Living Will >Never Die, Untitled and the Remix one and have couple of ?s for the >zornsters... > Is there another full length that is now out of print (saw it listed in an 1999 Thrill Jockey catalog but not on their web site.) Yep, the first remix album, _Rhythms, Resolutions and Clusters_ - reworkings of tracks from the first (self-titled) album. Also, whats up with those two Japanese imports (seem to be Untitled & Millions Living.. discs repackaged) that go for between $25 -$30 at shops? Are they double CDs, contain extra tracks, just inflated import prices? Sort of a common deal for Japanese pressings of contempo stuff: since imports can actually be cheaper than the domestic releases there, the Japanese versions are often augmented with bonus tracks to make them more enticing to the consumer. I don't know about the first album, but _Millions now Living..._ has three bonus tracks, two of which comprised their out-of-print Duophonic 12" - some of their best work, IMHFO. The Japanese _TNT_ features a Nobukazu Takemura remix of the title track (haven't heard it). >Any thoughts out there on the soundtrack that Tortoise members >participated in? Damned if I can remember film's name, although Sea & >Cake members are also on it? Vocals at all? _Reach the Rock_ - very Tortoise-y, as John McEntire did most of the soundtrack. With cuts by Tortoise, Polvo, The Sea and Cake, and Dianogah - the Sea and Track track has some pretty inobtrusive vocals; otherwise it's all instrumental. Jon M. _________________________ Radio Free Norman 96.7 FM http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: tortoise Date: 11 Aug 2000 11:56:22 -0400 >Is there another full length that is now out of print (saw it listed >in an 1999 Thrill Jockey catalog but not on their web site.) Also, >whats up with those two Japanese imports (seem to be Untitled & >Millions Living.. discs repackaged) that go for between $25 -$30 at >shops? Are they double CDs, contain extra tracks, just inflated >import prices? These indie bands always have so many releases it's hard to keep track of. Luckily for you I keep track of Tortoise's. The only full lengths that I consider their "albums" are "Millions...", "TNT", and the eponymous one. The remix one is full length but it actually a compilation of a bunch of 12" remix vinyls. The Japanese imports have extra tracks and remixes on them, not to be found elsewhere. There is "The Digest Compendium of the Tortoise World" which is somewhat of a compilation disc for Japanese release that contains some of their early 7" material (Mosquito, Gooseneck, etc.), some released material form the s/t record, as well as some otherwise unreleased (to my knowledge) remixes (one by Steve Albini). The "Millions...", and "TNT" Japanese releases also contain extra tracks but I don't know what they are. They are not double CDs. Your best bet on these is eBay or Gemm.com. Oh yeah, there is also something called "Rhythms, Resolutions & Clusters" which apparently was released in the US but is OOP now as far as I can tell. Check this page for good, useful info: http://brainwashed.com/tortoise/discog.html. >I'm currently looking for the Pullman CD, which I think is a side >project by Tortoise & friends? Any feedback good/bad? I got this and I'm not to excited about it. It's acoustic music and I think it's just OK. You don't need to go out of your way to hear it. >Any thoughts out there on the soundtrack that Tortoise members >participated in? Damned if I can remember film's name, although Sea >& Cake members are also on it? Vocals at all? "Reach the Rock". Great soundtrack record, one of my favorites. It's mostly a John McEntire record. He scored, performed, and recorded most of the material on the record. Really, really good stuff. Pretty mellow. There is one track each by Tortoise, The Sea and Cake, Dianogah, Bundy K. Brown, and Polvo. Highly recommended though I heard the film is no good. Damn. Get indie on us and I miss all this work that I should be doing. Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: knit fac west Date: 11 Aug 2000 12:13:30 -0500 (CDT) well, the LA times reported yesterday that the knitting factory west opened that day (august 10th), but they did not indicate who was playing. furthremore, i can't find any indication anywhere in the LA times of who might be playing there - the knitting factory isn't even listed in the jazz section (or the pop section or...) of the LA times' 'calandar' section. so...anyone have any idea what's going on at the knitting factory west? whoever was supposed to do advertising for them really screwed up - or maybe they're hoping people will just show up because it's the oh-so-legendary-given-reports-from-musicians-that-have-played-ther *knitting factory*? (cf., john lurie's letter to the LA times, posted here a while back). in LA and wondering if there might actually be music worth going to see for a change, whit William W. Schonbein Philosophy-Neuroscience-Psychology Program Department of Philosophy Washington University St. Louis, MO, USA 63130-4899 http://artsci.wustl.edu/~wwschonb/ whit@twinearth.wustl.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hywel Davies Subject: cora Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:19:58 -0700 (PDT) anyone any details of the forthcoming tom cora cd on Knitting factory? also, opinions of the new Joey Baron cd and Ellery Eskelin's "ramifications" would be welcome...thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re: Brotzmann Date: 11 Aug 2000 17:20:59 -0000 < Peter Brotzmann's Die Like A Dog Quartet. Anyone have any comments on that one. One of the best groups I've ever experienced! Up there with Ornette & Prime Time, Sun Ra, and of course, Masada. The new edition with Roy Campbell on trumpet is an amazingly solid, focused, out on the edge, hard blowin' post-apocalyptic quartet...and Hamid Drake swings like no one else, that cat is amazing! Everyone came away from their recent gig at the Vancouver Jazz Fest realising they'd just witnessed something unique. Check 'em out at any cost! _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Baron, Eskelin (was Re: cora) Date: 11 Aug 2000 13:30:35 -0400 >also, opinions of the new Joey Baron cd and Ellery >Eskelin's "ramifications" would be welcome...thanks. What Joey Baron CD? If ramifications is the 5tet (Black/Parkins trio + 2) then I'll say simply that it's good. If you like the trio's records, then you'll like this one. Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: cora Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:39:36 -0700 On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Hywel Davies wrote: > > anyone any details of the forthcoming tom cora cd on > Knitting factory? You mean that there is another one (besides the recently released IT'S A BRAND NEW DAY - LIVE AT THE KNITTING FACTORY)? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: knit fac west Date: 11 Aug 2000 13:41:30 -0500 Whit Schonbein wrote: > well, the LA times reported yesterday that the knitting factory west > opened that day (august 10th), but they did not indicate who was playing. > furthremore, i can't find any indication anywhere in the LA times of who > might be playing there - the knitting factory isn't even listed in the > jazz section (or the pop section or...) of the LA times' 'calandar' When I phoned him with similar questions about a week ago, Dorf told me that the club would be operating as of now, but doesn't really formally open to the public until September 16 or thereabouts. Before that, it's supposedly just a series of private parties, industry functions and the like. When they actually do open, there will definitely be a big media splash. Right now I think they're just quietly "playing the club in" after all the delays. Supposedly such acts as Dave Douglas, Sonic Youth and even Ornette are booked for dates coming soon. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Scott Colley, "Metropolis," 'The Magic Line' (Arabesque) - nice trio with Chris Potter and Bill Stewart - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Non-Zorn: Gelb-Bickley-Zitt at DMG Sunday Date: 11 Aug 2000 14:36:54 -0400 Just a moment to toot my own horn: This Sunday at 7 PM, Tom Bickley and I (of the ensembles Comma and Gray Code) will be performing with shakuhachi player Phil Gelb at Downtown Music Gallery in NYC. Expect unexpected combinations of winds and voices. I look forward to the possibility of meeting some of the NYC contingent there. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Date: 11 Aug 2000 17:17:54 -0400 For those in New England; Masada will be playing the Newport Fest(in Newport, of all places) this sunday. further info at http://festivalproductions.net/jvc/newport/schedule.shtml - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 11 Aug 2000 16:36:48 +0200 I liked several of them. 3 is legendary, but perasonally i liked the 4 (especially) and 5 better. The albums without Wyatt were generally worse, had less personality. The 6 is not a bad album, but I don't listen to it . I had an album called 'Softs', wihich is quite worthless IMHO: a kind of early mahavishnu rip-off. Seriously boring. There were also great live albums. I had borrowed a 'live at the BBC' from the times of 3, and it was GREAT! Worth recommendation is also Wyatt's Matching Mole (that pronounces in a way that makes similiar to french 'machine molle' - ie soft machine). I 've heard an album them once, and it was really worth attention. There's also an album by Carla Bley, European Tour 1977, that features some ex-SM memebers (Hopper, Dean). It's really a great album, I recommend it very seriously. Marcin Gokieli - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark Date: 11 Aug 2000 18:02:57 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, artur-via-zorn-list-wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 06:32:38 +0200 > From: "Artur Nowak" > Subject: Ken Vandermark > > I don't remember if Ken Vandermark was discussed here, but since he is > one of my recent discoveries, I'd like to read some opinions. I have > "Simpatico" and "Design in Time", both excellent records. What to look > for next? What about his live performances? I know he plays a lot in > Chicago, where he created a scene around him - is he popular among > NY-listeners? Is he as un/known? he unexpectedly received a MacArthur 'genius' grant of us$256,500 recently, so sombody was aware of him... in my experience, live V5 shows can be impressive. there are a couple "official bootlegs" floating around, recorded live at the empty bottle in chicago and somehow 'let free' by the band, but hte real fun is seeing them. if you don't have the brotzmann tentet/octet discs on okka disc, then that's a good place to hear more vandermark (and the rest of the 5). finally, just today i stumbled on a (new?) V5 disc called "burn the incline". It's on Atavistic, and i can't find a copyright notice anywhere on either the packaging or the discs themselves. the disc came with a "limited edition" disc of the V5 playing vandermark's arrangements of 'classic' free jazz tunes by the likes of ornette coleman, anthony braxton, sun ra, eric dolphy, cecil taylor...first impression: sounds good to me... whit np: V5 - bonus live 'free jazz covers' disc in 'burn the incline' by the V5.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Kayser" Subject: Brotzmann/Die Like a Dog Date: 11 Aug 2000 19:28:25 EDT I will add the second volume of Little Birds to essential Brotzmann/Die Like a Dog. The second volume contains material from the same two performances represented on Volume 1. The first DLAD with a nod to it's namesake Mr. Ayler, is not to be missed. An extension of this group is Brotzmann's Tentet. The second manifestation of his tentet involves the core of Vandermark's Chicago mates: Kent Kessler, Fred Londberg-Holm, Jeb Bishop, Mars Williams, and Michael Zerang. Kondo has also joined in on occassion, as has the fifth DLAD Roy Campbell. The three CD Tentet on OKKA is essential, and though Brotzmann is the "leader" it is a group effort in all ways. Composing credits are given all around, and though it is Brotzmann style high-energy stuff, he certainly does not dominate. Less essential is the new one titled Stone, recorded at Victoriaville but much less adventurous than the 3 CD set. Another recording similar in style is Marz Combo featuring twin guitars of Caspar B and Nicky Skopelitis as well as Kondo, Parker, Anton Feir and Paul Rutherford. Also on FMP. Alan Kayser ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Subject: Re: Vandermark Date: 11 Aug 2000 19:40:08 -0400 been lurking on this discussion; wanted to see what people had in mind for vandermark recommendations. you MUST check out the NRG Ensemble 'This Is My House.' ken vandermark is a guaranteed good listen, pretty much, but this particular recording is stellar. esp. in light of what he has done since, i have to say nothing comes close. very powerful and energetic stuff. the NRG Ensemble comes from an original group led by hal russell, but has made some very fine music since. the one to check out is 'This Is My House.' genre- bending, thermonuclear intensity. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 11 Aug 2000 21:19:26 EDT In a message dated Fri, 11 Aug 2000 6:42:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Marcin Gokieli" writes: << I had an album called 'Softs', wihich is quite worthless IMHO: a kind of early mahavishnu rip-off. Seriously boring. >> I have a soft (oops...) spot for _Softs_, as it was a favorite of a long-departed friend of mine. Jon Ethridge makes his debut as a SM'er here, fresh off the heels of a stint in Darryl Way's Wolf. It's a most unique album in the SM catalogue, ranging in style from jazz/metal fusion to almost Berlin school-styled electronics. Not exactly one for the SM neophyte, admittedly, but one I enjoy on occasion. We miss you Tony...:-( -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: vent fact west Date: 11 Aug 2000 18:46:12 -0700 In LA and wondering if there might actually be music worth going to see for a change, whit _____________________ We're having fun just up the coast in Ventura: Another great concert bargain from the folks at pfMENTUM: Saturday, August 12, 8 PM, $5 Art City II, 31 Peking Street, Ventura, California For Directions: http://www.mapblast.com/ Jeff and Steuart Jeff Kaiser, trumpet and electronics Steuart Liebig, bass and electronics AND The Billy Mintz Quartet Billy Mintz: drums Jeff D'Angelo: bass Rob Lockhart: tenor saxophone Clay Jenkins: trumpet NOTE: This concert is inside (physically anyway) BUT there are no chairs. Please bring blankets, pillows, lawnchairs, et cetera to sit on. For more info: http://www.pfmentum.com While there, be sure to look at our other upcoming events. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ljova" Subject: God Speed Date: 11 Aug 2000 22:51:23 -0400 Anyone catch the "God Speed You Black Emperor" shows at the Knit today & yesterday? (I couldn't.) Thanks, Ljova -------- Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin L@Ljova.com http://mp3.com/Ljova/ "Do not fear mistakes - there are none." -Miles Davis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victor Debattista Subject: Odp: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 12 Aug 2000 14:57:46 +0200 (MET DST) I've not seen mention yet of the excellent live "Noisette", on Cuneiform records. This one is from 1970, and is from the band before 3 with plenty of reworked material from 1 & 2. Wyatt was still in the band at that stage, although, as in 3, the vocals do not feature very much. This one is very much worth hearing. Cheers Victor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re: Odp: Soft Machine rec\\\'s requested Date: 12 Aug 2000 14:37:18 -0000 >I have a soft (oops...) spot for _Softs_, as it was a favorite of a long-departed friend of mine. Jon Ethridge makes his debut as a SM'er here, fresh off the heels of a stint in Darryl Way's Wolf. It's a most unique album in the SM catalogue, ranging in style from jazz/metal fusion to almost Berlin school-styled electronics. Not exactly one for the SM neophyte... Just to clarify, for anyone wanting to delve into the Soft Machine oeuvre, after Soft Machine Seven, there were no longer any original members of the band left! The founding members were Daevid Allen (on to Gong), Mike Ratledge (sadly M.I.A.), Robert Wyatt (as mentioned, Matching Mole, and great solo albums), Kevin Ayers (interesting early solo efforts). Hugh Hopper came in to replace Ayers on Volume 2 (check out Hoppertunity Box). So regardless of how one feels about the post Seven Soft Machine albums (Softs, Live In Paris, Land of Cockayne, Bundles), these are not really S.M. albums! They should have changed the name, in fact at that stage the group had more in common with (Ian Carr's) Nucleus, i.e. Karl Jenkins & John Marshall. Certainly by that point, the original spirit of the group (which many feel was embodied by Wyatt) had disappeared.. _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "himry.suzuki" Subject: RE:Osaka,anyone? Date: 13 Aug 2000 08:19:02 +0900 I live in Nara Pref. near Osaka. I recommend Live Hause Big Apple in Kobe. Homepage is http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/i/big-apple/. To our regret this page is written in Japanese. There is Tower Records at Shinsaibasi in Osaka. Noise/experimental/improvisation cd is sold at the 4th floor. M. Suzuki > This is a long shot, but I was wondering if any of y'all were familiar > with the Osaka/Kansai area music scene in Japan, and knew of any > particularly good places for noise/experimental/ improv live music or any > good record stores dealing in the same genres. I'll be > in that area this fall, and I know there is a really hopping music scene > there, what with Boredoms, Eye, Otomo, and others based there. I just need > to find it... My only luck so far has been hearing about a club called > "The Bear" co-managed/owned by Yamamotor. Any and all information > appreciated. Thanks, > > Jamie > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: The Nu Band (Whitecage, Campbell), Fonda, Grassi) in Philadelphia, Wed, August 16th - Sweetnighter Productions Date: 12 Aug 2000 20:25:25 -0400 The Nu Band Wednesday, August 16th, 2000 - 9:30 pm -$12 Mark Whitecage (alto and soprano sax, clarinet, electronics) Roy Campbell (trumpet, flugelhorn, pocket trumpet) Joe Fonda (bass) Lou Grassi (drums) Plays and Players Club, 1714 Delancey St, Philadelphia -- Future concerts: Tyrone Hill - Deep Space Posse (Aug 30) Toshi Makihara & Wally Shoup (Sept 6) Khan Jamal (Sep 13) High Zero Pre-festival featuring Jack Wright (Sep 20) The Vandermark 5 (Sep 27) The Fonda/Stevens Group (Oct) -- For more information: http://home.att.net/~lankina/sweetnighter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Chadborne/Lehn Date: 13 Aug 2000 05:09:40 GMT From Forced Exposure: CHADLEHN: C Inside CD (GROB 205). "The virtuous string player Eugene Chadbourne and the ingenious synthesizer player Thomas Lehn met in the summer of 1990 to celebrate an impossible event: the confrontation of a banjo with an analogue EMS-synthesizer. Spontaneous improvisation in full completion: C Inside actually documents the first meeting of these master musicians." Can anyone who's heard this give a brief description? I have given up on trying to keep up w/ Chadbourne's new release avalanche. Also, doesn't that 1990 date seem a little odd? Anyway, thanks, WY ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Chadborne/Lehn Date: 13 Aug 2000 01:35:41 EDT In a message dated 8/13/00 1:10:57 AM, william_york@hotmail.com writes: << Can anyone who's heard this give a brief description? I have given up on trying to keep up w/ Chadbourne's new release avalanche. Also, doesn't that 1990 date seem a little odd? >> yep, 1990 is wrong, it's from 1999. as for the CD, I've only heard it once, but it's about what you'd expect, as weird as that sounds. it sounded to me like 2 solo concerts, one in each channel. I'm not much of a Chadbourne fan, so others can decide how it fits into his discography, but it's certainly one of the less essential Lehn projects. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kevin molony" Subject: henry threadgill Date: 13 Aug 2000 20:17:57 +0100 Some months ago threadgill's name was mentioned - A threadgill thread??? - and in the follow up someone mentioned that the old about time albums had been released on cd. I've trawled the net till my fingers are raw and can't find any mention or stockists. (All the usual suspects have been rounded up). Can a kind person please point a finger . Regards kevin m. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: henry threadgill Date: 13 Aug 2000 15:46:13 EDT In a message dated 8/13/00 3:22:48 PM, mooch@btinternet.com writes: << Some months ago threadgill's name was mentioned - A threadgill thread??? - and in the follow up someone mentioned that the old about time albums had been released on cd. I've trawled the net till my fingers are raw and can't find any mention or stockists. (All the usual suspects have been rounded up). Can a kind person please point a finger . >> www.cadencebuilding.com, search for threadgill. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? Date: 13 Aug 2000 21:29:05 -0400 >Perhaps you should just start with Volume One of the JSPs and then >decide how much further you want to go. If you add Volume Two you'll Steve's post was quite good but thought I'd add that the four JSPs are now available in a box set (one of those where they just took the original album and added a case) that I've seen in a large chain for $23, a little less than what I actually paid for the first two alone. JSP also has a dirt-cheap box of their Django. I'd also add that the "American Icon" set is about as good an overview of Armstrong's post-war career as we're likely to get. Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm "Where Do You Want to Go Today" Somewhere you can never take me! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Gardner" Subject: Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 14 Aug 2000 08:19:58 +0100 Does anyone on the list no anything about the huge new Rhino Box Set. The new biography of Rahsaan "Bright Moments" lists in its discography a 13 CD box set called the "The WInds in Bb" as a future release. It says it collects all the Atlantic recordings. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 14 Aug 2000 09:00:25 -0400 > Does anyone on the list no anything about the huge new Rhino Box Set. I seem to remember it being scheduled for late 2000 or early 2001 but that might be one of those false memories The Conspiracy planted to prevent me from testifying about the existence of leprechauns. & yes it's supposed to be the "complete" Atlantic recordings. Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: report from newport Date: 14 Aug 2000 07:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Masada was good, they played right before Cassadra Wilson, the crowd seem pretty receptive, tho a lot of people decided to sleep throughout the entire festival. Masada stuck to more lyrical songs, they were gentle on the crowd and didnt really break into too much emotional material. Dave and john were playing well together and really got the crowd grooving out to their sounds. They played what that audience was ready for, plus a bit more. Even though the weather was crappy it was still great to listen to the guys play on the newport harbor. I wonder who talked zorn into playing at newport? They scheduled masada and vernon reid at the same time. A lot of the younger crowd wandered over to the harbor tent to check out vernon reid's project with dj logic, the rock sounds were just a bit too much for members of the older generation, so they were checking out masada. For a brief time, the newport jazz fest was taken over by something everyone wasnt ready for. I commend the JVC folks for that. They also gave zorn a full page spread in their program, entitled The Revolution Is In Your Ear, The Newport Rebels. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: zorn's blowing / masada live 2000 cd Date: 14 Aug 2000 17:07:50 +0200 i can only say it again - check out the live in sevilla 2000. i listened to it several times over this past weekend. some of zorn's solos - absolutely fantastic, i think. i get shivers every single time i listen to them. patRice np: masada, live in sevilla 2000 jason tors wrote: > I have noticed that zorn has been playing a lot better > the past three or four times I have seen him live. The > recent reports from sevilla masada is that his playing > is top notch. I wonder what he has cooking up that he > is getting back into such good shape with his playing? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 14 Aug 2000 12:15:13 EDT This mammoth box set actually supposed to come out in 2001 on Label M, which is Joel Dorn's new imprint. skip heller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 14 Aug 2000 12:18:49 -0400 > This mammoth box set actually supposed to come out in 2001 on Label >M, which is Joel Dorn's new imprint. Any idea why Dorn left 32 Jazz? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens Date: 14 Aug 2000 09:19:22 -0700 "Knitting Factory: Quality, If Not Cutting Edge" http://www.calendarlive.com/calendarlive/calendar/20000814/t000076077.html ICP: Sept. 4 SunRa Arkestra: Sept. 12 Dave Douglas Quartet: Sept. 14 Rova Sax 4tet + John French: Sept. 24 Hope for LA? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark Date: 14 Aug 2000 12:56:20 -0400 >finally, just today i stumbled on a (new?) V5 disc called "burn the >incline". It's on Atavistic, and i can't find a copyright notice anywhere >on either the packaging or the discs themselves. the disc came with a >"limited edition" disc of the V5 playing vandermark's arrangements of >'classic' free jazz tunes by the likes of ornette coleman, anthony >braxton, sun ra, eric dolphy, cecil taylor...first impression: sounds good >to me... It's their new CD. The first 1000 come with the bonus CD of "covers." I picked up "Spaceways Incorporated" the other day, a trio of Vandermark, Chris McBride (b), and Hamid Drake (d) doing the music of Sun Ra and Funkadelic. It's great! Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens Date: 14 Aug 2000 20:14:19 -0700 > ICP: Sept. 4 Wow. The Insane Clown Posse is playing at The Knit? Never would have guessed. Cheers, Nirav -- OnNow- Henry Threadgill- Too Much Sugar for a Dime "Survival is not possible if one approaches his enviornment, the social drama, with a fixed, unchangeable point of view- the witless repetitive responce to the unpercieved."- Marshall McLuhan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens Date: 14 Aug 2000 22:35:16 EDT In a message dated Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:22:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Nirav Soni" writes: << > ICP: Sept. 4 Wow. The Insane Clown Posse is playing at The Knit? Never would have guessed. >> Ohhh gawd...nevermind me...just cleaning up the iced tea that shot out my nose... -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hywel Davies Subject: Defunkt on cd? Date: 15 Aug 2000 05:15:47 -0700 (PDT) anyone know if the Defunkt album "thermonuclear sweat" will ever appear on cd? also, anyone an opinion on the (chicago?) band Isotope 217? i heard a good track on the radio recently,i think the cd was called "who stole the i walkman?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Tolento" Subject: Eyvind Kang's NADEs Date: 15 Aug 2000 15:32:13 GMT I have enjoyed Eyvind Kang’s Tzadik releases "7 NADEs" and "Theater of Mineral NADEs" immensely, as well as the "Sweetness of Sickness" album. I haven’t heard "The Story of Iceland" yet but I’m looking forward to getting a hold of it eventually. Any comments on the new release? Even more exciting than his impressive, often insane playing are the hidden concepts behind his compositions. I get the impression there’s a vast framework being built. With repeated listenings I hear brief connections throughout his work that hint at something B I G. My question then is, what exactly is a NADE? Apparently Eyvind himself hasn’t revealed much. Here’s the best clue I’ve found so far. Taken from www.sonarchy.org/studio/aspfeatures/kang2.html "Some NADEs are contained within other NADEs, some are very short, others longer. In performance. some NADEs will use film and dance as visual corollary." There are 23 NADEs in all, however very few of the NADEs have been composed yet. With his ASP grant, Eyvind set out to record and mix the first seven NADEs, transforming them from concepts into "living NADEs." For the recording of the NADEs, an ensemble was formed, comprised of 3 violins, cello, flute, trumpet, trombone, acoustic bass, harpsichord, electric guitar, a vocalist and narrators speaking in Japanese and French. Several of the NADEs were improvisational in nature, taking inspiration from sketches Eyvind drew yet bearing similar rhythmic structures to the highly composed NADEs.” Can anybody add any more to that? This important message has been brought to you by your sharp-witted friends and colleagues at Empty Life Publishing, crafters of superior post-underground comic bookery for the disturbed and disillusioned. http://emptylife.netfirms.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Defunkt on cd? Date: 15 Aug 2000 10:55:59 -0700 At 5:15 AM 8/15/00, Hywel Davies wrote: >also, anyone an opinion on the (chicago?) band Isotope >217? i heard a good track on the radio recently,i >think the cd was called "who stole the i walkman?" > I haven't heard "I Walkman" yet, but have heard their first 2 CD's, neither impressed me greatly. But I did see them live last year, and they were terrific: straight-up Miles-ish fusion with a lot of energy, and the reason I didn't like the CD's was that they were generally pretty low energy. On a related note, I've been really liking the Chicago Underground Duo's "Synesthesia" disc lately. CUD is Isotope trumpetter Rob Mazurek and drummer/percussionist Chad Taylor. This record has a lot of really nice use of analog synths combined with acoustic improv, similar to Herbie Hancock's Sextant, but with a smaller group. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" Subject: classic cobra snipet query Date: 15 Aug 2000 22:04:51 +0200 I was listening to the Hat Hut Cobra 2LP again after what sounds like an eternity, and I was wondering if anybody could post what symphonic-like music record marclay is throwing in midway through side A. My first guess was Mahler but it's probably rather someone like Weill... Stephane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: korean music - kim suk chul? Date: 15 Aug 2000 15:58:09 CDT KOREAN MUSIC - more than once, someone has mentioned a Korean music, though the music sounds like it might not be "traditional" in the common sense. Is the name Kim Suk Chul? Could someone correct me on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or outlets? Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would be most welcomed. Thanks in advance, ----s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: Beck and the Boredoms Date: 15 Aug 2000 14:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Okay, this has probably been talked about before, but I just joined the list; Does anyone know if Beck's new ablum, "Midnite Vultures," features the Boredoms on the hidden track? I'm torn, myself, because Beck usually indulges in extended hidden tracks (similar to his latest), but this one sounds in style like old Boredoms and in production like new Boredoms... and Beck thanks Eye and the Boredoms in the liner notes, and Eye does the artwork... I hope this isn't a stupid question. [long live evil gnol] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul? Date: 15 Aug 2000 23:21:57 GMT >From: "Kristopher S. Handley" > >KOREAN MUSIC - more than once, someone has mentioned a Korean music, > though the music sounds like it might not be "traditional" in the > common sense. Is the name Kim Suk Chul? Could someone correct me > on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or > outlets? Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would > be most welcomed. Kim Sook-chul--hojok (piri)--is a Korean national treasure (such treasures are given a number by the government). As I'm sure everyone knows, his work was sampled on Ground Zero's fabulous Consume Red. Other recommendations: Samulnori is absolutely essential. their best stuff though is on Korean labels run by the chaebol (check out Samsung, SK, etc.). They're a traditional Korean percussion ensemble playing rhythms of the folk and farming traditions. One can hear these instruments at any given time at all universities around Korea. I can make other recommendations regarding improv artists if you give me a bit more time to pull my resources together. If you can't find any CDs, let me know. I live in Seoul and can get most of everything. The traditional performances are often on local TV, and I can make tapes if you're interested. Bill ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul? Date: 15 Aug 2000 22:47:49 EDT In a message dated 8/15/00 4:59:00 PM, thesubtlebody@hotmail.com writes: << Is the name Kim Suk Chul? Could someone correct me on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or outlets? Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would be most welcomed. >> the Kim Suk Chul CD I have is amazing, Shamanistic Ceremonies Of The Eastern Seaboard (JVC). a real eye-opener, sounding somewhat like an incredible lost free jazz record from the early seventies. highly, highly recommended if you're lucky enough to find it. <> are there a lot of Chul CDs available? I scoured NYC and the WWW a while back, and didn't come up with much. I'd love to hear more... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: RLW-Tulpas Date: 15 Aug 2000 23:04:51 EDT I just wanted to mention this 5 CD set again, since I've been gradually making my way through it again over the last week. it's a 1997 project by German composer/sound artist Ralf Wehowsky, and features contributions from 50 artists, everyone from Ryoji Ikeda to Rehberg and Bauer to Aube to John Duncan to Christoph Heemann to Merzbow, on and on. but it never sounds like a compilation or a tribute record, far from it. each of the five CDs was ordered by Wehowsky with a specific concept in mind, and the whole project is pretty flawless. fans of the recent wave of electroacoustic improv and Kevin Drumm specifically should make it a priority to pick this up. Drumm was greatly influenced by Wehowsky, which Kevin would be the first to tell you. the two actually have a collaborative CD coming out on RLW's label, Selektion (www.selektion.com), in the near future. anyway, it's 6 hours long and 32 bucks at Anomalous (www.anomalousrecords.com). Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul? Date: 16 Aug 2000 08:49:41 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Mittwoch, 16. August 2000 01:21 > Other recommendations: Samulnori is absolutely essential. their best stuff > though is on Korean labels run by the chaebol (check out Samsung, SK, etc.). > They're a traditional Korean percussion ensemble playing rhythms of the > folk and farming traditions. actually, there is more zorn-related content here! thee was a '96 project of samul nori with the swiss group singing drums (pierre favre, lucas niggli, roberto ottaviano, michel godard) together with tom cora - a great idea, and unfortunately only a one-off project, although the Basel concert was great (and taped, and once a potential release). Stephane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: korean music Date: 16 Aug 2000 10:37:26 +0200 Besides SamulNori, another astonishing traditional korean music is P'ansori singing. It is a vocal art that would be an equivalent to a traditional popular opera. Except that in P'ansori, the singer is alone with a hand drummer, and sings all the roles. For example, the classic P'ansori piece "Chunnyang" (an equivalent to "Romeo and Juliette") by Korean National Treasure Kim So-Hee is long enough to fill a 6CD box. Yes, one singer alone, 6 CDs... I find in P'ansori emotions as intense as with Flamenco Puro singing (or even more intense ?), with an extra oriental twist that makes it furthermore really weird to occidental ears. As weird as some free improv, maybe. You might have already heard P'ansori if you've seen the beautiful korean movie "Sopyonje" by Im Kwon Taek (this was broadcasted on french TV a few years ago as "La chanteuse de P'ansori"). Or if you've heard of Zingaro's equestrial theatre, a previous show, "Eclipse" featured korean musicians, including a P'ansori singer... Recommendations, now - My first introduction to P'ansori was through the album "P'ansori - Korea's Eric Vocal Art & Instrumental Music" (1999), featuring a few tracks by Kim So-Hee. It's on WEA/ATLANTIC/NONESUCH and does not limit itself to P'ansori but also includes instrumental pieces. So I think it's a good introduction to traditional korean music in general. It can be found anywhere. - Then you can try any album by Kim So-Hee (I directly headed to the 6CD Chunnyang, but you don't have to !!!). - Ahn Sook-Seon did also beautiful things, not limited to the P'ansori art. Then, two places to go: - to order CDs (relatively cheap, but less and less traditional music available): http://www.koreapop.com/ (used to be iodo.com) - for low-quality sound samples: http://www.wa.gov/art/fa/Korean%20p'ansori%20musical%20features.htm Hope it can help. Pascal Cortes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Logic? Date: 16 Aug 2000 11:21:25 +0200 (MET DST) Anyone have the name and label of any CDs released by DJ Logic? Thanks in advance, Stephen ---------------- Richard Pettersson Department of History of Science and Ideas Ume=E5 University S-901 87 Ume=E5, Sweden Phone: +46 90 786 99 38 Telfax: 046 90 14 33 74 E-mail: Richard.Pettersson@histstud.umu.se - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Logic? Date: 16 Aug 2000 11:30:57 +0200 DJ Logic Website: http://www.djlogic.com/ (you can buy the Project Logic CD on this website). Otherwise the label for the Project Logic CD is: Ropeadope (http://www.ropeadope.com/) Pascal At 11:21 16/08/00 +0200, you wrote: >Anyone have the name and label of any CDs released by DJ Logic? Thanks in >advance, Stephen > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: chango spasiuk Date: 16 Aug 2000 12:08:18 +0200 Any idea where I can order Chango Spasiuks 'Polcas de mi tierra'? Thank you - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Trumpet for beginner's (NON ZORN RELATED) Date: 16 Aug 2000 08:28:53 -0400 Hello list, The last couple of months I've been wanting to learn to play the trumpet, so I was wondering if there is somekind of BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO TRUMPETS in the internet where I can get information on prices, what should I buy, what I shouldn't get, what I need, etc. Thanks very much (please, response privately) Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: korean music Date: 16 Aug 2000 15:02:25 +0200 By the way.... if any of you Zorn addicts heard about a videotape of that movie with subtitles (french, english or spanish), I've been looking for one desperately for 2 years. I was told by the producer that videotapes are only available in korean. So if one of you recorded it when it was broadcasted, please, e-mail me privately. The movie is "Sopyonje" by Im Kwon Taek. Spellings may vary depending on source. Was broadcasted on french TV a few years ago as "La chanteuse de P'ansori". Thanks a lot (and sorry for non zorn content) Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Logic? Date: 16 Aug 2000 10:53:41 -0700 At 11:21 AM 8/16/00, Stephen Fruitman wrote: >Anyone have the name and label of any CDs released by DJ Logic? Thanks in >advance, Stephen Project Logic, on Rope-A-Dope records, w/ Melvin Gibbs, John Medeski, Graham Haynes, Ribot, and many others. Parts of the record are great, parts are a little too happyjazz for me. Ths band is very good live, though. > > > > > > >---------------- > >Richard Pettersson >Department of History of Science and Ideas >Ume=E5 University >S-901 87 Ume=E5, Sweden >Phone: +46 90 786 99 38 >Telfax: 046 90 14 33 74 > >E-mail: Richard.Pettersson@histstud.umu.se > > > >- ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: classic cobra snipet query Date: 16 Aug 2000 19:24:46 -0400 At 10:04 PM 8/15/00 +0200, Stephane Vuilleumier wrote: >I was listening to the Hat Hut Cobra 2LP >again after what sounds like an eternity, and I was wondering >if anybody could post what symphonic-like music record marclay >is throwing in midway through side A. My first guess was >Mahler but it's probably rather someone like Weill... No idea here, sounds like film music to me, but for those with the CD, it's on the studio version, the opening of track 4 (Moderato). -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hugo Linares" Subject: RE: chango spasiuk Date: 16 Aug 2000 21:34:30 -0300 Hi, Accordion extraordinaire Chango Spasiuk's "Polcas de mi Tierra" was released by Acqua Records, an Argentine label. Their Email address is: acquarec@infovia.com.ar Spassiuk's Web Page is www.changospasiuk.com.ar Try on line: www.zivals.com Hope this helps, Hugo Linares PS: If you can't get it, let me know privately. -----Mensaje original----- De: dekater Para: zornlist Fecha: Miércoles 16 de Agosto de 2000 07:10 AM Asunto: chango spasiuk >Any idea where I can order Chango Spasiuks 'Polcas de mi tierra'? > >Thank you > > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Joey Baron - We'll soon find out... Date: 17 Aug 2000 06:52:35 -0700 (PDT) For those of you who own the album before this one, "Down Home," you will know what to expect. Although I find this album to be a bit more mature, defined, and the ideas are stronger this time around. Nice art work too. The playing has improved as well. It sounds like everyone is supremely comfortable and the solos are pleasant. Joey has some groove oriented solos too, which were really entirely absent from the "Down Home" recording. But, really, how can one go wrong with this line-up.... (frisell, blythe, carter, baron) -Theo ===== -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: Joey Baron - We'll soon find out... Date: 17 Aug 2000 16:18:25 +0200 Correct me if I am wrong, but Bruce from Downtown Music Gallery mentionned in one of his newsletter that he will receive two new cds by Joey Baron next week: -Killer Joey (his new band) -A new release by his band with Frisell, Blythe and Carter. So does anyone on this list know something more on the latter one? Is this allready the third cd by this outfit? Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten NP Haunted House, live at DGM (Cd-r release... very lo-fi but great shape) -----Original Message----- Sent: donderdag 17 augustus 2000 15:53 For those of you who own the album before this one, "Down Home," you will know what to expect. Although I find this album to be a bit more mature, defined, and the ideas are stronger this time around. Nice art work too. The playing has improved as well. It sounds like everyone is supremely comfortable and the solos are pleasant. Joey has some groove oriented solos too, which were really entirely absent from the "Down Home" recording. But, really, how can one go wrong with this line-up.... (frisell, blythe, carter, baron) -Theo ===== -That which is Theodorus "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: JAZZ NOTES FOR THURSDAY, 8/17/00 (Sun Ra News) Date: 17 Aug 2000 13:27:04 EDT Thought this might be of interest to some of the Ra fans on this list... << jazz-notes Thursday, 17 August 2000 4:46 (ET) Jazz Notes: Goings on in the jazz world By KEN FRANCKLING, United Press International (snip) On the recording front... Pennsylvania-based Evidence Music is preparing a series of five CD releases due September 26 of rare Sun Ra recordings, including a two-CD boxed set of unreleased material. The series will include "When Angels Speak Of Love" by Sun Ra & His Myth Science Arkestra, "Pathways To Unknown Worlds/Friendly Love" by Sun Ra and His Astro Infinity Arkestra, and three projects by Sun Ra and his Arkestra. They are "Greatest Hits: Easy Listening For Intergalactic Travel," "Lanquidity" and a two-disc set called "The Great Lost Sun Ra Albums: Cymbals & Crystal Spears." Evidence has been working on the series since issuing its award-winning Sun Ra compilation "The Singles" in 1996. The bandleader, composer and keyboardist known as Sun Ra claimed to be an extraterrestrial from the planet Saturn. Actually born Herman "Sonny" Blount in Birmingham, Ala., in 1914, he studied music at Alabama A&M University and became a big-band leader in his hometown. Eventually, he moved to Chicago, where he wrote arrangements for Fletcher Henderson, change his name to Le Sony'r Ra, and start his first "Arkestra" with saxophonists and bandmembers-for-life John Gilmore, Marshall Allen and Pat Patrick. While he left the planet in 1993, the Sun Ra Arkestra continues to perform under the direction of Marshall Allen. Ra's music has influenced musicians ranging from George Clinton to Phish. -- Copyright 2000 by United Press International. All rights reserved. >> =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens Date: 17 Aug 2000 18:41:04 GMT > > ICP: Sept. 4 > >Wow. The Insane Clown Posse is playing at The Knit? Never would have >guessed. Well... ICP also = Instant Composers Pool, the Dutch big band w/ Misha Mengelberg et al. I'm sorry if I am missing the sarcasm here but that is most probably the ICP they're referring to. WY ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Berne's (L)oops Date: 17 Aug 2000 15:49:40 -0400 I caught (L)oops last night at Tonic. (L)oops was billed as Tim Berne's electonic project and consisted of Berne (as, bs), Tony Malaby (ts), Tom Rainey (d), Craig Taborn (el. keys), and David Torn (guitar, samplers, effects, electronics, etc.). The first set was an hour long free improv, no compositions. It was just OK. I don't think it worked well. I only saw the first set, I left before the second. Davd Torn had samplers in addition to his guitar and he had access to the other musicians' instuments (via mics) and he sampled them and processed them like in Evan Parker's electro-acoustic music. That was really the only interesting part. The low point, for me, was when Craig Taborn lost control of some keyboard sound that he was generating. He was so engrossed in some other sounds he was making that he didn't notice this horrible white noise gaining volume and power as time passed. It was so bad that I noticed a few members of the audience holding their ears. David Torn looked around inquiringly to find the source of the noise, presumably wondering if he himself was making it. He realized that it was coming from the keyboard amps a while before Craig did. Finally Craig noticed it and turned it down. I have to say that even though Torn contributed most of the interesting material throughout the set, there was very little of it and I personally think that Torn was much of the reason I didn't enjoy it as much as I could. When he wasn't sampling other players (which was relatively rare) he was making very unguitarlike noises with his guitar and many pedals, which is ok, except that I didn't really enjoy those particular noises in the surrounding context. On the other hand, Rainey was great again, as he always is. There were a few 'solo' sections where Tim or Tony would play with the other guys taking a back seat. Those sections were nice. I won't speak for others, I will only note that I saw many of the people in attendance for the first set not stay for the second. You win some, you lose some. I look forward to hearing the potential of this group realized. Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rob.allaert@charity.nu Subject: _______steve beresford------- ~ Date: 17 Aug 2000 05:02:41 +0200 Zorn-agains, Can anyone give some info on Steve Beresford's Cue Sheets. Is this as good as the online one minute previews suggest ? _ Rob ......<..... || http://www.frontstage.com/rob "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing". ________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: stolen instrument Date: 17 Aug 2000 19:51:29 EDT Dear friends: Sorry to bother everyone, but my guitar was stolen today from my apartment in the Silverlake district of Los Angeles. If anyone finds themselves in any place where used instruments are sold, kindly be on the lookout for a Mossman dreadnought accoustic guitar (roundhole), with a rosewood neck and a mustard yellow top. The back is very scratched up, and it has an endpin with a 1/4" phone jack (for plugging into an amp). The tuning pegs are gold plate, and the pickguard is black. The frets are in need of recrowning, too (i.e. they are worn, especially in the first seven frets). The butt-end of its black hardshell case has a blue bumpersticker that reads I LOVE ("love" spelled by a heart) DOWNEY, a sticker on the body area that says TIKI NEWS, and one over the neck area that says DON'T FORGET WINONA. I apologize for the inconvenience, but it is a one-of-a-kind instrument, and, above all an instrument I treasure for personal reasons. Please forward this message to anyone you think may be helpful. The loss of this instrument is hard to accept. Thank you -- skip heller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: yet more dream syndicate Date: 17 Aug 2000 21:08:26 -0400 http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/vibes_feature3.html A detailed look at the controversy but not entirely accurate (for instance if something is public domain then a fair use defense is irrelevant). Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: _______steve beresford------- ~ Date: 17 Aug 2000 21:58:15 -0400 rob.allaert@charity.nu wrote: > > Zorn-agains, > > Can anyone give some info on Steve Beresford's Cue Sheets. Is this as good > as the online one minute previews suggest ? Don't know what's in the sample, but I like this album a lot. Some Balkan influence, a dash of "Signals for Tea" type art-song. Very solid all-around. Brian Olewnick NP: Blitzstein, Airborne Symphony - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Berne's (L)oops Date: 18 Aug 2000 03:45:18 EDT The second set was much, much better. I enjoyed the first set, but it was a bit dense for my tastes. For the second set, everyone just seemed full of creative ideas, the sound mix was better, and they all seemed to be enjoying playing. I'm totally into Torns concept of sampling and looping the other live musicians. Although he actually didnt do as much of this as i was expecting; he did it to a much greater effect at the previous Torn/Berne/Previte gig last year. Five is about the maximum number of musicians i like to hear playing improvised music at the same time. I would love to see this lineup again. Tony Malaby was a surprise for me, I'd only seen him once before, playing tunes, but he's got a great mind for playing improvised stuff. A similar lineup of this group will be touring Europe next may, only Marc Ducret instead of David Torn, and they'll be playing compositions. -Jody - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens Date: 18 Aug 2000 09:13:23 GMT Hey, >Well... ICP also = Instant Composers Pool, the Dutch big band w/ Misha >Mengelberg et al. I'm sorry if I am missing the sarcasm here but that is >most probably the ICP they're referring to. Yes, without a doubt. If both Misha and Bennink are recording in USA around the same time, it makes alot of sense. May I also insist that everybody in that area go to this concert, especially fans of Insane Clown Possie. They are one of the most exiting bands on the planet, and you might not get the chance to see them in the US anytime soon again... And please drop us a comment about it, if you go... ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Fruitman Subject: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 18 Aug 2000 12:31:41 -0300 Another Norwegian who doesn=B4t know the meaning of the word "purism": Stian Carstensen, _Farmers Market_ (Winter & Winter). Combines jazzy, Gypsy accordian and sundry Bulgarian musicians on their domestic acoustic instruments, with a tight combo of Norwegian jazz musicians and occasional wailing guitars and tape loops and a dash of pickin=B4 and grinnin=B4 straig= ht outta the Ozarks via Constantinople. Once, a small Bulgarian women=B4s choir pokes its head in. Some klezmer. Some ragtime. A remarkable piece for tabla, clarinet, bass and funky wah-wah guitar. Never a hint of that cloying aftertaste that sometimes lingers when someone gets the brilliant idea of combining "ethnic" music and jazz or rock. Rather, there is exhuberance, experimentation, melody, and a highly-developed sense of humour - or what do you say about a Beatles-inspired guitar tune called "Les Paul, More John"? Think Pachora versus Charms of the Night Sky versus Nils Petter Molv=E6r versus the Masada Chamber Ensemble. Another gorgeous W&= W package, too, featuring a booklet full of beautiful b&w photos of Gypsies from Uzbekistan, the Ukraine, Khazakstan and Turkmenistan. This is the kind of album you don=B4t want to write about to describe, but rather just send everybody you know a copy. All the best, Stephen Bj=F6rn Olsson, Inst. f=F6r id=E9historia, Ume=E5 universitet 901 87 Ume=E5 tel. 090-7867982 fax 143374 e-post: bjorn.olsson@idehist.umu.se - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 18 Aug 2000 12:03:03 -0500 Agreed, fully. One of the very best records I've heard so far this year = - and one with its tongue planted firmly in its cheek. Nice assessment of the rather uncategorizable music, BTW. I thought of Pachora, Ivo Papsov, drum'n'bass, Headhunters... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com Stephen Fruitman wrote: > Another Norwegian who doesn=B4t know the meaning of the word "purism": = Stian > Carstensen, _Farmers Market_ (Winter & Winter). Combines jazzy, Gypsy > accordian and sundry Bulgarian musicians on their domestic acoustic > instruments, with a tight combo of Norwegian jazz musicians and occasio= nal > wailing guitars and tape loops and a dash of pickin=B4 and grinnin=B4 s= traight > outta the Ozarks via Constantinople. Once, a small Bulgarian women=B4s = choir > pokes its head in. Some klezmer. Some ragtime. A remarkable piece for > tabla, clarinet, bass and funky wah-wah guitar. Never a hint of that > cloying aftertaste that sometimes lingers when someone gets the brillia= nt > idea of combining "ethnic" music and jazz or rock. Rather, there is > exhuberance, experimentation, melody, and a highly-developed sense of > humour - or what do you say about a Beatles-inspired guitar tune called > "Les Paul, More John"? Think Pachora versus Charms of the Night Sky ver= sus > Nils Petter Molv=E6r versus the Masada Chamber Ensemble. Another gorgeo= us W&W > package, too, featuring a booklet full of beautiful b&w photos of Gypsi= es > from Uzbekistan, the Ukraine, Khazakstan and Turkmenistan. This is the = kind > of album you don=B4t want to write about to describe, but rather just s= end > everybody you know a copy. > > All the best, Stephen > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Bj=F6rn Olsson, > Inst. f=F6r id=E9historia, > Ume=E5 universitet > 901 87 Ume=E5 > tel. 090-7867982 fax 143374 > e-post: bjorn.olsson@idehist.umu.se > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linares Hugo Subject: RE: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 18 Aug 2000 13:16:58 -0300 > rather uncategorizable music, BTW. I thought of Pachora, Ivo Papsov, > drum'n'bass, Headhunters... > > > By the way, can anyone give any insight / comments on Ivo Papasov's discography? Thanks in advance. Hugo Linares - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens Date: 18 Aug 2000 10:42:03 -0700 >Hey, > >>Well... ICP also = Instant Composers Pool, the Dutch big band w/ Misha >>Mengelberg et al. I'm sorry if I am missing the sarcasm here but that is >>most probably the ICP they're referring to. > >Yes, without a doubt. If both Misha and Bennink are recording in USA around >the same time, it makes alot of sense. The ICP is also going to be in Portland, OR, on Sept 2nd, so it does make sense. > >May I also insist that everybody in that area go to this concert, especially >fans of Insane Clown Possie. They are one of the most exiting bands on the >planet, and you might not get the chance to see them in the US anytime soon >again... Y'know, an ICP vs ICP face-off could be pretty entertaining, Bennink would probably fit right in with the insane clown dudes :-) ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Better Late Than Never Date: 18 Aug 2000 10:33:04 -0700 Did Simon H. Fell's COMPOSITION NO. 30 get discussed to death here at the time of release? I just received it, and it won't leave the airwaves for a long time. Its combination of structure and freedom played on a wondrous combination of traditional, acoustic, electric, and prepared instruments is one of the most satisfying pieces of music I have heard in a long time. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Better Late Than Never Date: 18 Aug 2000 13:56:36 EDT In a message dated 8/18/00 1:42:09 PM, keith@pfmentum.com writes: << Did Simon H. Fell's COMPOSITION NO. 30 get discussed to death here at the time of release? I just received it, and it won't leave the airwaves for a long time. Its combination of structure and freedom played on a wondrous combination of traditional, acoustic, electric, and prepared instruments is one of the most satisfying pieces of music I have heard in a long time.>> yeah, it'd probably make my short list of best records of the nineties. I posted a rave review here sometime in '98, but I don't seem to have it saved anywhere. this list is archived somewhere, right? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: New Haino record review: Aihiyo Live Date: 18 Aug 2000 14:10:25 -0400 Hello folks on the Zorn list, Well, I have recently heard the new album by Keiji Haino's group, Aihiyo, titled "Live", released on PSF this past June. I haven't seen any reviews of it on this list so I thought I would submit my own. The disc features Keiji Haino (guitar, voice), Ikuro Takahashi (drums) and Masami Kawaguchi (bass). Takahashi was also the drummer for Fushitsusha on the last four releases but has since apparently "retired from music making". The material was culled from Aihiyo live performances in Japan mostly in the spring of last year. As with the previous Aihiyo album (untitled, Tokuma, 1998), the material is all cover songs. 1. Your eyes have the sparkle of 10,000 volts (original by Tatsuo Horiuchi) 2. 150 tons of dynamite (?) 3. Young fellows (?) 4. Be My Baby (Ronettes) 5. Vent your anger (Peter) 6. The rose has bloomed (Mike Maki) 7. The wind is weeping (Mops) 8. Satisfaction (Rolling Stones) 9. Soap bubble (?) I think that Haino fans might be leery of a cover album because what is interesting about Haino is his originality. A cover albums seems in contradiction to this. However, this is no ordinary cover album. The only song whose original I am familiar with is the Rolling Stone's Satisfaction. Haino's interpretation of it is liberal to say the least. It's a 14-minute anthem recognizable as Satisfaction in only a few spots, and then just for short riffs. In all of the songs, Haino's emotion is at the forefront. In all songs, Haino's artistic expression is in full gear. Through-out the disc has an amazing live sound of excellent quality, a trait which has not always been present in Haino's live albums, e.g. the Fushitusha releases on Blast First, Victo, and Charnel Music. I'd almost say it's enough to pick up this disc based purely on the excellent sound quality... At times, Aihiyo leans toward the sound of Haino's solo releases and seems more of an individual effort than Fushitsusha. At other times, the bass and drums are more prominent and the cd does sound a bit like Fushitsusha. But the difference between Aihiyo and the other projects is that Haino is constrained to work within (admittedly broad) parameters of the original songs. This constraint gives the Aihiyo album a bit of a more structured feel than solo or Fushitsusha releases. It's a different setting for Haino and it's one that he has worked to perfect. My gut reaction to the Aihiyo disc is that it doesn't hit the same heights that Fushitsusha or his solo work at its best does (a very high standard). On the other hand, the intention is different and upon repeated listenings, I am less and less apt to feel that this comparison is accurate or even meaningful. At any rate, the disc borders on the fantastic (and I do not make this statement indiscriminately). It's definitely worth checking out (as is the first Aihiyo cd) but this second one, coming off an independent label, is a much cheaper import. D. Keffer Site Maintenance Man An Unofficial Keiji Haino Website (Now An Official Keiji Haino Website, though I am keeping the old name) http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: tv trivia Date: 18 Aug 2000 14:07:51 -0500 clipd from a knight-ridder story: Copeland [stingz manager] says Sting, a one-time punk rocker still known for his environmental activism, never would have considered a television commercial a decade ago. It would have been dangerously close to "selling out," jeopardizing his artistic credibility to shill for a product. But today, Copeland observes, artists' attitudes have shifted towards "business is business." Since Nike opened the door with the Beatles' "Revolution" in 1987, the Who (Dell), the Rolling Stones (Microsoft), Nick Drake (Volkswagen), the Buzzcocks (Nissan), the Minutemen (Volvo) and Tortoise (Calvin Klein) are among the artists who have walked through it. ok, this is what i'm missing by not having a television? remind me not to get one. but still i'm curious... what are the minutemen and buzzcocks songs and how are they used? btw, it's a pretty good article, incuding quotes from tom frank, editor of the excellent journal 'the baffler,' and some guy from astralwerks. write me if you want the whole thing. or, for that matter, you can also write me for a copy of a story about the progress of the proposed bluegrass museum in kentucky. new threadgill band next month at the knit!!! kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nvinokur@aol.com Subject: Re: tv trivia Date: 18 Aug 2000 16:09:42 EDT Buzzcocks - what do I get - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: tv trivia Date: 18 Aug 2000 17:24:23 -0400 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > new threadgill band next month at the knit!!! Kurt (or anyone) Do you know who's in this band or, for that matter, if the band's name is pronounced "zooid" (Zoe-oyd) or "Zoo ID" (Zu-ay-dee)? Anal Threadgill fans need to know. Brian Olewnick (Still catching himself saying "am" instead of A-M-M.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Purple Trap Date: 18 Aug 2000 18:15:39 -0400 Hello list, Any comments on Purple Trap's _Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of Tranquility, Tangling The Prayer Called "I"_ It looks like it's somekind of Painkiller noise, is this right? Thanks for the info Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Purple Trap Date: 18 Aug 2000 19:21:59 EDT In a message dated 8/18/00 6:17:54 PM, nilugo@usa.net writes: << Any comments on Purple Trap's _Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of Tranquility, Tangling The Prayer Called "I"_ >> yep, it's a "power" trio of Haino, Laswell,and Rashied Ali. pretty wanky, badly recorded and/or produced, and probably the worst Haino disc I've ever heard. just my opinion... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: Joey Baron - We'll soon find out... Date: 18 Aug 2000 18:57:58 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Zorn List Digest wrote: > - -----Original Message----- > From: Theo Klaase [mailto:river_of_dogs@yahoo.com] > Sent: donderdag 17 augustus 2000 15:53 > To: Zorn List > Subject: Joey Baron - We'll soon find out... > But, really, how can one go wrong with this > line-up.... (frisell, blythe, carter, baron) I just saw this disc at rhino records here in LA yesterday. i thought it was interesting that joey baron's trio with ribot and medeski also plays most or all of the tunes on the disc, e.g., at their shows at yoshi's in san francisco last year (which was recorded by fans and is floating around). it's nice to hear the different renditions by the differing groups... whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: Purple Trap Date: 18 Aug 2000 20:12:56 -0400 >In a message dated 8/18/00 6:17:54 PM, nilugo@usa.net writes: > ><< Any comments on Purple Trap's _Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of >Tranquility, Tangling The Prayer Called "I"_ >> > >yep, it's a "power" trio of Haino, Laswell,and Rashied Ali. pretty wanky, >badly recorded and/or produced, and probably the worst Haino disc I've ever >heard. > >just my opinion... I think its a great meeting of Laswell & Ali, its just that neither seem to be playing with haino, nor he with them. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: Purple Trap Date: 18 Aug 2000 17:38:44 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > JonAbbey2@aol.com > In a message dated 8/18/00 6:17:54 PM, nilugo@usa.net writes: > > << Any comments on Purple Trap's _Decided... Already The > Motionless Heart Of > Tranquility, Tangling The Prayer Called "I"_ >> > yep, it's a "power" trio of Haino, Laswell,and Rashied Ali. pretty wanky, > badly recorded and/or produced, and probably the worst Haino disc > I've ever > heard. I second the motion. Haino goes wank wank wank. And Laswell goes bwomp bwomp bwomp. Granted, Haino has cranked out some pretty self-indulgent stuff, but there's a certain lunatic intensity that runs through the drone-and-shriek albums. In the case of "Decided," they don't seem to gel. I don't know, maybe they just weren't listening to each other. Part of my disappointment is the fact that the lineup should have made a killer album, but no. For a fantastic collab disc, the Haino/Baron/Cohen album will suffice... Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: tv trivia Date: 18 Aug 2000 22:29:18 EDT Surely someone must remember at least 4 or 5 years ago (maybe more) that Torture Garden tunes were used for at least two different products on TV? 'Shangkuan Ling Feng' was one of them, for sure, and I know there was another one as well, I believe. I wanna say maybe sneakers and/or video games were being advertised.... I'm not making this up, BTW -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Purple Trap Date: 18 Aug 2000 22:45:04 EDT I haven't heard this, but the general sentiment (negative) doesn't surprise me. 2 reasons: 1) Laswell's on it. His glubby sounding bass has made quite a few potentially good to great albums mediocre at best. The first Massacre, parts of Painkiller, and the first Praxis album are by far the best things I've heard including his involvement, and I suspect I like these because the main responsibility of the concepts/compositions are more attributable to other people: Frith, Zorn, and everyone else on the Praxis album, respectively. Most other things have his low-end mush and at least one example of that faux reggae thing he can't seem to get away from. 2) Tazdik has something like 20-40 albums come out per year. Even potentially great collaborations seem to be compromised due to the apprent need to just crank 'em out. I love everything I've heard of Fushitsusha and Keiji Haino, BTW. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Weird Little Boy Date: 18 Aug 2000 23:03:39 -0400 Can any one tell me about Weird Little (the Zorn, Patton, and Spurance collaboration)? As in who did the compositions/arrangements and why it is so expensive (more than most imports). Any other information about style or the songs themselves would be helpful. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Date: 19 Aug 2000 13:08:25 +1000 > Can any one tell me about Weird Little (the Zorn, Patton, and Spurance > collaboration)? As in who did the compositions/arrangements and why it is > so expensive (more than most imports). Any other information about style or > the songs themselves would be helpful. I think it is actually improvised, not written or arranged by anyone in particular. From memory, the stuff on there ranges from repetitive rocky stuff to ambient. Spruance has said it is one of the worst things he has ever been a part of, but it's not really _that_ bad a listen. It's certainly not worth the high price, but I found mine second hand and I think it was worth it, especially including the quite interesting artwork... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Avant Date: 18 Aug 2000 23:31:47 -0400 Does the label Avant have an official website with information on release, a online store, etc ? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: tv trivia Date: 18 Aug 2000 22:59:53 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 10:29 PM > Surely someone must remember at least 4 or 5 years ago (maybe more) that > Torture Garden tunes were used for at least two different products on TV? > 'Shangkuan Ling Feng' was one of them, for sure, and I know there was another > one as well, I believe. I wanna say maybe sneakers and/or video games were > being advertised.... Sega video game system, right? -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: New Zorn! Date: 19 Aug 2000 01:37:15 EDT John Zorn: Cartoon S/M=20 Passionate performances of John Zorn=E2=80=99s exciting chamber music by som= e of the=20 greatest European classical masters. Divided into light and dark, with one C= D=20 of quirky cutup compositions influenced by (among many other things) cartoon= =20 music and another from Zorn=E2=80=99s S/M "Torture Garden" period. Both CDs=20= conclude=20 with different versions of Zorn=E2=80=99s Jewish standard Kol Nidre includin= g the=20 world premiere recording of his version for clarinet quartet. Beautifully=20 produced by Dutch master musicologist Gert-Jan Blom. =20 not coming out till october, looks like the most promising release on Tzadik= =20 for the next couple of months. from, matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: tv trivia Date: 19 Aug 2000 04:45:32 +0200 > ok, this is what i'm missing by not having a television? remind me not to get > one. but still i'm curious... what are the minutemen and buzzcocks songs and how > are they used? We here in Europe also got the Microsoft ad with David Bowie's 'heroes' (the only way to hear Frippertronics on TV;-]) Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 19 Aug 2000 08:42:54 EDT In a message dated 8/18/00 12:19:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hulinare@bemberg.com.ar writes: << By the way, can anyone give any insight / comments on Ivo Papasov's discography? >> I only know of the two CDs on Hannibal. The second one, _Balkanology_ has some of the most insane time sigs I've ever heard, and equally amazing playing. It is an absolute must. To think that people *dance* to this music just kills me. This second CD was released, what- 10 years ago? He seems to have dropped off the planet... -- np: OST- Babylon (specifically, Aswad's dubbed-out classic "Hey, Jah Children") =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: tv trivia Date: 19 Aug 2000 08:50:36 EDT In a message dated 8/18/00 11:45:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << > Surely someone must remember at least 4 or 5 years ago (maybe more) that > Torture Garden tunes were used for at least two different products on TV? > 'Shangkuan Ling Feng' was one of them, for sure, and I know there was another > one as well, I believe. I wanna say maybe sneakers and/or video games were > being advertised.... Sega video game system, right? -Jesse >> Yeah, maybe. I don't think I'd be abel to identify the product(s) even if I heard it; it was quite a while ago. -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: living daylights Date: 19 Aug 2000 14:03:58 EDT Just recieved their CD, which was produced by Lee Townsend and feature Frisell. Anybody have any info on this group? skip heller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: living daylights Date: 19 Aug 2000 16:06:30 EDT living daylights: electric rosary liquid city records personnel: Jessica Lurie: woodwinds Arnie Livingston: bass Dale Fanning: drums, percussion with Frisell on four tunes produced by Lee Towsend my first (cursory) listen, it sounds sort of like an avant-y jam band. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 20 Aug 2000 08:47:04 +0200 > This second CD was released, what- 10 years ago? He seems to have dropped > off the planet... I heard him in Istanbul w. Yildiz Ibrahimova and Okay Temiz... _________________ Francesco Martinelli Lungarno Mediceo 10 56127 PISA ITALY email: fmartinelli@tin.it webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/ fax 0039 050 313 75 02 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Odp: tv trivia Date: 20 Aug 2000 21:21:48 -0400 On Sat, Aug 19, 2000 at 04:45:32AM +0200, Marcin Gokieli wrote: > We here in Europe also got the Microsoft ad with David Bowie's 'heroes' (the > only way to hear Frippertronics on TV;-]) To be pedantic for a moment: while it is indeed Fripp's guitar, I'd be quite amazed if it were Frippertronics, since it doesn't repeat in the way that Frippertronics do, and the stories I've heard of the session (that Fripp hooked up and put down the solo on a first take, without having listened to the song first) make no mention of the use of the double-tapedeck technology. Damn, that's a convoluted sentence,,, -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: Odp: tv trivia Date: 21 Aug 2000 00:32:28 -0500 At 09:21 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote: > >To be pedantic for a moment: while it is indeed Fripp's guitar, I'd be >quite amazed if it were Frippertronics, And isn't the version that Microsoft used for their ads the Wallflowers version? It seems to me I remember hearing the music in the ad and thinking 'cool - bowie' and then realizing it wasn't even his version. So it might not even be Fripp's guitar, much less the Frippertronics (which I believe he did not use on Bowie's album(s), but he did use with Gabriel and Daryl Hall). Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Gardner" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #13 Date: 21 Aug 2000 08:02:48 +0100 Following my request for info on the Rahsaan Roland Kirk Complete Atlantic box set. I contacted Rhino and got this reply. Richard, This is a Joel Dorn project and Rhino has no involvement in it. We have no idea what the release date may be. Sorry If Joel Dorn has left 32 Jazz. Where is this coming out? Richard Gardner - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: The Radio Cover Date: 21 Aug 2000 03:13:22 -0400 Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from. It looks remarkably like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle. Is there a connection? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stefan Verstraeten" Subject: the big gundown - reissue Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:42:24 +0200 Hello Just bought the reissue of the big gundown.... Why? The disc seems to have an improved sound quality.... Maybe on a 1000 dollar hifi system, but on my stereo, I can't hear the difference. Off course, the reason for purchasing the disc is because of the bonus tracks. There are 5 new songs (tracks 11 till 15). Keyplayers are feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista, hatori, saft, patton, bailey, dunn. I think that everyone on this list knows the distinctive ways that these persons play.... but THE surprise for me was the track featuring marc ribot - trevor dunn - joey baron - derek bailey. No, don't expect dereks' typical cluster playing.... but the same style on his tzadik record with tacuma and weston. Only this time, the track is much much noisier. It is great to hear ribot and baron play again in their 80's period: fat, noisy and dirty. Personally, this track only made the purchase ok NP Eugene Chadbourne: Pachuko cadaver Stefan Verstraeten stefan.annik@planetinternet.be - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: the big gundown - reissue Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:14:17 GMT Hello! Sounds very interesting! Can you give the titles of the new tracks? I can't seem to find a tracklist anywhere on the net... Thanks! ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Small FS list (non-Zorn) Date: 21 Aug 2000 05:45:36 -0400 I have the following items for sale that some on this list may be interested in. All prices _US $_. POSTAGE PAID within North America. Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged. If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER. $25 -- Christoph Heemann - "Invisible Barrier" US CD (Extreme: xcd019) = 1993 [Excellent Heemann release on Extreme. His first major solo out= ing (after the Robot 10") recorded in 1992. Long out of print.] $15 -- Cop Shoot Cop - "Consumer Revolt" UK CD (Big Cat) 1992 $35 -- H.N.A.S. - "Gegenst=E4nde Fallen Zu Boden" GER CD (Dom Elchklang= : dom ek 008) 1994 [Heemann & P. Li Khan w/ Andreas Martin, Frank Dommert and more. Material from 1986 - 89 ... from the "Bitte Werfen Sie Ihren M=FCll Aus Dem Fenster" LP, "Neue deutsche Post Avantgarde" comp LP, "Ciguri" comp LP, and the "Face To Face V.2= " LP (w/ Vox Populi). Digipak. Limited to 1000. Out of print.] $16 -- Miles Davis - "On The Corner" JAP CD (Sony Japan: srcs9125) 1998 [Japanese 1998 "Master Sound" series reissue (SBM) of 1972 class= ic in gatefold mini-LP sleeve w/ insert. Mint.] $25 -- Paul Sch=FCtze - "New Maps Of Hell" US CD (Extreme: xcd015) 1992 [First pressing on Extreme w/ original artwork. Feat. "A Soul Reports" not on the 1996 UK reissue. Long out of print.] $10 -- Scorn - "Lick Forever Dog" UK CD (Earache UK: MOSH 61) 1992 [Classic, dub-heavy, early material. Out of print.] $18 -- Stefan Tischler - "Excess Of Free Speech" CD (Extreme: xcd014) 1= 992 [Early release on the Extreme label. Out of print.] more at: [ http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/muse.html ] Thanks for looking. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dominic Lash Subject: Re: Purple Trap Date: 21 Aug 2000 14:04:23 +0100 Just to give a more positive slant on this album (which I enjoy a lot): It's interesting that Rich Williams describes it as a good meeting between Laswell and Ali, with Haino divorced from them, because Biba Kopf (I think), reviewing it in the Wire, said the same about it, except that he applauded the link between Haino and Ali, calling Laswell superfluous. I feel that all three players opt in general for a sort of angular interaction, preferring to allow complexities that can be understood on repeated listenings, rather than an easy corying of riffs or falling into rhythmic patterns. All the players have their strengths: Haino's voice, Laswell's distorted and envelope filtered parts, and Ali in general! Interstingly, I listened to this album soon after having seen Fushitsusha at the London Garage, and I felt that it stood up more to bedroom listening than much of the recorded Fushitsusha I have heard. Haino's guitar, in the largely un-effected style on Purple Trap, is less stunning than the full force of him live, but recordings of his wall-of-sound style can't really convey the emotional, sonic, and purely physical power his Marshalls generate. The (realative) delicacy of Purple Trap, I feel, stands up more to detailed home listening. That said, I don't think anything essential would have been lost if it had been only a single CD . .. Dom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: henry'n'haino (myra, carla...) Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:28:09 -0500 Brian O asked: Do you know who's in this band or, for that matter, if the band's name is pronounced "zooid" (Zoe-oyd) or "Zoo ID" (Zu-ay-dee)? Anal Threadgill fans need to know. spoke with henry friday night (he was checking out equal interest at tonic). i wish i could remember everything he told me about the line-up, but it was mostly names i didn't know. 5 or 6 piece including tony cedras, min xao fen, a cuban percussionist and someone playing oud (an oudist?). and, he said, it is pronounced zoe-id. also came up in a grandly social evening between sets at tonic was the carla bley record 'the elevator over the hill' or something. someone brought it up, others chimed in their love for, and leroy jenkins, standing there, modestly pointed out that he played on it. i remember that record coming up here before (brian again?). please: reviews, thoughts, info, and is it out on cd? (patrice?) and since i'm talking, equal interest. i feel this trio (melford/jenkins/jarman) is growing from a beautiful meeting of minds to something that could be a significant band that will be around for a while (or at least i hope so, after myra gets back from her 9 mos. studying classical composition in india). if you don't have the disc, get it. and then next year, go see them. it has also been said that... Part of my disappointment is the fact that the lineup should have made a killer album, but no. For a fantastic collab disc, the Haino/Baron/Cohen album will suffice... wow, i couldn't agree less... none of the three zornlabel releases rank among haino's best. the percussion one on tzadik is pretty unpopular, but i rather like it (although i rarely listen to it). the laswell/ali trio is what it is, a superjam. powerful if somewhat superficial. but i do enjoy it. the cohen/baron trio is, i think, easily the worst thing haino's released that i've heard (and i've got a pretty healthy collection). it's wretched, haino's accoustic playing leaves a guitarist to be desired and i think i'll go sell it. Stefan Verstraeten noted: NP Eugene Chadbourne: Pachuko cadaver interestingly enough, me too. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: henry'n'haino (myra, carla...) Date: 21 Aug 2000 08:36:25 -0700 Stefan Verstraeten noted: NP Eugene Chadbourne: Pachuko cadaver interestingly enough, me too. _________________________________ I started my day viewing the film footage of Trout-era Magic Band on the Grow Fins CD-Rom. For you SoCalifornians, pfMENTUM has Chadbourne booked at Ventura City Hall on Dec. 2, with Jeff Kaiser's Quintet opening. Details when the time approaches. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike White Subject: ono / comme des garcons / lindsay remixes Date: 21 Aug 2000 12:45:32 -0400 (EDT) I have just bought the separate Vol. I and Vol. II Comme des Garcons by Seigen Ono. I honestly have mixed impressions of it. I have read there is a 2XCD Japanese issue of Comme des Garcons which has remixes by Arto Lindsay on the second CD. Track listings for this are different than for each of the separate volumes I already own. Does anybody have information or impressions of the 2XCD issue, expecially the remixes? It appears available for a hefty price, so I'd like to know if anybody thinks it's worthwhile. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #14 Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:48:49 -0700 > From: Dgasque@aol.com > > << By the way, can anyone give any insight / comments on Ivo Papasov's > discography? >> > > I only know of the two CDs on Hannibal. The second one, _Balkanology_ has > some of the most insane time sigs I've ever heard, and equally amazing > playing. It is an absolute must. > > To think that people *dance* to this music just kills me. > To think that people can listen to this and *not dance* kills me! Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: some recent acquisitions (long) Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:58:28 -0500 (CDT) i'm on vacation, which means i let myself spend money, resulting in the purchase of (with biased opinions): uri caine - goldberg variations - this received some mention previously on the list. more 'variations' of classical music (this time bach) along the lines of the mahler project. more musicians and more variation on this one, although not as much extended 'jamming'. i like it better than the mahler probably because i don't like mahler that much but do like the goldberg variations, despite really liking the lineups on the mahler discs. my only bone to pick is one i've picked before (besides the packaging): Like usual, Caine puts the vocalists to relatively ineffectual use - David Moss mutters and babbles over some choral works that, in my opinion, would have been better served left untouched, and vinicius cantuaria mumbles some fake portgeuese lyrics over a brazilian variation that, like the 'bossa nova-ish' tune on the mahler discs, only serves to distract us from the wonderful miles'-60's-quintet-like interplay of the band. All of this would be nicer if there were any interaction between the vocalist and the rest of the band, but it just sounds as if the vocals were dubbed in later. and the 'dig it' variation - consisting of someone singing 'dig it, dig it, dig it over and over for the entire tune', is a waste of time - sounds like a weird al yankovic outtake. Why spend so much time arranging variations only to treat the vocals as an afterthought? The two tracks with poetry are nice, although one gets the feeling that 'fugue-ing' sadiq bey's reading in the studio was an afterthought (since the poem itself doesn't fugue - i hope i'm using the right term here). The two tracks with barbara walter singing are nice, as they actually have lyrics (i.e., a plan). Moss' contributions on some of the other tracks are more significant and work nicely. anyway, the amount of time ive spent complaining about the use of vocals is not an accurate indication of the amount of time occupied by vocal tracks on the discs themselves - most of the time is instrumentals. anyway, very nice music, overall. Cuong Vu - Bound - w/ jim black (d), jamie saft (keys), and stomu takeishi (elb). I am very happy with this album, as it is better than i expected (not that i really knew what to expect). The songs range from slow 'ballads' to 'funky' intense blowouts. Jim black's distinct sound is essential to the final product, and he does a great job; Saft's wah-wah electric piano lends the group a 70's-era sound, and this is supported (particularly in the slow tunes) by vu's composition style. Really impressed. Vu sings on one track and surprise to me, i even like that one. Stomu Takeishi on bass works out well, but for some reason his bass sound lacks sustain, which makes it quite percussive and thus it often fails to provide the basis for any chord changes (same as on Myra Melford's 'crush' disc, 'dance beyond the color'). I find myself wishing it were Jaco on bass at times...on the whole, though, very nice and i look forward to hearing more of vu and his compositions. Christian Marclay & Gunter Muller - Liveimprovisations - turntable and percussion/electronics duos. Pretty noisy, but full of wonderful (and humorous) moments. a short disc (~35 minutes) recorded live at various places in europe 1992 and 1993. lots of pops, crackles, etc, due to marclay, and complemented nicely by Muller. actually, i often can't tell who is making what noise. wish the disc were longer. Various artists vs. Disinformation - Al-Jabr - well, this one was an accident. I read the back "evan parker, jim o'rourke, lawrence casserley, mechos, simon fisher turner, tactile, and T:un[k] systems", and thought it was a group improv. Turns out it's a remix cd of 'electric power grid distortion noise' provided by someone or some group called 'disinformation'. after getting over my initial shock, it turns out the disc is pretty good. parker provides a 13 minute drone with deep bass distortion overlaid with multiple saxophone tracks; jim o'rourke's contribution is hilarious, as it takes a jab at rap music and it's deep booming bass sound (but it's a short contribution, only a couple of minutes).casserley's track is short, and sounds like his usual processed sounds as heard on the evan parker discs. The tactile track takes deep booming bass to new levels of deepness and boomingness (and the o'rourke track has no bass end at all, btw). Overall, a cohesive remix disc. not beat-oriented at all, btw. Vandermark 5 - Burn the Incline. Good stuff. Less of the psuedo-funky music that characterized their first two discs (haven't really listened to simpatico, so can't say). Strong playing all around as usual, with some nice free moments. My copy came with the bonus disc (are there really only 1000 of them? i see them everywhere i look), which is great. I haven't gotten to the cover of bowie's 'new york is full of lonely people', but i'm looking forward to it. Masada - live in sevilla - yes, it's good. not sure how to compare it to other masada releases, although zorn's playing does seem particularly good, if still full of the usual zorn-isms. I've listened to the first 4 or 5 tracks probably 10 times, but have yet to make it through the whole disc. Baron seems a little restrained and not as bombastic as usual. The rhythm section is tight as nails. Douglas is douglas - i think i like his playing more on the middleheim disc, or on the taipei disc. frank sinatra - come dance with me - my first sinatra album and still my favorite (along with @ the sands and sinatra and jobim). i think it's his first with billy may doing the arranging (as opposed to nelson riddle), and it swings. the cd version is augmented with 4 bonus tracks that are just as good as the rest of the disc. and the picture on the back always makes me think of jack nicholson in the shining - 'heeeeeeer's frankie!' happy monday, whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Biffle" Subject: Re: henry'n'haino (myra, carla...) Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:45:07 -0700 > also came up in a grandly social evening between sets at tonic was the = carla bley record 'the elevator over the hill' or something.=20 "Escalator Over The Hill... It's been a LONG time since I've listened to = that and sadly, I don't have a copy anymore. Which brings me to another = project Carla Bley was involved in... Any clues where I might find a copy? The Michael Mantler / Edward Gorey "The Hapless Child And Other Stories", = including Steve Swallow, Robert Wyatt, Terje Rypdal and Carla. Once = again... I have the vinyl somewhere, but it's misplaced from a move 2 = years ago and I'm really missing it. This is a real blowing session with = Terje really blazing everywhere. Lot's of great Robert Wyatt vocalizing as = well...=20 I'm trying to find available copies of the Ray Anderson, Christy Doran, = Hans Bennink titles "Azurity" and "Cheer Up". They're out of stock on = Cheer Up at the Cadence web site. Any leads anyone? Best, -Miko Biffle - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Purple Trap Date: 21 Aug 2000 13:37:44 -0400 Well, I figured I would add my two cents in on the recent commentary of the Haino/Laswell/Ali cd on Tzadik. The release has gotten a lot of negative press since it first came out in March of 1999. I think I may sounded an opinion in the Zorn list back then.) Anyway, having listened to the cd over the past year, I think that there are a couple fine gems on cd. The cd is over two hours long and there is at least 20 minutes or so of really listenable tracks. So, I don't think it is a complete wash, as some have indicated here on the Zorn list. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: hatart + anderson/bennink/doran + bley Date: 21 Aug 2000 13:10:31 CDT >From: "Mike Biffle" >"Escalator Over The Hill... It's been a LONG time since I've listened >to >that and sadly, I don't have a copy anymore. Which brings me to >another >project Carla Bley was involved in... Any clues where I might >find a copy? As far as I know, you can get this and almost every other ECM CD or LP from their Munich warehouse, at reasonable prices. I just succesfully ordered Mantler/JCOA/Cecil Taylor COMMUNICATIONS on CD, as well as Edward Vesala's LUMI---two discs I'd heard were way out of print. I suspect the remainders lie in wait in Munich. http://www.ecmrecords.com >I'm trying to find available copies of the Ray Anderson, Christy >Doran, >Hans Bennink titles "Azurity" and "Cheer Up". They're out of >stock on >Cheer Up at the Cadence web site. Any leads anyone? Try Jazz Record Mart in Chicago, http://www.jazzmart.com/jrm.home.htm I'll post the list of what they have left, simply because I think it might not be up-to-date on their site. Apologies for bandwidth usage. (I'm not at all affiliated with JRM, nor do I live anywhere near them. Just a helpful tip for record hounds. AZURETY and CHEER UP are both terrific records, BTW.) -----s JAZZ RECORD MART HAT ART SALE all discs are $6.99 unless otherwise listed 6001 Herbert Distel-Reise 6007 Habarigani-S/T 6013 Urs Leimgruber-Statement of Antirider 6015 Sato Michihiro-Rodan 6017 Fritz Hauser-Die Trommel & Die Welle 6034 Ton Art-Zu 6037 Fritz Hauser & Stephan Grieder-The Mirror 6038 Vienna Art Orchestra-Concerto Piccolo 6049 Urs Leimgruber-Ungleich 6060 Herbert Distel-Stazione 6064 Habarigani-Two 6067 Fritz Hauser-Pensieri Bianchi 6091 Urs Leimgruber/Fritz Hauser-L;enigmatique 6094 Maarten Altena Ens-Code 6095 John Cage -62 Mesostics: (2 CD's 13.99) 6110 Hans Kennel-Mytha 6111 John Cage- Atlas Eclipticales 6114 Kazuo Fukushima-Works for Flute and Piano 6116 Steve Lacy-Clangs 6123 Franz Koglmann-Cantos I-IV 6130 Galina Ustvolskaya-Compositions 2 6131 Mathias Spahlinger-Extension 1979/80 6133 Tom Johnson-Rational Melodies 1982 6138 Dave Burrell-Windward Passages 6141 John Cage-Winter Music 6143 Morton Feldman-Works for Piano 2 6144 The Bad Boys!- Henry Cowell,etc 6146 New York School Vol.2- Feldman,Brown,Wolff 6147 Earle Brown-Four Systems 6148 Scelsi,Byzantium,The Alchemists- Voxnova 6149 Urs Leimgruber, Roidinger & Hauser-Lines 6151 Hans Kennel-Mythohorns 2 6152 Westbrook-Rossini- Zurich Live 1986 -(2 CDs-$13.99) 6155 Ray Anderson, Han Bennik, Christian Doran-Azurety 6156 Christian Wolff-For Ruth Crawford 6157 Soviet Avant Garde 6159 John Cage-Ten 6163 Franz Koglmann/Lee Konitz-We Thought About Duke 61202 Morton Feldman-for Christian Wolf (3 CD's: $20.99) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: hatart + anderson/bennink/doran + bley Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:27:49 -0700 On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:10:31 CDT "Kristopher S. Handley" wrote: > > As far as I know, you can get this and almost every other ECM CD or LP from > their Munich warehouse, at reasonable prices. I just succesfully ordered > Mantler/JCOA/Cecil Taylor COMMUNICATIONS on CD, as well as Edward Vesala's > LUMI---two discs I'd heard were way out of print. I suspect the remainders > lie in wait in Munich. http://www.ecmrecords.com In fact, ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL is still in print and (at least in Portland OR) quite easy to find (two stores have it). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dann-Brown" Subject: Haino, Haino, and more Haino (and a little bit of PainKiller) Date: 21 Aug 2000 14:38:38 -0400 > the cohen/baron > trio is, i think, easily the worst thing haino's released that i've heard (and > i've got a pretty healthy collection). it's wretched, haino's accoustic playing > leaves a guitarist to be desired Even track 3 left you unmoved? The half-hour one? That track, to me, is one of Haino's most introspective pieces and I loved it throughly. The rest of the disc doesn't stand up as much, but I'd recommend the disc to anyone based on track 3 alone. Since the discussion lately has been about all the Haino Keiji albums we don't like - how about the albums of his that we do like? Personally, I go for Allegoricial Misunderstanding. That album never ceases to amaze me. Oh, and now that I'm thinking about it - is the Pain Killer live album Rituals out of print? I've been trying to aquire that for a little while without much luck. (You'd think it would have been included on the COMPLETE Recordings of Pain Killer...) Also, does anybody know if there are any recorded documents of Pain Killer when Buckethead was making guest appereances with the band? -Dann - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: hatart + anderson/bennink/doran + bley Date: 21 Aug 2000 14:33:53 EDT In a message dated 8/21/0 11:28:51 AM, you wrote: << In fact, ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL is still in print and (at least in Portland OR) quite easy to find (two stores have it). >> Actually, EOTH was out of print while ECM changed distributors and has now quietly come back into print (along with the rest of Carla's titles), but many stores (ie Tower) etc don't order a lot of back catalogue on artists like Carla Bley (as they do not get a lot of jazz radio play). Does anyone know if the restaging of it from about four years ago was recorded (legally or otherwise)? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: strange bedfellows Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:42:50 -0700 from towerrecords.com: Tower Shoppers who bought Escalator Over The Hill also bought: 1.) The Go-Betweens - Send Me A Lullaby 2.) Dave Alvin - Blackjack David 3.) The Meters - The Very Best Of The Meters 4.) James Brown - Funk Power 1970: A Brand New Thang 5.) Traffic - Feelin' Allright: The Very Best Of Traffic 6.) Neil Young/Crazy Horse - Zuma 7.) Jefferson Starship - At Their Best 8.) Black Sabbath - Mob Rules 9.) Jefferson Airplane - Volunteers 10.) Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: strange bedfellows Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:57:13 -0700 s~Z wrote: > from towerrecords.com: > > Tower Shoppers who bought Escalator Over The Hill also bought: > > 1.) The Go-Betweens - Send Me A Lullaby > 2.) Dave Alvin - Blackjack David > 3.) The Meters - The Very Best Of The Meters > 4.) James Brown - Funk Power 1970: A Brand New Thang > 5.) Traffic - Feelin' Allright: The Very Best Of Traffic > 6.) Neil Young/Crazy Horse - Zuma > 7.) Jefferson Starship - At Their Best > 8.) Black Sabbath - Mob Rules > 9.) Jefferson Airplane - Volunteers > 10.) Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear That can't be right... could there have been a band called the 13th Floor Escalators? William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: strange bedfellows Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:03:49 -0400 > > from towerrecords.com: >> >> Tower Shoppers who bought Escalator Over The Hill also bought: >> >> 1.) The Go-Betweens - Send Me A Lullaby >> 2.) Dave Alvin - Blackjack David >> 3.) The Meters - The Very Best Of The Meters >> 4.) James Brown - Funk Power 1970: A Brand New Thang >> 5.) Traffic - Feelin' Allright: The Very Best Of Traffic >> 6.) Neil Young/Crazy Horse - Zuma >> 7.) Jefferson Starship - At Their Best >> 8.) Black Sabbath - Mob Rules >> 9.) Jefferson Airplane - Volunteers >> 10.) Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear > >That can't be right... could there have been a band called the 13th >Floor Escalators? This is the Tower Records website we're talking about... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Slntwtchr@aol.com Subject: Re: Haino, Haino, and more Haino (and a little bit of PainKiller) Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:32:48 EDT >Oh, and now that I'm thinking about it - is the Pain Killer live album >Rituals out of print? I've been trying to aquire that for a little while >without much luck. (You'd think it would have been included on the COMPLETE >Recordings of Pain Killer...) yes, it's out of print. it took me a looong time to track a copy down. (btw - the box set is the complete studio recordings, which is why rituals isn't on it, although that other live disc was thrown in...) >Also, does anybody know if there are any recorded documents of Pain Killer >when Buckethead was making guest appereances with the band? there's at least one bootleg floating around from two sets they did at the knit in 1993, with buckethead on a few tracks... dave bill laswell, mick harris, eraldo bernocchi and lori carson discographies : http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: haino Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:54:54 EDT I've heard that Zorn has tried to get the rights back for the Painkiller Rituals recording without luck. I'm sure he'll reissue it when he is able. Luckily, I found one about a year ago in a New York City shop. It features another example of Zorn's infamous cover art. The live Painkiller bootleg with Buckethead is pretty cool. Bucket is introduced late in the set and provides some sparse support. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: strange bedfellows Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:22:22 -0500 Why not? I own records by James Brown, the Meters, Neil Young, Black Sabbath and Marvin Gaye as well as Escalator Over the Hill. I also enjoy that Jefferson Starship song "Jane" when it's on the radio. I suppose it's possible someone could like EOTH and the Go-betweens, whoever they are. Ralph NP(in my head): 2 Live Crew "Pop that Coochie" At 11:57 AM 8/21/00 -0700, William Crump wrote: list deleted >That can't be right... could there have been a band called the 13th >Floor Escalators? > >William Crump Robert Pleshar Head, Serial Orders University of Chicago Library 1100 E. 57th Street Chicago, IL 60637 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #13 Date: 21 Aug 2000 17:52:35 -0500 On Dorn's new label which launches in September, Label M. Believe someone's already pointed out (here or elsewhere, I can't remember) that this box is due sometime next year. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com Richard Gardner wrote: > Following my request for info on the Rahsaan Roland Kirk Complete Atlantic > box set. I contacted Rhino and got this reply. > > Richard, > This is a Joel Dorn project and Rhino has no involvement in it. We > have no idea what the release date may be. Sorry > > > If Joel Dorn has left 32 Jazz. Where is this coming out? > > Richard Gardner > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Haino, Haino, and more Haino (and a little bit of Date: 21 Aug 2000 18:20:17 -0400 At 02:38 PM 8/21/00 -0400, Dann-Brown wrote: > >Since the discussion lately has been about all the Haino Keiji albums we >don't like - how about the albums of his that we do like? My favorite Fushitsusha is the newish two-cd set on Paratactile, I saw it!, which has a track so long (80-some minutes) that it takes both cds, very noisy and *very* well recorded. PSF 15/16 (the second live one) is great too. I also like the Nijiumu that was included in Driftworks, and am very tempted to get the other one by this group. I have a hard time telling what instruments are being played, which kind of adds to the mystery of it all. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren Subject: re: The Radio Cover Date: 21 Aug 2000 20:08:21 -0400 MEEP! "&c." wrote: >Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from. It looks remarkably >like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle. Man, that Mike Patton has a nice ass. In not-so-stupid news, there's a fairly good recording of a Naftule's Dream concert that has appeared on alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootlegs in the last day or so. If anybody can tell me how it is that the seven files that make up the entirety of the show were encoded (WinAmp reports at least three different bitrates during the course of playback), I'd also be very interested in hearing a bit about the software and/or glitch involved. Oh, and while I'm at it... Velaires@aol.com wrote: >Actually, EOTH was out of print while ECM changed distributors and has now >quietly come back into print (along with the rest of Carla's titles) I've actually noticed a fairly impressive glut of used Carla Bley discs in the stores around here ("here" being just outside of Toronto) in recent weeks, and was wondering if there is any particular reason for this... is there any additional material that has been tacked on to these re-issues, or have the gods of casual musical exploration just decided to smile on me for a change? -me - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #15 Date: 21 Aug 2000 21:30:35 -0400 Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for me. His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to explore his other side. Thanks Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: re: The Radio Cover Date: 21 Aug 2000 21:32:35 -0400 Hello, >In not-so-stupid news, there's a fairly good recording of a Naftule's Dream >concert that has appeared on alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootlegs in the last >day or so. If anybody can tell me how it is that the seven files that make >up the entirety of the show were encoded (WinAmp reports at least three >different bitrates during the course of playback), I'd also be very >interested in hearing a bit about the software and/or glitch involved. Sounds like the files were encoded at variable bit rate. While I can't name a specefic software, most encoders have an option to encode at VBR. Please correct me if I am wrong though... Hope it helps, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #15 Date: 21 Aug 2000 21:32:21 EDT Get the newly remastered, expanded INTERSTELLAR SPACE! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Teichman Subject: Re: The Radio Cover Date: 22 Aug 2000 00:12:08 -0400 Isn't there a "Man Ray" signature on at least the back cover photo? At 03:13 AM 8/21/00 -0400, you wrote: >Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from. It looks remarkably >like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle. Is >there a connection? > >Zach > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: re: The Radio Cover Date: 22 Aug 2000 03:06:42 EDT In a message dated 8/21/0 5:07:07 PM, you wrote: << Oh, and while I'm at it... Velaires@aol.com wrote: >Actually, EOTH was out of print while ECM changed distributors and has now >quietly come back into print (along with the rest of Carla's titles) I've actually noticed a fairly impressive glut of used Carla Bley discs in the stores around here ("here" being just outside of Toronto) in recent weeks, and was wondering if there is any particular reason for this... is there any additional material that has been tacked on to these re-issues, or have the gods of casual musical exploration just decided to smile on me for a change? -me >> There doesn't seem to be much bonus tracking on the Carla's, save for the version of "Soon I Will Be Done With The Troubles Of This World" on DUETS. As for bonus tracks on EOTH, not likely, given that they really had an uphill (financial) battle to complete it. Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an all-Carla program) has any bonus material? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: the big gundown - reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 09:42:33 +0200 Hello, Here are the tracks and players: -The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista) -Macchie Solari (hatori, saft) -The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista) -Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron) -Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista) So, as you can see, unfortunately Zorn does not play along.... Best wishes, Stefan Verstraeten -----Original Message----- Sent: maandag 21 augustus 2000 11:14 Hello! Sounds very interesting! Can you give the titles of the new tracks? I can't seem to find a tracklist anywhere on the net... Thanks! ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: tv trivia Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:01:09 +0200 > > We here in Europe also got the Microsoft ad with David Bowie's 'heroes' (the > > only way to hear Frippertronics on TV;-]) > To be pedantic for a moment: while it is indeed Fripp's guitar, I'd be > quite amazed if it were Frippertronics, Of course... it just had the 'fat' frippertronics sound (which is great, btw). Crimson plays 'heroes' as the closing number this tour (Catch them if you can, they are great - they are just to start the US tour. There are large improvised sections which are simply incredible) > And isn't the version that Microsoft used for their ads the Wallflowers > version? It seems to me I remember hearing the music in the ad and > thinking 'cool - bowie' and then realizing it wasn't even his version. That would surprise me... I was sure that it was the original. Anyhow, the guitar had that fripp sound. (OK, so it could even turn out that it was a keyboard ;-)... I worte it was Bowie with fripp on frippertronics- first no frippertronics, then niether fripp nor bowie... The lack of guitar would be a logical next step ;-) Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: the big gundown - reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:18:07 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > Here are the tracks and players: > -The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista) > -Macchie Solari (hatori, saft) > -The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista) > -Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron) > -Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista) Were they recorded at the same sessions that the rest of the album were? The lineup are very 90's-like... i would be surprised by Bar Kokhba records from the '80s... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Coltrane Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:20:21 +0200 > Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for me. > His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to > explore his other side. Thanks I'd recommend Ascension - a kind of a big band, recently reissued - and Stellar Regions. Wild music (although I must say that I like miles's 'structured' approach much more). Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Elevator over the hill Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:19:56 +0200 > Does anyone know if the restaging of it from about four years ago was > recorded (legally or otherwise)? I know it was filmed... It was brodacsted on 'muzzik', a french TV channell. A friend of mine recorded it. To days later, the tape was accidentally re-recorded. So I've never seen it. (And about the tower records list) somebody wrote: > Why not? I own records by James Brown, the Meters, Neil Young, Black > Sabbath and Marvin Gaye as well as Escalator Over the Hill. I also enjoy > that Jefferson Starship song "Jane" when it's on the radio. I suppose it's > possible someone could like EOTH and the Go-betweens, whoever they are. What is REALLY surprising on the list is Sabbath's 'mob rules'. Why that one? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: the big gundown - reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 11:25:49 +0200 Hi, The booklet says that they are recorded at atavar studio & frank booth by david baker & jamie saft, but on first sight the booklet does not give a date (unless I am looking not good enough) However they are listed (in the booklet) seperately from the original tracks that were recorded during 1984-1985. So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike Patton was not recording with zorn.... I think. Hope this helps.... Stefan Verstraeten NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records) -----Original Message----- Sent: dinsdag 22 augustus 2000 10:18 Cc: 'Arthur Gadney' ----- Original Message ----- > Here are the tracks and players: > -The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista) > -Macchie Solari (hatori, saft) > -The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista) > -Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron) > -Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista) Were they recorded at the same sessions that the rest of the album were? The lineup are very 90's-like... i would be surprised by Bar Kokhba records from the '80s... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Elevator over the hill Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:19:56 +0200 > Does anyone know if the restaging of it from about four years ago was > recorded (legally or otherwise)? I know it was filmed... It was brodacsted on 'muzzik', a french TV channell. A friend of mine recorded it. To days later, the tape was accidentally re-recorded. So I've never seen it. (And about the tower records list) somebody wrote: > Why not? I own records by James Brown, the Meters, Neil Young, Black > Sabbath and Marvin Gaye as well as Escalator Over the Hill. I also enjoy > that Jefferson Starship song "Jane" when it's on the radio. I suppose it's > possible someone could like EOTH and the Go-betweens, whoever they are. What is REALLY surprising on the list is Sabbath's 'mob rules'. Why that one? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: the big gundown - reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:18:07 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > Here are the tracks and players: > -The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista) > -Macchie Solari (hatori, saft) > -The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista) > -Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron) > -Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista) Were they recorded at the same sessions that the rest of the album were? The lineup are very 90's-like... i would be surprised by Bar Kokhba records from the '80s... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Coltrane Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:20:21 +0200 > Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for me. > His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to > explore his other side. Thanks I'd recommend Ascension - a kind of a big band, recently reissued - and Stellar Regions. Wild music (although I must say that I like miles's 'structured' approach much more). Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Coltrane [2] Date: 21 Aug 2000 12:02:49 +0200 Try out OM and Meditations. And there are great live recordings from Japan. (4 CD Set) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #15 Date: 22 Aug 2000 13:52:52 +0200 parksplace@hotmail.com (Zach) said: > Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums > for me. His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and > I want to explore his other side. Thanks Here are a few of my favorites: * "Interstellar Space" has already been mentioned a couple times * "Stellar Regions", some of his last recordings * "Meditations", a transition record between his classic quartet and his new group * "Sun Ship", an incredible record * "Live in Japan", an impressive 4-cd set. All are on Impulse and easily available, except maybe "Live in Japan". -- Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Bley/Burton question Date: 22 Aug 2000 08:10:36 -0400 skip h asked: Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an all-Carla program) has any bonus material? About half of LOFTY FAKE ANAGRAM was tacked on to it. Odd. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: the big gundown - reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 13:29:19 GMT Hey, >-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron) Anybody know which film this song is from? ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: the big gundown - reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 15:41:51 +0200 Hi, Yes, it is a pity. It has an extended booklet, but it does not say anything about this new tracks..... Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten NP Maeror Tri: Meditamentum II -----Original Message----- Sent: dinsdag 22 augustus 2000 15:29 Hey, >-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron) Anybody know which film this song is from? ARTHUR_G - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: RE: the big gundown - reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 09:56:29 -0400 >-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron) >Anybody know which film this song is from? It's from a 1966 crime film by Carlo Lizzani known in English as "Too Soon to Die." Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zach Griffin Subject: Re: Big Gundown Reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:26:59 -0400 --------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike Patton > was not recording with zorn.... I think. > Not only was Patton not recording with Zorn. Patton was in High School when The Big Gundown was recorded. Zach Griffin --------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike Patton
was not recording with zorn.... I think.


Not only was Patton not recording with Zorn.  Patton was in High School when The Big Gundown was recorded.

Zach Griffin
  --------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Big Gundown Reissue Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:58:21 -0400 The TZADIK website says the following about the BIG GUNDOWN REISSUE: "Newly remastered, this 15th anniversary edition, includes six remarkable bonus tracks RECORDED ESPECIALLY FOR THIS DEFINITIVE EDITION now available exclusively from Tzadik". So I think there's no doubt that they're newly recorded. Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: The Radio Cover Date: 22 Aug 2000 08:09:13 -0700 On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 03:06:42 EDT Velaires@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an > all-Carla program) has any bonus material? It does: *** - A GENUINE TONG FUNERAL: Gary Burton, Carla Bley 1967 - RCA (USA), LSP-3988 (LP) 1967 - RCA (USA), SF 8015 (LP) ???? - RCA (Japan), 6204 (LP) 1968 - RCA Victor (France), RCA-Masters PL 42766 (LP) 1994 - RCA (Japan), BVCJ-7330 (CD) 1994 - BMG (France), BM 720 74321192552 (CD) 1995 - BMG (Germany), 874793 (CD) 1996 - RCA (Germany), 21192552 (CD) 1997 - One Way Records (USA), OW 34510 (CD) 1999 - RCA Victor (USA), 07863 66748-2 (CD) Note: the 1999 RCA Victor reissue includes additional tracks from LOFTY FAKE ANAGRAM. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne Date: 22 Aug 2000 17:49:23 GMT >Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from. It looks > >remarkably like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. > >Bungle. Is there a connection? I really doubt it. Patton did perform with Naked City, but like someone else said the back photo says "Man Ray" and the front is almost surely from Zorn's archives (or maybe also by Man Ray). I think the only connection is that Patton wore a bondage mask that looked like that. About the Big Gundown: >So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike > >Patton was not recording with zorn.... I think. Right, he would have been about 14 years old. Anyway, about the other bonus tracks: I recognize some of those as cover songs; is the one with Derek Bailey improv or some kind of "cover" version as well? Either way, this would seem strange (free improv on a tribute record, or Bailey playing a song, that is). >NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records) How is this? I saw it, but again, haven't had a chance to hear it. Also, has anyone heard that CD "The Zu Side of Eugene Chadbourne" with that Italian band? If so, how is that one? Finally I have another brief interview w/ Dr. Chadbourne that's for an upcoming article, but for anyone who wants to read it (or post it somewhere) let me know. Thanks a lot, WY ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: Radio Cover / Coltrane Date: 22 Aug 2000 13:47:59 -0500 (CDT) > MEEP! "&c." wrote: > >Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from. It looks remarkably > >like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle. It is indeed a photo by man ray - from the 1930's, maybe. the bondage photo is also by man ray, if i recall correctly. > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:30:35 -0400 > From: "&c." > > Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for me. > His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to > explore his other side. Thanks Interstellar Space is a classic. Meditations is also highly recommended. I prefer 'First Meditations,' which is just the quartet (the later Meditations, released earlier but recorded later, has an expanded band, and is more free). Sombody mentioned Ascension - definitely an intense experience. This used to come packaged with Kule Se Mama (sp) in a double disc set; the whole set was great. I think it was called (of all things) 'The Major Works of John Coltrane' (as if A Love Supreme or Blue Trane were 'minor'). I think They subsequently remastered them and released them seperately, but I don't know. You should probably avoid Om, Live in Seattle, and Live in Japan, for the time being... opining, whit np - hooker/marclay/renaldo - 'banquet' - nice noise; anything with marclay is nice noise. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: CDs for sale Date: 22 Aug 2000 13:09:08 -0600 I'm trying to sell the following: ~Julius Hemphill Sextet "At Dr. King's Table" New World $8 ~Marty Erlich's Dark Woods Ensemble "Live Wood" 2CD Music and Arts $14 (personel, Erlich - winds, Friedlander - cello, Helias - bass) Recorded from a european tour in 1996 ~Wayne Shorter "Ju Ju" Blue Note $8 (personel= McCoy Tyner, Reggie Workman, Elvin Jones) ~Morton Feldman "Durations I-V, Coptic Light" cpo $8 ~Harriet Tubman "I am a man" Knitting factory works $8 (personel, Brandon Ross - guitar, Melvin Gibbs - bass, J.T. Lewis - drums) ~Tetreault, M, Otani, Yoshihide "Four Focuses" Amoebic $10 ~Charles Mingus "Let my Children Hear Music" Columbia $8 Prices include shipping within the continental United states. Overseas shipping will cost a bit more. Please mail me privately if you are interested. Thanks, Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: CDs for sale Date: 22 Aug 2000 14:18:57 -0400 I'll grab these. if not yet taken: > ~Marty Erlich's Dark Woods Ensemble "Live Wood" 2CD Music and Arts $14 > (personel, Erlich - winds, Friedlander - cello, Helias - bass) > Recorded from a european tour in 1996 > ~Tetreault, M, Otani, Yoshihide "Four Focuses" Amoebic $10 > ~Charles Mingus "Let my Children Hear Music" Columbia $8 -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: ISO: Weezer tickets Date: 22 Aug 2000 16:24:17 -0400 Sorry for the shot-in-the-dark-waste-of-bandwidth but.... If anyone has extra tickets for Weezer tomorrow night at Irving Plaza in NYC please email me a.s.a.p. Thank you. Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: The Radio Cover Date: 22 Aug 2000 18:03:34 EDT In a message dated 8/22/00 3:11:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Velaires@aol.com writes: << Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an all-Carla program) has any bonus material? >> It does. About half of the LOFTY FAKE ANAGRAM album appears at the end of it. -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: Chasin the Trane Date: 22 Aug 2000 22:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Who was asking about Coltrane? Here it is... Ascension is definitely earth-shattering stuff (not to all, though-?), but it's a bit of a rite of passage thing: you've gotta be prepared for approx. 40 minutes of violent mid-60's New Thing playing (including the perpetually pissed-off Archie Shepp...well, he used to be pissed), but it's worth it No one said a Love Supreme? okay, A Love Supreme. But there's also the little case of MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS!!! get this album (yes, Meditations), because it'll rip yer head off. I can't say more, because ALL of my music is in storage right now (Yes, Trane, Zorn, everything...goddamnit), and if I write too much about I'll cry, openly, from not being able to listen to it. [insert little sad face represented by punctuation here] best thing to do is befriend someone with a phatty Coltrane collection and get to borrowin. btw, His late stuff only increases your appreciation of his early stuff (of course), and he advanced so quickly and recorded to often that -given the time- you can actually HEAR his improvement/metamorphosis (whichever you wanna term it) from disc to disc. It's a very enriching experience, and I only lie to people that I know... Oh yeah, about Radio--that is Man Ray (at least the prayer/ass phote on the back). and Mike Patton has a sweet ass, anyway, and I only lie about people I know __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 01:43:37 EDT the Coltrane record I've probably played the most over the last few years is one I don't think's been mentioned yet, Coltrane's Sound (Atlantic). great tunes and playing by the classic quartet, except Steve Davis is subbing for Jimmy Garrison, and it contains the oft-covered, gorgeous Equinox. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne Date: 23 Aug 2000 08:48:49 +0200 -----Original Message----- I think the only connection is that Patton wore a bondage mask that looked like that. (stefan) are you referring to the picture that can be found in the booklet of Bob Ostertags' album "Fear No Love" (on the Avant label)? Or did he actually perform with one of those things? About the Big Gundown: Anyway, about the other bonus tracks: I recognize some of those as cover songs; is the one with Derek Bailey improv or some kind of "cover" version as well? Either way, this would seem strange (free improv on a tribute record, or Bailey playing a song, that is). (stefan) I don't know the original version, but the track has a feeling of composed music and not free improv. However, it is not unusual that Derek Bailey acutally covers a song the way it is written (I know that he also impovises on songs, like the Mengelberg track "Where is the police"). But these moments are rare, you are right about that. IMHO the tracks sounds like a cover, the only problem is that it is played rather noisey (compare this track to the album Ground Zero plays standards, and you know what I mean). >NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records) How is this? I saw it, but again, haven't had a chance to hear it. (stefan) It is a great album. It is a double cd on the leo label. It is however not a consistent album: it has studio and live tracks, covers and self-written tracks, played by chadbourne solo - lovens solo and duo recordings, lo-fi and hi-fi parts. But generally speaking it is a great album: chadbourne and lovens actually play in a conventional style and the covers are great (lots of country off course). But the songs that are written by chadbourne himself are the best... take a typical country tune and sing a stupid story above it. BTW, there is a new Lovens/Chadbourne record out on his own label House of Chadula, but this is on its way to me. Also, has anyone heard that CD "The Zu Side of Eugene Chadbourne" with that Italian band? If so, how is that one? (stefan) Same as above: the cd is on its way to me. I ordered quite some stuff on his own label and post some reviews when they will arrive. Finally I have another brief interview w/ Dr. Chadbourne that's for an upcoming article, but for anyone who wants to read it (or post it somewhere) let me know. (stefan) as far as i am concerned, Write me in. But why not post it on the zornlist? Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: new releases on a new label (no zorn content) Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:06:39 +0200 Hello Zornmembers, I know that there are quite some fans of noise music and musique = conr=E8te, and yes, they can meet after all. There is a new Cd-r label called "A pyrrhic victory" (website http://www.manifoldrecords.com/pyrrhicvictory.html ) that allready = released three amazing albums. -Hands to: Turn back the sun This is an cd that was previously (and slightly different) released on = the GROSS label (the cassette label of AUBE). Keyman behind this project is = Jeph Jerman. A well known underground figure, but it was my first = introduction. The album sounds a bit like John Duncan, but more in the lo-fi style. = The sound consists of location recordings (valleys, creeks, ...), distant voices, glitches, ... all well structured together. The general = impression is a haunting sphere. -Jeph Jerman: Beach tree and birds Solo project of the Hands To foreman (strange if you ask me... a solo project of a band who consists of only one man.....). Once again manipultated field recordings... but no more hiss and tape glitches. On = this cd, more sound sources are used than on the Hands To cd wich gives a = more varied soundspectrum. Based on the tracks I would say that he used the = sound of tree, birds, bamboo, stones,... but because of the manipulation, it = is hard to say. The housing of the cd is great: a digipack covered with = old national geographic maps. -Augur: All the smallest granules of time Personally I have never heard before of Steve Brand of Augur, but what = an impression he made. The cd is based on two projects that were running independently, but came together after all. Steve Brand recieved a = package of old family photographs and started thinking music with this pictures = and emotions. Vince from Manifold records received discarded motion picture films from long-dead family members, and wanted that some would make a "soundtrack" for these movies. The result is fabulous: what you hear is = a "patchwork" of sounds that are related to the pictures and the movies: = old recordings, broken phonographs with abnormal pitch and speed, = environmental sounds,... Also in this case the packaging is superb: the cover features a small = phot of his ancestors and the case is a transparent jewel case filled with negatives from the movies that Vince received. However note that all these releases are limited (100 copies), so hurry = up if you want any of these gems.... Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: [off topic] Sound cards for notebooks Date: 23 Aug 2000 09:19:09 +0200 Hi, sorry to bother you , but I have no better idea where to ask that... I bought a second hand laptop computer recently (a toshiba 166 - i'll have it in two weeks as i bought it abroad) and would like to use it also for making music. I've been told that the quality of laptop sound outs is very poor because of the interferences from the HD and power supply. Is that true? I 'm not loooking for top quality, as the sound will go through a Korg multi FX, so the accuracy does not interest me that much, i'd just like to avoid some solid noises that seriously affect the sound. And, anyhow, are any cards that include SPDIF and MIDI available ? If yes, is there any good place online to buy such stuff used? How much does such stuff cost? Reply me personally, Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: [off topic] Sound cards for notebooks Date: 23 Aug 2000 11:14:49 +0200 Sorry for the general reply, but my mail to marcin bounced back.... -----Original Message----- Hi, sorry to bother you , but I have no better idea where to ask that... I bought a second hand laptop computer recently (a toshiba 166 - i'll have it in two weeks as i bought it abroad) and would like to use it also for making music. I 'm not loooking for top quality, as the sound will go through a Korg multi FX, so the accuracy does not interest me that much, i'd just like to avoid some solid noises that seriously affect the sound. (stefan) believe it or not, but I also have a toshiba and also work with a korg sound module (I have a MS-2000 rack version). So we faced the same problem. I've been told that the quality of laptop sound outs is very poor because of the interferences from the HD and power supply. Is that true? (stefan) I am afraid that this is correct. When I used the toshiba with the hardware it was delivered, it had a lot of problems: too much noise (even when I used the noise suppressor pedal that I have for my guitar it did not help very much) and cracks. And when I played high notes, I was immediately faced with distortion and feedback, even with a low volume on the computer. The best thing to do is in fact buy a soundcard. That way, 99% of the problems dissapear, and since we both use is to manipulate sound, no one will hear the 1% distortion or noise. And, anyhow, are any cards that include SPDIF and MIDI available ? If yes, is there any good place online to buy such stuff used? How much does such stuff cost? (stefan) Midi is in fact the best way to play with your laptop. You almost get a perfect sound this way and the results are far better. the only problem was that I did not found any cards that supported midi. Normally, you should have a gate free to build in a midi gateway (in, out and thru), but expect to pay some money for it. The problem is that there are so many hardware types depending on what you want and the price you want to pay for it. Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: [off-topic] Useful contacts for an european band Date: 23 Aug 2000 11:01:06 +0200 Hi, sorry a post that may interest only few people... I have recently refformed my band, and we are looking for some place to play. We are located in Warsaw, Poland. We are mostly inrested in places to play in Central Europe - Poland ( it 's rathe hard to find a place to play such stuff in Warsaw), Germany, Holland, Blegium, Tchech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary... Maybe somebody could help? We are currently recording our new music with the new lineup (which consist of myself on loops, vocals, texts, prerecorded sounds, radio, and FXs, Mikolaj Hernik on reeds and FX, and Marcin Rychter on piano). After we make some more recordings i will make some selection available online as MP3s. That should happen in spetember. Another query consist in contact with independent record labels that would be interested in an improvised electroacoustic noisy music. Any ideas? Sorry for bothering you, Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: [off-topic] Useful contacts for an european band Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:35:31 +0200 -----Original Message----- Sent: woensdag 23 augustus 2000 11:01 Hi, We are currently recording our new music with the new lineup (which = consist of myself on loops, vocals, texts, prerecorded sounds, radio, and FXs, Mikolaj Hernik on reeds and FX, and Marcin Rychter on piano). After we = make some more recordings i will make some selection available online as = MP3s. That should happen in spetember. Another query consist in contact with independent record labels that = would be interested in an improvised electroacoustic noisy music. Any ideas? (stefan) Shoot me for being a little bit too proud, but let personally = plug an interesting belgian record label that brings your music. It is = called Lowlands and is run by Tom (also known as Dj Low who has performed with David Shea, Jim O'rourke, Kondo, Martin T=E9treault, ...). Their = website can be found at: http://www.surf-inn.be/lowlands and their contact address = is lowlands@innet.be. Other good belgian labels are sub rosa and kraak. But if you want a list of good independant labels, go check out the fantastic website "Labellist" at the address http://members.tripod.com/labellist/ Hope this helps, Best wishes, Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Sponsoring problems at Hat Hut Date: 23 Aug 2000 15:14:22 +0200 I've just learnt that the great swiss label Hat Hut will lose its sponsorship by UBS (a national bank union) at the end of 2000. As a consequence, if they don't find a new sponsor with an equal interest open-mindedness and interest in music, they may have to produce some more commercial-oriented music. Or die. So if any of you know any millionaire, another national bank union, or any other potential investor ... it may help. For those who are not familiar with the label, it started in 1975 and has produced records by (among others): Cecil Taylor, Joe Maneri, Ellery Eskelin, Matthew Shipp, Guillermo Gregorio, ICP Orchestra, Dave Douglas, Ray Anderson, John Zorn (News and More News for Lulu), Joe McPhee, Myra Melford, Paul Dunmall, Misha Mengelberg, Mat Maneri, Franz Koglmann, Simon Nabatov, Harace Tapscott, Clusone 3, Christy Doran, Ran Blake, Taku Sugimoto, Loren MazzaCane Connors, Anthony Braxton, Morton Feldman, Jimmi Giuffre, Urs Leimgruber... and the list goes could go on forever... The best contemporary jazz label in the world ? Hope it won't disappear... Form more details, visit their website at: http://www.hathut.com Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 09:44:56 -0500 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > the Coltrane record I've probably played the most over the last few years is > one I don't think's been mentioned yet, Coltrane's Sound (Atlantic). great > tunes and playing by the classic quartet, except Steve Davis is subbing for > Jimmy Garrison, and it contains the oft-covered, gorgeous Equinox. Seconded... a gorgeous, gorgeous record, although far more "inside" than most of what's being mentioned in this thread. This is pretty staight stuff from the nascent "classic" quartet, prior to Garrison's arrival. I think it's the first time Trane used multiphonics on record, as well. Another good marker of just how far Trane was beginning to stray from his former colleagues can be heard on the magnificent live recordings of the Miles Davis Quintet captured live in Stockholm in 1960. This has been available for quite some time as a two CD set on Dragon (as well as half of a four CD set, the other half from months later and including Sonny Stitt replacing Trane). Agreed that this is not a starting point but instead recommended for the intermediate Coltrane fan, but this set is just so enlightening. The material is mostly from the '50s recordings of the first great Davis quintet like 'Kind of Blue,' but this is a far different Trane, one already stretching boundaries and playing extended, furiously roiling solos positively seething with energy (and pissing off Davis in the process). The rest of this fabulous band sounds rather timid by contrast, as Trane's ascension to come is already in evidence at some points here. The two CD version (and probably the four CD version as well) also includes a short but hysterical interview with Trane by some well-meaning Swedish radio journalists. If memory serves, they tell a quietly bemused Trane that he is playing "dangerous" music... Regarding the late stuff, I'm in agreement that much of this is worth hearing repeatedly, especially the gorgeous 'Live at the Village Vanguard Again' - a young David S. Ware was in the audience. But IMHO, you absolutely must hear the very posthumously released 'Stellar Regions.' This came at the very end of Trane's career, in February 1967 (and was only rediscovered by wife Alice and son Ravi in 1994). One track was released on 'Expression,' the rest sat in a box for almost three decades. The truly astonishing thing about this music is that it begins to point the way towards yet another development in Trane's art... it manages to capture the fiery energy of those epic-length explorations by the late group, yet crystallizes it into quite compact pieces that are far more easily assimilated. Beautiful playing from all concerned (Trane, Alice, Garrison and Rashied Ali). Who knows what might have followed? Check out the following review from the Phoenix New Times if you want to feel your blood boil at the way Trane's late period (not to mention a large chunk of Ornette's career) is STILL being maligned by ill-informed, wrongheaded reviewers with an agenda and column space to fill (this review dates from LAST WEEK, mind you...): http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2000-08-17/music3.html Finally, although its structures are admittedly fairly simplistic and it's almost embarassingly confessional in its heart-on-sleeve spiritualism, 'A Love Supreme' is for my money one of the signal achievements in all of music. Few albums have ever come more nakedly from the heart and soul of any musician. Think I'll be on a Trane trip today... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - John Coltrane, "One Up, One Down," 'Dear Old Stockholm' (Impulse!/GRP) - the (first) classic quartet circa '65, with Roy Haynes subbing for Elvin Jones - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Chadbourne Date: 23 Aug 2000 06:49:38 -0700 > From: "William York" > Subject: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne > > >NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records) > How is this? I saw it, but again, haven't had a chance to hear it. This is a typical Chadbourne release -- which to me is always a bit disappointing. it is very hit and miss, there's some good stuff, and quite a bit of bad. And the sound on some of it is pretty poor. It probably would have made a really good single disc, but stretching it over 2 wasn't necessary. And Loven's doesn't come through the way I was hoping. > Also, has anyone heard that CD "The Zu Side of >Eugene Chadbourne" with that Italian > band? If so, how is that one? I like this one a lot. Loud, rockish, and fun. I'd also like to put in a plug for a 'radio CD release party' for a new Chadbourne album next week. It is a Chadbourne/Vertrek Ensemble disc recorded last spring. Vertrek are coming into the studio with me, we'll be playing the disc, they're bringing instruments and will be playing, and we're hoping to get Chadbourne on the phone (which may be a problem, because he is in Sicily that night). Anyway, the station is broadcast over the web in quicktime, found at www.cjsr.com. Next Thursday, September 1 at 8pm Mountain time (10 eastern, 11 pacific, anyone else figure it out for yourself). Also, if anyone wants the disc before the usual distributors get it, contact me and I'll pass the message on. Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:09:04 -0400 >Check out the following review from the Phoenix New Times if Pretty funny. "Would you rather hear a jackhammer or a car crash?" Of course the correct answer is "Both, please." (At least this guy gave the albums plenty of space & description, enough that if I was still a teenager who'd never even heard of Coltrane or Coleman I'd immediately rush out and buy the albums.) Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:18:59 -0500 wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: > (At least this guy gave the albums plenty of space & description, enough that if I was still a teenager who'd never even heard of Coltrane or Coleman I'd immediately rush out and buy the albums.) I hadn't thought of that. You're quite correct. Steve ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Miles Davis & John Coltrane, "On Green Dolphin Street," 'Live in Stockholm 1960' (Dragon) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: PROMO: Dean Roberts/Werner Dafeldecker-Aluminium Date: 23 Aug 2000 11:33:28 EDT sorry for the promotional intrusion, and further apologies if you receive=20 more than one copy of this: I'm proud to announce the release of the latest CD on my label: Dean Roberts/Werner Dafeldecker-Aluminium (Erstwhile 009) Dean Roberts and Werner Dafeldecker seem unlikely collaborators at first=20 glance. Roberts, who originally hails from New Zealand, began his career delving int= o=20 guitar drones and feedback, both in the trio Thela and on his own, under the= =20 name White Winged Moth. He founded the label Formacentric Disk in order to=20 document a wider range of his work, and released four projects in two years.= =20 In 1998, he began working with the influential German label Mille Plateaux,=20 who put out his much acclaimed All Cracked Medias, and earlier this year, An= d=20 the Black Moths Play the Grand Cinema, on their more experimental sublabel=20 Ritornell.=20 Dafeldecker, a lifelong resident of Vienna, is probably best known for being= =20 an integral member of the improv supergroup Polwechsel, as well as for=20 founding and running the influential label Durian. He's composed numerous=20 pieces for various classical ensembles, and also appears on two recent=20 notable CDs, Printer (Durian), and Martin Siewert's Komfort 2000 (Charhizma)= .=20 Originally primarily a bassist, Dafeldecker has been working more with guita= r=20 and electronics recently, both of which he plays to great effect on Aluminiu= m. Aluminium was recorded during a marathon studio session in Vienna in April,=20 and was brilliantly mastered by Tim Barnes. Both musicians play guitar and=20 electronics, along with occasional percussion on a hi-hat placed between=20 them. On the first track, Dafeldecker's sine wave electronics intersect with= =20 Roberts' rough guitar textures, priming the listener's aural palette for the= =20 marathon track which follows. This half hour long piece is a atmospheric=20 exploration fusing the legacy of AMM with the spirit of rock and roll. "Roberts and Dafeldecker avoid flamboyant gestures as emphatically as a trus= t=20 fund anarchist dodges the neighborhood Starbucks. They prefer to gradually=20 generate magnetic tension by parsimoniously deploying contrasting squeals,=20 scrapes, whines, and bell-like tolls like small objects on a vast, hushed=20 soundfield. The two men evoke a space where humans are heard but not seen,=20 crafting visions of a humming metalworks with nary a human in sight."--Bill=20 Meyer personnel: Dean Roberts-guitar, electronics and percussion=20 Werner Dafeldecker-guitar, electronics and percussion track listing: 1. Rock and Roll Part 4-10:34 2. Rock and Roll Part 5-30:03 more info available at the following web sites, or contact Erstwhile Records= =20 at ErstRecs@aol.com: http://www.erstwhilerecords.com http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mdafel.html http://www.angelfire.com/music/formacentric/roberts.html http://www.durian.at all Erstwhile CDs can be purchased from numerous worldwide distributors, all= =20 of which are listed on my web site. also, all Erstwhile releases can be=20 purchased via mail order (prices are for single CDs):=20 $13 US each postpaid within the United States=20 $14 US each postpaid to Canada=20 $16 US each postpaid overseas=20 all payments must be made in US funds. cash and money orders shipped=20 immediately. mail cash at your own risk. shipments paid for with checks held= =20 until they clear. please send your order to: Erstwhile Records 189 Christopher Columbus Dr. Apt. #4 Jersey City, NJ 07302 future releases from Erstwhile will include: 010: G=FCnter M=FCller/L=EA Quan Ninh-The Liquid Vowel 011: Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack 012: Thomas Lehn/Marcus Schmickler-Bart 013: Axel D=F6rner/Kevin Drumm 014: TV Pow/Stilluppsteypa 015: Phil Durrant/Thomas Lehn/Radu Malfatti also available now: 001-VHF-Extracts 002-Haunted House-Up In Flames 003-Earl Howard/Denman Maroney-Fire Song 004-2-Thomas Lehn/Gerry Hemingway-Tom & Gerry (double CD) 005-Keith Rowe/G=FCnter M=FCller/Taku Sugimoto-The World Turned Upside Down 006-Kevin Drumm/Martin T=E9treault-Particles and Smears 007-John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs 008-Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee thanks for reading. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 15:49:40 GMT That was a nicely articulated defense of Coltrane's later period. I have to agree that Stellar Regions and A Love Supreme were phenomenal musical moments, though for me Interstellar Space was the singular instance. One can always rest easy when would-be critics "profane" the "sacred" by reducing an extraordinary articulation to such adjectives as "weird" or "strange" or by implicitly endorsing the "use-value" of music as "soundtracks for bedding the bouffanted babes" or a "perfect mix of library jazz and nookie music." Must have just graduated. On the other hand, Pharoah Sanders gets onomatopoeia: "tenorman Sanders, whose raspy yelps sounded like a throat being cleared." This of course is the prevailing common sense and it is also the reason that golddiggers have managed to lap up cheap second hand throwaways at the local stores. I owe a lot to common sense, as well as to the fact that most people will never be able to grow the ears to hear what they're dispensing with. The "intimidating and vulnerable" Coltrane, who manages to "put off" by being both at once, as though their were rule preventing it, can never be read by such people as anything other than imbued with "spiritual angst," always in the negative rather than the affirmative. So is anyone infuriating listeners today in the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is always expected? If so, then where are these points of "anguish?" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 09:00:55 -0700 On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:44:56 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: > > Finally, although its structures are admittedly fairly simplistic and it's > almost embarassingly confessional in its heart-on-sleeve spiritualism, > 'A Love Supreme' is for my money one of the signal achievements in all of > music. Few albums have ever come more nakedly from the heart and soul of > any musician. Don't feel ashamed :-). I can tell you that you are not the only one!!! A record that was not mentioned and that I think makes the transition from "classic" Coltrane to "modern" Coltrane, is the amazing OLE. This is maybe the first Coltrane record where you detect that he is more than a fantastic and inspired player, but that he is also on something else. Could it be one of his first "modal" record (question for the specialist)? Patrice (almost embarrassed to acknowledge that he discovered "A Love Supreme" with McLaughlin/Santana's version and was very disappointed, a few months later, to listen to the original (that I did not like at first); even more embarrassed to acknowledge that I recently listened to their version again (after 20 years!) and that I still like it). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:10:09 EDT In a message dated 8/23/00 12:02:00 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: << > Finally, although its structures are admittedly fairly simplistic and it's > almost embarassingly confessional in its heart-on-sleeve spiritualism, > 'A Love Supreme' is for my money one of the signal achievements in all of > music. Few albums have ever come more nakedly from the heart and soul of > any musician. Don't feel ashamed :-). I can tell you that you are not the only one!!! >> yeah, I still love this record, no matter how many times I play it. I still recommend this and Miles' Kind Of Blue for people who haven't heard any jazz and are interested in beginning to explore the genre. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:26:41 EDT Pascal Cortes wrote: >I've just learnt that the great swiss label Hat Hut will lose its >sponsorship by UBS (a national bank union) at the end of 2000. As a >consequence, if they don't find a new sponsor with an equal interest >open-mindedness and interest in music, they may have to produce some more >commercial-oriented music. Or die. >So if any of you know any millionaire, another national bank union, or >any other potential investor ... it may help. With all due respect to Hat Hut, who I agree *are* a great label, I must say "Welcome to the real world". I wish that we had had a millionaire, national bank union, or anyone else to help *us* with our releases. Even for a short period of time. We've never gotten a penny in sponsorship money or anything else since the beginning. I ran my label at a personal loss for over 13 years, & only in the last 2 years or so has it started to begin to sorta break even. That's SORTA, as in not really, but better than before, even if NOT at a profit. And I certainly hope that this topic doesn't degenerate into a mindless "yeah, but you suck, & they are great" thread. That's not my point. Obviously. My point is that there's lots of great labels in a wide variety of fields that don't get even a crumb in terms of "arts money". It might be nice is some of that arts money got spread around a little more, imo. So, while I would hate to see Hat Hut go down, I certainly won't be crying for them if they can't come up with another millionaire to keep them afloat. BTW, we generally release avant composed rock, with forrays into other music, such as electronics, free jazz, & etc. If you're interested in seeing what we do: http://www.cuneiformrecords.com Steve/ Cuneiform - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: [Ribot on] jc's new album Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:24:46 -0400 Anyone have impressions to share on Ribot's performance on (one of the = two) new James Carter disc(s)? Is he on the whole album? I read a little = about both recent Carter discs and am intrigued with the Django quasi-trib= ute, but not sure about James Carter... happy listening Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" Subject: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 18:46:23 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Mittwoch, 23. August 2000 18:26 > Pascal Cortes wrote: > > >So if any of you know any millionaire, another national bank union, or > >any other potential investor ... it may help. > > With all due respect to Hat Hut, who I agree *are* a great label, I must say > "Welcome to the real world". > > My point is that there's lots of great labels in a wide variety of fields > that don't get even a crumb in terms of "arts money". It might be nice is > some of that arts money got spread around a little more, imo. well, I see it like this swiss banks have always been desperate to sponsor but they sponsor an enormous lot of mainstream crap. hat hut was an exception and I never understood why they did it.... sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was just as well that hat hut was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money will now go to something really crappy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:16:52 -0700 On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:46:23 +0200 "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote: > > swiss banks have always been desperate to sponsor > but they sponsor an enormous lot of mainstream crap. hat hut was an > exception > and I never understood why they did it.... > > sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was just as > well that hat hut > was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money will now go to something > really crappy But Werner Uhlinger (spelling?), the owner of Hat Hut, is a rich man, if I remember well. This means that he also has powerful connections. At least he applied from sponsorship, the banks might have thought: "If a serious man like Werner asks to money that might be for something worthwhile." Patrice (guessing). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" Subject: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 19:34:45 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- Just a while ago, Patrice wrote: > On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:46:23 +0200 "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote: > > > > swiss banks have always been desperate to sponsor > > but they sponsor an enormous lot of mainstream crap. hat hut was an > > exception and I never understood why they did it.... > > But Werner Uhlinger (spelling?), the owner of Hat Hut, is a rich man, if > I remember well. This means that he also has powerful connections. At least > he applied from sponsorship, the banks might have thought: "If a serious > man like Werner asks to money that might be for something worthwhile." I don't know... how serious is someone who gives up a top job in the chemical industry to produce jazz records? ;-) Stephane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Biffle" Subject: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:34:46 -0700 >> sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was = just as well that hat hut was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money = will now go to something really crappy > But Werner Uhlinger (spelling?), the owner of Hat Hut, is a rich man, if = I remember well. This means that he also has powerful connections. At = least he applied from sponsorship, the banks might have thought: "If a = serious man like Werner asks to money that might be for something = worthwhile." Patrice (guessing). This is a good example of money making more money! Quite the (un)funny = paradox... God forbid banks loaning money to people who actually need it! -Miko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:38:07 -0700 On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:34:45 +0200 "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote: > > I don't know... how serious is someone who gives up a top job in the > chemical industry to produce jazz records? ;-) Sure, but it is easier for a bank to loan money to somebody who does not need it :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:40:59 -0700 On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:34:46 -0700 "Mike Biffle" wrote: > > >> sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was just as well that hat hut was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money will now go to something really crappy > > > But Werner Uhlinger (spelling?), the owner of Hat Hut, is a rich man, if I remember well. This means that he also has powerful connections. At least he applied from sponsorship, the banks might have thought: "If a serious man like Werner asks to money that might be for something worthwhile." Patrice (guessing). > > This is a good example of money making more money! Quite the (un)funny > paradox... God forbid banks loaning money to people who actually need it! I doubt that this a good example (unless you have a twisted sense of what good means). Putting money in producing records is not something people do to make more money... At least not in the genres that Hat Hut focuses on. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 19:46:43 +0200 I must admit that my first post on the topic was clumsy, and maybe even worse if you consider it might be read by someone like Steve@cuneiform who spends a lot of energy in running an independant label with high artistic standards and without the help of any sponsor. Sorry for that, Steve. Anyway, whatever the situation may be for the other labels, the fact that Hat Hut will lose its sponsorship from UBS is bad news. Because it means that more commercial considerations will be involved in the label's activities. Unavoidably at the detriment of purely artistic considerations. Bad news for the label, but also bad news for the musicians and composers. And bad news for the listener. Of course, I suppose everybody on the list would like to see "arts money spread around more". To more record labels, more musicians, more clubs and venues. But as Stephane said, the money that used to go from UBS to Hat Hut will probably go to "to something really crappy". That's why I still think this is still sad news whatever the "real world" may be like. Pascal At 18:46 23/08/00 +0200, you wrote: > >> Pascal Cortes wrote: >> >> >So if any of you know any millionaire, another national bank union, or >> >any other potential investor ... it may help. >> >> Steve@cuneiform: >> >>With all due respect to Hat Hut, who I agree *are* a great label, I must >say >> "Welcome to the real world". >> >> My point is that there's lots of great labels in a wide variety of fields >> that don't get even a crumb in terms of "arts money". It might be nice is >> some of that arts money got spread around a little more, imo. > >Stephane Vuilleumier >well, I see it like this > >swiss banks have always been desperate to sponsor > but they sponsor an enormous lot of mainstream crap. hat hut was an >exception > and I never understood why they did it.... > >sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was just as >well that hat hut >was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money will now go to something >really crappy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 14:54:06 -0400 >sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was Maybe in Europe but not the US where really only the music margins are sponsored, usually classical labels like New World or CRI and possibly others like Folkways (now owned by Smithsonian, ie the US Government or the American people take your pick) counts. Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: Re: sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 14:01:45 CDT >Of course, I suppose everybody on the list would like to see "arts money >spread around more". To more record labels, more musicians, more clubs and >venues. But as Stephane said, the money that used to go from UBS to Hat Hut >will probably go to "to something really crappy". That's why I still think >this is still sad news whatever the "real world" may be like. > >Pascal One refreshing thing about "the arts" is their uselessness. In the recent thread about persistent fear and loathing of Coltrane's late music, Bill Ashline makes passing reference to "common sense" identifications of a music's (art's, etc) worth with its "use value": that is, to what further end can this object/experience be put? And how concrete/immediate/sensual/profitable is that further end? (This gives new meaning to the phrase "instrumental music". Ha!) A possible danger in our seeking refuge in the useless is that we bend toward an "art pour l'art" view of creative productions. (Well, not on the Zorn-list; but surely we know arts establishments which thrive or die on the level of grant money they receive.) Patronage is, quite simply I believe, the very history of the arts. It's woven into the fibers of human creation, at the very least in the West. So everything that's heretofore defined our aesthetic and the structures within which we operate (or which we push against, defining ourselves negatively)---as auditors or as performer/producers---is historically saturated with dependency. DIY (do it youself!) is refreshing to me for that reason: I don't care for most of the teenage (mentality) punk bands I hear, and I don't have any love for vinyl exotica, 7" records, or that kind of thing (commodity fetishism, all of it ;)---but the gauntlet is thrown down in the face of 1.) big capital and cynical [if I'd spelled it 'Cynical', I'd have been referring to a healthy attitude that permeates the (?) counterculture] marketing strategy; and, more significantly, 2.) the fragility of patronage, which is economic effeminacy. The kind of aggressive rigor and world-wise Phillip Marlowe marketing savvy that an outsider-hostile climate (like, perhaps, the USA) can provide is crucial to the persistence of the arts. Who woulda thought that I'd ever extol the virtues of US Capital? Go team! I will be sad if/when HatArt folds, or dilutes its content; however, I will be sadder at the thought that labels like HatArt fall into the complacency of a dependence on patronage in order to persist. That's only thrown into relief when the crisis arrives, i.e. the money STOPS. As for the patronage itself: if I thought I could resist the insinuation of moneyed interests into the operations of my (hypothetical) label, I would probably not refuse the money, unless I did so on principle. I'm not trying to propose some kind of "gob on the passing limo" fundamentalism. -----s P.S. Interesting that HatArt, to my knowledge, would have had at least marginally DIY beginnings: I own several of the original Joe McPhee LPs which initiated the label, and the packaging is rather cheap-looking, as is the vinyl (lightweight). I understand some of the great early McPhee records (TENOR, at least) were made on Uehlinger's portable tape deck, and it sure sounds like it. Am I bad fooled? P.P.S. On the old Free Music Production site, there was an (unoffical?) slogan: "Working against capitalism from within capitalism." Immanence! Is there any other way to go? NP: INDEPENDENCE DAY, the movie (kidding! kidding!) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 14:33:01 CDT >From: Steve Smith >Another good marker of just how far Trane was beginning to stray from his >former colleagues can be heard on the magnificent live recordings of the >Miles >Davis Quintet captured live in Stockholm in 1960. This has been >available for >quite some time as a two CD set on Dragon (as well as half of a four CD >set, >the other half from months later and including Sonny Stitt replacing >Trane). I'm very interested in the 2CD set on Dragon, but I haven't been able to find it, either on Dragon's website, or from any number of online stores. The quadruple box is still available. Can the double-disc still be found? ----s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rimas Subject: berlin recommendations ? Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:54:17 -0700 hope noone minds the non-zorn related query but I'm going to be in Berlin next week and since there seem to be a decent number of europe-based people on this list I thought I'd ask for recommendations about any shows to catch or righteous venues/clubs (or anything else kinda off the beaten path) to check out while i'm there. thanks, -rimas - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:42:50 EDT In a message dated 8/23/00 11:50:43 AM, bashline@hotmail.com writes: << So is anyone infuriating listeners today in the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is always expected? If so, then where are these points of "anguish?" >> maybe I'm not understanding your question correctly, but I think it's safe to say that the new wave of electronics improvisers, especially the ones working with sine waves, have confused and infuriated more than a few long-time avant improv fans. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: sine wavers Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:48:42 -0400 >but I think it's safe to say that the new wave of electronics >improvisers, especially the ones working with sine waves, have I've run across several references to this but not much detail. Who are some of these people? Do you mean literal sine waves (which are pretty dull) or is that more a shorthand for something else? Are they making interference/modulation patterns? And in what way is this improvised? Lost in the stars, Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: more sponsorship Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:57:53 EDT Hi Pascal, > I must admit that my first post on the topic was clumsy, and maybe even >worse if you consider it might be read by someone like Steve@cuneiform >who >spends a lot of energy in running an independant label with high artistic >standards and without the help of any sponsor. Sorry for that, Steve. No problem. Thank you for your nice comments about this. I was not insulted by your "clumsy" posting at all - but reading it *did* shock me out of my usual lurker mode and made me feel that I *had* to respond. So, what do you [& others] imagine are kind of things will UBS sponsor that are so "really crappy"? Normally "arts" money goes for somewhat "highbrow" things - at least in the USA. I think that the fact that I do "rock bands" is one reason why there would not generally be money forthcoming for a label like Cuneiform, even though my rock bands have more to do with Stravinsky than Bruce Springsteen. I mean, do they give money to the Swiss version of Madonna, N'Sync & Brittney? I guess what I'm trying to say is that though I find that a lot of the stuff that gets arts money in the USA [ballet companies, symphonies, "classical" record labels] are kinda dull to me personally, I would say that they are all "worthy", & I would not characterize any of them as "crappy".... Steve/ Cuneiform - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: two jcs -- trane and carter plus ribot Date: 23 Aug 2000 13:43:15 -0700 1. Trane: Live in Seattle, Impulse. With Pharoah. Terrifying two-LP set. Have no idea if it's on CD, but props are due. My impression is that it's somewhat rare. 2. New James Carter. Layin the Cut could hardly have a more promising lineup -- Ribot, Tacuma, Cal Weston, and a guitarist from Shannon Jackson (forget his name). Album is a hodgepodge jam -- Carter said he thought the session was going to be their first rehearsal. Not much Ribot soloing -- if you buy it for Ribot, you're forewarned. Mix is inconsistent. Amazing Atlantic would throw an album together like this and then spend multiples of the production cost for advertising.... "Gypsy," the Django tribute, is quite the opposite. Meticulously worked out arrangements -- classical and steel string acoustic guitars are very nice, altho i forget the players (not ribot). REgina Carter on violin, viola. Perhaps our pal Joey on drums?.... Very pleasant outing. 3. To Steve at Cuneiform: You rock, man. Glad to hear you're finally starting to break even and am grateful for cats like you helping to get the music out there. If my poor memory isn't failing me again, I have you to thank for Curlew's tunes hanging out around my pad.... Martin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" Subject: DSP/ electronic references Date: 23 Aug 2000 17:21:00 -0400 After reading some of the articles on the erstwhile site, I am interested in figuring out a little more detail about the equipment/resources used in this kind of music. When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections? What kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds? There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav (for MAC and PC). Any info or links appreciated... Jim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 23 Aug 2000 17:28:22 EDT In a message dated 8/23/00 5:14:22 PM, jim@intelligenesis.net writes: << When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections? What kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds? There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav (for MAC and PC). >> I'm not an expert on the technical end of things, but I believe a lot of the musicians use Max and/or Lisa. there's a link for Max among some other possibly relevant links on the Steim website: http://www.steim.nl/links.html. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: recommendations, please Date: 23 Aug 2000 18:00:33 -0400 Hello list, Ok, in my local record store I've seen: DAVE DOUGLAS: soul on soul DAVE DOUGLAS: leap of faith JOEY BARON: we'll soon find out Now, I'll probably get all of them, but my extremely limited student spending money can only let me buy one CD this week. Maybe somebody will buy them so I need to know which one would you pick from these albums. Thanks... Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 22:04:55 GMT >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >In a message dated 8/23/00 11:50:43 AM, bashline@hotmail.com writes: > ><< So is anyone infuriating listeners today in >the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this >measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even >possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is >always expected? If so, then where are these points of "anguish?" >> > >maybe I'm not understanding your question correctly, but I think it's safe >to >say that the new wave of electronics improvisers, especially the ones >working >with sine waves, have confused and infuriated more than a few long-time >avant >improv fans. Ah yes, sine waves, where the "anguish" can be physical as well figurative. A "non-instrumental" music, to steal a relevant "Handleyism" that floated by moments ago. And yes, you most certainly understood the question. Besides Sachiko M, Ikeda, and some of Stefan's beloved noise innovators, who are the other sine wave pioneers? When I listen to sine waves, the whole question of aural space and sources gets problematized. I can never tell if the sound is emanating from the book shelves or the speaker since the sound bounces off and circulates around all objects in the room. There is something monaural about sine waves that starts to seriously undermine the concept of music entirely, a spare minimalism that can never really have the same political resonance as that which animated the music of Coltrane and Coleman, music that really was a reflection of that particular period. On the other hand, it is certainly true that sine wave music is far more radical conceptually, even if the political and social climate in which it develops is much less so. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: DSP/ electronic references Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:06:30 -0600 >After reading some of the articles on the erstwhile site, I am >interested in figuring out a little more detail about the >equipment/resources used in this kind of music. I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very frequently in real time computer music. But I also know next to nothing about the technical end of things. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 23 Aug 2000 18:16:07 EDT In a message dated 8/23/00 6:08:58 PM, M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu writes: << I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very frequently in real time computer music. But I also know next to nothing about the technical end of things. >> yeah, that's right. all of the laptop musicians in MIMEO (Fennesz, Pita, Marcus Schmickler, Kaffe Matthews) were running this during the 24 hour show. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino Subject: That's The Way I Feel Now to be reissued Date: 23 Aug 2000 17:17:21 -0500 (CDT) Howdy, A&M / Verve Music Group will be reissuing _That's The way I Feel Now: A Tribute To Thelonius Monk_ sometime in the near future as a 2-CD set. The original CD issue unfortunately omitted Zorn's take on "Shuffle Boil" that was on the original vinyl. Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com GROOVE ---------- One Nation - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Douglas Tapia Subject: Re: two jcs -- trane and carter plus ribot Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:27:12 -0600 >3. To Steve at Cuneiform: You rock, man. Glad to hear you're finally >starting to break even and am grateful for cats like you helping to get >the music out there. If my poor memory isn't failing me again, I have >you to thank for Curlew's tunes hanging out around my pad.... I'll second this. Cuneiform is also responsible for at least the most recent Thinking Plague CD, and DAVE KERMAN/5 UU'S-Purgatories, a truly GREAT release. I know first hand how hard it is financially to make this kind of music, and it must be even worse to run a label specializing in this music. I'm truly greatful that there are champions of creative art who invest both their time and money in a genere whos only reward is the music produced. Thank you Steve, and keep up the good work. Certainally there are many here who support your label and appriciate your efforts. Doug - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: That's The Way I Feel Now to be reissued Date: 23 Aug 2000 15:29:07 -0700 On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:17:21 -0500 (CDT) Paul Audino wrote: > > A&M / Verve Music Group will be reissuing _That's The way I Feel Now: A > Tribute To Thelonius Monk_ sometime in the near future as a 2-CD set. The > original CD issue unfortunately omitted Zorn's take on "Shuffle Boil" that > was on the original vinyl. Wow! That's a fantastic news. "Shuffle Boil" is one of the most amazing cover Zorn ever did. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 23 Aug 2000 20:06:09 -0500 "Kristopher S. Handley" wrote: > >From: Steve Smith > >Another good marker of just how far Trane was beginning to stray from his > >former colleagues can be heard on the magnificent live recordings of the > >Miles > >Davis Quintet captured live in Stockholm in 1960. This has been > >available for > >quite some time as a two CD set on Dragon (as well as half of a four CD > >set, > >the other half from months later and including Sonny Stitt replacing > >Trane). > > I'm very interested in the 2CD set on Dragon, but I haven't been able to > find it, either on Dragon's website, or from any number of online stores. > The quadruple box is still available. Can the double-disc still be found? Hmmmm. A cursory check of Cadence only lists the four-CD version on Dragon as well. And looking again at my two-CD version, it was actually produced by a French company called AVI, under license from Dragon. Maybe Dragon licensed its stuff out during the early CD years, and when they started making their own CDs they decided to only offer the four-CD? I've got a four-CD set from a French label of other dates from the same tour on another label, Jazz 1, and they, too, only offer the pairing of 2 discs of Coltrane and 2 discs of Stitt. Sorry to whet the appetite for something more than you actually wanted... For what it's worth, while considerably more conservative, the Stitt material is also very fine, if you're a big fan of this period of Davis. Apologies, Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Marty Ehrlich, "The Traveller's Tale," 'The Traveller's Tale' (Enja) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Livingston Subject: [off topic] Sound cards for notebooks Date: 23 Aug 2000 17:43:22 -0700 Anyone interested in such topics should check out: www.harmony-central.com/MIDI www.harmony-central.com/Computer and www.digigram.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Armikhinian Date: 23 Aug 2000 21:43:23 -0400 Okay, this is sorta off the wall, but does anyone have any Charles Armikhinian they can loan me, preferable on MP3? In fact, does anyone have a copy of 10+2=12 (the actual record, or a nice CD or MP3 dub) I could trade for? I'd sure appreciate it! Thanks, peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested Date: 23 Aug 2000 22:46:54 -0400 > I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums, > years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting > any of their records! Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks > among the "numbered" albums. Don't know how well this has been covered, but my ABSOLUTE favorite Soft Machine (and perhaps album) ever, is Volume Two. You must know though, that I am coming from a prog background on this, and not a free-jazz background. If you like the free jazzier stuff, you may also like a band called the Muffins, doing similar stuff. I believe they influenced SM quite a bit, but I could be mistaken. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: recommendations, please Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:02:01 +1000 > DAVE DOUGLAS: soul on soul > DAVE DOUGLAS: leap of faith > JOEY BARON: we'll soon find out Probably none would be disappointing... the one I've heard most of is Soul On Soul, and it's pretty amazing. I guess it depends what you're after: that would be my pick if you want interesting larger group arrangements, with great players like Caine and Baron. Leap Of Faith is a bit more quirky and free, and We'll Soon Find Out is quite laid back as you might expect. I just checked out Leap Of Faith at cdnow... considering the (relatively) recent thread regarding Ben Perowsky's drumming, they give him a pretty amusing credit - Ben Perowsky: Drums (Snare) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: stravinsky - original jacket collection Date: 24 Aug 2000 00:17:56 -0400 Just saw a listing for this 9-disc set. Is it a more reasonable selection as opposed to the 22-disc complete set (that's probably more Stravinsky that I need)? Anything important missing other than "The Rake's Progress" and the oratorios? Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sh" Subject: Tribal Tech Shows Date: 24 Aug 2000 00:33:45 -0300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C00D62.F696ADC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, folks. I've been searching for quite some time to find some = live Tribal Tech shows (or live Henderson or Willis) though with no = success. Does anyone have any they'd like to trade? ------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C00D62.F696ADC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings, folks.  I've been searching for = quite some=20 time to find some live Tribal Tech shows (or live Henderson or Willis) = though=20 with no success.  Does anyone have any they'd like to=20 trade?
------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C00D62.F696ADC0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Re:Sponsoring Hat Hut Date: 24 Aug 2000 04:28:28 -0000 On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:14:22 +0200 Pascal Cortes wrote: >I've just learnt that the great swiss label Hat Hut will lose its sponsorship by UBS (a national bank union) at the end of 2000. While there is no dispute that Hat Hut Art continues to be one of the great jazz labels, apparently Werner is not very forthcoming with payment for the artists who record for him... _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma Date: 24 Aug 2000 03:24:01 CDT A few requests for some info/opinons: 1. The new Noel Akchote album RIEN (Winter & Winter), with Erik Minkkinen on computer & Andrew Sharpley on turntables. Is this Erik Minkkinen the same guy as "Erik M"? 2. Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to comment? I read some mildly complimentary comments on the State51/Motion site, I think. His work (I'm guessing) on POIRE Z (For4Ears) is pretty interesting to me. 3. Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or Charhizma catalogs? I just disco(graphy)'d my way to their websites. The names of several of the musicians seem familiar, but much of it looks interesting. The sites are: http://www.charhizma.com http://www.durian.at ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Marsh" Subject: Re: Soft macine/muffins Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:56:44 +0100 Peter wrote; > If you like the free jazzier stuff, you may also like a band called the > Muffins, doing similar stuff. I believe they influenced SM quite a bit, but > I could be mistaken. methinks 'twas probably the other way round. the muffins were an american group (produced on occasion by fred frith) who i don't think emerged till around '79 or so. nice stuff though. cheers Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Gatzen Subject: spillane reissue Date: 24 Aug 2000 01:52:28 -0700 (PDT) it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of Hank Mccain on it, and with Mike Patton doing the vocals...hearing it sent chills down my spine..the booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get this CD even if you own the original. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: spillane reissue Date: 24 Aug 2000 18:54:41 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable << it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of Hank Mccain on it, and with Mike Patton doing the vocals...hearing it sent chills down my spine..the booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get this CD even if you own the original. >> sure, but it's, uh, the Big Gundown, right? ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<< it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of = Hank
Mccain on=20 it, and with Mike Patton doing the
vocals...hearing it sent chills = down my=20 spine..the
booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get = this
CD even=20 if you own the original. >>
 
sure, but it's, uh, the Big Gundown, right?
------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Gatzen Subject: correction:Big Gundown Date: 24 Aug 2000 02:01:15 -0700 (PDT) thats what I get trying to post at 5 AM..sorry folks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:04:10 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Smith writes: Steve> JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: >> the Coltrane record I've probably played the most over the last >> few years is one I don't think's been mentioned yet, Coltrane's >> Sound (Atlantic). great tunes and playing by the classic >> quartet, except Steve Davis is subbing for Jimmy Garrison, and >> it contains the oft-covered, gorgeous Equinox. Steve> Seconded... a gorgeous, gorgeous record, although far more Steve> "inside" than most of what's being mentioned in this Steve> thread. This is pretty staight stuff from the nascent Steve> "classic" quartet, prior to Garrison's arrival. I think Steve> it's the first time Trane used multiphonics on record, as Steve> well. He used them earlier on "Harmonique" (on _Coltrane Jazz_), which was recorded about ten months earlier than the _Coltrane's Sound_ sessions. --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ljova" Subject: winter-winter Site Date: 24 Aug 2000 05:08:32 -0400 Hi. I was previously informed that the website for the 'Winter & Winter' label was: http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de/ But however my browser cannot find it anymore. *sniff* Did they relocate? Or have I mistyped? Thanks, Ljova P.S. A brief plug to tell you that my website, Ljova.com, is updated and there's some interesting improv-related stuff there. Cheers. -------- Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin L@Ljova.com http://Ljova.com "Do not fear mistakes - there are none." -Miles Davis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Berman Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:12:53 +0200 (MET DST) >>>>> "Patrice" == Patrice L Roussel writes: Patrice> A record that was not mentioned and that I think makes Patrice> the transition from "classic" Coltrane to "modern" Patrice> Coltrane, is the amazing OLE. This is maybe the first Patrice> Coltrane record where you detect that he is more than a Patrice> fantastic and inspired player, but that he is also on Patrice> something else. Could it be one of his first "modal" Patrice> record (question for the specialist)? If by modal you mean a reduction of chord changes as a basis for improvising, I think his first as a leader is usually considered to be _My Favorite Things_, recorded about half a year earlier than _Ole_ (and of course he recorded "modal" music still earlier with Miles). --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: winter-winter Site Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:16:27 +0200 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Ljova Aan: Zorn-List Datum: donderdag 24 augustus 2000 11:10 Onderwerp: winter-winter Site >Hi. > >I was previously informed that the website for the 'Winter & Winter' label >was: >http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de/ > >But however my browser cannot find it anymore. *sniff* > >Did they relocate? Or have I mistyped? > >Thanks, > >Ljova > I experienced the same. One time it works, next time it doesn't. What's going on? Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Marsh" Subject: coltrane/sines of the times Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:12:00 +0100 Martin wrote > 1. Trane: Live in Seattle, Impulse. With Pharoah. Terrifying two-LP > set. Have no idea if it's on CD, but props are due. My impression is > that it's somewhat rare. it is on an impulse cd (japanese only, i think) and it is a fantastic, beautiful and terrifying document. it's still the one that pisses people off in my experience...even more so than 'ascension' or the more unfettered episodes on 'meditations'. i would back up the votes for 'stellar regions' and would add 'expression' too - coltrane's last offical recording and notable for the extended flute/piccolo duet with pharoah. lovely, but your cat might not agree. Bill wrote: > << So is anyone infuriating listeners today in > the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this > measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even > possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is > always expected? If so, then where are these points of "anguish?" >> and Jon wrote >I think it's safe to >say that the new wave of electronics improvisers, especially the ones working >with sine waves, have confused and infuriated more than a few long-time avant >improv fans. i'm sure jon wasn't trying to draw a direct comparison with the outrage coltrane provoked (and still is provoking by all accounts), but any controversy that the sinewavers have produced is pretty small beer really. the likes of 'ascension' must have upset many who'd followed jc through his work with miles etc and probably as far as 'a love supreme'. i imagine a lot of people felt betrayed. maybe if radiohead did a free improv record we might see a similar reaction today. as bill suggests, there is so much compartmentalisation of genres these days that the only possible way to upset people is in the mainstream - hook 'em with a tune, then lock the doors (to paraphrase steve lake). to digress slightly, chris cutler told me that one of the few downsides of the rise of small indie labels that specialise in avant garde stuff is that it relieves the majors of any responsibility of catering to the likes of us. this may seem a ridiculous suggestion on the face of it but take a look back pre-punk and what do you find ? on UA - can, amon duul II. on virgin - faust, tony conrad, fred frith, henry cow, robert wyatt. on cbs - terry riley, miles' 70's stuff, hancock's sextant, ray russell. on vertigo - ian carr's nucleus. on rca - keith tippett. just a thought. cheers peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: coltrane/sines of the times Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:22:49 GMT >From: "Peter Marsh" >to digress slightly, chris cutler told me that one of the few downsides of >the rise of small indie labels that specialise in avant garde stuff is that >it relieves the majors of any responsibility of catering to the likes of >us. >this may seem a ridiculous suggestion on the face of it but take a look >back >pre-punk and what do you find ? on UA - can, amon duul II. on virgin - >faust, tony conrad, fred frith, henry cow, robert wyatt. on cbs - terry >riley, miles' 70's stuff, hancock's sextant, ray russell. on vertigo - ian >carr's nucleus. on rca - keith tippett. just a thought. In these days of the "downsizing" of the avant-garde, shoveling the responsibility to the indies was inevitable. The majors pretty much lost interest in this music in the nineties, or rather, everything got reduced to "use-value" and the balance sheets, whereas in the seventies there was always the potential for a groundbreaking artist coming along in the rock fringe to keep the majors on their toes and the executives worried about keeping their jobs. That and the fact that their weren't as many indies then, and the number of artists producing was comparatively smaller. I agree with your other point that sine waves are small change when compared to the controversies surrounding Coltrane and Coleman. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Lounge Lizards Date: 24 Aug 2000 12:25:48 GMT Hey, I stopped listening to Lounge Lizards long time ago, but suddenly started wondering what they are up to... Any good albums since, say, 1990? Also, there was some talk few weeks ago here, about an open letter from John Lurie to The Knitting Factory (???) or something like that. I'd be interested in reading it. Could anybody send it to me or guide towards it with an adress, perhaps... Thanks. ARTUHR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 24 Aug 2000 12:34:10 GMT Hello again, All this talk about sponsorship made me wonder about Tzadik. Anybody know how that works finacially? I hope they don't run out of money anytime in the near future. But they seem to be doing fine, considering they are still releasing about a million albums every year. I remember hearing long time ago, when Tzadik was just starting up, that everybody (better make that "everybody") got 5000 US dollar to make their CD, which should be enough for one day in the studio. Makes sense, since most of my Tzadik CDs actually are recorded in just one day. I wonder if that still holds... Also, are they still not doing any kind of advertising, promotion CDs and so? How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends, but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself... Anybody has any info about all this? Just curious... ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:05:44 +0200 -----Original Message----- Hello again, How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends, but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself... Anybody has any info about all this? (stefan) Correct me if I am wrong, but someone on this list talked about this with Zorn, and the answer was like this: -tzadik pays for the recording (like you mentioned) -the artist gets half of the profit of the sales and tzadik gets the other 50% (And that 50% is divided between zorn, kazunori sagayima or something like that and onother person who works for the tzadik label). Best wishes, Stefan Verstraeten NP Masonna: Frequency LSD (When I hear this guy "sing", Mike Patton sounds like a pussy)... god, I like japanese noise music..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:08:55 EDT According to a Zorn interview from July, Tzadik still operates on a $5000 per CD budget. Zorn executive produces and chooses every CD released through the label. After the initial $5000 is recouped from sales, the profits are split 50/50 between the label and the artists. My guess is Zorn uses his 50% of each album's profits to run the label and fund other projects. "Bar Kohkba" is the most successful disc Tzadik has released to date, with over 30,000 units sold. Since Zorn is the composer, he sees 100% of the profits from that album, right? And since it's a double CD that retails for around $20, my guess is he clears about $10 for each copy of "Bar Kohkba." That translates into about $300,000. Now, that doesn't mean Zorn is getting rich from Tzadik. He's obviously taken a HUGE chunk of that money and sunk it into releasing discs by artists who will never sell even 1000 units. He's probably taking a loss on a bunch of Tzadik artists, but he obviously feels it's important to release them. That to me makes Tzadik the coolest independent record company on the planet. (Didn't somebody say that about Hat recently?) I'm not sure who he pays to do his accounting or how much the label spends on promotion. I've never seen a Tzadik ad in any magazine. Their web page is the only marketing I've seen. The costs to maintain that are pretty minimal, I would assume. Back to work, Tom NP: Will the Circle Be Unbroken, Volume Two In a message dated 8/24/00 8:34:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, a_gadney@hotmail.com writes: << Hello again, All this talk about sponsorship made me wonder about Tzadik. Anybody know how that works finacially? I hope they don't run out of money anytime in the near future. But they seem to be doing fine, considering they are still releasing about a million albums every year. I remember hearing long time ago, when Tzadik was just starting up, that everybody (better make that "everybody") got 5000 US dollar to make their CD, which should be enough for one day in the studio. Makes sense, since most of my Tzadik CDs actually are recorded in just one day. I wonder if that still holds... Also, are they still not doing any kind of advertising, promotion CDs and so? How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends, but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself... Anybody has any info about all this? Just curious... ARTHUR_G >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: thanks & Soft Machine Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:22:01 EDT All, thanks for the nice words about Cuneiform's releases. It's very nice to know that our very hard work is appreciated - esp. artists like T. Plague & Kerman/5uu's, which I would not necessarily think would be of interest to the folks who read this list. >I am coming from a prog background on this, and not a free-jazz background. >If you like the free jazzier stuff, you may also like a band called the >Muffins, doing similar stuff. I believe they influenced SM quite a bit, >but >I could be mistaken. The Muffins were a Soft Machine *influenced* band. The Softs were definitely first - their best period, imo, stretches from about 1968-72, while the Muffins were active from about 1974-81. And, btw, since it came up, we *always* pay our artists. Every six months they receive a royalty statement & a check that matches the statement. All without any help from millionaires... Steve/ Cuneiform - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Trane: Live in Seattle Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:35:49 -0400 >> 1. Trane: Live in Seattle, Impulse. With Pharoah. Terrifying two-LP >> set. Have no idea if it's on CD, but props are due. My impression is >> that it's somewhat rare. > it is on an impulse cd (japanese only, i think) Actually, it's a US release, two CDs, with prev. unreleased tracks. The big internet stores have it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: stravinsky - original jacket collection Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:36:49 +0200 > Just saw a listing for this 9-disc set. Is it a more reasonable selection > as opposed to the 22-disc complete set (that's probably more Stravinsky > that I need)? Anything important missing other than "The Rake's Progress" > and the oratorios? I must say that because of technical reasons neither of those works do shine in stravionsky's versions. As for the 'Rake's progress', get the (quite) new Gardiner version. Bryn Terfel who does Shadow just kills, and everyone is great - really fantastic perforammnces by all soloist, the moneteverdi choir, and Gardiner/LSO. But Terfel as Shadow is the real star here. The Nagano version of it is also ok - it has very loud violin section, and sounds very dynamic. I've heard the ozawa version only once, but it sounded quite interesting (Ian Bostridge who plays Rakewell in Gardiner's version does some minor role here - Sellem, I believe). Never heard the Chailly version available on Decca. Gardiner version is a must. BTW, i'm preparing a website deidicated to that opera. I'll let you know... There's a great version of Oedipus Rex by Ozawa with Jessey Norman. Great. As for stravinsky's versions, the finest performances IMO are Petroushka (an incredible version) L'histoire du soldat, and the symphonies (especially in 3 parts). i think they should be included in the box: if any of these works are missing in the new box, avoid it (but i do not think they do) Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Sine waves Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:18:57 +0200 Could one of you explain what those sine waves are? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:20:27 +0200 Jon wrote: > yeah, that's right. all of the laptop musicians in MIMEO (Fennesz, Pita, > Marcus Schmickler, Kaffe Matthews) were running this during the 24 hour show. What is Suppercollider? (I'm about to become a laptop musician...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint Subject: Re: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma Date: 24 Aug 2000 16:00:02 +0200 thesubtlebody@hotmail.com said: > 1. The new Noel Akchote album RIEN (Winter & Winter), with Erik > Minkkinen on computer & Andrew Sharpley on turntables. Is this Erik > Minkkinen the same guy as "Erik M"? No, they are two different people. Erik Minkkinen used to be in Sister Iodine (or still is? I don't know what they've been up to lately). I didn't have time to listen to this album closely yet, but if you liked "Alike Joseph" on Rectangle or his track on the excellent compilation "Strings & Stings" you know what to expect. > 2. Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to > comment? "Zygosis" is a really good CD. I had seen him a few times previously and began to find his solo set a little predictable, but there were many good surprises on this CD: a great variety, a good sense of humor... Another nice -- and very different -- Erik M CD is the "Frame" 3" CD on Metamkine, where he plunders the whole "Cinema pour l'oreille" collection in a 20-minute piece. -- Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #20 Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:00:21 -0500 (CDT) > In a message dated 8/23/00 6:08:58 PM, M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu writes: > << I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very > frequently > in real time computer music. But I also know next to nothing about the > technical end of things. >> then jon writes: > yeah, that's right. all of the laptop musicians in MIMEO (Fennesz, Pita, > Marcus Schmickler, Kaffe Matthews) were running this during the 24 hour show. so then i ask: i just did a quick peek for supercollider on the web; i didn't find a homepage, but the tutorials i saw make supercollider look a lot like Csound. however, Csound doesn't do realtime processing (although it's in the works). Supercollider runs on Macs; Csound runs on Linux, Mac, and Windows. The former costs money, the latter is free. is there anyone out there familiar with Csound and Supercollider who could offer a more detailed comparison? whit ps - yes, i'm thinking about what kind of laptop to buy... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Sine waves Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:23:16 -0400 > Could one of you explain what those sine waves are? It's the "purest" sound tone, on paper/oscilloscope it looks like the graph of a sine function (basically a completely regular/predictable up and down wave) thus the name. Sort of a beeeeeeee with no overtones, dirtiness, whathaveyou. I don't think audio sine waves occur naturally but could be wrong. Sine waves of different frequencies or that are out of sync will create interference patterns as well. Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Odp: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:22:53 -0400 At 3:20 PM +0200 8/24/00, Marcin Gokieli wrote: > >What is Suppercollider? (I'm about to become a laptop musician...) > At 9:00 AM -0500 8/24/00, Whit Schonbein wrote: >ps - yes, i'm thinking about what kind of laptop to buy... > I'm with Whit and Marcin in wanting to hear more about Csound and Supercollider. But I'll also contribute these suggestions: BackToBasics is a shareware program (Mac/Win) that maps sampled sounds to keys on your laptop's keyboard. I use it a lot. It also gives you pitch, volume, and looping control on each key, and a pitch-bending strip as well. Not real-time recording, but real-time performing. http://www.reinformation.com/ If you go the Mac route, there's a lot of interesting shareware out there for audio manipulation. (I'm sure there's a lot for the PC side as well; I'm just not that familiar with it.) SoundSculptor II is great for multitrack recording/manipulation (http://members.aol.com/sculptorii/) and Sound Studio (http://www.felttip.com/products/soundstudio) is great for direct-to-disk stereo recording, editing, and some manipulation. Best wishes for getting your systems noise-ready. Personally, very happy with my G3 Firewire 400, Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: supercollider Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:25:01 EDT In a message dated 8/24/00 10:05:23 AM, whit@twinearth.wustl.edu writes: << i just did a quick peek for supercollider on the web; i didn't find a homepage, but the tutorials i saw make supercollider look a lot like Csound. however, Csound doesn't do realtime processing (although it's in the works). Supercollider runs on Macs; Csound runs on Linux, Mac, and Windows. The former costs money, the latter is free. is there anyone out there familiar with Csound and Supercollider who could offer a more detailed comparison? >> you might want to take questions like this to the microsound list, which is full of laptop musicians, including most of the Ritornell roster. to join, send a message to microsound-subscribe@hyperreal.org. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: thanks & Soft Machine Date: 24 Aug 2000 19:31:38 -0700 >>>Every six months they receive a royalty statement & a check that matches the statement. All without any help from millionaires...<<< I'm a millionaire, and I buy your CDs. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 19:34:14 -0700 >>>What is Suppercollider?<<< It's when the gravy leaks through the side of the mashed potatoes and runs into the peas. (I'll stop now.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:45:45 EDT In a message dated 8/24/00 4:25:50 AM, thesubtlebody@hotmail.com writes: << Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to comment? I read some mildly complimentary comments on the State51/Motion site, I think. His work (I'm guessing) on POIRE Z (For4Ears) is pretty interesting to me.>> it's pretty good, but doesn't fully capture how great he can be live. his 20 minute solo performance at Otomo's Music Unlimited festival in Austria last year was one of the best sets in the festival. there's a long track near the end that reminds me of godspeed you black emperor!, which is kind of funny. it's out of print, at least from Sonoris directly, but maybe you can turn one up. << Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or Charhizma catalogs?>> my favorite Durian CDs are: Burkhard Stangl-Recital Efzeg-Grain Werner Dafeldecker/Uli Fusseneger/Dieter Kovacic-Printer the only Charhizma CD I'd unconditionally recommend is the self-titled Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz/O'Rourke/Drumm/Siewert (now finally available in the US through Dutch East India and Other Music, along with the rest of the Charhizma catalog). Martin Siewert's Komfort 2000 is also pretty good. also, Polwechsel 2 (hat (now) ART), is essential if you're beginning to investigate this scene. but honestly, the best CD to start with, if you haven't heard any of this stuff, is the Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee (Erstwhile). I think it's the CD I'm the most proud of releasing so far. any other opinions out there on this one, or on any of these? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Ong Subject: Re: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:27:32 -0400 > Charhizma catalog). Martin Siewert's Komfort 2000 is also pretty good. Did this disc grow on you? I should probably give it another listen today. I've only listened to it once, but I felt the players rocked out too much. Normally I guess that's not a bad thing, but it made this record sound a bit cheesy in the overdramatic sense. Maybe the keyboard playing (by a z-list favorite btw) is what blew it for me. Kind of the same goes for some sections of the Efzeg record on Durian. I liked about 2/3rds of that disc. The Siewert track on the dafeldecker/kurzmann/o'rourke/etc disc is lovely though. Probably one of my favorite musical moments ever comes during the last Drumm track, about half way in, where all the noise climaxes and you can just barely hear a clarinet squeaking away underneath (which eventually gets sampled I think and looped in semi-Evan Parker style). I actually thought this track was going to blow out my speakers the first time I listened to it. It gets really loud really fast. Definitely in agreement here with Julien about Erik M's 3" CD (superb and fresh) and with Jon about the Schnee disc. The Schnee disc deserves a better commentator, but I'll just say if it's not making any sense right now and you're wondering what the big deal is, just keep listening. Some perseverance needed. -eric. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: thanks & Soft Machine Date: 24 Aug 2000 08:39:01 -0700 On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:22:01 EDT CuneiWay@aol.com wrote: > > The Muffins were a Soft Machine *influenced* band. The Softs were definitely > first - their best period, imo, stretches from about 1968-72, while the > Muffins were active from about 1974-81. Aren't they currently touring? I read that they were playing at a festival in France. Patrice (who can't get rid of the idea that Steve was playing at once with the Muffins, due maybe to the track on A RANDOM SAMPLER)). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Sine waves Date: 24 Aug 2000 08:50:02 -0700 On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:18:57 +0200 "Marcin Gokieli" wrote: > > Could one of you explain what those sine waves are? Sine waves are the "atoms" of every sound. This means that every sound can be written as a combination of sine waves. By themselves, sine waves are quite boring since they have no harmonic content. But some artists have been making some exciting music with it (although I am pretty sure that using sounds with a richer content would not hurt the quality of the music, since, in my opinion, the use of sine waves is not what makes their music so interesting). Patrice. PS: to be rigourous, nobody really uses "pure" sine waves since for deserving this label they should have infinite temporal extension; in fact, most of the sine wave artists use glitches which are almost as far away from sine waves as you can imagine. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: the muffins Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:55:36 EDT >> The Muffins were a Soft Machine *influenced* band. The Softs were definitely >> first - their best period, imo, stretches from about 1968-72, while the >> Muffins were active from about 1974-81. >Aren't they currently touring? I read that they were playing at a festival >in France. Actually, yes - for the last 3 years they have had reunion concerts in D.C. & last month they actually made it to NYC [Knitting Factory] and a jazz fest in Rome that had a Knitting Factory-sponsored stage [where Doctor Nerve also appeared]. Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: SCHNEE, and more sine-us problems Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:05:59 CDT >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >...but honestly, the best CD to start with, if you haven't heard any of >this >stuff, is the Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee (Erstwhile). I think >it's the CD I'm the most proud of releasing so far. any other opinions out >there on this one, or on any of these? I've ordered SCHNEE, mostly on the strength of a terrific analytical review on this list by Matthew Wirzbicki, from about one month ago. (In the archives, July 2000, http://www.browbeat.com//zornlist.html#Archive). Just thought I'd mention that for those who missed it the first time around. Can we re-visit Lang Thompson's question, for those of us who haven't caught much list discussion on the topic of sine wave _performance_ practices since the hubbub about ISO's (?) perf at Victoriaville. I believe Lang asked how sine waves are turned into performance sound, and how this is improvisation. How different can sine waves be from one another? And isn't it a pretty inflexible medium? Doesn't it veer perilously close to novelty-item territory, like a special effect (i.e. theremin)? -----s, re-sined to knowing next to nothing about sine ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Sponsoring Hat Hut Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:07:38 -0700 On 24 Aug 2000 04:28:28 -0000 "Tim Keenliside" wrote: > > While there is no dispute that Hat Hut Art continues to be > one of the great jazz labels, apparently Werner is not > very forthcoming with payment for the artists who record > for him... Strange, I never heard anything like that. I heard a (very) few complaints, but never related to not being paid. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Sponsoring Hat Hut Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:18:33 -0400 I had a short email correspondence with someone who works closely with Anthony Braxton about Braxton House and other issues and here's a snippet: "I wouldn't ellaborate here about Braxton's experiences, but I know that Hat Art are onme of the biggest thiefs in this business." Dan Hewins At 10:07 AM -0700 8/24/00, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: >On 24 Aug 2000 04:28:28 -0000 "Tim Keenliside" wrote: >> >> While there is no dispute that Hat Hut Art continues to be >> one of the great jazz labels, apparently Werner is not >> very forthcoming with payment for the artists who record >> for him... > >Strange, I never heard anything like that. I heard a (very) >few complaints, but never related to not being paid. > > Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: SCHNEE, and more sine-us problems Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:50:02 EDT In a message dated 8/24/00 12:06:54 PM, thesubtlebody@hotmail.com writes: << Can we re-visit Lang Thompson's question, for those of us who haven't caught much list discussion on the topic of sine wave _performance_ practices since the hubbub about ISO's (?) perf at Victoriaville. >> yeah, I was going to try to answer this, I just hadn't gotten to it yet. what I was thinking of with my original post about sine wave improvisers was that ISO concert at Victo. upon further reflection, there aren't really that many people improvising with "pure tone" electronics, most of them are more in the sound construction or sound art field. Sachiko and Otomo (both in ISO) are probably the two most prominent, although (to briefly combine two threads) Werner Dafeldecker uses them on the Dean Roberts collaboration I released yesterday. two sets of questions: <> <> I don't know the technical definitions so maybe someone else can step in here. it's improvised in that the musicians alter the music live as the show progresses, just like any other improv. Ryoji Ikeda's shows in the past have consisted of basically pressing play on a CD he's put together beforehand, then sitting back and listening. this is obviously not improvising. but Otomo and Sachiko especially are constantly introducing new sounds and altering other ones in real time. as for how much range they have or whether they're a novelty item, I guess it partially depends on the listener and how much difference they hear between them, plus how good the musicians are. when Otomo and Sachiko started exploring this territory a couple of years ago, their first CD, Filament 1 (Extreme) was pretty one-dimensional, but they've since gone on to much better things. if you're really interested in this topic, my words and explanations can't really do it justice; check out the ISO CD on Alcohol, preferably on a good sound system. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JSub@aol.com Subject: Re: Tzadik Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:53:18 EDT > According to a Zorn interview from July, What interview? Did I miss something on the newstands? Jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Tzadik Date: 24 Aug 2000 14:01:02 EDT In a message dated 8/24/00 1:54:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JSub@aol.com writes: << > According to a Zorn interview from July, What interview? Did I miss something on the newstands? Jeff >> It was aired on the BBC. Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dann-Brown" Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 24 Aug 2000 14:13:13 -0400 > I'm not sure who he pays to do his accounting or how much the label spends on > promotion. I've never seen a Tzadik ad in any magazine. Their web page is > the only marketing I've seen. The costs to maintain that are pretty minimal, > I would assume. When I order from the Tzadik website, DtMG always includes a Tzadik pamphlet that lists every album released by the label as well as upcoming releases. It's the only promotional thingy (a technical term) I've ever seen from them. But then again, do they need glossy half-page color ads? We zornthologists do a good enough job pushing releases thru word-of-mouth. don't we? ------- Dann-Brown np: Carcass - "Necroticism" ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 14:09:37 EDT hey, i can reccomend Audiomulch for anyone looking to work with computers in windows. Great Real Time Processing, for sound editing I reccomend CoolEdit, but most sound editing software programs are the same, unless somebody knows about somethin I don't. from, matt MP3.com - matt wellins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 24 Aug 2000 14:23:51 EDT i live down near orlando florida and i am one of those fortunate souls that happens to have a local cd store that carries quite a bit of zorn/tzadik (and other related) material. the suprising thing is that it seems to sell. i am constantly seeing new material and on quite a few occasions i have muttered "F***, they just had it here yesterday!" it is nice to see artists such as marc ribot at one of those nifty listening posts, and suprisingly enough a good portion of those that work there are knowledgable of the music. i also enjoy the fact that i can go purchase a cd any particular day and HAVE IT IN MY HAND without having to wait for it to be shipped to me. There are times when i question whether or not i should be buying from the record store or from tzadik directly, but wouldn't the world be a better place if more stores carried the music we listen to? anyway, i rambled quite a bit, but the point was that zorn and tzadik sell....not as much as mtv supported bands, but they still sell. dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: Sponsoring Hat Hut Date: 24 Aug 2000 21:01:54 +0200 > I had a short email correspondence with someone who works closely > with Anthony Braxton about Braxton House and other issues and here's > a snippet: "I wouldn't ellaborate here about Braxton's experiences, > but I know that Hat Art are onme of the biggest thiefs in this > business." > only thing I can say is let's Braxton elaborate by himself when/if he wants about ALL his experiences in the business. _________________ Francesco Martinelli Lungarno Mediceo 10 56127 PISA ITALY email: fmartinelli@tin.it webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/ fax 0039 050 313 75 02 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: ZYGOSIS, durian, charhizma, sinewavers Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:16:54 -0600 Kristopher, >2. Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to >comment? His work (I'm guessing) on POIRE Z (For4Ears) is pretty >interesting to me. I like ZYGOSIS quite a bit. I love track 8. There are also some great tracks toward the end. Many of the tracks are very short noises (like 3-4 seconds...some may be 20). I just find it incredibly entertaining. There are a couple of hilarious moments toward the beginning but by the end there's a track that you don't want to play loud late at night in the dark. Very different from his contributions to POIRE Z (obviously) but I also recommend this record even though its rather hard to make heads or tails of who's who sound wise. 3. Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or Charhizma catalogs? I just recieved Stangl's "Recital" from anomalous yesterday. I listened to it last night but I think I made the mistake of breaking up my listening. I think soon I'll listen to it in a single sitting. The booming piano at the end of track three got me pretty excited after the first ten minutes of what I'm guessing is an e-bow + detuning? (any help Jon?/anyone?). Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz + "guitarists" is great. (I think anomalous may have just recieved copies of this as well). I have "printer" (Dafeldecker/Fusseneger/Kovacic) but need to listen to it more. Tracks 2-4 are remixes by the various performers of the first track which was recorded live. ISO's self titled disc is also highly recommended although this is a different ball of wax in many ways. BTW- If anyone is thinking of looking at Ikeda's sine wave material I would recommend +/- on Touch. O degrees C is also good but in a different way. My favorite Ikeda moment comes in the last three tracks of this disc. hope this helps, Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: thanks & Soft Machine Date: 24 Aug 2000 16:42:20 +0000 on 8/25/00 2:31 AM, s~Z at keith@pfmentum.com wrote: > I'm a millionaire, and I buy your CDs. I need a new turntable. When I try to clean a disc on mine, the slightest pressure stops the table dead. Is this not inexcusable for a supposed discographer??!?? Would you like my shipping address? Thanks, RL -- Marilyn CRISPELL, Susie IBARRA, William PARKER, Sam RIVERS, Matthew SHIPP, David S. WARE, and Reggie WORKMAN Discographies-- Samuel Beckett Eulogy --Baseball & the 10,000 Things --Time Stops --LOVETORN --HARD BOIL --etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: vids, a few CDs, baseball books, a few Cadence back issues, a few more CDs... ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:51:22 -0500 "Jim McLoughlin" wrote: When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections? What kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds? There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav (for MAC and PC). Any info or links appreciated... As Jon mentioned, the main software packages used by folks doing live real time DSP, as well as interactive computer programs, etc are MAX, LiSa,and Supercollider. For better or for worse, there's little like these programs for PCs). There is pretty much true parity between the platforms on the more standard types of sequencers, digital recorders and much other MIDI-specific software (& as usual there are pluses and minuses for specific software on the different platforms). & for at least some composers & performers, this is enough, as they really only use their computers as a playback system. But that's not what programs like MAX do. None of the people who write MAX, LiSa, etc. want to make Windows versions, apparently because of extreme differences in the OS architecture. There are a number of real-time algorithmic/modular synth and signal processing programs for PCs, but I don't know of many people who are using them to do much that sounds particularly progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.) Some links: for MAX try and For LiSa & other goodies from STEIM: http://www.steim.nl/products.html For Supercollider: Tom Erbe (SoundHack and other Signal processors) I can provide links for composers who've been using these programs long since the recent outbreak of laptop performers, but it'll take some time to pull it together. If I don't hear back from the veterinarian soon, I may send it out tonight. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions Date: 24 Aug 2000 16:11:20 CDT I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California E.A.R. Unit (who are these guys?), the other the premier recording (methinks) on HatArt with Eberhard ____ and a couple other musicians. Has anyone had the time to check both out? Is either noticeably superior? Isn't there expanded media on the Bridge edition? Thanks, as always, in advance, -----s, millionaire, generous with advances ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "H." Subject: Re: Sine waves Date: 24 Aug 2000 17:25:36 -0400 give a listen to ryoji ikeda... http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1358953741/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/po psearch.html out H - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 16:44:17 -0500 In addition to the great stuff Herb mentioned, I should add that I personally use MOTU's Digital Performer (http://www.motu.com/english/software/dp/body.html) for real-time digital effects processing, and it works wonderfully! DP has an 'audio monitor' feature which will allow me to not only monitor the audio input coming through on a record-enabled channel, but also lets me apply effects to that channel in real-time. On Thu, Aug 24, 2000, Herb Levy wrote: >"Jim McLoughlin" wrote: > >When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the >majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections? What >kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds? >There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav >(for MAC and PC). > >Any info or links appreciated... > > >As Jon mentioned, the main software packages used by folks doing live >real time DSP, as well as interactive computer programs, etc are MAX, >LiSa,and Supercollider. For better or for worse, there's little like >these programs for PCs). > >There is pretty much true parity between the platforms on the more >standard types of sequencers, digital recorders and much other >MIDI-specific software (& as usual there are pluses and minuses for >specific software on the different platforms). & for at least some >composers & performers, this is enough, as they really only use their >computers as a playback system. But that's not what programs like MAX >do. > >None of the people who write MAX, LiSa, etc. want to make Windows >versions, apparently because of extreme differences in the OS >architecture. There are a number of real-time algorithmic/modular >synth and signal processing programs for PCs, but I don't know of >many people who are using them to do much that sounds particularly >progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using >Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly >be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.) > >Some links: > >for MAX try > > > >and > > > >For LiSa & other goodies from STEIM: > >http://www.steim.nl/products.html > >For Supercollider: > > > > >Tom Erbe (SoundHack and other Signal processors) > > > >I can provide links for composers who've been using these programs >long since the recent outbreak of laptop performers, but it'll take >some time to pull it together. If I don't hear back from the >veterinarian soon, I may send it out tonight. > >Bests, > >Herb >-- >Herb Levy >P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 >817 377-2983 >herb@eskimo.com > >- > > | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | http://www.mp3.com/craque | | | | http://www.metatronpress.com | | http://www.mp3.com/graycode | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions Date: 24 Aug 2000 17:59:29 -0400 Kristopher S. Handley wrote: > > I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic > FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California E.A.R. > Unit (who are these guys?), the other the premier recording (methinks) on > HatArt with Eberhard ____ and a couple other musicians. Has anyone had the > time to check both out? Is either noticeably superior? Isn't there > expanded media on the Bridge edition? I've only got the Bridge version which indeed comes with an enhanced CD which is basically past of a Feldman lecture about his music, acompanied, if I'm remembering correctly, some animated graphics. The EAR unit (for this recording) is Dorothy Stone/flute, Arthur Jarvinen/percussion and Gloria Cheng-Cochran/piano & celeste. imo, a spectacular piece of music, though I've heard that each version has its champions. Brian Olewnick NP: AEC--Les Stances a Sophie. Finally available on disc! I can die happy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 18:14:00 -0400 As a music geek/current music major/somewhat knowledgeable person about technical stuff, I've been meaning to chime on this thread, but now is the first chance I've had. I hope I can be of some use. Sine waves are basically the simplest waveforms of sound in that they have only frequency (pitch) and amplitude (volume) but no harmonic content. It's hard to explain this without getting too involved, but basically, all sounds, even pitched ones, contain energy at many frequencies. The lowest (pitched) and loudest is the fundamental, the "note" you hear. But you also hear other tones in harmonic relation to the fundamental at higher frequencies. These are called "partials" or "harmonics," and what we hear as harmony is based on the simple frequency ratios between these partials. Which harmonics are heard and at what amplitude determines timbre, as does attack and decay (how a sound reaches max volume and then falls off). "Noise" is sound in which the partials are not in simple harmonic relation. A graph of those kinds of sounds would look like a really squiggly line going up and down. Sine waves, when graphed, look like a simple little up and down wave, and they have no partials. That is, there is only sound at one frequency. In theory, you can combine sine waves to make all other sounds (this is known as "additive synthesis"), but the realities of nature make this unconvincing (as you know if you've heard a digital synth imitating any acoustic instrument). I'd imagine there's plenty of articles on the web if you look up "acoustics" or "sine waves." As for Supercollider, I'm probably taking a course in just that program this semester. So needless to say, it's quite involved. My experience with it so far is fairly limited, but it's basically a programming language designed for audio. That is, you can set up all kinds of operators for synthesis and processing, and you can adjust a million parameters. It's good for real-time performance because you can write programs that essentially function as instruments, assigning the mouse axes to certain functions and the keys to triggers. So you could, say, very simply, make a program where moving the mouse to the right raises the pitch of a sine wave, and moving the mouse up makes it louder. If you investigate the Supercollider more, you can of course make much more complicated stuff. Someone else gave the URL, which is www.audiosynth.com . It's Mac only, and I think there's a demo/trial version you can download. You may be able to see an explanation of some of the stuff it does too, ut I'm not sure. I believe CSound is a synthesis program, but I'm not sure. I've heard MAX/MSP mentioned a lot by the new laptop people (Mego, etc.), but I have no experience with it. I'm not sure if it's used for synthesis, but I'm pretty sure it has some tweakable sequencing functions. A composer who came to my school used it to control some motors, and he had a GUI that he could use to bring up the speed of each motor, or multiple ones in tandem. Aesthetically speaking, I think Ryoji Ikeda does some great stuff with sine waves and other simple stuff, like white noise and rhythmic pulses. +/- is basically considered a near-masterpiece by a lot of people. Someone asked what you can do with sine waves, and this is a good example. The record sounds different from different places in the room, because the sine waves combine in different ways depending on which speaker you're closer too. So just sine waves and panning can produce really cool effects. You can move one place and get extreme volume and have near silence somewhere else. Actually, I was once playing a CD of some sine wave stuff I did, and I thought it was quite soft. But the girl next door complained about the loud bass. I realized that where I was, the low tones were canceling each other out, but they were amplified where she was. Anyway, what you can "do" with sine waves, aside from where you put them spatially, is really just set the pitch. And of course when you start and stop each one, no small thing in good improv. I can't really think of too many improvisers specifically using sine waves that were mentioned. Sachiko M uses a sine wave sampler, as mentioned. And various lap-toppers throw them in too. There's also a bunch of rock bands with sine-wave oscillators in their setups. Simeon's setup in the Silver Apples was basically a lot of sine-wave oscillators working together, and I know Pelt uses one. There's plenty of academic/"serious" people using them too. Lamonte Young's uses them in all the pieces where he sings with sine waves, causing beating effects (rhythmic cancellation of the sound by out-of phase sine waves). And Alvin Lucier uses them in various pieces that involve beating as well, although I can't think of which ones would be well known and/or on record. Yeah, anyway. Please excuse the rambling. I didn't get enough sleep last night. Any more technical/acoustic questions, try me, and I'll see if I can fake an answer. -Jesse ----- Original Message ----- Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 6:06 PM > >After reading some of the articles on the erstwhile site, I am > >interested in figuring out a little more detail about the > >equipment/resources used in this kind of music. > > I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very frequently > in real time computer music. But I also know next to nothing about the > technical end of things. > > Matt Wirzbicki > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Ianaro" Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 23:05:40 GMT I started writing an email to the list, but it ended up being posted up on my webpage. It's got a good bit of info on DSP and software and Hardware that I threw together for all the people on the list who are interested so please check it out. http://members.xoom.com/liquidgroove/dsp.html Glenn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 24 Aug 2000 19:52:22 -0400 > I'm not sure who he pays to do his accounting or how much the label spends on > promotion. I've never seen a Tzadik ad in any magazine. Their web page is > the only marketing I've seen. The costs to maintain that are pretty minimal, > I would assume. Because of their tight budget, Tzadik doesn't do press releases, promos, or ads. I guess the quality of recordings is good enough that they're sought out. Alan Lankin lankina@att.net --- jazzmatazz == http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: Sponsoring Tzadik Date: 25 Aug 2000 01:57:37 -0000 The tale I heard re: Tzadik was that Nike (Japan) wanted Zorn to compose music for a 30 second TV commercial, which he initially turned down, but after Nike offered an outrageously high sum of money, Zorn relented since he realised it was enough to start his own label, and actually pay production costs for over 100 releases.. _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions Date: 24 Aug 2000 21:46:20 -0500 There are now three recorded versions of For Philip Guston: The Hat Art with Eberhard Blum - flutes, Nils Vigeland - keyboards, & Jan Williams - mallet percussion (now out of print, I think) The Bridge disc with California EAR Unit: Dorothy Stone -flutes, Gloria Cheng-Cochran, keyboards, & Arthur Jarvinen, mallet percussion (with a recording of Feldman's introduction to the work from a concert & some photos available on CD-R) & a very new release on Dog w/a Bone with SEM Ensemble: Petr Kotik, flutes, Joseph Kubera, keyboards, & Chris Nappi, mallet percussion The Hat Art discs are played by the musicians for whom the work was composed, which might matter to some folks. It's also a very dry,close recording, very little reverberation or room sound - for a work like this, which requires closer listening than many others, I like the fact that it sounds close to natural where I hear it. With less of the recorded ambience of where it was recorded, I can more easily hear the instruments comparatively transparently. Total time of the performance: 4 hours, 25 minutes The Bridge discs have a lot of room sound; this may be a live recording. The performance is a bit faster than the Hat discs, total time is 4 hours, 8.5 minutes. The CD-R audio of Feldman's intro to the piece is very good, offering some information about his relationship with Guston as well as some of his thoughts on the music and its scale. The SEM recording is the slowest total time of the performance is 4 hours, 48 minutes. I've only heard this recording once, but again the overall recorded sound seems distinct from the others. The instruments sound less separate than on the Hat discs, but there's less reverberation than the EAR Unit recording. The interview between Kotik and Walter Zimmerman provides a lot of useful information on the SEM's approach to the work and the group's history of performing the piece. (this text is available, along with many other interviews, articles, and talks by and about Feldman, as well as a full list of works, discography and other useful items, at the Feldman Web site ). I've lived with the first recording longest, and they fit the kind of recorded sound I usually like best for chamber music, but each of the recordings seems an adequate representation of the work. It's hard to imagine -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sebastian blume" Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions Date: 25 Aug 2000 04:52:46 +0200 try the hat-art edition it`s absolutely the best recorded version of a piece you shouldnīt record. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: "Brian Olewnick" An: "Kristopher S. Handley" Cc: Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. August 2000 23:59 Betreff: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions > Kristopher S. Handley wrote: > > > > I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic > > FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California E.A.R. > > Unit (who are these guys?), the other the premier recording (methinks) on > > HatArt with Eberhard ____ and a couple other musicians. Has anyone had the > > time to check both out? Is either noticeably superior? Isn't there > > expanded media on the Bridge edition? > > I've only got the Bridge version which indeed comes with an enhanced CD > which is basically past of a Feldman lecture about his music, > acompanied, if I'm remembering correctly, some animated graphics. The > EAR unit (for this recording) is Dorothy Stone/flute, Arthur > Jarvinen/percussion and Gloria Cheng-Cochran/piano & celeste. imo, a > spectacular piece of music, though I've heard that each version has its > champions. > > Brian Olewnick > > NP: AEC--Les Stances a Sophie. Finally available on disc! I can die > happy. > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Schuller" Subject: Cobra in Seattle 8/26 Date: 24 Aug 2000 20:26:41 PDT Here it is, our biggest show ever. I hope that everyone and their Grandmother can come to this show. 26 musicians in 2 rooms performing 8 game pieces and fire performers Thermogenesis outside. Improvisation with film, TV, hand signals, notebooks, flash cards and silly hats. This show has even gotten recommended writeups in both The Weekly (pg. 52) AND The Stranger (pg. 55). I hope to see you there!! Strategic Improv Labs 2000* and Consolidated Works presents : Saturday, August 26, 8:30 p.m. A N I G H T O F M U S I C A L G A M E S C O N S O L I D A T E D W O R K S 410 Terry Avenue North (between Harrison and Republican) $7 Admission ($5 for ConWorks members) - visit: http://www.conworks.org/music/index.html Enfused with dynamic synergy, this evening's performances will overlap in different spaces in Consolidated Works, allowing the audience freedom to roam. Over 20 local musicians and technicians will be on hand to administer dangerous vibrations bordering on abstract and archane knowledge. The interpretive structure of these musical games generates power, perhaps spectacle. We trust the audience will provide sufficient conduit for listening. Wine and beer will be available. Fire performers Thermogenesis will be summoning demons outside dueling fire and sound with DJ Fountainhead. B R O A D C A S T A small ensemble reacts to random, reoccurring images on television. The result: a musical perversion of a great American pastime. Devised by social deviant Seth Howard. C A G E D The die determine the Dada/Surrealist Literature retched by chance and bodily functions riffed by 4 vocalists. Bataille, Desnos, Jarry, Dorthea Tanning among others sit on the board... Design mastered by one Stuart McLeod. C O N C O R D A chaos theory cocktail with a dash of Machiavellian lust. Intoxicating chemical reactions occur when planets dance and musical microcosms collide. Formula patented by revolutionary theorist Carl Farrow. G R A F F I K A Icons, dots, expressive lines transmit meaning, motion, emotion to musicians in turn. This composition extends graphic notation to a quivering point. Constructed by aural aesthete Robert Henson. I N S T A N T S C O R E ! Live evolution of the motion picture sound track. Short experimental films by Mister Free. Mentalized by the Evil James Drage. N O T E B O O K A quartet interprets four discrete folios, each containing its own set of ideas, notes, airs. Process distilled by the Godfather of Unit Circle, Kevin Goldsmith. P U L S E / I M P U L S E A piece that demands the most of its ensemble. Will mutiny erupt? Conducted by that tyrant Stuart McLeod, guiding light of SIL2K*. Plus a special performance of John Zorn's C O B R A featuring all 26 members of the ensemble. Performers are: Annie Fanning, Bill Horist (Axolotl, Ghidra, Zahir, Tablet), Carl Farrow (inBOIL, *Polar), Dave Knott, Erik Bauer, Eveline Muller-Graf, Fran Lucas (Mambo 9), James Drage (Sub_Sonic, Ota-Prota), Jason Justice (Tablet), Jeff Mueller (xaxis wye), John Moen, John Schuller (Ham & Treachery, Trepanning Drill, Ümlaüt), Jose Hernando, Kevin Goldsmith (Intonarumori), Leah Gold (Ümlaüt, China), Lisa DeFrance (Tripod, China), Paul Moore, Phil Petrocelli (soultheft, Trepanning Drill, Ümlaüt), Reuben Radding, Rick Roberts (The Posies, SushiRobo), Robert Henson, Seth Howard (The Stone Throwers), Stuart McLeod (Sub_Sonic), Tim Rhodes, Travis Hartnett (Tiktok, Electrochakra), and Wesley Davis (Entropic Advance, Trepanning Drill). *Founded shortly before the millennium, SIL2K is a Seattle-based collective dedicated to the research and development of improvisation strategies for music. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: DSP/electronic references Date: 25 Aug 2000 00:06:20 -0500 (CDT) Herb levy wrote: > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:51:22 -0500 > From: Herb Levy > Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references > progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using > Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly > be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.) there isn't a realtime version of Csound yet, although i hear there is one in the works. as for the progressiveness - i've played with a lot of programs for the intel PC, and while some of them allow one to make 'progressive' noises, they don't do it in real time. the real time software iv'e played with is very loop based (i.e., dance or club or acid or whatever). it basically sounds like the people making the programs aren't into the kind of music we (or some of us) are into, and so don't think of the possibilities. it also is a pain to program windows, which is why i work in linux... (sombody else on the list mentioned some other programs, which i haven't explored, so mayber there is something out there for PC users...) whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 25 Aug 2000 02:34:09 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Cc: "Zorn-List" Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 7:52 PM > Because of their tight budget, Tzadik doesn't do press releases, promos, or > ads. I guess the quality of recordings is good enough that they're sought > out. Where did you hear that? That's actually not true. The radio station where I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases (and I thank them for it). And I'm almost positive I've seen a Tzadik ad (though it could have been for Avant). The one that has the logo and a long list of all the musicians. I wouldn't know about press releases, but the blurbs on the webpage certainly read like them. And you'd figure if someone bothers to write them, they'd send them out. . . I don't understand people's continued insistence that Zorn/Tzadik is so DIY and poor. Zorn does very well, I'm sure, and I wouldn't call an indie label that can afford to give $5000 recording advances and fancy artwork on a "tight budget." Tzadik's success is due in a large part to savvy marketing, plain and simple. It's no accident that the records have a uniform art theme, come in easily-grouped series, and are strongly identified with Zorn (if I'm not mistaken, he's listed as "executive producer" for all releases). There's plenty of labels that release great music but don't have their records "sought out." Unfortunately, marketing has quite a bit to do with it, and Tzadik has done that well. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions Date: 25 Aug 2000 08:26:57 +0200 > I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic > FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California E.A.R. > Unit (who are these guys?), Isn't EAR Unit the band that Zappa talked about in Real Frank Zappa Book as having pretended to play one of his pieces at a festival which was actually played from a synclavier? A very funny story. What are they up to? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 24 Aug 2000 23:54:53 -0700 Jesse Kudler wrote: > > I believe CSound is a synthesis program, but I'm not sure. Yes it is. It's been around for quite a while (lots of folks were using it when I was in grad school in 93-95 & it wasn't new then). AFAIK it isn't manipulable in real-time (back then, it wouldn't even create the sounds in real time, you had to write sound files to disk & then play them back. This may have changed while I wasn't looking. Like Supercollider, it requires real programming ability (in, duh, C ... as opposed to Supercollider's own language). > I've heard > MAX/MSP mentioned a lot by the new laptop people (Mego, etc.), but I have no > experience with it. I'm not sure if it's used for synthesis, but I'm pretty > sure it has some tweakable sequencing functions. A composer who came to my > school used it to control some motors, and he had a GUI that he could use to > bring up the speed of each motor, or multiple ones in tandem. Opcode MAX (as opposed to the IRCAM version) originally was strictly for doing things with MIDI, with the kicker being that you could use *any* source for the numbers, so long as they were ints between 0-127 or 0-65k ... and there were objects that would control serial objects, so you could, yes, do things like control stepper motors, or take inputs from pressure pads, electric eyes, etc. One of my advisors, Peter Gena, was spending the year converting DNA sequences of deadly diseases to use for various control functions; other folks have done stuff with live EEG traces. It was also extensible by writing C++ modules which would do basically anything you wanted, as long as they had inputs/outputs that could work in the MAX interface. Supercollider started out as a MAX extension called Pyrite. 'Long about 2 years ago, a new version of MAX added a secondary package called MSP which basically brought direct control of the sound card's DSP chip inside MAX -- much of what Supercollider does is now available from w/in MAX-- while keeping the programming interface (which is MAX's strong suit) consistent. This has the advantage that you can be controlling DSP synthesis and MIDI devices (not only synth modules, but lights, motors, laser discs, cd players, whatever) within the same program. I've seen Yasuhiro Otani and Carl Stone doing really complicated-sounding things with MAX patches that looked really simple (*on the surface*, anyway) -- one of the nice things is that you can build a very intuitive, natural screen interface -- on/off buttons, switches, sliders -- to control the mass of spaghetti underneath. It's also really easy to exchange the files, since they output as extremely tiny text files. http://www.cycling74.com/ Herb Levy wrote: > None of the people who write MAX, LiSa, etc. want to make Windows > versions, apparently because of extreme differences in the OS > architecture. Actually, since he bought the program back from Opcode, David Zicarelli (who did the original port to Mac from the IRCAM workstation) has been working on a Windows version, which should be out Real Soon Now(tm). But I'm not holding my breath on the schedule ;-). -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma Date: 25 Aug 2000 07:33:36 -0400 At 03:24 AM 8/24/00 CDT, Kristopher S. Handley wrote: >A few requests for some info/opinons: > >3. Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or >Charhizma catalogs? No one has recommended the Orchestra 33 1/3 album yet, so I'll jump in. It's quite varied, with some of the electronics that we expect from the label, plus some occasional straight ahead big band work. I like the variety, even tolerating the occasional vocals because there is so much ground covered. I also listen to the Dafeldecker/Fennesz/Kurzmann meet O'Rourke/Drumm/Siewart album a lot. This album is much more in the microsound land and very well done. The only Durian album I've got so far is Efzeg, and as it's a recent addition I've only listened to it once. I liked it a lot, but can't provide other comments yet. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Ianaro" Subject: Re: DSP/electronic references Date: 25 Aug 2000 13:36:00 GMT I dont' know if my original post got through yet, but Csound does run in realtime, and it runs best in realtime on a PC. It runs very well, but is COMPLETELY dependant on the speed of your processor. I am running realtime csound on a PII 400 and it is pretty good, on a PIII 1Ghz wow...it is great. Again, it isn't the regular version os Csound that runs like this, but a special DirectX version by Gabrial Maldanado. It is essentially the same, but optimized for realtime throughput and extra opcodes for better realtime control. It is really worth checking out. I'll be putting up some music on the web for all to hear soon. Glenn ------------- > >Herb levy wrote: > > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:51:22 -0500 > > From: Herb Levy > > Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references > > > progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using > > Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly > > be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.) > >there isn't a realtime version of Csound yet, although i hear there is one >in the works. as for the progressiveness - i've played with a lot of >programs for the intel PC, and while some of them allow one to make >'progressive' noises, they don't do it in real time. the real time >software iv'e played with is very loop based (i.e., dance or club or acid >or whatever). it basically sounds like the people making the programs >aren't into the kind of music we (or some of us) are into, and so don't >think of the possibilities. it also is a pain to program windows, >which is why i work in linux... (sombody else on the list mentioned some >other programs, which i haven't explored, so mayber there is something out >there for PC users...) > >whit > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WLT4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 25 Aug 2000 09:40:16 -0400 >The radio station where I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases I've heard Tzadik sends promos to about a dozen stations. I know WREK (Atlanta) receives them and would be almost certain that WFMU does as well. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 25 Aug 2000 10:20:16 -0500 Jesse Kudler wrote: > > Because of their tight budget, Tzadik doesn't do press releases, promos, > or > > ads. I guess the quality of recordings is good enough that they're sought > > out. > > Where did you hear that? That's actually not true. The radio station where > I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases (and I thank them for it). As Lang Thompson pointed out, there is a list of some 12-15 radio stations that get comprehesive service from Tzadik. > And I'm > almost positive I've seen a Tzadik ad (though it could have been for Avant). > The one that has the logo and a long list of all the musicians. I remember this as well, although it only ever happened once. > I wouldn't > know about press releases, but the blurbs on the webpage certainly read like > them. And you'd figure if someone bothers to write them, they'd send them > out. . . No. They are written for Koch International's new release books, the tools with which the sales reps for the distributor convince the stores to stock the CDs. There are no press releases because there are no press mailings, unless the individual artist undertakes one him- or herself. > I don't understand people's continued insistence that Zorn/Tzadik is so DIY > and poor. Zorn does very well, I'm sure, and I wouldn't call an indie label > that can afford to give $5000 recording advances and fancy artwork on a > "tight budget." $5,000 isn't that much money for a recording. And while Zorn's presumably comfortable, please remember that Tzadik is run as a non-profit organization - Zorn makes a little, Kazunori makes a little, the art director makes a little, but most of the money goes straight back into funding new recordings. > Tzadik's success is due in a large part to savvy marketing, > plain and simple. It's no accident that the records have a uniform art > theme, come in easily-grouped series, and are strongly identified with Zorn > (if I'm not mistaken, he's listed as "executive producer" for all releases). I tend to view the groupings into series as less a savvy marketing ploy and more a reflection of Zorn's compartmentalization of the various genres that interest him. I haven't ever seen his legendary collection, but I know I separate my collection by genre. > There's plenty of labels that release great music but don't have their > records "sought out." Unfortunately, marketing has quite a bit to do with > it, and Tzadik has done that well. I think it's less marketing, more cult of personality and a general willingness on our part to trust what Zorn's promoting and vote with our dollars. "Marketing" suggests the expenditure of time and often money to concoct ways of selling things to people. My sense of Tzadik is more of a guy with some money and a lot of ideas sitting around thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool to have THAT on my shelf?" and then substituting the word "label" for "shelf"... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 25 Aug 2000 08:26:41 -0700 On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:14:00 -0400 "Jesse Kudler" wrote: > > I can't really think of too many improvisers specifically using sine waves > that were mentioned. Sachiko M uses a sine wave sampler, as mentioned. And > various lap-toppers throw them in too. There's also a bunch of rock bands > with sine-wave oscillators in their setups. Simeon's setup in the Silver > Apples was basically a lot of sine-wave oscillators working together, and I > know Pelt uses one. There's plenty of academic/"serious" people using them > too. Lamonte Young's uses them in all the pieces where he sings with sine > waves, causing beating effects (rhythmic cancellation of the sound by out-of > phase sine waves). And Alvin Lucier uses them in various pieces that > involve beating as well, although I can't think of which ones would be well > known and/or on record. And let's not forget the grandfathers of electroacoustic music: the Koln school (Herbert Heimer, Stockhausen). If I remember well, Stockhausen's STUDY I is for sinusoids. Although, of course, the motivations in the early 50s were quite different (sinusoids were not a choice since it was almost the only kind of periodic signal available at that time :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 25 Aug 2000 08:31:07 -0700 On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:52:22 -0400 "Alan Lankin" wrote: > > Because of their tight budget, Tzadik doesn't do press releases, promos, or > ads. I guess the quality of recordings is good enough that they're sought > out. I think that there is another reason: they do not believe in the value of promos (you know, the hundreds of records that you mail and which are barely responsible for a handful of sale...). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 25 Aug 2000 12:58:55 -0400 On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 08:26:41AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > And let's not forget the grandfathers of electroacoustic music: the Koln school > (Herbert Heimer, Stockhausen). If I remember well, Stockhausen's STUDY I is for > sinusoids. Although, of course, the motivations in the early 50s were quite > different (sinusoids were not a choice since it was almost the only kind of > periodic signal available at that time :-). Until I remembered what the word meant, my first thought was that sinusoids could make sneezing quite painful :-) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:29:04 -0400 Hmmm. . I guess we should feel honored then. The station is WESU in Middletown, CT by the way. -Jesse ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:40 AM > >The radio station where I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases > > I've heard Tzadik sends promos to about a dozen stations. I know WREK (Atlanta) receives them and would be almost certain that WFMU does as well. > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:44:56 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > $5,000 isn't that much money for a recording. And while Zorn's presumably > comfortable, please remember that Tzadik is run as a non-profit organization - > Zorn makes a little, Kazunori makes a little, the art director makes a little, > but most of the money goes straight back into funding new recordings. Yeah, $5000 isn't that much for a good recording studio, but I'd guess that most labels I like can't afford to give *any* recording advances. $5000 is certainly enough to demonstrate that Tzadik isn't operating hand-to-mouth. Tzadik is non-profit? I didn't know that. I knew about Hips Road (Zorn's non-profit org.), but I wasn't aware that Tzadik was part of that. > I tend to view the groupings into series as less a savvy marketing ploy and > more a reflection of Zorn's compartmentalization of the various genres that > interest him. I haven't ever seen his legendary collection, but I know I > separate my collection by genre. Well, I don't, but that's irrelevant I guess. I tend to view the series as marketing because some records *really* seem squeezed into having identities that they don't in order to fit say, the Radical Jewish Culture series. I'm not of the opinion that any Jewish person making music is partaking in "Radical Jewish Culture." And didn't someone once post an anecdote to this list about talking to a Tzadik artist who said that they really didn't see whey their record was part of that series? Besides marketing? > I think it's less marketing, more cult of personality and a general willingness > on our part to trust what Zorn's promoting and vote with our dollars. Well, yeah, but I think establishing that cult of personality and tying it to the label so much *is* marketing. Cf. the executive producer credits. > "Marketing" suggests the expenditure of time and often money to concoct ways of > selling things to people. My sense of Tzadik is more of a guy with some money > and a lot of ideas sitting around thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool to have THAT > on my shelf?" and then substituting the word "label" for "shelf"... Perhaps. I was just annoyed by this idea that Tzadik is in any way struggling or that it's strictly a money-losing labor of love. If you like the records, of course you should buy them, but I don't think buying a record on Tzadik is really supporting a tiny little indie who puts out music without eyes on financial gain. Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but that's the way it is. And if you really want to vote with your dollars, there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much more radical music than Tzadik is. And I do think Zorn's expenditure of time on that Tower avant-garde section amounts to marketing when it means that all Tzadik titles are in their own sperate section. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:50:35 EDT In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much more radical music than Tzadik is. >> Such as? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:13:38 -0500 On Fri, Aug 25, 2000, wrote: >In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: ><< there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much > more radical music than Tzadik is. >> > >Such as? Metatron Press BoxMedia Pogus Einstein Periplum Deep Listening Just to name a few off the top of my head. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | http://www.mp3.com/craque | | | | http://www.metatronpress.com | | http://www.mp3.com/graycode | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:13:56 EDT In a message dated 8/25/00 3:53:18 PM, OnionPalac@aol.com writes: << << there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much more radical music than Tzadik is. >> Such as? >> this question wasn't directed to me, but here's my quickly compiled list: Paradigm Alga Marghen Durian Trente Oiseaux For 4 Ears Grob Mego Matchless Corpus Hermeticum Amoebic Utterpsalm Touch Sound@One Metonymic Charhizma Perdition Plastics Alcohol Bruce's Fingers Acta Sonoris Selektion Digital Narcis Pogus Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:31:45 -0500 Jesse Kudler wrote: > I tend to view the series as > marketing because some records *really* seem squeezed into having identities > that they don't in order to fit say, the Radical Jewish Culture series. I'm > not of the opinion that any Jewish person making music is partaking in > "Radical Jewish Culture." And didn't someone once post an anecdote to this > list about talking to a Tzadik artist who said that they really didn't see > whey their record was part of that series? Besides marketing? Your point is well-taken, but I disagree in principle and I think Zorn would be highly offended. Many of the artists may not necessarily see their day-to-day work as being part of a "Radical Jewish Culture" continuum, but Zorn's explicit point in the series is to prod his fellow Jewish artists to deliberately assess their Jewish background. Marty Ehrlich and Erik Friedlander have both told me that they weren't clear at first on the mandate or whether they belonged in such a series, but each of them found something unique to address based on Zorn's request. Steven Bernstein had to be provoked into making a contribution, but 'Diaspora Soul' was the result, a true winnner in the series. Neither Lee Konitz nor Steve Lacy, two well-established jazz icons, had ever given much thought to their heritage but were quick to respond to Zorn's mandate. And Jamie Saft's 'Solvanut' is an even-more radically divergent recording that clearly addresses aspects of Judaism from an intensely personal (and even specifically geographically Brooklyn-centric) perspective. Nor does Zorn seem to be expressing the opinion that any Jewish person making music is part of the "Radical Jewish Culture" series, either. Right now I'm listening to the new Ned Rothenburg CD, which is part of the Composers Series and features lots of shakuhachi, pipa and cello. Mark Dresser and Guy Klucevsek have been part of the Composers Series as well. The Radical Jewish Culture series is more explicitly about provoking artistic response in a specific way, and I don't see it as a simple marketing ploy the way the Knitting Factory's crass cash-in series "Jewish Alternative Movement" clearly is. > Well, yeah, but I think establishing that cult of personality and tying it > to the label so much *is* marketing. Cf. the executive producer credits. Establishing the cult of personality is not something Zorn set out to do, it just happened because he is who he is and acts the way he does. But using it as a tool could indeed be labelled "marketing" - that's a point I'm willing to concede. When I was working at Koch a the time that Tzadik was first launched, we regularly commented upon the fact that the records on Tzadik were guaranteed to sell more than similar records we had on similar labels, just because Zorn's name is attached. So yes, I'll agree that that could be construed as a marketing ploy, but at least it's an altruistic one. Personally I buy virtually everything on Tzadik as an act of blind faith in Zorn's ability to steer me towards provocative music. Sure I've been burned, but the good has largely outweighed the bad or iffy. I don't do it because I'm on a mission to support the label. > I was just annoyed by this idea that Tzadik is in any way > struggling or that it's strictly a money-losing labor of love. If you like > the records, of course you should buy them, but I don't think buying a > record on Tzadik is really supporting a tiny little indie who puts out music > without eyes on financial gain. You're correct again, but given the non-profit structure, you can at least be fairly certain that your dollars are being funnelled directly into the promulgation of more such music, and that the label is not going to disappear or do a radical about-face to find more commerically-viable music to shore up the bottom line or put more cash in Zorn's pocket or up his nose. > And if you really want to vote with your dollars, > there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much > more radical music than Tzadik is. Yes. At least three of them are frequent flyers on this here list (Jon, Patrice and Herb), and perhaps there are others I'm missing even among present company. (Steve Feigenbaum has surely transcended that status by now, but even he is just above the break-even point as he's just told us, so it's just as much a labor of love for him.) > And I do think Zorn's expenditure of time on that Tower avant-garde section > amounts to marketing when it means that all Tzadik titles are in their own > sperate section. On this subject there's really no debate. It's clearly the most straightforward and clearcut example of marketing in which the label has ever engaged. And whatever the supposed altruism of Zorn's effort, it does in fact give the records on his labels increased exposure rather than ignominious invisibility. I don't really disagree with anything you said, in other words, except for the bit about "Radical Jewish Culture," an argument aired on this list before and most likely a continuing debate. But I do think that Zorn's efforts have mainly been fairly elegant and appropriate to the level of the music. And perhaps, just perhaps, the success of Tzadik opens doors for some of the other genuinely struggling bedroom operations of which you speak. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ned Rothenberg, "Duet for Alto Saxophone and Percussion," 'Ghost Stories' (Tzadik) P.S. Add me to the list of folks who are loving the new 'Big Gundown' reissue and those terrific bonus tracks. The track with Bailey is killin'. P.P.S. Kurt Gottschalk, drop me a private line, please. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:34:42 EDT Honestly, the California Ear Unit versions of Feldman pieces are actually MORE accurate according to the score than the Hat Art ones by the people for whom the pieces were actually written. Sounds weird, but it's TRUE. Figure that one out. -matt mitchell, who prefers the Bridge version (and the New Albion version of Why Patterns? that the Ear Unit does) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ethan Subject: Re: tzadik promos Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:44:08 -0400 (EDT) WXYC gets promos from Tzadik, although as I recall we had to bug them about it for a while, and then suddenly we got a box of 15+ CDs from them... we had been getting them in the past mainly by buying them or DJs' donations. ethan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: Orchester 33 1/3 Date: 25 Aug 2000 14:47:09 -0600 >No one has recommended the Orchestra 33 1/3 album yet, so I'll jump in. >It's quite varied, with some of the electronics that we expect from the >label, plus some occasional straight ahead big band work. I like the >variety, even tolerating the occasional vocals because there is so much >ground covered. FWIW - The Orchester release on Charhizma didn't do much for me although they do cover quite a bit of ground. But I like their self titled release on plag dich nicht. I find with the charhizma release that I like what they're doing one second and then don't like what they do the next. With the self titled release I find myself liking one *track* and then not liking the next (I almost never listen to the Brotzmann led track). The highs points are higher and more frequent on the Plag Dich Nicht. One of the early tracks has a scattered break beat with a great guitar solo...plenty of noises...i don't even know who plays it. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Schuller" Subject: Masada Discs for sale Date: 25 Aug 2000 13:58:30 PDT I have all ten of the DIW Japanese Masada discs for sale on eBay right now. All are in great shape. Reserve on each is $7.00. my account name is schules http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=schules&sort=2&page=2&rows=25&since=-1 Thanks, John ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:53:40 -0500 At 15:50 25-08-00 EDT, OnionPalac@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: ><< there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much > more radical music than Tzadik is. >> > >Such as? AUM Fidelity (William Parker; Matthew Shipp; David S. Ware; Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra; Joe Morris); Eremite (Test; Sabir Matin; Alan Silva) Wobbly Rail (Ken Vandermark; Steve Lacy; AALY Trio) and the list could be continued to long lengths. Quite a few of them are included in my label checklist project on Saturn Web: which, by the by, is FAR from a comprehensice list. Anyone with data on the labels in the checklist, or labels that need to be added, please let me know. Saturnally, Joe Moudry Web Master, Saturn Web producer/host for Creative Improv & Classic Jazz, Alabama Public Radio - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:19:17 -0500 "Jesse Kudler" wrote: I tend to view the series as marketing because some records *really* seem squeezed into having identities that they don't in order to fit say, the Radical Jewish Culture series. I'm not of the opinion that any Jewish person making music is partaking in "Radical Jewish Culture." Uh, as far as I can tell from the releases on Tzadik, neither does Zorn. Here's a partial list of nominally Jewish artists who have released CDs in a Tzadik series other than Radical Jewish Culture: Alvin Curran, Mark Dresser, Mark Feldman, Daniel Goode, Ned Rothenberg, Elliott Sharp, and, of course, Zorn himself. For that matter, not all releases by Japanese composer/performers are in the new Japan series (consider the discs of music in the Composer series by Mamoru Fujieda, Ikue Mori, Yuji Takahashi, and Otomo Yoshihide). It seems pretty clear to me that Zorn has an idea of what belongs in each series and isn't simply organizing these releases solely based on the artists' ethnic background. The underlying concepts may not always be clearly presented, but that's a separate issue. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 25 Aug 2000 17:32:22 +0000 on 8/25/00 4:58 PM, Joseph Zitt at jzitt@metatronpress.com wrote: > On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 08:26:41AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > >> Stockhausen's STUDY I is for sinusoids. > > Until I remembered what the word meant, my first thought was that > sinusoids could make sneezing quite painful :-) If you ever post a message like this to the group again, I'll be forced to have you removed... ;-) RL -- Marilyn CRISPELL, Susie IBARRA, William PARKER, Sam RIVERS, Matthew SHIPP, David S. WARE, and Reggie WORKMAN Discographies-- Samuel Beckett Eulogy --Baseball & the 10,000 Things --Time Stops --LOVETORN --HARD BOIL --etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: vids, a few CDs, baseball books, a few Cadence back issues, a few more CDs... ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels Date: 25 Aug 2000 18:10:43 -0400 > In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: > << there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much > more radical music than Tzadik is. >> > > Such as? Erstwhile, Perdition Plastics, Boxmedia, 4 Four Ears, Various Austrian labels (Durian, Charhizma, Plag Dich Nicht), Okka Disk . . . Oh, I just read the rest of my mail, and Jon and others covered most of the labels I would've named. Some of those may not actually be "one-man bedroom labels" (I have no idea how most of the European ones work; Mego seems to have several staff people, for instance), but you get the point. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 25 Aug 2000 21:13:23 -0400 At 10:20 AM 8/25/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > >I separate my collection by genre. I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this. I've got jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical' tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do). What are your genres? How fine grained do you get? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dann-Brown" Subject: Date: 25 Aug 2000 21:22:19 -0400 > For that matter, not all releases by Japanese composer/performers are > in the new Japan series and, my fave, the Wadachi disc of a Japanese trio playing klezmer - where does that one go? =-) (it's under New Japan) ------- Dann-Brown - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul? Date: 26 Aug 2000 02:36:34 GMT >From: "Kristopher S. Handley" >KOREAN MUSIC - more than once, someone has mentioned a Korean music, > though the music sounds like it might not be "traditional" in the > common sense. Is the name Kim Suk Chul? Could someone correct me > on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or > outlets? Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would > be most welcomed. >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >are there a lot of Chul CDs available? I scoured NYC and the WWW a while >back, and didn't come up with much. I'd love to hear more... -------------------- Sorry to take so long on this, but a recent monsoon has left me pretty inert about checking around. There are currently two CDs by Kim Seok-chool (a more accurate rendering of the pronunciation) that are easy to obtain over here. They are released by Samsung's subsidiary E&E Media. The first, "East Wind," was recorded in Japan and it features Kim playing traditional Korean drums and gongs and singing shamanistic folk songs on the first four tracks. On the fifth and last he plays the hojok or nallali to marvelous effect. My only wish regarding this recording would be that the hojok be featured more. The other tracks are fine and rather typical in traditional Korean music. The liner notes by Manabu Yuasa pronounce that "in front of" Kim, "even virtuosos who have developed jazz by Albert Ayler, John Coltrane, or Sun Ra, have no choice but to leave their instruments and be soaked for a while in the speechless pleasure of his music." For those more interested in a productive synthesis of Kim with free improv musicians, "Final Say" is a better choice. This CD features Kim with Wolfgang Pushnig on tarogato and alto. Pushnig, a Carla Bley alumn, has been in Korea a lot lately playing in the ensemble Red Sun (Jamaaladeen Tacuma, Rick Iannacone, and Linda Sharrock) with Samulnori. He is accompanied by free improv tenor sax phenom Lee Jung-shik, as well as Japanese alto saxman Kazutoki Umezu. These four play without rhythm support on the first and final tracks and the result is really fabulous, with the hojok soaring above the fray, becoming almost otherworldly in the harmonically limited terrain of the saxes (think Eric Dolphy in some of his more outrageous moments). At times the hojok sounds like its going out of control and will destroy the composition. The other three tracks include Kim Jung-hee and Kim Jung-kuk on kwaenggwari, a traditional drum, Kim Tong-yol on ching, a gong-like instrument, and Jang Duck-hwa on changgo, another type of drum. Both of these CDs are available for around 10-11 dollars. In addition to the JVC CD mentioned previously, Kim has also played with another improvisational sax powerhouse, Kang Tae-hwan. I haven't been able to track this one down yet, but occasionally one finds Kang's CDs floating around. He's an exceptional player. I've owned what I think is the best of the Red Sun/Samulnori collaborations for awhile--"Then Comes the White Tiger" on ECM, which I can probably still find here. Some of their other collaborations have been less than successful, if I can be aesthetic for a moment, though I do like the Samsung released "From the Earth to the Sky, which is readily available here for 12,000 won. Pascal mentioned Kim So-hee and pansori previously. She is perhaps the single most important living pansori artist in the country, though there are a number of others. One should also note the musical tradition that accompanies dance, or salpuri, as well as the orchestrated suites or sanjo played on a number of traditional instruments, like the kayagum, Korea's beautiful zither, sometimes used on recordings in western music, on Laurie Anderson's CDs for example. The haegum, on the other hand, is somewhat like a violin. These days, a dollar is worth roughly 11,000 won. Here are the prices on a number of worthwhile recordings: Kim So-hee box (5 CDs) 45,000 Ahn Sook-sun and Park Byung-chon (pansori) 12,000 Ahn Sook-sun 6 CD box 51,000 Ahn sook-sun 3 CD box 35,000 Cho Soon-ja Complete Female Lyrics (6 CDs) 57,000 Kim Dong-joon (pansori) 19,000 There's also a fine kayagum box set of 2 cds for 19,000 as well as individual CDs by the aforementioned artists for 10,000 won. A good start on Korean traditional music is the series on SKC called "Folk Music Highlights." I think there's about 10 in the series and they're all around 10,000 won. YBM also has a nice series called the "Pal-do-Min-yo" and a friend one recorded a collection of modern traditional music that uses some synthesizer that I like a lot. If any of this interests you, contact me privately and we'll work out the details. Cheers, Bill ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul? Date: 25 Aug 2000 21:48:12 -0400 On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 02:36:34AM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote: > These days, a dollar is worth roughly 11,000 won. Here are the > prices on a number of worthwhile recordings: > > Kim So-hee box (5 CDs) 45,000 > Ahn Sook-sun and Park Byung-chon (pansori) 12,000 > Ahn Sook-sun 6 CD box 51,000 > Ahn sook-sun 3 CD box 35,000 > Cho Soon-ja Complete Female Lyrics (6 CDs) 57,000 > Kim Dong-joon (pansori) 19,000 > > There's also a fine kayagum box set of 2 cds for 19,000 as well as > individual CDs by the aforementioned artists for 10,000 won. A good start > on Korean traditional music is the series on SKC called "Folk Music > Highlights." I think there's about 10 in the series and they're all around > 10,000 won. YBM also has a nice series called the "Pal-do-Min-yo" and a > friend one recorded a collection of modern traditional music that uses some > synthesizer that I like a lot. So do I understand you that these can be gotten for a little more than $1 per disc, or am I not grokking something about the price conversion? Hell, at that kinda price I'm pick up most of them just out of curiosity. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell Date: 26 Aug 2000 02:50:23 GMT Steve mentioned Patrice and Herb having their own bedroom-run labels. I'd like to know more about these, and I'm sorry if it's been mentioned somewhere in the archive that I don't know about. It's always good to hear about new releases from list denizens, and I think it's important to keep up with what people are doing on the list musically, particularly in terms of labels and distribution. On this note, I saw on the Erstwhile site that a CD will be coming out involving Stillupsteypa, featured on Mille Plateaux's superb Cliks and Cuts, and with the latest Dean Roberts, I was wondering if more such projects involving Mille Plateaux artists would be coming on Erstwhile. I'm particular interested in Vladislav Delay these days. I wonder if Jon has thought about working with him. On the Mille Plateux subject, I was wondering if anyone knew how to find a list of current and projected recordings on the sublabel Ritornell. I've found Mille's website difficult to use, and it's hard to find out about ensuing releases. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 25 Aug 2000 22:59:37 EDT In a message dated 8/25/00 9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: << I separate my collection by genre. I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this. I've got jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical' tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do). What are your genres? How fine grained do you get? >> alphabetical order -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul? Date: 26 Aug 2000 03:02:57 GMT Sorry typo. That should have been 1$=1,100 won. >From: Joseph Zitt > >So do I understand you that these can be gotten for a little more than $1 >per disc, or am I not grokking something about the price conversion? Hell, >at that kinda price I'm pick up most of them just out of curiosity. > >-- >|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| >| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | >| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | >| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | > > >- > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 25 Aug 2000 23:13:52 -0400 I tend to agree that alphabetical is the way to go for most cds/lps...I'd be too tempted to make ridiculous in-jokes that only I'd get (like putting Yoko Ono in the Bluegrass section) and then forgetting that I'd done it. But I do have the "various artists" arranged by type...Soul, bluegrass, "avant," "weird (I mean good) classical" "other pop" (like WFMU compilations), country, jazz (early swing to sixties blue note comps), out jazz (Ayler-Zorn) Strangely, the comps that were hardest to file were the "Whirlygigs..." comp on Ellipsis Arts and "The East Village Other" Matt Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/25/00 9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > alphabetical order > > -matt mitchell > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 25 Aug 2000 23:22:46 EDT In a message dated Fri, 25 Aug 2000 9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Caleb T. Deupree" writes: << At 10:20 AM 8/25/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > >I separate my collection by genre. I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this. >> No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Ong Subject: Re: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell Date: 25 Aug 2000 22:42:32 -0400 Hey, > On the Mille Plateux subject, I was wondering if anyone knew how to find a > list of current and projected recordings on the sublabel Ritornell. I've > found Mille's website difficult to use, and it's hard to find out about > ensuing releases. These are the recent and upcoming releases for the MP camp... Mille Plateaux MP 90 GEEEZ `N`GOSH(aka Atom) My life with jesus MP 91 PLURAMON Bit Sand Riders rmxes by Hecker,Merzbow,snd,Randomix,Mogwai,Reenaldo,etc MP 92 SND stdiosnd types MP 93 KID 606 p.s. I love you MP 94 TERRE THAEMLITZ MP 95 VLADISLAV DELAY Ritornell RIT 13 CHRISTOPHE CHARLES Undirected/dok RIT 14 AMBARCHI/FENNESZ/PIMMON/REHBERG/ROWE Afternoon Tea RIT 15 RANDOM INDUSTRIES Selected random works RIT 16 STEPHAN MATHIEU Wurmloch Variationen RIT 17 ACHIM WOLLSCHEID Shifts -eric. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 04:01:19 GMT >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" >What >are your genres? How fine grained do you get? Not very. My vinyl is organized into jazz (including avant), classical, experimental (broadly construed), and pop (including rock and reggae). For CDs I have divisions for electronica, avant (including Cage, Xenakis, etc.), jazz, rock, blues, and international. I also have separate sections for Zorn, Laswell, Brotzmann, Coltrane, Miles, Sun Ra, Derek Bailey and Yoshihide. At the moment I have close to 650 CDs and another 200 on vinyl. I also have about 200 tapes. I imagine my collection is fairly sparse compared to the people on this list. My former grad advisor is a metal head who keeps his CDs in Case Logic cases on his book shelf. He finds his music by checking a map he's drawn of the genres--grindcore, grungecore, death metal, etc. Some of the categories are self-inventions. There's also case for a miscellany of other items including Xenakis, Brotzmann, and Bach. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:14:47 -0500 Bill Ashline wrote: > My former grad advisor is a metal head who keeps his CDs in Case Logic cases > on his book shelf. He finds his music by checking a map he's drawn of the > genres--grindcore, grungecore, death metal, etc. Some of the categories are > self-inventions. There's also case for a miscellany of other items > including Xenakis, Brotzmann, and Bach. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "1," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beond Time' (AUM Fidelity) (and DAMN did OTiM sound good tonight at Marcus Garvey Park, along with Little Huey and Joe McPhee's Trio X...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:17:51 -0500 Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. LOL. Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "1," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:28:33 EDT In a message dated Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:20:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Steve Smith writes: << Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. LOL. Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion... >> Darn- I thought I was being original and stuff... Oh well- I'll stop before the "off topic" police jump in here. =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 04:34:15 GMT >From: Steve Smith > >Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... Great. I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the year. >From: Steve Smith > >Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > > > No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via >spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. > >LOL. Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion... True. But I thought it worth indulging Caleb this time around. And I'm always curious about how large our private libaries are. It's the "Auto da Fe" in me. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 25 Aug 2000 23:41:43 -0400 On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 12:28:33AM -0400, Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > Oh well- I'll stop before the "off topic" police jump in here. They only dive if you start rhapsodizing here about the Avant-Garde mailing list. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Calling out Patrice and Herb Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:36:17 -0500 Bill Ashline wrote: > Steve mentioned Patrice and Herb having their own bedroom-run labels. I'd > like to know more about these, and I'm sorry if it's been mentioned > somewhere in the archive that I don't know about. It's actually not as well-known as you might think. Patrice seems willing to talk rather definitively about virtually anything except himself, so I'll call him out for having released swell records by David Garland and Irene Aebi on his label, Ergodic. (Previously he was the "jazz advisor" for Cavity Search and got them to release records by Steve Lacy and Wayne Horvitz.) And Herb Levy runs the damn fine Periplum. Enough said. (You DO still run Periplum even though you moved to Cowtown, right, Herb?) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (tickled to death to realize how close my subject line comes to reading "Calling out Peaches and Herb"... shake your groove thing, indeed...) NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "4," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: long answer to labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:45:07 EDT <> actually, one of the projects I'm working on now is the duo of Marcus=20 Schmickler, who records as Pluramon for MP, and Thomas Lehn (012, out in=20 October, I hope). Schmickler played a very nice solo set at Tonic about a=20 month ago, and will be touring here again next month as Pluramon. Marcus'=20 description: "pluramon is, in fact, a headbangin=B4, pretty archetypical,=20 minimal electronic virtual rock project and i=B4m playing it with a drummer.= "=20 dates: THU 9/28 LOS ANGELES, CA Knitting Factory FRI 9/29 SAN FRANCISCO, CA Bottom of the Hill SAT 9/30 SEATTLE, WA Crocodile Caf=E9 TUE 10/3 NEW YORK, NY Knitting Factory WED 10/4 TORONTO, ON Rivoli TENTATIVE THU 10/5 DETROIT, MI Motor Lounge FRI 10/6 CLEVELAND, OH Speak in Tongues SAT 10/7 CHICAGO, IL Empty Bottle << I'm particular interested in Vladislav Delay these days. I wonder if Jon= =20 has=20 thought about working with him.>> I borrowed both Delay CDs from a friend a month or two ago, and only really=20 liked the first track on Entain (previously released on his Sigma CD). I ten= d=20 to prefer abstract electronics to the more beat-driven stuff. that being=20 said, I'd be interested in hearing someone processing him live. I'm not a bi= g=20 fan of most of Carsten Nicolai's (Noto) work either, but he played a duo sho= w=20 with I-Sound at Tonic a couple of years ago that was remarkable, with I-Soun= d=20 adding enough life to the proceedings to make the sparse tones feel soulful.= =20 not processing, but the same general idea. Erstwhile projects, at least so far, are all basically improv records, with=20 minimal postproduction of any kind. musicians like Delay and Thomas Brinkman= n=20 are studio guys, not improvisers (although I've never seen either of them=20 live, so feel free to correct me), so it's hard to set up a collaboration=20 involving them, outside of the processing idea above. in related Erstwhile news, I-Sound (a NYC-based turntablist) just put=20 together a 5 minute "reconstruction" piece called Folded. he stored sounds=20 from the first 12 Erstwhile CDs on his hard drive, then built an original=20 piece from them. it'll be included in the Wire Tapper double CD in the=20 October issue, which subscribers and UK buyers get with the issue, but=20 overseas newsstand buyers don't. press release excerpt: <> a longer version of Folded (around 8:30) will be up on my web site in the=20 next week sometime. <> also, if you haven't heard Dean's Ritornell release yet, you should. pop=20 songs (including Dean's vocals) dropped into a steaming hot vat of=20 electronica, and the remnants left dissolved on the surface, including an=20 awesome version of Eno's Cindy Tells Me. Tim Barnes (the guy putting togethe= r=20 the Angus MacLise series on Quakebasket/Siltbreeze) did a great job producin= g=20 this record (as well as Aluminium). Dean and Tim are recording the follow-up= ,=20 also for Ritornell, next month, and it'll hopefully be out around the end of= =20 the year. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com NP: Art Ensemble-Theme De Yoyo from Les Stances A Sophie (Universal=20 Sound/Soul Jazz), my favorite AEC track ever. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Gunning" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 25 Aug 2000 23:54:30 -0500 >What >are your genres? How fine grained do you get? The alphabet works just fine for me,about all I can handle. If I didn't have things alphabetized, I'd never be able to find anything (still have some problems sometimes). I do have a couple smaller racks that I keep my more mainstream things in (things that other people may actually want to hear). When I put my CD list on my website I was going to try to classify things according to genre, it's still up there that way although just about everything is either "Jazz" or "Ambient/Experimental". Just got to be to difficult for me to put too fine a point on things, life's too short. What classification does Captain Beefheart belong in? Soft Machine? Steve Tibbets, Incredible String Band? Don't all tell me now.... BTW, this is my first post to the Zorn list, been lurking for a couple of months. I've been enjoying the conversation and have picked up some excellent things already based on recommendations I've heard here. So thanks everyone and keep it up.... back to lurking, Don - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:56:06 -0500 Bill Ashline wrote: > >From: Steve Smith > > > >Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... > > Great. I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the year. I hope you understand that my awe was *genuine* and not cynical... my own shelving system is far more pedestrian, and besides, I love the fact that you had a grad advisor who's into death metal. Makes me feel pretty fuckin' OLD, though, and I'm only 34, gadammit... Please tell me that your advisor was 50 and trying to recreate his youth... > >From: Steve Smith > > > >Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > > > > > No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via > >spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. > > > >LOL. Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion... > > True. But I thought it worth indulging Caleb this time around. And I'm > always curious about how large our private libaries are. It's the "Auto da > Fe" in me. Oh, Bill, please don't think I was dissing you for responding to Caleb's request. The fact of the matter is that I simply hadn't gotten around to posting my own response, having chosen to respond to you and dgasque and give props to Patrice and Herb first. Don't you worry, when it comes to a record geek shelving convention, I'll always be the first in line, and I'm not even apologizing about it anymore. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "6," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity) (...and as much as I'm loving this performance, would it have been too much to ask of the Knitting Factory to engage the services of a fucking piano tuner? Or are Yamaha Disclaviers supposedly immune to tuning problems? Not the case according to my ears...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 01:14:11 -0400 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this. I've > got jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's > Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical' > tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by > continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni > Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff > discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything > else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do). What > are your genres? How fine grained do you get? top to bottom: pop (eg. black sabbath, public enemy) mainstream electronica (eg. amon tobin, bjork) experimental electronica (eg. ryoji ikeda, early squarepusher) classic jazz (eg. miles, bill evans, early coltrane) modern jazz (eg. dave holland, steve coleman, john scofield) classical (modern composers) world (regional organization) free jazz (eg. cecil, mat maneri, daniel carter) blended with avant garde (eg. some zorn) but it tends to result that there is a laswell section containing dub, remixes, last exit, sacred system, etc. these all belong in separate places elsewhere, but i keep em together. same for the zorn records: straightahead jazz, chamber music, rapid fire quick-cut genre-bending tunes... so independent of all other classifications, those two occupy th lower rack. the rack is set up so the easiest to reach is the bottom. people who visit my house and want to choose music inevitably get pissed off that they are too short to reach the music they like. man i really need to get that braxton solo disc. np: john coltrane, a love supreme. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: addendum Date: 26 Aug 2000 01:17:58 EDT forgot to include the answer to this, sorry... <> click on Ritornell at http://shop.force-inc.com for descriptions of the ones already out. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 06:03:04 GMT ----Original Message Follows---- Bill Ashline wrote: > >From: Steve Smith > > > >Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... > > Great. I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the year. I hope you understand that my awe was *genuine* and not cynical... my own shelving system is far more pedestrian, and besides, I love the fact that you had a grad advisor who's into death metal. Makes me feel pretty fuckin' OLD, though, and I'm only 34, gadammit... Please tell me that your advisor was 50 and trying to recreate his youth... Actually my former advisor is now 44, just a tad older than me, and he's not trying to recreate his youth; he simply can't stand to live without heavily distorted guitars. But believe me, his organizational methods have been a great source of mirth for all his friends, myself included. I mentioned it for that very reason. Cheers. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: newcomer Date: 26 Aug 2000 11:34:35 +0200 Hi I'm new on the list so recommended on the "AvantGarde" list. Now only lurkin' but don't wanna be undisclosed :))) Greetings to old friends from Avant /lot of folks I see/ and to the new friends. Discussion seems to be very diverse and exciting, real "food for thoughts" Jerzy Matysiakiewicz jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl NP - Beaver & Krause "In a Wild Sanctuary/Gandharva/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels Date: 26 Aug 2000 10:31:27 GMT Hey, >>>In a message dated 8/25/00 3:53:18 PM, OnionPalac@aol.com writes: >>>there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my >>>mind, >>>much more radical music than Tzadik is. >> >>Such as? > >this question wasn't directed to me, but here's my quickly compiled >list: Eh, nobody has mentioned the great and truly pioneering Incus Records!? ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 26 Aug 2000 09:55:20 +0200 > From: "Steve Smith" > > I think it's less marketing, more cult of personality and a general > willingness > > on our part to trust what Zorn's promoting and vote with our dollars. > > Well, yeah, but I think establishing that cult of personality and tying it > to the label so much *is* marketing. Cf. the executive producer credits. I agree with both of you. Jesse seems to be right in saying that it is marketing - i often buy (or at least consider buying - a Tzadik CD costs about 20 USD in Poland) Tzadik CDs because thaey're 'Zorn-recommended'. And it is marketing - if i remember correctly, one of the comany's goals is to help to promote the artists who would remain unknown. But, contary to most marketing strategies I know, i find it very correct. Normally marketing goes along the lines of 'buy it and you're gonna make some funny things with that chick from the third row!'. Here it's different (and here is the major difference between big labels and independent ones). > > "Marketing" suggests the expenditure of time and often money to concoct > ways of > > selling things to people. My sense of Tzadik is more of a guy with some > money > > and a lot of ideas sitting around thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool to have > THAT > > on my shelf?" and then substituting the word "label" for "shelf"... > Perhaps. I was just annoyed by this idea that Tzadik is in any way > struggling or that it's strictly a money-losing labor of love. If you like > the records, of course you should buy them, but I don't think buying a > record on Tzadik is really supporting a tiny little indie who puts out music > without eyes on financial gain. Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but > that's the way it is. And if you really want to vote with your dollars, > there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much > more radical music than Tzadik is. Well, and here we achieve a point that i find quite important: a great point for Tzadik is that they release music that is not alway radical. I find the quest for radicalism a kind of fetechism. I like melodies; i like music, in fact, and melody seems to be a dominating factor of it ( ok maybe that was too strong). The biggets reason of masada's greateness is just the perfect mix of great melodies - superbly arranged and performed - with more noisy elements. And if we look at circle maker, that the melodical factor becomes even more important. That music is IMO similiar in spirit to '20s neoclassicism of ones such as Stravinsky or Hindemith - who made real innovation by the means of looking at tradition(s) and dealing with them. In Zorn's case, Filmworks II should be the best example of such an approach. Noise is, of course, great... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Your Imaginary Friend) Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 09:13:00 -0600 Twenty-five years ago, when my record collection was much smaller and manageable, I went the "by genre" route, but as the collection (and my tastes) grew, I surrendered to the simple allure of "alphabetizing"... So... 1) Alphabetized by last name or name of group (with exceptions: for example, Sun Ra under 'S', since I always refer to him by full name; and prominent leaders of various ensembles and projects - hence, Masada and Naked City are filed under Zorn, and there's lotsa stuff filed under Will Oldham...) 2) Chronological after that - although that's gotten tougher with CD reissues, box sets, &c. - stuck within there usually last... 3) Various artist collections: after 'Z', then alphabetical within that... unless the material has a coherent theme or unifying aspect ('tribute' albums, original cast recordings, Yazoo collections of old jugband music, 'song-poem' comps, &c.) - then it's alphabetized by title in 'A-Z'. Exception: John Giorno's "Dial-a-Poem" series (under 'D')... 4) Collaborations and splits: usually alphabetized by first artist listed (the Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz - O'Rourke/Drumm/Siewert collab on Charizma under 'D' [and thanks again, Jon Abbey!], occasionally by favorite artist (so I can remember it...), even less occasionally by record name (when I just give up)... Laswell's recombinant aesthetic really fucks up all this geekazoid categorizing, but I grin and bear it - his projects are sprinkled all over the place... and the current taste for remixology beyond dance music muddles the distinctions even further. Then there's a rackful of old vinyl records I use(d) for sampling and dj-ing: educational records, children's songs, hypnosis, stereo demonstrations, bird songs, obscure spoken word, &c. - stuff I regard more as "tools", although occasionally one of 'em worms its way into the "listening" collection - go figger... >But believe me, his organizational methods have been a >great source of mirth for all his friends, myself included. I mentioned it >for that very reason. Yep, but for me, laughter with a tinge of quease - reading/watching "High Fidelity" definitely struck bone a couple of times... Jon M. _________________________ Radio Free Norman 96.7 FM http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Recent Goodies (long) Date: 26 Aug 2000 10:19:47 -0400 Ah, birthday splurges! If only I could convince my wife on the utility of semi-annual birthdays... Noel Akchote Rien Winter & Winter A trio session w/ Erik Minkkinen ("computer") & Andrew Sharpley (sampler, turntable), Akchote clearly steers this venture towards the electro-improv side of things, while retaining the moody quality of "Lust Corner". He does a pretty good job, if not up to the rigorous standards of others who do it regularly, though the final cut, "Pousse", where his guitar sound is most traditional, is possibly the best track here. Don't let the back-cover blurb put you off too much: "RIEN is a journey, a road-movie as well as a soundtrack." Yeah, whatever. Fred Anderson, etc 2 Days in April Eremite Solid double disc document of two blowing sessions from 4/99 w/ Kidd Jordan, William Parker and Hamid Drake. Anderson and Drake stand out for me, delivering consistently imaginative, muscular playing. I was less impressed with Jordan, who seems too content to follow Fred's lead and, for the umpteenth time in my experience (warning: heresy to follow), I find nothing special at all with Parker. Perhaps it's the recording conditions, but he sounds muddy and routine throughout much of the session. I would've loved to hear a bassist with more punch and creativity (Kessler, for instance) with this group. Robert Ashley Automatic Writing Lovely Ashley believes himself afflicted with a mild form of Tourette's, wherein he spontaneously utters word-like phrases. So, being an interesting guy, he decided to compose a piece of music around it. The result, "Automatic Writing" is one of the more disturbing, disquieting things I've heard recently; one feels as though one is eaves-dropping on someone mumbling secrets in his sleep. Very eerie and VERY effective. Of the two other pieces included, "Purposeful Lady Slow Afternoon" is another harrowing work, with a rape victim clinically recounting her experience. Highly recommended, but not, as they say, for the squeamish. Marc Blitzstein The Airborne Symphony RCA Victor The original 1946 recording of one of my favorite oddball, one-off pieces of music. Kind of an oratorio celebrating the history of flight and warning of its potentially dire (wartime) consequences, filled with Americana (how many classical works include the terms "snafu" and "fubar"?). I still prefer the early 70's recording with Orson Welles as narrator, but either one is spectacular. Fennesz/O'Rourke/Rehberg The Magic Sound of Fenno'berg Mego Not unfamiliar to most here, I guess. Fine, imaginative work, worth it just for the final track alone, where John Barry's theme from "Moonraker" is looped like a throbbing, heavily breathing creature and subjected to electrostatic bombardment. Tom Johnson An Hour for Piano Lovely Back in the 70's, people had IDEAS for pieces, damn it! Johnson, in particular, was great at melding self-referential ideas into his music and this is a fine example. The listener is asked to read the extensive liner notes while listening to the piece (here performed by Frederic Rzewski), which begin "It is important that you try not to allow the program notes to distract you from concentrating on the music." and go on to force one to seesaw between the text and the music (which is blandly pretty), noting the different accents one "hears" depending on what is being read/heard. Fascinating work. At least to me--I could readily see many being bored to tears. Alvin Lucier Theme Lovely Three new-ish works. The first, "Music for Piano with Magnetic Strings" strikes me as the most successful. The "pianist" (Lois Svard, here), positions 5 e-bows on the strings of a piano and waits for them to sound, adjusting the positions as she sees fit to achieve varying harmonics. One neat aspect is that it takes several minutes for the sound to reach audible levels, so you listen to nothing for a while until a hum begins to creep in and flower. Two other pieces, a setting of a Sam Ashley poem and a work for gamelan ensemble are enjoyable, if less striking. (Various) Pays Masikoro-l'Accordeon Ocora Wonderful hinterlands music from Madagascar featuring accordeon, recorded 1997-99. Dance-oriented (in the village sense), raw and loose. Mario Pavone/Nu Trio Remembering Thomas Knit I caught this trio (Peter Madsen/piano, Matt Wilson/drums) earlier in the summer at the Knit and they were superb, performing, as here, several Thomas Chapin pieces. This recording doesn't quite measure up to that performance but it's still quite solid, inventive and enjoyable. All three players deserve a wider audience. Aki Takahashi Hyper-Beatles EMI (Finally found it, Steve!) Takahashi, known for her performances of Feldman, Cage, Rzewski, etc. commissioned (back in the late 80's) a number of contemporary composers to write arrangements of Beatles tunes. Some deliver a very abstracted product (Cage, Curran, Inoue), others fairly straight, even sentimental readings (Raphael Mostel, Barbara Monk-Feldman). The most successful, for me, are the ones that straddle this divide, especially Peter Garland's version of "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away". I understand there's a Vol. 2, only issued in Japan perhaps, which includes Lucier's take on "Strawberry Fields Forever". Anyone know if it's available? Vandermark 5 Burn the Incline Atavistic Another strong outing from this band, though I don't think any of their recorded output has matched their live play. This fits comfortably in the same zone as previous releases--perhaps fewer KV riff-oriented works. The big plus here is the bonus disc (not always included--be careful) where the band covers some avant classics: "Happy House" (Coleman), "Composition 69L" (Braxton), Conquistador, Part 2" (Taylor), "Goodbye Tom B." (McPhee), "Saturn" (Sun Ra), "Gazzelloni" (Dolphy) and "New York Is Full of Lonely People" (Bowie). This second disc is pretty fine both in the performance achieved and simply in the fact of choosing to record such classics. More, I say. Iannis Xenakis Ensemble Music 2 Mode I've heard complaints about the ST-X performances and of the pieces included here, I only have another version of "Akrata" (on the old Nonesuch release) which does, indeed, strike me as stronger, more visceral. The other works, "Echange", "Okho", "Xas" and "A la Memoire de Witold Lutoslawski" are new to me however and appear to work just fine. Any preferences on these out there? "Okho", for three djembes (low-tuned African drums) and bass drum is especially appealing. They've been previously mentioned, but two recent re-releases are required listening for anybody and everybody: Braxton's "For Alto" and the AEC's "Les Stances a Sophie". Two extraordinarily great albums. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Your Imaginary Friend) Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 09:32:41 -0600 PS: Forgot to mention - the alphabetizing method also provides a cheap thrill when scanning the racks; I imagine collaborations by adjoining artists: Autechre and Albert Ayler, Yoko Ono and Roy Orbison, Yo La Tengo and LaMonte Young... mmm... Oh, and "classical": alphabetical by composer, then chronological by composition, then in the case of multiple recordings of favorite pieces, by preferred performance (too much Mahler!). Jon M. _________________________ Radio Free Norman 96.7 FM http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Fwd: [rumori] consume ground zero!; was: Re: korean music - Date: 26 Aug 2000 12:08:48 -0400 These liner notes by Otomo were sent to the rumori mailing-list last night. He mentions the virtuoso Kim Suk Chul. >X-Sender: wobbly@jetsam.detritus.net >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:02:15 -0700 >To: rumori@detritus.net >From: Jon Leidecker >Subject: [rumori] consume ground zero! >Sender: owner-rumori@jetsam.detritus.net >Reply-To: rumori@detritus.net > >forgive the cross-post if you're also on plunderphonic, but these liner >notes are just inspiring. Many of you have probably already read them but >as I'm finally listening to the 'consume' trilogy in it's entirety this >week I'm all on fire with the text at the moment and wanted to share. > > >Consume Ground Zero! > >by Yoshihide Otomo > >It's easy and maybe even cool to say "to hell with copyright." But of >course, things aren't really that simple. What exactly is the difference >between someone using your >performance on their own CD without your permission and making a load of >money, and GROUND ZERO sampling a revolution-era Pekinese opera to make a CD >that DOESN'T make money? It burns me that a Japanese television network >rotting in money can use my music without my knowing it, and I still don't >get a cent out of >it. But as long as a TV network is paying JASRAC (the one and only >copyright organization in Japan) I'm told it's not illegal. So am I allowed >to sample that TV channel >without paying a cent, and make a CD from it? And then, what happens when >that CD is sampled yet again by Stock, Hausen and Walkman? > >The two main reasons for the existence of copyright are this. When a work >is created by someone, there is ownership in that work. And, if such >ownership exists, there >is the question of how to justifiably turn that into money. My problem is >about the fact that not all forms of creativity can be accredited to a >single entity. And if I'm >correct, what about copyright? > >In the general flow of things, which do not consist of mere solitary >products bobbing along but of things sampled and re-sampled, how can >anybody say for sure who >created what? The first question needs to be directed to the idea that an >artistic work is born from a single entity's creativity. And so forth and >so on. So rather than to go >on talking about it, the idea is to go ahead and do it. > >So it comes to this. GROUND ZERO samples the musical performance of a >Korean national treasure, Kim Suk Chul. Any artistic purist should fly into >a rage right >there. His superhuman playing is without question a product of his own >creativity, but it could also be that he is in fact a vessel for the voices >of gods or ancestors. So >GROUND ZERO takes and samples this brilliant music sacred enough to blow >away any puny ideas about copyright. Then we will have this remixed by a >number of >unique sampling artists and place the two versions on a "chopping board" of >consumption and sampling. Call it public sampling if you will. It's up to >you how you cook >with it. Make it techno or enka or anything you like. What we want to see is >not style or perfection but something beyond that (that is, if there is >such a thing). The >jumble of criticisms and questions that may emerge should outbalance >today's definition of copyright together with its messy problems and >questions of creativity. Go >ahead and butcher this with your own hands. We can talk later. > > >Written in November 1996 > > >---------------------------------------------------- >Rumori, the Detritus.net Discussion List >to unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@detritus.net >with "unsubscribe rumori" in the message body. >---------------------------------------------------- >Rumori list archives & other information are at >http://detritus.net/contact/rumori >---------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:03:48 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > RIT 14 AMBARCHI/FENNESZ/PIMMON/REHBERG/ROWE Afternoon Tea Did this already come out? Or was that a different record? I thought I saw something that those five did together. Oh, and to answer for Jon about Vlad Delay on his label, I *think* Erstwhile does solely improv, ruling Delay out. Though maybe that's just what Erstwhile's specialized in so far. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Recent Goodies (long) Date: 26 Aug 2000 12:13:59 EDT a couple of brief comments of my own on Brian's pickups: <> one of my favorite few records of all time, and probably the one I've played the most of any over the last couple of years. the music is so subtle, yet insidious. also, I like to play it for friends, and in the middle of the piece, tell them that one of my favorite things about it is how it sounds like there's generic dance music coming from the apartment below. then I pause it, and they're invariably amazed, since they too had thought that it was from downstairs. ok, thanks for indulging me.... <> Brian says: <> count me in the latter group. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Ritornell Date: 26 Aug 2000 12:22:42 EDT In a message dated 8/26/00 12:18:13 PM, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << > RIT 14 AMBARCHI/FENNESZ/PIMMON/REHBERG/ROWE Afternoon Tea Did this already come out? Or was that a different record? I thought I saw something that those five did together. >> it's out in Europe, but not here yet. there's always a few weeks in between with Mille Plateaux and Ritornell releases. you also might be thinking of the track they contributed to the Ritornell sampler CD, Maschinelle Strategeme, which I was underwhelmed by (both the track and the whole sampler). Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong? Date: 26 Aug 2000 15:12:07 -0400 And JSP will soon be releasing a 5-CD Jelly Roll Morton for a similarly inexpensive price. Alan Lankin lankina@att.net --- jazzmatazz == http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz ----- Original Message ----- Sent: August 13, 2000 9:29 PM > [...[ thought I'd add that the four JSPs are now > available in a box set (one of those where they just took the original > album and added a case) that I've seen in a large chain for $23, a little > less than what I actually paid for the first two alone. JSP also has a > dirt-cheap box of their Django - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 27 Aug 2000 00:55:49 -0700 I organize my music collection according to what I like to do while listening to them. (Excuse the preponderence of dangling prepositions): Music Exclusively For Listening To Music To Dine To Music To Make Love To Music To Have Casual Sex To Music To Read To Music To Bathe To Music To Meditate To Music To Email To Music To Dance To Music To Play When My Family Is Home Music For Guests Who Are Friends Of My Wife Music To Play When I Wish The Guests Would Leave Music To Get Drunk To Music To Get High To and so on . . . Requires buying duplicates or taping copies of some releases. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Schuller" Subject: Frith, Haino, Mori cd's Date: 26 Aug 2000 16:07:39 PDT I have put some other avant jazz stuff up at eBay. Including things by Ribot, Frith, Mori, Akchote, Chadbourne, Haino etc. Seller name schules Thanks, John ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Fw: Tzadik (was: sponsoring) Date: 26 Aug 2000 21:33:47 -0400 > > Where did you hear that? That's actually not true. The radio station > where > > I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases (and I thank them for it). And > I'm > > almost positive I've seen a Tzadik ad (though it could have been for > Avant). > > The one that has the logo and a long list of all the musicians. I > wouldn't > > know about press releases, but the blurbs on the webpage certainly read > like > > them. And you'd figure if someone bothers to write them, they'd send them > > out. . . I don't know about ads, but Kazunori very specifically told me that they don't give out promos to very many people, though your radio station may be one. I've bought all the discs that I've reviewed from them. Perhaps your station does the same. > > > I don't understand people's continued insistence that Zorn/Tzadik is so > DIY > > and poor. Zorn does very well, I'm sure, and I wouldn't call an indie > label > > that can afford to give $5000 recording advances and fancy artwork on a > > "tight budget." Tzadik's success is due in a large part to savvy > marketing, > > plain and simple. It's no accident that the records have a uniform art > > theme, come in easily-grouped series, and are strongly identified with > Zorn > > (if I'm not mistaken, he's listed as "executive producer" for all > releases). > > There's plenty of labels that release great music but don't have their > > records "sought out." Unfortunately, marketing has quite a bit to do with > > it, and Tzadik has done that well. Uh, I'm not sure how "savvy marketing" cancels out DIY. I'm pretty sure that his savvy marketing doesn't include getting artists placed on the Sony roster, therefore Tzadik is certainly a DIY effort. I think. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 21:34:22 -0400 > pop (eg. black sabbath, public enemy) HAHAHAHAHAHA! AHHAAHAHAHAHAH! That is SOOOOO funny! I mean, I know you didn't mean for it to be, but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 26 Aug 2000 23:27:19 -0400 I use the simple alphabetical, with no organisation within artists. The one split in my collection is between those that I've listened to at least once and those that I haven't. To my somewhat chagrin, I now appear to have more of the latter. My boxed sets are together on a separate shelf, along with single discs (such as Trey Gunn's "The Third Star") which are too tall for my normal shelves. My (listened-to) collections/compilations are together, but in no order. The same is true of my growing collection of 3" CDs, which are in a diskette holder. Back when I had lotsa records (some 2000, almost all now disappeared), I shelved them right to left, the reverse of the usual, since that meant that when I turned my head to read the spines, the titles were in alphabetical order, top down. I've started using a rather good cataloging program for Windows, Catraxx, to track my collection. It's gonna take a while: right now, I have 496 catalogued, which gets me through "K" of those I've listened to, except for about 100 that weren't CDDB. Yeesh. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: RE: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 27 Aug 2000 01:30:50 -0400 records collection = penis size ? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: RE: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 27 Aug 2000 06:27:53 GMT ----Original Message Follows---- records collection = penis size ? - a surrogate for a lack thereof. (Everything is always "lack" in psychoanalysis--Freud was never abundant apparently.) Or rather, a fair estimate of a primal obsession. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: RE: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 27 Aug 2000 11:32:11 GMT Hey, >records collection = penis size ? Naturally! That's why I prefer vinyl to CDs. Makes bigger impact. ARTHUR_G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 27 Aug 2000 09:48:18 -0400 > I've started using a rather good cataloging program for Windows, Catraxx, > to track my collection. It's gonna take a while: right now, I have 496 > catalogued, which gets me through "K" of those I've listened to, except > for about 100 that weren't CDDB. Yeesh. I hope you entered em. Contribute to the world's only CD research library. It always gives me a thrill when I have a CD that's not in there and I get to make the first entry. Some sort of Polar Explorer rush. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: metal: black etc Date: 27 Aug 2000 10:34:16 -0400 The Aquarius Records mailings have interesting sounding descriptions of some underground metal & Merzbow puts in a good word in The Wire. But does anybody know if there is actually any of this that really lives up to that? I listen to the metal shows periodically on local radio and they do play a lot of black/death/underground metal but it all seems so unimaginative and tedious. Is there better out there? LT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 27 Aug 2000 11:53:13 -0400 I am by no means an expert on the underground stuff that AQ talks about. I would also like to hear some of it that they hype so well. Some friends convinced me to try early Slayer, Venom, Metallica (well, only some tracks on Kill 'em All), but what really got me converted to Black Metal was hearing Napalm Death's "Scum" and Carcass's "Reek of Putrefaction" I unqualifiedly (is that a word?) recommend these records as listenable and strange worlds to visit, but I don't live there. I kinda like Burzum, Morbid Angel, and Pan.Thy.Monium. I've yet to find any Mayhem, who are supposed to be the pinnacle of black metal. matt wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: > The Aquarius Records mailings have interesting sounding descriptions of some underground metal & Merzbow puts in a good word in The Wire. But does anybody know if there is actually any of this that really lives up to that? I listen to the metal shows periodically on local radio and they do play a lot of black/death/underground metal but it all seems so unimaginative and tedious. Is there better out there? > > LT > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: David Bowie/Joey Baron ? Date: 27 Aug 2000 12:46:04 -0400 Hello list, being a fan of David Bowie, I've had the "Outside" CD for a long time, and I was just watching it and realized that a Joey Barron plays drums ... I imagine this is the same Joey Baron we all know. So now I'm looking for a Joey Baron discography because I'm curious where he has played. Hope you can help me with this. Thanks Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. Cocteau Twins - Garlands - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 27 Aug 2000 13:49:19 -0400 (EDT) My "golden" rule is to not file the CD unless I've listened to it at least twice -- to get a feel of how it sounds. That way I have some sort of aural memory when I want to pull it out again. That works well, except when I buy a lot at once (like the 14 I just brought back from NYC). Luckily I have a "boom box" in the kitchen and a CD player in this computer. For most of us, though, I'd say the biggest problem isn't organization, but space. With 600 plus CDs, not to mention thousands of LPs and about 200 casettes, the filing space near the stereo is getting a little crowded. Not to mention all the books that have to be filed around there as well. Ken Waxman (N.P. AMM To Hear and Back Again --won't many of their laid back fans be surprised when they put this on and find it's an "energy" blow out a la Trane and Ali) --- Joseph Zitt wrote: > I use the simple alphabetical, with no organisation > within artists. The one split in my collection is between those that I've listened to at least once and those that I haven't. To my somewhatchagrin, I now appear to have more of the latter. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 27 Aug 2000 13:15:15 -0400 On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 09:48:18AM -0400, Peter Risser wrote: > > I've started using a rather good cataloging program for Windows, Catraxx, > > to track my collection. It's gonna take a while: right now, I have 496 > > catalogued, which gets me through "K" of those I've listened to, except > > for about 100 that weren't CDDB. Yeesh. > > > I hope you entered em. Contribute to the world's only CD research library. > It always gives me a thrill when I have a CD that's not in there and I get > to make the first entry. Some sort of Polar Explorer rush. I've only entered a few -- but I've moved those that were not yet in there into a separate pile, so that I can enter them when I have time to breathe. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 14:39:07 EDT I believe the world is coming to and end. I recently purchased David Sanborn's "Another Hand" (1991) due to the fact that is has Frisell, Ribot, Baron, Tronzo, Greg Cohen, Charlie Haden, and a few other whom I never in a million years would have guessed were on a Sanborn album (There's even a special thanks to Zorn amongst others who's names are so distant from Sanborn's music and sound). It is quite interesting because for the most part everyone sounds like themselves (I've always thought that Sanborn is a skilled musician even though I hate his music.) While most of the album sounds a cruel and disturbing joke of splicing Sanborn and the names mentioned earlier there is something more disturbing. I love on of the songs and EVERYONE's playing on it! Greg Cohen arranges a medley of Prayer for Charlie, from the Devil at Four O' Clock, and The Lonely, from the Twilight Zone. Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside? I was wondering if anyone else had opinions of this album. Also a member was looking for info on Joey Baron so these sights should help. Discography: http://www.songtone.com/Artists/Baron (Songtone's Joey Baron page) http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet/baron.htm (semi complete through 1995 I think) http://www.ejn.it/mus/baron.htm (Selected Discography and Bio) Misc. Links: http://www.musicsearcher.com/b/Baron,Joey.php3 (links to Baron related sites) http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/ns-sym/ns-sym-baron.html (a wonderful lecture from 1994) http://www.drumweb.com/drummerf.shtml (links to many drummers) Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 14:56:37 -0400 User384726@aol.com wrote: Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside? I was > wondering if anyone else had opinions of this album. I don't know the album in question, but Sanborn's roots go back to St. Louis. I think, where he played as a youth with members of that city's Black Artist Group including Hemphill and Lester Bowie. When he hosted that (very) late night music program on NBC (Night Music, right?), Zorn appeared and Sanborn joined him for a tear through of a Zorn piece (Roadrunner?). So, yeah, he has some perhaps unexpected roots. Brian Olewnick NP: Martin Jagodic - Tempo Furioso (on antennaradio) PS--Incidentally, caught Eskelin's trio w/Parker and Black last night--extremely fine! Stronger live than on disc. Catch 'em if they're nearby! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 23:59:54 -0700 >>>Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside?<<< Sandborn's TV Show "Night Music" from a few years back was a pretty surprising showcase (at times) for the music we know and love. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 15:01:46 EDT In a message dated 8/27/00 2:57:15 PM, olewnik@idt.net writes: << I don't know the album in question, but Sanborn's roots go back to St. Louis. I think, where he played as a youth with members of that city's Black Artist Group including Hemphill and Lester Bowie. When he hosted that (very) late night music program on NBC (Night Music, right?), Zorn appeared and Sanborn joined him for a tear through of a Zorn piece (Roadrunner?). So, yeah, he has some perhaps unexpected roots. >> Sanborn also appears (and definitely holds his own) on Tim Berne's Hemphill tribute CD, Diminutive Mysteries (mostly Hemphill) (JMT). Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: genres Date: 27 Aug 2000 15:06:53 -0500 ah, hell, i'll confess... after coming to the realization that the more catagories you have, the more headaches you have, i stripped down to two sections a coupla years ago: vocal and instrumental. that caused a couple curiosities (eugene chadbourne being divided, haino being hard to peg (i eventually decided that, for me, his music wasn't 'vocally-driven' and put him in with the instrumentalists). this year, though, i switched again, putting my records in line with my Grand Scheme of All Music, something i've hinted at here before but, inexplicably, have never been queried on. my cds are now divided into the Three True Divisions of Music, that being 'improvised', 'through-composed' and 'folk.' ('folk' being a sort of peasant term for any music that people might sing the lyrics along with, stomp their feet, bang their heads, etc. much of what many foolish people term 'world music' is included here, for example, as well as country, blues, rock, etc.) for years, my 1000s or whatever were simply arranged alphabetically. but as the collection swelled and i ended up with two nonmatching shelves and a large cabinet of drawers, i grew annoyed with the scattershot way the alphabet was being treated. i've actually removed a few into very small catagories like spoken word. compositions for specific purposes are also segregated within 'through- composed,' like film soundtracks, radio plays, stageplays and, my favorite, music composed for fashion shows (the only two in this section are by hoppy kamiyama and seigen ono (so what's up with runway shows in japan, anyway?)). i've known people to do the color-of-spine scheme (but what do you do with black saint releases?). i also had a friend who did them by producer. tricky, but end result is he now knows who produced every rock record in the world. if i ever bother to rearrange again (unlikely) i think i'd like to do a geographic point-of-origin sorta thing. lovers and roommates never quite having understood, it's nice to chat here -- damn watta buncha obsessive freaks. np: pantychrist ps: what avant-garde list, how do i find it and is it worth my time? same questions for the frith list i've heard about. at this point i'm more into 'discussion' than 'update' sortsa lists. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Mailing lists (was: genres) Date: 27 Aug 2000 19:36:00 GMT >ps: what avant-garde list, how do i find it and is it worth my time? >same >questions for the frith list i've heard about. at this point i'm >more into >'discussion' than 'update' sortsa lists. Don't know anything about the avant-garde list. Would also be interested to hear more. The Frith list is great, though not very active. Particulary interesting because Frith himself is very frequent poster. He's been away for a while, but has just returned. If Zorn also took the time to write on this list we'd all be without many bad rumors and speculations. Frith is doing a great job taking care of this on his list! Check it out: www.fredfrith.com JONAS _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 27 Aug 2000 15:56:59 EDT Gorguts - Obscura Dillinger Escape Plan - Under the Running Board Napalm Death - most of 'em, except for the last couple - Fear, Emptiness, Despair is the best Cryptopsy - Whisper Supremacy -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Sanborn/Butterfield Date: 27 Aug 2000 21:58:58 +0200 >(I've always thought that Sanborn is a > skilled musician even though I hate his music.) Somebody remembers fantastic Sanborn's solo in "In My Own Dream" recorded in 1968 with Paul Butterfield's Band ?? Jerzy NP : Ute Lemper - City of Strangers - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 16:03:54 EDT In a message dated 8/27/00 2:40:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, User384726@aol.com writes: << I believe the world is coming to and end. I recently purchased David Sanborn's "Another Hand" (1991) due to the fact that is has Frisell, Ribot, Baron, Tronzo, Greg Cohen, Charlie Haden, and a few other whom I never in a million years would have guessed were on a Sanborn album (There's even a special thanks to Zorn amongst others who's names are so distant from Sanborn's music and sound) >> Surely some people here have/have heard Diminuitive Mysteries (JMT), the Tim Berne Hemphill-written 'tribute' album, with Sanborn all over it? He acquits himself wonderfully, and their sounds are not at all far apart. Ducret, Hank Roberts and Joey Baron round out the band, and Dresser and Herb Robertson guest on the only non-Hemphill-penned tune. BTW, Herb Robertson's Certified came out around this time, also on JMT. Its probably a long shot, but grab it if you see it used anywhere; its also great. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: genres-mailing lists Date: 27 Aug 2000 17:08:15 EDT In a message dated 8/27/00 12:15:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kurt_gottschalk@scni.com writes: << ps: what avant-garde list, how do i find it and is it worth my time? same questions for the frith list i've heard about. at this point i'm more into 'discussion' than 'update' sortsa lists. >> This list can be subscribed to at egroups.com. It generally focuses on free jazz and has many thoughtful contributors. Many have migrated over here(I also resubscribed.) It can come in digest form so you won't be bombarded in your mailbox. Also at egroups.com is Feigenbaum's avant-progressive mailing list which focuses on Magma, Japanese music, and things generally seen in a Wayside catalogue. This is also very worthwhile. John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 17:20:21 EDT In a message dated 8/27/00 2:40:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, User384726@aol.com writes: <<(I've always thought that Sanborn is a skilled musician even though I hate his music.) >> Right on the money. He's done some outstanding work on several recordings with Gil Evans' band, well worth checking out. Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Antonio_Mart=EDn?= Subject: RE: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 23:29:41 +0200 "Another hand" is a wonderful record. Joey Baron is trying to do the same thing with his records. "Down Home" it=B4s an example. It sounds exactly like "another hand", but I think that the problem is that Sanborn is better than Arthur Blythe, then Baron must to try another way and not copy. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 8:39 PM > I believe the world is coming to and end. I recently purchased David > Sanborn's "Another Hand" (1991) due to the fact that is has Frisell, Ri= bot, > Baron, Tronzo, Greg Cohen, Charlie Haden, and a few other whom I never = in a > million years would have guessed were on a Sanborn album (There's even = a > special thanks to Zorn amongst others who's names are so distant from > Sanborn's music and sound). It is quite interesting because for the mo= st > part everyone sounds like themselves (I've always thought that Sanborn = is a > skilled musician even though I hate his music.) While most of the albu= m > sounds a cruel and disturbing joke of splicing Sanborn and the names > mentioned earlier there is something more disturbing. I love on of the= songs > and EVERYONE's playing on it! Greg Cohen arranges a medley of Prayer f= or > Charlie, from the Devil at Four O' Clock, and The Lonely, from the Twil= ight > Zone. Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside? I w= as > wondering if anyone else had opinions of this album. > Also a member was looking for info on Joey Baron so these sights sh= ould > help. > > > Discography: > > http://www.songtone.com/Artists/Baron (Songtone's Joey Baron page) > > http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet/baron.htm (semi complete through 19= 95 I > think) > > http://www.ejn.it/mus/baron.htm (Selected Discography and Bio) > > > Misc. Links: > http://www.musicsearcher.com/b/Baron,Joey.php3 (links to Baron related= sites) > > http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/ns-sym/ns-sym-baron.html (a wonder= ful > lecture from 1994) > > http://www.drumweb.com/drummerf.shtml (links to many drummers) > > Aaron Solomon > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: genres-mailing lists Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:14:28 -0400 Hopefully I'm not the only one with this question. I hate to miss a source. Re: "Also at egroups.com is Feigenbaum's avant-progressive mailing list which focuses on Magma, Japanese music, and things generally seen in a Wayside catalogue. " What's a Wayside catalogue.? Yours in ignorance, Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: wayside Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:29:28 -0400 At 06:14 PM 8/27/00 -0400, Matt Laferty wrote: >Hopefully I'm not the only one with this question. I hate to miss a source. > >Re: "Also at egroups.com is Feigenbaum's avant-progressive mailing >list which focuses on Magma, Japanese music, and things generally seen in a >Wayside catalogue. " > >What's a >Wayside catalogue.? To save Steve F. the trouble, Wayside is one of the best and longest running mail order places in the biz (predating the internet by a decade or so), specializing in progressive rock from all over, but also an official mail order source for Tzadik, official US distributor of ReR, house their own label (Cuneiform), and carry many other great labels whom you wouldn't necessarily put in the progrock bucket. They annually publish a green catalogue of items they think they can keep in stock all year, plus three updates of specials, rarities, etc. All the information is also available on the web at http://www.waysidemusic.com. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:35:30 EDT In a message dated 8/27/00 3:57:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Nudeants@aol.com writes: << Gorguts - Obscura >> This is a *great* CD, agreed. Avant-garde metal at its best. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: genres-mailing lists Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:41:05 EDT The link for the Avant-Garde list as well as many other jazz lists can be found here: http://msnyder.dragonfire.net/mailinglists.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 27 Aug 2000 15:47:16 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Nudeants@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 12:57 PM > Gorguts - Obscura > Dillinger Escape Plan - Under the Running Board > Napalm Death - most of 'em, except for the last couple - Fear, > Emptiness, > Despair is the best > Cryptopsy - Whisper Supremacy Funny, my list would have looked almost exactly like this! Except that I'd add Meshuggah's "Chaosphere." (I think it was Steve Smith who kept going on and on about Meshuggah and Gorguts.) I'd also recommend Slayer's "South of Heaven." And for some gleefully over-the-top stuff, Cradle of Filth's... I can't remember the title, it's the one with the half-naked woman on the cover... Later, Ben np: scott walker, "it's raining today" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:54:25 -0400 (EDT) "Downtown" is a state of mind. Sanborn first came to prominence playing in the Butterfield Blues Band. See/hear The Resurrection of Pigboy Crabshaw' (Elektra), which also features the late AACM jazz drummer Phil Wilson. He's also featured on Tim Berne's saxophone salute to Julius Hemphill. Don't look for him playing Tonic any time soon, though. Ken Waxman Does David have some Downtown hidden > somewhere deep inside? _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shlomo Weintraub Subject: live Estradasphere MP3s! Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:15:33 +0200 hi, I found this link on the www.estradaphere.com homepage .......... go ahead downloading (and uploading.. maybe...) Karl's FTP(ftp://hunnahpu.myip.org login: estrada, password: sphere) A fan archive of live Estradasphere MP3s! tsch=F6 mit =F6 shlomo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:21:15 -0500 Last week I mentioned that I'd list some of the many composers & performers who've been using MAX and other modular/interactive software programs in live electronic performances long before the current crop of laptop improvisers. Sorry it took awhile to get back to this - here's a few things to check out: Most of the recordings on the American (not the Canadian label with the same name) Artifact label (including the HUB, it's member musicians, Larry Polansky, Jim Horton, & others) are relevant here (many early releases use home-brew software programs that were precursors to MIDI,let alone MAX, et al) and most of the electronic composers associated with the composer collective Frog Peak (again, the earlier works use earlier systems) . Specific composers who aren't represented on the above labels include Alvin Curran (recent eletronic works) , Karlheinz Essl , George Lewis , Laurie Spiegel , Carl Stone . Macintosh users can download working samples from The Essl & Spiegel sites (Lexikon-Sonate & Music Mouse, respectively). There's also related work by earlier composers (as often as not also made using homebrew software rather than MAX, etc.) using small computer systems with a table full of electronics like David Behrman , Joel Chadabe , Jerry Hunt , Gordon Mumma , David Tudor , etc. More than anyone really wanted to know, I'm sure, but hey. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Called out Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:21:15 -0500 When I lived in Seattle, Periplum wasn't a bedroom label, but here in Fort Worth it is, til we finally move. Right now there are six Periplum CDs out, with about lots more in the works. This year a lot of things were delayed by our move to the Metroplex. Out now are P0010 Suspended Music: compositions by Pauline Oliveros & Ellen Fullman performed collectively by Deep Listening Band (Oliveros, Stuart Dempster & David Gamper) & Fullman's Long String Instrument (about 100 strings each about 90 feet long for this performance played by Fullman, Elise Gould & Nigel Jacobs) P0020 Burning Water: interactive computer music created by Martin Bartlett, with performances by Peter Hannan - alto recorder; George E Lewis - trombone; Frances-Marie Uitti - cello; & Bartlett - live electronics & programming P0030 Catacombs of Yucatan: improvisations and compositions for home-made instruments by Dan Senn P0040 Archipelago: ambient/improv by LAND, a collective band including Lesli Dalaba, Jeff Greinke, Dennis Rea & others P0050 Clamourous Alphabet: collaboration by clarinetist/composer Francois Houle & poet Catriona Strang P0060 Sound Without Picture: a series of electro-acoustic pieces by Nicolas Collins that deal with the senses Work on upcoming releases has been delayed by our move to the Metroplex, but at least some of the following CDs will be out this fall with the rest out in winter 2001 Oo-ee: a set of solo works for flute commissioned by Paul Taub, composers include Janice Giteck, Robin Holcomb, Bun-Ching Lam, David Mahler, Julian Priester and others Walking by Byron Au Yong: evocative compositions for combinations of Western and Asian instruments Soliloquy by Philip Arnautoff: a concert-length work for an instrument Arnautoff built that's a modification of Harry Partch's harmonic canon Otis Spann by Wayne Horvitz: a chamber work for flute, clarinet, cello & violin, as well as solos and duets with Wayne for these instruments New Songs: a series of songs for voice & piano performed by Ann Obery & David Mahler, composers include John Luther Adams, Peter Garland, Robin Holcomb, David Mahler, Maggi Payne, Susan Stenger and others -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 27 Aug 2000 16:45:19 -0700 At 3:47 PM 8/27/00, Benito Vergara wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Nudeants@aol.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 12:57 PM > >> Gorguts - Obscura >> Dillinger Escape Plan - Under the Running Board >> Napalm Death - most of 'em, except for the last couple - Fear, >> Emptiness, >> Despair is the best >> Cryptopsy - Whisper Supremacy > >Funny, my list would have looked almost exactly like this! Except that I'd >add Meshuggah's "Chaosphere." (I think it was Steve Smith who kept going on >and on about Meshuggah and Gorguts.) I'd also recommend Slayer's "South of >Heaven." And for some gleefully over-the-top stuff, Cradle of Filth's... I >can't remember the title, it's the one with the half-naked woman on the >cover... > Must second the recommendation for Meshuggah! Chaosphere is perhaps my alltime favorite metal album. Their earlier disc Destroy Erase Improve works in some very effective Holdsworth/Terje Rypdal-ish fusion. Also, I'd have to recommend Strapping Young Lad. Not as complex as Meshuggah, but with a hilarous and ironic sense of humor, and some truly inspired hooks. "City" is probably their best record, but "Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing" and the live "No Sleep Till Bedtime" are worth it just for the titles! ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 28 Aug 2000 04:47:31 -0700 What genre are God and Godflesh? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 19:01:49 -0400 On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 02:39:07PM -0400, User384726@aol.com wrote: > Zone. Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside? I was > wondering if anyone else had opinions of this album. The secret link, if memory serves, is that the album was produced by Hal Willner, who also put together similar amazing aggregates as Music Directory for "Night Music", which Sanborn hosted, and the tribute series that included "That's The Way I Feel Now (Monk)", "Amacord Nino Rota", "Stay Awake (Disney)", and other they-did-what? classics. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: need chadbourne material Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:22:54 -0400 Hi, I'm running Will York's interview with Chadbourne in my zine Adventures In Sound and thought it would be nice to have an accompanying review or two. Somebody had contacted me about a live review of a Chadbourne appearance with a Finnish (Swedish?) folk band but I've lost the message. I'd also be greatly interested in something about his book, the "LSDC&W" reissue or the new Avant collaboration. Or if you have other ideas please contact me off list. Thanks, Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: theory.org.uk trading cards Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:30:59 -0400 http://www.theory.org.uk/cards/ Off topic sure (we're allowed two per year right?) but still of interest to many Zornlisters. Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:38:54 EDT In a message dated 8/27/00 6:51:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sunny70@sirius.com writes: << Funny, my list would have looked almost exactly like this! Except that I'd add Meshuggah's "Chaosphere." (I think it was Steve Smith who kept going on and on about Meshuggah and Gorguts.) I'd also recommend Slayer's "South of Heaven." And for some gleefully over-the-top stuff, Cradle of Filth's... I can't remember the title, it's the one with the half-naked woman on the cover... >> I knew I forgot something! I'd but both of Meshuggah's on there, actually. Also, a band called Human Remains put out an EP called 'Using Sickness as a Hero' which is very good, though only 17 minutes long. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: Delay/"Automatic Writing"/Dean Roberts? Date: 27 Aug 2000 20:40:14 -0600 Bill Wrote: >I'm particular interested in Vladislav Delay these days. I wonder if Jon >has thought about working with him. ME TOO!. (interested in him that is). I bought "entain" (Mille Plateaux) out of curiousity...listened to it once and enjoyed it well enough but couldn't form an opinion...really interesting sounds but I couldn't figure out if the disc was much more than an enjoyable undulating soundscape. I listened again and still had about the same reaction. I kept listening to it simply because I enjoyed the sounds but eventually I began to get a feel for the whole album. I really think it is one long album...not 5 tracks. then I listened louder and louder. it got better and better. I think that the album is carefully thought out and rather effective. People who can handle really slowly evolving music might enjoy this. It reminds me of Automatic Writing a bit. The breathing, voices, mumblings that Delay hides under the sounds are really captivating and at times almost erotic. Different from the disturbing feeling that the voices in automatic writing transmit. Entain is very captivating but Automatic writing is incredible. If you haven't heard it please do. FWIW- I also bought a copy of Delay's "Multila" because I liked "Entain" so much but Multila hasn't grown on me much at all. For those who like entain I'd recommend Plastikman (richie Hawtin)'s album "Consumed". I like that one a bunch too although all I have is a burned copy and badly burned at that...there are short silences between tracks which are a bit frustrating. Jon Wrote: >also, if you haven't heard Dean's Ritornell release yet, you should. I'd be curious to hear some comments his solo releases. I haven't heard any of his music. I saw "All Cracked Media" at Forced Exposure which I thought was on Mille Plateaux. Is this the disc you're refering to Jon? The only other one I've seen listed is "Moth Park: Soundtracks to Utopia" on a New Zealand label. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:43:23 -0400 Yeah, boy, I sure wish they'd bring THESE back to some cable channel or other. > >>>Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside?<<< > > Sandborn's TV Show "Night Music" from a few years back was a pretty > surprising showcase (at times) for the music we know and love. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:01:06 -0400 On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 10:43:23PM -0400, Peter Risser wrote: > Yeah, boy, I sure wish they'd bring THESE back to some cable channel or > other. They useta have them on BET on Jazz twice daily. I suspect they'll eventually return. Though usually horribly laden with Smoooooooth Jazz, the channel has some surprises. Right now I'm watching "Live at the Knitting Factory" with Lee Ranaldo/William Hooker duets and the Matthew Shipp Trio. A good show, though week after week the tape appears to snarl and glitch. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Delay/Dean Roberts? Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:56:33 EDT Vladislav Delay fans might be interested in checking this out: <> <> no, All Cracked Medias is on Mille Plateaux and is from 1998. then early this year, he released And the Black Moths Play The Grand Cinema on Ritornell which is the CD I was referring to. <> he's very chameleon-like, working in numerous different contexts. for instance, earlier this week, I saw him play the harmonium with Tony Conrad and Tim Barnes at the Angus MacLise CD release party. I'm still waiting to hear the recording of his concert with Otomo in New Zealand earlier this year, which the audience supposedly hated. I'd suggest starting with either the Mille Plateaux one (which is all-instrumental, and very good, although it took a few listens to grow on me) or the Ritornell one (which as I said in the last post, has some vocals). I actually think that Aluminium may be his most fully realized project yet, but I'm obviously biased. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "robert ludington" Subject: Music library(was: genres) (long-ish) Date: 28 Aug 2000 03:00:16 GMT Fellow Zornsters, I've come to appreciate the vast amount of wisedom and expertise on this list as i've mainly lurked(posted & asked for help a few times) for a couple of years, and first off i want to thank everyone for that & their help. I also wanted to submit an idea i've been mulling over for quite some time now, pretty much every spare second i get when not working, or doing school stuff, and i was wondering if i could get people's opnions on it... Although it might not seem it, it is related to the Zorn-list mainly because one of the discussions on here about music collections/libraries(last fall was it?) is what sparked the idea. Basically i am really dissapointed by both the lack of music in public libraries and the condition they are usually in, and also that many people cannot seem to find good homes for their old vinyl as the replace it with CD's.... and also the meager few dollars one gets for used CD's, especially of the more 'out' variety(ever try explaining why you feel you deserve more than $1.50 for a Eugene Chadborne cd & it's worth, even though you don't particularly want that album anymore?) So anyhow, i was thinking that as awesome as it is that alot of people support their favorite artists, and like Zorn, have huge record collections, i thought why not try to create a *public* library of this sort, concentrating strictly on music(and maybe a few music related books/video's) and also try to specialize in rare traditional jazz/avant/indie rock/classical/etc?? This way everyone could share & benifit from it, and hear music that they wouldn't normally be exposed too, and check it out for a few weeks & maybe get turned on so that they are buying albums of this artist & related ones? I've tried discussing this idea with friends, kids my age and gotten enthusiastic responses, but no real constructive critisism on how i might improve my plan, or get it started, etc... so again, i figure i would turn to the list since i've gotten such great response to posts before.... and yeah, i do realize a few problems already (besides funding, which i would want to try to get a 'non-proft' status)... problems like theft, the records/CDs comming back in bad condition, and that some people/artists might argue that it encourages copyright infringement(ie: someone borrows an album, likes it, then tapes it & brings the album back & never needs to buy a copy). All appoligies if this isn't list-related enough to warrent discussion, i guess if not & someone has any comments, please send them to me privately. well, thanks for reading this & i hope that i do get some response, ~rob~ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sh" Subject: Sixun Date: 28 Aug 2000 00:36:36 -0300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_020F_01C01088.05C3F960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was reading an interview with Gary Willis recently, and in it, the = interviewer mentioned a band called Sixun. A search for them or their = records returned no responses. Anyone got some info for me? Thanks. Scott ------=_NextPart_000_020F_01C01088.05C3F960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was reading an interview with Gary Willis = recently, and in=20 it, the interviewer mentioned a band called Sixun.  A search for = them or=20 their records returned no responses.  Anyone got some info for = me? =20 Thanks.
 
Scott
------=_NextPart_000_020F_01C01088.05C3F960-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Brad Shepik Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:35:38 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01105.9DA1A8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A friend of mine played me a CD with Brad Shepik playing mostly acoustic = guitar with an accordion and bass (played by Tony Scherr), it was a more = 'traditional'=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01105.9DA1A8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A friend of mine played me a CD with = Brad Shepik=20 playing mostly acoustic guitar with an accordion and bass (played by = Tony=20 Scherr), it was a more 'traditional'
------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01105.9DA1A8E0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Brad Shepik (continued) Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:42:32 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C01106.948B3180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, hit the wrong key and the message somehow sent itself... Anyway, the CD I was talking about had a more 'traditional' Russian = flavour even though the tunes were mostly originals by the accordionist = and Shepik. Anyway, I have looked around quite a bit for Shepik stuff = and didn't know he did this kind of thing. So firstly, does anyone know = of recordings such as this one which feature Shepik? And secondly does = anyone have any recommendations of his other work (aside from Pachora = and Tiny Bell Trio)? ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C01106.948B3180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, hit the wrong key and the = message somehow=20 sent itself...
 
Anyway, the CD I was talking = about had a more=20 'traditional' Russian flavour even though the tunes were mostly = originals by the=20 accordionist and Shepik. Anyway, I have looked around quite a bit for = Shepik=20 stuff and didn't know he did this kind of thing. So firstly, does anyone = know of=20 recordings such as this one which feature Shepik? And secondly does = anyone have=20 any recommendations of his other work (aside from Pachora and Tiny Bell=20 Trio)?
------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C01106.948B3180-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re: Brad Shepik (continued) Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:21:22 -0400 Hello Julian, It's absolutely mysterious thing but I just finished to listen this CD! It is trio "Tridruga" with Yuri Lemeshev on accordion and Tony Scherr on bass balalaika and Brad on acoustic guitar. "Tridruga" ("tri druga" actually) means "three friends" in Russian. Lemeshev played in lots of Soviet groups and bands even in "Plamia" ("flame") which was very famous pop band. He played keyboards there though. The self titled CD (Love Slave Records LVS 103, http://www.lvslv.com/) contains several tunes by Brad and Yuri and one by Alfred Schnittke. All of them remind me of Soviet film music of sixties and seventies. They are very mellow, romantic and beautiful. They are performed in kind of sophisticated manner though. I heard Shepik with his own quinet (Brad Shepik - guitar,saz; Peter Epstein - saxophones; Fima Ephron - bass; Mike Sarin - drums; Seido Salifoski: dumbeks, percussion) and it was very interesting. It was the presentation of his new CD "The Well" (Songlines). I think you should pay attention to this project as well as to Matt Dariau's Paradox Trio with Matt on reeds, Rufus Cappadocia on cello and Seido Salifoski on dumbeks and percussion. Monday, August 28, 2000, you wrote to me: J> Anyway, the CD I was talking about had a more 'traditional' Russian J> flavour even though the tunes were mostly originals by the J> accordionist and Shepik. Anyway, I have looked around quite a bit J> for Shepik stuff and didn't know he did this kind of thing. So J> firstly, does anyone know of recordings such as this one which J> feature Shepik? And secondly does anyone have any recommendations J> of his other work (aside from Pachora and Tiny Bell Trio)? -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 28 Aug 2000 02:40:38 EDT In a message dated 8/27/00 10:39:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Nudeants@aol.com writes: << I knew I forgot something! I'd but both of Meshuggah's on there, actually. Also, a band called Human Remains put out an EP called 'Using Sickness as a Hero' which is very good, though only 17 minutes long. >> Also check out Pan-Thy-Monium for some great Holdsworth-styled fretwork in a metal setting. I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too, but that CD is long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find. There's also a great CD out by the band Gordian Knot that features the monster guitarist from Watchtower- yet another great tech-metal outfit. Did I mention Spastic Ink...? -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: taj mahal travellers 1971 Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:58:45 CDT Has this release been discussed? TAJ MAHAL TRAVELLERS, THE Title: Live Stockholm July 1971 Label: DRONE SYNDICATE (SWEDEN) Format: 2CD I've heard great things about the 1974 concert on P-Vine, though the price tag creeps me out a bit. Is the 1971 recording anywhere near as good? Thanks much, ----s Sorry for cross postings. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: The sound of sun city girls Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:13:35 +0200 Hello, I noticed from mailing lists (DMG, Forced exposure, Other Music) that the "sun city girls" have a reissue of their albums. Now, can anybody on this list explain how these persons sound like? They seem to use the "normal" jazz instruments (upright bass, ...), but somehow I suspect that they don't play it the normal way, but play a more "out" jazz. Is this correct? Thanks for the help in advance, Best wishes, Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:09:00 +0200 Nudeants@aol.com said: > Dillinger Escape Plan - Under the Running Board > Napalm Death - most of 'em, except for the last couple - Fear, Emptiness, > Despair is the best Good recommendations, on the Napalm Death tip I'd like to add that the Peel Sessions are really worth tracking down. Early Earache stuff is good (Carcass, Bolt Thrower, etc.) And another Aquarius recommended record that I like a lot is Discordance Axis "The Inaliable Dreamless" (not sure about the title... it comes in a DVD box). But it's grindcore rather than blackmetal, though. -- Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" Subject: Re: The sound of sun city girls Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:15:12 +0200 IMHO they're completely screwed up players who play all kinds of stuff from dreadful straight country ballads to all-out shrieking noise. I never managed to pick up the right albums (ie the latter) but the Wire had a thorough analysis of their output what, two years back? If nobody comes up with the reference I may be able to dig it up Anyway, I guess I'd like some recommendations too. Stephane ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Montag, 28. August 2000 09:13 > I noticed from mailing lists (DMG, Forced exposure, Other Music) that the > "sun city girls" have a reissue of their albums. > > Now, can anybody on this list explain how these persons sound like? They > seem to use the "normal" jazz instruments (upright bass, ...), but somehow I > suspect that they don't play it the normal way, but play a more "out" jazz. > > Is this correct? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint Subject: Re: Sixun Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:30:49 +0200 malleable@post.com said: > I was reading an interview with Gary Willis recently, and in it, the > interviewer mentioned a band called Sixun. A search for them or their > records returned no responses. Anyone got some info for me? This is probably the best example of the terrible fusion plague that was rampant in France in the late 80's/early 90's... Sixun, Uzeb and their cohorts were the purveyors of some of the worst outrages against music ever committed. Since this trend was unexplicably popular at one point, it was really easy to come by their stuff... if your local record store has one of those 'jazz rock' bins you might be able to find them. I'd recommend listening to them at least once to get an idea of how bad it was. -- Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Unpopular Knitting Factory Date: 28 Aug 2000 08:29:28 GMT Hello, I recently asked for the John Lurie letter about the Knitting Factory and Marcin kindly sent it to me. I read it, thought it was very funny, but also thought it was some kind of joke. However, Marcin also told me that apparantly it was quite serious! Knitting Factory actually has become extremely unpopular among Zorn, Lurie and the rest of the people discussed on this list. So my question is, what happened!? Last I heard, everybody was very happy about Knitting Factory, saying it was such a good place for creative music and so forth. However, I don't live in New York and that was some years ago. Still I was very surprised to hear about thios change in attitudes. Could anybody give a bit more information on this topic? Or maybe this has already been discussed at great length around the time of the original posting? Maybe then somebody could direct me towards the time in the archives where I can find this discussion...? Confused thanks! ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: New Disc Up for Trade Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:59:17 +0200 (MET DST) A new disc by multi-instrumentalist Jyoji Sawada to trade: _Enfant Terrible_ (Sonore), produced by Aki Onda and featuring a number of eminent Japanese players, is based on a story by Sawada (some Japanese narration, children=B4s voices) about a world ruled by kids. Kind of a cross between Th= e Residents and a dystopian Noh play, with some craziness, some beauty, and an overall sensibility that should appeal to partisans of everything "downtown". I=B4m trying to fill some holes in my collection. Will trade for any of the below. Respond privately if interested. All the best, Stephen Dave Douglas, Magic Triangle Dave Douglas Quartet, Leap of Faith Dave Douglas Sextet, Soul on Soul Wayne Horvitz, 4 + 1 Ensemble Wayne Horvitz, American Bandstand =46reight Elevator Quartet, Becoming Transparent =46reight Elevator Quartet, Jungle Marc Ribot & Los Cubanos Postizos, Muy Divertido Junk Genius, Ghost of Electricity St. Germain, Tourist Carl Stone, Mom=B4s Paul D. Miller, Death in the Light of the Phonograph Him, Interpretive Belief System V/A, This is Home Entertainment 1 Jon Hassell, The Surgeon of the Nightsky Restores Dead Things By the Power of Sound Harold Budd, Luxa The White Arcade Lovely Thunder Gavin Bryars, Cadman=B4s Requiem We, deCentertainment Tied & Tickled Trio, S/T Kelly Hogan, Beneath the Country Underdog Ojima Yoshio & Satsuki Shibano, Caresse Ojima Yoshio & Satsuki Shibano, Music for Element Boomish, S/T DJ Logic, Project Logic Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden =46ax +46 90 14 33 74 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: re: music libraries Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:44:44 -0500 dear robert -- it's an interesting idea, your library, and an idea strikes me that would help you preserve the recordings and sidestep the home-taping concern. why not make it a non-lending library? i've seen cd store listening stations set up with headphones on one side of the counter and players on the other. a remote control attached to the counter would allow someone to skip tracks and whatnot, and if they were multi-disc players, people could sit there (in the nice, comfy chairs you'd provide) with a fair bit of control over what they want to hear. with this sort of control against home taping, i would think artists and labels would be more than happy to make recordings available, if only out of promotion they'd get. i also think you might be wise to try and hook up with some already established institution if you're going to do this. a special section of a public library or a university seems plausible. and libraries do have special collections and noncirculating materials, so it's not so far flung. i hope you live in new york so i can come by when you get it open. kg np: kahil el'zabar's ritual trio featuring pharoah sanders - africa n'da blues (although for your library i suggest 'alika rising' on sound aspects, if it's still in print) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: music libraries Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:58:38 EDT i know for a fact that Berklee College of Music in Boston has a music library. My best friend goes to school up there and he makes me incredibly jealous by the fact that he can go listen to pretty much anything he could ever want. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: music libraries Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:14:20 -0400 On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 09:58:38AM -0400, SOUPBEARD@aol.com wrote: > i know for a fact that Berklee College of Music in Boston has a music > library. My best friend goes to school up there and he makes me incredibly > jealous by the fact that he can go listen to pretty much anything he could > ever want. Twenty-mumble years ago, we had this at my college. It got so when I was on my shift in the AV room, people would come in and ask me to put on something they hadn't heard before that they'd like, for them to listen to on headphones. Sort of a 1 to 1 DJ. To do an in-store-listening only thing, I would maintain an MP3 jukebox (or, given infinite filespace, a WAV file jukebox) of the CDs, so multiple people could listen to the same tracks out of sync with one another. You might also have multi-person listening booths for group listening. (I've seen some nifty technology through which you can only hear music while standing under a plastic dome.) Definitely give it comfy chairs and coffee! -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 28 Aug 2000 08:04:09 -0700 Don Gunning wrote: > > The alphabet works just fine for me,about all I can handle. If I didn't > have things alphabetized, I'd never be able to find anything (still have > some problems sometimes). Same here, though I have a chunk of blues CDs separated out from the main body of the collection. (The Chess 50th anniversary releases.) A related question that's always amused my friends and me: Where do you all file your Fela records? F for Fela, or K for Kuti? Wm. Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Recent Goodies (long) Date: 28 Aug 2000 08:47:21 -0700 On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:19:47 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > Ah, birthday splurges! If only I could convince my wife on the utility > of semi-annual birthdays... And what about Saint Brian's day? In the catholic almanach, there is a Saint name for every day. Where not these celebrations specially designed for us, avid record collectors :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Your Imaginary Friend) Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 28 Aug 2000 11:05:30 -0600 >Don Gunning wrote: > >> >> The alphabet works just fine for me,about all I can handle. If I didn't >> have things alphabetized, I'd never be able to find anything (still have >> some problems sometimes). > >Same here, though I have a chunk of blues CDs separated out from the main >body of the collection. (The Chess 50th anniversary releases.) > >A related question that's always amused my friends and me: Where do you all >file your Fela records? F for Fela, or K for Kuti? > >Wm. Crump > > >- _________________________ Radio Free Norman 96.7 FM http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "robert ludington" Subject: Re: music libraries Date: 28 Aug 2000 16:04:19 GMT On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 09:58:38AM -0400, SOUPBEARD@aol.com wrote: >i know for a fact that Berklee College of Music in Boston has a music >library. My best friend goes to school up there and he makes me > >incredibly jealous by the fact that he can go listen to pretty much > >anything he could ever want. <> I definitly have considered listening stations, but not as the main objective of the place... but now I envision something like the jazz cafe's which Otomo Yoshihide describes in his one more recent Wire interview(with maybe a central PA that people could make requests, along with several listening stations)... maybe, to preserve the collection, but also to respect peoples integrity there could be a blance between loans & listening booths.. only lend out 2 albums per month, per person... I don't know, personally I've never liked the library's fine system, because many times I haven't returned something on time only because of how busy I was, or not in the area of that particular library, never ill-intentioned.. maybe to prevent people from borrowing & have it turn to theft there could be a rule of: If you haven't returned an item you cannot borrow anything else until that one item is returned, but there are no late fees...? It's hard to strike a balance between being fair to the individual & what's fair to the public at large.... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: glenn branca rec's requested Date: 28 Aug 2000 11:17:50 CDT I've heard much about his apparently cacophonous oeuvre, but I've never heard a note. What's everybody's opinion of his work, and what recordings---especially of the symphonies---would you recommend? Great advances in thanks, ----s _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Sixun Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:04:27 EDT In a message dated 8/28/00 3:31:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com writes: << This is probably the best example of the terrible fusion plague that was rampant in France in the late 80's/early 90's... Sixun, Uzeb and their cohorts were the purveyors of some of the worst outrages against music ever committed. Since this trend was unexplicably popular at one point, it was really easy to come by their stuff... if your local record store has one of those 'jazz rock' bins you might be able to find them. I'd recommend listening to them at least once to get an idea of how bad it was. >> I found an Uzeb live double CD (title?) in the used bins at my fave hip CD outlet a couple of years ago. While some of it was pretty capable jazz/rock fusion, most of it came off as Yellowjackets wannabes. Very weird to hear the same band burning it up one moment and then stinking it up the next. -- np: Out Of Focus- Not Too Late (recently released/previously unreleased 4th album by the legendary German jazz/rock outfit) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 28 Aug 2000 10:05:05 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dgasque@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:41 PM > I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too, > but that CD is > long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find. That one shows up on Ebay a lot, but be prepared to pay more than $20 or so. Man, now I have a long list of stuff to check out... More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the not-small matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks. Later, Ben np: scott walker, "it's raining today" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:08:35 -0700 > More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal > realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too > operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds > howling over the fjords is a little too much. I've a lot of friends that are into hardcore and such, so I've taken to some of the scre(a)mo stuff. Red Roses for a Blue Lady slay, they're the coolest combination of outofcontrolcore and emo intensity. Combatwoundedveteran are killer cantplaycore (self-described.) I sometimes have a hard time digesting too much black metal (it's the corpsepaint that really makes it difficult to take them seriously) but I'm more interested in the grind and hardcore manifestations. The new Napalm Death Peel Sessions are vital though. Cheers, Nirav -- OnNow- Mos Def- Black on Both Sides "Survival is not possible if one approaches his enviornment, the social drama, with a fixed, unchangeable point of view- the witless repetitive responce to the unpercieved."- Marshall McLuhan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linares Hugo Subject: RE: Brad Shepik (continued) Date: 28 Aug 2000 16:19:35 -0300 > It is trio "Tridruga" with Yuri Lemeshev on accordion and Tony Scherr > on bass balalaika and Brad on acoustic guitar. > > They are very mellow, romantic and beautiful. They are performed in > kind of sophisticated manner though. [Linares Hugo] Seconded. It's a pretty nice and interesting recording, highly recommended for accordion "suckers". I asked Tony Scherr if this project would go on and he said that it would depend on their different projects, though they were very happy with the results they got to. "Tridruga" was recorded in Scherr's house. Hugo Linares. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Sackville reissues Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Hi folks: The most recent CODA (September/October) announced that Sackville Records (its affiliate) is going to reissue nine avant garde sessions every two months over the next two years in limited editions of 1,000. Titles will include sessions by Julius Hemphill, Don Pullen, Roscoe Mitchell, Braxton etc. and a series subscription is available. Sackville is at: Box 1002, Stn. O, Toronto, Ont., M4A 2N4 Canada tel/fax: (416) 465-9093 I have no affiliation with the label, I'm just interested in good music. Ken Waxman _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: glenn branca rec's requested Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:37:28 -0400 For my record-buying dollar, Symphony No. 6 is essential. The third movement is perhaps the most, uh, Branca-esque, and is a great introduction to the kind of guitar thing he's often identified with. Feedbacky, thrashy, probably the kind of thing Cage would have called fascistic. The second movement is one of the most amazing sounds I've ever heard--I get chills every time I hear it. (Imagine something like 10 ebow-driven guitars s-l-o-w-l-y moving slides up their necks.) The first and fifth movements involve more picking and less chordal thrashing than usual, and I'm having a hard time remembering the fourth movement at the moment. I'm fond of the early _Ascension_ LP--much rougher and more rockish than some of the later stuff, although I'm not sure of the in-print status. I've enjoyed Symph 5--it's more subtle than some of the other stuff, but I'm at work and don't have my copy handy for a more in-depth comparison. I was disappointed by 8, which struck me as kind cartoony-Wagnerian. The opening's great, but it falls off from there significantly. 10 (on the same disc) was definitely better, but sort of picks a sound and stays on it, IIRC, and isn't as varied as the 5 and 6. As for the orchestral stuff, I haven't heard any. There are, IIRC, some sound samples out there on the unofficial fan site at http://www.tiac.net/users/blip/branca/branca.html but I haven't been there in a while. And there's an official site at http://www.glennbranca.com/ too. HTH, Maurice At 11:17 AM -0500 8/28/00, Kristopher S. Handley wrote: >I've heard much about his apparently cacophonous oeuvre, but I've >never heard a note. What's everybody's opinion of his work, and >what recordings---especially of the symphonies---would you recommend? > >Great advances in thanks, > >----s >_________________________________________________________________________ -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: glenn branca rec's requested Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:51:24 -0400 Apologies to anyone who received this twice; I'm not sure if it went out the first time. For my record-buying dollar, Symphony No. 6 is essential. The third movement is perhaps the most, uh, Branca-esque, and is a great introduction to the kind of guitar thing he's often identified with. Feedbacky, thrashy, probably the kind of thing Cage would have called fascistic. The second movement is one of the most amazing sounds I've ever heard--I get chills every time I hear it. (Imagine something like 10 ebow-driven guitars s-l-o-w-l-y moving slides up their necks.) The first and fifth movements involve more picking and less chordal thrashing than usual, and I'm having a hard time remembering the fourth movement at the moment. I'm fond of the early _Ascension_ LP--much rougher and more rockish than some of the later stuff, although I'm not sure of the in-print status. I've enjoyed Symph 5--it's more subtle than some of the other stuff, but I'm at work and don't have my copy handy for a more in-depth comparison. I was disappointed by 8, which struck me as kind cartoony-Wagnerian. The opening's great, but it falls off from there significantly. 10 (on the same disc) was definitely better, but sort of picks a sound and stays on it, IIRC, and isn't as varied as the 5 and 6. As for the orchestral stuff, I haven't heard any. There are, IIRC, some sound samples out there on the unofficial fan site at http://www.tiac.net/users/blip/branca/branca.html but I haven't been there in a while. And there's an official site at http://www.glennbranca.com/ too. HTH, Maurice At 11:17 AM -0500 8/28/00, Kristopher S. Handley wrote: >I've heard much about his apparently cacophonous oeuvre, but I've >never heard a note. What's everybody's opinion of his work, and >what recordings---especially of the symphonies---would you recommend? > >Great advances in thanks, > >----s >_________________________________________________________________________ -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: persepolis/dubravko detoni Date: 28 Aug 2000 16:07:13 EDT a couple of reissue notes: first of all, it seems as if a French label, Fractal, has reissued Xenakis' Persepolis, which I've never heard, but which is widely considered to be his major electroacoustic work. Ear/Rational has copies now (http://www.xmission.com/~ear/), and I'm guessing that other distributors who carry Fractal should get them shortly. also, not sure if I mentioned this here earlier this year, but Paradigm recently put out another superb reissue with the Dubravko Detoni early seventies compilation. think Dumitrescu with a dash of Nurse With Wound (Steven Stapleton helped with the packaging), and you're in the neighborhood. another gem unearthed by Clive Graham and Paradigm, following up the Brast Burn, Karuna Khyal, and Anal Magic troika of last year. as for the second Frizzell reissue, the first 20 minute piece is superb, but the rest doesn't hold up to that high standard, unfortunately. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: this message concerns Marsh Date: 28 Aug 2000 14:13:03 -0600 Hi Marsh, i recieved your message but haven't been able to answer. I keep recieving the following message: >The message failed to be delivered to (marsh@apexmail.com) because: >The requested mailbox doesn't exist... the message is from Apex mail and goes on to state other possible reasons for the difficulty. is the following address correct? marsh@apexmail.com Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Spaans Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 00:46:20 +0200 (CEST) Yep, you DEFINITELY should check out Focus (by Cynic) ! These guys really knew/know how to play their instruments. I've seen them perform a couple of times in Holland and their shows really really impressed me. They were one of the bands that have gotten me into jazz and experimental music. Their music, however, has definitely got some jazz influences but still has a firm Metal-foundation and will therefore not be appreciated by most jazz fans, I suppose ;-) But, check it out .... if you are able to get yourself copy ! Bye, Leon On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Benito Vergara wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dgasque@aol.com > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:41 PM > > > I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too, > > but that CD is > > long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find. > > That one shows up on Ebay a lot, but be prepared to pay more than $20 or so. > > Man, now I have a long list of stuff to check out... > > More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal > realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too > operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds > howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the not-small > matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks. > > Later, > Ben > > np: scott walker, "it's raining today" > > http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ > ICQ# 12832406 > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: listening libraries, filing systems Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:48:32 -0700 i lived in japan 1981-82 in fukuoka, a city of 1 miliion at the time. the japanese, at least then, were big on themed bars. there was one for knife enthusiasts, for instance. there were at least three in fukuoka that had their walls lined with jazz LPs -- each had thousands and thousands. you added your request to the end of list. a nice combination of listening and socializing with like minded folks. the collections, it turned out, generally exceeded the range of tastes of the patrons -- none of the barkeeps seemed too enthusiastic when i requested Interstellar Space.... maybe nowadays they have special bars for the outcats.... when we had this filing discussion last year, someone said they filed in the order they acquired the CDs. ... how about filing chronologically by recording date? or, for fun, by ensemble size (starting with solo, ending with Braxton's set for four orchestras), then chronological within that? martin np. misha mengelberg "solo" (warming up for ICP's first ever visit to Southern California, and my first chance to see any of these guys in person) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn Date: 28 Aug 2000 19:04:15 -0400 > > On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 10:43:23PM -0400, Peter Risser wrote: > > > Yeah, boy, I sure wish they'd bring THESE back to some cable channel or > > > other. > > > > They useta have them on BET on Jazz twice daily. I suspect they'll > > eventually return. Okay, let me rephrase. Yeah, boy, I sure wish they'd bring THESE back to some cable channel or other.... THAT I GET. Sigh. I'm stuck with the Time Warner monopoly, and, for example, even though TVLand the Game Show network are far and away the most requested new channels, they recently expanded with the Golf Network and like fifty more HBOs. Great. Just what I needed. Maybe someone could tape 'em and put 'em on the web or something. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: "Downtown" David Sanborn / Night Music Date: 28 Aug 2000 20:25:33 -0500 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/27/00 2:57:15 PM, olewnik@idt.net writes: > > << I don't know the album in question, but Sanborn's roots go back to St. > Louis. I think, where he played as a youth with members of that city's > Black Artist Group including Hemphill and Lester Bowie. When he hosted > that (very) late night music program on NBC (Night Music, right?), Zorn > appeared and Sanborn joined him for a tear through of a Zorn piece > (Roadrunner?). So, yeah, he has some perhaps unexpected roots. >> > > Sanborn also appears (and definitely holds his own) on Tim Berne's Hemphill > tribute CD, Diminutive Mysteries (mostly Hemphill) (JMT). He also played on at least one occasion at the Knit with Zorn and Berne's Spy Vs. Spy. And if memory serves, on Night Music Sanborn actually played with Zorn (Naked City's "Snagglepuss," with the rest of the bemused looking fusion chopsmen in the Night Music group - Hiram Bullock, Omar Hakim, Phillipe Saisse and a fill-in bassist subbing for Marcus Miller) and Berne ("Hong Kong Sad Song/More Coffee," with Herb Robertson, Marc Ribot, Hank Roberts, Mark Dresser and Joey Baron). Further memory search leads me to think that the latter episode ending with John Cale, Richard Thompson and Shawn Colvin trading verses on Cale's dolorous version of "Heartbreak Hotel" with BJ Cole on pedal steel and Berne and Sanborn tooting on alto and soprano respectively. Best Night Music memory of all, however, would have to be Todd Rundgren, Ellen Foley and Taj Mahal performing a scene from 'HMS Pinafore,' with Sanborn, Pat Metheny, Christian Marclay (!!!) and the Night Music band all dressed as sailors behind them... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (catching up on e-mail after a long weekend away...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rob.allaert@charity.nu Subject: Brad Shepik -Tridruga Date: 27 Aug 2000 11:01:14 +0200 Brad Shepik's Tridruga is on www.lvslv.com (loveslave). Also try "The Well" with Epstein, Sverrison (Pachora) and Sarin. Turkish and very nice. _ Rob ......<..... || rob@charity.nu http://www.frontstage.com/rob "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing". - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 28 Aug 2000 18:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Good recommendations, on the Napalm Death tip I'd like to add that the Peel Sessions are really worth tracking down. Early Earache stuff is good (Carcass, Bolt Thrower, etc.) ------------- I second that!!!! Actually, the Peel Sessions have been re-issued about a month ago, and the CD includes 4 sessions now, so that's quite essential. The other day I discovered this page, featuring reviews for the entire Earache catalog: http://www.lamcat.demon.co.uk A nice independent label... that's just about gone to hell. np: Lawnmower Deth/Kids in America A __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: music libraries Date: 28 Aug 2000 21:59:06 EDT Berklee College of Music has a great music library that matches the description implied. It is called The Media Center. The whole Media Center consists of a pretty good book library, a computer center for sequencing and other computer needs, a lounge called The Stan Getz Lounge because it displays his tenor sax, an Internet room, and various other stuff. They have a request list that gets granted most of the time. It is open to the public with a library or college ID card. They have about 50 CD players with headphones and about 30 television screens with VCRs, laserdiscs, and soon DVD players. The catalogue is enormous (and it should be after paying the enormous tuition) and the months top 100 CDs in the billboard charts are donated to Berklee from the Newbury Comics shop. No one is allowed to remove anything from the Media Center (and no coffee either, though I still sneak some in). I know many people who have snuck CDs and videos out, burned or taped them and returned them, this kind of thing is always bond to happen. The catalogue is easily searchable through their new Macintosh computers. I think the catalogue is even on the Berklee web site. It is a great thing, you can spend a whole Sunday in there. And yes, they have a pretty fair amount of avant stuff. So if you live anywhere near Boston come check it out. Bugs and Hugs, Marcus - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 28 Aug 2000 22:00:14 -0400 > Good recommendations, on the Napalm Death tip I'd like to add that > the > Peel > Sessions are really worth tracking down. Early Earache stuff is good > (Carcass, > Bolt Thrower, etc.) > ------------- > I second that!!!! Actually, the Peel Sessions have been re-issued > about a month ago, and the CD includes 4 sessions now, so that's > quite essential. Plus, I don't know about yours, but *my* Peel Sessions CD has glow in the dark ink for the printing on the CD. Cool! (Makes a GREAT answering machine message, BTW) Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gabriel Lichtmann" Subject: Honorio Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:21:53 -0300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C01146.C015A200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Acabo de terminar de ver Televisi=F3n Registrada y descubr=ED algo = incre=EDble: =A1Honorio no es otro que Luis Fernandez!. Por si nunca = vieron el programejo, Honorio es un personaje petiso gordo y de anteojos = que acompa=F1a a Tino y Gargamuza, pero es lo opuesto, si ellos son = c=EDnicos y cr=EDticos el es benevolente y se expresa con un lenguaje = rimbobante. Igual que nuestro Luis. Veanlo, van a ver que tengo raz=F3n. LA LICHUZA ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C01146.C015A200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Acabo de terminar de ver = Televisi=F3n Registrada y=20 descubr=ED algo incre=EDble: =A1Honorio no es otro que Luis Fernandez!. = Por si nunca=20 vieron el programejo, Honorio es un personaje petiso gordo y de anteojos = que=20 acompa=F1a a Tino y Gargamuza, pero es lo opuesto, si ellos son = c=EDnicos y cr=EDticos=20 el es benevolente y se expresa con un lenguaje rimbobante. Igual = que=20 nuestro Luis.
   Veanlo, van a ver que = tengo=20 raz=F3n.
 
LA = LICHUZA
 
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C01146.C015A200-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: metal Date: 29 Aug 2000 02:37:15 GMT >More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal >realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too >operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds >howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the >not->small matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks. Yeah, no kidding, on both of those counts. I am not a big black metal fan although there are some bands who are kind of near that that I like such as Opeth or At the Gates. Some (more "experimental") metal bands that I like are: Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (chaotic, incredibly complex, with weirdo fusion-y overtones and very abrasive vocals) ...and if you line them, Coalesce, Candiria, Cave-In (all of whom actually come from a "Hardcore" perspective but like Dillinger don't go for any stylistic trappings of that genre ... well, besides screaming alot) as well as Human Remains and Strapping young Lad, both of whom others mentioned, are worth listening to. Soilent Green - super-heavy, swampy New Orleans metal, incredibly twisted songs with lots of parts (some fast, some slow, all pretty loud), not really "death metal" or "grindcore" or anything specific. Pretty unique I think. There's another related band, Eyehategod, who shares on of their guitar players. That stuff isn't as far out musically, basically really slow, painful kind of southern/Black Sabbath/Melvins sludge. Another really good New Orleans band was Acid Bath who were kind of like Soilent Green, only less complex/heavy and with more of a rock feel and lots of cleanly sung, almost Jim Morrison-type vocals. Then Death Metal - I have to say I like Morbid Angel, whatever their personal beliefs are (and there are plenty of bands who are worse). Part of me laughs when I listen to this stuff, but then again, it's pretty amazing and really well written. Somebody else mentioned Cryptopsy, they're pretty amazing too, more technical and out there but not as much as Gorguts' Obscura CD, which is totally krazy. Actually I don't personally like that as much although it is interesting. For something with a sense of humor, there's a band called Carnival in Coal, actually a French duo who are kind of like Mr. Bungle + death metal + '80s dance pop. It is really sick, stupid and over the top sometimes (not gory-sick or anything, just sarcastic) and they use a drum machine (at least know how to program it) but they know what they are doing. The one which is relatively easier to find, _French Cancan_, has great back-to-back covers of Gerry Rafferty's "Baker STreet" and Morbid Angel's "Fall from Grace." If you like Mr. Bungle/Patton, estradasphere and/or Zappa as well as metal, this may be worth listening to. But if you are coming from a Zorn/Naked City point of view, the closest at first is probably Napalm Death (The Peel Session, Scum, From Enslavement...), then other grind stuff like Brutal Truth or, more recently, Discordance Axis. Basically, it's more "angry," less "evil." And that is really far away, at least to me, from the majestic black metal stuff that aquarius talks about a lot, though they do mention other stuff. Anyway, sorry if this is off topic, _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com Subject: Re: metal Date: 28 Aug 2000 22:51:29 EDT the only metal that i can bare to listen to anymore is megadeth. however, i only really like the music from the late 80's and early 90's (rust in peace, countdown to extinction, and youthanasia). the rhythm is phenominal on all the albums with rust in peace being the epitome of thrash metal. dave mustaine developed such an incredible guitar playing style which peaked on youthanasia...makes me wonder what happened. so any fan of "rock music" that likes unique rhythm should definitely check out those albums....youthanasia being the best of the 3. dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: "Downtown" David Sanborn / Night Music Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:06:35 EDT In a message dated 8/28/00 8:37:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << Best Night Music memory of all, however, would have to be Todd Rundgren, Ellen Foley and Taj Mahal performing a scene from 'HMS Pinafore,' with Sanborn, Pat Metheny, Christian Marclay (!!!) and the Night Music band all dressed as sailors behind them... >> holy shit..... -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brad Syna Subject: great night music memories Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:58:25 -0400 As I recall as Night music moved into it's 2nd season and they got rid of Jools Holland and made Sanborn the only host, they would have all the guests play separately and then start combining them into interesting combos at the end of the show. I remember a great one with Indigo Girls and Sonic Youth, SY did a rocking Iggy Pop's Now I Want to Be Your Dog with Sanborn wailing on sax. My two favorites had to be Conway Twitty with backing vocalists The Residents and Bongwater joined by Bob Weir ( boy did he look like he was enjoying the match ) and Rob Wasserman along with ( I can't recall his name now ( the voodoo bluesman that use to have the snake around his neck and light all the flashpaper ) performing a Roky Ericson tune. It's still my favorite music show to date, it was booked by Hal ( forgetting last name ( my memory is fading!!! )) and produced by Lorne Michaels. If they ever show them again catch them they are a treat!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: ICP, Shepik Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:55:40 EDT In a message dated 8/28/00 3:57:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com writes: << np. misha mengelberg "solo" (warming up for ICP's first ever visit to Southern California, and my first chance to see any of these guys in person) >> Where are they playing down there? KF? I'm going to see them in Oakland(Mills) in a couple of weeks. Misha and Han played here last year and Clusone many years ago. Its a miracle that they're coming here at all. This will be the 1st time for many of the musicians. Usually you can't even get a trio to come into town. Lately there's been Willem Breuker Kollektief, Peter Brotzmann's 12tet, Pierre Dorge's New Jungle Orchestra,and lastly ICP. Keep 'em coming. Regarding a previous Shepik thread, don't forget the band Babkas, who I suppose is now defunct. They put out 3 phenominal cds on Songlines, with Briggan Krauss-sax and Aaron Alexander-drums. One minute it'll be quiet and nimble, the next blistering and searing. I'm still waiting for Briggan to sound this good again. This is Shepik at his most aggressive and inventive with no ethnic influences this time. I would rate the first,s/t, as the best but they're all really good. John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 00:03:42 -0400 Also, when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong). Also PESTILENCE's last album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive. Neil H. Enet ------------ -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans Sent: Lunes, 28 de Agosto de 2000 06:46 p.m. Cc: Zorn List Yep, you DEFINITELY should check out Focus (by Cynic) ! These guys really knew/know how to play their instruments. I've seen them perform a couple of times in Holland and their shows really really impressed me. They were one of the bands that have gotten me into jazz and experimental music. Their music, however, has definitely got some jazz influences but still has a firm Metal-foundation and will therefore not be appreciated by most jazz fans, I suppose ;-) But, check it out .... if you are able to get yourself copy ! Bye, Leon On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Benito Vergara wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dgasque@aol.com > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:41 PM > > > I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too, > > but that CD is > > long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find. > > That one shows up on Ebay a lot, but be prepared to pay more than $20 or so. > > Man, now I have a long list of stuff to check out... > > More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal > realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too > operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds > howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the not-small > matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks. > > Later, > Ben > > np: scott walker, "it's raining today" > > http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ > ICQ# 12832406 > > > - > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gabe wingfield" Subject: Re: Karuna Khyal (was: persepolis/dubravko detoni) Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:17:16 -0500 > another gem unearthed by Clive Graham and Paradigm, following up the Brast > Burn, Karuna Khyal, and Anal Magic troika of last year. anyone have any info about this band aside from the forced exposure blurb and the review on motion 51? it would be greatly appreciated. gabe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: ICP, Shepik Date: 29 Aug 2000 10:13:58 -0700 >>>Where are they playing down there? KF?<<< Yes, KF. And Han is playing solo at City Hall in Ventura as part of our ongoing pfMENTUM new music series. As we say in Southern California.......what a bitchin' coup, dudes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: FS: Miles Davis + others (non-Zorn) Date: 29 Aug 2000 01:47:29 -0400 I have the following items for sale that some on this list may be interested in. All prices _US $_. POSTAGE PAID within North America. Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged. If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER. $20 -- Christoph Heemann - "Invisible Barrier" US CD (Extreme: xcd019) = 1993 [Excellent Heemann release on Extreme. His first major solo out= ing (after the Robot 10") recorded in 1992. Long out of print.] $15 -- Cop Shoot Cop - "Consumer Revolt" UK CD (Big Cat) 1992 $15 -- Miles Davis - "On The Corner" JAP CD (Sony Japan: srcs9125) 1998 [Japanese 1998 "Master Sound" series reissue (SBM) of 1972 class= ic in gatefold mini-LP sleeve w/ insert. Mint.] $20 -- Paul Sch=FCtze - "New Maps Of Hell" US CD (Extreme: xcd015) 1992 [First pressing on Extreme w/ original artwork. Feat. "A Soul Reports" not on the 1996 UK reissue. Long out of print.] $20 -- Sigillum S - "Helix Parasites" ITA CD (Minus Habens: mhcd013) 19= 93 [Eraldo Bernocchi, Paolo Bandera & Luca Di Giorgio.] more at: [ http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/muse.html ] Thanks for looking. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Case" Subject: Re: Metal...Yngwie Malmsteen...Neo Classical Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:20:20 +0950 Hi all, On the matter of metal, has anyone here got any thisng to say about Yngwie Malmsteen? I really like his earlier works with the very guitar orientated pieces. Has anyone heard the fairly recent classical sympony for elctric guitar that he released? Case NP Morrissey:Bona Drag - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcin.Witkowski@ccmail.eu.sony.co.jp (Marcin Witkowski) Subject: Secret Chiefs 3 [no Zorn content] Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:40:21 +0100 Dear all Mimicry rereleased First and Second Grand... by Secret Chiefs 3. They are remastered and bonus tracks are added. I've already got them from Amarillo. Does somebody know if they are worth buying again? How many/long are bonus tracks? Can I really hear "remastering"? Awaiting for your comments Marcin Witkowski - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: great night music memories Date: 29 Aug 2000 10:55:32 +0200 (MET DST) >they >would have all the guests play separately and then start >combining them into interesting combos at the end of the show. Another time: Leonard Cohen backed up by his own trio of girl singers plus the vocalists from Was/Not Was with Sonny Rollins on sax. Dreamy. All the best, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden =46ax +46 90 14 33 74 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 12:46:01 GMT+0100 Hi there, > Also, > > when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember > having > ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", > which people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist > Tony Choy (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong). Yeah, Atheist's 'Unquestionable Presence' is one of the most interesting 'intelligent metal (?)' albums i've ever heard. I don't like 'Elements' much though. Maybe this is due to the fact they lost their incredible drummer. He can be heard on their debut album though, titled 'Pieces'. This one's more in the vein of 'Unquestionable Presence': a superb mix of deathmetal and jazz. When tey tied to include tribal rhythms as well on 'Elements' it all became too sterile. Also > PESTILENCE's last album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive. Yes it was, but I think they were only trying to sound like Cynic, but weren't capable of really playing it. > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > Yep, you DEFINITELY should check out Focus (by Cynic) ! These guys > really knew/know how to play their instruments. I've seen them perform > a couple of times in Holland and their shows really really impressed > me. Do I know you? I also a couple of their shows in Holland a few years ago (Enschede and DOA). Cynic has to be heard by anyone who is interested in experimental metal. These guys are unbelievable: coming from a jazz background (Berklee et al.) but with a definite love for extreme metal they are, up to now, the only band that could mix jazz and metal in a way you should think it only could be this way. Drummer Sean Reinert (I raved about him before on this list) plays jazz with his hands, while playing incredible doublebass patterns with his feet. Anyone who has heard Death's 'Human' knows what this is like. Guitar players Hason Gobel and Paul Masdival (also on 'Human') have a definite interest in the playing of Allan Holdswort, but anyone familiar with Meshuggah knows this can be a perfect couple with metal. Bass and stick player Sean Malone adds a Pastorius like flaovour to the music, but is also a very fine composer in his own right. Check out his 'Gordian Knot' albums, which also feature Reinert. They broke up a couple of years ago, but seem to back now with a band called 'Aghora'. I ordered their cd a week ago, so it should arrive fairly soon. According to the reviews I read this is the music of Cynic with more jazz and a female singer instead of a male grunter. They were one of the bands that have gotten me into jazz and > experimental music. Their music, however, has definitely got some jazz > influences but still has a firm Metal-foundation and will therefore > not be appreciated by most jazz fans, I suppose ;-) But, check it out > .... if you are able to get yourself copy ! Some other bands that can be of interest of intelligent metal lovers are Confessor, Watchtower, Sieges Even, and of course Dillinger Escape Plan. Jeroen Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 13:20:00 +0200 -----Original Message----- Hi there, Anyone who has heard Death's 'Human' knows what this is like. (stefan) this reminds me of something. Chuck is indeed one of THE BEST death metal guitar players in this scene. But I read somewhere that he was trying to recover from cancer. Did he? Because a bootleg label recently compiled a 4cd box with all sort of live material, called "R.I.P. Chuck". Is this a sick joke or did Chuck really die? Anyone knows this? Best wishes Stefan (thinking about the days when he kicked on Deicide & Morbid Angel.... those were the Satan days....) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 13:22:39 GMT+0100 > (stefan) this reminds me of something. Chuck is indeed one of THE BEST > death metal guitar players in this scene. But I read somewhere that he > was trying to recover from cancer. > Is this a sick joke or did Chuck really die? No, he actually recovered from brain cancer a few months ago and is already working on the second 'Control Denied' album, his true metal band. Nice to know is that a lot of his fans sent money to the Chuck Chuldiner family to pay for the huge medical bills. The first upcoming Death-album will be a live-cd. I hope it also contains material of the 'Human'-era... Jeroen Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 08:18:00 EDT In a message dated 8/29/00 12:03:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nilugo@usa.net writes: << when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong). Also PESTILENCE's last album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive. >> Yes, I used to listen to all these bands. I remember, about 7 years ago, when I was just getting into this stuff, I had a friend who listened to virtually ONLY metal, and had a HUGE collection, so I got to hear everything I wanted. I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player, though. I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now plays in Sadus?)? -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 08:29:49 EDT In a message dated 8/29/00 8:19:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Nudeants@aol.com writes: << I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player, though. I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now plays in Sadus?)? >> Oh I just read Jeroen's post and realized that I'm talking about a different guy. Sean Malone was the Cynic bass player (who was not in Atheist). -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 14:37:07 GMT+0100 > I don't remember Atheist and Cynic > sharing a bass player, though. I thought maybe that the Cynic bass > player used to play in Death (and now plays in Sadus?)? > > -matt mitchell Cynic and Atheist did share bassplayer Tony Choy, but he never officially recorded with Cynic. He's only on a few of their demo's. After he left Cynic he joined Atheist with whom he recorded 'Unquestionable Presence' and 'Elements'. Steve DiGiorgio, bassplayer of Sadus, played on Death's 'Human', together with Sean Reinert, Paul Masdival and Jason Gobel of Cynic. He also contributed to 'Unquestionable Presence'. Furthermore he's also playing bass in Chuck Chuldiners 'Control Denied' project. He never played with Cynic. Jeroen ps. Matt, I just read your post and Sean Malone indeed didn't play with Atheist. Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gabriel Lichtmann" Subject: Sorry Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:45:57 -0300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0119D.EE8057A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I mistakenly sent a private message titled "Honorio" to the Zorn List. = Sorry for the spamming. Yours always LA LICHUZA ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0119D.EE8057A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I mistakenly sent a private message = titled=20 "Honorio" to the Zorn List. Sorry for the spamming.
Yours always
 
LA=20 LICHUZA
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0119D.EE8057A0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Spaans Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 14:44:56 +0200 (CEST) Atheist was pretty amazing as well. I unfortunately never got the chance to see them live :-( Tony Choy played on the Pestilence album before Spheres ... called Testimony of the Ancients. I'm not sure whether Tony played in Cynic, however they thank him in the CD-booklet ... Bye, Leon On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Neil H. Enet wrote: > Also, > > when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having > ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which > people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy > (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong). Also PESTILENCE's last > album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive. > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans > Sent: Lunes, 28 de Agosto de 2000 06:46 p.m. > To: Benito Vergara > Cc: Zorn List > Subject: RE: metal: black etc > > > Yep, you DEFINITELY should check out Focus (by Cynic) ! These guys really > knew/know how to play their instruments. I've seen them perform a couple > of times in Holland and their shows really really impressed me. > They were one of the bands that have gotten me into jazz and experimental > music. Their music, however, has definitely got some jazz influences but > still has a firm Metal-foundation and will therefore not be appreciated > by most jazz fans, I suppose ;-) But, check it out .... if you are able > to get yourself copy ! > > Bye, > > Leon > > On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Benito Vergara wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > > > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dgasque@aol.com > > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:41 PM > > > > > I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too, > > > but that CD is > > > long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find. > > > > That one shows up on Ebay a lot, but be prepared to pay more than $20 or > so. > > > > Man, now I have a long list of stuff to check out... > > > > More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal > > realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too > > operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds > > howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the > not-small > > matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks. > > > > Later, > > Ben > > > > np: scott walker, "it's raining today" > > > > http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ > > ICQ# 12832406 > > > > > > - > > > > > > > - > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: ICP, Shepik Date: 29 Aug 2000 08:59:27 -0500 Fastian@aol.com wrote: > Usually you can't even get a > trio to come into town. Lately there's been Willem Breuker Kollektief, > Peter Brotzmann's 12tet, Pierre Dorge's New Jungle Orchestra,and lastly ICP. I think this is mostly due to a spate of enlightened underwriting. I know that the Dorge visit is sponsored in part by the Danish government, and I think the Dutch goverment gets involved to a degree with the likes of Breuker and Mengelberg. The Brotzmann 12tet tour was underwritten by Vandermark's MacArthur "genius grant," in order to prepare for the recording they did during and after the tour. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Spaans Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:21:05 +0200 (CEST) Ehm, not totally true, I think. Steve DiGiorgo played with Death on the 'Human' and 'Individual Thought Patterns' albums, but Death was always something of a 'project-band', because the only person who played on all their records is Chuck himself. Steve's own band was Sadus. But I'm not sure whether Steve ever played in Cynic ... Bye, Leon On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/29/00 12:03:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nilugo@usa.net > writes: > > << when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having > ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which > people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy > (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong). Also PESTILENCE's last > album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive. > >> > > Yes, I used to listen to all these bands. I remember, about 7 years ago, > when I was just getting into this stuff, I had a friend who listened to > virtually ONLY metal, and had a HUGE collection, so I got to hear everything > I wanted. I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player, though. > I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now > plays in Sadus?)? > > -matt mitchell > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: great night music memories / Willner Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:42:31 -0500 Brad Syna wrote: > I remember a great one with Indigo Girls and Sonic Youth, SY > did a rocking Iggy Pop's Now I Want to Be Your Dog with Sanborn > wailing on sax. Yeah, and Sanborn introduced it as a medley of two great American folk tunes - just before SY took the stage, a little trad folk combo with the Indigo Girls played "Red River Valley." > My two favorites had to be Conway Twitty with backing vocalists > The Residents God, yes, forgot about that... > and Bongwater joined by Bob Weir ( boy did he look > like he was enjoying the match ) and Rob Wasserman along with > ( I can't recall his name now ( the voodoo bluesman that use > to have the snake around his neck and light all the flashpaper ) > performing a Roky Ericson tune. Screamin' Jay Hawkins. Here's another... Carla Bley, Steve Swallow and Karen Mantler backing Bootsy Collins... and although much more mainstream, Sting backed by Frisell and Fareed Haque on "Ain't No Sunshine" was awfully pretty. Oh, and I forgot a detail on the John Cale performance I mentioned yesterday. Cajun accordion player Jo-El Sonnier was also a part of that performance. Likewise, on the Tim Berne performance (same episode), Hank Roberts was not involved and the guitar player was not Marc Ribot but Allan Jaffe. (Yes, I pulled out a tape.) I must have been remembering Hank from a Frisell quartet performance on the abovementioned episode with Sting... Lest anyone think that the show was all avant-gardists, it bears mention that there were generally headliners who, while not strictly mainstream, carried more marquee value to lure in the unsuspecting - Sting is a good example, but I remember Al Green, Aaron Neville, Lou Reed, Philip Bailey and plenty of others. There were also numerous world music artists back before that was hip, including Papa Wemba, Anabouboula and Ivo Papasov. But what really pushed the envelope was the all-inclusive performances at the end. > It's still my favorite music show to date, it was booked by Hal > ( forgetting last name ( my memory is fading!!! )) Willner... same guy who did all those great tribute albums that exposed a generation to Zorn, Sharp et al - 'Amercord Nino Rota' (Rota, obviously, on Hannibal), 'That's the Way I Feel Now' (Monk, A&M), 'Lost in the Stars' (Weill, A&M - he did another Weill tribute on Columbia later but this one's better), 'Stay Awake' (Walt Disney music, A&M - featuring great interludes by Frisell, Horvitz & Ken Nordine) and 'Weird Nightmare' (Mingus, Columbia). Willner used to be music director for Saturday Night Live, thus the connection to Lorne Michaels. Willner's most recent recording project, if I remember correctly, was a 2CD set of Edgar Allan Poe poems and short stories, 'Closed on Account of Rabies,' on the Mouth Almighty label, 1997. It featured readings by Marianne Faithfull, Christopher Walken, Iggy Pop, Jeff Buckley, Diamanda Galas and others, with some tracks featuring sampling and sound effects supplied by Willner, others featuring music by Wayne Kramer, Steven Bernstein, Chris Spedding, Marc Ribot & Dr. John, and the Jazz Passengers with Debbie Harry. And within the last two years here in New York, Willner mounted a couple of live concerts in tribute to the Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk Music... > If they ever show them again catch them they are > a treat!!! Agreed. The show was never seen in any quasi-primetime slot in Houston, but they used to show them every night at 3 a.m. for a while there - I taped them on autopilot a week at a time and settled in for a while on the weekends... but those tapes are in pretty tragic condition now, so I'd love to see some sort of video series issued on DVD preferably. One can dream... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:50:05 -0400 Yes, that's right, I don't think Steve DiGiorgio ever played with Cynic. He was an excellent bassist, I remember him in the Vision of Misery album (SADUS) playing a fretless bass, he was extremeley fast. I never heard ATHEIST's first album (I think it was called Piece of Time, or something like that) but I remember people talking about original bassist Roger Paterson (?), that died before recording the second album (Unquestionable Presence) and so they brought in Tony Choy. Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist. He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it. Anyone know any informaton on this? Neil H. Enet ------------ PS: Oh, in my metal days I used to listen to a lot of PUNGENT STENCH ... they're not technical or progressive or anything, but they were a very fun band. Anyone know what happened to them? -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans Sent: Martes, 29 de Agosto de 2000 09:21 a.m. Cc: nilugo@usa.net; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Ehm, not totally true, I think. Steve DiGiorgo played with Death on the 'Human' and 'Individual Thought Patterns' albums, but Death was always something of a 'project-band', because the only person who played on all their records is Chuck himself. Steve's own band was Sadus. But I'm not sure whether Steve ever played in Cynic ... Bye, Leon On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/29/00 12:03:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nilugo@usa.net > writes: > > << when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having > ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which > people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy > (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong). Also PESTILENCE's last > album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive. > >> > > Yes, I used to listen to all these bands. I remember, about 7 years ago, > when I was just getting into this stuff, I had a friend who listened to > virtually ONLY metal, and had a HUGE collection, so I got to hear everything > I wanted. I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player, though. > I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now > plays in Sadus?)? > > -matt mitchell > > - > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: great night music memories Date: 29 Aug 2000 18:50:16 -0700 >>>Another time: Leonard Cohen backed up by his own trio of girl singers plus the vocalists from Was/Not Was with Sonny Rollins on sax. Dreamy. All the best, Stephen<<< Yes. Rollins' imrovisation on that song, 'Who By Fire', evoked a tune ending bow of reverential gratitude from Cohen. Also the only time this West Coaster has ever been able to see Herb Robertson play. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: "Downtown" David Sanborn / Night Music Date: 29 Aug 2000 08:53:28 -0500 That was really beautiful, but I think I like Conway Twitty singing "It's Only Make Believe" with the Residents dancing behind him in eyeballs a little more. Ralph At 08:25 PM 8/28/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: >Best Night Music memory of all, however, would have to be Todd Rundgren, Ellen >Foley and Taj Mahal performing a scene from 'HMS Pinafore,' with Sanborn, Pat >Metheny, Christian Marclay (!!!) and the Night Music band all dressed as >sailors behind them... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:04:31 +0200 Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist. He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it. Anyone know any informaton on this? (stefan)He made two albums (at least that are the ones I owne and am aware of) that were published in Europe on the Roadrunner label. The style on these albums? Like some of the bands that are mentioned here: "technical death metal". The first one (don't have the titles here with me) however is "typical" death metal.... you know, death-grunt style of singing. The second one is in IMHO more balenced: the voice-style is more accessible (at least you can understand what he is singing) and the guitar-lines are more well-thought (catchy, more melody than just riffs,...). Both albums still end in my cd player regularly... Best wishes, Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Re: metal Date: 29 Aug 2000 10:05:42 -0400 And talking about metal. My local used CD shop has OLD's LE FLUX TUBE with Mr. Zorn on "turbo sax on the title song" (I think). Anyone got any opinions on this album? Thanks in advance Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Metal...Yngwie Malmsteen...Neo Classical Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:55:00 +0200 Case wrote: > On the matter of metal, has anyone here got any thisng to say about Yngwie > Malmsteen? I really like his earlier works with the very guitar orientated pieces. > Has anyone heard the fairly recent classical sympony for elctric guitar that > he released? If a was to say anything about him i'd call him "the shit creator". The worst musician on the planet IMHO. Kind of Ritchie Blackmore's inefficient clone. And for those who think he's exceptionally fast, I suggest them considering Nigel Mansell. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Re: Metal...Yngwie Malmsteen...Neo Classical Date: 29 Aug 2000 23:49:43 +0930 Are my ears really that misguided? I admit his shredding is waring a bit thin, thats why I asked about the new Symphony piece. Maybe I just love vikings, I hope I once was a viking.... Case > If a was to say anything about him i'd call him "the shit creator". The > worst musician on the planet IMHO. Kind of Ritchie Blackmore's inefficient > clone. And for those who think he's exceptionally fast, I suggest them > considering Nigel Mansell. > > Marcin Gokieli - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Spaans Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:59:27 +0200 (CEST) Disincarnate (Dreams of the Carrion Kind) is a very very good album, If you are into Death you could buy it without listening !!! And James Murphy is an extremely talented guitar player ... but hey, that's my opinion ;-) Wasn't this list about Zorn ? Bye, Leon ps. Disincarnate - Dreams of the Carrion Kind (Roadrunner: RR9102-2 1993, Bryan Cegon - Vocals, James Murphy - Lead, Rhythm and Acoustic Guitar, Jason Carman - Rhythm Guitar, Tommy Viator - Drums). On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Neil H. Enet wrote: > Yes, that's right, I don't think Steve DiGiorgio ever played with Cynic. > He was an excellent bassist, I remember him in the Vision of Misery album > (SADUS) playing a fretless bass, he was extremeley fast. > > I never heard ATHEIST's first album (I think it was called Piece of Time, > or something like that) but I remember people talking about original > bassist Roger Paterson (?), that died before recording the second album > (Unquestionable Presence) and so they brought in Tony Choy. > > Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL > HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist. > He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it. > Anyone know any informaton on this? > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > > PS: Oh, in my metal days I used to listen to a lot of PUNGENT STENCH ... > they're not technical or progressive or anything, but they were a very fun > band. Anyone know what happened to them? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans > Sent: Martes, 29 de Agosto de 2000 09:21 a.m. > To: Nudeants@aol.com > Cc: nilugo@usa.net; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: metal: black etc > > > Ehm, not totally true, I think. Steve DiGiorgo played with Death on > the 'Human' and 'Individual Thought Patterns' albums, but Death was always > something of a 'project-band', because the only person who played on all > their records is Chuck himself. Steve's own band was Sadus. But I'm not > sure whether Steve ever played in Cynic ... > > Bye, Leon > > On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 8/29/00 12:03:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > nilugo@usa.net > > writes: > > > > << when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember > having > > ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which > > people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy > > (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong). Also PESTILENCE's last > > album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive. > > >> > > > > Yes, I used to listen to all these bands. I remember, about 7 years ago, > > when I was just getting into this stuff, I had a friend who listened to > > virtually ONLY metal, and had a HUGE collection, so I got to hear > everything > > I wanted. I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player, > though. > > I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now > > plays in Sadus?)? > > > > -matt mitchell > > > > - > > > > > > > - > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Krefting" Subject: lists Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:08:30 GMT hi all i was a dumb man and deleted the link to that "list of lists" (w/ the avant garde list included). could someone kindly repost? thanks a bunch... matt _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:40:12 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:59 AM > Wasn't this list about Zorn ? Ah, but as we've seen time and again, Zorn transcends all genres. =) Plus you have Zorn's connections to metal/hardcore, so... On that note, is there any sort of mailing list on all the folks we've discussed so far? I've looked at a few lists and newsgroups, but the level of discussion is quite sophomoric. And all the racism and homophobia is quite appalling (check out alt.music.black-metal for that stuff). Thanks in advance, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: great night music memories / Willner Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:11:58 +0200 >Willner... same guy who did all those great tribute albums that exposed >a generation to Zorn, Sharp et al - 'Amercord Nino Rota' (Rota, >obviously, on Hannibal), 'That's the Way I Feel Now' (Monk, A&M), 'Lost >in the Stars' (Weill, A&M - he did another Weill tribute on Columbia >later but this one's better), 'Stay Awake' (Walt Disney music, A&M - >featuring great interludes by Frisell, Horvitz & Ken Nordine) and 'Weird >Nightmare' (Mingus, Columbia). Willner used to be music director for >Saturday Night Live, thus the connection to Lorne Michaels. > >Willner's most recent recording project, if I remember correctly, was a >2CD set of Edgar Allan Poe poems and short stories, 'Closed on Account >of Rabies,' on the Mouth Almighty label, 1997. It featured readings by >Marianne Faithfull, Christopher Walken, Iggy Pop, Jeff Buckley, Diamanda >Galas and others, with some tracks featuring sampling and sound effects >supplied by Willner, others featuring music by Wayne Kramer, Steven >Bernstein, Chris Spedding, Marc Ribot & Dr. John, and the Jazz >Passengers with Debbie Harry. > >And within the last two years here in New York, Willner mounted a couple >of live concerts in tribute to the Harry Smith Anthology of American >Folk Music...> Right! And don't forget his work ons William Burroughs' 'Dead city radio' and 'Spare Ass Annie' and 'The Carl Stalling project'. Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Subject: Re: Metal...Yngwie Malmsteen...Neo Classical Date: 29 Aug 2000 14:44:41 -0400 "Marcin Gokieli" wrote about Malmsteen: > If a was to say anything about him i'd call him "the shit creator". The > worst musician on the planet IMHO. Kind of Ritchie Blackmore's inefficient > clone. And for those who think he's exceptionally fast, I suggest them > considering Nigel Mansell. My favorite Yngwie quote (and I don't recall the source): "The guitar is not a typewriter." Ironic indeed. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:08:03 EDT In a message dated 8/29/00 10:01:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stefan.verstraeten@wkb.be writes: << Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist. He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it. Anyone know any informaton on this? >> He's also got at least one solo album on Shrapnel, doing the usual as usual for that label- the jazz-influenced metal type thing. Good stuff. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doron Galili" Subject: zorn cancel israel concert Date: 29 Aug 2000 19:42:41 +0300 hello as some of you maybe heard, zorn was about to play in israel in a jazz-festival, this monday, with masada (not far from the original mountain, actually) and Satlah. news-papers wrote that due to graeg cohen's back problems they won't come. it's been years since his last visit to a hebrew-speaking-country, (since the jerusalem-live-album concert). as they say in passover ceremony: "for the next year in jerusalem". we wish. take care all, doron - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Sixun Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:23:14 EDT In a message dated 8/28/2000 3:31:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com writes: > malleable@post.com said: > > I was reading an interview with Gary Willis recently, and in it, the > > interviewer mentioned a band called Sixun. A search for them or their > > records returned no responses. Anyone got some info for me? > > This is probably the best example of the terrible fusion plague that was > rampant in France in the late 80's/early 90's... Sixun, Uzeb and their cohorts > were the purveyors of some of the worst outrages against music ever committed. > Since this trend was unexplicably popular at one point, it was really easy to > come by their stuff... if your local record store has one of those 'jazz rock' > bins you might be able to find them. I'd recommend listening to them at least > once to get an idea of how bad it was. First of all, to the gentleman inquiring about live Tribal Tech, Sixun, etc., this is probably the wrong list. Some of us Avant-Garde Jazz Snobbers are easily intimidated by musicians with lots and lots of technical abilities. Especially if they sell records ! Try signing up for the Fusenet list at egroups.com. I've never heard Sixun, but their guitarist Luis Winsberg put out a pretty decent Fusion record maybe 8 or 10 years ago. You can buy all Sixun CD's and pretty much every other CD by any well known (or even obscure) fusion artist at: audiophileimports.com. -Jody - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Spaans Subject: RE: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 22:55:49 +0200 (CEST) You're so very right ;-) Which reminds me of this morning, when I bought a CD by Can, Slayer and Captain Beefheart .... which made the recordstore-guy raise his eyebrows Sorry to have shared this with you all ;-) Bye, Leon On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Benito Vergara wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans > > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:59 AM > > > Wasn't this list about Zorn ? > > Ah, but as we've seen time and again, Zorn transcends all genres. =) Plus > you have Zorn's connections to metal/hardcore, so... > > On that note, is there any sort of mailing list on all the folks we've > discussed so far? I've looked at a few lists and newsgroups, but the level > of discussion is quite sophomoric. And all the racism and homophobia is > quite appalling (check out alt.music.black-metal for that stuff). > > Thanks in advance, > Ben > > http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ > ICQ# 12832406 > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 30 Aug 2000 02:02:25 -0700 . . . a CD by Can, Slayer and Captain Beefheart .... There's a collaboration worthy of Night Music .... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: borbetomagus (more rec's...) Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:17:26 CDT I'd like to know more about the music of Borbetomagus, and which of their albums might be a better place than others to start. I liek what I think I've heard of Voice Crack, and I notice there's a longstanding VC/BM connection. COuld anyone offer some guidance? Gracias, ----s _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Your Imaginary Friend) Subject: Re: great night music memories / Willner Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:36:42 -0600 >>And within the last two years here in New York, Willner mounted a couple >>of live concerts in tribute to the Harry Smith Anthology of American >>Folk Music...> > >Right! > >And don't forget his work ons William Burroughs' 'Dead city radio' and >'Spare Ass Annie' and 'The Carl Stalling project'. Plus his production work with Marianne Faithful, Allen Ginsberg, Gavin Friday, etc. - and his own sampledelic record, "Whoops I'm an Indian," released on Howie B.'s Pussyfoot label (and a bastard to find)... Jon M. _________________________ Radio Free Norman 96.7 FM http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: glenn branca rec's requested Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:35:37 -0600 >I've heard much about his apparently cacophonous oeuvre, but I've never >heard a note. What's everybody's opinion of his work, and what >recordings---especially of the symphonies---would you recommend? I just listened to me recently aquired copy of "Symphony #2 (the Peak of the Sacred)" and I'd recommend this one although I know nothing about the rest of his music. I started daydreaming during the fourth movement and my daydreaming began to be influenced by the shifts in the music...then a rainstorm began...so my opinion might be a little biased. The recording quality isn't great. I bet a lot is missed by listening to Branca on recording vs. seeing a performance. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Schuller" Subject: Naked City For Sale Date: 29 Aug 2000 14:47:24 PDT I have added another giant heap to eBay. More Zorn stuff, Wayne Horvitz stuff, Fantomas, Marc Ribot etc. etc. etc. etc. and the cool Optical 8 cd's!!!!! seller name is schules Thanks! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: glenn branca rec's requested Date: 29 Aug 2000 17:51:22 -0400 Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) wrote: > The recording quality isn't great. I bet a lot is missed by listening to > Branca on recording vs. seeing a performance. Very much agreed. I was lucky enough to be in attendance at the Symphony #2 concert, at St. Marks Church, NYC and it was a helluva lot more visceral than comes through on the recording. The overtones sounded like choirs nestled inside your cochlea! Plus, witnessing Z'ev twirling basins and sheets of metal attached by 12-foot chains to his wrists....well, you hadda be there. I think The Ascension is a great place to start (it's available on Robi Droli). Though more overtly rock-oriented than some of his later music, the seeds are all planted. A great album, imho. If you can locate it, I'd also suggest the soundtrack to Peter Greenaway's film, "The Belly of the Architect" (on Les Disques du Crepuscule). Though you're forced to wade through a bunch of third-rate Glass by Wim Mertens, Branca's piece for string ensemble is superb. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Karuna Khyal (was: persepolis/dubravko detoni) Date: 29 Aug 2000 19:33:20 EDT In a message dated 8/29/00 12:09:40 AM, gwingfield@ou.edu writes: << anyone have any info about this band aside from the forced exposure blurb and the review on motion 51? it would be greatly appreciated. >> the Motion review actually contains most of the public knowledge about the band. nobody knows almost anything about either them or Brast Burn, including Clive Graham of Paradigm. the CDs are actually bootlegs, althought not for lack of trying to contact the musicians, with notes on them reading "Paradigm Discs is interested in any communication with Voice records, Brast Burn, Karuna Khyal, Toshiyuki Nemoto and Nakana record shop." here's a clip from the press release, from the Dutch East India site (www.dutch-east.com): <<"Debon" and "Alomoni 1985" are somewhat of a mystery. No group information was ever given, and no production date nor nor location was ever indicated. It would seem that both these records are by the same group of Japanese artists and were recorded probably in the mid 70's. In common with Magical Power Mako, the musical influences are very much Germanic, with a long hypnotic freeform rock hysteria, comparable to Faust in the use of experimentation and heavily fuzzed electric guitars. The emotional worldless vocals echo those of Damo Suzuki from Can. But unlike Can, the rhythm is wrought from hand drums, sleigh bells, tambourine, bass drum, and by other simple means. Hard blown harmonica is a strong feature on this somewhat crazed mantric rock along with recorder, flute, zither, mandolin acoustic guitar, and synth. There is also a strong use of tape loops, electronics, environmental sounds, backward tapes, and what sounds like the hysterical laughter of Stan Laurel. >> Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: question Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:48:30 -0400 Hi all I just got back from the CD store, which makes everyone here happy, and picked up some stuff that I'm excited about: Panthalessa, The Beach Boys "Friends/20/20", Esquivel, Otha Turner's Afrosippi Allstars, Eddie Cochran double cd... But I didn't get: The Essential King Crimson 4cd box and Ornette's Three Women and Virgin Beauty Has anybody heard these and care to comment. I'm almost to the point where any Ornette is good Ornette, but the Jerry Garcia connection scares the hell out of me. And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: question Date: 29 Aug 2000 21:07:33 -0400 Matt Laferty wrote: > and Ornette's > Three Women and Virgin Beauty I'm not sure what "Three Women" is, but "Virgin Beauty" (the original LP, in case it's been repackaged) is one of my _least_ favorite Ornette releases--and I love Ornette. Lot of people like it, but it does nothing for me. Brian Olewnick NP: Roberts/Dafeldecker - Aluminium; yet another excellent Erstwhile release. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: question Date: 29 Aug 2000 21:24:53 EDT In a message dated Tue, 29 Aug 2000 8:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Matt Laferty writes: << Hi all I just got back from the CD store, which makes everyone here happy, and picked up some stuff that I'm excited about: Panthalessa, The Beach Boys "Friends/20/20", Esquivel, Otha Turner's Afrosippi Allstars, Eddie Cochran double cd... >> Quite a diverse selection of stuff there. The Beach Boys' _Friends/20/20_ 2fer is an oft-overlooked gem by those who know the group only from the _Pet Sounds_ axis. Really great harmonies here. _Panthalessa_ is a delight anytime- I really enjoy it. << But I didn't get: The Essential King Crimson 4cd box (snip) And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >> Isn't this box set comprised of the Projects stuff? If so, it's their more "ambient/exploratory/jam" than most of KC's output. I tend to gravitate toward the early KC stuff ala _Red_ and earlier... Nice to be able to discuss some pseudo/non-Zorn here. I keep waiting for the complaints to mount... -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: question Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:51:54 -0400 On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 08:48:30PM -0400, Matt Laferty wrote: > Has anybody heard these and care to comment. I'm almost to the point > where any Ornette is good Ornette, but the Jerry Garcia connection > scares the hell out of me. Don't worry about the Garcia. It's a good Prime Time record (if perhaps not their best) and on a blind listen you'd never guess Garcia was on it. > And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? All King Crimson is immediately worth selling a relative to acquire. But check what's on the box for overlap with what you have already. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Re: question Date: 29 Aug 2000 21:47:33 -0400 Well, the good thing it is, is that it's not necessarily non-zorn related: Our man Z cites both Esquivel and Brian Wilson in his "Radio Hour," and his New Yorker magazine interview namedrops electric miles and field recordings from everywhere, ala the Otha Turner (which turns field recordings on its head, by mixing unashamedly the musical traditions). So I'd argue that it's all appropriately zorny. (now that zorn is no longer a proper noun, but some kind of descriptor of something...) I don't know about the King Crimson...I remember a 1991 date on it, and I think the discs had years on them...I was awash in records...I can't be sure. I'm hoping for "rarities" or something... Thanks--this is looking to be a pricier week than I imagined. Good thing on Thursdays theres a buy 3 get one free... Matt Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated Tue, 29 Aug 2000 8:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Matt Laferty writes: > > << Hi all > > I just got back from the CD store, which makes everyone here happy, and > picked up some stuff that I'm excited about: Panthalessa, The Beach Boys > "Friends/20/20", Esquivel, Otha Turner's Afrosippi Allstars, Eddie > Cochran double cd... >> > > Quite a diverse selection of stuff there. The Beach Boys' _Friends/20/20_ 2fer is an oft-overlooked gem by those who know the group only from the _Pet Sounds_ axis. Really great harmonies here. _Panthalessa_ is a delight anytime- I really enjoy it. > > << But I didn't get: > > The Essential King Crimson 4cd box > (snip) > > And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >> > > Isn't this box set comprised of the Projects stuff? If so, it's their more "ambient/exploratory/jam" than most of KC's output. I tend to gravitate toward the early KC stuff ala _Red_ and earlier... > > Nice to be able to discuss some pseudo/non-Zorn here. I keep waiting for the complaints to mount... > > -- > =dg= > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: question Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:55:29 -0400 On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 09:24:53PM -0400, Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated Tue, 29 Aug 2000 8:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Matt Laferty writes: > The Essential King Crimson 4cd box > (snip) > > And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >> > > Isn't this box set comprised of the Projects stuff? If so, it's their more "ambient/exploratory/jam" than most of KC's output. I tend to gravitate toward the early KC stuff ala _Red_ and earlier... That's what I thought he meant too, until i checked a discography. I believe he saw "Frame by Frame: The Essential King Crimson", a collection of 1969-1980s material, including a disk of at-the-time otherwise-unreleased live stuff. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: documentary sound discography/resources Date: 29 Aug 2000 22:00:41 -0400 http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/documentary.htm I'm making a stab at collecting information about documentary sound (field recordings, scientific sound, ambient sound; all non-musical even by our pretty loose definitions). If anybody has suggestions, corrections, etc I'd like to hear about them. (The criteria are basically: no processing, no sounds created to be recorded and the recording must have been somehow publicly available.) Thanks, Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Funhouse http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Toby Dodds" Subject: 300 shows... Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:06:48 -0700 300 Briggan Krauss - alto saxophone Wayne Horvitz - keyboards Kenny Wollesen - drums 09/06/00 (wed) - Sugar Refinery, Vancouver, BC 09/07/00 (thu) - Sam Bonds Garage, Eugene, OR 09/08/00 (fri) - OK Hotel, Seattle, WA 09/09/00 (sat) - Snake & Weasel, Portland, OR *all shows with Tony Sherr Band opening! Tony Scherr Band is: Tony Scherr - guitar, vocals Keith Lowe - bass Kenny Wollesen - drums hope you aren't reading this twice... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brandon Magee Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 29 Aug 2000 23:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Verstraeten Stefan sleepily stated: | Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL | HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist. | He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it. | Anyone know any informaton on this? | | (stefan)He made two albums (at least that are the ones I owne and am aware | of) that were published in Europe on the Roadrunner label. The style on | these albums? Like some of the bands that are mentioned here: "technical | death metal". The first one (don't have the titles here with me) however is | "typical" death metal.... you know, death-grunt style of singing. The second | one is in IMHO more balenced: the voice-style is more accessible (at least | you can understand what he is singing) and the guitar-lines are more | well-thought (catchy, more melody than just riffs,...). My first message to the Zorn list, and it is about my first love: Metal. Somewhat bizzare, but there will be Zorn connections made. James Murphy has also played with Testament. In fact, the last album by Testament, the Gathering, also has the bassist from Sadus (DiGregorio?) who was mentioned earlier as well as (Zorn Link here) Dave Lombardo on drums. I have not yet heard this album, however most Metal sites I have visited rated this release one of the best 10 metal albums of 1999. The album is on Spitfire. A discussion of Black Metal and Technical Metal would not be complete without the mention of Mercyful Fate and King Diamond. I happen to prefer KD above MF, but that is because KD tends to be more technical, esp. the earlier albums like Abigal and Conspiracy. I'm a big Andy LaRocque fan (he played on Death's Individual Thought Patterns). Watchtower was mentioned in this thread as well. I am very interested in actual opinions on the first album (w/ singer Jason McMaster, who later lead Dangerous Toys!). The guitarist on the second Watchtower album, and of Spastic Ink fame is Jarzombek. I want to say his first name is Ron, but I think that is his brother (who is a drummer). Also, has anyone heard the rare Blind Illusion album? (This is an album by, essentially, Primus from 1988). The other variation of metal I am starting to explore more is the so-called Melodic Death Metal, which includes such bands as In Flames and Dark Tranquility (and, if you expand beyond Gotherburg, should include the Finnish band Children of Bodom). Anyone have any thoughts? And to think, with all of this Metal knowledge, my favorite Zorn albums should be Naked City or Painkiller. But, it is the Masada's and Spillane. Life is full of strange contradictions. :) -Brandon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Subject: virgin beauty/breuker's hunger Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:25:21 -0700 yes, i'm a mong those who consider ornette's virgin beauty possibly his best prime time. "healing the feeling" would make my top 40 pop radio station. martin np. willem breuker kollektief "hunger" -- just got this and it's terrific, the best breuker i've come across. as for filing systems, this won't fit in any of my CD racks and i love it for that. if you're not going to fit in the system, you'd better be exceptional. and this is. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: question Date: 29 Aug 2000 23:43:39 -0500 Matt Laferty wrote: > The Essential King Crimson 4cd box > and Ornette's > Three Women and Virgin Beauty > > Has anybody heard these and care to comment. I'm almost to the point > where any Ornette is good Ornette, but the Jerry Garcia connection > scares the hell out of me. As you've no doubt gleaned by now, opinion varies on 'Virgin Beauty.' For me, it's Ornette's "easy listening" album. Garcia's contributions are negligible, nearly inaudible in the mix. This is much more reined in than any of the earlier Prime Time albums, with production so slick and smooth it's like a movie shot through a slightly Vaselined lens. Yet there are also some utterly beguiling melodies, and the band here (with Bern Nix and Charlie Ellerbee) is preferable in my opinion to the one that followed (heard on 'Tone Dialing'). 'Three Women' is one half of Ornette's two-part 1996 release 'Sound Museum,' and features an acoustic quartet with Geri Allen on piano, Charnette Moffett on bass and Denardo Coleman on drums. The drumming is better than I might have anticipated, and the writing is strong, but this one will largely succeed or fail on the strength of whether you feel a piano ties down Coleman's unfettered melodicism. Allen does a better job than most might. > And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? Depends on what you've got and what you might plan to acquire. 'Frame by Frame' compiles the greatest hits of the years 1969-81. There's a bit of revisionism involved on the part of Fripp, as he has all traces of former chum Gordon Haskell erased (supposedly at the latter's demand); you therefore hear Adrian Belew's voice on a track from 1970 ("Cadence and Cascade") and Tony Levin's bass on an instrumental from '71 ("Bolero"). The final disc consists of then-unreleased live material, but most of this can be found elsewhere, especially the recent live sets 'Epitaph' (from '69), 'The Nightwatch' (1974), and 'Absent Lovers' (1984). If you're not planning to buy the rest of the studio albums, you don't want the live albums mentioned and you think this set might do it for you, it's recommendable. The book is exemplary, including reprints of press clippings, as much negative as positive, and the CD remastering is very fine if not as extraordinary as the newest reissues of the studio albums currently being reissued. (For those who dig Crimson and haven't yet checked into these newly remastered CDs, I can tell you that the sound is revelatory in every instance, and it's just been announced that the great 'Larks'/'Starless'/'Red' trilogy will be reissued in October...) Me, I've got about three feet of shelving space dedicated to Crimson CDs legit and otherwise, so while I'm hardly objective, at least I might know what I'm talking about... ;-) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - nothing, the sounds of James "Blood" Ulmer with John Hicks, Reggie Workman and Rashied Ali at Sweet Basil still ringing in my ears... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. pathos" Subject: RE: metal Date: 30 Aug 2000 06:48:18 GMT I'm surprised no-one's yet mentioned SIGH, a Japanese band who sound like Venom covering "The Big Gundown" on both their excellent albums, the most recent of which is "Scenario IV: Dead Dreams." If you dig roots authenticity, I suggest anything by VENOM, and early MAYHEM as this is where black metal started, before exaggeration made the genre (too) ridiculous. Also worth checking out: anything by NEUROSIS (tribal symphonic hardcore) or SHELLAC (producer Steve Albini's current post-hardcore outfit). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: question Date: 30 Aug 2000 09:06:22 +0200 > But I didn't get: > The Essential King Crimson 4cd box > And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? You mean Frame by Frame, the essential King Crimson It depends on what you have... It has some special recordings not available anywhere else - the most obviose should be cadence and cascade with Belew overdubbing Haskell's vocals. But generally it's not that interesting, especially now tha 24 bit remasters ore out. What is REALLY interesting is another 4cd box, the great deceiver. It consisists of 4 cds of live recordings form 72-73, Don't get bothered by the fact that some songs are repeated; that music is quite widely improvised, and the overall level is incredible. Much better choice then Frame by Frame, especially if you have some Crimson already. In the vein of Starless and Bible Black. PS As i have checked out, Steve Smith's info on the Frame by Frame is much more accurate. But I'm sure he'd agree as to Great Deceiver. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: looking for japanese pressing (slayer) Date: 30 Aug 2000 13:57:23 +0200 Hello Zornmembers, Since Dave Lombardo is now an official member of the downtown scene, I think that I may ask this little question. I am looking for the japanese pressing of the Slayer album - Decade of Aggression. I have the regular one, but the japanese pressing has some interesting bonus tracks. Anyone who wants to sell this album, or make a cd-r..... wich is possible, since the japanese pressing is no longer in print. Reply me off-line please, Thanks in advance, Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: metal Date: 30 Aug 2000 13:49:24 +0200 > SHELLAC (producer Steve Albini's current post-hardcore outfit). Shellac is really great, but hardly metal. Rather guitar noise. In this genre also fantastic is German SURROGAT /CD's "Hobby", "Soul"/ or EWA BRAUN /CD's "Esion", "Ses, sea"/ from Poland. Also Polish - German outfit SPOKOJ /CD "Immer mit der Ruhe"/. Polish black-metal groups worth listening are Vader , Behemoth and Lux Occulta /very pagan stuff/. Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: question Date: 30 Aug 2000 12:08:26 GMT ----Original Message Follows---- and Ornette's Three Women and Virgin Beauty Has anybody heard these and care to comment. I'm almost to the point where any Ornette is good Ornette, but the Jerry Garcia connection scares the hell out of me. - Virgin Beauty is a nice low-key Prime Time outing. Tone Dialing is also quite good. Neither have the urgency of other Prime Time releases however. They're not very artsy, and you won't find the theory of harmolodics advancing far here. But who cares. They're both fun. I generally prefer "Of Human Feelings" and "In All Languages," which also has the quartet on one disk. I'm quite happy that this one became available again in the last couple years after Caravan of Dreams drifted away into the ethosphere. NP: Art Ensemble--Paris Session STP (Soon To Play or Sensually Transmitted Pleasures): The Tatum Group Masterpieces _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Upcoming W&W releases Date: 30 Aug 2000 14:49:30 +0200 Hello zornmembers ! Two new releases seem to be planned on Winter & Winter for early Autumn (seen on big online store): - "Winter Theme" by the Amsterdam String Trio (September 12th). - "Alasnoaxis" by Jim Black (October 17th) This sounds really interesting to me.... but does any of you have further info on these future releases? .... (such as... Who is in the Amsterdam String Trio? Probably Ernst Reisjeger... but who else? Any comments on their music? Who plays on the Jim Black album? Is it a regular band he is leading? Has this band played concerts already? Impressions?, etc.....) Thanks for your help. Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Re: Three women / 'Nette Date: 30 Aug 2000 07:52:31 -0500 At 21:07 29-08-00 -0400, Brian Olewnick wrote: >Matt Laferty wrote: > >> and Ornette's >> Three Women and Virgin Beauty > >I'm not sure what "Three Women" is, but "Virgin Beauty" (the original >LP, in case it's been repackaged) is one of my _least_ favorite Ornette >releases--and I love Ornette. Lot of people like it, but it does nothing >for me. > >Brian Olewnick > >NP: Roberts/Dafeldecker - Aluminium; yet another excellent Erstwhile >release. I assume that "Three women" would be "The hidden museum : three women", one of Ornette's better outings in recent memory (to these old earbones, at least). Geri Allen's presence makes for very interesting music. Hope this helps. NP:Difference tones / Contrafactum (from Surrealestate) Saturnally, Joe Moudry, Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz): Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: new AUBE (no zorn content) Date: 30 Aug 2000 16:17:49 +0200 Hello, Yep, let me grap another chance to plug one of my favourite musicians called AUBE. The Italian label called Amplexus (the one that brought us the AUBE cd Ricochetentrance) puts out a huge project, but very limited. Below you will find the information. The first 6 are allready published and they sound great as allways. Best wishes, Stefan Verstraeten NP Merzbox: Mort aux Vaches ---------------- Original message ---------------- MILLENNIUM a new project by A U B E A musical project that will chatch your mind and soul for one year time: AUBE, a well-know genius of the international scene, will offer you one of the great events of 2000; he will dedicate to the first year of the new millennium a monumental sonic opera in twelwe chapters. Every month of the new year will offer you a tast of AUBE's artistic talent; a sedicing mixture of obscure influences and experimental excursions, from noisy structures to ambient landscapes. From January to December, along the four seasons, from a solstice to an equinox, AUBE will lead you in a pleasant one year period journey from the dawn of first day to the twilight of the last one, with the ideal soundtrack for the beginnin of a new era. For this exciting sequence of emotional dates, ARMONIKA is creating a high quality releasing plan: each compact disc will be out in 500 copies strictly limited edition, with exclusive artistic cover. Each month a chapter will be released, but it will be possible to sign a subscription in order to get the entire work: the subscription include all 12 CD in a special handnumbered edition and a special DOUBLE LP manufactured for the subscribers ONLY and including all exclusive material. ATTENTION: ONLY 120 subscriptions are possible. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:35:11 -0400 Hello, > - "Winter Theme" by the Amsterdam String Trio (September 12th). >(...) Who is in the Amsterdam String Trio? Probably Ernst Reisjeger... but >who else? To my knowledge, the Amsterdam String Trio is: Maurice Horsthuis: alto Ernst Glerum: bass Ernst Reijseger: cello Please correct me if I am wrong... Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Carolyn Sills" Subject: Re: zorn cancel israel concert Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:41:36 -0400 Zorn will be playing Music of Masada in New York City on October 16, 2000 at Merkin Concert Hall. It is part of his reign as "featured composer" at Merkin Hall for the 2000-2002 seasons. He will be performing often there over the two year period, giving talks and having "last minute concerts" where he will spontaneously decide to perform on random evenings. If you want more info on it, go to www.ekcc.org and look under Merkin Concert Hall. Or you can call the box office at (212) 501-3330. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 12:42 PM > hello > as some of you maybe heard, zorn was about to play in israel in a > jazz-festival, this monday, with masada (not far from the original mountain, > actually) and Satlah. > news-papers wrote that due to graeg cohen's back problems they won't come. > it's been years since his last visit to a hebrew-speaking-country, (since > the jerusalem-live-album concert). > > as they say in passover ceremony: "for the next year in jerusalem". we wish. > > take care all, > doron > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Odp: question Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:46:38 -0500 Marcin Gokieli wrote: > PS As i have checked out, Steve Smith's info on the Frame by Frame is much > more accurate. But I'm sure he'd agree as to Great Deceiver. Yes, I would. But as for accuracy, I should correct one tiny detail - 'Frame by Frame' covers 1969-1984, not 1969-1981. Gotta doublecheck before I hit send, really... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Keenliside" Subject: oxy morons Date: 30 Aug 2000 15:04:23 -0000 Intelligent??? Metal??? Am I on the right mailing list??? Anyway, long live the Sabs! _____________________________________________________________ Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: question Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:39:12 -0400 On Wed, Aug 30, 2000 at 12:08:26PM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote: > Virgin Beauty is a nice low-key Prime Time outing. Tone Dialing is also > quite good. Neither have the urgency of other Prime Time releases however. > They're not very artsy, and you won't find the theory of harmolodics > advancing far here. But who cares. They're both fun. I generally prefer > "Of Human Feelings" and "In All Languages," which also has the quartet on > one disk. I'm quite happy that this one became available again in the last > couple years after Caravan of Dreams drifted away into the ethosphere. This reminds me: is anyone alive at harmolodic.com? The pages don't seem to have changed in months. Is the label still alive, or has it been eaten in a merger or something? The two CDs you mention are definitely my fave Prime Time CDs. Those who want the CD of "In All Languages", though, should note that it's a single disc, containing the contents of the two vinyl discs. And AFAIK, "Of Human Feelings" only came out on CD in Japan. I found it (for more than I wanted to pay) on eBay. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: question Date: 30 Aug 2000 15:59:04 GMT ----Original Message Follows---- The two CDs you mention are definitely my fave Prime Time CDs. Those who want the CD of "In All Languages", though, should note that it's a single disc, containing the contents of the two vinyl discs. And AFAIK, "Of Human Feelings" only came out on CD in Japan. I found it (for more than I wanted to pay) on eBay. - Yes, that's right Joseph. I actually own both the vinyl and the CD and had forgotten that fact. And it's sad as well that "Of Human Feelings" remains for me only on a somewhat scratched piece of vinyl. I'll keep my fingers crossed that Harmolodic will return and issue it on CD. NP: Steve Roach on mp3 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: question Date: 30 Aug 2000 12:14:37 EDT In a message dated 8/30/00 3:12:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << What is REALLY interesting is another 4cd box, the great deceiver. It consisists of 4 cds of live recordings form 72-73, Don't get bothered by the fact that some songs are repeated; that music is quite widely improvised, and the overall level is incredible. >> Nothing much to add other than a "thumbs up" from me too, on this set. I bought it when it first came out around 5-6 years ago, IIRC. It has recently been remastered/reissued, and supposedly sounds wonderful. Marcin- does this reissue contain any new material at all? -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases Date: 30 Aug 2000 11:18:56 -0500 (CDT) > Two new releases seem to be planned on Winter & Winter for early Autumn > > - "Alasnoaxis" by Jim Black (October 17th) > > This sounds really interesting to me.... but does any of you have > further info on these future releases? Alasnoaxis is Jim Black (drums), Chris Speed (reeds), Hillmar Jenson (guitar), and Skuli Sverrison (elec bass). Some blurbs I've seen on the web for their infrequent gigs include such curious descriptors as "smallprov song chop" and "electronic hard crawl." The latter reminds me of Jim gushing in an old Modern Drummer interview about Squarepusher and a handful of other electronica programmers, so I'm guessing the influence of that whole movement may rear its head with this band. Of course, I really have no idea, but am nevertheless very excited about this record - Jim is probably my favorite drummer (at the very least, favorite young drummer) playing today and the Pachora and Human Feel records have revealed him to be an clever composer as well. Anyone out there actually heard this band? Steve? Matt? And if the above image of downtowners attacking electronica sounds interesting to you, Jamie Saft's 'Sovlanut' might very possibly be worth your while: Saft (keys) , Chris Speed, Jim Black, and Groove Collective bassist Jason Maron playing Jewish and Middle Eastern themes over a crazy backdrop of live drum'n'bass and dub. Mmm mmm good. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: question Date: 30 Aug 2000 12:34:36 -0500 Joseph Zitt wrote: > This reminds me: is anyone alive at harmolodic.com? The pages don't seem > to have changed in months. Is the label still alive, or has it been > eaten in a merger or something? They do seem to be rather slow, don't they? I'd expected that the label would meet its end in the Universal/Polygram merger, but this seems not to have been the case. There was talk on the Ornette list not so long ago about some new releases pending, but I can't remember what they were. Anyone? Harmolodic threw one hell of 70th birthday party for Ornette here in Manhattan. Friends told me about it later... wish I could have been there. Patti Smith got up and introduced Ornette, who then proceeded to play duets with Charlie Haden, a trio with Charnett Moffett and Denardo, a duet with Joachim Kuhn, a quartet with Dewey Redman, Charnett and (I think) Denardo, and an expanded Prime Time: Badal Roy on tabla, Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Chris Walker on basses, Kenny Wessel, Chris Rosenberg and Charlie Ellerbee on guitars, Dave Bryant on piano, Calvin Weston on drums, Graham Haynes on cornet. The mind reels. Even Stanley Crouch got up on stage and proclaimed Coleman a genius. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Ornette Coleman & Joachim Kuhn, "Refills," 'Colors' (Harmolodic) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: oxy morons Date: 30 Aug 2000 18:44:02 +0200 > Intelligent??? Metal??? Am I on the right mailing list??? > Anyway, long live the Sabs! Yez. Satan rulez :))) 666 Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases Date: 30 Aug 2000 17:05:27 +0200 > - "Winter Theme" by the Amsterdam String Trio (September 12th). > > ... Who is in the Amsterdam > String Trio? Probably Ernst Reisjeger... but who else? Any comments on > their music? The Amsterdam String Trio is one of my favorite groups ever. Being a total stranger to most of the music discussed there recently ( I saved some post in amazement to the knowledge and information contained) I feel happy I can contribute something. In addition to Ernst Reijseger, the other players are Ernst Glerum - current bassist with Misha Mengelberg's ICP orchestra - and Maurice Horsthuis, viola. The Trio has been "dormant" for years following one of those breakdowns that happen between creative hardheaded people, but its only two official records - one Lp and one Cd - are excellent examples of integration between melody, composition, free improvisation and that healthy dose of humour that seems a typical ingredient of Dutch jazz (see Dutch Swing by K. Whitehead if you do not know it already). Horsthuis is a beautiful composer, his orchestra Amsterdam Drama being for me inexplicably not considered at the top of the European scene: think of a melodical flow reminiscent of Schubert played through a modern (not pm) sensitivity. You could say that these guys defined "chamber jazz" ten and more years ago. I managed to slip this trio in a classical series of concerts here in Pisa, reaching an all-time low attendance as the jazz people didn't come (classical?) and the classical people didn't come either (who's the Composer?). The 12 presents loved it though, and I regularly use its music as an introduction to European Free Improvisation for classical musicians, with great results. I think the AST was revived only 2 years ago, at the Horthuis 50th Birthday Party at the Bim, and I look forward to have them record and tour again regularly. Finally, I want to mention that Zorn once played in a Dutch group lead by Maarten Altena called from A(ltena) to Z(orn) - in fact some of the music in Masada remind me often of early Dutch "chamber jazz" (Janssen, Altena, Reijseger and such). Still trying to figure out differences between death metal noise grind and skronk... Francesco _________________ Francesco Martinelli Lungarno Mediceo 10 56127 PISA ITALY email: fmartinelli@tin.it webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/ fax 0039 050 313 75 02 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: ornette/roulette Date: 30 Aug 2000 11:05:17 -0500 no one's mentioned the one perk of 'virgin beauty' -- having in your collection a track entitld "singing in the shower (with jerry garcia)". also, nyers anyway, i just stumbled on the fall roulette sked, postd on the web site (roulette.org). killer stuff. the best overall season they've had in some years, methinks. np: bradford reed - live at home - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases Date: 30 Aug 2000 14:27:11 -0400 Does W&W have a website or email address? Alan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases Date: 30 Aug 2000 13:49:45 CDT >From: "Alan Lankin" >Does W&W have a website or email address? The website has been: http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de though as of late, there has been no response. What a waste! ----s _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases Date: 30 Aug 2000 14:51:54 EDT lankina@att.net writes: > Does W&W have a website or email address? Not that I'm aware of (i asked this on another list months ago), a web search gave me nothing, and it wasn't listed on the Independent Record labels page: There is, however, a list (in German, i think) of some of their recordings: http://www.edel.de/sndtrack/winter.htm jeff caltabiano n.p. woody shaw: the iron men - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: cute message from Aldo, our favorite record owner Date: 30 Aug 2000 12:05:10 -0700 Picked up on r.m.b.: ------- Forwarded Message Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote I wish to inform you that within September I will put in sale my private collection of the Lp's of HORO RECORDS. The Lp's are all originates them, still in cellophane, prints in years '70. You will find all the news c/o the website ones: aldosinesioeditore.it Aldo Sinesio Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------- End of Forwarded Message - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: NYC show Friday: Dean Roberts/Haunted House at Tonic Date: 30 Aug 2000 17:11:35 EDT sorry for the NYC-centric nature of this, but it was just added to Tonic's schedule for this Friday, 9/1. the Wine Thieves actually consist of Dean, Tim and Matt Valentine of Tower Recordings, although Alan Licht will indeed be added for this show. they'll be performing songs, some from Dean's Ritornell record, with Dean on vocals. this is their debut performance. Dean Roberts & the Wine Thieves plus Haunted House at 8:00pm, $8 Double Bill Dean Roberts & the Wine Thieves : With Dean Roberts (guitar, electronics), Tim Barnes (drums), & Alan Licht (vibes). New Zealand's Dean Roberts has been running around with the Vienna powerbook crowd lately (check out his new CD w/Werner Dafeldecker on Erstwhile), but tonight he hooks up with NYC amigos Barnes and Licht to kick out the jams. Haunted House : With Loren Mazzacane Connors (guitar), Suzanne Langille (vocals), Andrew Burnes (guitar), & Neel Murgai (Persian daf). Loren Mazzacane's desolate blues band returns to the Tonic stage for the first time since the historic Mazza-thon last October. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rob.allaert@charity.nu Subject: Dave responds !!! Date: 28 Aug 2000 06:37:33 +0200 Hi Rob, Thanks for the email. As you can probably imagine, I was asked this question a lot on my trip to Argentina. Misha M. and I went to hear the quintet of Horacio Salgan, tango pianist and composer. It was just fantastic -- interactive and dynamic and beautiful. Even Misha liked it... So, maybe some day. Piazzola's music is hard to touch because it's so perfect and so many people have been covering it. Perhaps it would be better covered by a metal band... Happy listening, Dave Douglas > Hi Dave, Needless to say that it is my admiration which drives me >to ask if you'll ever consider doing a Piazolla recording with, for >example, the Charms group ? Rob Allaert, Belgium http://www.frontstage.com/rob "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing". ________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: question Date: 30 Aug 2000 21:10:36 -0400 > > The Essential King Crimson 4cd box > > (snip) > > > > And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >> I know of two KC box sets. One is a collection of stuff from albums, with some live stuff intersprinkled and the KC Barbershop Quartet, which is cute. The other is a four CD of pure live stuff. I believe that all the live stuff (like Doctor Diamond, which rules) from the first box is on the live box. And, of course, Fripp being Fripp, he has probably since re-mastered all THAT live stuff as well. In any case, the first set is a nice overview, but if you've already got the stuff from 1969-1980's, you've got almost everything on there. Alas. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: metal: black etc Date: 30 Aug 2000 20:24:04 -0700 (PDT) ate: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:02:40 -0400 (EDT) The other variation of metal I am starting to explore more is the so-called Melodic Death Metal, which includes such bands as In Flames and Dark Tranquility (and, if you expand beyond Gotherburg, should include the Finnish band Children of Bodom). Anyone have any thoughts? - -Brandon Yes. It's not that good, mostly. Dark Tranquility has some nice passages but the vocals ruin the whole thing... and I never really liked In Flames or Children of Bodom that much... Someone mentioned the great Austrian band Pungent Stench... well, they broke up in 1996 I think and released a posthumous compilation of rarities and such in 1998 called "Praise the Musical Assassins", which is a MUST!!! Viva la muerte, A __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Dead Reckoning Date: 31 Aug 2000 01:29:55 -0500 Dear Z-listers: I'm sure there are dozens of more "appropriate" and logical sources to which I could have turned with this request, but as yours are the voices I've come to know and trust, I turn once more to you. I've got an inexplicable urge to investigate the Grateful Dead, and I'd like to know what recordings you recommend for getting started. As you might expect, my own Dead collection at this point is minimal: John Oswald's "Dark Star" pastiche 'Greyfolded' and the band's own improv tapestry 'Infrared Roses,' plus one of the 'Dick's Picks' volumes purchased this evening after hearing it over the weekend at a friend's house. I've heard that there are brilliant and innovative things in the band's early output, and I also kinda like the low-intensity burn of the live set I bought, though even I can tell that this is far from prime Dead - Jerry just sounds ragged and the keyboards sound oh-so-'80s even though it's a show from 1990. And thus, I turn to you. As I can't really imagine much Zorn content in such a discussion (certainly far less than in a discussion of metal), private responses are more than welcome. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Grateful Dead, "Morning Dew," 'Dick's Picks, Vol. 9' (Grateful Dead) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Dead Reckoning Date: 30 Aug 2000 23:28:34 -0700 Steve Smith wrote: >=20 > I've heard that there are brilliant and innovative things in the band's > early output, and I also kinda like the low-intensity burn of the live > set I bought, though even I can tell that this is far from prime Dead - > Jerry just sounds ragged and the keyboards sound oh-so-'80s even though > it's a show from 1990. The stuff that you really need to hear would basically be _Anthem of the = Sun_, the second album, which include some brief, fairly warped concr=E9te intr= usions and one of their feedback workouts, along with the original version of on= e of their concert staples ("The Other One") and a kazoo chorale; and _Live De= ad_, the fourth album, which pretty much defines what they did as improvisors = on the first two sides, and has a brilliant feedback section (called "Feedback")= on side 4 (I doubt I've willingly listened to the 15-minute "Turn On Your Lovelight" on side 3 in the last 20 years, tho). I've never been very fon= d of _Aoxomoxoa_, the third album -- it just seems an unfocussed mess; after t= hat, they went directly to the Americana stuff that ruined 'em for me on _Work= ingmans Dead_ and _American Beauty_. The _Fillmore East 2/69_ set that came out a= couple years ago has some moments -- they were an opening act, so everything's r= eally concise & condensed, which some might say is a big plus in the Dead's cas= e ;-) ... I haven't heard Dick's Pick #16 (Fillmore Aud. 11/69) but judging fro= m the track titles & timings (34 minutes of "Caution Do Not Stop On Tracks"/"Fe= edback" jam) my guess is that this would do you well if the recording quality's u= p to snuff. Garcia's first solo album (the one on Warners with the fake Dali cover, *= not* the one on Round with the fake Peter Max cover) has some fairly outside electronic stuff on it, aside from _Seastones_ probably the stuff that wo= uld seem most "experimental" to now-ears. _Seastones_ is a duo album by Phil Lesh and Ned Lagin which was Phil's opportunity to stand up & say "See, I *did* go to graduate school." All-electronic and essential. _Blues for Allah_ from 75 was something of a return to form -- the materi= al that takes up most of side one ("Help on the Way", "Franklin's Tower", etc.) p= rovided them with the foundation for some serious improvisation for a change (wri= ting material that was *appropriate* to jam on was a knack they'd sorta lost i= n the interim); the versions on the album are very good for a change, and they = did some great live shows during this period, none of which I think have made= it to Dick's Picks yet but if the Great American Music Hall or the Orpheum Thea= tre or the Cow Palace in '76, should turn up, any of those is likely to be prett= y hot, depending on which show of each run they pick; I haven't heard the Winter= land '77 one but I was there & I don't remember it being that great). Anyway, = side two of _Blues for Allah_ features some extended studio-as-instrument stuf= f which holds up well still (I just played it a week or so ago, it worked for me anyway). I don't really rate any of the 80s or 90s stuff at all ... the keyboard p= layers from those decades just plain bit, sorry. --=20 Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "My hair has grown thin thinking of music." -- I Wayan Lotring - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases Date: 31 Aug 2000 09:30:48 +0200 I don't think there W&W has an official website yet. Anyway, for any contact: Winter & Winter, Osterwaldstrasse 10, Haus 19, D-80805 Munich, Germany Tel: +49 89 36 10 10 50 Fax: +49 89 36 10 10 55 Email: WinterProduction@compuserve.com Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: question Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:03:40 +0200 > Nothing much to add other than a "thumbs up" from me too, on this set. I > bought it when it first came out around 5-6 years ago, IIRC. It has recently > been remastered/reissued, and supposedly sounds wonderful. > Marcin- does this reissue contain any new material at all? As far as i know, it doesn't. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd i bought Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:34:29 +0200 hi y'all. bought a new cd yesterday that totally amazes me; i'm spellbound... traditional music from uzbekistan, sung by female singer munadjat yulchieva, who is accompanied by the ensemble shavkat mirzaev; plus some guest musicians. both, the language and the music, remind of of some arab, turkish and armenian stuff i've heard. some of the sounds you hear on this cd are simply magic! maybe that has to do with the fact that the music - according to the liner notes - is all about trying to get closer to god. the label, world network (as far as i can make out, it's owned by german tv channel "wdr - westdeutscher rundfunk"), included a catlogue; they've got an awful lot of releases of traditional music from around the world. some of their cds have won international music awards. i can only recommend this cd; and probably the label, too. patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: virgin beauty/breuker's hunger Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:49:02 +0200 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com Aan: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Datum: woensdag 30 augustus 2000 5:27 Onderwerp: virgin beauty/breuker's hunger >np. willem breuker kollektief "hunger" -- just got this and it's >terrific, the best breuker i've come across. as for filing systems, >this won't fit in any of my CD racks and i love it for that. if you're >not going to fit in the system, you'd better be exceptional. and this >is. Willem Breuker has from the beginning been interested in deviated packings for his music. The big music companies wouldn't bring out the kind of music he and others were making. So in 1973/1974 he and pianoplayer Leo Cuypers founded their own record company called 'BV Haast' (this means something like 'Hurry up'). The packings often demonstrate a kind of stubbornnes in the sense that they weren't always easy to fit in the racks, just like the music that was difficult to classify (at that time that is). Check f.i. 'Pakkepapen' or 'Heibel' (genuine camembert-box). One of the first was a Willem Breuker/Leo Cuypers record in a big triangular sleeve that drove storekeepers and collectors up the wall. Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd i bought Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:53:34 +0200 I'll second PatRice, this album by Munadjat Yulchieva (the only one I have by her) is really beautiful and I would also recommend it to any world trad fan. Other beautiful release from the same label (World Network) that comes to my mind is "Syria; Hamza Shakkur (voc) + ensemble Al Kindi". Great persian music and beautiful singer. Maybe more will come to mind later... By the way... any Oum Kalsoum recommendations ??? I heard one piece, "Al Atlal" from a concert tape... it was really fantastic !! Pascal At 10:34 31/08/00 +0200, PatRice wrote: >hi y'all. > >bought a new cd yesterday that totally amazes me; i'm spellbound... > >traditional music from uzbekistan, sung by female singer munadjat >yulchieva, who is accompanied by the ensemble shavkat mirzaev; plus some >guest musicians. > >both, the language and the music, remind of of some arab, turkish and >armenian stuff i've heard. > >some of the sounds you hear on this cd are simply magic! maybe that has >to do with the fact that the music - according to the liner notes - is >all about trying to get closer to god. > >the label, world network (as far as i can make out, it's owned by german >tv channel "wdr - westdeutscher rundfunk"), included a catlogue; they've >got an awful lot of releases of traditional music from around the world. >some of their cds have won international music awards. > >i can only recommend this cd; and probably the label, too. > >patRice > > >- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: Comments on Raymond Scott? Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:24:42 +0200 Hello, Does anyone on this list heard this release or knows something about this figure? It seems interesting. Thanks in advance, Stefan Verstraeten Raymond Scott:manhattan research inc. No doubt Raymond Scott is/was one of the most important people when it comes down to anything connected with electronic music. this hefty compilation collects unreleased material from the fifties/sixties ranging from tv commercials to experiments.... Rs not only delivers the music, he also build his own instruments as shown/written in the 144 page booklet accompagnying this wonderfull release. Absolutelly essential for professors in musichistories, analists, freakshows, and hip/trendy technoguys. this guy showed the way for lots of us, including Kraftwerk, Motown, and probably even some very young foetusses from The Wire... bloody recommended - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Oum Kalsoum Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:30:18 +0200 > By the way... any Oum Kalsoum recommendations ??? I heard one piece, "Al > Atlal" from a concert tape... it was really fantastic !! I'd give some as I have an extensive collection of cassettes, video and cds but after the deafening silence followed to my post on the AST I'll refrain to it and go back to the Cd player to listen to some death trash blind violent bloody metal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ljova" Subject: RE: Comments on Raymond Scott? Date: 31 Aug 2000 05:26:28 -0400 Stefan -- Raymond Scott is indeed very interesting -- an experimental composer whose music just happened to get used in cartoons. There's a big website about him (built by some dedicated fans) at http://www.RaymondScott.com/ And there's a CD of his own Original Sextet recordings on Columbia. Not sure if it's been deleted. -Ljova -------- Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin L@Ljova.com http://Ljova.com "Do not fear mistakes - there are none." -Miles Davis > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Comments on Raymond Scott? > > > Hello, > > Does anyone on this list heard this release or knows something about this > figure? > > It seems interesting. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: Comments on Raymond Scott? Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:28:37 GMT+0100 Just buy it as fast as you can!!!!!!!!!! This is really amazing stuff. Jeroen > Hello, > > Does anyone on this list heard this release or knows something about > this figure? > > It seems interesting. > > Thanks in advance, > > Stefan Verstraeten > > ------------------------------------- > Raymond Scott:manhattan research inc. > > No doubt Raymond Scott is/was one of the most important people when it > comes down to anything connected with electronic music. this hefty > compilation collects unreleased material from the fifties/sixties > ranging from tv commercials to experiments.... Rs not only delivers > the music, he also build his own instruments as shown/written in the > 144 page booklet accompagnying this wonderfull release. Absolutelly > essential for professors in musichistories, analists, freakshows, and > hip/trendy technoguys. this guy showed the way for lots of us, > including Kraftwerk, Motown, and probably even some very young > foetusses from The Wire... bloody recommended > > - > Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd i bought Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:39:07 +0200 pascal, thanks for the recommendation; i'll check that cd out, too. i'll also try to find out if there is any info available on the net for the world network label. have you ever seen a catalogue of their releases? they've got an impressive list of very interesting stuff: klezmer, sufi music, music from algeria, armenia, india, some different greek regions, etc. etc. etc. absolutely interesting cds! another label i've discovered that will make me spend more and more money... ;-) but this traditional/ethnic music is what has really been doing it for me recently. with a bit of napalm death thrown in every now and then... patRice Pascal Cortes wrote: > fan. Other beautiful release from the same label (World Network) that comes > to my mind is "Syria; Hamza Shakkur (voc) + ensemble Al Kindi". Great > persian music and beautiful singer. Maybe more will come to mind later... > > By the way... any Oum Kalsoum recommendations ??? I heard one piece, "Al > Atlal" from a concert tape... it was really fantastic !! > > Pascal - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd i bought Date: 31 Aug 2000 12:20:02 +0200 No, I've never seen their catalogue, but they are well distributed here in France, so I've seen many of their releases in stores. Great stuff. Contact info: Network.Medien@compuserve.com post: NETWORK Medien GmbH Merianplatz 10 D-60316 Frankfurt Germany tel: ++49 (0) 69/ 4 99 00 40. fax: same, but for last two digits: ++49(0) 69/ 4 99 00 97 Other great world/trad label doing it for me is Ocora ( website in french: http://www.radio-france.fr/divers/boutique/index.php?rayon=musique). Available on the other side of Atlantic from Verge Music Distribution (http://www.vergemusic.com/cookiePass.cfm). From the Indian and Pakistanese "classics" (Shankar, Ali Khan) to.... almost anything, including Munadjat Yulchieva from Usbekistan (sp. changes). Pascal. Pascal. Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Dead Reckoning Date: 31 Aug 2000 07:36:49 -0400 At 01:29 AM 8/31/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > >I've got an inexplicable urge to investigate the Grateful Dead I can do little more than second the recommendations for Anthem of the Sun and the Live Dead. I started going through my Dead collection a while back, and was drawn to Live Dead because of Dark Star (and the Oswald connection). When the Feedback track came on, I actually got up to see the cover, to make sure something else hadn't somehow snuck into the speakers. And WRT Anthem, years ago I had a chance to spend a little time with Bill Payne, the keyboard player of Little Feat. He practiced Bach for a couple of hours each day 'for technique', so we discussed various classical composers. I mentioned Cage, which he dismissed, until I also mentioned that the Dead used prepared piano on Anthem. Shook him up a little bit (although I never heard any prepared piano on any Feats album). Anyway, it's definitely the furthest out of any of their studio albums. And a discussion of one of John Oswald's sources is more closely related to Zorn than a lot of what goes on around here (not that I'm complaining about any of it -- the eclecticity is what makes this list great)... -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: radio france label(was: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd) Date: 31 Aug 2000 13:40:55 +0200 hi again, pascal! oh yeah, radio france's label! absolutely great! we used to also get radio france via cable here. they always played lots of great and interesting music! unfortunately we don't receive it here anymore. :-( i hate listening to the radio, but radio france was a big time exception. their label also has some very interesting african stuff out, for those of you who are into that. patRice Pascal Cortes wrote: > > Other great world/trad label doing it for me is Ocora ( website in french: > http://www.radio-france.fr/divers/boutique/index.php?rayon=musique). > Available on the other side of Atlantic from Verge Music Distribution > (http://www.vergemusic.com/cookiePass.cfm). From the Indian and Pakistanese > "classics" (Shankar, Ali Khan) to.... almost anything, including Munadjat > Yulchieva from Usbekistan (sp. changes). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Network (was: NO ZORN CONTENT) Date: 31 Aug 2000 14:07:53 +0200 Here is the website for the german world/trad label Networks (just found it): http://www.networkmedien.de/ Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Dead Reckoning Date: 31 Aug 2000 12:23:07 GMT ----Original Message Follows---- I've got an inexplicable urge to investigate the Grateful Dead, and I'd like to know what recordings you recommend for getting started. ------------------------ I can't really listen to the Dead anymore for reasons that have little to do with the band. But back in the days when I was into the band, the records I played the most were "Europe '72," "Terrapin Station," and "Workingman's Dead." The "Live Dead" was also quite good. Were I to turn back to the Dead now, I would pick up "Europe '72" first. They hit a groove at that point and nothing that followed in the eighties and nineties, as Jim noted, had the same sense after the band had become a substantial commercial success. They were accomplished improvisers who probably just became a bit bored playing the same stuff every night to the relentless cult that surrounded them. I like some of Jerry's playing with David Grisman which I still spin once in a blue moon. NP: Boniche Dub STP: Jah Wobble, Molam Dub _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Test Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:53:52 +0100 Disregard the test or else play some death metal to accompany it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 30 Aug 2000 11:13:50 +0100 Nils wrote: > the rack is set up so the easiest to reach is the bottom. > people who visit my house and want to choose music inevitably > get pissed off that they are too short to reach the music they like. > Alphabetically. I keep the stuff that the short people (wife and kids) like on the bottom shelf. I don't want to piss *them* off. > man i really need to get that braxton solo disc. Run, don't walk, to the nearest store that has it. Stunning. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 30 Aug 2000 11:18:04 +0100 Arthur Gadney wrote: > Hey, > > >records collection = penis size ? > It's an inverse relationship. I'm proud to say that I have one of the smallest collections on this list. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: Braxton solo in question (was: genres) Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:04:36 CDT > > man i really need to get that braxton solo disc. > >Run, don't walk, to the nearest store that has it. Stunning. > >--Mike I checked the archives and still I'm not sure which Brax solo Nils and Mike were talking about. FOR ALTO? OR something new? ---s _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Braxton solo in question (was: genres) Date: 31 Aug 2000 12:11:44 -0400 Kristopher S. Handley wrote: > I checked the archives and still I'm not sure which Brax solo Nils and Mike > were talking about. FOR ALTO? OR something new? Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark, along with Muhal's THINGS TO COME FROM THOSE NOW GONE and a Kalaparusha album. The Brax is essential, just an amazing recording. All the more for the confidence and conception shown by a 23-year old Braxton. The Abrams is a bit of a mixed bag, imo, but there are a few stand-out tracks including one of the very best things he ever recorded, 'The March of the Transients', a great free-bop number. Brian Olewnick NP: Jon Lloyd - Head - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Shugg" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Date: 31 Aug 2000 16:46:47 GMT Arthur Gadney wrote: > Hey, > > >records collection = penis size ? > contemplating my small collection, still trying to work out the implications for the penistically-challenged like me... - Kristy _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: kalaparusha Date: 31 Aug 2000 13:10:54 -0500 >>>Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark, along with Muhal's THINGS TO COME FROM THOSE NOW GONE and a Kalaparusha album... "humility in the light of the creator" is, i'm guessing, pre-"kalaparusha," since he's billed only as "maurice mcintyre." this is a surprisingly good, interesting disc. the other one delmark has reissued "forces and feelings" doesn't stand out as much, i don't think. it's a heavy session, like so many, but somewhat undistinguished. this one has two lp-side suites, that work quite nicely as suites (with recurring themes and some quite interesting vocals by a fella named george hines. also included or malachi favors, thurman barker, ajaramu, leo smith, john stubblefield and claudine myers (pre-"amina"?). recorded in '69. i got all three delmark reissues and this is the surprise of the bunch. the muhal, i agree, is uneven and not his best, although i quite like the 10 minute drum/synth duet with steve mccall, "1 and 4 plus 2 and 7". i actually always like muhal's synth work. interesting how there's so little of it (but maybe that keeps me liking it)(smiley punctuation emoticon thingy). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gulickx" Subject: can i drop in? Date: 31 Aug 2000 19:13:16 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0137F.8400E780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list. At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'. Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET. Am i doin=B4 allright? Or am i interrupting your discussion? Karel. ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0137F.8400E780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=B4m a new member of the = zorn-list.
At this very moment i=B4m listening to = 'MASADA live=20 in Middelheim'.
Two weeks ago i bought a cd from = CHARLES=20 TRENET.
 
Am i doin=B4 allright?
 
Or am i interrupting your = discussion?
 
Karel.
------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0137F.8400E780-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Braxton solo in question Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:29:22 -0700 > > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:11:44 -0400 > From: Brian Olewnick > Subject: Re: Braxton solo in question (was: genres) > > Kristopher S. Handley wrote: > > > I checked the archives and still I'm not sure which Brax solo Nils and Mike > > were talking about. FOR ALTO? OR something new? > > Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark, along with Muhal's THINGS > TO COME FROM THOSE NOW GONE and a Kalaparusha album. The Brax is > essential, just an amazing recording. All the more for the confidence > and conception shown by a 23-year old Braxton. The Abrams is a bit of a > mixed bag, imo, but there are a few stand-out tracks including one of > the very best things he ever recorded, 'The March of the Transients', a > great free-bop number. > > Brian Olewnick I just picked up For Alto two days ago, and haven't had a chance to give it a proper listen yet. I've tried three times, and always ended up having to leave before I got more than 1/2 way into it. But what I heard, I liked. Much more raw than latter solo stuff, I think. I didn't know that the Abrams disc was also issued -- I'll have to look at the store to see if it is there. It sounds like a typical Abrams disc -- i find almost everything he has recorded to be a bit spotty, with some dead wood mixed into lots of amazing material. Always worth buying, however. What's the Kalaparusha disc? Don't know much about him, but generally liked the bits I've heard. Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Braxton solo in question Date: 31 Aug 2000 13:47:34 -0400 Dan Given wrote: > I didn't know that the Abrams disc was also issued -- I'll have to look at the store to see if it is there. It sounds like a typical Abrams disc -- i find almost everything he has recorded to be a bit spotty, with some dead wood mixed into lots of amazing material. Always worth buying, however. I think you're generally correct, though "Sightsong" the 1975 duo with Malachi Favors is superb virtually throughout, as is most of "Afrisong" from around the same time. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: can i drop in? Date: 31 Aug 2000 13:57:06 EDT In a message dated 8/31/00 1:24:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 gulickx@zonnet.nl writes: << I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list. At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'. Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET. =20 Am i doin=B4 allright? =20 Or am i interrupting your discussion? =20 Karel. >> You're doing just fine. Welcome!!! Best, Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: RE: Comments on Raymond Scott? Date: 31 Aug 2000 14:09:04 -0400 Manhattan Research Inc. is one of the finest releases I've heard this year. It's a fascinating historical document that shows how Scott's work ushered electronic music into commercials and popular culture. Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: oxy morons Date: 31 Aug 2000 18:42:48 GMT >Date: 30 Aug 2000 15:04:23 -0000 >From: "Tim Keenliside" >Subject: oxy morons >Intelligent??? Metal??? Am I on the right mailing list??? >Anyway, long live the Sabs! I guess this is a joke. Maybe not. Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but briefly: yes, there's a lot of silly, ridiculous stuff surounding some/much metal (part of what makes it great in some cases), and there is some downright stupid and deplorable stuff surrounding some bands. Well, this is the Zornlist, so to use a few examples, Mick Harris (Napalm Death), Dave Lombardo (Slayer), G.C. Green and Justin Broadrick (Godflesh) are some of the people on Zorn's albums -- not exactly a news flash, I know -- plus he's played with Old, Blind Idiot God... Also, SO much of Naked City is based on what bands like Napalm Death did, or with Leng Tche, the Melvins. But it's not just Zorn-connected bands. There are tons of groups who to me, beyond the initial loudness of the music, are just really much more interesting than a lot of comparable groups in the "downtown" scene, in prog rock, post-rock, etc. And while occasionally silly in their poses, a lot of these metal groups are a lot less pretentious about what they do. Culturally, I don't relate to the "metal underground" on a personal level. I certainly don't dress like a stereotypical metal fan, and it's by no means all I listen to. But bands like Soilent Green or Brutal Truth or whoever have a lot going for them, and I'm glad I got over the prejudices I once had about this kind of music. And I know a lot of people here gasp when the name Mr. Bungle pops up, and they're not really a metal band, anymore at least, but it's funny how the same people (say, indie/rock type critics) fawn over bands like the Flaming Lips or Olivia Tremor Control (nothing against them of course) yet wouldn't even give an album like "California" the time of day, just because of who they are. Trey from Mr. Bungle had a really good line about this when I was interviewing him last year: "Closed-mindedness works both ways." Maybe not exactly profound, but it bugs me when people who are supposedly "enlightened" about music so easily cast off bands or whole genres that they know nothing about. Anyway, end of rant. And I'm reeaaallllly sorry for coming across like a jerk, or acting like I'm singling someone out. Back into hybernation,, WY _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Comments on Raymond Scott? Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:05:40 EDT Don Byron's big band covers 6 Scott tunes on 'Bug Music: Music of the Raymond Scott Quintette, John Kirby & his Orchestra, and the Duke Ellington Orchetra' (Nonesuch, 1996). Fun stuff. Byron states in the liners: "In their heydays the Scott and Kirby bands were commercially successful. Scott's music was performed in movies featuring the likes of Sonja Henie and Shirley Temple. His music is the backbone of Carl Stalling's cartoons scores, instantly recognizable to at least three generations of cartoon lovers. His was the house band of the popular show, Your Hit Parade. Scott's music was entirely through-composed. This threw a lot of jazz critics off the track, though one forgets that many Ellington solos were also quite well scripted, and that the bebop era bands often performed recorded solos note-for-note at concerts." jeff caltabiano n.p. coltrane: complete '61 village vanguard, disc 2 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" Subject: Re: can i drop in? Date: 31 Aug 2000 21:15:47 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C01390.A19886C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable you're doing great.=20 now somebody please tell us about death metal covers=20 of route nationale 7 that have a klezmer clarinet sample. Stephane -----Original Message----- From: gulickx To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Date: jeudi, 31. ao=FBt 2000 18:25 Subject: can i drop in? =20 =20 I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list. At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'. Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET. =20 Am i doin=B4 allright? =20 Or am i interrupting your discussion? =20 Karel. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C01390.A19886C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
you're doing=20 great. 
now somebody please  tell us about death = metal=20 covers
of route nationale 7 = that have a=20 klezmer clarinet sample.
 
Stephane
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 gulickx <gulickx@zonnet.nl>
To: = zorn-list@lists.xmission.com= =20 <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com= >
Date:=20 jeudi, 31. août 2000 18:25
Subject: can i drop=20 in?

I´m a new member of the=20 zorn-list.
At this very moment i´m = listening to=20 'MASADA live in Middelheim'.
Two weeks ago i bought a cd from = CHARLES=20 TRENET.
 
Am i doin´ = allright?
 
Or am i interrupting your=20 discussion?
 
Karel.
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C01390.A19886C0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson Subject: Re: Braxton solo disc (was: genres) Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:40:28 +0100 Brian Olewnick wrote: > Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark, along with Muhal's THINGS > TO COME FROM THOSE NOW GONE and a Kalaparusha album. The Brax is > essential, just an amazing recording. All the more for the confidence > and conception shown by a 23-year old Braxton. along these lines, you may wish to check out the *brand new* steve lacy disc 'snips' on jazz magnet records. it's a 1976 recording documenting his first ever solo saxophone performance in the u.s. recorded in a loft in nyc, very intimate and interesting. he has this one piece called "the new york duck" which is quite self- descriptive... it in fact sheds great light on zorn's use of saxophone mouthpieces and duck calls on 'the classic guide to strategy.' a precursor to this whole phenomenon, yes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Braxton solo disc (was: genres) Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:44:48 -0400 Nils Jacobson wrote: > along these lines, you may wish to check out the *brand new* steve > lacy disc 'snips' on jazz magnet records. it's a 1976 recording > documenting his first ever solo saxophone performance in the u.s. > recorded in a loft in nyc Would that've been Environ, by any chance? (Wondering if I was there. I saw him several times solo around that time). Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson Subject: Re: Lacy solo disc (was: genres) Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:48:51 +0100 On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Brian Olewnick wrote: > Nils Jacobson wrote: > > > along these lines, you may wish to check out the *brand new* steve > > lacy disc 'snips' on jazz magnet records. it's a 1976 recording > > documenting his first ever solo saxophone performance in the u.s. > > recorded in a loft in nyc > > Would that've been Environ, by any chance? (Wondering if I was there. I > saw him several times solo around that time). yes indeed it was environ. the guy who taped it and produced it is jim eigo. a 2-disc set it is. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: can i drop in? Date: 31 Aug 2000 21:45:16 +0200 >I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list. >At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'. >Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET. Charles Trenet?? Are You really the fan of French chansons??:)))) Jerzy NP: Ivan Csudai/Martin Burlas - 9 Easy Pieces and other songs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Fw: can i drop in?/sclavis a.o. Date: 31 Aug 2000 21:55:16 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C01396.25C58E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: dekater Aan: gulickx Datum: donderdag 31 augustus 2000 20:47 Onderwerp: Re: can i drop in? -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: gulickx Aan: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Datum: donderdag 31 augustus 2000 19:24 Onderwerp: can i drop in? =20 =20 I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list. At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'. Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET. =20 Am i doin=B4 allright? =20 Or am i interrupting your discussion? =20 Karel. =20 =20 Nothing wrong with the French. This reminds me of a cd which I lost a few years ago. Someone broke = in and stole the lot. I could find (buy) back the most of them, except a = cd called 'Flamenco-Jazz' with texts of Lorca and a.o. Louis Sclavis and = Violeta Ferrer. Don't rember under whose name this appeared, nor the = label. Could someone out there help me? =20 Zorn-connection: Sclavis and Ferrer appear on the Nato-label, Zorn = also does. =20 Jan Luyben ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C01396.25C58E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Oorspronkelijk = bericht-----
Van:=20 dekater <dekater@worldonline.nl>
= Aan:=20 gulickx <gulickx@zonnet.nl>
Datum: = donderdag 31 augustus 2000 20:47
Onderwerp: Re: can i drop = in?

 
-----Oorspronkelijk=20 bericht-----
Van: gulickx <gulickx@zonnet.nl>
Aan: = zorn-list@lists.xmission.com= =20 <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com= >
Datum:=20 donderdag 31 augustus 2000 19:24
Onderwerp: can i drop = in?

I´m a new member of the=20 zorn-list.
At this very moment i´m = listening to=20 'MASADA live in Middelheim'.
Two weeks ago i bought a cd from = CHARLES=20 TRENET.
 
Am i doin´ = allright?
 
Or am i interrupting your=20 discussion?
 
Karel.
 
 
Nothing wrong with the = French.
This reminds me of a cd which I = lost a few=20 years ago. Someone broke in and stole the lot. I could find (buy) = back the=20 most of them, except a cd called 'Flamenco-Jazz' with texts of Lorca = and=20 a.o. Louis Sclavis and Violeta Ferrer. Don't rember under whose name = this=20 appeared, nor the label.
Could someone out there help=20 me?
 
Zorn-connection: Sclavis and = Ferrer appear=20 on the Nato-label, Zorn also does.
 
Jan=20 Luyben
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C01396.25C58E20-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Comments on Raymond Scott? Date: 31 Aug 2000 16:56:35 -0400 I enjoy Scott's quintet and big band work much more than his electronic. His electronic music is innovative and fascinating in it's own right, but it lacks the energy or charm of his acoustic works. Restless Nights and Turkish Twilights is constantly in my CD player. I love the intricacy of the music (especially solos). It blows my mind that it was all done in his head or on the piano and then communicated to his band, never a written note. It also angers me that Scott is rarely mentioned when cartoon music is brought up. Stalling is seemingly the only major composer of such music, but Scott did it first. Though Manhattan Research is a lot more palatable than Soothing Sounds for Baby I still prefer his six man quintet. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: delete if you don't own original spillane cd Date: 31 Aug 2000 16:25:12 -0500 (CDT) hello everyone; i've been hesitant to ask, but finially decided to as i've convinced myself that i'm morally justified. the only compact disc i've ever lost/had stolen (i.e., i have no idea what happened to it) has been zorn's 'spillane' on electra nonesuch. this is also the first zorn disc i ever heard, and remains one of my top five zorn (if not #1). however, i have never been able to replace it because (i) i kept hoping it would turn up and (ii) now the electra/nonesuch version is oop. in my mind the second track is essential to the album, so i refuse to buy spillane again if i'm not going to get the album i originally fell in love with. so, all this to provide some sort of justification to my question: is there anyone out there who could burn me a cdr copy of the original spillane disc? i have a number of privately traded live zorn discs to offer in return. once again, i swear on my not-yet-dead-mother's future grave that i bought the original (brand new even) and then lost it, so i hope no one will flame me for making this request. it's just such a good album (and the second track is great). thanks and sorry for the wasted space, whit np - meat puppets - 'up on the sun'; soon - soft boys, 'underwater moonlight'; two of the greatest rock albums ever recorded... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Schuller" Subject: added some more cd's Ribot Frith Zorn Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:03:27 PDT eBay seller name is schules In case anyone is wondering why I would want to get rid of such great music- it is because I need more equipment to make music with.... Thanks, John _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Spaans Subject: Masada Live Date: 01 Sep 2000 00:06:18 +0200 (CEST) Hi All, I have a fairly simple question and I hope someone has an answer to it. I've been looking for a Masada-tourdates-scheme on the internet for ages, but I haven't been able to find one though. And now I was hoping that someone could help me out, because seeing Masada live would make me a very, very, very happy person .... I hope ;-) Thanks, bye and regards, Leon ps. Does any of you know whether Masada ever played in The Netherlands ? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: cd writing revisited Date: 01 Sep 2000 11:31:45 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C01408.35BF5780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The only reason I ask this question here is that I vaguely remember it = asked about a year ago, and I'm sure someone here will know whether what = I ask is possible. Anyway, my question... when writing cds (using a = computer cd writer, that's what I'm using anyway) can you eliminate the = 2 second breaks between the tracks? Thanks, Julian. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C01408.35BF5780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The only reason I ask this question = here is that I=20 vaguely remember it asked about a year ago, and I'm sure someone here = will know=20 whether what I ask is possible. Anyway, my question... when writing cds = (using a=20 computer cd writer, that's what I'm using anyway) can you eliminate the = 2 second=20 breaks between the tracks?
 
Thanks,
Julian.
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C01408.35BF5780-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andreas Mohr Subject: Re: oxy morons Date: 01 Sep 2000 03:22:08 +0200 Hallo this is my first post here. my record-collection is rather small and i donīt know Eugene Chadbourne, but i think iīm doin allright. Please keep on talking about music :) > But it's not just Zorn-connected bands. There are tons of groups who to me, > beyond the initial loudness of the music, are just really much more > interesting than a lot of comparable groups in the "downtown" scene, in prog yep. and my next run-to-store will be for Carnival in Coal (and Masada live). and hello Whit : if you like rock, donīt forget and ! > And I know a lot of people here gasp when the name Mr. Bungle pops up, and Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle > Trey from Mr. Bungle had a really good line about this when I was > interviewing him last year: "Closed-mindedness works both ways." Maybe not > exactly profound, but it bugs me when people who are supposedly > "enlightened" about music so easily cast off bands or whole genres that they > know nothing about. well iīm sure a lot of people on this list _are_ enlightened about music ! but iīm also sure it really works both ways - Closed- and Open-mindedness! i had the chance to do an interview with Mike Patton during this summers Fantomas-tour, and i had read that he founded his label ipecac bcause he thought fantomas would be too strange to release it on a common label. so i asked if he couldnīt have released it on Tzadik.. hereīs what he had to say: << Oh yeah, i could have. I just donīt think it was appropriate on Tzadik. At the end of the day - Fantomas - everybody can talk about how weird it is, but itīs a fuckin rock record. Thatīs what I hear !! And I want to push it in that direction. I wanna push it to those kind of people. Not to avantgarde-experimental-jazz-weirdos. I think that those people will like the stuff and itīs no problem. I wanna put this in front of people who are unfamiliar with it. Aaeeh, I donīt know, you know like cannibal corpse fans ... I think that thereīs enough in this music that any metalhead redneck could appreciate. >> andi just started zorning :) -- Wir tanzen alle Boogie - nur nicht mit dem selben Rhythmus - Sue Anne - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: cd writing revisited Date: 31 Aug 2000 21:55:59 -0400 Hello, >Anyway, my question... when writing cds (using a computer cd writer, that's >what I'm using anyway) can you eliminate the 2 second breaks between the >tracks? You have to select the 'cd at once' option when writing the cd. It should not be so hard to find in the software you use to write. Hope it helps, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: cd writing revisited Date: 01 Sep 2000 13:03:56 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C01415.15EB8840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah sorry, it was really easy to figure out after all, it's just that I = was initially trying to find the option in my 'cd copy' software rather = than that easy cd creator. Thanks for the help! ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C01415.15EB8840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah sorry, it was = really easy to=20 figure out after all, it's just that I was initially trying to find the = option=20 in my 'cd copy' software rather than that easy cd creator. Thanks for = the=20 help! ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C01415.15EB8840-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dmitry elentuck" Subject: CD storage shelves/ The Remote Viewer on Leo Records Date: 31 Aug 2000 22:47:50 -0400 Re: recent discussion about keeping one's record/CD collection organized: I'm looking for recommendations and retail sources for a relatively sizeable (1500-2000) CD storage space, preferrably floor-standing shelves. The piles on my floor and around my stereo are getting more and more hazardous-looking. For more music-related context: The Remote Viewers. (Not to be confused with Remote Viewer, electronic duo on 555 Records, former members of Hood). I have their (debut?) CD "Low Shapes in the Dark" on Leo Records, and I find it quite wonderful. It's a trio of Adrian Northover + Louise and David Petts. Each member plays sax (sporano and alto, alto, and tenor, respectively), electronics (synth, noises), plus Louise provides occasional vocals. The CD I have features mostly originals but also covers of Sun Ra's "Astro Black", Armando Sciascia "Sogno Nostalgico -- Callan TV theme" (? any takes on this one?) and Ervin Drake's "It Was a Very Good Year". I heard some tracks off their second Leo CD (I think it's called "Obliques before Pale Skin"), and liked those even more (they actually cover Madonna's "Secret" on this one). The latest issue of the Wire has an ad for their most recent CD "Persuasive with Aliens". My question to the zornithologists is : I read somewhere that members of the Remote Viewer used to be in the band B-Shops for the Poor. Is this entity worth investigating? What sort of music did/do they play? etc. Thanks in advance. Dmitry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brandon Magee Subject: Re: Comments on Raymond Scott? Date: 31 Aug 2000 23:35:18 -0400 (EDT) &c. sleepily stated: | Restless Nights and | Turkish Twilights is constantly in my CD player. I love the intricacy of | the music (especially solos). It blows my mind that it was all done in his | head or on the piano and then communicated to his band, never a written | note. It also angers me that Scott is rarely mentioned when cartoon music | is brought up. Stalling is seemingly the only major composer of such music, | but Scott did it first. I must agree with this statement. Restless Nights is just a brilliant album (which is still in print and available at all major online record stores), and when I want that type of cartoony vibe, I would pick it over the Carl Stallings Project Vol. 1 every day of the week (I own both). However, Carl Stallings wrote for cartoons. That was his profession. Raymond Scott wrote brilliant music that happened to fit perfectly well into cartoons. There is a difference, however, Scott should be much more recognized (esp. since much of Stallings work was cribbed from the book of Scott). Talking about the Carl Stallings Project, what is the concensus on Vol.2? Is it better than Vol 1. The Same? Or just different? -Brandon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brandon Magee Subject: Re: delete if you don't own original spillane cd Date: 31 Aug 2000 23:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Whit Schonbein sleepily stated: | hello everyone; i've been hesitant to ask, but finially decided to as i've | convinced myself that i'm morally justified. the only compact disc i've | ever lost/had stolen (i.e., i have no idea what happened to it) has been | zorn's 'spillane' on electra nonesuch. this is also the first zorn disc i | ever heard, and remains one of my top five zorn (if not #1). however, i | have never been able to replace it because (i) i kept hoping it would turn | up and (ii) now the electra/nonesuch version is oop. in my mind the | second track is essential to the album, so i refuse to buy spillane again | if i'm not going to get the album i originally fell in love with. I agree. The Original Spillane on Elektra was a brilliant introduction to Zorn. The Albert Collins piece is brilliant, and is absolutely essential to any Zorn collection. And, the fact that you can tast Zorn's compisitional talent in three different genres makes Spillane the album I play to introduce people to Zorn. While I am very happy that Spillane was re-released with Blues Noel and Godard, I certainly hope that Two-Lane Highway finds itself on some collection Zorn will release sometime. (Forbidden Fruit should not be forgotten, but it is readily available on a Kronos Quartet album). -Brandon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brandon Magee Subject: Re: CD storage shelves Date: 31 Aug 2000 23:44:31 -0400 (EDT) dmitry elentuck sleepily stated: | Re: recent discussion about keeping one's record/CD collection organized: | | I'm looking for recommendations and retail sources for a relatively | sizeable (1500-2000) CD storage space, preferrably floor-standing shelves. | The piles on my floor and around my stereo are getting more and more | hazardous-looking. I personally have 3 large wooden shelves (about 6' high), which fit roughly 400 CDs each. I have found these types of shelves to be readily available in my neck of the woods, and I find that they work well. Certainly far better than keeping them in stacks on the floor. Of course, I will soon need to buy another one. The life of a music fan! -Brandon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: For Alto Date: 01 Sep 2000 06:35:34 +0200 Hio Philozorners, > Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark I have to get it! Zorn said in the interview with William Duckworth, that this album "blown him away", "He [Braxton] had the energy I was looking for". It was one of Zorn's first jazz records, which turned him to sax and free-jazz... I'm under big influence of Jazz Composer's Orchestra with Taylor, and the re-issued "Ascension" by Coltrane. As Zorn said, the first is more "structured", and therefore more interesting in long listening. The "blowing" quality of "Ascension" is incredible though. __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl NP: Spaceways "Solid Krell Metal" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: For Alto Date: 31 Aug 2000 00:42:16 +0100 --------------ABD792125FDCBD3F033CC5FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Artur Nowak wrote: > Hio Philozorners, > > > Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark > > I have to get it! Zorn said in the interview with William Duckworth, > that this album "blown him away", "He [Braxton] had the energy I was > looking for". It was one of Zorn's first jazz records, which turned > him to sax and free-jazz... > Perhaps a stupid question--actually two--but was For Alto originally released on Delmark? And how long has the album been out of print? Thanks. --Mike --------------ABD792125FDCBD3F033CC5FB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Artur Nowak wrote:

Hio Philozorners,

> Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark

I have to get it! Zorn said in the interview with William Duckworth,
that this album "blown him away", "He [Braxton] had the energy I was
looking for". It was one of Zorn's first jazz records, which turned
him to sax and free-jazz...
 

Perhaps a stupid question--actually two--but was For Alto originally released on Delmark?  And how long has the album been out of print?

Thanks.

--Mike --------------ABD792125FDCBD3F033CC5FB-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: User384726@aol.com Subject: George Russell Date: 01 Sep 2000 01:06:21 EDT In the last six months or so I have purchased George Russell's "Jazz in the Space Age," "Ezz-thetics," and Stratus Seekers. I have been completely blown away by all of them. GR has the composition and arranging skills of a true master. "Ezz-thetics," featuring Dolphy, David Baker, Don Ellis and Stephen Swallow (on upright), should be in every musician's collection. The Dolphy solo on the title cut is one of his best ever. GR music from these albums appear to be culmination of everything that was happening in Jazz. I have yet to be disappointed by any GR CD from this period (late 50's early 60's) and I was wondering if anyone had anymore recommendations for GR CD's. I also was completely blown away by Baker's playing throughout this music so any recommendations of his music would also be appreciated. I also was able to check out the Lydian Chromatic Concept book from a local library but is missing some sheet. If anyone knows were to get a new copy of this, I believe there are multiple editions, I would also appreciate that. Thanks to All, Aaron Solomon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmilianGatzov Subject: Looking to trade 11 CDs Date: 01 Sep 2000 01:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Apologies for the crosspost. I=92m looking to recycle these 11 cds.I will = entertain various types of trade offers, just email me if you=92re interest= ed. Emilian =8C Eliott Sharp & Carbon =96 Larynx (on SST) =8C Praxis =96 Sacrifist [w/Zorn/Buckethead/Blind Idiot God/Harris/Eye etc= (on Subharmonic)] =8C Kiodyssea =96 Migrations (on Art Gallery)=20 =8C Peter Scherer =96 Very Neon Pet [w/F. Genius/ Parkins/Lindsay/Baptista= /Vasconcelos/ Deyhim etc(on Metro Blue)] =8C Robert Musso =96 Absolute Music (on MUworks)=20 =8C Frigg =96 Brecht (on Knitting Factory) produced by Eliott Sharp =8C Clusone Trio =96 I Am An Indian (on Gramavision/Ryko) =8C Hafler Trio =96 A Thirsty Fish (on The Grey Area of Mute) =8C Aziza Mustafa Zadeh =96 Seventh Truth (on Sony) =8C Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan & Party =96 Shahen-Shah (on RealWorld) =8C John Surman Quartet =96 Stranger than Fiction (on ECM) ______________________________________________________________ FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com -